It's not just the Mk community but it's a lot of people who are on X/twitter that don't get simple basic concepts that everyone should be able to grasp but don't
The guy in this video doesn't understand a thing about states. The reason why she gets back on her feet is due to the freezing animation resetting her position when it ends. The hurtboxes are still high crushing while she is frozen on the ground. Overheads are meant to hit crouched opponent but high crushing is a different state than ducking.
I'll also add proofs from his own vid. The highs are completely missing her while she is frozen on the ground. PROVING the hurboxes are still high crushing anything at that moment, something not possible if she was considered standing while frozen.
@@bobibobbobinoYou've used the term crouching and ducking, does MK1 actually differentiate and whsts the difference? I don't think MK differentiates. Tanya's sweep puts her in a crouching state, meaning all overheads should hit. If she is technically standing...the overhead should still hit lmao.
I had a friend, he was huge into Fortnite and over 18, he said Fortnite is harder than Fighting games. I was like bro FRAME DATA is huge in fighting games and that’s harder than Fortnite because Fortnite doesn’t rely on Frame Data and studying frames like Fighting games……..homeboy said “Fortnite has drama data too”………😮😮😮😮 I was like no way he said that no way he literally said Fortnite has fighting game mechanics too…..
NRS doesn't know their own games. Their games has been "manufactured" and released. Since MK4, the various team behind MK never understood how a fighting game should look and feel. The animation looked clunky, the fighting was unfocused and broken. And the team never supported their games like how Capcom or Namco or dare i say SEGA. At least business wise, the game companies in Japan has competition between themselves. Money after all money. But in America, NRS has no competition in terms within the country.
I always hated how inconsistent NRS hurt/hitboxes are. The female hitbix issue in mk11 still exists to this day where combos that work on men don't work on women. They should just extend the boxes outside of the characters model like every other fighting game
Tekken has the same kind of thing but it actually makes sense when characters vary in height and width. For example a combo that works on the bigger characters isn't consistent with females. In MK most characters are pretty much the same size though, there aren't a lot of hulking beasts walking around (at least not playable ones) so pretty much all combos should work the same on the whole roster
@@bandawin18with tekken it's rarer as well assuming that when people say "they don't work on females" for MK that the mean the entire female cast but I don't play MK so idk. But for tekken there's only a handful of characters (maybe a couple female characters who are smaller than everyone else and a few larger male characters bigger than everyone else. And the 2 bears ig lol) that are exceptions when it comes to combos working. And in a lot of combos those differences don't even matter.
I've said it so many times... MK online fandom is thee most TOXIC. Surely they all can be... but bro.... It's hot and cold in terms of wholesome vs toxic and it's rarely wholesome. Big emphasis on rarely.
Heh reminds me of day 1 online. My opponent kept cusing me because I always did the same combo. Whereas the guy constantly did the same launched with Raiden which I blocked then I proceded to punish. Basically he lost by his own fault for doing the same move over and over even when I constantly punished it. And still called me a noob that just searched combos on TH-cam and what not. Basically that guy if he couldn't hit the launcher he didn't do a combo. Won 2 matches in a row against him.
@KainGarland I beat a Lui Kang player just yesterday. We're both Demi God rank. He's playing like he just started doing things that literally don't make good sense. He loses bad and then I make the simple suggestion to "Zone more bro. Throw fireballs until they hate you lol." Yknow, instead of basing his nuetral on rushing me down and spamming the same staggers with no actual mix behind it. He messages me back "Ur trash bro." I told him "I am, so?"
Finally someone calls out the MK community... i remember being in college and there was a pretty sizable FGC scene there. Once i stated i really liked MKX over all the other fighting games they were so confused as to how i could like MK over all the others but they didnt shun me away because i guess they enjoyed my company but all the other MK supporters were ridiculed. Granted anyone can like something over other things but once i got real deep into the MK community, i realized how ignorant some of the people are, and thats putting it lightly. They really dont know what it takes to be a true fighting game. Now im a tekken guy.
Yeah no the MK community is really dumb. Most of the time when I mentioned 3D era characters they look at me crazy. Like "bruh why would you want any 3D era characters back. They all suck" but yet they always ignore the fact that NRS has brought back some of 3D era characters and improved on them a lot. Hell, even they improved on Tremor in MKX. But they always want the same mk 1-2 characters over and over again and that shit is boring. " Jade needs to be dlc because we need all the ninja girls" like bruh nobody ever played jade now all of sudden they want her? They also don't acknowledge the fact that the 3D era saved MK back in the day and expanded on the universe. But nah it sucks because it's not they og trilogy or a dumbass guest character like Peacemaker.
@Terminator-ht3sx yeah i think if MK ever went back to its 3d Era and made the game actually good and balanced, they'd turn a lot of heads. To put it simply, they like to paint with shit on a really well crafted, beautiful canvas.
Thank you for calling out the ideology that there *HAS* to be diversity in any and every single piece of media. Mind you I’m not against diversity unless it’s forced, but I never understood the concept of being mad that someone didn’t put a character of your orientation in their franchise. I’ve seen plenty of Afrocentric things (using this example specifically because I’m black), many of them inspired by other series that weren’t, and highly doubt that they’d react peacefully to someone asking where their representation is. Nobody is obligated to include anyone and no one should feel entitled to that. Simple as that.
The problem with people that say they don't mind diversity "unless it's forced" is that they will often consider any diversity to be forced. Like the one moron that just complained about Tanya and Janet fucking Cage, which is essentially a joke alternate universe character.
No idea how we’ve spun back to black characters being in an American game being bad or “enforced” from zero being included but you guys are just as effed as the “woke” crew.
Okay, so there IS an explanation, but its not satisfying. So firstly, overheads are meant to hit crouching opponents. The hitbox for them are mids that are meant to get through low guards. The problem is the animation for tanya pulls her hurtbox EXTREMELY low. And because she was literally frozen in that position, her hurtbox was also frozen in that position. The overhead he used was built for crouching opponents, but not "laying down" opponents, if that makes any sense.
I've always thought of MK's community as being the worst sub-community when it comes to fighting game knowledge, followed by Guilty Gear STRIVE's community. These people need to stop acting like they know everything. You should not be calling someone stupid unless you actually have the experience to back it up (even then, why? Just explain things, dude). These people in this thread apparently don't even know simple things like hit/hurt boxes, and they are calling Sikander stupid and saying it's a "skill issue", or "you should have labbed this", oblivious to the fact that Sikander was absolutely right in reacting how he did to Tanya being frozen so close to the ground. I can't believe one of them actually said that overheads aren't supposed to hit crouching opponents, I'm actually speechless from that one.
I use to be in the NRS fandom during MK11. They are nothing but bullies, and are pretty disgusting, too. One troll constantly was harassing me even when I left the fandom. Glad he was banned on Twitter, but it was the best decision ever leaving that community
While I agree that it should have hit (I'm also a Sub Zero player and he needs all the help he can get) I'd need to see the hit boxes... That said Johnny Cage will 45% combo you with ghost jabs that look like they shouldn't be hitting you at all, thus is the jank. MK has always been a simplistic, gimmicky fighter since it's inception and honestly, I love it for that. However as soon as it gets high level for someone that isn't a frame data mathematician, you very quickly see how imbalanced and janky it is. Then, you play something like Street Fighter or (especially) Tekken and the gap in depth is astonishing. That said, I cant go anywhere else to get my colourful "ninja" fix.
