Only joking here but Nick is sorta like the dad listening to his kid (Gaz) talk about something he knows he doesn’t fully like, but wants to seem interested because his kid is so excited about it haha (:
@@DarraghRedmond yah, Teenage Engineering must be a generational thing. I tried to get into the POs and never got on with them. Played with the OP1 enough to determine that I couldn't figure out what I'd do with it so I never got one. I may be grumpy, old and a bit of a git but that doesn't make me a grumpy old git.
The best hardware I’ve bought in years. I’ve barely touched the octatrack or digitakt since I bought it 3 months ago (until the OB public beta dropped), and I’m finishing more tracks than ever.
I'm 41yrs old and this thing stays with me. You do have to dig in and give it some time but once you do it's all you need. This has given my mpclive and deluge a strong run.
re: @15:25 "an age thing" - I'm 57 (and 11/12ths) years old 😆- and I think the OP-Z is amazing, I clicked with it immediately. As Matt Greer Music said in a previous comment, I have had more fun and created more music with this device in the last few months than in the last 10 years with all my other gear. I personally found initially learning how to use it *without* the app/screen was better for me as I quickly became more familiar with the button combos and LED parameter/page cues through experience. The app is great for drilling down deeper into some functions, but certainly not a necessity for making music.
I love how people just call gear "shit" cause they don't see the need for it for themselves haha. I can see lots of people who spend time on the go like myself, use this as a creative starting point for ideas, rather than the end all sort of product that can spit out a master track that sounds pretty good, like the OP1. Some people do like to get out of the bedroom and play elsewhere as well
@Charley Says haha loled at that last part. The point is people have their head so far up their fuckin ass they can't even fathom that the piece of gear might be cool for someone else. Instead, let's throw feces at it and say it's shittttt! And when called out on their flawed logic, they go farther up their ass instead of admitting another person might be right. It's all fair game until your OWN product, music, opinion, whatever is shit on. Bunch of fuckin spoiled fucks y'all are (not just you)
Disappointed with this. Seems like it could have been a lot better if the connectivity & features were more sorted. Was hoping it was going to be cheaper as well - it's $999 here in Aus!! Seems ridiculously pricey for what it is. I could get a brand new Moog Grandmother for a few hundred dollars more. Saying that, I love TE's product line. They are like the Nintendo of music technology. I'm sure the OP-Z will evolve over time. But the price also has to drop. Dramatically! At $499 (AUS) this would be a hard sell I think.
This thing is kinda neat. It's dimensions are L 212.5 mm H 57.5 mm D 10 mm. At $600 it's a bargain. I can't think of anything else I'd like to buy for $600 besides this. Weeeeee!!!
I have been thinking of getting this to get into synthesizers and sequencing but now im convince this is not for me. This is more of a hindrance to creativity becaue rather than focusing on the music you focus on remembering how to do things with it. And its expensive. I want things to help me work on creating music rather than i work for it to make music. I think most people, not saying all, who says this is a great product is like me convincing myself that my american fender tele is better than a mexican tele cause i paid more for it. I think there are much cheaper and more streamlined machines out there. Do you have any suggestions?
If you buy a violin and expect to play it like a piano, you will be disappointed. But thats not the violins fault, it’s your own. - You approached it under the wrong paradigm. I think once you accept the OP-Z as a completely new instrument and throw your expectations and experiences over board, it might be magical.
All the functions of the OP-Z have been done before in a much more comprehensive and easier to execute system. I don't think this is a new instrument in any sense of the word. The only thing new is the interface which seemed to favor design aesthetics over operational use.
@Charley Says The user interface is an integral part of an instrument and determines how you interact with it and ultimately which sounds and music you will create with it. It is strongly tied to sonic and musical possibilities. If you approach an instrument and expect to interact with it in a way you are used to by using a completely different instrument, that will most likely not work out. Try to blow into a guitar if you don't believe me.
What I don’t get it’s the delayed release on this, over 2 years from the date projected I think... Lots of teases as this would be some game changer but at the end it’s all very disappointing I think. Anyways...
Sorry even the rich enthusiasm of Gaz couldn't sell me on this thing. The last thing I want to do is sit around and make music on a remote control that is so complicated by the time I figure it out the inspiration has gone! I saw Cucko performing with this thing live in one of his videos, why not just hold up a tape recorder or a MP3 player and dance around, same thing. HAHAHA
Each to their own but I haven't had as much fun making music on a singular device in many years of collecting hardware. I can say without even a shred of doubt that I haven't been this prolific in a long time and I owe it to the OP-Z. After about 30 minutes of getting your head around the sequencer, you'll be off and running and you'll see that it is really as deep as you want it to be. That being said, to address some specific criticisms: - Is it cheap? No, it is not but compared to other modern, groove-type instruments (Elektron, Deluge, etc.) it's priced quite fair IMO - Is it overpriced? I really do not think so. Name a single other instrument that can do everything this machine can do. - Is the sequencer only 16 steps? No! This is the most common misconception I see. It defaults at 16 but all of the patterns can expand up to 8 bars and their chainable. Then with the various re-trigs, step components and parameter locking you can add, there can be significantly more variation than that making patterns seem to never truly repeat. IMO, there's a few tricks here that Elektron could stand to take note of (and I own a bunch of their gear too). - Do I have to own an iOS product? Absolutely not. Every action can be accomplished without one. Infact, I owned mine for months and made many satisfactory pieces without ever owning an iOS product. I got an iPad for christmas and have since enjoyed pairing them but it is far from necessary. - Is it hard to learn? That will depend on you. Personally I found it a bit cryptic out of the box but after watching about 30 minutes of tutorial, it all clicked in a big way. The shortcuts and button combos have a repeatable and logical way about them that if you understand one function, it becomes very intuitive to accomplish others. - Is it as good/worse than the OP-1? I've owned both and I for me personally, I much prefer using the very sequencer focused OP-Z over the OP-1 and its 4 track tape recorder based flow. I think they still both have their place though. - Does it sound good? That's entirely subjective. The sample engines sound like whatever you put into them but the synths have their own kind of thing. You'll either love it or hate it. I'm kind of on the fence on this one but again, I'm making a lot of music that I like and not spending a whole lot of time tweaking so it will depend on your interests. For me its one of those greater than the sum of its parts kind of things. - Is it for everyone? Definitely not but I do hope people get a chance to really spend some time with it before making a judgment call because there is actually quite a lot going on in there. The fact that it takes them over 40 minutes to cover it should be an indication that it's a deep machine. - Is this review fair? IMO, no. All due respect to Nick and Gaz but the content here was not very organized and kind of gave the impression of a very discombobulated kind of product. I suggest the Cuckoo review/tutorial of all of the features for a real understanding of it. It can get overwhelming if its not covered in an organized way and this video kind of shows that IMO. Anyways, just the impressions of an owner. I'm not trying to argue with anyone or be TE's holy defender but I do want to add some color to the conversation. Thanks.
