Not sure if it's been done before but how about doing a "how to" on retro-fitting a loco with proper bearings? That would make for interesting viewing.
Picked one of these up for £50, replaced the motor with a 5 pole kept the fly wheel, she has been used on 2 exhibition layouts with no issues, easily holds her own against more modern models
The ones from the later sets came with a 5 pole motor with a flywheel and the buffers, whilst not sprung, were metal and they had glazed cab windows which the early railroad ones don't.
Very entertaining review of an older model. How very neatly you keep your stock. As for those who claim bearings are superfluous, i guess they have lost their bearings! Thanks Sam for another high quality entertaining video.
You’d be surprised just how much a real steam locomotive shakes when it’s working hard, there’s a video of Reading and Northern 2102 with a tonnage passenger train, just highballing down the track and you can actually see the ground oscillating through the cab window. Highly recommend it (especially with headphones on max volume, the sound is awesome)
I ran this loco with TTS on my exhibition layout 45C Westlands and no problems occurred over an intensive running schedule during 2015-19 that the layout was active
I think I bought mine in a set with three coaches for £110. I only bought it because my dad had been in the drawing office on the design team of the Duke of Gloucester involved with the braking system. I think it was the last job he did directly for British Railways before leaving.
Poor steaming of 71000 because apparently Swindon ignored Riddles’s brief and used standard GWR blast pipe components instead. This was discovered when the restorers rebuilt it! So this is prototypical because Hornby saved money building it just as Swindon did ! Quite ironic really 😂 If the finish bothers you, just mask off the black bits and give it a spray of semi-gloss varnish. Back in the good old days, Crownline would’ve produced a detailing kit. That was the fun of railway modeling back in the ‘80’s, super detailing basic models to make them your own. Even the humble R52 Jinty looks great tarted up with real handrails and a new paint job. If you were really finicky you’d fit Romford wheels and a five pole motor. I’d rather buy a basic model if the overall dimensions are correct and improve it. Doesn’t anyone do this anymore? Sorry if I sound like an old git, but I just turned 60, so I don’t care. If I can pick it up for under £100 I’d be happy (I run DC) it would provide me with hours of fun improving it. All the best Sam. Rob.
I purchased one only a month ago at £120 on eBay, and a very nice model, even by todays standards...the TTS is rather dated in functions but does the job for me anyway, as use it on my TMD diesel layout, as a visiting loco...lovely model..
Yess, I was looking forward for a review for this. I bought this from Hattons second hand but it was brand new, didn’t seem like it was ran at all, and a bargain price as well; and I absolutely love it. Although this scored low on the ratings, doesn’t stop me from loving the loco, and watching your reviews, keep up the fantastic work.
This loco was my 1st loco i brought from Ebay (my 2nd 00 loco overall) and the 1st review i watched from u (and im here ever since). Had no 00 rolling-stiock back than just my H0+H0e collection, and up to 2020 (BRexit) my 00 collection almost caught up in size with my H0 fleet, but sadly that was the end; of me buying 00 stuff online, and no retailer has 00 stuff in the EU.
Genuine question, you always mention how great accessories are and how it adds value to a model, yet in 8/9 years of ownership the accessories are still in their bag unfitted, why do you seemingly never fit the accessories to your models? I can understand some of the buffer detail being left off due to potential issues, but brake rigging and the etched nameplates would be items that would improve the look IMO. As I say, genuine question and not a criticism.
@@Ianshandle999 a small dab of pva will ensure they don’t (assuming you mean the brake rigging) for the name plates a tiny dot of medium CA will be sufficient, although pva may also be enough. I’ve personally never had anything fall off they I’ve put on a model though. If they couldn’t be fitted without them falling off, then it calls into question if they are indeed a good inclusion to the model and we would be better off without the additional cost of the items!
@@alanharris2799I believe this was asked during a live Q&A a while back, basically he likes to keep them in the packet so he doesn’t lose them and keeps the model as close to as new (or something like that, it did make sense, not that I agree) I believe there was a suggestion of enough people requested it he would add it to his reviews about how easy they are to fit, which personally I think would be a great idea as some models have loads of accessories that are awful to try and fit
@@lukejackson8741 each to their own I guess :) I think they look better on the model than in the bag, especially etched nameplates as they really elevate the loco IMO. I’ve built scale models since I was very young, and use a load of photo-etch detail parts in my builds now so little parts don’t phase me, but I can understand some people might be intimidated or maybe have dexterity issues and are worried they will ruin it.
Great review- DoG is one of my favorite locos- love the history Really feel there is a place for a top drawer model of this great machine One consideration of its marketability is that you can (realistically) run it on a modern image layout- so potentially of interest to a broader range of modelers I see hornby are going to release a prototype Deltic- for twice the price of Accurascale Deltic (there's a Sams Trains comparison review id pay to see! 😄) and long with Turbomotive it shows there is an interest in unique engines
Your physical weathering wagon arrived a couple days ago (busy moving, so ive only just had time to examine it) and i am blown away. Youve dine a ruddy good job on that one Sam! Gonna have to make a little abandoned siding for it!
I have to say Sam, I’m generally big on the new stuff, but I do love these rereviews and sort of “flashbacks” to some less recent models Especially the rivarossi Royal Scot, loved that one
40:17 maybe you could look at making a 3D printed insert for the axles and enlarge the existing holes to fit in the 3D printed bearings? You could make the bearing a slot over item so that if they wear out you can simply print another and replace. You’d be able to make it into a rounded hole too which would greatly improve things.
