Seeing the video, one can’t help but think also about the thousands who suffered a similar fate during WW2. The main difference then was the reality that it happened pretty much each day, over and over again. Most of those men fully expected they’d meet this kind of terrifying end - plummeting out of control with no chance of survival. Yet they still strapped in, went aloft, and did their best to the final measure. Oh how we appreciate and respect them for so bravely and honorably doing their duty!
@@fawnlliebowitz1772 how about the honor of the great Donald Dump💩💩 Oh wait, he got out because he had a wart on his big toe or something like that. Very honorable😂 I 😂😂😂😂😂
Very, very sad. I started taking my son to air shows when he was small. Now he’s 41. We’ve seen almost all of the WW2 planes that are still around (flying,or non-flying) We appreciate all of the people that give their time and hard work to preserve and fly these pieces of History. Rest in peace and respect.
I knew a man who was on - call for this . They are ex fireman , soldiers and policeman . They live all over USA. Get on the plane to get to the job.....
They died mercifully swiftly doing the thing that they loved most. May the Lord grant their families the strength to endure their loss. I am heartbroken.
Makes me think what happened that made the single engine plane hit the b-17. Did he no see the plane? Did he lose control of his plane? Was there mechanical failure?
@@carlingas666: hey Carlos, probably the first place to investigate is medical records of the gentlemen/pilots who were flying each plane. Just my guess you'd be surprised what would be found. --js
From midair collison to ground impact was 3 seconds. They had just about 3 seconds to realize something bad was about to happen. I can't imagine just gliding along with no issues, hearing and feeling an impact and then in 3 seconds, just gone...RIP
@@matt59fire thats what i thought too but it looks like the forward part of the cockpit was still attached so i'd say it's more accurate that the tail was cut off from the fuselage.
Yeah. From what I remember, the P63 sheared off the entire tail section of the B-17 on impact. I’m guessing it was the forward half that exploded when it hit the ground.
@@HunterCloverman Fuselage was cut across, plus the B-17 isnt that large compared to the P-63. You also have to take the impact and post-crash fire into account.
"At first, I saw several planes flying around at close proximity. I thought to myself, if that is standard to their flight schedule then, why in the world would a smaller aircraft just plunge into the side fuselage of the B-17? When there is no traffic control, this is the horrible consequence. Seeing these two planes collied into each other, just broke my heart for those lives lost. There is no reasonable excuse for this tragedy."
THere is absolutely NO excuse for what the P63 pilot did. He was told to get ahead of his group and take the lead. He should have done so, sure, but he never changed his altitude, he should have CLIMBED above both parade routes. A quick decision that ended his and five more lives. Ive' read a LOT of comments saying that the "air boss" for this event is a dufus. I"m starting to get an idea why that is being said, but still, the pilot in command of an aircraft is the sole person responsible for carrying out all aspects of the flight safely
@@NihongoGuy The P63 pilot probably never even knew that the B-17 was there since he was banked in the turn and had no visiblity... while its possible to have so many aircraft in the air at the same time i feel like there where to many in close proximity for it to be safe...
@@eriksimca9409 Basic rule of formation flying: If you are closing too fast on your lead plane, you MUST pull under and outside of the lead plane - but NEVER attempt an inside climb to miss the lead aircraft, because the inertia will take you right into it. The problem, in this case, was that th bombers and fighters were all flying at nearly the same altitude - approximately 500' above the deck, so there was no escape route for the P63 to roll under and outsde the B-17 ... Assuming that the pilot of the P-63 could even see the bomber, which I doubt. IMO, it appears the P63's pilot lost situational awareness, in his effort to catch up with the leading P-51 Mustangs. This accident is just too heartbreaking. It may be the end for these types of shows, unless radical changes are mandated as to how they are performed.
This happened just ten days before the 59th anniversary of another tragedy in Dallas. Heartfelt condolences to the families of the victims and the entire warbird community.
My heart sunk when i saw this my thoughts and prays went with them at their final moment for both of the planes. i was the only survivor of a head-on where my workmate did not make nor did the young man who lost control of his car, i hold no grudge towards this young man, it just a time and place that beckons us all at one time. RIP to all the flight crew.
This is a sad incident that shows how vigilant all those involved have to be to prevent this from happening again. It is never one thing, but several events together that cause this kind of wreckage. Let us Pray for the lives lost and for all that went beforehand that have allowed us to live the life we lead now.
My very deepest thoughts and sympathy to the deceased and their families. And my deepest respect to all the first aiders at these horrific tragedies. 🙏
Unfortunate, to be sure. Thoughts to the families. Loss of life and of these aircraft is avoidable. P-63 lost situational awareness. His attitude and position relative to the B-17 made for disaster. Think of it like getting on the freeway and the merging traffic was in your blind spot. We've all experienced being surprised by a tractor trailer getting on the freeway... But aviation demands a higher cost for surprises.