What an awesome write up. I love mine too. By the way does your last two step component keys have right and down facing arrows or the symbols seen in this video?
Agreed. I do admit I bought it for the hype, but I have had it for two weeks now and it's the device out of my entire park that I have spent the most time with. What makes it for me: - the synth sounds. Indeed, nothing I have sounds quite like it. Would I like more editing possibilities for the synth tracks? Yes. More LFOs, ENVs, OSC parameters. But the way it is right now, it is in the uniqueness ballpark of my MI Plaits, which is a VERY good thing, but polyphonic. - the ease of live influencing the track with the master, performance, and tape tracks. I have just recorded a hiphop cover tune of Heart of Gold for a friend (don't ask :-)). It took me literally twenty minutes to put this into three sequences, rehearse a couple times, and record it off to audio. The sequences are extremely bland and boring, but with all those live modifiers I can play them like instruments, and the resulting audio is nothing to be ashamed of. And I'm a beginner on this thing. - the form factor. This matters a TON to me. I travel a lot, and have tried taking a Volca (too simple), Deluge (too big for an economy plane seat), or iPad (too uninspiring, not tactile enough, bumpy plane rides make for jittery input). This thing works. On the plane, in the hotel room, in the car. It lives in my work bag now. For longer travel, with this, a Volca Keys, PO-33, RK005, Go:Mixer, and the iPad, I have just about everything I need. Get home, replace the Volca track with the P6 and transfer the samples from the PO-33 to a DSS-1, bit of Strymon, done. - the interface. Using the iPhone / iPad helps in the beginning, but after a couple hours with the instrument they are no longer needed. I have a Deluge. I find this a lot less easier to get into. What this desperately needs to do, so I'm jonesing for an update: - sample. There's a surprisingly decent mic on board, and a mono line input as well. No additional hardware needed. - direct sync / CV / MIDI out. The RK005 alleviates the need for this a bit, as it has sync and MIDI out, but if this were on board it would be a hell of a lot more practical. Complexity rises quadratically with the number of elements.
All the naysayers did the same when the op-1 dropped. Same hipster toy comments and everything. By the time you all started seeing it in your favorite musicians rigs it was Out Of Production and you were making lowball offers on ebay for them.
Which artists though? I haven't seen many serious musicians use them at all. I've seen a lot of hipsters praising the thing on youtube, but actual artists making music with it? Not many. Okay, I've seen it once in a live set. Used as a lofi sample playback device. The way it was used there could have been done on a volca sample, so if that's why I def should have one - #drinkbleach - , I'll save myself 500 euros and just buy that. Or rather I'd just use the Electribe I already got and use a bitcrusher.
Wow! Nick is seriously unimpressed by the OPZ and it REALLY shows. How come neither of you mentioned the Novation Circuit? That's a (very effective) screenless, LED-based UI workstation/groovebox. Sonic Lab/State reviewed the Circuit and I believe you both liked it very much. I'm currently saving my paper round money up for an OPZ. It looks and sounds great. To all the dickheads flaming up the comments with "it's a hipster toy" fraff, I say this. The harmonica was considered a "toy." The melodica was considered a "toy." The ukulele was considered a "toy." The OPZ is defo not a toy. The Step Components open up worlds of possibilities that no other drum machine/groovebox even come close to. The price is too high (should be £300, imo) but until Korg or somebody buys Teenage Engineering, you're always gonna come up against the economy of scale issue.
You do name the melodica, the harmonica and the ukulele. They're all instruments I can buy for under a 100 euros though. Probably all three for that price in fact. I just don't understand the hype about these things. It would all be fine if they came at the price they're worth, but they're at least a factor of 3 too expensive. I suppose it's got the right looks, this pseudo-futuristic fashion statement, and you can show off to your friends that you can spend 600 euros on something frivolous and not very useful.
@UnderBridge Rock i want to like rent one or something before i shelf out a full 600 on one . how do you fit it into your workfolw? i use a po ko 33 , logic pro x, mpc pro 2 for iphone a midi mpk2 , and a guitar. im really hands on but i feel some of the limitations far as hardware and software compatibility arent being discussed. i know its an app for it but im still on the fence yet leaning towards getting it before a physical mpc
@UnderBridge Rock you make the decision sound like a complete no brainer . Yeah though they're attend alone you still use apower source for em. thanks @UnderBridge Rock very insightful info
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@@gladtobeangry If something is a toy or not depends fully on the person using it. The Casio VL-1 wasn't built to be a piece of studio equipment and yet it has found its way into a lot of professionally produced music. Worth is not a property of the thing itself, but of the use that thing has. If you have no use for it you will concider it expensive, but many others will say it has a fair price for the use they get out of it. I use a PC and a Switch for my gaming so in my eyes a PS4 would be frivolous and not very useful, but still people buy them because they get more use out of it.
seems to be they started from a no screen calculator u.i buttons as a 'concept' and then asked the users to memorise what each thing can do from a pdf manual....idiots!... or get a jd-xi with actual keys, buttons and knobs...plus a screen and 4 bar seqences...