Hi. Did the old Hornby Dublo 3 rail or wrenn have bearings? I don’t think so. Did they also sit in square slots? Not a scooby. They, I’m sure ran for ever (it seemed). What do you think?
If this tooling is 10 years old that means it was designed during the design clever period of Hornby. It's sad to see the company's finances aren't better after all these years... Hopefully TT:120 will have the desired effect and not just another item to add to the ever growing list of bad Hornby decisions. 😔
That's right - design clever wasn't as clever as they thought it was sadly! I think TT is great, I hope it goes well for them! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This locomotive is bad, glad I never got one, and I think TT will go the way off The Tri-ang TT. And if Hornby doesn’t change they sadly will go the way of Tri-ang and will just become another name, for another railway Company.
I was hoping to see this review from your channel! I just got this loco like-new for around the price you paid. The previous owner took great care of it and I hope it is a good decision as my first OO locomotive
Hi Sam, to clarify it wasn't modified, the firebox grate inlet dampers were not made correct to the drawing, so it was actually corrected. There were speculations that the engine was sabotaged to prevent an efficient steam engine from financially justifying extention of mainline steam by the bigwigs.
A very good review Sam for which thank you. It seems that this loco is neither "fish nor fowl" however its lack of longevity is unforgivable, e.g. having to take the trailing bogie off to get it round second radius curves is, frankly, bonkers! I've got Tri-Ang locos from the '60s that don't require that. Thanks again Sam because my budget is limited therefore I cannot risk this Duke of Glos. or the new Black 5. I'm saving my money for something that actually works.
5 stars for it's sound performance. Through a house stereo from a pc it sounded great. It would make a good candidate for reconstruction i.e print or gel a better chassis or whatever's required to get rid of the square axle carrier, you have to wonder where their heads were at.
You are right. This is a Railroad. I remember when it came out and it was a massive step backwards compared to the very similar Britannia. The pipework was picked out on that and they look great. This had that huge lump of black plastic under the cab. Also you are right in that it looks toy like, not a model.
I am not a lover of Hornby but I was surprised by this loco. I found the livery to be a fairly realistic colour and the apparent gap in the boiler band lining IS correct. There are clearly improvements that could be made that you referred to but you omitted the ridiculous height difference between cab and tender floors. Interestingly, the sound is actually at a level that is realistic - steam engines are not quiet!
Great review Sam and please do more, how it’s worn and aged is of massive interest, and seeing your collection I’d say make going over your back catalogue of well used models a good idea. New reviews are one thing but the true tell of any product is time. That axle wear is really bad and you are right to call it out especially on a heavy model. Keep up the great consumer work.
I find that over the years I have learned that storing heavy locomotives sitting on the wheels is a bad idea for steam engines with spoked plastic inserts. The inserts end up going off center to the axel because of the constant weight on them similar to the tires on your car getting a flat spot when parked for an extended period of time. I don’t know if this locomotive has plastic inserts or not but if it does you should store it top down only because on the side has its own set of wobbling problems. I do suspect that this loco does have plastic inserts because your loco is hopping and wobbling, oh my. The only way to fix it at this late stage is to replace the drive wheels and axels, sorry. Your assessment of the locomotive was on point as always and I do enjoy these segments so keep up the good work. Great video, Jersey Bill
Thanks a lot for this - that's very interesting and not something I've thought about before! Yeah this one does have the plastic inserts, I'll have to measure and see if they're still centred! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
If Mr. Riddles had gone back to the PRR K-4,and the NYC Hudsons,as well as the Lima Berkshires,the Class 8's would have been multiplied! The use of a 125% percent boiler,could have been a real game changer! As it was,a near miss! The amateurs who corrected the professional's mistakes,says much of the deterioration of the world in general! Thanks Sam,for another piece of educational experience! Thank you 😇 😊!
There's a suspicion there might have been Skullduggery in the failure of the Class 8. The steam inlet pipes into the cylinders were bored too small - not exactly an easy mistake to make, or to miss! As the story goes, certain figures in British Rail management were dead-set on dieselisation and didn't want an embarrassing modern steam engine outperforming their new toys. No way to prove it either way, of course, but a fun railwayman's tall tale.
Recently, I've been looking at Mote british locos, and i find it interesting how different US engines are different compared to engines in the UK. But what's more interesting is how, if you look close to enougj, you can see details that are similar, that have that familiar steam locomotive look that every steam locomotive from every country has.
Blimey! Old timers had to fashion their own mechanisms, including bearings which used to be available for scratch builders. You might want to add details on this one and make it a showpiece, which is all it could be used for.
28:20 would love to know how you fitted a new motor and flywheels as my Hornby design clever Tornados motor has failed and I'm not so sure how to go about replacing... many thanks :)
This would be an amazing Railroad model, all it needs are bearings and a 5 pole motor and it would be ready. It would make sense for Hornby to make a proper super-detailed version as well, considering they've got other experimental locos in the range (Hush-Hush, Turbomotive), it would fit in really nicely.
Glad this sole member of this class was preserved. I’m surprised it was a poor runner in its early days, but modified to be a better runner. God bless the preservation society that bought it.
Sound volume? You mentioned you could turn the volume down on the TTS sound decoder. I have a Lord Nelson with TTS sound which has the same (loud) volume. But I have never been able to reset any CV to get it quieter. Like you, I run it without sound as it’s just to loud…drowns out other locos, all of which I have managed to turn the volume CV down. Which CV would you have reset to get your volume down? Thanks
'At most you'll be buying one of these.' Ah, but what if someone is crazy and creates an alternate universe where B.R. built 25 or 50 Standard Class 8s? There are certainly enough ducal names to choose from!