Is it required air traffic control for the Air show like this ? Even though I'm not relative of 6 victims, I don't even knew them, but it's so sad that no words can describe. The only 2 things that might console their loved one are they didn't suffer long and they died whilst doing what they loved. My condolences to their families, friends and fans.
They play their war games with impunity. It is an air show. The controllers of it and the pilots decide what they are going to do. It is between them and evidently someone messed up. I expect the guy who hit the B-17 in the side....T.bone......not cool. Well, everyone is dead now.....Is it time to stop these airshows ? .
I feel like this was absurdly negligent. Like, how in the world is this even possible? Would make more sense that he hit another plane his size while banking left and unable to have a visual of it. But, the flying fortress is HUGE! B-17 never changed it's path of flight and should have never had to worry about another aircraft coming into it's direct airspace, let alone hit it. During airshows, are traffic control towers not utilized because of the planned close proximity of planes during maneuvers? So many questions but yet so little answers. There may never be a definitive cause and left with just speculation. So sad. RIP to all 6 lives lost. Ugh, my heart breaks over this.
in a video of the accident the p63 can be seen in a flight circuit behind 2 p51s, the p63 seems to be going too fast to stay in line with the p51s and takes a wider turn, near the end of this turn the p63 makes a left bank to get back in line with the p51 in front of him and thats when he collides with the b17 which is in its own flight circuit with other bombers.Its worth noting that the p63 has very poor visibility compared to other planes because of the big nose.With the p63 being slightly above the b17 and making a left bank away from the b17 there is probably no way the p63 pilot could have seen the b17 or vice versa.
ATC Towers don't run or "control" the air show, they generally hand over that to an Air Boss. Air Boss orchestrates the show, does not direct each individual plane as to what to do and where to be, nor try separate them from other planes. Yep, this was a bad one.
My understanding is that the P63 T-boned the B-17. Not at an exact 90 degree angle, but close enough. Because of the poor forward visibility of the P63 and the fact that it was banking left while the B-17 flying to its right, I can see how the P63 pilot never saw that giant plane.
So sad! I can’t even imagine investigating a wreck like this one. You have to go over ever single piece and one can only imagine what you will find and see.. the only solace I can see is that they died doing what they loved to do and it was quick with no suffering.
The video seemed to focus on the bomber which appeared to be flying straight and level at the time of the collision. Is there any indication at all that the bomber crew or any defect in the plane itself contributed to this? If there was any mechanical failure, it would be in the P-63. After a year of investigation, it seems obvious that the NTSB will place the blame squarely on the pilot of the fighter plane for failure to maintain separation.
Sad? Of course. But how many of us are going to leave this world doing what we love? I hope I do. I dread waiting in a hospital bed with some illness for my end to come. RIP guys....
What a dreadful accident! My condolences to relatives, friends and loved ones of all the occupants of the aircraft. Looking here at the positions of the wreckage one can appreciate how this could have been even worse, had any large components fallen on the road, or nearby habitation. Small consolation however. I do believe that this will have an impact on the conduct of airshow flights, with new and stricter regulations regarding relative heights of aircraft and spacing.
B-17 Flying Fortress and P-63 King Cobra was the WW2 legendary planes but now it collided 6 pilots we declare their memories of those who died in the crash RIP
I don't think any of them knew what hit them. The P63 was making a high g banked turn, this likely put the B17 in a blind spot behind the engine cowl and fuselage. The P63 pilot was also likely focused on a ground reference or other aircraft. Some speculation but this makes the most sense to me considering his experience.
Thank you lord that this plane wasn't full if people traveling to see their loved ones for the holidays. I'm sure people did pass away and I am so sorry for their families.
Aircrafts with such dissimilar flight characteristics, such as fighters and bombers, flying at the same altitude in circuits, with different bank angles, need an accurate, previously determined flight plan. Something in the pre-flight planning unfortunately went wrong. My deepest condolences to the families of the fallen pilots.
They do, and they were not flying the same circuit. Ive seen this reenactment live before and the fighters are not in the same circuit. Something went horribly wrong here.
It seems like the Cobra just came out of his circuit due to speed and could not see the B17 as he thought he could move back at a wider position to take time to slow down with the Mustang traveling at a much lower rate of speed in front of his original position.
Honest question, What are the chances of surviving this for someone sitting on the tail gunner's position? The rear appears to have fallen on its "front" so there's a huge crumple zone ahead. I don't know if any of the crew was sitting there at the time of impact though
I’ve also been wondering this, considering it is one of the pieces of wreckage that sustained the least amount of damage. However, despite the fact that this portion of the fuselage suffered no damage from the ensuing fireball; the sudden deceleration from a fall of that height must also do a heavy number on the human body. Think ruptured organs/torn arteries, etc. but if anyone was going to survive it would most likely have been there I think..
The fact that there's is what looks like a runway right next to the crash sight is crazy. I think that was what looked like went wrong. The B-17 was going to land and P-15 was supposed to fly over it, but it was timed it wrong
This tragedy could have been avoided by having a safer flight schedule. There is no need to have P-51's, the P-36, and the B-17 all in the air at the same time. All of the planes have terrible visibility. Im sorry for the pilot's, crew, and for their grieving family's. May all who passed Rest Peacefully flying higher and faster than ever did here on earth.
