There's a few different types of beryllium copper. Most are safe to machine with normal means. The dangerous alloys need special machines to collect the chips and dust. Fun fact, a company in my town used to machine this stuff all the time and poisoned the ground water forever.
This was definitely one of the safer ones. I probably didn't need to take all the precautions that I did, but these things are additive over time, and that isn't really something I want to risk.
You are thinking wrong about dust. The material gets abraded and ends in the coolant, which gets aerosolized. Even when you no longer care, do the next job, its still in the coolant and disperses in the air.
As someone whoms family has worked in the aerospace industry and i may self also work in the aerospace industry. My mom has berylliosis from machining beryllium and beryllium copper . She worked at kaman aerospace to name one. My grandfather also ran a shop and machine it as well. Not a very safe material. Than again , nickel and chromium are also super dangerous for your lungs and i work around it daily. Also work around HF for etching parts.. Just be safe man. I havent watched the whole video yet so you probably are. But thats my story on CuBe
currently doing the exact same thing. for your getting confused on orientation i named the programs 1001-4 then numbered my collet block square sides accordingly.
Beryllium copper, agree, not a material you want to work with. Post machining, parts always require deburr/polish and dust gets everywhere even with the best precautions.
0:21 I'll hazard a guess that that's because everyone else quoted it with the knowledge that Beryllium is bad :P Also idk if this would've been an option on this part, but Stefan Gotteswinter mentioned a while back that a customer of his wanted parts from beryllium copper, and he convinced them to switch to zirconium copper instead. It's apparently mechanically pretty comparable, less toxic, just at the cost of more cost (i.e. it's more expensive). Video is 6tELHfLGmSM at around 2 minutes, if you're curious
pro tip- throw out BSNs (big stupid numbers) fairly often- you might be surprised. and you'll help the industry keep living wages. plumbing companies are charging $400 an hour around here. machinists make *way* too little for the amount they have into their shops.
Most diy skills I've learned were sparked by contractors giving me BSNs. Now people are asking me to do jobs for them. So you might be increasing competition at the same time.
recently did some parts like this out of A2 , had to do the same sort of setup, worked good but ended up being pretty hard to get the flatness and parallelism tolerances. Crazy tolerances for a door clip.
I like how half the comments fear the CuBe while i sit at work machining pure Be every day. And CuBe is just like a normal copper for us. But to be fair our Kern has its own room with full dust extraction and with a light vacuum so nothing can leaf the room
I brought that upon myself with the thumbnail 😂. But holy cow, that's crazy. I mean I suppose someone needs to do it, but it's not the kind of work I want to be doing
@@AudacityMicro my machine is too old for a probe 😂. Even indicating things in can be a little dicey because the spindle is loose and wanders back and forth by half a thou or so when it's locked.
I switch back and forth between this computer and the one by my mill all the time. If I update one I have to update both of them, so i generally don't do it unless i have time for both.
No, you should have taken that job. Now you are equipped with the knowledge to do more of that, for a lot more money hopefully. As long as you learned something that you will use in the future, that was the same as paying to learn it in school, just on your own time. And no matter how frustrated you were at the time and lost money etc, you did get forced into learning something new outside your comfort zone that you can use in the future. And you did get paid something, which at least took some of the sting out of the lesson.
I use the same process with the same type collet block for a part I make out of 304 stainless. I don't have a probing set up so I just do it manually. It seems to work out well. Unfortunately I need to make about a thousand of those parts so a 5 axis would be waaaaay faster lol.
Not surprised that the customer jumped on whatever price you gave them. You are very casual about your exposure to this extremely hazardous substance. There is a famous company called Brush Wellman that does a lot of work with this material and ALL of their operators die young of cancer. When they get sued, they shut the company down and move to a different state. The programmers and engineers won't even enter the building where the material is cut. No amount of Beryllium exposure is safe. I do not machine it at any price and believe me I have had customers beg.
I've always been really impressed with that alloy. It's "stronger" than some steel alloys. *stronger isn't the proper material property adjative. What I'm curious about is the speeds and feeds and any tool wear.
