As a farmer I suggest you ask the farmer. Why? If you are plowing farmland you can always "feel" the tractor and plow are reacting a little different if the underground is different. I am farming on farmland that's about a 1000 year old and when working on the land can always "feel" where the old roads were. (Sorry for my english, I am from the Netherlands)
Totally agree. The farmers will also know of any areas where there's a drought that stands out due to the ground underneath the soil being of different depth and drying out at different rates therefore revealing details about what's underneath the soil by noticing ground that dries out quicker causing grass to go brown quicker.
One option is that there already was a pre-roman road going around the hill with accommodation etc on it. A good inn. When the Roman roads hit this road they surveyed the hill and did some work but decided that following the line of the earlier road was more profitable and easier. Rome's coffers were not infinite and Roman roads had to pay. Like most projects they bought or claimed the land and resold it at a profit to pay for the project. If something is really valuable they may have made a road to it but if they only discover the high value resource, mine, inn, or sacred site after laying most of the road diverting from the course may be required. Where there are junctions in Roman roads they merge into the pre existing road systems. Are we looking at one Roman road with a kink in it or a node between two roman roads and a forgotten settlement of some significance?
lol this reminds me of that cartoon meme where the lady tells her excited partner she'd like to try toys in the bedroom and in the next frame, he's using her bum as a ramp to launch his matchbox cars!
Greetings from New Zealand. We have done a survey about why your road has a kink in it. First was the Legionaries spotted a pub selling genuine warm English beer. Second was they spotted a Roman sandal repair shop giving away free walk socks which could come in handy during the marching season.
Perhaps the path could have split: those on foot and horseback went straight on and those with cargo took the diversion. Perhaps the intention was for all traffic to go straight but erosion damage from heavy rain meant the diversion became more appropriate for those with heavy carts. It seems very likely to me that those on foot would mostly cut corners and take a more direct route even if the official road was diverted. So perhaps both you and the current maps are correct.
This happens all the time in less developed places. People take short cuts just like this on many trails I've been on. Just depends upon how easy either option is. And carts likely had a harder time taking the ditch. And when carts divert, the carts cut a larger and more obvious road, making it the default official road over time.
Tip from my rabbits for filming subtle geophysical features on camera - waft the camera up and down a bit - this helps differentiate the height of things in the foreground and background. (Rabbits move their head up and down I assume to give them some dept perspective to make up for their peripheral vision morphology).
Thank you for following up on this. It is nice to see how invested you both are. How nice that the landowner allowed you to look around. I hope we will hear about this again - maybe after some archeological research has been carried out.
A wonderful insight into something which 99% of the population would never think about! I love the editing and light-hearted delivery. I'm sure that if History lessons were taught like, this we'd be a much 'richer' nation!
Since we’re watching this 2D on our gadget screens it is much more difficult to make out than for you with binocular vision and 3D at the scene. Your demonstration was very helpful, thank you. Making it plain by walking along the different paths was brilliant.
I believe there was a strong relationship between the Roman roads and more ancient trackways that have an origin way back in the past, along ley lines. Not in the pseudo-science sense that that name brings up nowadays, but in the sense that Alfred Watkins intended when he first coined the name - of ancient cross-country trade routes when Britain was first being recolonised after the last ice age finished. Those ancient tracks often remained long after the area was settled, marking routes from horizon to horizon, over significant hilltop points. As such, the ancient route may well have gone directly over the hill, and the old hill fort you mention may have been developed at one of those significant hilltop points. Then the Romans came, found a long straight track already heading much where they wanted to go, and they re-used it - but bypassed the hilltop to avoid having to march over the top, taking a more graded route below that point. Then, as the area was settled, the valley area became farmland and the Roman road disappeared under the plough. Maybe the Roman road had already fallen out of use because the long-distance track was no longer needed, and new roads were developed that linked the local settlements and villages. Then later we found a need for a long-distance road again, but the Roman route had by then disappeared, so they linked the gap by adopting the newer, village routes and turning them into a new main road. Maybe this route is even more well-graded than the old Roman road was, and that with more wheeled traffic it was better to travel a longer, flat distance than a shorter, more hilly route - hence the current deviation off a straight route and back again? I believe there is another example of this on the Fosse Way (A429) just north of the junction with the A40. The old Roman Road goes for some distance in an almost perfect straight line from this junction, northeast to where it crosses the Windrush River near Bourton on the Water. But one mile north of the A40 junction it deviates off this line to the right, and descends the side of a hill towards the bottom of a valley where it crosses a small stream, then turns left and climbs the other side of the valley, where after deviating for about two miles in length it rejoins its original line. I believe the stream crossing point had been established long before the Romans came, and the two legs of the deviation path already existed, with trackways to and from that crossing point. The Roman surveyors marked out the overall route, but re-used the existing tracks for the deviation off it, down the valley to the crossing point and back up, because it was well graded and reasonably direct (only 1/3 mile) off their route. So when you mark it on a map, the deviation looks strange, but I believe I can make a good case for why the Romans chose to do that. And our modern road still follows that old route - maybe 10,000 years since that deviation down to the stream crossing was first defined.
Rob, I find your suggestions very persuasive, and thank you for spelling them out in such detail. I've just spooled up a quick map of Roman roads in Britain, and such kinks and deviations are not actually that rare, although to be fair the Chute Causeway is massive in comparison to any other. I have a hunch that the Romans never built across the valley, but made use of an existing pathway around the western side of the depression and difficult ground that was robust enough to meet their needs or serve as a good foundation to a Roman built road. I bet I am wrong though!! Paul/Rebecca - thinking ahead, even if no one is going to do any archaeology, would some drone flying later in the year to look for crop marks along what you think could be the road's path be a good use of your time, or flying when the sun is low to see if any features cast a shadow?
Spent thousands of hours as a flight instructor over Herefordshire and Radnor Vale, the very area Alfred Watkins focused upon in his 'The Old Straight Track', a book that fascinated me then as it does now. From the air it was very apparent that there was hardly a straight line feature that did not align with/terminate on some prominent mound or notch between distant hills although the 'modern day' road often does bypass such features. A classic case in point is the conical hill near Canon Pyon, Herefordshire and the straight road running several miles north from it, to quote but one of the numerous examples on offer.
@@kennethrodmell9006 Nice to find another Watkins fan! :o) I had a look on Google Earth at the hill by Canon Pyon, and it appears to have something on the top, hidden amongst the trees. An old tower, maybe, like the one on Leith Hill in Surrey?
If these follow paleo-roads, then they were established because of the marshlands. Right after the ice age, the lands would have been sodden with quicksand. A watch-hill would have been manned (or shepherded) to guide people passing through. The wheel could only be used on (shallow) solid rock or during those times of year when the marshland dried hard enough. ?
That makes perfect sense, just as in the US there are highways that more or less follow the same route as ancient Indian trails. The oldest routes follow the shortest, easiest paths and it only makes sense that later roads would follow the same routes.
Thanks for the mention! I realise that my work was only “armchair theory” pulled together from studying the map and other sources, but so far your site investigations continue to back it up. I still recon the exceptionally steep hill climbing out of the valley on the far side is key to all this. As you rightly say, only a proper archeological investigation will sort this one out! I was glued to this video, so thank you for taking the time to get permissions and film it in such careful detail! Cheers!
That was fabulous it really was. Just watching you two carry on really makes me laugh. Love that area it is so pretty and you even looked like you knew what you were doing, lol. Thanks for taking me along. Please stay safe and take care
I stumbled onto your channel. Being a history buff from Canada, I must say your episodes are very well done. It’s like watching a BBC documentary. They keep me interested from the start to the end. Drone footage is great along with the LiDAR. I’m now a subscriber.
This really is an odd one .. we still don't know why the ancient road took a detour .. but looking at the relief map there I'd say it simply went round a hill ..