Something I find crazy is that the Princess Royal that the Duke of Gloucester was the rebuilt Turbomotive. A one-off engine succeeded by another one-off engine.
Though at the time of the accident, it had already been rebuilt as a conventional locomotive. The Duke became the sole loco of its class by a set of circumstances: it didn't seem to perform as expected (it does now!); and the decision of BR to move to diesel and electric traction.
Enjoyable "retro" video. Can I suggest you improve the model by fitting brass bearings on the axles. I'm guessing you could work out a way of doing it. As for the sound chip, I quite liked the TTS chips, great value but they do need a decent 8ohm speaker. Pretty easy to adjust volume levels on it till you get it to your liking. Should make an interesting video. Also pretty easy to add a stay alive especially on the MK2 version of the chip.
weird thing, the "three foot test" means the painted on handrails etc are not as important as the actual painted finish which when its moving you will notice and then of course it has to actually work... with the mechanism stuff you do have to wonder what the difference in manufacturing cost is for stuff like square cut outs v rounded ones or actual bearings. I suspect its not a huge per unit cost and actually adding that extra cost directly to the sale price maybe wouldn't be noticed really - maybe its to get it under a 'magic' price point
A good video here Sam, I have one of these myself, the only difference mine has is it doesn’t have sound in it right now, I might look at that though as the Hornby HM7000 has a sound profile for this loco, another difference on mine is I have fitted the accessories to it, I won’t deny that it would be nice to see it retooled but right now I’m not really wanting to get another one, the one I have right now is perfect and as I say I might look at fitting sound to mine at some point in the future.
I can only assume because the prototype has been out of the public consciousness for quite a few years as it’s been rebuilt. As it’s launch is getting closer they may reintroduce to the range
I love the weird and wonderful and sometimes prototypical locomotives like Gloucester, Turbomotive, Hush Hush etc. Always prefer something special to the more run-of-the-mill mass market models.
Hello Sam how are you? I’ve been looking to get one of these models and managed to find one that’s in almost new condition though I would want to make the same motor modifications. If you don’t mind me asking, what kind of five-pole miter is that you used in it? Hope you have a good day God bless
In jest: I don't recall hearing about traction tires on this model, so it can't be a railroad plus, or at least, if they were to put it there, they'd need to put the work in to add them.
The wear of that axle seems very interesting. Having it run let's say for 1 hour every few months, in 10 years I don't think it would have so high mileage. If you can find replacement parts I think that you should replace either just the axle , either both the axle and the wheels. Also , improvizing some bearings I think it would be helpful.
Funny Story Sam. I do actually have the railroad version of this, although it's largely the same the only difference is it's not as much detailed as the railways one. Cheers Jasper & Willow
@@SamsTrains I believe the railroad and ones in sets don't have tender pick ups whilst the sound fitted ones do which makes them more reliable runners over points, diamond crossings, etc.
@@jibbsey Reminds me of Thames Water, loads of money going to the shareholders so there’s not much money left to invest in new products and stop relying of 30/40/50 year old mouldings that are repurposed to trick customers who don’t know what they’re getting unless they do their research.
I thought this was a decent model, it was 'value engineered' in the design clever era but it captured the look of the DoG well. The problem was trying to place it in the main range, as a Railroad+ model and with Railroad+ pricing it'd be ideal. Yes it lost details and finery, but on a layout it looks fine. In some ways I'd like to see more such releases but the market spoke and the demand is for high end releases.
Looking at the comments on TT120, I'm old enough to remember the discussions back in 1968 concerning whether, with modernisation, steam outline models would still have a market. We know the answer concerning that, but I do find myself wondering whether TT120 should have, at least initially, gone with modern outline, after all the objective in part was stated to be keeping the hobby relevant to a new generation.
I purchased one of these for my collection about two years ago, and mine appears to have worn the same way that yours has such that is wobbles and stutters. While I think your detail score is a little bit harsh, I generally agree with just about every other point that you made. I started planning a video for my channel covering models that need an upgrade, and this was going to be on the list. Since you covered it here is more detail than I ever could, I'm likely going to find another engine to cover and use this as an honorable mention. One interesting bit about the history of the real locomotive, is that the enthusiasts that restored and modified it in the seventies made the modifications that they did because they found Robert Riddles' original drawings for it. The builders actually made some changes behind Riddles' back when the loco was under construction, and these changes that were made to cut cost were to blame for its poor performance in service. The enthusiasts' modifications were to rebuild it to Riddles' original specification. More recently, Hornby made a Black 5 with Caprotti Valve Gear (a variant from the late 40s with about 18 built in total), and they really nailed the gear on that one.
I bought this model for 120.00 from an exhibition in spring and thought it isn't going to be amazing for the price but id give it a go and i ended up sticking it on ebay a few weeks later 😂like you mentioned it wasn't in railroad packaging so i was expecting a half decent looking model but even some of hornbys steam locos from the 90s looked better in my opinion, the sound is awful and most importantly the running quality was awful after seeing you take a look at the mechanism and how yours has suffered from wear i can only imagine the one i bought must have been suffering from the same problem, very interesting video, keep up the good work. Tom
I suppose if you knew what you were doing you could add bearings to the axles and that would improve the running. Also I suppose you could upgrade the chip and the speaker too but it depends how much you want to pay. I think I'll stick with older models.