I believe it was a demonstration of WW2 operations, where these planes did all fly together. Fighters have always escorted bombers. Not sure what we t wrong.
@@654Crossman I read a statement that the fighter was attempting to re-join the formation, coming in too fast so banked to slow down, lost sight of the B17 and hit it
They routinely flew in WW2 escorting said bombers so obviously they were flying with each other at the same time in the past in far more dangerous conditions. In this case it was a demostration of WW2 operations between escorts and the bombers. They flight schedule was safe, the problem was the P-63 flying to fast at one point.
It looks like a lack of planning and briefing and it probably was but keep in mind no one crossed the dead line which is prior planning so no spectators were killed. Complicated maneuvers are also conducted prior to show center adding a safety margin. There is a lot of safety planning in air shows that was followed preventing a much greater tragedy. As a spectator you should know that procedures were being followed to keep you safe in fact the P-63 may have been turning inside the B17 to avoid flying over a line that would have taken him closer to the spectators
This has realy upset me, we have one here in the u.k, she's called the Sally Bee, she stared in the 1990 film "Mephis Bell". Beautiful, gracefully aircraft.
Just a few miles from my home, on Jun 13, 1943, 3 B17s were practicing formations and 2 of the 3 collided resulting in the death of 11 airmen. A very famous accident called the crash of the flying Sioux. RIP all WW2, and commemorative casualties.
What's amazing is that it was only 2 weeks ago but it seems like an eternity. I have to say it, if the Pilot of the P-63 had over 34k hours training, then he needed another 34k hours to learn NOT to run into B-17s while in full flight. Don't mean to be mean, but a Beautiful B-17 that accomplished many bombing missions in WW2 was destroyed and the 5 innocent lives in there were lost, because of his error. Tragic...
As a boy I flew along with my father in a high wing Cessna 172. I really enjoyed looking down at the ground below. Then the club he was in upgraded to a low wing Piper. I did not enjoy it as much because the wing obstructed the view below. The pilot in the low wing plane that crashed into the B17 could not see what was below him.
This tragic accident was entirely preventable, I could not believe when I saw the video, how many aircraft of different sizes and speeds were operating in a very confined area of airspace. I have been attending air shows for over 45 years and have seen some amazing warbird formations over the years. But I have never seen a hotchpotch of types operating at a fairly low level like we see in the various videos. To my eye the smaller and faster fighters should be at least 750ft higher when turning, than the slower and less agile bombers, it looks like a free for all, with very little margin for error. Visibility from most warbirds is not great at the best of times, especially in a turning fighter aircraft. It would be interesting to see what the safety briefing said about the speed and separation protocol of the various types during the display. I would very much doubt this type of sequence would be permitted in any European Air Show, I know the shows in the US have a bit less regulation, but I am sorry, this just looks like an accident waiting to happen. RIP to those who were lost, their families and friends, and also a shout out to the first aid and emergency services who responded to this awful situation.
But the Commemorative [formerly Confederate] Air Force has been flying these shows for years. Shouldn't they be the experts on how to avoid events like this?
A trajectory proximity detection alert system on every flying aircraft would be an advantage. Quick auto direction changing software/hardware. Plus determine what safety protocols were not being followed, and what safety protocols can be added to help avoid another incident.
True. The people filming the B17 going overhead were in grave danger that if the collision was just a few seconds before, they would have been involved.
That b-17 is on of 9 airworthy aircraft that survived all of its missions in ww2 And the fact that that those 2 plains flew over my hose all the time makes this very saddening
This whole accident would've been averted if the airshow was held without the p63 which was notorious for having such bad visibility and just held with the b17 flying with a couple p47s
This is very sad, I'm sure at some point blame will laid. But more importantly what can be done for preventing this in future. It is educational and historical to see these birds fly. Not to ground them forever in a Museum.
It was the show coordinator on the ground who asked the King cobra to move ahead of the B-17. It was a bad timing call that led to the deaths of six crews. What is so sad is it was an avoidable accident. That is negligent.
Tragic accident. Pilot error P-63 over shot and lost sight of the B-17 , and or the B-17 was in the wrong position. Much respect for the men and women who help us remember Those who fought for the freedom of the whole world in WW2 🫡
I was watching some of the video and as a former United States Air Force aircraft mechanic someone who's always had a strong interest in investigating accidents and observing aircraft accidents I would say the fighter was completely at fault. In fact he should have been fired if this accident never occurred. You should have never ever flown over the mall parking lot. Since the 19 88 Ramstein Air Force Air Show accident, all aircraft flight paths need to be parallel to the audience and away from the audience. Any one time should any of the aircraft participants never ever fly to the audience or fly over the opposite side of the field over the audience into the flight path. Mistake number two that fighter that was flying and banked his wings left it completely hidden in obscured the bomber that was coming into view or excuse me coming into the flight path of the bomber so obviously he didn't see the bomber until probably it was too late and he collided into the tail. Had the fighter stayed in the flight path as the bomber, the bomber would have been in his flight path and the accident would have never occurred
It appears to me that the P-63 was closing on the B-17 much faster than he should’ve been, and that when realizing this the P-63 attempted to pull up and away from the B-17 … too late.