You don't really need to be a Frame data mathematician to see the problem here though. Overhead/high/low is all you need to understand. Other fighting games follow their rules so that way you don't have to pull out a microscope and zoom in on the pixel.
UPDATE!!! Game has been out for a year at this point. Khaos Reigns is about to drop in a couple of days and Sub Zero is still bottom 3. Lame, buff Sub Zero already.
I always find it important to keep an open mind unlike some of the people in the FGC. I started studying frame data about several months ago and have improved since. I came across this and thought nothing was wrong until learning more about the hit box situation thanks to your Explanation!👏 I still have more to learn and have after watching this.
I’m a casual gamer and even I can say sikander got robbed of the match. That overhead should’ve hit. Tanya was frozen in a low attack and an overhead attack can hit those. It’s even explained in tutorials. So for people to say otherwise is sad.
It’s honestly to the point where I still enjoy the game itself, but I’m genuinely embarrassed to be a mortal kombat fan/player. I feel just saying I like mortal kombat paints me in a negative light because of how toxic, cringe, and outright stupid the community has become
Just because she resets to standing after getting hit, doesn't necessarily mean that she was in a standing state while frozen. Therefore I disagree that she ought to be considered in a standing state while frozen that low to the ground (i.e. it would make sense for high attacks and even mid attacks to whiff in that situation). That said, I 100% agree the overhead should have hit. It's an NRS issue.
lol i just added a comment, where i feel the same opinion. The code is set to standing state, after the freeze is over. If this is inconsistent and overheads do hit that, and this time it didnt, then he should be way upset sure. But if simply is a feature of the game (intended or not), then the only excuse for being angry would be its the first time he ran into this situation. Cos if its "a thing", and he knows it always wiffs, then being upset is pointless Edit: I dont know if her attack is considered to be something that goes under highs (or overheads , i dont know this MK terminologies lol), even when not frozen. If not, then yeah, she should have been hit when frozen (because she is frozen in an attack, that probably equals crouching, not simply lying down)
I didn't realize that being good at playing a video game made you a developer thereof. Just as using insults in an argument/discussion doesn't make your point of view the correct one. I don't think that it is a stretch to believe that a character's x and y positioning dictates how hit boxes interact. As a non-pro, I would ask the question, would Sub Zero's overhead hit Tanya if she were in the midst of that move while not frozen. If the answer is yes then for consistency's sake it should have hit when she was frozen. If not, then I would call it a design decision. The theory about her actually being in a standing position is speculative at best. Especially, if the glitch is the skipping of animation when transitioning from the frozen position to a standing position. Either way, it's not that serious where you have to resort to bully tactics in order to make your point. Besides, if not for casuals purchasing the game, "pro players"/content creators might not have a game to whine about. Anyone who paid good money for the game has the right to voice their opinion on it ... even if they don't monetize their skill or opinion of it. FYI 29:29 Zto 29:36 in the link below for your beloved game illustrates how the x/y coordinates can impact overhead hit boxes. th-cam.com/video/0-8ab0jo8Ts/w-d-xo.htmlsi=btTh079qe6eCR-he
Dummy. It's not about an opinion. It's about the game being a broken mess. Wich is factual. Proceed to sit down in the "but my feelings matter too" corner
@KasualShinok. That was a good answer. I can see you put a lot of thought into your response (as much as you could muster anyway). And by the way. I'll sit anywhere I please. If anyone needs a timeout, it's the one throwing a tantrum and calling people names over a little whittle video game.
Bro you sound dumb. OH in mk is designed to hit any and every opponent not stand blocking,. It doesn’t matter if you are underground OHs should always it. That’s the design of this fighting game. Listen again OHs hits ducking or duck blocking or on the floor opponents.
@ronaldreinhard3377 Bro you obviously didn't read my response with any understanding. It posed a question about the dev's intent and its consistency. It did not advocate one way or the other. The only thing I was definitive about was that I disagree with the tone of the discourse.. For example, saying things like "Bro you sound dumb", without first understanding what was actually said. But I'm learning to lower my expectations. And btw, there is nothing dumb about asking questions ... it's only dumb when you think you have all the answers
I swear once a week in one of my discords is a new NRS player comes in who is totally baffled by the concept of anti-airs. It's crazy how simplistic NRS approach to hurt/hitboxes is and how they are still super inconsistent by accident. Tekken ain't perfect but stuff like this really makes you appreciate something like Xiaoyus AoP.
0:42 . The sound of the controller droping in that clip was relatable. It summed it all up. Without words it sounded like “I’m done with this shit”. I swear how could you even debate wheter or not that should connect.
Irony is that Tanya's drill move has her close to the ground where she should be able to go under projectiles in MK1 but it doesn't. Her slide should function like Sub zeros and Reptiles slide but it does not😅😂😅😂😅😂😅 So the fact her back 3 goes under his overhead is funny and ironic to me😂😅😂😅😂😅
tekken is the worst fighting game to accuse for lack of diversity, the game has mofos communicating on their own language and actually understanding each other somehow xD it has character of all backgrounds and ethnicities and they are all cool af
Its funny how that dude Sikander have a mind of 6 years old kid.He defeated somebody in mk1 and told him "i hope you die" .Basically i am ashamed to even play mk1 anymore when someome that ignorant play that same game.
Thank you, dawg. i played so many fighting games as a casual, and even i knew that BS 😂😂😂 mk1 is just trash. tekken finna be hittin different this this year for fighting games for sure
This is a guess, but I would've thought that overheads just ignore the crouch block property. So the reason the move whiffed isn't an overhead issue but a hitbox and hurtbox issue. And I think it is similar in a way to Tekken. Mids ignore crouch block. When a move crushes a mid, it's just the hitbox missing the hurtbox but Namco has turned that into a gameplay mechanic
14:55 bro Saudi Arabia complained about a stage in Tekken Tag 2 where Allah was written on the ground and some felt offended because the fighters were literally stepping on God's name to them. Harada didn't make any fusses, he just pushed an update to remove that texture. Dude is far from a racist.
MK1 is kind of dogwater at the moment but i feel like its also the first NRS game that isnt a complete laughingstock in the wider fgc space. i mean "MK bad" is always going to be the prevailing sentiment because thats the popular way to think, but its really been doing well in my local scene and i enjoy playing it with my friends quite a bit even a few months after launch, which i really couldnt say for any other NRS game except maybe X.
Nah, MK1 is doing pretty bad and probably even worse than MK11. First week registration leaderboard for Combo Breaker 2024 was released a couple days ago and MK1 is not even in the Top 8, when that's the biggest NRS major in the US and the only offline Pro Komp qualifier left
@@Terminator-ht3sxYep. Lacking loads of content and options and terrible hitboxes. Johnny upward kick clearly doesn't hit the opponent most of the time but stil registers as a hit resulting in a full combo. This game is a joke
People in general have no idea how hit boxes and collission detection works let alone how the computer interprets the interactions. People think 3D models and environments are solid things that interact the way real solid things do. They see a woman spinning on her back on the ground and don't understand that the computer sees(or should) the same size boxes as if it was a woman crouching on the ground. People have little grasp of how games are made or work, and that's fine. But they shouldn't go mock others(let alone a top player) and get upset when they get backlash for being ignorant and stupid. On a tangent, way back when Killer Instinct was originally released in the arcades, this guy said to me "Dude I gotta find out which actress they hired for Orchid!" He actually thought KI was digitized video like Mortal Kombat.