That is definitely something I need to do more of. I bet if I plan my shots a little, I can make them line up better too. It would be awesome if they were completely synced
Please make a note to go back and watch this again after you obtain a 4th axis (I'm guessing you don't have one now, or you would have used it), just to see what ridiculous stretches were made to make this part vs. the ease of using a programmable 4th (or 5th) axis. I used to do the same thing and it seemed okay at the time, but I wouldn't even consider getting a machine without at least a 4th axis now. It will easily pay for itself! :)
That probably would have been smart with the health considerations on this material too. I didn't even think about that until I was actually doing it. I ended up doing it in the sink under water to make sure no dust got anywhere.
I have 2 similar parts that would be much easier using a 4th or 5th axis but i only have 3 axis. I was thinking about using my rotary table on its side and just keep the part clamped in the same position but rotate it 90 degrees for each operation. Then program an operation for each side. The problem is I am still an amateur programmer. Would you be interested in programming the cam for 2 parts? I already have them modeled in fusion.
That sharp 90 could have just been machined on a manual mill in a vise. It was only 9 parts. Probably quicker to just do the final ops in on a manual mill consider just 9 parts.
1) I don't have a manual mill, 2) this is a simplified version of the part that I can show without fear of breaking an NDA, the real version is a little more complicated. But sure, I don't disagree, this would have been a good time and place for doing some simple work on a low value machine.
@@AudacityMicro OK, I presumed the NDA part had the same 90 problem If all you have is a CNC, still you probably could have just used a milling vise & manually machined it in the CNC, or just create a another program to do the other operations. Also for those round collet (5C'ish) chucks you can just remove it from the vise & flip the chuck 90 degrees or 180 depending on need. Use a vise stop to keep it in the same position when you flip it.. Maybe you did this & I just missed it, as I skipped ahead in parts of the video. At any rate it seems like you got the job done, which is the most important part!
Nice video! I've been thinking about doing a similar setup. Why didn't you just probe off the collet block? Does the ER collet move around a little when you rotate the setup?
I'm sure probing the block would have been just fine, but generally you want to measure as directly as possible. Adding extra distance and components into the metrology loop, only adds more uncertainty and possible error.
I'll eventually get one for the new tormach, but it is really hard to find the right rotary for this machine. They didn't sell many of them apparently, and it requires an older version of the servo motor, which means it isn't compatible with the newer ones.
I will be using this isea, was about to drop a lot of momey on a 4th axis. This looks great. But why did you use round stock for a flat object. Should of bought a .5in sheet and then just flipped the part in the vise,
when is that 1500 video going to be coming out ive been really interested in the machine and would like to know your opinions on it sicne you are really the only youtuber talking about it
I have the installation video 99% done. Just need to do one final touch on it, and then I can publish it early next week. I have one project video that uses the machine recorded, and I'm starting another one today!
There's a few different types of beryllium copper. Most are safe to machine with normal means. The dangerous alloys need special machines to collect the chips and dust. Fun fact, a company in my town used to machine this stuff all the time and poisoned the ground water forever.
This was definitely one of the safer ones. I probably didn't need to take all the precautions that I did, but these things are additive over time, and that isn't really something I want to risk.
You ain't talking about the American Beryllium Company are ya?
You are thinking wrong about dust. The material gets abraded and ends in the coolant, which gets aerosolized. Even when you no longer care, do the next job, its still in the coolant and disperses in the air.
As someone whoms family has worked in the aerospace industry and i may self also work in the aerospace industry. My mom has berylliosis from machining beryllium and beryllium copper . She worked at kaman aerospace to name one. My grandfather also ran a shop and machine it as well.
Not a very safe material.
Than again , nickel and chromium are also super dangerous for your lungs and i work around it daily.
Also work around HF for etching parts..
Just be safe man. I havent watched the whole video yet so you probably are. But thats my story on CuBe
currently doing the exact same thing. for your getting confused on orientation i named the programs 1001-4 then numbered my collet block square sides accordingly.