Hi Sam. Interesting video. I have got a normal Hornby railways version of the Duke. A special addition version to tell the truth. Definitely not a railroad version. I can confirm the loco I have has no electronic connection on it. The DCC socket is in the loco on mine. When I purchased it I thought excellent a Duke surly Hornby must have done the expensive version to the same quality as their Britannia. But as you showed absolutely not. The only way I can suggest you can get away with the details being limited is to weather it quite heavily as luck would have it the loco was not.very well liked in BR days. It looked very uncared for indeed in service. As you touched on Hornby did this on the cheap and it shows. The same is the case on the first P2 they did around the same time. The thing which really puzzles me is why they put massive amounts of weight in it when they fail to do that in a big scale on their detailed 200 pound models. Ridiculous really. But as a result mine can pull a large train but I sometimes wonder how long it will do that for. An interesting study if anything else. Much appreciated
Long term subscriber. Personally, im not a fan of re-reviewing items. Even if it was several years ago. The whole fun of videos for me is going on the journey with you, experiencing things for the 1st time. Just some feedback for what its worth.
I think you gotta interpret this model like the real estate market. Do you prefer the best house on the worst street or the worst house on the best street
Would rounded slots for the wheel axles cause more friction between slot and axle? The square slot minimises actual surface area contact, does it not? I'm thinking. But as you say, good machined bearings are best. Interesting engine and quite handsome looking. But Hornby, they do try, I suppose. 👍
re-review with view of highinsight of doing this review thing for a while. i am quite pleased to see these pop up every once in a while because i do believe in the comment mr. Sam's trains says in begining of these secondary reviews - a lot can change and better means he now has should give better results.
I think it's the wobble causing it to dip down in conjunction with tight radius curves therefore causing rear pony wheel to snag the side of the rail. It's a shame that they chose it to be a fixed rear pony truck with blind wheel flanges adding to the problem of derailing.
Hi Sam. The Duke is an enigmatic loco, both in model and prototypical form. Your observations on Hornby's market positioning of the model are spot on. It was very curious: it was crying out to be a full-fat mega detailed special. But they went for the totally opposite approach. I like The Duke - especially in "as preserved" livery - but I have examples of the GWR heavy tank engines you referred to, and I do not wish to own any more "Design Clever" models. I'll wait and hope for a new-tooled version - from Dapol - perhaps? Did you know the wrecked Stanier Pacific (Princess Anne), which The Duke was built to replace, started life as the Turbomotive? Also, I'm sure I climbed all over it as a small boy when it was languishing at Barry Scrapyard! I usually comment that I find your ratings a little harsh, but on this occasion, your 6.93 "E" is rather generous. I enjoy your "Reviews Revisited" episodes.
Evemodels (of Aliexpress infamy) have started producing their own Locomotives; are these something you might consider for review? They produce several diesel shunters, an 0-4-0 steamer, and some sort of Diesel loco for transport (I believe, i'm not familiar with non-Steam loco's)
They’re quite reasonable on the second hand market, quite a few are sold for under £100 and considering that it’s a preserved locomotive that’s very good, back in 2022 I got my one for I think £120, it’s still a good model for me and I have no issues to report and currently I’m thinking of fitting one of hornbys HM7000 sound decoders to mine.
I believe a lot of the railway locos from the early 2010s are now in the railroad range, like the old P2, I don’t think this has any place in the current railroad range and nor would I expect it to, so maybe abit harsh to judge it against modern railways oppose to modern railroad
Not sure if it's been done before but how about doing a "how to" on retro-fitting a loco with proper bearings? That would make for interesting viewing.
Me too please, I have several models that would benefit from proper bearings.
Picked one of these up for £50, replaced the motor with a 5 pole kept the fly wheel, she has been used on 2 exhibition layouts with no issues, easily holds her own against more modern models
I replaced the motor with a five pole and fitted extras including sprung buffers love it and it runs perfectly!
What motor would you suggest?
@@paulshepherd9999Also curious what motor is suggested
The ones from the later sets came with a 5 pole motor with a flywheel and the buffers, whilst not sprung, were metal and they had glazed cab windows which the early railroad ones don't.
Very entertaining review of an older model.
How very neatly you keep your stock.
As for those who claim bearings are superfluous, i guess they have lost their bearings!
Thanks Sam for another high quality entertaining video.
You’d be surprised just how much a real steam locomotive shakes when it’s working hard, there’s a video of Reading and Northern 2102 with a tonnage passenger train, just highballing down the track and you can actually see the ground oscillating through the cab window. Highly recommend it (especially with headphones on max volume, the sound is awesome)
I ran this loco with TTS on my exhibition layout 45C Westlands and no problems occurred over an intensive running schedule during 2015-19 that the layout was active
This explains to me why there are so many retro-fit chassis available for ready to run locomotives in British outline.
It would be so cool to see a manufacturer model working caprotti valve gear. Great video Sam
I think I bought mine in a set with three coaches for £110. I only bought it because my dad had been in the drawing office on the design team of the Duke of Gloucester involved with the braking system. I think it was the last job he did directly for British Railways before leaving.
Poor steaming of 71000 because apparently Swindon ignored Riddles’s brief and used standard GWR blast pipe components instead. This was discovered when the restorers rebuilt it! So this is prototypical because Hornby saved money building it just as Swindon did !
Quite ironic really 😂
If the finish bothers you, just mask off the black bits and give it a spray of semi-gloss varnish.
Back in the good old days, Crownline would’ve produced a detailing kit. That was the fun of railway modeling back in the ‘80’s, super detailing basic models to make them your own. Even the humble R52 Jinty looks great tarted up with real handrails and a new paint job. If you were really finicky you’d fit Romford wheels and a five pole motor. I’d rather buy a basic model if the overall dimensions are correct and improve it. Doesn’t anyone do this anymore? Sorry if I sound like an old git, but I just turned 60, so I don’t care. If I can pick it up for under £100 I’d be happy (I run DC) it would provide me with hours of fun improving it.