I agree with you. The fact that jabs are missing while she is frozen completely destroys this TH-camr's argument. He doesn't understanding that states will reset you to the 0 position (neutral standing) whenever they end (aka frozen state ending). The hurtboxes and hitboxes must be very close to the ground in this very specific instance. Sikander is wrong to be mad, even if he's better than me.
Not only that ice clone reads as a high projectile I believe. So explain to me. How can the character get hit by a high projectile to get frozen? But not the overhead proceeding?
Idk, Ive always loved Mortal Kombat as a franchise I just wished they'd sell it to someone that actually knows how to make proper fighting games. NRS/WB treats MK as if it was an IP arena fighter with very short life spans, poor support and packed up the @ss with DLC. They put more effort into the single player campaign than they do on creating a good fighting game and I kind of get it since more and more people buy the game exclusive for the single player story. The playstyle in NRS games is so degenerate, it lacks any real depth, its so devoid of fundamentals that its no wonder why MK1 players are already complaining about the game being stale just a few months after its release, thats crazy.
Your definition of overheads is quite wrong. Generally speaking, Overheads are meant to hit crouching characters, not necessarily high crushing moves/stances/positions. Even though some games have that. To have the answer, we'd have to enable visibility on the hitboxes/hurtboxes and test multiple different instances of high crushing moves against overheads in MK1, we could then test when frozen to compare. We'd immediately see whether it's intended or not. Is it confirmed by the Devs that high crushing positions are meant to be hit by overheads?
When characters does high crushing stances/moves, aren't they generally crounching to duck the highs? So...Since they're crounching, the overhead would hit still.
@@MattTein Not equivalent. Ducking *has* high crush properties. Not the opposite. Stances leaving you on the ground with high crush properties will have their own hurtboxes.
It's definitely not a skill issue. I'd say more of a, "it hadn't come up yet so I didn't know it would miss" issue. The animation physically misses Tanya. This is kind of where attention to detail comes in. You can either applaud the accuracy of the hitbox in that particular moment or feel completely cheated. If Tanya had been say, frozen in the air and he had tried to uppercut her for some reason or did an anti air that missed because she was too high, this is the same concept. She was too low. It missed. Tanya has a hitbox. The hitbox has dimensions and it was beneath what the overhead could hit. I would argue that it clearly missed, why should it confirm? It seems like the argument would be, well because it's an overhead and that's what overheads do even if they clearly miss on the screen. If he knows it misses then he doesn't do it and this video is never made cause he wins, which shows that he'd never been in that exact situation and he relied on how he thought or felt like it should work but it didn't work that way. I can't speak for what NRS was trying to do but the reason it missed was obviously the hitbox was either on the ground with Tanya or was missing. It was on the ground with her because the lows hit which means people that don't like this are either complaining about having an accurate hitbox (for once) or are complaining that it isn't consistently accurate? Because the argument that "it's an overhead, enough said" is a bit lacking to me.
The argument isn't "it's an overhead therefore end of story." Games have rules and mk's rules clearly state that overheads hit crouching opponents. This is how the game registers information. If the games data registers "Tanya in a crouching State" then the sequence breaks the games rules. It's also a flaw in the overhead that it does not reach all the way to the floor. This is the same issue NRS had with things like anti-airs and why so many NRS players are awful at other fighting games.
@@MrMooMoo088 well, Tanya isn't crouching either so that argument doesn't hold. You don't know if Tanya is crouching or not. You are assuming that in MK there is no other state of a character. Unless you can see the actual "flags" the character has you don't know what state the character is in, you can only make assumptions. You are also assuming it isn't something to do with the ability Tanya is using. Maybe it actually goes beneath overheads? I don't know and unless it was tested, no one else knows. Though it would be hard since they can't freeze her but, has it been tested against other overheads? Shao's for instance actually hits the ground. Reiko's looks like it would miss also. If Shao one hits then I'd say again, it's silly to argue that an attack that actually misses it's opponent cause his arms aren't long enough or the hammer doesn't reach far enough, misses. No one complains when their characters arm isn't as long as someone else's and they don't have the same reach on their poke as someone else, this is literally the same thing IF overheads that reach the ground actually hit vs ones that don't. If not and other overheads do hit, especially ones that are even visually higher like Reiko's that should miss if it's a hit box thing, then it is inconsistency and I would call it a bug. An overhead is an overhead is an overhead isn't enough of a reason without knowing more details. I'm not defending it it's just without more info I don't think anyone knows what it is. You could possibly test it using the frost cameo with other characters.
@@gemcrim5904 no it isn't an Reach issue. It's a failed overhead and MKs longtime proven history of being very inconsistent. If the game doesn't flag her as crouching or standing...then where she is? Airborne? This is classic NRS failing at their own simplistic design...AGAIN.
@@MrMooMoo088 I don't know where she is. And neither do you. That's the point. You just think there is no other state and maybe you are right but you can't know without actually looking and you can't look because that kind of information isn't available to you. I doubt NRS would tell you if there are technical states that apply to characters while they are executing abilities and if they did it would probably be an answer that makes them look best vs an accurate one. It can be determined however if further testing is done with other overheads, at least to a degree.
The Reality is……the fighting game community HATES Sikander and they don’t understand much of fighting games like they should. It’s not us getting mad by them, it’s annoying how stupid people are and the fact they really believe what they say
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the major difference between freezing your opponent in mk11 and mk1 is that if you froze your opponent in mk11 they froze in a set or one animation way.(I think they where in a stand position). In mk1, I noticed that they freeze in whatever position they are when the ice hits them. So in this example she was almost flat on the ground. And because of that, the testers or animators did NOT take into considération what would happen during an overhead. So, yeah, bad programming and not a skill issue. But we learned now what to do if your character freezes flat on the ground I guess.
When that clip was played in the video, I instantly just complete confusion cuz like how that whiff? I swear it is how I feel doing Kazuya combo in Tekken 8 Demo with DF+1 after 2 PEWGF and back 2 2 but then sometime it hits and sometime it whiff hard. That is rough... and If someone saying that overhead shouldn't hit, bruh tell them to go back to old FGs first before making argument
Mk1 is made for kasuals! Sik plays sub who is low tier but he knows more than the person who plays a broken character! Cuz as a sub he does micro duck, flowless block etc pretty much everything available in the game but a kasual who plays a broken character doesn't need to know all this!
I know this video is kinda old but I just wanted to say that coming from the perspective of an extremely left leaning person who doesn't even like to throw around the word woke (unless im being ironic), fighting games probably have some of the best representation nd diversity of the modern day, and pretty much of the past like what, 2 decades? Feels so silly to come for tekken out of all franchises, let alone the genre itself. I understand the sentiment maybe if it was worded differently or for something that genuinely doesn't do a good job of it, but that was honestly just so stupid. I dunno maybe I'm wrong considering I'm a brand new Tekken player but what I've seen so far is amazing.