@@janinapalmer8368 I think you are right, there is a complex relief obstacle here, although I'd call it a valley. Paul made the point that the Romans would have drawn two straight lines from town to town to bypass this feature completely as at 2:58 in the video. It looks very unusual for them to go straight at it then kink around it as they did survey ahead to look for obstacles. My gut feeling is that there was a preexisting trackway around the edge of the depression that was useable enough for the Romans to make an exception to their usual standards and make use of a few kilometres of that trackway to by pass the depression, and save the work of building across the complex ground. I'd love to see some evidence of the road going straight across but scouring maps and aerial photography doesn't show anything indicative.
Interesting. I'm amazed at the history there. I'm in Colorado and you don't find much over 150 years old here, except for native American artifacts. I'm impressed with lidar!
Well done! You really got me with this further talk of the kinks. Thanks to the time diff, I'll likely ponder this the whole sunny afternoon. Maybe all day and all of the night.
I love your conspiratorial presentation style and all these interesting locations. But your drone vid last week was OUTSTANDING! I've watched it a bunch of times and continue to find it both beautiful and relaxing, and your choices of music are perfect as well. Thanks so Much!
Another roman road with a kink in it is Oxford Hight Street. When the Romans got to near the bottom of what is now the High Street, they were approaching the Thames at an angle. So the put a kink in it so it they crossed the river at right angles. This was done because it was cheaper to build a bridge at right angles because it used less material. Check it out :)
Anyone who remembers the 80s documentary series "Chelmsford 123" knows the real reason for that kink - the road was diverted to avoid demolishing a brothel that was in the way.
I saw an earlier documentary in the 70s (The Two Ronnies perhaps?) which showed that all the bends on the M1 motorway were adjacent to pubs where the survey teams had stopped for lunch.
@@MeFreeBee I'm always wary of these stories about drunk surveyors. We have our own version in Canada about a survey team getting drunk then travelling down the wrong river before finding out about their mistakes a few miles later and not caring to correct it. I've always wondered if that kind of thing would have been tolerated. Honestly, colonial times are full of lawsuits about respecting lines here and there. And most of them were carefully surveyed given the era technology. I'm not against that folklore, I would like to find concrete evidences. Each times I try to dig these questions, it's all about hearsay, legends and hastily put together documentaries. Working myself in the construction building, I know very well many takes a lot of liberties with their work, but rarely in such a dramatic way. Who knows? Anyway, these stories are funny.
I always liked the way Chelmsford 123 dug deep to get a full analysis of the Romano British culture. But I fear Sailormatlac you may need to Google the relevant documentaries to get the full picture of their work.
9:38 They couldn't possibly build that road straight, there is a fence! But seriously, thanks for uploading. I was pinned to my monitor for almost 13 minutes flat. Very interesting content!
Love the video. I tend towards the idea that the straight way over the hill was the original path, mainly for foot and horseback traffic, while the kink developed over time as being more suitable for heavier loads, wagons etc, and probably more often usable in bad weather. So the kink prevailed. Just a small point about your text at 1.45 … I think it should be "cite" rather than "Site".
Grew up in england but am now back in the states where I was born. My favorite quote is that the biggest difference between england and the u.s. is that in england they think 200 miles is a long way in the u.s. they think 200 years is a long time.
It would be interesting to know what the landscape was like at the time the Roman Road was being constructed. It is tempting to assume that this would have been a mix of woodland and open fields as per today, but I suspect it would have been very different. If the bottom of the valley had been dense woodland or seriously waterlogged, then the intended course may have been abandoned as being too difficult. Perhaps the direct line passing so close to the hill fort is also significant. Great editing by the way. I loved the presenter jump cuts. Just watch out for those branches ...
Roman roads were built through all conditions, such a terrain feature would not stop them, they had egineered contingencies for marshes that did not require going around them.
@@SergeantSquared Even modern day roads in marshland require a lot of upkeep. Quite possible the maintenance support in the region was stretched, and someone made the command decision to move the road.
@@SergeantSquared Not mad at all, I used to review bridge and road construction in Northern British Columbia and the Yukon. Trying to keep a road maintained in a swamp is a lot of work, particularity if there are beavers around. Which I suspect that in roman times, beavers were far more common?
Fascinating stuff. As a relative local (Newbury) I drive around this area quite a bit to give the kids a taste of the wonderful countryside on the doorstep. They love seeing all the ancient monuments nearby. Really interesting content and really well presented. Love the overlays and projections. Outstanding work.
I did say that this road was originally in a straight (ish) line last time your were there. The "almost immediate" deviation could have been made for many different reasons but I think "time" is important to consider here. The original straight route may have been in use for say 20 or 40 or 70 years (that's quite a long time) but the deviation maybe have been in use for say 200 years. that's a lot longer. We're talking about 2500 year old Roman roads. When they built them, 10 years in the future for them was probably a long time. I really feel "time" is the key to this one.
Awesome. Thank you. Exploring...always so much fun. Layers of history to be found . I remember rediscovering an abandoned road up high in some very rugged bush in NZ when were trapping opposums( pests over here) . It was the original road into a remote (at the time valley) In less than 50 years it had been almost forgotten. It was very exciting. Then we have you guys who are dealing with thousands of years.. incredible!
Roman Roads are strange beasts. We think of them as being very long and very straight, but that's just a result of an open landscape with no obstructions. Someone walking from point A to point B will go as directly as possible, as you pointed out earlier, the kink is actually the worst way around in terms of directness. But the actual thing about Roman Roads that really defines them, is that they were built by the military, for the military. So, they liked to stick to the top of a ridge wherever possible so they could see their enemy and avoid being ambushed, they would turn, but only at the highest point of the hill so they can have the best possible view of the surrounding landscape, in short they were built for the best strategic advantage as much as they were for speed and directness. The problem I see with the direct route at this location isn't that it goes into the valley, but that it continues along the valley between two hills under the ramparts of a hill fort. It's the perfect place to get your legion ambushed and destroyed. I suggest that although it may have been in use during the Roman period, that it isn't a Roman Road but an ancient trackway, from a time where walking directly was the best way to travel between A and B.
Yes, you are spot-on there, have taken people flying myself during August droughts just for that very purpose - there is a microlight school not that far away who would love to help!
Ivan Margary did a lot more than just catalogue the Roman roads. For example, he financed the very expensive excavation of the fabulous Roman palace at Fishbourne, near Chichester in Sussex during the 1960s. I was at the official opening of the site where he was present, and if I remember correctly his name was pronounced with the accent on the first syllable (a bit like Margaret), not as you said it. A great piece of research by the pair of you, and a pity that there was no definite conclusion. Carry on the good work!
You are quite correct about the mispronunciation. The work of Margary does not get the credit it deserves though this was not always the case. Plenty of critics but I am not one of them. He mostly gets it right and I do not get an attitude when he doesn't. When there is a comparable body of work then maybe some of that criticism can be justified. Till then he remains at the heart of the subject for better or worse.
I agree this would be perfect for time team. It has all the elements of what goes into a time team episode. An area not excavated before. A mystery to solve. Some physical evidence supporting the theory. Clearly historical. Explores area of interest not discussed on a prior episode. You should contact them directly as this is how they decide what projects get approved as episodes.
I was going to suggest the same. During lockdown I've been watching a lot of their episodes, and this does seem like something right up their alley. Or road, in this case.
I love the way you both swap over explaining what's going on. More videos should do this as it shows both men and women can take an interest and explain things that otherwise might just stereotypically appeal to one gender.
The modern OS map gives a hint. The slope was quite steep and would have been tricky for horse drawn wagons especially in bad weather. Perhaps the deviation was to avoid the worst of the slope.