That makes sense! I should engrave my block to have it permanently set up for that.
For a one-time thing, I'm sure the "big stupid number" was worth it.
it indeed was 😅
Beryllium copper, agree, not a material you want to work with. Post machining, parts always require deburr/polish and dust gets everywhere even with the best precautions.
Yup, I may just ban it outright in my shop going forwards. I've already banned composites for a very similar reason.
Yeah, I heard the "I can just sand that off later" and was thinking, huh, what about the CuBe dust tho?
0:21 I'll hazard a guess that that's because everyone else quoted it with the knowledge that Beryllium is bad :P
Also idk if this would've been an option on this part, but Stefan Gotteswinter mentioned a while back that a customer of his wanted parts from beryllium copper, and he convinced them to switch to zirconium copper instead. It's apparently mechanically pretty comparable, less toxic, just at the cost of more cost (i.e. it's more expensive). Video is 6tELHfLGmSM at around 2 minutes, if you're curious
Probably 🤣
pro tip- throw out BSNs (big stupid numbers) fairly often- you might be surprised. and you'll help the industry keep living wages. plumbing companies are charging $400 an hour around here. machinists make *way* too little for the amount they have into their shops.
Fair enough!
Most diy skills I've learned were sparked by contractors giving me BSNs. Now people are asking me to do jobs for them. So you might be increasing competition at the same time.
recently did some parts like this out of A2 , had to do the same sort of setup, worked good but ended up being pretty hard to get the flatness and parallelism tolerances. Crazy tolerances for a door clip.
I like how half the comments fear the CuBe while i sit at work machining pure Be every day. And CuBe is just like a normal copper for us. But to be fair our Kern has its own room with full dust extraction and with a light vacuum so nothing can leaf the room
I brought that upon myself with the thumbnail 😂.
But holy cow, that's crazy. I mean I suppose someone needs to do it, but it's not the kind of work I want to be doing
@AudacityMicro makes good money. And a lot of work, not a nice material to work with
I like the setup, That probe is pretty sweet !
It is! You totally can make accurate parts just fine with an edge finder, but nothing beats the speed and convince of a probe
@@AudacityMicro my machine is too old for a probe 😂. Even indicating things in can be a little dicey because the spindle is loose and wanders back and forth by half a thou or so when it's locked.
The little icon in the top of Fusion saying you have an update to install would drive my OCD insane I have to do them immediately lol
I switch back and forth between this computer and the one by my mill all the time. If I update one I have to update both of them, so i generally don't do it unless i have time for both.
Just don't grind it, you'll be fine. I've Wire EDM'd beryllium heat exchangers, submerged of course to contain the cut residue.
No, you should have taken that job. Now you are equipped with the knowledge to do more of that, for a lot more money hopefully. As long as you learned something that you will use in the future, that was the same as paying to learn it in school, just on your own time. And no matter how frustrated you were at the time and lost money etc, you did get forced into learning something new outside your comfort zone that you can use in the future. And you did get paid something, which at least took some of the sting out of the lesson.
I use the same process with the same type collet block for a part I make out of 304 stainless. I don't have a probing set up so I just do it manually. It seems to work out well. Unfortunately I need to make about a thousand of those parts so a 5 axis would be waaaaay faster lol.
This is awesome! I have a manual 4 axis mill now too!
😁
Not surprised that the customer jumped on whatever price you gave them. You are very casual about your exposure to this extremely hazardous substance. There is a famous company called Brush Wellman that does a lot of work with this material and ALL of their operators die young of cancer. When they get sued, they shut the company down and move to a different state. The programmers and engineers won't even enter the building where the material is cut. No amount of Beryllium exposure is safe. I do not machine it at any price and believe me I have had customers beg.
Apparently BW are called Materion now
I've always been really impressed with that alloy. It's "stronger" than some steel alloys. *stronger isn't the proper material property adjative. What I'm curious about is the speeds and feeds and any tool wear.
My normal copper speeds and feeds seamed to work well. I didn't do a ton of material removal, but didn't notice any wear.