Sad footage but sadly I have a question? Your footage is basically focusing on the B-17 crash there was another airplane in this accident right? Past 4 minutes in this video you see the drone footage pulling away and to the left you can still see recognizable Wreckage from the cobra airplane? Why couldn’t we see any of that?
There is a wing between the b-17's tail an fuselage crater. Then the remaining fuselage section not far from the 17's left wing. A short clip of the kingcobra's nose section showing the twisted prop and nose gear.
This is very sad for the families and the men who worked very hard for maintaining a peice of aviation history. Rest in peace.
Indeed sad on many many different levels. Obviously the loss of life is #1 and #2 would be history and all that knowledge we lost.
Yeah, what about the 6 people that lost their lives?
@@kody3377: Them of course, Kody.
@@kody3377 that would be the men.. read the comment
Read the comment
Seeing the video, one can’t help but think also about the thousands who suffered a similar fate during WW2. The main difference then was the reality that it happened pretty much each day, over and over again. Most of those men fully expected they’d meet this kind of terrifying end - plummeting out of control with no chance of survival. Yet they still strapped in, went aloft, and did their best to the final measure. Oh how we appreciate and respect them for so bravely and honorably doing their duty!
Sadly today we have democraps that rarely serve honorably.
@@fawnlliebowitz1772 and republicans alike
@@clowncsc Tremendous shortage in no small part due to Dementia Joe.
@@fawnlliebowitz1772 Why make this political
@@fawnlliebowitz1772 how about the honor of the great Donald Dump💩💩 Oh wait, he got out because he had a wart on his big toe or something like that. Very honorable😂 I 😂😂😂😂😂
I send my condolences to the friends and loved ones of the aviators and other people involved in this terrible tragedy.
Okay 😂
Very, very sad. I started taking my son to air shows when he was small. Now he’s 41. We’ve seen almost all of the WW2 planes that are still around (flying,or non-flying) We appreciate all of the people that give their time and hard work to preserve and fly these pieces of History. Rest in peace and respect.
RIP to the lost souls; may their families be comforted during their grieving. Thank you for posting this informative video.
This hurts my soul deeply...condolences to the family...sigh
Whomever has the task of extracting the human remains out from the wreckage merits respect!
No remains ..incinerated......only bones and ashes sadly......
I was just thinking that... who knows how badly remains are tangled up or compressed under the rubble or even scattered away from impact... prayers 🙏
I knew a man who was on - call for this . They are ex fireman , soldiers and policeman .
They live all over USA.
Get on the plane to get to the job.....
@Bass N Brass is this true?
Pieces....organic bodies fall apart, like the metal the planes are made of. Just pieces.....
What a tragedy so sorry of the families and the the crews love from the uk
They died mercifully swiftly doing the thing that they loved most. May the Lord grant their families the strength to endure their loss. I am heartbroken.
Only plus side to the tragedy, is that it occurred over an open field, not that busy highway, or a neighborhood. Or the stadium crowd.
IOW, the established airshow SAFETY PROTOCOLS to protect spectators WORKED beautifully.
@@GracielaT-SatoCaptainMama Now all they need to do is work on the protocols that keep the planes from running into each other.
The poor guys in the B-17 never knew what hit them. 😪 RIP
They may have had an idea even if only for a moment. RIP
Understanding physics is the answer here. Mass and energy
Makes me think what happened that made the single engine plane hit the b-17. Did he no see the plane? Did he lose control of his plane? Was there mechanical failure?
@@carlingas666: hey Carlos, probably the first place to investigate is medical records of the gentlemen/pilots who were flying each plane. Just my guess you'd be surprised what would be found. --js
From midair collison to ground impact was 3 seconds. They had just about 3 seconds to realize something bad was about to happen. I can't imagine just gliding along with no issues, hearing and feeling an impact and then in 3 seconds, just gone...RIP
I'm amazed how much of the wreckage is still recognisable after that monumental collision and subsequent fire, horrible tragedy
Well it makes sense that the wings are somewhat intact. The wings are what ripped from the body of the b17 upon collision.
@@matt59fire thats what i thought too but it looks like the forward part of the cockpit was still attached so i'd say it's more accurate that the tail was cut off from the fuselage.
I agee. Why? Also no Impact hole?
Yeah. From what I remember, the P63 sheared off the entire tail section of the B-17 on impact. I’m guessing it was the forward half that exploded when it hit the ground.
@@HunterCloverman Fuselage was cut across, plus the B-17 isnt that large compared to the P-63.