A more modern example of this is a turnpike built in New Hampshire (US) in the 1700s that was relatively straight, but in my neighborhood it takes a loop to avoid a steep slope and then returns to its straight course. A local historian explained that it was originally built in a straight line, but farmers complained that it was too steep for their wagons, so it was rerouted to make the slope more gentle.
it’s also a preexisting route, so why build a completely new road over steep terrain when you have a good route already? it’s also tough to attack the road from above as you’re at a disadvantage because of the same terrain preventing a mass attack against a heavily armed group of soldiers
This video topic had my attention for the rest of the day! I agree with some of the other commenters, about the terrain. So if we could scroll back the landscape, two things would stand out at the point where Hunderford Lane ends. Facing the Romans would have been a forest growing out of very wet marshland - hence the long causeway that had already been constructed - and, I suspect that the approach may have been lower, so the scarp slope facing them may have been taller, and closer to a 500 ft cliff. It is unthinkable that no-one had been sent ahead to scout, so that dear chap would have found a marsh on the other side of the hill, too, and another valley. The cut that you found may have been the approach to a substantial jetty for moorings, so that when the valley was totally flooded, it was navigable by boat towards the causeway and the farm. (Also possibly a place to go fishing.) If you look at where the nearest farm buildings are located today, they are all at a similar elevatvion, suggesting that building lower down was impractical. No doubt an archaeological dig would make a host of fascinating finds.
Just re looked at the OS map on my pad. Looking on satellite, you can clearly see a shadow going straight from tidcombe down towards the southern section of the road, and a short bit up from the Andover side towards tidcombe. Looks to me like they started each end, saw how hilly it was, changed the route for easier gradients and the 2 short bits were abandoned.
As I'm French by descent although many centenaries ago I agree most roads in France run straight especially from Nantes to Angers which is as straight as an arrow. Keep going. I wish my late history Tutor Kevin Jolly was still with us he'd have been fascinated. RIP Sir
watching your video i came up with an idea, at the end you said maybe they built it in a straight line but later maybe changed it, could it be that the romans built this nice straight road with the terrace but the locals and troops marching with horse and carts all of them combined maybe found that the terrace the road followed was maybe too steep in winter carts could slip down the gradient or lose their wares they were transporting same with the military maybe losing valuable military equipment to the steepness of the hill. so they decided to follow the smooth base of the hill around it then reconnect with the road on the other side? or eve after the romans left the locals couldnt keep afford to repair the terrace so they used and easier cheaper to repair road. just a thought let me know what you think. love the videos though great work.
One of the best yet! Keep on with the Stirling performances. And, keep on with the health precautions... would really hate to lose even one episode. Paul M. Portland, Oregon.
When you mentioned "dig" my mind went to Time Team as they are coming back soon with all new episodes! Wouldn't a trench put across the roman road and Grim's ditch be interesting! Great Video!
What I really like about this is that they respected the land owners rights to the land and were careful not to trespass, from what I understand about the UK is that it's not really illegal to trespass unless you interfere with the lawful activities done on the land. They still respected that and asked before walking around on the property despite there not being much of a punishment (as far as I know, I'm not a legal expert, just someone with British friends). I do a lot of hiking and photography while hiking, I'm always very respectful about asking the people who might own the land before I do things, so long as those people are available and not obviously ok with it.
Hi, I just found your channel by accident, and am very pleased to have done so. Great teamwork and a great video. Very interesting. I recently moved house and now live right next to a 'minor' Roman road which is for the most part elevated above the surrounding fields. It's very difficult to find on maps and appears not to have been documented much at all. It is wooded, and has a more 'modern' 'B' road running alongside it, which is itself called 'Roman Road'. Of course, the ancient route was probably being used before the Romans. The ground for miles around is pretty much entirely flat, but 100m or so from our house the land and both Roman and modern roads, drop steeply and there's a natural spring before the land rises again. Both roads start at a major Roman town, pass beside the spring, (with the Roman road ALMOST passing THROUGH it, then continue for a mile or so before APPARENTLY disappearing at a small village. HOWEVER, the modern 'Roman Road' has a kink in it. Intrigued, I looked on Google Earth, and I could see a dark strip running across a ploughed field in direct continuation of the original Roman road and it appears to end on the banks of a narrow river, although of course, that river will have meandered over the millennia, but not by a huge amount. The villages around and about have Roman and Saxon origins. I can't see any further signs of the Roman road continuing onwards after the river, but I imagine it did. There is a 'Salt Way' or 'Lane' not too far beyond, and if I understand correctly, that was most likely used by the Romans to transport salt from Worcestershire to the south coast for export. My question is............ what are the chances that the 'spring' near me, and the 'crossing' at the river were actually the sites of Pagan, and then Roman temples? It seems odd that the Roman road should pass directly through this quite steep and very localized 'dip' in the land, where there is a spring.
I just watched this video and have to say, this is the very first ever video by you two that I have seen and I thoroughly enjoyed it! Why am I here? Well, sometimes I just get a thought in my head and I fancy going off on a tangent and this afternoon, after seeing a TV programme about ancient Rome and the building that have been found underneath the streets, at some points you are able to go underground by a couple of stories in depth and look at, and walk into a whole ancient group of buildings or a street or large building, literally built and stil standing underneath where another building was built directly on the top of it! Anyway, I found this to be very fascinating and I suddenly was faced with the realisation that my knowledge of the ancient Rome city and ancient Romans was so severely lacking that I immediately felt the need to start filling in this gaping hole in my knowledge! I typed into youtube 'roman roads in Britain' as a starting point of interest. I ended up right here at your video. I am subscribing now. Thank you, you are great presenters and will help me to fill some holes!
Your proposed route would have been extremely difficult during the wet times. I propose they built it as you suspect, but quickly rerouted the road after continual problems with drainage.
Thanks, very well done & entertaining. The roman road mystery was one of my entry point to your channel, so much appreciated to see you revisiting that place. Did you ever check for signs of the old road coming from the north to the kink?
I do not know if anyone in the comments have mentioned this...BUT, how about doing some metal detecting in the farmers field, if the road was there, there should be Roman coins, etc under the farm land... They do that all over the farms in the UK... 👍
Thanks for this. I saw your earlier video on this subject. I didn't say anything, but I could not quite see what you were seeing. It is much clearer this time.
Always enjoy your videos. I too seem to get attacked by branches and things LOL! Interesting to see where the old Roman roads went and knowing why there was a deviation in the road. May be as you point out the lay of the land made it easier to go around especially with transporting goods and equipment perhaps. It is interesting to see where old roads and pathways went and what settlements were along the way, all part of our history. Thank you again.
The deviation looks like a later road going round the boundary of an early deer park which were often roughly oval. You can see most of the boundary on the OS map. Roman roads cross deer parks elsewhere including Ryknield Street at Sutton Park, Sutton Coldfield. At Ongar Park in Essex and Hexgrave Park near Southwell, Nottinghamshire, there were hatches or gates where the road entered the park.
Hi both, great video, and so interesting. I guess it could be something as simple as a Roman road improvement. The hill is quite a feature of the landscape there, so maybe the original road went over the hill and the newer one went round as the gradients were more favourable to the army and any wagons. Years ago I remember working as a coach driver and we always used to point out interesting things in a journey. I used to tell our passengers that you could tell where the Romans camped at night when they were building there roads. In the daytime the road would be perfectly straight, then the construction teams would camp out and have a good meal and a few drinks. Next morning, still a bit worse for wear from the night before the first few miles of road would be a bit wobbly until they all sobered up. Yeah silly I know, but it passed the journey for everyone.
I was talking about this with a largely American group on a writer's forum. They only really knew straight roads from a USA perspective. I told them that they have that little curve every so often, right? Yup, it's so we stay awake! - It's the same here - the chariots would build up so much speed coming down from the North they had a massive sand trap, in case, and this is the detour. Okay, I'm evil.