All the best Sam. Rob.
I purchased one only a month ago at £120 on eBay, and a very nice model, even by todays standards...the TTS is rather dated in functions but does the job for me anyway, as use it on my TMD diesel layout, as a visiting loco...lovely model..
Yess, I was looking forward for a review for this. I bought this from Hattons second hand but it was brand new, didn’t seem like it was ran at all, and a bargain price as well; and I absolutely love it. Although this scored low on the ratings, doesn’t stop me from loving the loco, and watching your reviews, keep up the fantastic work.
This loco was my 1st loco i brought from Ebay (my 2nd 00 loco overall) and the 1st review i watched from u (and im here ever since). Had no 00 rolling-stiock back than just my H0+H0e collection, and up to 2020 (BRexit) my 00 collection almost caught up in size with my H0 fleet, but sadly that was the end; of me buying 00 stuff online, and no retailer has 00 stuff in the EU.
Genuine question, you always mention how great accessories are and how it adds value to a model, yet in 8/9 years of ownership the accessories are still in their bag unfitted, why do you seemingly never fit the accessories to your models? I can understand some of the buffer detail being left off due to potential issues, but brake rigging and the etched nameplates would be items that would improve the look IMO. As I say, genuine question and not a criticism.
They fall off and get lost?
@@Ianshandle999 a small dab of pva will ensure they don’t (assuming you mean the brake rigging) for the name plates a tiny dot of medium CA will be sufficient, although pva may also be enough. I’ve personally never had anything fall off they I’ve put on a model though. If they couldn’t be fitted without them falling off, then it calls into question if they are indeed a good inclusion to the model and we would be better off without the additional cost of the items!
@@alanharris2799I believe this was asked during a live Q&A a while back, basically he likes to keep them in the packet so he doesn’t lose them and keeps the model as close to as new (or something like that, it did make sense, not that I agree)
I believe there was a suggestion of enough people requested it he would add it to his reviews about how easy they are to fit, which personally I think would be a great idea as some models have loads of accessories that are awful to try and fit
@@lukejackson8741 each to their own I guess :) I think they look better on the model than in the bag, especially etched nameplates as they really elevate the loco IMO.
I’ve built scale models since I was very young, and use a load of photo-etch detail parts in my builds now so little parts don’t phase me, but I can understand some people might be intimidated or maybe have dexterity issues and are worried they will ruin it.
@@alanharris2799 yeah I’d like to fit mine but I understand when he does his testing on 2nd radius a lot so probably catch depending on the model
Great review- DoG is one of my favorite locos- love the history
Really feel there is a place for a top drawer model of this great machine
One consideration of its marketability is that you can (realistically) run it on a modern image layout- so potentially of interest to a broader range of modelers
I see hornby are going to release a prototype Deltic- for twice the price of Accurascale Deltic (there's a Sams Trains comparison review id pay to see! 😄) and long with Turbomotive it shows there is an interest in unique engines
Hi Sam love the vids keep up the good work 🙂
Your physical weathering wagon arrived a couple days ago (busy moving, so ive only just had time to examine it) and i am blown away. Youve dine a ruddy good job on that one Sam! Gonna have to make a little abandoned siding for it!
I have to say Sam, I’m generally big on the new stuff, but I do love these rereviews and sort of “flashbacks” to some less recent models
Especially the rivarossi Royal Scot, loved that one
Awesome video Sam
Still love mine.
Great model, great price.
40:17 maybe you could look at making a 3D printed insert for the axles and enlarge the existing holes to fit in the 3D printed bearings? You could make the bearing a slot over item so that if they wear out you can simply print another and replace. You’d be able to make it into a rounded hole too which would greatly improve things.
Came to the comments to say this as well.
Hi. Did the old Hornby Dublo 3 rail or wrenn have bearings? I don’t think so. Did they also sit in square slots? Not a scooby. They, I’m sure ran for ever (it seemed). What do you think?
If this tooling is 10 years old that means it was designed during the design clever period of Hornby. It's sad to see the company's finances aren't better after all these years... Hopefully TT:120 will have the desired effect and not just another item to add to the ever growing list of bad Hornby decisions. 😔
That's right - design clever wasn't as clever as they thought it was sadly! I think TT is great, I hope it goes well for them!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This locomotive is bad, glad I never got one, and I think TT will go the way off The Tri-ang TT. And if Hornby doesn’t change they sadly will go the way of Tri-ang and will just become another name, for another railway Company.
@nicolasfriswell1668 what company would that be?
According to some article by Proactive, Hornby PLC saw its year on year profits go up 10% April-August......
I was hoping to see this review from your channel! I just got this loco like-new for around the price you paid. The previous owner took great care of it and I hope it is a good decision as my first OO locomotive
Awesome video today Sam that was wobbling like mad lol
Hi Sam, to clarify it wasn't modified, the firebox grate inlet dampers were not made correct to the drawing, so it was actually corrected. There were speculations that the engine was sabotaged to prevent an efficient steam engine from financially justifying extention of mainline steam by the bigwigs.
A very good review Sam for which thank you. It seems that this loco is neither "fish nor fowl" however its lack of longevity is unforgivable, e.g. having to take the trailing bogie off to get it round second radius curves is, frankly, bonkers! I've got Tri-Ang locos from the '60s that don't require that. Thanks again Sam because my budget is limited therefore I cannot risk this Duke of Glos. or the new Black 5. I'm saving my money for something that actually works.