You also have to take the impact and post-crash fire into account.
Just imagine how many times similar incidents occurred during training and combat missions in WWII.
At least those had a purpose besides making money and old over the hill pilots having fun.
@@sethtenrec absolutely.
So sad, this hurts.
"At first, I saw several planes flying around at close proximity. I thought to myself, if that is standard to their flight schedule then, why in the world would a smaller aircraft just plunge into the side fuselage of the B-17? When there is no traffic control, this is the horrible consequence. Seeing these two planes collied into each other, just broke my heart for those lives lost. There is no reasonable excuse for this tragedy."
It's an air show. Traffic control does not get involved with these maneuvers. They shut down the regular traffic. They take risks, for sure.....
THere is absolutely NO excuse for what the P63 pilot did. He was told to get ahead of his group and take the lead. He should have done so, sure, but he never changed his altitude, he should have CLIMBED above both parade routes.
A quick decision that ended his and five more lives.
Ive' read a LOT of comments saying that the "air boss" for this event is a dufus. I"m starting to get an idea why that is being said, but still, the pilot in command of an aircraft is the sole person responsible for carrying out all aspects of the flight safely
@@NihongoGuy The P63 pilot probably never even knew that the B-17 was there since he was banked in the turn and had no visiblity... while its possible to have so many aircraft in the air at the same time i feel like there where to many in close proximity for it to be safe...
@@eriksimca9409 Basic rule of formation flying: If you are closing too fast on your lead plane, you MUST pull under and outside of the lead plane - but NEVER attempt an inside climb to miss the lead aircraft, because the inertia will take you right into it. The problem, in this case, was that th bombers and fighters were all flying at nearly the same altitude - approximately 500' above the deck, so there was no escape route for the P63 to roll under and outsde the B-17 ... Assuming that the pilot of the P-63 could even see the bomber, which I doubt. IMO, it appears the P63's pilot lost situational awareness, in his effort to catch up with the leading P-51 Mustangs. This accident is just too heartbreaking. It may be the end for these types of shows, unless radical changes are mandated as to how they are performed.
Obviously the lack of ATC plays a significant role, too.
Thoughts and prayers to everyone involved/affected by this. So sad 😢 RIP from England!
This happened just ten days before the 59th anniversary of another tragedy in Dallas. Heartfelt condolences to the families of the victims and the entire warbird community.
I don’t think many people get it. But very keen observation.
What was the 59th anniversary of another tragedy? I'm in Illinois and not aware of it or what it involved. Thank you for answering this comment.
@@thisisme3238 JFK assassination.
This accident didn't happen in Dallas.
@@4rdF1Hunny ty
My heart sunk when i saw this my thoughts and prays went with them at their final moment for both of the planes. i was the only survivor of a head-on where my workmate did not make nor did the young man who lost control of his car, i hold no grudge towards this young man, it just a time and place that beckons us all at one time. RIP to all the flight crew.
Same
Prayers for their families 🙏
no, your heart SANK. when oh when will Americans learn English.
@@Hercules718 do you feel cool now?
It's sad day for the families of the pilots in a sad day for the men and women who restored and maintain those beautiful aircraft
Incredibly sad. Deep condolences to families and all friends!
This is a sad incident that shows how vigilant all those involved have to be to prevent this from happening again. It is never one thing, but several events together that cause this kind of wreckage. Let us Pray for the lives lost and for all that went beforehand that have allowed us to live the life we lead now.
This is a tragic accident, my heart goes out to everyone.
Thank you for airing this footage.
Rest in peace to everyone lost. Saying a prayer for friends and family of those we lost. Very sad
May they Forever Rest In Peace. My deepest condolences to all their families 🙏🙏
Extreme tragedy 😢 beyond COMPREHENSION
Actually fairly easy to comprehend. Fools flying around in worn out antique aircraft crashed. See how easy it was.
RIP ALL THAT PERISHED 🙏 Condolences to your family and friends at this difficult time. ✝️😥
very very sad for the families and there loved one's who lost there lives in this accident. may all 6 RIP.
My very deepest thoughts and sympathy to the deceased and their families. And my deepest respect to all the first aiders at these horrific tragedies. 🙏
Not only did they lose those people they lost a peace of history
If it was in Black & White the scene would look like something from WW2
When I first saw this on the news I thought the same thing.
Reminded me of that mid air collision scene from the movie ' Memphis Belle ' Such a tragic loss.
the fammilies my heart goes out to them all were professional aviators this was truly an accident
Who said it was an accident?
Unfortunate, to be sure. Thoughts to the families.
Loss of life and of these aircraft is avoidable.
P-63 lost situational awareness.
His attitude and position relative to the B-17 made for disaster.
Think of it like getting on the freeway and the merging traffic was in your blind spot.
We've all experienced being surprised by a tractor trailer getting on the freeway...
But aviation demands a higher cost for surprises.
May the Lord have mercy on their souls...I pray for all their family and friends❤🙏
Is it required air traffic control for the Air show like this ?