Well done for the research!! Two points you need to consider about Roman roads and Trackways of the past (not found in text books sadly!!) The original (pre-Roman Roads) were Dykes (like Grimes - much older than 500 BCE) these were cut to the topography of the landscape which was much wetter in the past than today - as water table levels have significantly altered over the last 5,000 years. Dykes are ditches and banks and are 'fairly' straight in nature (Offa and Wansdyke are classic) at a later date (when the dykes dried up) the banks were used as trackways as they are raised (above the mud) and follow to pre-roman settlements. When the Romans came (when available) they reused these dykes (ancient trackways) and these are clearly seen in Wansdyke were 30% of the proposed Dyke is a Roman road on top of the Dyke. Your 'kink' is the result of misidentification and an old dyke. These dykes link to paleochannels of the past and your farm valley was one of these and hence the confusion and lack of Lidar evidence (the valley was a big river in the past) and even in Roman times far too wet to place a road - so they followed Grimes around the valley or they built a wooden bridge - which has now disappeared (post holes would still be found if excavated)? facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=340196171467579&set=p.340196171467579&type=3
I don’t believe the valley contained a big river - Hippenscombe is a chalk valley in porous rock. These valleys formed during the ice ages, apparently, but weren’t eroded by flowing water.
LiDAR is amazing! It makes me smile when Americans talk about how *old* some thing is. A century or two is simply *ancient* 😹 in the states; you simply don’t get that sense of history that you do in Europe. Walking a road that has existed for millennia, following in the footsteps of people who lived and had the same wants and needs and are long since dust… there’s just something wonderful and melancholy about it.
Leave it to a European to think no one was in America until a few hundred years ago. They have a long history of showing up places, taking over and pretending no one was already living there.
I've just found this and I am fascinated that someone is as curious about the Chute Causeway as I was when I cycled this area over forty years ago. I now live in Italy but miss exploring ancient British tracks immensely. My particular project was tracing Roman stuff around Leicester, especially Gartree Road, Via Devana (?) as it is now identified as. I will follow your progress from now on.
I reckon that you're right that the roman road was built straight and their mind was later changed. As for why I guess we will never know but it seems most likely the inclines caused a hassle for traffic , especially troops with heavy equipment ect, as you said, and so the diversion was created fairly early on to flatten it out. I agree that something like this is odd as the lack of foresight is unusual for Romans but it doesn't mean mistakes were never made. Just think you could be walking in evidence of some roman road planner having a really bad day a few thousand years go 😅 anyway it seems to wrap everything up nicely and I believe you should be confident in the idea you've solved it.
A ancien Roman road in Spain, very well preserved, very well made and that crossed a mountain pass, with monoliths or rock posts indicating its edge for when it was covered by snow, with small bridges to jump over the torrents, which currently It is used for the massive transfer of cattle between summer pastures in the mountains and winter pastures in the plains. : th-cam.com/video/YBM-p0uNxk0/w-d-xo.html
Go to the other end and see if there is evidence of a deviation onto the straight line. Just a thought. However, in archaeology, if you don't know why something has occurred or what something is, you always fall back on - 'it would have been for ritual reasons'. (passed my exams with that!!)
I grew up a few miles from RAF Scampton in Lincolnshire, it's on the A15 which also follows an old Roman Road - the section from Scampton to the M180 is the longest stretch of straight road in the UK. Curiously, it also has a very similar bulge/kink which was introduced when the runway at the RAF base was lengthened during the Cold War. You can clearly see the old vs. new route by hovering in satellite view via Google maps.
Love this vid! First time watching. Cool seeing a couple like this. Def subscribing. Don't really think the kink is weird. Looks like its going around the hills like the road on the east side of haydown hill.
That makes sense that they built it then changed their mind. That bit of road was steep. It makes loads of sense to follow the already existing road around the hill.
I bet it was built over a relatively high-quality pre-existing road. Since going straight over the hill might have been difficult. Another option is they were keeping a defensive perimeter around a fortification to protect from the East.
There were accessory roads around many villages and towns. It gave large columns and migratory groups a chance to go around without having to enter. Drovers, soldiers, guys in wagons hauling tin or wool, would live to have a way around, that let them retain their marching order and provided camp sites not in the middle of an urban center.
As a farmer I suggest you ask the farmer. Why? If you are plowing farmland you can always "feel" the tractor and plow are reacting a little different if the underground is different. I am farming on farmland that's about a 1000 year old and when working on the land can always "feel" where the old roads were. (Sorry for my english, I am from the Netherlands)
I just wanted to write that. Greetings from Fryslan. 👍🇳🇱
You conveyed your meaning perfectly! Farmers are awesome.
As a Canadian, I don't mind your European accent at all. A refreshing change to hear something like it.
Totally agree. The farmers will also know of any areas where there's a drought that stands out due to the ground underneath the soil being of different depth and drying out at different rates therefore revealing details about what's underneath the soil by noticing ground that dries out quicker causing grass to go brown quicker.
your english is great, also your country is amazing and its the place where i want to move for reasons
One option is that there already was a pre-roman road going around the hill with accommodation etc on it. A good inn. When the Roman roads hit this road they surveyed the hill and did some work but decided that following the line of the earlier road was more profitable and easier. Rome's coffers were not infinite and Roman roads had to pay. Like most projects they bought or claimed the land and resold it at a profit to pay for the project. If something is really valuable they may have made a road to it but if they only discover the high value resource, mine, inn, or sacred site after laying most of the road diverting from the course may be required. Where there are junctions in Roman roads they merge into the pre existing road systems. Are we looking at one Roman road with a kink in it or a node between two roman roads and a forgotten settlement of some significance?
I'm absolutely with you on that one and was going to comment thus, but no point reinventing the wheel!
I bet when you said to Rebecca " let's do something kinky this weekend" she wasn't expecting Roman roads!
Always the way
lol this reminds me of that cartoon meme where the lady tells her excited partner she'd like to try toys in the bedroom and in the next frame, he's using her bum as a ramp to launch his matchbox cars!
LOL.😘🤔 NAKED CHEF SYMPOSIUM😉😆 MAYBE ❓😸😸
@@Jason-io5bu GO DORRSET😉🇨🇦😻👋✅
He should just be happy she didn't ditch him..
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I know, I know, I just couldn't resist.
Greetings from New Zealand. We have done a survey about why your road has a kink in it. First was the Legionaries spotted a pub selling genuine warm English beer. Second was they spotted a Roman sandal repair shop giving away free walk socks which could come in handy during the marching season.
Perhaps the path could have split: those on foot and horseback went straight on and those with cargo took the diversion. Perhaps the intention was for all traffic to go straight but erosion damage from heavy rain meant the diversion became more appropriate for those with heavy carts. It seems very likely to me that those on foot would mostly cut corners and take a more direct route even if the official road was diverted. So perhaps both you and the current maps are correct.
I like this Christopher. Just need to a) get someone involved that would confirm this was a thing and b) some digging!
Christopher's comment is pretty much what I was thinking, sometimes its a lot easier to go the less direct route
This happens all the time in less developed places. People take short cuts just like this on many trails I've been on. Just depends upon how easy either option is. And carts likely had a harder time taking the ditch. And when carts divert, the carts cut a larger and more obvious road, making it the default official road over time.
Yes, sometimes it’s much easier and faster to detour around a ravine than to take the unnecessary grades.
@@davidorf3921 so true lol any hiker/hill Walker will tell you this 😂
Another SO interesting video. Many thanks and well done.
Tip from my rabbits for filming subtle geophysical features on camera - waft the camera up and down a bit - this helps differentiate the height of things in the foreground and background. (Rabbits move their head up and down I assume to give them some dept perspective to make up for their peripheral vision morphology).
Thank you for following up on this. It is nice to see how invested you both are. How nice that the landowner allowed you to look around. I hope we will hear about this again - maybe after some archeological research has been carried out.