It does say something about the Teenage Engineering OP-Z, when you can compare it to a jd-xi and the jd-xi actually wins. The trouble is, I can't disagree with you.
With the OP-Z it is more true than ever: you have to try it out for yourself. It may be for you, it may not be for you, but you will propably not grasp its benefits without using it for a bit of time. Watching videos doesn't get you to the point where you can fully understand it. I made a 1 hour set in 10 days on it (without an iOS display) and performed it live, but before laying my hands on it, even after watching cuckoos videos twice, it was a blur.
Once I got it I was just writing tunes without even really trying… it’s that intuitive, but it does take a little while to understand what on earth is going on at first
I don’t find it expensive at all. Innovation, creativity and design cost money. People disregarding this are downgrading the value of it and expecting the price of a behringer synth clone made in China which is great value but it’s different. You can make full tracks with the op-z in a very fun way, which sound great and you can fit it in your pocket. To each their own. I’m totally blown away by the op-z, and I do own a lot of other gear.
Had mine a few weeks now. It’s tempting to dismiss it as limited and toy-like. Sometimes when I don’t use it for a few days I wonder if it’s any good. In isolation the factory sounds are a bit lame. But every time I turn it on (and that’s every few days) and anywhere I turn it on (which is varied, because I take it everywhere in my coat pocket), something unique, musical and exciting happens. It really is a quite wonderful way of staying in touch with your creativity.
This review would have been better if it was just Gaz or just Nick. They have a really awkward chemistry, Nick's constantly interrupting Gaz just as he's about to explain something really interesting, and doesn't seem to be able to predict where Gaz is going (like when Gaz is about to say "once you mess it up, restore", and Nick cuts him off by saying the exact opposite).
If you are a musician who excels at sequencing and programming beats than this might be a fun creative piece of gear. If you are musician who prefers to really play instruments this is probably not for you. If you are both a programmer and a player then it’s really a toss up. I think you would be better off with an op-1 but they are conveniently out of production. If you want a teenage Engineering groove box this is what is available. I’ll stick with my op-1 that I should play more anyway.
I don't understand all the fuzz about this. For me, it seems to be an expensive overcomplicated sequencer, that doesn't bring anything new to the table.
Crazy! Just looking at yall play with this makes my carpal tunnel syndrome flair up. Amazing sound from such a tiny device. Does it sample? How much time, and what available sample rates?
I'm quite unimpressed (like Nick also seems to be), but that's not saying it's bad only that it's not for me. The OP 1 and OP Z may probably be the most innovating things right now in music creation, but especially the OPZ looks very boring IMO.
Welllllp. It finally came out and I can officially say that this is way too convoluted for me to get into. It has been years in the making and there were a lot of red flags based on interviews at past NAMMs. After watching this I feel like that Teenage Engineering were trying to design some thing new and threw every idea they had at it. I think the problem arose when they didn't say "no" to some and focus on a core set of ideas grounded in the reality of operation and functionality. The UX/UI of this device was its downfall for me. I just don't have any desire to pay for something that will require so much extra time and effort to pull something useable out of it. I have plenty of other things that can do that with greater efficiency and for less money at a comparable size.
Must say that all of you hating on this have not looked deep enough. I’ve owned hundreds of hardware synths over the years and this has easily been my absolute favorite... Even if the synth engines get old if you’re using them constantly, it’s sequencer is the deepest I’ve ever seen and it works like a charm with all of my other gear. Another misconception, the UI is developed so well that theirs absolutely no reason to need a screen. Took me a day or two to understand all the lights telling you what’s happening. I only use the app for projecting GIFs that have been chopped into a loop in my live gigs. I also bought some LED DMX lights that save with the music, with the lights, with the visuals all in sync on a per pattern bases. Sits in perfectly with my OB-6, Minitaur, Tempest, JP-08, Minilogue, DeepMind12, Monologue, Octatrack MkII & Digitakt. Yes, I prefer it to my Elektrons for external sequencing.
Superbly done. Now I get it. Intrigued enough to want one contrary to my state of mind prior to watching. But essentially two middle aged men breaking it down slowly seems to work for me lol
I purchased one. And I regret it. Looks AND sounds like a toy. Only thing that could somehow save it is if they start letting us make our own synth engines. Not just a six second sample pitched over a keyboard. I’ve tried importing my own samples and it’s very limiting. Presets I’ve made sound very low and you can hear that the same sample is being repitched across the keyboard. Very unnatural. It’s also very easy to run out of voices. It can’t even handle a simple drum pattern with hats and percussion running at the same time without dropping notes. I’m seeing a lot being sold already on eBay and reverb. Instead of updating this product they decide to release a whole line of other products. Smh. Also the pocket operators are a joke too. I returned my metal series bundle almost immediately. When will companies realize 16 steps isn’t enough!!! What’s up with the polyphony issues in 2018. There are machines from over two decades ago that handle more polyphony than these new machines. What a waste of technology and potential.
Hm, I never noticed polyphony issues like with the Electribe 2 where it is unclear what exactly the restrictions are. Here you have 2-note polyphony on each drum channel. So that's 2 kicks, 2 snares, 2 hats and 2 FX at once at all times. That is quite a lot when you are not using very long samples. And you can freely use all the sounds of one kit on a track. Something that's impossible with the Electribe 2. Other already wrote about the 16 steps thing. You actually have 24 substeps for each step so even for me who isn't a great live keyboard player it was no problem to input the subnotes that I wanted. Add in Step components and you can potentially have a track that is a minute long depending on what you want to do with it. I realize that it's no deluge.
The cliche' "Jumped the shark" can now be replaced with "Released the OPZ".......AMAZING how T.E have completely bamboozled people into focusing on novel design and complex workflow, to the point where they ignore the mediocre sound and the fact that what you are left with, you could have made using gear you already own in less than a minute. This thing is designed to waste your time and drain your wallet. Teenage Engineering are masters at both.