I’m not left leaning but agree with you 200%. These games have more diversity than ever and I refuse to let a few crazies dictate the conversation. It’s cool to say diversity is “woke” due to cultural bs but years ago it was an actual issue - but Tekken never really had those issues. That guy is just delusional. The anti woke are just as delusional on the other side. Diverse characters aren’t in games due to some liberal conspiracy, they sell games - period. Capitalism. Some in these comments literally see a black character in a game of Europeans and Japanese and scream “enforced diversity” haha.
oh yea for sure! everything you've mentioned are also pretty much inherent truths at the end of the day in modern society. Can never ignore the fact that at the end of the day, Capitalism is usually the inherent driver to pretty much any product looking to sell copies. Diversity typically helps sell copies and I think despite the fact it's all for a profit incentive, it's definitely done a lot of good in aspects, and can create some fan favorites or bring back fan existing fan favorites. That dude on twitter sucks, I always hate that these people give left leaning folks such a bad rep especially when theyre so vocal on twitter, when most that I know are pretty level headed and chill. It's definitely really silly to speak on topics you've barely even looked into without prefacing that you haven't at the VERY least. But yea man people just look for any reason to throw around the word it's lost all meaning, as if it ever had any useful meaning really to begin with. Leory, Raven, Characters like Nagoriyuki from guilty gear and ram, 9 times out of 10 if you ask the dev why they put them in they're basically just like, yea they're badass as hell and cool. Daisuke literally said he's been waiting for years to make a character like Nagoriyuki. There's plenty of sick examples everywhere for years. I might be a new FGC head of only 3 years now, but it definitely rubs me the wrong way people speak on our community and devs at times, because I really love a lot of our FGC devs that have made themselves known in the community. And literally speaking as black man myself, I've always felt right at home with all the Fighting games i've played. The devs definitely know how far the genre reaches across races. anyway this response be getting too long smh. hope you keep it easy for the rest of the week, thanks for giving me your thoughts they've made me feel a little less crazy for sure!@@thetachi5
@@thetachi5 "It’s cool to say diversity is “woke” due to cultural bs but years ago it was an actual issue" people said this because of very fucking valid and worrisome reasons, and you are literally seeing the results of it today
@@thetachi5and the only reason people scream that now is because of teens indoctrinated by controlled opposition "right wing" youtubers that just want fucking ad revenue money and behind closed doors money. The people in their 20's know better.
I'm a Tekken player and until watching this video in full but seeing the clip, I was skeptical of whether this was a hitbox issue. But the simple and wise thing to do is to not speak like you know something if you don't.
I didn’t even know there was an online debate going on about how blocking works. well I am glad I don’t play Mortal Kombat and refunded the game on steam i’mediately
The tekken roster does seem a bit "samey". However, that can be attributed to the artstyle and the game play style the devs have in mind which can limit your design choices somewhat.
The "overhead" and "antiair" logic for 2d games is very consistent. It is also incredibly stupid and counterintuitive. Honestly is bad design, that we are accostumed to.
I dont even play Mk1. Im just here for the free coffee. Im curious about something though. This Sikander person, is a pro player or something? Is this the first time he ever froze that opponent´s attack like that? Im guessing it will always wiff in the exact same conditions, when you do an overhead correct? Intented or not by the developers, being the case, it becomes what it is: something you cant Overhead. Not unless sometimes hits , others doesnt. Then yeah, he should be upset. So Sikander could,even as a pro, have ran into a new situation (been in a few frustrating ones too in tekken 7 , those angles on walls can cause a few OMG wiffs lol), and will be more aware next time about how to punish it. Not an MK player, once again. But this game seems to do an animation set, then there is a noticable "reset" glitch into normal iddle stance (probably due to the nature of the semi-2d aspect of characters i dunno). After being frozen, Tanya´s sweap animation, gets interrupted from its full animation attack, from what i see, then a suddent abrupt (lazy) one frame "im now suddently up" reset animation. But seems its coded to only act as "im standing now", after the full freeze is over. Shouldnt this Pro player know this? Anyway this is my 2cents, i subscribed, and enjoying your takes man. Thanks Edit: she was not frozen while laying down, so if overheads hit even crouching people, then it should have hit , i agree
While I agree that the move should have hit, the explanation why it should have hit, is not that "overheads are supposed to hit low to the ground" since this principle does not apply to all overheads. It should apply to grounded overheads, yes, but for example for jump in attacks (which also are overheads) can even on standing opponents depending on their active frames and your execution timing. Some whiff even when your are fairly low to the ground while in the air and people crouch. There are crappy moves and nothing should change about that either. But the definition of an overhead is not, that it is supposed to hit opponents low to the ground (not even part of the definition). The definition of an overhead is, that it is move that has to be blocked standing or it will trigger hit stun. And no, MK1 is not dying, nor is it going anywhere. Last time I checked was early December and it had about 3.3k players being active on Steam on a rolling average. It even slightly increased since then. And I will certainly not fanboy for this game. I think it is absolute trash and I moved on after torturing myself playing it for 300 hours. I am done. But there is a huge communty behind it and MK grew to become one of the biggest fighting games next to SF and Tekken.
I'm not a MK player, but to me it seems less like an oversight from NetherRealm Studios and more like an issue with how they don't use traditional hitboxes instead of the characters models straight away. Tanya isn't invincible to the overheads during the frozen state, given you even hit her with another overhead at 10:03, just the one during the match that didn't connect for having a higher hitbox than her hurtbox in that moment The real problem imo seems to be the inflamable comunity and inevitable tweet wars over any topic posted there, LMAO
I don’t play MK1. It looks like the guy swing Mid and failed to hit a opponent to low on ground. Now if you tell me that Chain is overhead. There a problem. A overhead should hit duck and grounded enemy. If it not combo at less should hit onces. Knock down or juggle up
just take a look at the MK subreddit. MK players nowadays are only interested in cosmetics and skins and singleplayer content, nothing else. they dont even care about online or competetive stuff. heck... I saw many people saying they prefer to play offline only and never even attempt to play online. I mean.. what the heck? Never seen this for SF or Tekken etc. MK and its community destroyed themselves, nobody else. I have 400 hours on MK1, I had my "fun" with it. But Im done, too. I guess. The negativity everywhere about MK is unbearable at this point. PC MK1 is dead as F, im playing the same 10 people every day... its stupid. I will go back for DLC releases etc. but not gonna play it every day anymore. And about MK players that bitch all day and have no clue about anyhting. I cant even tell how often I saw people (mostly on twitch chat...) talking about MK servers and how bad they are etc. Dude... and when you tell them that these fighting games are peer2peer and there is nothing in between them and their opponent, they dont even accept it or understand it. People complaining NRS servers suck because they have high ping always... they dont even CONSIDER that its their connection, and I bet they even use WIFI, too. MK community is so mega casual and clueless its astonishing.
Katt Williams said in last interview “we do not let losers rewrite history” what I’m telling you is this is this is your golden period and this video hit at the perfect time and if you can quickly use this “Exposing fake gaming” energy, you could in fact help with bigger issues past mk1 making you even more relevant. I would give you topics I know would be perfect but I don’t want other TH-camrs stealing the idea😂😂😂😂 hire me!!!
Them not knowing how fighting games work wouldn't be so bad if they just knew to STFU about stuff they don't know about while being properly informed by people who do. Here's to hoping they have to re-release MK9 to appease the fanbase while they de-list mk1 so they can fix it and relaunch when (or if) it actually works.
If a character's attack consistently fails in certain scenarios than its your fault as the player for not knowing that. Regardless if its a glitch or not because that's how the game functions. Wat I can say to sikander555, live and learn, hope nrs patches it.
While i don't think that mids or highs should hit as if they were standing (if thats how the game usually works with similiar interactions while frozen thats my ignorance on mk1 showing), the overhead should have definitely hit them.
The majority of people who play nrs games don't know how to play fighting games . Which makes sense , nrs as a studio don't know how to make a proper fighting game
The people that play NRS games usually are only there for the cool characters and moves, nothing else. Anyone talking about anything else deeper than how cool a character is, is already going into the game far more than likely 99% of the players who pick up games like Mortal Kombat/Injustice ever care to do.