A wonderful insight into something which 99% of the population would never think about! I love the editing and light-hearted delivery. I'm sure that if History lessons were taught like, this we'd be a much 'richer' nation!
Since we’re watching this 2D on our gadget screens it is much more difficult to make out than for you with binocular vision and 3D at the scene. Your demonstration was very helpful, thank you. Making it plain by walking along the different paths was brilliant.
Omg……I’ve just found your channel and love the history and alignment of Roman Roads. I’m starting to watch everything you’ve done.
Welcome to the channel John. 😀
I believe there was a strong relationship between the Roman roads and more ancient trackways that have an origin way back in the past, along ley lines. Not in the pseudo-science sense that that name brings up nowadays, but in the sense that Alfred Watkins intended when he first coined the name - of ancient cross-country trade routes when Britain was first being recolonised after the last ice age finished. Those ancient tracks often remained long after the area was settled, marking routes from horizon to horizon, over significant hilltop points. As such, the ancient route may well have gone directly over the hill, and the old hill fort you mention may have been developed at one of those significant hilltop points.
Then the Romans came, found a long straight track already heading much where they wanted to go, and they re-used it - but bypassed the hilltop to avoid having to march over the top, taking a more graded route below that point. Then, as the area was settled, the valley area became farmland and the Roman road disappeared under the plough. Maybe the Roman road had already fallen out of use because the long-distance track was no longer needed, and new roads were developed that linked the local settlements and villages. Then later we found a need for a long-distance road again, but the Roman route had by then disappeared, so they linked the gap by adopting the newer, village routes and turning them into a new main road. Maybe this route is even more well-graded than the old Roman road was, and that with more wheeled traffic it was better to travel a longer, flat distance than a shorter, more hilly route - hence the current deviation off a straight route and back again?
I believe there is another example of this on the Fosse Way (A429) just north of the junction with the A40. The old Roman Road goes for some distance in an almost perfect straight line from this junction, northeast to where it crosses the Windrush River near Bourton on the Water. But one mile north of the A40 junction it deviates off this line to the right, and descends the side of a hill towards the bottom of a valley where it crosses a small stream, then turns left and climbs the other side of the valley, where after deviating for about two miles in length it rejoins its original line. I believe the stream crossing point had been established long before the Romans came, and the two legs of the deviation path already existed, with trackways to and from that crossing point. The Roman surveyors marked out the overall route, but re-used the existing tracks for the deviation off it, down the valley to the crossing point and back up, because it was well graded and reasonably direct (only 1/3 mile) off their route. So when you mark it on a map, the deviation looks strange, but I believe I can make a good case for why the Romans chose to do that. And our modern road still follows that old route - maybe 10,000 years since that deviation down to the stream crossing was first defined.
Rob, I find your suggestions very persuasive, and thank you for spelling them out in such detail. I've just spooled up a quick map of Roman roads in Britain, and such kinks and deviations are not actually that rare, although to be fair the Chute Causeway is massive in comparison to any other. I have a hunch that the Romans never built across the valley, but made use of an existing pathway around the western side of the depression and difficult ground that was robust enough to meet their needs or serve as a good foundation to a Roman built road. I bet I am wrong though!!
Paul/Rebecca - thinking ahead, even if no one is going to do any archaeology, would some drone flying later in the year to look for crop marks along what you think could be the road's path be a good use of your time, or flying when the sun is low to see if any features cast a shadow?
Spent thousands of hours as a flight instructor over Herefordshire and Radnor Vale, the very area Alfred Watkins focused upon in his 'The Old Straight Track', a book that fascinated me then as it does now. From the air it was very apparent that there was hardly a straight line feature that did not align with/terminate on some prominent mound or notch between distant hills although the 'modern day' road often does bypass such features. A classic case in point is the conical hill near Canon Pyon, Herefordshire and the straight road running several miles north from it, to quote but one of the numerous examples on offer.
@@kennethrodmell9006 Nice to find another Watkins fan! :o) I had a look on Google Earth at the hill by Canon Pyon, and it appears to have something on the top, hidden amongst the trees. An old tower, maybe, like the one on Leith Hill in Surrey?
If these follow paleo-roads, then they were established because of the marshlands. Right after the ice age, the lands would have been sodden with quicksand. A watch-hill would have been manned (or shepherded) to guide people passing through. The wheel could only be used on (shallow) solid rock or during those times of year when the marshland dried hard enough. ?
That makes perfect sense, just as in the US there are highways that more or less follow the same route as ancient Indian trails. The oldest routes follow the shortest, easiest paths and it only makes sense that later roads would follow the same routes.
Thanks for the mention! I realise that my work was only “armchair theory” pulled together from studying the map and other sources, but so far your site investigations continue to back it up. I still recon the exceptionally steep hill climbing out of the valley on the far side is key to all this. As you rightly say, only a proper archeological investigation will sort this one out!
I was glued to this video, so thank you for taking the time to get permissions and film it in such careful detail! Cheers!
Thanks Malcolm. Your homework is never wasted thats for sure. All saved up, ready to deploy!!
it’s a solid theory, backed by centuries of logical thinking and experience so you are more than justified and likely correct!
So glad you are both OK and that was a really fascinating video.
Thank you.
Very glad to see you both well again stay safe and thanks for the interesting kink.
That was fabulous it really was. Just watching you two carry on really makes me laugh. Love that area it is so pretty and you even looked like you knew what you were doing, lol. Thanks for taking me along. Please stay safe and take care
Thanks Linda, always a pleasure.
I stumbled onto your channel. Being a history buff from Canada, I must say your episodes are very well done. It’s like watching a BBC documentary. They keep me interested from the start to the end. Drone footage is great along with the LiDAR. I’m now a subscriber.
Welcome.
Oh this got me laughing right from the start - you are a terrific double act. Oh and nice jumper Paul! My mum still knits them, I've put an order in.
Cheque is in the post
Never mind Paul's jumper .. he's got heaps of them !! I like Becca's new beanie 🥰🥰.... very cosy 😀😀
This really is an odd one .. we still don't know why the ancient road took a detour .. but looking at the relief map there I'd say it simply went round a hill ..
@@janinapalmer8368 I think you are right, there is a complex relief obstacle here, although I'd call it a valley. Paul made the point that the Romans would have drawn two straight lines from town to town to bypass this feature completely as at 2:58 in the video. It looks very unusual for them to go straight at it then kink around it as they did survey ahead to look for obstacles. My gut feeling is that there was a preexisting trackway around the edge of the depression that was useable enough for the Romans to make an exception to their usual standards and make use of a few kilometres of that trackway to by pass the depression, and save the work of building across the complex ground.
I'd love to see some evidence of the road going straight across but scouring maps and aerial photography doesn't show anything indicative.
Yes....good fun and very interesting.
I disagree about the jumper, though...
You two are a hoot as well as being informative. Glad I found you. 👍🏻👍🏻
Interesting. I'm amazed at the history there. I'm in Colorado and you don't find much over 150 years old here, except for native American artifacts. I'm impressed with lidar!
Well done! You really got me with this further talk of the kinks. Thanks to the time diff, I'll likely ponder this the whole sunny afternoon. Maybe all day and all of the night.
Hope you managed it and you wasn't tired of waiting.
I love your conspiratorial presentation style and all these interesting locations. But your drone vid last week was OUTSTANDING! I've watched it a bunch of times and continue to find it both beautiful and relaxing, and your choices of music are perfect as well. Thanks so Much!
Thanks Jeff. Very kind. We much prefer the exploring videos as it's nice to get out and about.
Nice upload. Great land survey of the Roman Rd,, drone shot, narration and video editing. Interesting to watch. Tnx4sharing 🙋
Another roman road with a kink in it is Oxford Hight Street. When the Romans got to near the bottom of what is now the High Street, they were approaching the Thames at an angle. So the put a kink in it so it they crossed the river at right angles. This was done because it was cheaper to build a bridge at right angles because it used less material. Check it out :)
Anyone who remembers the 80s documentary series "Chelmsford 123" knows the real reason for that kink - the road was diverted to avoid demolishing a brothel that was in the way.