5 stars for it's sound performance. Through a house stereo from a pc it sounded great. It would make a good candidate for reconstruction i.e print or gel a better chassis or whatever's required to get rid of the square axle carrier, you have to wonder where their heads were at.
You are right. This is a Railroad. I remember when it came out and it was a massive step backwards compared to the very similar Britannia. The pipework was picked out on that and they look great. This had that huge lump of black plastic under the cab.
Also you are right in that it looks toy like, not a model.
I am not a lover of Hornby but I was surprised by this loco. I found the livery to be a fairly realistic colour and the apparent gap in the boiler band lining IS correct. There are clearly improvements that could be made that you referred to but you omitted the ridiculous height difference between cab and tender floors. Interestingly, the sound is actually at a level that is realistic - steam engines are not quiet!
Fantastic video as always 👍😊🤩😎😁
Great review Sam and please do more, how it’s worn and aged is of massive interest, and seeing your collection I’d say make going over your back catalogue of well used models a good idea. New reviews are one thing but the true tell of any product is time. That axle wear is really bad and you are right to call it out especially on a heavy model. Keep up the great consumer work.
You're my favourite youtuber ever sam!
That's so lovely Jack, thank you mate!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I find that over the years I have learned that storing heavy locomotives sitting on the wheels is a bad idea for steam engines with spoked plastic inserts. The inserts end up going off center to the axel because of the constant weight on them similar to the tires on your car getting a flat spot when parked for an extended period of time. I don’t know if this locomotive has plastic inserts or not but if it does you should store it top down only because on the side has its own set of wobbling problems. I do suspect that this loco does have plastic inserts because your loco is hopping and wobbling, oh my. The only way to fix it at this late stage is to replace the drive wheels and axels, sorry.
Your assessment of the locomotive was on point as always and I do enjoy these segments so keep up the good work. Great video, Jersey Bill
Thanks a lot for this - that's very interesting and not something I've thought about before! Yeah this one does have the plastic inserts, I'll have to measure and see if they're still centred!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Excellent presentation. Its easy enough to fit brass bearings.
I don’t even own a model train (yet), but I thoroughly enjoy your content Sam.
If Mr. Riddles had gone back to the PRR K-4,and the NYC Hudsons,as well as the Lima Berkshires,the Class 8's would have been multiplied! The use of a 125% percent boiler,could have been a real game changer! As it was,a near miss! The amateurs who corrected the professional's mistakes,says much of the deterioration of the world in general! Thanks Sam,for another piece of educational experience! Thank you 😇 😊!
There's a suspicion there might have been Skullduggery in the failure of the Class 8. The steam inlet pipes into the cylinders were bored too small - not exactly an easy mistake to make, or to miss! As the story goes, certain figures in British Rail management were dead-set on dieselisation and didn't want an embarrassing modern steam engine outperforming their new toys. No way to prove it either way, of course, but a fun railwayman's tall tale.
I had one of these along with the twin black 5 set that hauled the 15 guinea special and had an 8 coach set that mimicked that train
00:00:14 - 00:00:15 - Shapes music.
Recently, I've been looking at Mote british locos, and i find it interesting how different US engines are different compared to engines in the UK. But what's more interesting is how, if you look close to enougj, you can see details that are similar, that have that familiar steam locomotive look that every steam locomotive from every country has.
Blimey! Old timers had to fashion their own mechanisms, including bearings which used to be available for scratch builders. You might want to add details on this one and make it a showpiece, which is all it could be used for.
Guess we’re from the same generation. 100% with you on that …
28:20 would love to know how you fitted a new motor and flywheels as my Hornby design clever Tornados motor has failed and I'm not so sure how to go about replacing...
many thanks :)
This would be an amazing Railroad model, all it needs are bearings and a 5 pole motor and it would be ready. It would make sense for Hornby to make a proper super-detailed version as well, considering they've got other experimental locos in the range (Hush-Hush, Turbomotive), it would fit in really nicely.
Having seen this review & knowing that I have one of this in a trainpack, I think its very possible I might well get rid of the pack & cut my losses
Glad this sole member of this class was preserved. I’m surprised it was a poor runner in its early days, but modified to be a better runner. God bless the preservation society that bought it.
Only a matter of time before sam covers Skarloey in an 009 video
I hope he likes the die cast body, I recon he’ll be surprised by that
Sound volume? You mentioned you could turn the volume down on the TTS sound decoder. I have a Lord Nelson with TTS sound which has the same (loud) volume. But I have never been able to reset any CV to get it quieter. Like you, I run it without sound as it’s just to loud…drowns out other locos, all of which I have managed to turn the volume CV down. Which CV would you have reset to get your volume down?
Thanks
oh WOW sam i have that Same Model and i Really Like it with Sound And i Added a Firebox Light inside the Cab Great Work Sam... Hope your Well?
'At most you'll be buying one of these.' Ah, but what if someone is crazy and creates an alternate universe where B.R. built 25 or 50 Standard Class 8s? There are certainly enough ducal names to choose from!
Something I find crazy is that the Princess Royal that the Duke of Gloucester was the rebuilt Turbomotive. A one-off engine succeeded by another one-off engine.
That is a bizarre coincidence that if it happened in a novel everyone would say how unrealistic that is
Though at the time of the accident, it had already been rebuilt as a conventional locomotive. The Duke became the sole loco of its class by a set of circumstances: it didn't seem to perform as expected (it does now!); and the decision of BR to move to diesel and electric traction.
If it Would then it Would be a miracle
12:05 I guess that's the Harrow and Wealdstone rail crash then?