I mean he is part of that community. He is very fitting as well. Like this whole "beef" sets thing he is doing is dumb. That's not beef. He is just running sets. But he is loud which is enough. None of this is like the beefs back in the day.
9:10 dude you are reaching so hard what is this? The reason why she gets back on her feet is due to the freezing animation resetting her position when it ends. The hurtboxes are still in a high crushing position. Do you know what high crush is?
as someone that doesn't play NRS game what happen actually make sense, the fact that NRS players are surprise by it is actually stupid NRS has for over a decade has pin their character hurtbox to the character model, unless there's a change to that design philosophy in MK1 there will always be fuzzy hurt boxes in the game
Bullsh!t. That Tanya move goes under projectiles.. so, with THAT understand’n, while he froze her IN THAT MOVE/IN THAT INSTANCE she was lower than she would have been even while duck’n. .. Overheads punish while crouch’n, in THAT INSTANCE she’s as low as she’d be while lay’n on tha ground. Plus, Sub’s launcher is a HIGH OVERHEAD. Go touch grass, Kid.
You not wrong but if you ducking a overhead still hits that’s why it’s made to get you outta that stance but her hit box is just glitch because they didn’t take their time properly show what you tryna state.
Man, I am so glad I left the MK and FGC scene. Even, if it was just the online communities, and as a online warrior. Just too much bitching and yapping over nothing. Can't stand the casuals, the pros, or NRS since year 1 of MK11 ended. Now, I just play casually, and spend most of my time labbing if I even play MK1. For the black dude dressed as Jade. You and Harada nailed it on one hundred percent. He was just virtue signaling while trying to fetch online brownie points. People like him force "diversity" and "representation" down every exsisting media that it's ironically turned into balatant racial tokenism.
I noticed that the animation of the OH is pretty bad, the hit doesn't even hit the ground, it like stops aSub Zero's knees. I play GG and SF6 and most if not all OH animations always hit the ground. This type of inconsistencies in animations is why I always didn't like NRS games, even the good ones.
Hey bro, great video! I think you misread my tweet here @8:24, i’m not sure why it was included in the “wrong” category but sikander reposted it because my statement was true. Great video again though, keep it up my man! Cheers!
Hey, bro. I was actually reading it as one of the tweets that made sense but I can see where I placed it made it look like you were agreeing with the loons haha. My bad. Appreciate the view and the tweet. The MK scene has lost its mind 😂
@@RealMikeHollow no worries and my pleasure! lol the MK community really is crazy, your Tekken gameplay makes me want to try that out. i’m subscribing have a good one!
I’m coming to tekken from mk1 and I fucking love it, i mained sub as well and that should’ve fucking landed that’s happened to me once in a match and I just stopped going for the clone when they was falling cuz I wasn’t tryna risk whiffing
Tekken player here... And looking into this from an outsider's perspective... You guys take this WAY too seriously. Even pro Tekken players don't even make a big deal out of these "inconsistencies".
Skill issue? The game is simply crap. NRS have no idea making good games anymore, but when you see the kombat cast you know why. These people are on drugs. I playing MK since the first one in the 90s and I never experience such a shit mk ever. Cant believe I spend 100 bucks for this crap and I cant get a refund on steam.
Hmm... I maybe not really into fighting game as much. The way she is frozen on ground. I can't really call it a ducking. It more then ducking. It basically laying on the ground.
Unrelated maybe but I remember Tekken 7. I did rage art and the other guy low kick. It clashed and we slide backwards into the corners. He slide left and I slide right. It was wrong never happened again
So I do agree with this video however keep in mind that one balancing updates happen sometimes developers have the ability to turn off properties and completely break moves. As a Tekken fan I've seen this a fuck ton We're just straight up entire attacks have been changed and are deemed useless because their properties were modified. I've seen mids get turned into fucking overheads and crushes get turned into pokes. And they updated the fuck out of Tekken 7 throughout its life cycle. There was A lot of baffling decisions as well when it came to the character choices regarding nerfs. I mean shit it almost took several different patches just to make Geese somewhat tournament legal. And that motherfucker still ain't legal on some regional tournaments. So yeah I can see where the confusion could come from
How can you study frame data, hit boxes and hurtboxes. You see I just play fighting games and figure things out while being in a match, whether it’s against a CPU or an Online player. Is there an easy way to understand all of this and keep it in your mind?
Many games either have it built into their training mode, if that's not available then there's always looking it up online. Though you really don't need to study it at all to get into playing, just remember which of your blocked or missed attacks lead to you getting hit/combo'd in what situation, then adjust from there.
This is what I do, so I main dragunov, he has a couple of punches that I found out by playing the game that the opponent moved back or could get punished just after the opponent blocked.
I just ignore people who say dumb shit like "Overheads shouldn't hit a crouching opponent" Literally is fundamental basics of Mortal Kombat games from MK9, MKX, MK11 and MK1. Note: in MK9 the overheads actually showed up as Mids but functioned as Overheads in every MK after. Sikander showed it in his video the best. He showed how he has done that exact same B2 off clone freeze when opponent was low to the ground and it worked vs 90% of the roster and sometimes vs Tanya. It's inconsistent with Tanya doing drill kick into clone because of her hurtbox being under the floor and only being hit by lows because lows have hitbox's that go under the floor Subs B2 doesn't go under the floor neither do his Mids or highs. But I've been around long enough to know NRS probably won't fix this. They have kept things like this in in multiple MK's like MKX and MK11 female hitbox's causing several combos not to hit when done perfectly but always work vs male characters. It's female hitbox's being smaller. NRS will most likely put it on matchup specific bugs and leave it in because once the player learns of the hitbox problem or the specific move, they can use alternative ways to combo in that matchup. This is what I was told in MK11 and MKX. If it was a big problem that greatly effected the matchup(making 5-5 a 7-3) or entire roster struggle against the specific hitbox/bug issues then NRS would spend the resources to fix it. But if there's only 5/30 characters that you encounter this problem with, like female hitbox's in MKX and MK11, then it's probably staying as a Matchup Knowledge check. I posted a video showing glitches with Omni-Man's highs that where supposed to be ducked, where jailed depending on if you block crouched or standing. I informed NRS of this and Stephanie Brownback said she didn't care because she's not a competitive player anymore and not her job to do balancing. Fair enough I tagged her in the multi person tag. They didn't care because it's a smaller issue in a specific matchup not a Tier List changing bug like a specific move making every characters moves wiff and unsafe as a glitch. I've been around a long time as a competitive player. Every MK has had numerous bugs/glitches, things like Player 1 Advantage, DSyncs, horrible Netcode and hitbox issues and usually horrible gaps in character balance. I'm used to it. Surprisingly enough, MK1 has glitches and DSyncs which I believe will get fixed if they are game breaking like P1 advantage and DSyncs. But MK1 has very good balance, the best a Mortal Kombat has since 2011 on day 1 of release and after their last patch most are in the same Strong Tier rankings (S Tier, with S+ as the top 5) The core gameplay is good. The only real problems is Netcode, DSyncs and on a casual players level: • Invasions Mode being horrible due to very low XP gain, very grindy. • needing more character customization and possibly more Kameo Skins. • lower tiers getting more buffs (Sub Zero, Scorpion, Reptile, Havik, Nitara and Quan) and all Kameos get buffs to be the strength and utility of Lao, Stryker and Khameleon.