Even though I'm not relative of 6 victims, I don't even knew them, but it's so sad that no words can describe.
The only 2 things that might console their loved one are they didn't suffer long and they died whilst doing what they loved.
My condolences to their families, friends and fans.
They have briefings of what they are to do where to go
Is there TRAFFIC CONTROL at NASCAR races?
@@williamturner1517
You must be so _"smart"_ to NOT realize air traffic is different than car traffic 😂
Everything is a set routine so no air traffic control except when they are landing.
They play their war games with impunity. It is an air show. The controllers of it and the pilots decide what they are going to do. It is between them and evidently someone messed up. I expect the guy who hit the B-17 in the side....T.bone......not cool. Well, everyone is dead now.....Is it time to stop these airshows ? .
May they RIP. Prayers of support goes out to all involved
I feel like this was absurdly negligent. Like, how in the world is this even possible? Would make more sense that he hit another plane his size while banking left and unable to have a visual of it. But, the flying fortress is HUGE! B-17 never changed it's path of flight and should have never had to worry about another aircraft coming into it's direct airspace, let alone hit it. During airshows, are traffic control towers not utilized because of the planned close proximity of planes during maneuvers? So many questions but yet so little answers. There may never be a definitive cause and left with just speculation. So sad. RIP to all 6 lives lost. Ugh, my heart breaks over this.
in a video of the accident the p63 can be seen in a flight circuit behind 2 p51s, the p63 seems to be going too fast to stay in line with the p51s and takes a wider turn, near the end of this turn the p63 makes a left bank to get back in line with the p51 in front of him and thats when he collides with the b17 which is in its own flight circuit with other bombers.Its worth noting that the p63 has very poor visibility compared to other planes because of the big nose.With the p63 being slightly above the b17 and making a left bank away from the b17 there is probably no way the p63 pilot could have seen the b17 or vice versa.
P-63 is a tight cockpit, with poor visibility, just a horrible accident!
ATC Towers don't run or "control" the air show, they generally hand over that to an Air Boss. Air Boss orchestrates the show, does not direct each individual plane as to what to do and where to be, nor try separate them from other planes. Yep, this was a bad one.
My understanding is that the P63 T-boned the B-17. Not at an exact 90 degree angle, but close enough. Because of the poor forward visibility of the P63 and the fact that it was banking left while the B-17 flying to its right, I can see how the P63 pilot never saw that giant plane.
@@prussiaaero1802 There’s always
Coordination. Always.
So sad! I can’t even imagine investigating a wreck like this one. You have to go over ever single piece and one can only imagine what you will find and see.. the only solace I can see is that they died doing what they loved to do and it was quick with no suffering.
The video seemed to focus on the bomber which appeared to be flying straight and level at the time of the collision. Is there any indication at all that the bomber crew or any defect in the plane itself contributed to this? If there was any mechanical failure, it would be in the P-63. After a year of investigation, it seems obvious that the NTSB will place the blame squarely on the pilot of the fighter plane for failure to maintain separation.
Aviation is very unforgiving of mistakes, keep your head on a swivel. RIP to these airmen, condolences to their loved ones. 🙏
Sad? Of course. But how many of us are going to leave this world doing what we love? I hope I do. I dread waiting in a hospital bed with some illness for my end to come. RIP guys....
Breaks my heart.
What a dreadful accident! My condolences to relatives, friends and loved ones of all the occupants of the aircraft. Looking here at the positions of the wreckage one can appreciate how this could have been even worse, had any large components fallen on the road, or nearby habitation. Small consolation however. I do believe that this will have an impact on the conduct of airshow flights, with new and stricter regulations regarding relative heights of aircraft and spacing.
RIP to The Airman of Both Aircraft. Condolences to the Families. Let the NTSB do there jobs. They are some of the best.
Very difficult to see these pictures!! RIP.....
Those air shows will bring tragedy from time to time.
Memories to Ramstein (and many more)
I've seen THREE myself. Go enough times and you're bound to see something.
Sad loss. Thoughts/prayers for their families.
Who else came here to see the accident happen ?
B-17 Flying Fortress and P-63 King Cobra was the WW2 legendary planes but now it collided 6 pilots we declare their memories of those who died in the crash RIP
I don't think any of them knew what hit them. The P63 was making a high g banked turn, this likely put the B17 in a blind spot behind the engine cowl and fuselage. The P63 pilot was also likely focused on a ground reference or other aircraft. Some speculation but this makes the most sense to me considering his experience.
I wonder if any gopros survived the crash. There are usually several going in different directions during shows.
What did they edit? The bodies out of the video?
Thank you lord that this plane wasn't full if people traveling to see their loved ones for the holidays. I'm sure people did pass away and I am so sorry for their families.
Aircrafts with such dissimilar flight characteristics, such as fighters and bombers, flying at the same altitude in circuits, with different bank angles, need an accurate, previously determined flight plan.
Something in the pre-flight planning unfortunately went wrong.