You know what makes me happy? The "Sam'sTrains new video uploaded" notifications!
(oh and the fact that I bought a new car yesterday :P )
Great review sam
Thanks Justin!
Enjoyable "retro" video. Can I suggest you improve the model by fitting brass bearings on the axles. I'm guessing you could work out a way of doing it. As for the sound chip, I quite liked the TTS chips, great value but they do need a decent 8ohm speaker. Pretty easy to adjust volume levels on it till you get it to your liking. Should make an interesting video. Also pretty easy to add a stay alive especially on the MK2 version of the chip.
weird thing, the "three foot test" means the painted on handrails etc are not as important as the actual painted finish which when its moving you will notice
and then of course it has to actually work...
with the mechanism stuff you do have to wonder what the difference in manufacturing cost is for stuff like square cut outs v rounded ones or actual bearings. I suspect its not a huge per unit cost and actually adding that extra cost directly to the sale price maybe wouldn't be noticed really - maybe its to get it under a 'magic' price point
A good video here Sam, I have one of these myself, the only difference mine has is it doesn’t have sound in it right now, I might look at that though as the Hornby HM7000 has a sound profile for this loco, another difference on mine is I have fitted the accessories to it, I won’t deny that it would be nice to see it retooled but right now I’m not really wanting to get another one, the one I have right now is perfect and as I say I might look at fitting sound to mine at some point in the future.
Thanks a lot David - yeah that is interesting isn't it? Wonder if that sounds any better?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
An interesting fact is the loco it replaced was the relatively newly rebuilt turbomotive that was written off.
I can only assume because the prototype has been out of the public consciousness for quite a few years as it’s been rebuilt. As it’s launch is getting closer they may reintroduce to the range
I love the weird and wonderful and sometimes prototypical locomotives like Gloucester, Turbomotive, Hush Hush etc. Always prefer something special to the more run-of-the-mill mass market models.
Hello Sam how are you?
I’ve been looking to get one of these models and managed to find one that’s in almost new condition though I would want to make the same motor modifications. If you don’t mind me asking, what kind of five-pole miter is that you used in it?
Hope you have a good day God bless
In jest: I don't recall hearing about traction tires on this model, so it can't be a railroad plus, or at least, if they were to put it there, they'd need to put the work in to add them.
Hi Sam - video idea - improving poor mechanisms like this one by changing the axles and adding proper bearings to give a direct comparison.
The wear of that axle seems very interesting. Having it run let's say for 1 hour every few months, in 10 years I don't think it would have so high mileage. If you can find replacement parts I think that you should replace either just the axle , either both the axle and the wheels. Also , improvizing some bearings I think it would be helpful.
If the mechanism was actually good in this model like in the railroad 9f, I probably would consider buying one.
Funny Story Sam. I do actually have the railroad version of this, although it's largely the same the only difference is it's not as much detailed as the railways one.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Ahh interesting - what are the differences out of interest?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I believe the railroad and ones in sets don't have tender pick ups whilst the sound fitted ones do which makes them more reliable runners over points, diamond crossings, etc.
I bet the loco was originally supposed to have bearings hence the square slots, but some bean counter probably had them removed.
Can you add the Manufacturers Product Code to the Review Rankings? would help where there are re-runs or re-toolings of models
I am sure Sam has the skills to make some bearings for that loco.
Hornby is the iconic British company that keeps on giving.
That’s a sentence which could be interpreted in several ways
Got to agree with you. Is that sarcasm?.
...to its shareholders... More more more...
@@jibbsey the shareholders can’t be getting too much out of it if they are operating at such a loss right now
@@jibbsey Reminds me of Thames Water, loads of money going to the shareholders so there’s not much money left to invest in new products and stop relying of 30/40/50 year old mouldings that are repurposed to trick customers who don’t know what they’re getting unless they do their research.
I thought this was a decent model, it was 'value engineered' in the design clever era but it captured the look of the DoG well. The problem was trying to place it in the main range, as a Railroad+ model and with Railroad+ pricing it'd be ideal. Yes it lost details and finery, but on a layout it looks fine. In some ways I'd like to see more such releases but the market spoke and the demand is for high end releases.
i think it would be quite interesting to do a comparison between this and the one that is meant to be less quality version form hornby
Looking at the comments on TT120, I'm old enough to remember the discussions back in 1968 concerning whether, with modernisation, steam outline models would still have a market. We know the answer concerning that, but I do find myself wondering whether TT120 should have, at least initially, gone with modern outline, after all the objective in part was stated to be keeping the hobby relevant to a new generation.
I purchased one of these for my collection about two years ago, and mine appears to have worn the same way that yours has such that is wobbles and stutters. While I think your detail score is a little bit harsh, I generally agree with just about every other point that you made. I started planning a video for my channel covering models that need an upgrade, and this was going to be on the list. Since you covered it here is more detail than I ever could, I'm likely going to find another engine to cover and use this as an honorable mention.
One interesting bit about the history of the real locomotive, is that the enthusiasts that restored and modified it in the seventies made the modifications that they did because they found Robert Riddles' original drawings for it. The builders actually made some changes behind Riddles' back when the loco was under construction, and these changes that were made to cut cost were to blame for its poor performance in service. The enthusiasts' modifications were to rebuild it to Riddles' original specification.
More recently, Hornby made a Black 5 with Caprotti Valve Gear (a variant from the late 40s with about 18 built in total), and they really nailed the gear on that one.
Does anyone have experience of fitting bearings to these older models, and if so could they share details?
Thanks in advance!