It's not just the Mk community but it's a lot of people who are on X/twitter that don't get simple basic concepts that everyone should be able to grasp but don't
The guy in this video doesn't understand a thing about states. The reason why she gets back on her feet is due to the freezing animation resetting her position when it ends. The hurtboxes are still high crushing while she is frozen on the ground.
Overheads are meant to hit crouched opponent but high crushing is a different state than ducking.
I'll also add proofs from his own vid. The highs are completely missing her while she is frozen on the ground. PROVING the hurboxes are still high crushing anything at that moment, something not possible if she was considered standing while frozen.
@@bobibobbobino Bro he literally explains why she should've got hit in the video. You don't know what you're talking about
@@bobibobbobinoYou've used the term crouching and ducking, does MK1 actually differentiate and whsts the difference? I don't think MK differentiates. Tanya's sweep puts her in a crouching state, meaning all overheads should hit. If she is technically standing...the overhead should still hit lmao.
@@bobibobbobinoYou are wrong and overhead shoul still hit her.
Its sooo frustrating when the kids from Fortnite think they know how fighting games work.
Faaaacts bro 😅
I had a friend, he was huge into Fortnite and over 18, he said Fortnite is harder than Fighting games. I was like bro FRAME DATA is huge in fighting games and that’s harder than Fortnite because Fortnite doesn’t rely on Frame Data and studying frames like Fighting games……..homeboy said “Fortnite has drama data too”………😮😮😮😮 I was like no way he said that no way he literally said Fortnite has fighting game mechanics too…..
@@JoseSena-gs4tz To be honest Jose. I dont think you know how fighting games works either ;)
@@Raspotnik And TBH……you don’t know what you are talking about PERIOD so go find attention somewhere else 😇
@@JoseSena-gs4tz I played fighting games for years and years, kid. Just. Dont.
“if I have to suffer so do you” bro my eyes 😭
😂😂😂😂
Nah that cosplay pic was INSANE my eyes are burning
As a half black man yeah we don't claim him
Nothing can change skin color😂😂😂, so like it or not you still have to claim him😂😂😂
@@slowmojo9355 Says who I ain't claiming him
Yo, as a man, we don't claim him.
@@slowmojo9355 What we talking about bruh, the only people that can claim him is his family, and they might not be around considering that picture.
NRS doesn't know their own games. Their games has been "manufactured" and released. Since MK4, the various team behind MK never understood how a fighting game should look and feel. The animation looked clunky, the fighting was unfocused and broken. And the team never supported their games like how Capcom or Namco or dare i say SEGA.
At least business wise, the game companies in Japan has competition between themselves. Money after all money. But in America, NRS has no competition in terms within the country.
I always hated how inconsistent NRS hurt/hitboxes are. The female hitbix issue in mk11 still exists to this day where combos that work on men don't work on women. They should just extend the boxes outside of the characters model like every other fighting game
Tekken has the same kind of thing but it actually makes sense when characters vary in height and width. For example a combo that works on the bigger characters isn't consistent with females. In MK most characters are pretty much the same size though, there aren't a lot of hulking beasts walking around (at least not playable ones) so pretty much all combos should work the same on the whole roster
Or Johnny upward kick clearly not hitting his enemy but it still registers as a hit resulting in a full combo
Bro, female hitboxes is an issue that goes back to UMK3. Air combo starters that start with HP, won't work on female ninjas.
@@TheUltimateBastich and? That just makes it worse
@@bandawin18with tekken it's rarer as well assuming that when people say "they don't work on females" for MK that the mean the entire female cast but I don't play MK so idk.
But for tekken there's only a handful of characters (maybe a couple female characters who are smaller than everyone else and a few larger male characters bigger than everyone else. And the 2 bears ig lol) that are exceptions when it comes to combos working. And in a lot of combos those differences don't even matter.
I've said it so many times... MK online fandom is thee most TOXIC. Surely they all can be... but bro.... It's hot and cold in terms of wholesome vs toxic and it's rarely wholesome. Big emphasis on rarely.
Heh reminds me of day 1 online. My opponent kept cusing me because I always did the same combo. Whereas the guy constantly did the same launched with Raiden which I blocked then I proceded to punish. Basically he lost by his own fault for doing the same move over and over even when I constantly punished it.
And still called me a noob that just searched combos on TH-cam and what not.
Basically that guy if he couldn't hit the launcher he didn't do a combo. Won 2 matches in a row against him.
@KainGarland I beat a Lui Kang player just yesterday. We're both Demi God rank. He's playing like he just started doing things that literally don't make good sense. He loses bad and then I make the simple suggestion to "Zone more bro. Throw fireballs until they hate you lol." Yknow, instead of basing his nuetral on rushing me down and spamming the same staggers with no actual mix behind it.
He messages me back "Ur trash bro."
I told him "I am, so?"
Finally someone calls out the MK community... i remember being in college and there was a pretty sizable FGC scene there. Once i stated i really liked MKX over all the other fighting games they were so confused as to how i could like MK over all the others but they didnt shun me away because i guess they enjoyed my company but all the other MK supporters were ridiculed. Granted anyone can like something over other things but once i got real deep into the MK community, i realized how ignorant some of the people are, and thats putting it lightly. They really dont know what it takes to be a true fighting game. Now im a tekken guy.
tekken is goated as a former mk only fan too
Yeah no the MK community is really dumb. Most of the time when I mentioned 3D era characters they look at me crazy. Like "bruh why would you want any 3D era characters back. They all suck" but yet they always ignore the fact that NRS has brought back some of 3D era characters and improved on them a lot. Hell, even they improved on Tremor in MKX. But they always want the same mk 1-2 characters over and over again and that shit is boring. " Jade needs to be dlc because we need all the ninja girls" like bruh nobody ever played jade now all of sudden they want her? They also don't acknowledge the fact that the 3D era saved MK back in the day and expanded on the universe. But nah it sucks because it's not they og trilogy or a dumbass guest character like Peacemaker.
@Terminator-ht3sx yeah i think if MK ever went back to its 3d Era and made the game actually good and balanced, they'd turn a lot of heads. To put it simply, they like to paint with shit on a really well crafted, beautiful canvas.
@@seido1160 dang beat me to it now I sound repetitive..
@@erosenigma7 you're good lol
Thank you for calling out the ideology that there *HAS* to be diversity in any and every single piece of media. Mind you I’m not against diversity unless it’s forced, but I never understood the concept of being mad that someone didn’t put a character of your orientation in their franchise. I’ve seen plenty of Afrocentric things (using this example specifically because I’m black), many of them inspired by other series that weren’t, and highly doubt that they’d react peacefully to someone asking where their representation is. Nobody is obligated to include anyone and no one should feel entitled to that. Simple as that.
Tanya is enforced diversity and so is Janet Cage. In fact the whole story is enforced garbage in MK1
The problem with people that say they don't mind diversity "unless it's forced" is that they will often consider any diversity to be forced.
Like the one moron that just complained about Tanya and Janet fucking Cage, which is essentially a joke alternate universe character.
@@Yolozyx for real, netherrealm is losing their talent to greed and any possible way to make money
No idea how we’ve spun back to black characters being in an American game being bad or “enforced” from zero being included but you guys are just as effed as the “woke” crew.
Keep on exposing this clown of a community my guy, great content as always.
Thank you!
Okay, so there IS an explanation, but its not satisfying. So firstly, overheads are meant to hit crouching opponents. The hitbox for them are mids that are meant to get through low guards. The problem is the animation for tanya pulls her hurtbox EXTREMELY low. And because she was literally frozen in that position, her hurtbox was also frozen in that position. The overhead he used was built for crouching opponents, but not "laying down" opponents, if that makes any sense.