My deepest condolences to the families of the fallen pilots.
Thanks captain
They do, and they were not flying the same circuit. Ive seen this reenactment live before and the fighters are not in the same circuit. Something went horribly wrong here.
same altitude in circuits to me that was a bad idea
It seems like the Cobra just came out of his circuit due to speed and could not see the B17 as he thought he could move back at a wider position to take time to slow down with the Mustang traveling at a much lower rate of speed in front of his original position.
Unqualified rich men should be prohibited from this type of foolish activity.
Once you see all views of these planes, a lot of damage to go through. Heavenly Father be with these families. 🙏✝️
Honest question, What are the chances of surviving this for someone sitting on the tail gunner's position? The rear appears to have fallen on its "front" so there's a huge crumple zone ahead. I don't know if any of the crew was sitting there at the time of impact though
all crew sandly past away. i dont think you would survive any where on that airplane after that crach
I would say nil.
That thought also crossed my mind ?
I’ve also been wondering this, considering it is one of the pieces of wreckage that sustained the least amount of damage.
However, despite the fact that this portion of the fuselage suffered no damage from the ensuing fireball; the sudden deceleration from a fall of that height must also do a heavy number on the human body. Think ruptured organs/torn arteries, etc.
but if anyone was going to survive it would most likely have been there I think..
The same odds of surviving a free fall from 500 feet.
The fact that there's is what looks like a runway right next to the crash sight is crazy. I think that was what looked like went wrong. The B-17 was going to land and P-15 was supposed to fly over it, but it was timed it wrong
The sadness you feel knowing people didn’t survive😢😢.
No one survives
This tragedy could have been avoided by having a safer flight schedule. There is no need to have P-51's, the P-36, and the B-17 all in the air at the same time. All of the planes have terrible visibility. Im sorry for the pilot's, crew, and for their grieving family's. May all who passed Rest Peacefully flying higher and faster than ever did here on earth.
I believe it was a demonstration of WW2 operations, where these planes did all fly together. Fighters have always escorted bombers. Not sure what we t wrong.
@@654Crossman I read a statement that the fighter was attempting to re-join the formation, coming in too fast so banked to slow down, lost sight of the B17 and hit it
They routinely flew in WW2 escorting said bombers so obviously they were flying with each other at the same time in the past in far more dangerous conditions. In this case it was a demostration of WW2 operations between escorts and the bombers. They flight schedule was safe, the problem was the P-63 flying to fast at one point.
Absolute tragedy RIP crew.🙏🙏
It looks like a lack of planning and briefing and it probably was but keep in mind no one crossed the dead line which is prior planning so no spectators were killed. Complicated maneuvers are also conducted prior to show center adding a safety margin. There is a lot of safety planning in air shows that was followed preventing a much greater tragedy. As a spectator you should know that procedures were being followed to keep you safe in fact the P-63 may have been turning inside the B17 to avoid flying over a line that would have taken him closer to the spectators
Seeing that forlorn B17 tail sitting so far away from the main wreckage really pulls at the heart strings! Absolute tragedy.
This has realy upset me, we have one here in the u.k, she's called the Sally Bee, she stared in the 1990 film "Mephis Bell". Beautiful, gracefully aircraft.
Just a few miles from my home, on Jun 13, 1943, 3 B17s were practicing formations and 2 of the 3 collided resulting in the death of 11 airmen. A very famous accident called the crash of the flying Sioux. RIP all WW2, and commemorative casualties.
Father in Heaven...I pray you put your loving caring arms around the family & friends of these dear souls.... 2nd Corinthians 1:3
What's amazing is that it was only 2 weeks ago but it seems like an eternity. I have to say it, if the Pilot of the P-63 had over 34k hours training, then he needed another 34k hours to learn NOT to run into B-17s while in full flight. Don't mean to be mean, but a Beautiful B-17 that accomplished many bombing missions in WW2 was destroyed and the 5 innocent lives in there were lost, because of his error. Tragic...
That's very true; the P-63 shouldn't have gotten in the way 🤔
Such a sad tragedy, RIP.
As a boy I flew along with my father in a high wing Cessna 172. I really enjoyed looking down at the ground below. Then the club he was in upgraded to a low wing Piper.
I did not enjoy it as much because the wing obstructed the view below.
The pilot in the low wing plane that crashed into the B17 could not see what was below him.
Or. Maybe he had a medical problem.
Two beautiful planes and six wonderful people lost too soon. I wish their families healing and love. Maybe someone can build replicas for a monument.
Thank goodness they at least landed in that field in the airport. Could have been a lot worse
What an total disaster.It’s hard to articulate how watching this video makes me feel. It’s just unreal.
My little brother who was a warbirds appraiser, died of a heart attack shortly after this.
This tragic accident was entirely preventable, I could not believe when I saw the video, how many aircraft of different sizes and speeds were operating in a very confined area of airspace.
I have been attending air shows for over 45 years and have seen some amazing warbird formations over the years. But I have never seen a hotchpotch of types operating at a fairly low level like we see in the various videos.