I saw an earlier documentary in the 70s (The Two Ronnies perhaps?) which showed that all the bends on the M1 motorway were adjacent to pubs where the survey teams had stopped for lunch.
@@MeFreeBee I'm always wary of these stories about drunk surveyors. We have our own version in Canada about a survey team getting drunk then travelling down the wrong river before finding out about their mistakes a few miles later and not caring to correct it. I've always wondered if that kind of thing would have been tolerated. Honestly, colonial times are full of lawsuits about respecting lines here and there. And most of them were carefully surveyed given the era technology. I'm not against that folklore, I would like to find concrete evidences. Each times I try to dig these questions, it's all about hearsay, legends and hastily put together documentaries. Working myself in the construction building, I know very well many takes a lot of liberties with their work, but rarely in such a dramatic way. Who knows? Anyway, these stories are funny.
I always liked the way Chelmsford 123 dug deep to get a full analysis of the Romano British culture. But I fear Sailormatlac you may need to Google the relevant documentaries to get the full picture of their work.
@@twotone3070 Thanks for pointing out these documentaries. Don't know why Romano British culture is so fascinating, but it is.
I remember that series didn't the architect justify the road with the saying Curvy is pervy, straight is great..
9:38 They couldn't possibly build that road straight, there is a fence! But seriously, thanks for uploading. I was pinned to my monitor for almost 13 minutes flat. Very interesting content!
Where's my batman.....with the wire cutters? Who's the idiot who cut that man's fence?
The algorithm just brought me to your channel. It’s fabulous. Looking forward to seeing more. 👍
Welcome Mr Ed. 226 more videos to go. Enjoy.
Wow, fascinating! Worthy of a watch. I love how you guys put this together and the research. Very entertaining and educational as well. Thanks!
Love the video. I tend towards the idea that the straight way over the hill was the original path, mainly for foot and horseback traffic, while the kink developed over time as being more suitable for heavier loads, wagons etc, and probably more often usable in bad weather. So the kink prevailed. Just a small point about your text at 1.45 … I think it should be "cite" rather than "Site".
Much clearer this time round, the lines either side of the pathways really helped show what you were seeing in person 👍🏻
Thanks Adam
You guys have a great standup comedy act. Cheers
Grew up in england but am now back in the states where I was born. My favorite quote is that the biggest difference between england and the u.s. is that in england they think 200 miles is a long way in the u.s. they think 200 years is a long time.
Loved your intro. Very interesting vlog. Fascinating stuff. Thank you
It would be interesting to know what the landscape was like at the time the Roman Road was being constructed. It is tempting to assume that this would have been a mix of woodland and open fields as per today, but I suspect it would have been very different. If the bottom of the valley had been dense woodland or seriously waterlogged, then the intended course may have been abandoned as being too difficult. Perhaps the direct line passing so close to the hill fort is also significant.
Great editing by the way. I loved the presenter jump cuts. Just watch out for those branches ...
Throw in beavers, continuously flooding your road.
Roman roads were built through all conditions, such a terrain feature would not stop them, they had egineered contingencies for marshes that did not require going around them.
@@SergeantSquared Even modern day roads in marshland require a lot of upkeep. Quite possible the maintenance support in the region was stretched, and someone made the command decision to move the road.
@@Colinpark I wasn't arguing. I don't want to make you mad. You could be using this time to watch more Roman road videos.
@@SergeantSquared Not mad at all, I used to review bridge and road construction in Northern British Columbia and the Yukon. Trying to keep a road maintained in a swamp is a lot of work, particularity if there are beavers around. Which I suspect that in roman times, beavers were far more common?
Ya‘ll are having so much fun I love it
Fascinating stuff. As a relative local (Newbury) I drive around this area quite a bit to give the kids a taste of the wonderful countryside on the doorstep. They love seeing all the ancient monuments nearby. Really interesting content and really well presented. Love the overlays and projections. Outstanding work.
American here. What ancient monuments nearby? Thanks.
There's a similar kink in a Roman road I used to use in northern France. It was done to cross a sharp valley, without steep gradients.
Great Britain: Map Men
United Kingdom: Map Couple
I did say that this road was originally in a straight (ish) line last time your were there. The "almost immediate" deviation could have been made for many different reasons but I think "time" is important to consider here. The original straight route may have been in use for say 20 or 40 or 70 years (that's quite a long time) but the deviation maybe have been in use for say 200 years. that's a lot longer. We're talking about 2500 year old Roman roads. When they built them, 10 years in the future for them was probably a long time. I really feel "time" is the key to this one.
Really good point Robin. Its easy to just assume that we are looking at one snapshot period.
A bit like upgrading to a smart motorway (sorry, couldn't resist).
Awesome. Thank you. Exploring...always so much fun. Layers of history to be found . I remember rediscovering an abandoned road up high in some very rugged bush in NZ when were trapping opposums( pests over here) . It was the original road into a remote (at the time valley) In less than 50 years it had been almost forgotten. It was very exciting. Then we have you guys who are dealing with thousands of years.. incredible!
I bloody love youtube when its feeding me stuff like this! Great to share in your nerdy passion!
Roman Roads are strange beasts. We think of them as being very long and very straight, but that's just a result of an open landscape with no obstructions. Someone walking from point A to point B will go as directly as possible, as you pointed out earlier, the kink is actually the worst way around in terms of directness. But the actual thing about Roman Roads that really defines them, is that they were built by the military, for the military. So, they liked to stick to the top of a ridge wherever possible so they could see their enemy and avoid being ambushed, they would turn, but only at the highest point of the hill so they can have the best possible view of the surrounding landscape, in short they were built for the best strategic advantage as much as they were for speed and directness. The problem I see with the direct route at this location isn't that it goes into the valley, but that it continues along the valley between two hills under the ramparts of a hill fort. It's the perfect place to get your legion ambushed and destroyed.
I suggest that although it may have been in use during the Roman period, that it isn't a Roman Road but an ancient trackway, from a time where walking directly was the best way to travel between A and B.
Makes me wonder that if in the height of the dry summer, drone footage might show up parch marks where the road ran through the fields.
Yes, you are spot-on there, have taken people flying myself during August droughts just for that very purpose - there is a microlight school not that far away who would love to help!
@@drdoolittle5724 seconded/thirded
Ivan Margary did a lot more than just catalogue the Roman roads. For example, he financed the very expensive excavation of the fabulous Roman palace at Fishbourne, near Chichester in Sussex during the 1960s. I was at the official opening of the site where he was present, and if I remember correctly his name was pronounced with the accent on the first syllable (a bit like Margaret), not as you said it. A great piece of research by the pair of you, and a pity that there was no definite conclusion. Carry on the good work!
You are quite correct about the mispronunciation. The work of Margary does not get the credit it deserves though this was not always the case. Plenty of critics but I am not one of them. He mostly gets it right and I do not get an attitude when he doesn't. When there is a comparable body of work then maybe some of that criticism can be justified. Till then he remains at the heart of the subject for better or worse.
Now that Time Team is back in production, perhaps they should have a look at the site. Geophys might be able to see something.
Would love to see that happen.
Would make a great assignment for a group of geo-something students !
I agree this would be perfect for time team. It has all the elements of what goes into a time team episode. An area not excavated before. A mystery to solve. Some physical evidence supporting the theory. Clearly historical. Explores area of interest not discussed on a prior episode. You should contact them directly as this is how they decide what projects get approved as episodes.
@@Denusa I think ideas need to be submitted through their Patreon.
I was going to suggest the same. During lockdown I've been watching a lot of their episodes, and this does seem like something right up their alley. Or road, in this case.