Being colour blind, this is not for me. Seems like a complex device with a steep learning curve, but could be great fun once mastered. Great vid thanks guys.
I dont understand why we make for children easier stuff when childred are more inteligent what we. My English ist poor, but Im from Kazachstan and my sister is a bit...
This definitely slots somewhere between the glorious OP-1 and the disposable Pocket Lint series they make. If we put enjoying the look, feel and sound of our gear behind us and embrace intricate complexity, we should love it.
No demo can do the OP-Z justice, you have to use one for about a month to really grasp it. The OPZ allows the creator to blend sound like a paint brush, as your working with it, you are teaching yourself synthesis and also learning how to notice fine details you want to achieve and how the different instruments fit together. THE killer feature is about the synthesis and making beats while your walking, sitting, standing and anywhere else. I waited two years for this and after using it for about 1 month and a half I can tell you that they are just getting started with this thing (and then the modulars came out? whoa) I'm waiting for IKEA to make turntables that sync with the colored knobs (and the mystery red robot that appeared for about a week) with futuristic motors will dance to your beats with leds embedded in the skeleton of the bot synced to your beats with a projector behind playing custom visuals and then remixing your beats with the on fly effects, it's like a new art form in the making.
I watched both videos and read the comments...I have other synths like the Casio XWP1 which I have invested years of time in, also a Casio WK7600 with equal time. Why would I spend so much time on cheap keyboards?....because I am poor and it is all I can afford. So instead of money I invested in deep learning and today have produced sound un-equal to others with these instruments (synth folks don't forget synth is half/effects and processing is the other half of great sound). As I seriously watched these videos I determined less time investment in the TE OS than my Casio's. So who is the market??... please comment and let me know. The market seems to be travelers who want to make music from an airplane seat, which is better than humming your ideas into a recording device.
LMAO i love how Nick just gets more and more frustrated at this device, everytime he's like "right so you have this" and then Gaz goes: "not quite you can go even deeper" Nick in his mind goes: "i'm never gonna go home"
Quite tricky, like all TE devices. I confess I feel much more comfortable with my modular synths... I need a global view on the sound and control flow chart, probably due to my 69 yrs old bunch of neurons...
Its not my cup of tea and I am probably in the too old to get the point camp too Nick. Waffling on without getting to the marrow did the product zero favours. If the review lack this much focus what does it say about the product ? I wasn't inclined to watch Part 2 on that basis alone. Not one of Sonic Lab's finer moments by a long shot. Did the whole thing need to be over two parts and more than 40 minutes long ?
Thanks for the review. I was very curious about this thing, but the video has convinced me this is not the droid I’m looking for. I’m with Nick - I’m the grumpy curmudgeon shaking my head at this overpriced toy.
If this could talk via open sound control for realtime tweaking (havent finished vidy) you could take use it with the AKAI force and never regret your desert island decision.
I think a lot of people looking solely at its musical capabilities are misinterpreting the value of this device. It is not just a musical instrument alone and it's multimedia capabilities in tandem with its musical capabilities make it a very worthwhile device. especially if you are in the realm of creating and manipulating sounds and videos in creative and expressive ways.
Only joking here but Nick is sorta like the dad listening to his kid (Gaz) talk about something he knows he doesn’t fully like, but wants to seem interested because his kid is so excited about it haha (:
Just got to the part where Nick recognizes this haha
chaselearkendall lol same here.. “ grumpy old git”.
haha I was thinking the exact same thing
@@DarraghRedmond yah, Teenage Engineering must be a generational thing. I tried to get into the POs and never got on with them. Played with the OP1 enough to determine that I couldn't figure out what I'd do with it so I never got one. I may be grumpy, old and a bit of a git but that doesn't make me a grumpy old git.
Same impression :)
The best hardware I’ve bought in years. I’ve barely touched the octatrack or digitakt since I bought it 3 months ago (until the OB public beta dropped), and I’m finishing more tracks than ever.
I'm 41yrs old and this thing stays with me. You do have to dig in and give it some time but once you do it's all you need. This has given my mpclive and deluge a strong run.
TE attracted me to the op-1, the po's and the op-z because of it's playful interaction, super fun stuff.
Don’t be put off, this thing is super intuitive , the lights really make sense. I get such a buzz every time I use it. Genuinely exciting to use.
I like how Nick slowly starts to get a bit cranky cause he probably wishes he could do this review in one 30min video
I have been documenting my learning of the OPZ with jams on my channel, loved the review guys!
re: @15:25 "an age thing" - I'm 57 (and 11/12ths) years old 😆- and I think the OP-Z is amazing, I clicked with it immediately. As Matt Greer Music said in a previous comment, I have had more fun and created more music with this device in the last few months than in the last 10 years with all my other gear. I personally found initially learning how to use it *without* the app/screen was better for me as I quickly became more familiar with the button combos and LED parameter/page cues through experience. The app is great for drilling down deeper into some functions, but certainly not a necessity for making music.
This is one of your better reviews SS - nice to see Nick’s curmudgeon skepticism! 😂
Cheers chaps, interesting and confusing in equal parts so far, tea and biscuits before part2 me thinks. :)
I love how people just call gear "shit" cause they don't see the need for it for themselves haha. I can see lots of people who spend time on the go like myself, use this as a creative starting point for ideas, rather than the end all sort of product that can spit out a master track that sounds pretty good, like the OP1. Some people do like to get out of the bedroom and play elsewhere as well
@Charley Says haha loled at that last part. The point is people have their head so far up their fuckin ass they can't even fathom that the piece of gear might be cool for someone else. Instead, let's throw feces at it and say it's shittttt! And when called out on their flawed logic, they go farther up their ass instead of admitting another person might be right. It's all fair game until your OWN product, music, opinion, whatever is shit on. Bunch of fuckin spoiled fucks y'all are (not just you)
channelling Wallace and Gromit
Hahaha Gaz is awesome. The OP-Z , I guess its cool for some.