@AudacityMicro thank you for the response. Is it as "gummy" as normal copper?
Not at all, it was closer to a bronze.
Thank you for the video.
Oh I love the Picture in Picture
That is definitely something I need to do more of. I bet if I plan my shots a little, I can make them line up better too. It would be awesome if they were completely synced
Please make a note to go back and watch this again after you obtain a 4th axis (I'm guessing you don't have one now, or you would have used it), just to see what ridiculous stretches were made to make this part vs. the ease of using a programmable 4th (or 5th) axis. I used to do the same thing and it seemed okay at the time, but I wouldn't even consider getting a machine without at least a 4th axis now. It will easily pay for itself! :)
What brand ER Blocks are you using? I have a couple of the 5c ones but an ER version would be much handier.
The ones I have are just cheapo import ones.
I wouldn't sand that tab off, I'd have an op for that.
That probably would have been smart with the health considerations on this material too. I didn't even think about that until I was actually doing it. I ended up doing it in the sink under water to make sure no dust got anywhere.
I have 2 similar parts that would be much easier using a 4th or 5th axis but i only have 3 axis. I was thinking about using my rotary table on its side and just keep the part clamped in the same position but rotate it 90 degrees for each operation. Then program an operation for each side. The problem is I am still an amateur programmer. Would you be interested in programming the cam for 2 parts? I already have them modeled in fusion.
That sharp 90 could have just been machined on a manual mill in a vise. It was only 9 parts. Probably quicker to just do the final ops in on a manual mill consider just 9 parts.
1) I don't have a manual mill, 2) this is a simplified version of the part that I can show without fear of breaking an NDA, the real version is a little more complicated.
But sure, I don't disagree, this would have been a good time and place for doing some simple work on a low value machine.
@@AudacityMicro OK, I presumed the NDA part had the same 90 problem
If all you have is a CNC, still you probably could have just used a milling vise & manually machined it in the CNC, or just create a another program to do the other operations.
Also for those round collet (5C'ish) chucks you can just remove it from the vise & flip the chuck 90 degrees or 180 depending on need. Use a vise stop to keep it in the same position when you flip it.. Maybe you did this & I just missed it, as I skipped ahead in parts of the video.
At any rate it seems like you got the job done, which is the most important part!
Why is background play blocked for this video? Is it only me experiencing this?
Seems to only be on the Members Only videos
Interesting! I had no idea that was a thing! It's not something I can control on my end. It must be a weird TH-cam bug.
Nice video! I've been thinking about doing a similar setup. Why didn't you just probe off the collet block? Does the ER collet move around a little when you rotate the setup?
I'm sure probing the block would have been just fine, but generally you want to measure as directly as possible. Adding extra distance and components into the metrology loop, only adds more uncertainty and possible error.
I have a micro arc I have yet to use, if that will help you out.
I'll eventually get one for the new tormach, but it is really hard to find the right rotary for this machine. They didn't sell many of them apparently, and it requires an older version of the servo motor, which means it isn't compatible with the newer ones.
@@AudacityMicrowonder if silver CNC has something you could get. They quoted me a 4th for my Fanuc machine that was very reasonable
I'll check it out, thanks!
I will be using this isea, was about to drop a lot of momey on a 4th axis. This looks great.
But why did you use round stock for a flat object. Should of bought a .5in sheet and then just flipped the part in the vise,
It's cheaper and easier to find in round!
@AudacityMicro I just looked up the material you used, you are correct. Boy is that stuff expensive 😮
Yup 😅
when is that 1500 video going to be coming out ive been really interested in the machine and would like to know your opinions on it sicne you are really the only youtuber talking about it
I have the installation video 99% done. Just need to do one final touch on it, and then I can publish it early next week.
I have one project video that uses the machine recorded, and I'm starting another one today!
LOL he said PROBE it to death :)
Don't worry, that guy will be back with more Barry copper , since no one wants to machine that stuff lol
I hope so! That job fed my family for a month 😅
Gyat damn xometry... Never see the real product.. Kinda like jenna jamison videos.. 😂