Great video. I remember cycling along Chute Causeway when I lived in Hampshire.
It's a gorgeous route
I love the way you both swap over explaining what's going on. More videos should do this as it shows both men and women can take an interest and explain things that otherwise might just stereotypically appeal to one gender.
So interesting! The maps are a great resource and your research thorough ! And the drone shots really bring it all together!
The modern OS map gives a hint. The slope was quite steep and would have been tricky for horse drawn wagons especially in bad weather. Perhaps the deviation was to avoid the worst of the slope.
A more modern example of this is a turnpike built in New Hampshire (US) in the 1700s that was relatively straight, but in my neighborhood it takes a loop to avoid a steep slope and then returns to its straight course. A local historian explained that it was originally built in a straight line, but farmers complained that it was too steep for their wagons, so it was rerouted to make the slope more gentle.
it’s also a preexisting route, so why build a completely new road over steep terrain when you have a good route already? it’s also tough to attack the road from above as you’re at a disadvantage because of the same terrain preventing a mass attack against a heavily armed group of soldiers
The Roman road at Wraxall (A37 Shepton Mallet) is incredibly steep with a 15% gradient, I'm not sure they were that bothered.
@@therealunclevanya it probably depends on the nature of the loads traversing the road.
Rebecca is very cute and English. Really enjoying these shows on the Roman influence upon the English country side.
You are a such good team.
Nice, funny and informative to watch. :)
Greatings from Germany
Thanks Felix
By looking at you and Martin Zero, I know way more about England then I know about Sweden where I live... :-D
Intriguing. And mystifying. And entertaining. Thank you.
This video topic had my attention for the rest of the day! I agree with some of the other commenters, about the terrain. So if we could scroll back the landscape, two things would stand out at the point where Hunderford Lane ends. Facing the Romans would have been a forest growing out of very wet marshland - hence the long causeway that had already been constructed - and, I suspect that the approach may have been lower, so the scarp slope facing them may have been taller, and closer to a 500 ft cliff. It is unthinkable that no-one had been sent ahead to scout, so that dear chap would have found a marsh on the other side of the hill, too, and another valley. The cut that you found may have been the approach to a substantial jetty for moorings, so that when the valley was totally flooded, it was navigable by boat towards the causeway and the farm. (Also possibly a place to go fishing.) If you look at where the nearest farm buildings are located today, they are all at a similar elevatvion, suggesting that building lower down was impractical. No doubt an archaeological dig would make a host of fascinating finds.
Just re looked at the OS map on my pad. Looking on satellite, you can clearly see a shadow going straight from tidcombe down towards the southern section of the road, and a short bit up from the Andover side towards tidcombe. Looks to me like they started each end, saw how hilly it was, changed the route for easier gradients and the 2 short bits were abandoned.
Pretty much my thoughts too
Fascinating! Thanks for sharing and job well done. :)
As I'm French by descent although many centenaries ago I agree most roads in France run straight especially from Nantes to Angers which is as straight as an arrow. Keep going. I wish my late history Tutor Kevin Jolly was still with us he'd have been fascinated. RIP Sir
French roads are far superior today than UK roads. Dont know how they do it but they've sorted 'the knack".
In America we have 16,17, and 1800’s historical places, you guys have 500 b.c. spots, super jealous. Happy trails
Thanks very much for this fascinating update.
Thanks Derek.
watching your video i came up with an idea, at the end you said maybe they built it in a straight line but later maybe changed it, could it be that the romans built this nice straight road with the terrace but the locals and troops marching with horse and carts all of them combined maybe found that the terrace the road followed was maybe too steep in winter carts could slip down the gradient or lose their wares they were transporting same with the military maybe losing valuable military equipment to the steepness of the hill. so they decided to follow the smooth base of the hill around it then reconnect with the road on the other side? or eve after the romans left the locals couldnt keep afford to repair the terrace so they used and easier cheaper to repair road. just a thought let me know what you think. love the videos though great work.
Roman road builders mantra " straight is great, curvy is pervy" ( Chelmsford 123 series) 🤣
One of the best yet! Keep on with the Stirling performances. And, keep on with the health precautions... would really hate to lose even one episode.
Paul M. Portland, Oregon.
Interesting groundwork, and love the talking head switches for the narration.
Twas fun editing that
It's nice that you've found each other...
When you mentioned "dig" my mind went to Time Team as they are coming back soon with all new episodes! Wouldn't a trench put across the roman road and Grim's ditch be interesting! Great Video!
What I really like about this is that they respected the land owners rights to the land and were careful not to trespass, from what I understand about the UK is that it's not really illegal to trespass unless you interfere with the lawful activities done on the land. They still respected that and asked before walking around on the property despite there not being much of a punishment (as far as I know, I'm not a legal expert, just someone with British friends).
I do a lot of hiking and photography while hiking, I'm always very respectful about asking the people who might own the land before I do things, so long as those people are available and not obviously ok with it.
Hi, I just found your channel by accident, and am very pleased to have done so. Great teamwork and a great video. Very interesting. I recently moved house and now live right next to a 'minor' Roman road which is for the most part elevated above the surrounding fields. It's very difficult to find on maps and appears not to have been documented much at all. It is wooded, and has a more 'modern' 'B' road running alongside it, which is itself called 'Roman Road'. Of course, the ancient route was probably being used before the Romans. The ground for miles around is pretty much entirely flat, but 100m or so from our house the land and both Roman and modern roads, drop steeply and there's a natural spring before the land rises again. Both roads start at a major Roman town, pass beside the spring, (with the Roman road ALMOST passing THROUGH it, then continue for a mile or so before APPARENTLY disappearing at a small village. HOWEVER, the modern 'Roman Road' has a kink in it. Intrigued, I looked on Google Earth, and I could see a dark strip running across a ploughed field in direct continuation of the original Roman road and it appears to end on the banks of a narrow river, although of course, that river will have meandered over the millennia, but not by a huge amount. The villages around and about have Roman and Saxon origins. I can't see any further signs of the Roman road continuing onwards after the river, but I imagine it did. There is a 'Salt Way' or 'Lane' not too far beyond, and if I understand correctly, that was most likely used by the Romans to transport salt from Worcestershire to the south coast for export. My question is............ what are the chances that the 'spring' near me, and the 'crossing' at the river were actually the sites of Pagan, and then Roman temples? It seems odd that the Roman road should pass directly through this quite steep and very localized 'dip' in the land, where there is a spring.
The spring would have been an important waypoint for travelers to get fresh drinking water
I just watched this video and have to say, this is the very first ever video by you two that I have seen and I thoroughly enjoyed it! Why am I here?
Well, sometimes I just get a thought in my head and I fancy going off on a tangent and this afternoon, after seeing a TV programme about ancient Rome and the building that have been found underneath the streets, at some points you are able to go underground by a couple of stories in depth and look at, and walk into a whole ancient group of buildings or a street or large building, literally built and stil standing underneath where another building was built directly on the top of it! Anyway, I found this to be very fascinating and I suddenly was faced with the realisation that my knowledge of the ancient Rome city and ancient Romans was so severely lacking that I immediately felt the need to start filling in this gaping hole in my knowledge! I typed into youtube 'roman roads in Britain' as a starting point of interest. I ended up right here at your video.
I am subscribing now.
Thank you, you are great presenters and will help me to fill some holes!
Wonderful. Always love to know where people found us. Enjoy the channel. Lots more roman roads to come.
@@pwhitewick
JOKE TELLER:) "Hey, ARE there any more of THOSE Roman ROADS?
Road SELLERS AY YEAH! COMING STRAIGHT UP!!
Your proposed route would have been extremely difficult during the wet times. I propose they built it as you suspect, but quickly rerouted the road after continual problems with drainage.