It is like the Rolls Royce of Casio keyboards.
Disappointed with this. Seems like it could have been a lot better if the connectivity & features were more sorted. Was hoping it was going to be cheaper as well - it's $999 here in Aus!! Seems ridiculously pricey for what it is. I could get a brand new Moog Grandmother for a few hundred dollars more. Saying that, I love TE's product line. They are like the Nintendo of music technology. I'm sure the OP-Z will evolve over time. But the price also has to drop. Dramatically! At $499 (AUS) this would be a hard sell I think.
Is it really worth $1k here?
Fuck that
Love the OP-Z, but I am way cooler than my kids think I am.
Why cut the playing at the end? might as well let it go for a few minutes ay?
I love the sound and the underlying tools, but the interface kills me. Pure shift button hell.
HisXLNC just connect it to a tablet or smartphone..
Feed it to the Matrixbrute!
Exclusive picture of the OP-ZX prototype, the followup to the OP-Z:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod_Shuffle#/media/File:5G_IPod_Shuffle.svg
This thing is kinda neat. It's dimensions are L 212.5 mm H 57.5 mm D 10 mm. At $600 it's a bargain. I can't think of anything else I'd like to buy for $600 besides this. Weeeeee!!!
A good meal and a Circuit? Then pocket the change
Jk its propably great fun
I have been thinking of getting this to get into synthesizers and sequencing but now im convince this is not for me. This is more of a hindrance to creativity becaue rather than focusing on the music you focus on remembering how to do things with it. And its expensive. I want things to help me work on creating music rather than i work for it to make music.
I think most people, not saying all, who says this is a great product is like me convincing myself that my american fender tele is better than a mexican tele cause i paid more for it. I think there are much cheaper and more streamlined machines out there. Do you have any suggestions?
If you buy a violin and expect to play it like a piano, you will be disappointed. But thats not the violins fault, it’s your own. - You approached it under the wrong paradigm. I think once you accept the OP-Z as a completely new instrument and throw your expectations and experiences over board, it might be magical.
All the functions of the OP-Z have been done before in a much more comprehensive and easier to execute system. I don't think this is a new instrument in any sense of the word. The only thing new is the interface which seemed to favor design aesthetics over operational use.
@Charley Says The user interface is an integral part of an instrument and determines how you interact with it and ultimately which sounds and music you will create with it. It is strongly tied to sonic and musical possibilities. If you approach an instrument and expect to interact with it in a way you are used to by using a completely different instrument, that will most likely not work out. Try to blow into a guitar if you don't believe me.
@@my4trackmachine I am not aware of any hardware sequencer that offers the OP-Z's components feature. Which one do you mean?
It is Cuckoos Father
I think it has merit as it is an interesting device, but it's not for me.
For five hundred bucks they better turn damn well!!!
What I don’t get it’s the delayed release on this, over 2 years from the date projected I think...
Lots of teases as this would be some game changer but at the end it’s all very disappointing I think.
Anyways...
sequencing should be, and actually is, simpler than this. This looks like a super clever idea to reinvent the wheel
It seems like the bald guy is not feeling it
S-Express was 80s
I'm too dumb to learn all these esoteric interfaces.
Why even bother being in the video with that attitude?
a stupid overpriced thingamabob for ants
Too small, too complicated.
I made it 3 minutes into this video before losing interest entirely. Lame product from a lame company.
Sorry even the rich enthusiasm of Gaz couldn't sell me on this thing. The last thing I want to do is sit around and make music on a remote control that is so complicated by the time I figure it out the inspiration has gone! I saw Cucko performing with this thing live in one of his videos, why not just hold up a tape recorder or a MP3 player and dance around, same thing. HAHAHA
Each to their own but I haven't had as much fun making music on a singular device in many years of collecting hardware. I can say without even a shred of doubt that I haven't been this prolific in a long time and I owe it to the OP-Z. After about 30 minutes of getting your head around the sequencer, you'll be off and running and you'll see that it is really as deep as you want it to be. That being said, to address some specific criticisms:
- Is it cheap? No, it is not but compared to other modern, groove-type instruments (Elektron, Deluge, etc.) it's priced quite fair IMO
- Is it overpriced? I really do not think so. Name a single other instrument that can do everything this machine can do.
- Is the sequencer only 16 steps? No! This is the most common misconception I see. It defaults at 16 but all of the patterns can expand up to 8 bars and their chainable. Then with the various re-trigs, step components and parameter locking you can add, there can be significantly more variation than that making patterns seem to never truly repeat. IMO, there's a few tricks here that Elektron could stand to take note of (and I own a bunch of their gear too).
- Do I have to own an iOS product? Absolutely not. Every action can be accomplished without one. Infact, I owned mine for months and made many satisfactory pieces without ever owning an iOS product. I got an iPad for christmas and have since enjoyed pairing them but it is far from necessary.
- Is it hard to learn? That will depend on you. Personally I found it a bit cryptic out of the box but after watching about 30 minutes of tutorial, it all clicked in a big way. The shortcuts and button combos have a repeatable and logical way about them that if you understand one function, it becomes very intuitive to accomplish others.
- Is it as good/worse than the OP-1? I've owned both and I for me personally, I much prefer using the very sequencer focused OP-Z over the OP-1 and its 4 track tape recorder based flow. I think they still both have their place though.
- Does it sound good? That's entirely subjective. The sample engines sound like whatever you put into them but the synths have their own kind of thing. You'll either love it or hate it. I'm kind of on the fence on this one but again, I'm making a lot of music that I like and not spending a whole lot of time tweaking so it will depend on your interests. For me its one of those greater than the sum of its parts kind of things.
- Is it for everyone? Definitely not but I do hope people get a chance to really spend some time with it before making a judgment call because there is actually quite a lot going on in there. The fact that it takes them over 40 minutes to cover it should be an indication that it's a deep machine.