I bought this model for 120.00 from an exhibition in spring and thought it isn't going to be amazing for the price but id give it a go and i ended up sticking it on ebay a few weeks later 😂like you mentioned it wasn't in railroad packaging so i was expecting a half decent looking model but even some of hornbys steam locos from the 90s looked better in my opinion, the sound is awful and most importantly the running quality was awful after seeing you take a look at the mechanism and how yours has suffered from wear i can only imagine the one i bought must have been suffering from the same problem, very interesting video, keep up the good work. Tom
I suppose if you knew what you were doing you could add bearings to the axles and that would improve the running. Also I suppose you could upgrade the chip and the speaker too but it depends how much you want to pay. I think I'll stick with older models.
Hi Sam. Interesting video. I have got a normal Hornby railways version of the Duke. A special addition version to tell the truth. Definitely not a railroad version.
I can confirm the loco I have has no electronic connection on it. The DCC socket is in the loco on mine.
When I purchased it I thought excellent a Duke surly Hornby must have done the expensive version to the same quality as their Britannia. But as you showed absolutely not.
The only way I can suggest you can get away with the details being limited is to weather it quite heavily as luck would have it the loco was not.very well liked in BR days. It looked very uncared for indeed in service.
As you touched on Hornby did this on the cheap and it shows. The same is the case on the first P2 they did around the same time.
The thing which really puzzles me is why they put massive amounts of weight in it when they fail to do that in a big scale on their detailed 200 pound models.
Ridiculous really. But as a result mine can pull a large train but I sometimes wonder how long it will do that for.
An interesting study if anything else. Much appreciated
Long term subscriber. Personally, im not a fan of re-reviewing items. Even if it was several years ago. The whole fun of videos for me is going on the journey with you, experiencing things for the 1st time. Just some feedback for what its worth.
Bit its important to see how it’s aged and Sam is making a point to see how well it’s aged….. nube 🤣
What would be a good 5 pole motor with flywheel to get for this model to improve running?
What your favorite of the big four mine is the lner
What exactly do you mean by “design clever” and what is an example of it?
Hi Sam. "No visible glue marks". I thought I saw such a mark on the rear of the tender (or was is a defect in the paint?).
Big blog of glue on the handrail at the back of the cab on the left (20:19)
The wonky wobble is very realistic if rolling over poor track, like in N.E Ohio, USA.
I think we're gonna have to call this one the Duck of Gloucester with that waddle.
I think you gotta interpret this model like the real estate market. Do you prefer the best house on the worst street or the worst house on the best street
Although neither narrow gauge nor a tank engine, rather that engine be named Smudger due to rolling around roughly and often coming off the rails! lol
Would rounded slots for the wheel axles cause more friction between slot and axle? The square slot minimises actual surface area contact, does it not? I'm thinking. But as you say, good machined bearings are best. Interesting engine and quite handsome looking. But Hornby, they do try, I suppose. 👍
re-review with view of highinsight of doing this review thing for a while.
i am quite pleased to see these pop up every once in a while because i do believe in the comment mr. Sam's trains says in begining of these secondary reviews - a lot can change and better means he now has should give better results.
I think it's the wobble causing it to dip down in conjunction with tight radius curves therefore causing rear pony wheel to snag the side of the rail. It's a shame that they chose it to be a fixed rear pony truck with blind wheel flanges adding to the problem of derailing.
Pov: you're a loco and you hear a voice say
*Hello everybody! Sam's trains here and welcome back to the railway"
You know its over
I bought the exact model from a Model near Poynton for £99.50 brand new. Considering today’s obscene prices, I thought it was a bargain!
Hi Sam. The Duke is an enigmatic loco, both in model and prototypical form. Your observations on Hornby's market positioning of the model are spot on. It was very curious: it was crying out to be a full-fat mega detailed special. But they went for the totally opposite approach.
I like The Duke - especially in "as preserved" livery - but I have examples of the GWR heavy tank engines you referred to, and I do not wish to own any more "Design Clever" models. I'll wait and hope for a new-tooled version - from Dapol - perhaps?
Did you know the wrecked Stanier Pacific (Princess Anne), which The Duke was built to replace, started life as the Turbomotive? Also, I'm sure I climbed all over it as a small boy when it was languishing at Barry Scrapyard!
I usually comment that I find your ratings a little harsh, but on this occasion, your 6.93 "E" is rather generous.
I enjoy your "Reviews Revisited" episodes.
Evemodels (of Aliexpress infamy) have started producing their own Locomotives; are these something you might consider for review? They produce several diesel shunters, an 0-4-0 steamer, and some sort of Diesel loco for transport (I believe, i'm not familiar with non-Steam loco's)
Alright ratings Sam and good review video by the way 41:29
Thanks very much Dennis!
@@SamsTrains You're welcome Sam
Would be cool if hornby do a new retooling of this loco
Could you 3D print some plastic bearings for it Sam?
Question is what are they going for on the used market
They’re quite reasonable on the second hand market, quite a few are sold for under £100 and considering that it’s a preserved locomotive that’s very good, back in 2022 I got my one for I think £120, it’s still a good model for me and I have no issues to report and currently I’m thinking of fitting one of hornbys HM7000 sound decoders to mine.
I believe a lot of the railway locos from the early 2010s are now in the railroad range, like the old P2, I don’t think this has any place in the current railroad range and nor would I expect it to, so maybe abit harsh to judge it against modern railways oppose to modern railroad
Hi Sam! Is it okay if I make an out of context compilation of Sam’s trains on my channel? I understand if not. :)
Sure that sounds fun! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Thanks!
Update:
The video is ready. It is set to premiere at 4pm BST 6th sep (tomorrow as of now) :)