Thanks, very well done & entertaining. The roman road mystery was one of my entry point to your channel, so much appreciated to see you revisiting that place. Did you ever check for signs of the old road coming from the north to the kink?
Frustratingly there is no lidar. On top of that nothing on Google maps or anything obvious on the ground.
I laughed way too hard at the "Wobbly" at 0:49
Superb. Thank you. Love the humour too. :)
Always interesting and appreciated - Thanks 🙂
Thank you for another interesting video, I hope you both have been fine. Looking forward to seeing some more informative videos
I would love to join you on one of your adventures. You always find good walks with lots of history.
Clearly there was a roman transport caff on chute causeway, like the one at silbury hill.
This is the first video of yours that I’ve seen. I’m 2 minutes in and already subscribed
Very interesting. Thank you for your efforts.
I do not know if anyone in the comments have mentioned this...BUT, how about doing some metal detecting in the farmers field, if the road was there, there should be Roman coins, etc under the farm land... They do that all over the farms in the UK... 👍
A couple yes... its a very good idea.
Thanks for this. I saw your earlier video on this subject. I didn't say anything, but I could not quite see what you were seeing. It is much clearer this time.
Always enjoy your videos. I too seem to get attacked by branches and things LOL! Interesting to see where the old Roman roads went and knowing why there was a deviation in the road. May be as you point out the lay of the land made it easier to go around especially with transporting goods and equipment perhaps. It is interesting to see where old roads and pathways went and what settlements were along the way, all part of our history. Thank you again.
Thanks Andrea. Yup that was about the fifth time that day as well
Or not knowing... 💦
My new favourite channel
Awesome video! You two are a great pair
The deviation looks like a later road going round the boundary of an early deer park which were often roughly oval. You can see most of the boundary on the OS map. Roman roads cross deer parks elsewhere including Ryknield Street at Sutton Park, Sutton Coldfield. At Ongar Park in Essex and Hexgrave Park near Southwell, Nottinghamshire, there were hatches or gates where the road entered the park.
Hi both, great video, and so interesting.
I guess it could be something as simple as a Roman road improvement. The hill is quite a feature of the landscape there, so maybe the original road went over the hill and the newer one went round as the gradients were more favourable to the army and any wagons.
Years ago I remember working as a coach driver and we always used to point out interesting things in a journey. I used to tell our passengers that you could tell where the Romans camped at night when they were building there roads. In the daytime the road would be perfectly straight, then the construction teams would camp out and have a good meal and a few drinks. Next morning, still a bit worse for wear from the night before the first few miles of road would be a bit wobbly until they all sobered up. Yeah silly I know, but it passed the journey for everyone.
I was talking about this with a largely American group on a writer's forum. They only really knew straight roads from a USA perspective. I told them that they have that little curve every so often, right? Yup, it's so we stay awake! - It's the same here - the chariots would build up so much speed coming down from the North they had a massive sand trap, in case, and this is the detour.
Okay, I'm evil.
Well done for the research!! Two points you need to consider about Roman roads and Trackways of the past (not found in text books sadly!!) The original (pre-Roman Roads) were Dykes (like Grimes - much older than 500 BCE) these were cut to the topography of the landscape which was much wetter in the past than today - as water table levels have significantly altered over the last 5,000 years.
Dykes are ditches and banks and are 'fairly' straight in nature (Offa and Wansdyke are classic) at a later date (when the dykes dried up) the banks were used as trackways as they are raised (above the mud) and follow to pre-roman settlements. When the Romans came (when available) they reused these dykes (ancient trackways) and these are clearly seen in Wansdyke were 30% of the proposed Dyke is a Roman road on top of the Dyke.
Your 'kink' is the result of misidentification and an old dyke. These dykes link to paleochannels of the past and your farm valley was one of these and hence the confusion and lack of Lidar evidence (the valley was a big river in the past) and even in Roman times far too wet to place a road - so they followed Grimes around the valley or they built a wooden bridge - which has now disappeared (post holes would still be found if excavated)?
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I don’t believe the valley contained a big river - Hippenscombe is a chalk valley in porous rock. These valleys formed during the ice ages, apparently, but weren’t eroded by flowing water.
LiDAR is amazing! It makes me smile when Americans talk about how *old* some thing is. A century or two is simply *ancient* 😹 in the states; you simply don’t get that sense of history that you do in Europe. Walking a road that has existed for millennia, following in the footsteps of people who lived and had the same wants and needs and are long since dust… there’s just something wonderful and melancholy about it.
Leave it to a European to think no one was in America until a few hundred years ago. They have a long history of showing up places, taking over and pretending no one was already living there.
Never been to _New_ England, then?
Another interesting video Paul and Rebecca. Hope you’re recovering well and look forward to seeing your next video!Take Care both of you 👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks Phil. Almost back to full speed
I've just found this and I am fascinated that someone is as curious about the Chute Causeway as I was when I cycled this area over forty years ago. I now live in Italy but miss exploring ancient British tracks immensely. My particular project was tracing Roman stuff around Leicester, especially Gartree Road, Via Devana (?) as it is now identified as. I will follow your progress from now on.
I reckon that you're right that the roman road was built straight and their mind was later changed. As for why I guess we will never know but it seems most likely the inclines caused a hassle for traffic , especially troops with heavy equipment ect, as you said, and so the diversion was created fairly early on to flatten it out. I agree that something like this is odd as the lack of foresight is unusual for Romans but it doesn't mean mistakes were never made. Just think you could be walking in evidence of some roman road planner having a really bad day a few thousand years go 😅 anyway it seems to wrap everything up nicely and I believe you should be confident in the idea you've solved it.
Looking at the contour lines on the modern OS map the change might have been to avoid the worst of the slope.
Maybe a change in (political) leaders around the time they were to cross the Acres ? Politics meddling with sound engineering is not a modern problem.
A ancien Roman road in Spain, very well preserved, very well made and that crossed a mountain pass, with monoliths or rock posts indicating its edge for when it was covered by snow, with small bridges to jump over the torrents, which currently It is used for the massive transfer of cattle between summer pastures in the mountains and winter pastures in the plains. : th-cam.com/video/YBM-p0uNxk0/w-d-xo.html
Really fascinating! I enjoying learning about something I really have no idea about, those Romans eh 😂
Go to the other end and see if there is evidence of a deviation onto the straight line. Just a thought. However, in archaeology, if you don't know why something has occurred or what something is, you always fall back on - 'it would have been for ritual reasons'. (passed my exams with that!!)
that could have got you a job with Time Team ;-) but you are right - work from both ends and see what there is.
Once again well researched and planned. A credible conclusion.
I grew up a few miles from RAF Scampton in Lincolnshire, it's on the A15 which also follows an old Roman Road - the section from Scampton to the M180 is the longest stretch of straight road in the UK. Curiously, it also has a very similar bulge/kink which was introduced when the runway at the RAF base was lengthened during the Cold War. You can clearly see the old vs. new route by hovering in satellite view via Google maps.
Love this vid! First time watching. Cool seeing a couple like this. Def subscribing. Don't really think the kink is weird. Looks like its going around the hills like the road on the east side of haydown hill.
Welcome Fabian
That makes sense that they built it then changed their mind. That bit of road was steep. It makes loads of sense to follow the already existing road around the hill.
Pretty much the only logical conclusion.
totally righteous ... old roads upon old roads right under your feet ...
I bet it was built over a relatively high-quality pre-existing road. Since going straight over the hill might have been difficult. Another option is they were keeping a defensive perimeter around a fortification to protect from the East.
There were accessory roads around many villages and towns. It gave large columns and migratory groups a chance to go around without having to enter. Drovers, soldiers, guys in wagons hauling tin or wool, would live to have a way around, that let them retain their marching order and provided camp sites not in the middle of an urban center.
This is a theory I've not considered at all. Hmmmmm. Now you've got me thinking.