- Is this review fair? IMO, no. All due respect to Nick and Gaz but the content here was not very organized and kind of gave the impression of a very discombobulated kind of product. I suggest the Cuckoo review/tutorial of all of the features for a real understanding of it. It can get overwhelming if its not covered in an organized way and this video kind of shows that IMO.
Anyways, just the impressions of an owner. I'm not trying to argue with anyone or be TE's holy defender but I do want to add some color to the conversation. Thanks.
What an awesome write up. I love mine too. By the way does your last two step component keys have right and down facing arrows or the symbols seen in this video?
well said friend well said
Incredibly Spot On!
Thank you! I have one, am still in doubt. Absolutely LOVE the OP-1. Still have to wrap my head around the Z.
Agreed. I do admit I bought it for the hype, but I have had it for two weeks now and it's the device out of my entire park that I have spent the most time with. What makes it for me:
- the synth sounds. Indeed, nothing I have sounds quite like it. Would I like more editing possibilities for the synth tracks? Yes. More LFOs, ENVs, OSC parameters. But the way it is right now, it is in the uniqueness ballpark of my MI Plaits, which is a VERY good thing, but polyphonic.
- the ease of live influencing the track with the master, performance, and tape tracks. I have just recorded a hiphop cover tune of Heart of Gold for a friend (don't ask :-)). It took me literally twenty minutes to put this into three sequences, rehearse a couple times, and record it off to audio. The sequences are extremely bland and boring, but with all those live modifiers I can play them like instruments, and the resulting audio is nothing to be ashamed of. And I'm a beginner on this thing.
- the form factor. This matters a TON to me. I travel a lot, and have tried taking a Volca (too simple), Deluge (too big for an economy plane seat), or iPad (too uninspiring, not tactile enough, bumpy plane rides make for jittery input). This thing works. On the plane, in the hotel room, in the car. It lives in my work bag now. For longer travel, with this, a Volca Keys, PO-33, RK005, Go:Mixer, and the iPad, I have just about everything I need. Get home, replace the Volca track with the P6 and transfer the samples from the PO-33 to a DSS-1, bit of Strymon, done.
- the interface. Using the iPhone / iPad helps in the beginning, but after a couple hours with the instrument they are no longer needed. I have a Deluge. I find this a lot less easier to get into.
What this desperately needs to do, so I'm jonesing for an update:
- sample. There's a surprisingly decent mic on board, and a mono line input as well. No additional hardware needed.
- direct sync / CV / MIDI out. The RK005 alleviates the need for this a bit, as it has sync and MIDI out, but if this were on board it would be a hell of a lot more practical. Complexity rises quadratically with the number of elements.
You can tell this device frustrates nick 😂
😂
All the naysayers did the same when the op-1 dropped. Same hipster toy comments and everything. By the time you all started seeing it in your favorite musicians rigs it was Out Of Production and you were making lowball offers on ebay for them.
Which artists though? I haven't seen many serious musicians use them at all. I've seen a lot of hipsters praising the thing on youtube, but actual artists making music with it? Not many.
Okay, I've seen it once in a live set. Used as a lofi sample playback device. The way it was used there could have been done on a volca sample, so if that's why I def should have one - #drinkbleach - , I'll save myself 500 euros and just buy that. Or rather I'd just use the Electribe I already got and use a bitcrusher.
Wow! Nick is seriously unimpressed by the OPZ and it REALLY shows. How come neither of you mentioned the Novation Circuit? That's a (very effective) screenless, LED-based UI workstation/groovebox. Sonic Lab/State reviewed the Circuit and I believe you both liked it very much. I'm currently saving my paper round money up for an OPZ. It looks and sounds great. To all the dickheads flaming up the comments with "it's a hipster toy" fraff, I say this. The harmonica was considered a "toy." The melodica was considered a "toy." The ukulele was considered a "toy." The OPZ is defo not a toy. The Step Components open up worlds of possibilities that no other drum machine/groovebox even come close to. The price is too high (should be £300, imo) but until Korg or somebody buys Teenage Engineering, you're always gonna come up against the economy of scale issue.
You do name the melodica, the harmonica and the ukulele. They're all instruments I can buy for under a 100 euros though. Probably all three for that price in fact. I just don't understand the hype about these things. It would all be fine if they came at the price they're worth, but they're at least a factor of 3 too expensive. I suppose it's got the right looks, this pseudo-futuristic fashion statement, and you can show off to your friends that you can spend 600 euros on something frivolous and not very useful.
@UnderBridge Rock where can i find it at that price?
@UnderBridge Rock i want to like rent one or something before i shelf out a full 600 on one . how do you fit it into your workfolw? i use a po ko 33 , logic pro x, mpc pro 2 for iphone a midi mpk2 , and a guitar. im really hands on but i feel some of the limitations far as hardware and software compatibility arent being discussed. i know its an app for it but im still on the fence yet leaning towards getting it before a physical mpc
@UnderBridge Rock you make the decision sound like a complete no brainer . Yeah though they're attend alone you still use apower source for em. thanks @UnderBridge Rock very insightful info
@@gladtobeangry If something is a toy or not depends fully on the person using it. The Casio VL-1 wasn't built to be a piece of studio equipment and yet it has found its way into a lot of professionally produced music. Worth is not a property of the thing itself, but of the use that thing has. If you have no use for it you will concider it expensive, but many others will say it has a fair price for the use they get out of it. I use a PC and a Switch for my gaming so in my eyes a PS4 would be frivolous and not very useful, but still people buy them because they get more use out of it.
seems to be they started from a no screen calculator u.i buttons as a 'concept' and then asked the users to memorise what each thing can do from a pdf manual....idiots!... or get a jd-xi with actual keys, buttons and knobs...plus a screen and 4 bar seqences...