To my eye the smaller and faster fighters should be at least 750ft higher when turning, than the slower and less agile bombers, it looks like a free for all, with very little margin for error.
Visibility from most warbirds is not great at the best of times, especially in a turning fighter aircraft. It would be interesting to see what the safety briefing said about the speed and separation protocol of the various types during the display.
I would very much doubt this type of sequence would be permitted in any European Air Show, I know the shows in the US have a bit less regulation, but I am sorry, this just looks like an accident waiting to happen.
RIP to those who were lost, their families and friends, and also a shout out to the first aid and emergency services who responded to this awful situation.
But the Commemorative [formerly Confederate] Air Force has been flying these shows for years. Shouldn't they be the experts on how to avoid events like this?
A trajectory proximity detection alert system on every flying aircraft would be an advantage.
Quick auto direction changing software/hardware.
Plus determine what safety protocols were not being followed, and what safety protocols can be added to help avoid another incident.
Let the NTSB and FAA do their job...you nor I have any clue as to why this happened...let the professionals do their job...Thank you.
What an unfortunate accident, RIP
Was the Air-boss qualified?
Silver lining was the crash in an open area and no one else was injured or killed. Prayers for the family/friends.
True. The people filming the B17 going overhead were in grave danger that if the collision was just a few seconds before, they would have been involved.
That b-17 is on of 9 airworthy aircraft that survived all of its missions in ww2
And the fact that that those 2 plains flew over my hose all the time makes this very saddening
Of the airworthy 9 B-17s remaining before this crash none of them were ever flown in combat. Dozens more are in storage or on static display.
This whole accident would've been averted if the airshow was held without the p63 which was notorious for having such bad visibility and just held with the b17 flying with a couple p47s
This is very sad, I'm sure at some point blame will laid. But more importantly what can be done for preventing this in future. It is educational and historical to see these birds fly. Not to ground them forever in a Museum.
It was the show coordinator on the ground who asked the King cobra to move ahead of the B-17. It was a bad timing call that led to the deaths of six crews. What is so sad is it was an avoidable accident. That is negligent.
Seeing this image, it makes me so sad. 💔😢😢🙏🏻❤️
Very tragic! 😢
What sucks is more vintage planes lost for ever.
Sad, may they Rest in Peace, and a monument in thier honor!
On monument to clowns playing around an old aircraft, over the heads of innocent people that they could’ve killed. I don’t think so.
4 minutes & 20 seconds I'll never get back.
I agree with every one. I am so sorry, and heart broken.
Tragic accident. Pilot error P-63 over shot and lost sight of the B-17 , and or the B-17 was in the wrong position. Much respect for the men and women who help us remember
Those who fought for the freedom of the whole world in WW2 🫡
Those planes are not replaceable along with the wonderful people who flew them.
Two aircraft collided in midair. What difference is it going to make with them wandering around the wreckage?
I was watching some of the video and as a former United States Air Force aircraft mechanic someone who's always had a strong interest in investigating accidents and observing aircraft accidents I would say the fighter was completely at fault. In fact he should have been fired if this accident never occurred. You should have never ever flown over the mall parking lot. Since the 19 88 Ramstein Air Force Air Show accident, all aircraft flight paths need to be parallel to the audience and away from the audience. Any one time should any of the aircraft participants never ever fly to the audience or fly over the opposite side of the field over the audience into the flight path. Mistake number two that fighter that was flying and banked his wings left it completely hidden in obscured the bomber that was coming into view or excuse me coming into the flight path of the bomber so obviously he didn't see the bomber until probably it was too late and he collided into the tail. Had the fighter stayed in the flight path as the bomber, the bomber would have been in his flight path and the accident would have never occurred
That's so true 👌👍
What kind of video is this? It does show any video action.
Tragic……… hearts and prayers for all !
It appears to me that the P-63 was closing on the B-17 much faster than he should’ve been, and that when realizing this the P-63 attempted to pull up and away from the B-17 … too late.
Any stats available regarding where and when, those aircraft flew, in wartime? So sad.
Sad footage but sadly I have a question?
Your footage is basically focusing on the B-17 crash there was another airplane in this accident right?
Past 4 minutes in this video you see the drone footage pulling away and to the left you can still see recognizable Wreckage from the cobra airplane?
Why couldn’t we see any of that?
Some videos show it plainly.
There is a wing between the b-17's tail an fuselage crater. Then the remaining fuselage section not far from the 17's left wing. A short clip of the kingcobra's nose section showing the twisted prop and nose gear.
RIP TO THEM ALL 🙏
If he has such poor visibility, the question is why is he banking so hard and traveling so fast in a parade?
Probably the only positive about this whole thing is they went quickly. Sad to lose 6 people and 2 irreplaceable pieces of history.
I'm sure we'll have a full report from those guys in about 5 years given how it could take 5 hours but you know how it goes.
That was a wide wreckage area.. unbelievably sad.