Just like in tekken, there are moves built to "low profile" highs, and sometimes certain mids. That string from tanya does just that, But lower
Exactly
I've always thought of MK's community as being the worst sub-community when it comes to fighting game knowledge, followed by Guilty Gear STRIVE's community. These people need to stop acting like they know everything. You should not be calling someone stupid unless you actually have the experience to back it up (even then, why? Just explain things, dude). These people in this thread apparently don't even know simple things like hit/hurt boxes, and they are calling Sikander stupid and saying it's a "skill issue", or "you should have labbed this", oblivious to the fact that Sikander was absolutely right in reacting how he did to Tanya being frozen so close to the ground. I can't believe one of them actually said that overheads aren't supposed to hit crouching opponents, I'm actually speechless from that one.
I use to be in the NRS fandom during MK11. They are nothing but bullies, and are pretty disgusting, too. One troll constantly was harassing me even when I left the fandom. Glad he was banned on Twitter, but it was the best decision ever leaving that community
While I agree that it should have hit (I'm also a Sub Zero player and he needs all the help he can get) I'd need to see the hit boxes... That said Johnny Cage will 45% combo you with ghost jabs that look like they shouldn't be hitting you at all, thus is the jank. MK has always been a simplistic, gimmicky fighter since it's inception and honestly, I love it for that. However as soon as it gets high level for someone that isn't a frame data mathematician, you very quickly see how imbalanced and janky it is. Then, you play something like Street Fighter or (especially) Tekken and the gap in depth is astonishing. That said, I cant go anywhere else to get my colourful "ninja" fix.
You don't really need to be a Frame data mathematician to see the problem here though. Overhead/high/low is all you need to understand. Other fighting games follow their rules so that way you don't have to pull out a microscope and zoom in on the pixel.
UPDATE!!!
Game has been out for a year at this point. Khaos Reigns is about to drop in a couple of days and Sub Zero is still bottom 3. Lame, buff Sub Zero already.
I always find it important to keep an open mind unlike some of the people in the FGC. I started studying frame data about several months ago and have improved since. I came across this and thought nothing was wrong until learning more about the hit box situation thanks to your Explanation!👏 I still have more to learn and have after watching this.
Happy to help!
I’m a casual gamer and even I can say sikander got robbed of the match. That overhead should’ve hit. Tanya was frozen in a low attack and an overhead attack can hit those. It’s even explained in tutorials. So for people to say otherwise is sad.
It’s honestly to the point where I still enjoy the game itself, but I’m genuinely embarrassed to be a mortal kombat fan/player. I feel just saying I like mortal kombat paints me in a negative light because of how toxic, cringe, and outright stupid the community has become
What’s crazy is that those people don’t consider themselves casuals because they’re kl players
Mk1 is dying, and the community is cringe as fuck!(for the most part) I stopped with Mk1 on "X"
Thank God we have Tekken 8 coming out soon
fr
Just because she resets to standing after getting hit, doesn't necessarily mean that she was in a standing state while frozen. Therefore I disagree that she ought to be considered in a standing state while frozen that low to the ground (i.e. it would make sense for high attacks and even mid attacks to whiff in that situation). That said, I 100% agree the overhead should have hit. It's an NRS issue.
lol i just added a comment, where i feel the same opinion. The code is set to standing state, after the freeze is over. If this is inconsistent and overheads do hit that, and this time it didnt, then he should be way upset sure. But if simply is a feature of the game (intended or not), then the only excuse for being angry would be its the first time he ran into this situation. Cos if its "a thing", and he knows it always wiffs, then being upset is pointless
Edit: I dont know if her attack is considered to be something that goes under highs (or overheads , i dont know this MK terminologies lol), even when not frozen. If not, then yeah, she should have been hit when frozen (because she is frozen in an attack, that probably equals crouching, not simply lying down)
The MK fandom is considered one of the worst in the FGC.
I didn't realize that being good at playing a video game made you a developer thereof. Just as using insults in an argument/discussion doesn't make your point of view the correct one. I don't think that it is a stretch to believe that a character's x and y positioning dictates how hit boxes interact. As a non-pro, I would ask the question, would Sub Zero's overhead hit Tanya if she were in the midst of that move while not frozen. If the answer is yes then for consistency's sake it should have hit when she was frozen. If not, then I would call it a design decision. The theory about her actually being in a standing position is speculative at best. Especially, if the glitch is the skipping of animation when transitioning from the frozen position to a standing position.
Either way, it's not that serious where you have to resort to bully tactics in order to make your point. Besides, if not for casuals purchasing the game, "pro players"/content creators might not have a game to whine about. Anyone who paid good money for the game has the right to voice their opinion on it ... even if they don't monetize their skill or opinion of it.
FYI 29:29 Zto 29:36 in the link below for your beloved game illustrates how the x/y coordinates can impact overhead hit boxes.
th-cam.com/video/0-8ab0jo8Ts/w-d-xo.htmlsi=btTh079qe6eCR-he
Dummy. It's not about an opinion. It's about the game being a broken mess. Wich is factual.
Proceed to sit down in the "but my feelings matter too" corner
@KasualShinok. That was a good answer. I can see you put a lot of thought into your response (as much as you could muster anyway). And by the way. I'll sit anywhere I please. If anyone needs a timeout, it's the one throwing a tantrum and calling people names over a little whittle video game.
Bro you sound dumb. OH in mk is designed to hit any and every opponent not stand blocking,. It doesn’t matter if you are underground OHs should always it. That’s the design of this fighting game. Listen again OHs hits ducking or duck blocking or on the floor opponents.
@ronaldreinhard3377 Bro you obviously didn't read my response with any understanding. It posed a question about the dev's intent and its consistency. It did not advocate one way or the other. The only thing I was definitive about was that I disagree with the tone of the discourse.. For example, saying things like "Bro you sound dumb", without first understanding what was actually said. But I'm learning to lower my expectations.
And btw, there is nothing dumb about asking questions ... it's only dumb when you think you have all the answers
6:00 bro cmon, that guy is obviously joking. No one would follow up their sentance with "🤓" if they were being serious lol
I was thinking that too but its still worth addressing their statements as they are
MK easily has the dumbest scene.
I swear once a week in one of my discords is a new NRS player comes in who is totally baffled by the concept of anti-airs. It's crazy how simplistic NRS approach to hurt/hitboxes is and how they are still super inconsistent by accident. Tekken ain't perfect but stuff like this really makes you appreciate something like Xiaoyus AoP.
0:42 . The sound of the controller droping in that clip was relatable. It summed it all up. Without words it sounded like “I’m done with this shit”. I swear how could you even debate wheter or not that should connect.
clip gave me a flashback to mk9 where kitana and mileena could crouch under sheeva's overhead...
Irony is that Tanya's drill move has her close to the ground where she should be able to go under projectiles in MK1 but it doesn't. Her slide should function like Sub zeros and Reptiles slide but it does not😅😂😅😂😅😂😅
So the fact her back 3 goes under his overhead is funny and ironic to me😂😅😂😅😂😅
tekken is the worst fighting game to accuse for lack of diversity, the game has mofos communicating on their own language and actually understanding each other somehow xD it has character of all backgrounds and ethnicities and they are all cool af
Aside from Lucky Chloe, we don't talk about her 😂.
Its funny how that dude Sikander have a mind of 6 years old kid.He defeated somebody in mk1 and told him "i hope you die" .Basically i am ashamed to even play mk1 anymore when someome that ignorant play that same game.