It does say something about the Teenage Engineering OP-Z, when you can compare it to a jd-xi and the jd-xi actually wins. The trouble is, I can't disagree with you.
can't put the jd-xi in my daily bag
Great introduction, thanks guys! As expected, the salt in the comments is exquisite as well 😂
With the OP-Z it is more true than ever: you have to try it out for yourself. It may be for you, it may not be for you, but you will propably not grasp its benefits without using it for a bit of time. Watching videos doesn't get you to the point where you can fully understand it. I made a 1 hour set in 10 days on it (without an iOS display) and performed it live, but before laying my hands on it, even after watching cuckoos videos twice, it was a blur.
Once I got it I was just writing tunes without even really trying… it’s that intuitive, but it does take a little while to understand what on earth is going on at first
I don’t find it expensive at all. Innovation, creativity and design cost money. People disregarding this are downgrading the value of it and expecting the price of a behringer synth clone made in China which is great value but it’s different. You can make full tracks with the op-z in a very fun way, which sound great and you can fit it in your pocket. To each their own. I’m totally blown away by the op-z, and I do own a lot of other gear.
It'd be kinda cool if Behringer cloned it & sold a cheaper version at $300.
The curious thing about this product is that it's target demographic (Da Yoof) won't be able to afford it...
A poor expensive solution desperately seeking a problem. I really don't see the point in this.
More Gaz Williams please 😀
Excellent well balanced review.... makes a change to blowing smoke up their arse and convincing everyone they must have this bit of kit
Love that Nick is completely miffed and Gaz clearly loves it. Not for me but I'm not gonna trash it.
Well done Gaz Big communication skills
Had mine a few weeks now. It’s tempting to dismiss it as limited and toy-like. Sometimes when I don’t use it for a few days I wonder if it’s any good. In isolation the factory sounds are a bit lame. But every time I turn it on (and that’s every few days) and anywhere I turn it on (which is varied, because I take it everywhere in my coat pocket), something unique, musical and exciting happens. It really is a quite wonderful way of staying in touch with your creativity.
This review would have been better if it was just Gaz or just Nick. They have a really awkward chemistry, Nick's constantly interrupting Gaz just as he's about to explain something really interesting, and doesn't seem to be able to predict where Gaz is going (like when Gaz is about to say "once you mess it up, restore", and Nick cuts him off by saying the exact opposite).
For the money, no. No I don’t think so.
I am not the target audience.
I’ve owned one since November...and sold it yesterday! Good fun and very portable if you want to twiddle on the move. But very limited for studio use.
The guy on the right just wanted the demo to end the whole time. Come on man! That’s why we’re here.
Maybe they just had a couple cups of coffee before the discussion started?
I absolutely need a sonic lab review for the volca drum, Nick make it happen please!
600 bucks? rofl. i will pass.
Sadly the price won't really go down either, it sucks for us who don't want to sell a kidney
More of you two please!!! You both should just always do the reviews! How you complement eachother is pure joy to watch!
Never never and never
If you are a musician who excels at sequencing and programming beats than this might be a fun creative piece of gear. If you are musician who prefers to really play instruments this is probably not for you. If you are both a programmer and a player then it’s really a toss up. I think you would be better off with an op-1 but they are conveniently out of production. If you want a teenage Engineering groove box this is what is available. I’ll stick with my op-1 that I should play more anyway.
Their stuff is ridiculously overpriced. Pass.
I also don’t get it, but I have seen people making cool sounds on Instagram with it
I don't understand all the fuzz about this. For me, it seems to be an expensive overcomplicated sequencer, that doesn't bring anything new to the table.
It's tiny.
Crazy! Just looking at yall play with this makes my carpal tunnel syndrome flair up. Amazing sound from such a tiny device. Does it sample? How much time, and what available sample rates?
I'm quite unimpressed (like Nick also seems to be), but that's not saying it's bad only that it's not for me. The OP 1 and OP Z may probably be the most innovating things right now in music creation, but especially the OPZ looks very boring IMO.
... if apple made synthesizers . Great for the fanboys like Gaz but completely useless to everyone else.
Camera b is Reaaaallly out of focus guys 🤨
Welllllp. It finally came out and I can officially say that this is way too convoluted for me to get into. It has been years in the making and there were a lot of red flags based on interviews at past NAMMs. After watching this I feel like that Teenage Engineering were trying to design some thing new and threw every idea they had at it. I think the problem arose when they didn't say "no" to some and focus on a core set of ideas grounded in the reality of operation and functionality. The UX/UI of this device was its downfall for me. I just don't have any desire to pay for something that will require so much extra time and effort to pull something useable out of it. I have plenty of other things that can do that with greater efficiency and for less money at a comparable size.
"all their ideas" and yet it can't do anything you couldn't do for free in a daw.
Must say that all of you hating on this have not looked deep enough. I’ve owned hundreds of hardware synths over the years and this has easily been my absolute favorite... Even if the synth engines get old if you’re using them constantly, it’s sequencer is the deepest I’ve ever seen and it works like a charm with all of my other gear. Another misconception, the UI is developed so well that theirs absolutely no reason to need a screen. Took me a day or two to understand all the lights telling you what’s happening. I only use the app for projecting GIFs that have been chopped into a loop in my live gigs. I also bought some LED DMX lights that save with the music, with the lights, with the visuals all in sync on a per pattern bases. Sits in perfectly with my OB-6, Minitaur, Tempest, JP-08, Minilogue, DeepMind12, Monologue, Octatrack MkII & Digitakt. Yes, I prefer it to my Elektrons for external sequencing.
???
If you’re referring to having a bunch of gear and not knowing how to utilities it together, you’re mistaken I’m afraid.
It's a shame you have no idea Charley, don't project that limitation onto other people though!
Superbly done. Now I get it. Intrigued enough to want one contrary to my state of mind prior to watching. But essentially two middle aged men breaking it down slowly seems to work for me lol
I can't wait to see the comments if they review Elektrons new machine.
I purchased one. And I regret it. Looks AND sounds like a toy. Only thing that could somehow save it is if they start letting us make our own synth engines. Not just a six second sample pitched over a keyboard. I’ve tried importing my own samples and it’s very limiting. Presets I’ve made sound very low and you can hear that the same sample is being repitched across the keyboard. Very unnatural. It’s also very easy to run out of voices. It can’t even handle a simple drum pattern with hats and percussion running at the same time without dropping notes. I’m seeing a lot being sold already on eBay and reverb. Instead of updating this product they decide to release a whole line of other products. Smh. Also the pocket operators are a joke too. I returned my metal series bundle almost immediately. When will companies realize 16 steps isn’t enough!!! What’s up with the polyphony issues in 2018. There are machines from over two decades ago that handle more polyphony than these new machines. What a waste of technology and potential.
Hm, I never noticed polyphony issues like with the Electribe 2 where it is unclear what exactly the restrictions are. Here you have 2-note polyphony on each drum channel. So that's 2 kicks, 2 snares, 2 hats and 2 FX at once at all times. That is quite a lot when you are not using very long samples. And you can freely use all the sounds of one kit on a track. Something that's impossible with the Electribe 2. Other already wrote about the 16 steps thing. You actually have 24 substeps for each step so even for me who isn't a great live keyboard player it was no problem to input the subnotes that I wanted. Add in Step components and you can potentially have a track that is a minute long depending on what you want to do with it. I realize that it's no deluge.
You didn't give it enough time. The spark step components goes a long way
The cliche' "Jumped the shark" can now be replaced with "Released the OPZ".......AMAZING how T.E have completely bamboozled people into focusing on novel design and complex workflow, to the point where they ignore the mediocre sound and the fact that what you are left with, you could have made using gear you already own in less than a minute. This thing is designed to waste your time and drain your wallet. Teenage Engineering are masters at both.
The remote control slayed me!
Nick really looks like he wants to hurl that thing out a window.
0:00 I thought you were going to say 'but we've got Gaz here, who is easy to see' haha!
Absolutely loving my op-z so far. Owned the op-1 and this is music as a creative game! Op-1 was great but the Z has been even more fun for me.
Drum programming is a heck of a lot more fun on the Z but sampling and synthesis is better on the 1
Being colour blind, this is not for me. Seems like a complex device with a steep learning curve, but could be great fun once mastered. Great vid thanks guys.
Kept getting the feeling I was watching Antiques Roadshow
Alan Liao #metoo
I dont understand why we make for children easier stuff when childred are more inteligent what we.
My English ist poor, but Im from Kazachstan and my sister is a bit...
iOS compatibility only is a non starter for me. Sorry! No excuse with cross platform software development capability these days.
Pants
This definitely slots somewhere between the glorious OP-1 and the disposable Pocket Lint series they make. If we put enjoying the look, feel and sound of our gear behind us and embrace intricate complexity, we should love it.
Too small, just like all these god damned mini keyboards- who is this for? People who live in closets- of their tiny homes?
people who are travelling on a daily basis
Looks great
So it feels like this is a smaller, neater for stylish version of the Circuit Tracks?
No demo can do the OP-Z justice, you have to use one for about a month to really grasp it. The OPZ allows the creator to blend sound like a paint brush, as your working with it, you are teaching yourself synthesis and also learning how to notice fine details you want to achieve and how the different instruments fit together. THE killer feature is about the synthesis and making beats while your walking, sitting, standing and anywhere else. I waited two years for this and after using it for about 1 month and a half I can tell you that they are just getting started with this thing (and then the modulars came out? whoa) I'm waiting for IKEA to make turntables that sync with the colored knobs (and the mystery red robot that appeared for about a week) with futuristic motors will dance to your beats with leds embedded in the skeleton of the bot synced to your beats with a projector behind playing custom visuals and then remixing your beats with the on fly effects, it's like a new art form in the making.
I watched both videos and read the comments...I have other synths like the Casio XWP1 which I have invested years of time in, also a Casio WK7600 with equal time. Why would I spend so much time on cheap keyboards?....because I am poor and it is all I can afford. So instead of money I invested in deep learning and today have produced sound un-equal to others with these instruments (synth folks don't forget synth is half/effects and processing is the other half of great sound). As I seriously watched these videos I determined less time investment in the TE OS than my Casio's. So who is the market??... please comment and let me know. The market seems to be travelers who want to make music from an airplane seat, which is better than humming your ideas into a recording device.
I was waiting for Nick to toss it in the bin
LMAO i love how Nick just gets more and more frustrated at this device, everytime he's like "right so you have this" and then Gaz goes: "not quite you can go even deeper" Nick in his mind goes: "i'm never gonna go home"
I'm luvin my OP-Z! Highly inspirational.
that remote control for the new telly has probably better build quality.
Crazy money for that toy....Nick, you seem to be very perplex no?
Quite tricky, like all TE devices. I confess I feel much more comfortable with my modular synths... I need a global view on the sound and control flow chart, probably due to my 69 yrs old bunch of neurons...
Its not my cup of tea and I am probably in the too old to get the point camp too Nick. Waffling on without getting to the marrow did the product zero favours. If the review lack this much focus what does it say about the product ? I wasn't inclined to watch Part 2 on that basis alone. Not one of Sonic Lab's finer moments by a long shot. Did the whole thing need to be over two parts and more than 40 minutes long ?
Thanks for the review. I was very curious about this thing, but the video has convinced me this is not the droid I’m looking for. I’m with Nick - I’m the grumpy curmudgeon shaking my head at this overpriced toy.
If this could talk via open sound control for realtime tweaking (havent finished vidy) you could take use it with the AKAI force and never regret your desert island decision.
I think a lot of people looking solely at its musical capabilities are misinterpreting the value of this device. It is not just a musical instrument alone and it's multimedia capabilities in tandem with its musical capabilities make it a very worthwhile device. especially if you are in the realm of creating and manipulating sounds and videos in creative and expressive ways.
the used prices on these and OP-1 are more then buying a new one... as if these people think they have a vintage Moog or Sp1200 on their hands lol.