Thank you, dawg. i played so many fighting games as a casual, and even i knew that BS 😂😂😂 mk1 is just trash. tekken finna be hittin different this this year for fighting games for sure
This is a guess, but I would've thought that overheads just ignore the crouch block property. So the reason the move whiffed isn't an overhead issue but a hitbox and hurtbox issue. And I think it is similar in a way to Tekken. Mids ignore crouch block. When a move crushes a mid, it's just the hitbox missing the hurtbox but Namco has turned that into a gameplay mechanic
14:55 bro Saudi Arabia complained about a stage in Tekken Tag 2 where Allah was written on the ground and some felt offended because the fighters were literally stepping on God's name to them. Harada didn't make any fusses, he just pushed an update to remove that texture. Dude is far from a racist.
more countries than saudi arabia worship allah, islam has nothing to do with race. But I get what you're saying.
MK1 is kind of dogwater at the moment but i feel like its also the first NRS game that isnt a complete laughingstock in the wider fgc space. i mean "MK bad" is always going to be the prevailing sentiment because thats the popular way to think, but its really been doing well in my local scene and i enjoy playing it with my friends quite a bit even a few months after launch, which i really couldnt say for any other NRS game except maybe X.
If you're having a good time then more power to ya, brother.
Nah, MK1 is doing pretty bad and probably even worse than MK11. First week registration leaderboard for Combo Breaker 2024 was released a couple days ago and MK1 is not even in the Top 8, when that's the biggest NRS major in the US and the only offline Pro Komp qualifier left
gonna have to disagree. failed as a game not only a fighting game
@@Terminator-ht3sxYep. Lacking loads of content and options and terrible hitboxes. Johnny upward kick clearly doesn't hit the opponent most of the time but stil registers as a hit resulting in a full combo.
This game is a joke
You're gonna be begging to come back to MK11 despite your hatred for it
People in general have no idea how hit boxes and collission detection works let alone how the computer interprets the interactions. People think 3D models and environments are solid things that interact the way real solid things do. They see a woman spinning on her back on the ground and don't understand that the computer sees(or should) the same size boxes as if it was a woman crouching on the ground. People have little grasp of how games are made or work, and that's fine. But they shouldn't go mock others(let alone a top player) and get upset when they get backlash for being ignorant and stupid. On a tangent, way back when Killer Instinct was originally released in the arcades, this guy said to me "Dude I gotta find out which actress they hired for Orchid!" He actually thought KI was digitized video like Mortal Kombat.
I agree with you. The fact that jabs are missing while she is frozen completely destroys this TH-camr's argument. He doesn't understanding that states will reset you to the 0 position (neutral standing) whenever they end (aka frozen state ending). The hurtboxes and hitboxes must be very close to the ground in this very specific instance. Sikander is wrong to be mad, even if he's better than me.
Not only that ice clone reads as a high projectile I believe. So explain to me. How can the character get hit by a high projectile to get frozen? But not the overhead proceeding?
Idk, Ive always loved Mortal Kombat as a franchise I just wished they'd sell it to someone that actually knows how to make proper fighting games.
NRS/WB treats MK as if it was an IP arena fighter with very short life spans, poor support and packed up the @ss with DLC. They put more effort into the single player campaign than they do on creating a good fighting game and I kind of get it since more and more people buy the game exclusive for the single player story.
The playstyle in NRS games is so degenerate, it lacks any real depth, its so devoid of fundamentals that its no wonder why MK1 players are already complaining about the game being stale just a few months after its release, thats crazy.
I've said it before, but yeah. The MK community has no idea how their own game works. I dont expect them to understand other fighting games.
Darm tanya didn't even stand she magically appeared up again the hell
It's pretty obvious that frozen state has special properties, and that is most likely intentional.
Your definition of overheads is quite wrong. Generally speaking, Overheads are meant to hit crouching characters, not necessarily high crushing moves/stances/positions. Even though some games have that.
To have the answer, we'd have to enable visibility on the hitboxes/hurtboxes and test multiple different instances of high crushing moves against overheads in MK1, we could then test when frozen to compare. We'd immediately see whether it's intended or not. Is it confirmed by the Devs that high crushing positions are meant to be hit by overheads?
When characters does high crushing stances/moves, aren't they generally crounching to duck the highs?
So...Since they're crounching, the overhead would hit still.
@@MattTein Not equivalent. Ducking *has* high crush properties. Not the opposite. Stances leaving you on the ground with high crush properties will have their own hurtboxes.
It's definitely not a skill issue. I'd say more of a, "it hadn't come up yet so I didn't know it would miss" issue.
The animation physically misses Tanya. This is kind of where attention to detail comes in. You can either applaud the accuracy of the hitbox in that particular moment or feel completely cheated.
If Tanya had been say, frozen in the air and he had tried to uppercut her for some reason or did an anti air that missed because she was too high, this is the same concept. She was too low.
It missed. Tanya has a hitbox. The hitbox has dimensions and it was beneath what the overhead could hit.
I would argue that it clearly missed, why should it confirm?
It seems like the argument would be, well because it's an overhead and that's what overheads do even if they clearly miss on the screen.
If he knows it misses then he doesn't do it and this video is never made cause he wins, which shows that he'd never been in that exact situation and he relied on how he thought or felt like it should work but it didn't work that way.
I can't speak for what NRS was trying to do but the reason it missed was obviously the hitbox was either on the ground with Tanya or was missing.
It was on the ground with her because the lows hit which means people that don't like this are either complaining about having an accurate hitbox (for once) or are complaining that it isn't consistently accurate? Because the argument that "it's an overhead, enough said" is a bit lacking to me.
exactly I would much rather the hitbox/hurt box be accurately represented on screen
The argument isn't "it's an overhead therefore end of story." Games have rules and mk's rules clearly state that overheads hit crouching opponents. This is how the game registers information. If the games data registers "Tanya in a crouching State" then the sequence breaks the games rules. It's also a flaw in the overhead that it does not reach all the way to the floor. This is the same issue NRS had with things like anti-airs and why so many NRS players are awful at other fighting games.
@@MrMooMoo088 well, Tanya isn't crouching either so that argument doesn't hold. You don't know if Tanya is crouching or not.
You are assuming that in MK there is no other state of a character. Unless you can see the actual "flags" the character has you don't know what state the character is in, you can only make assumptions. You are also assuming it isn't something to do with the ability Tanya is using. Maybe it actually goes beneath overheads? I don't know and unless it was tested, no one else knows.
Though it would be hard since they can't freeze her but, has it been tested against other overheads? Shao's for instance actually hits the ground. Reiko's looks like it would miss also.
If Shao one hits then I'd say again, it's silly to argue that an attack that actually misses it's opponent cause his arms aren't long enough or the hammer doesn't reach far enough, misses.
No one complains when their characters arm isn't as long as someone else's and they don't have the same reach on their poke as someone else, this is literally the same thing IF overheads that reach the ground actually hit vs ones that don't.
If not and other overheads do hit, especially ones that are even visually higher like Reiko's that should miss if it's a hit box thing, then it is inconsistency and I would call it a bug.
An overhead is an overhead is an overhead isn't enough of a reason without knowing more details.
I'm not defending it it's just without more info I don't think anyone knows what it is.
You could possibly test it using the frost cameo with other characters.
@@gemcrim5904 no it isn't an Reach issue. It's a failed overhead and MKs longtime proven history of being very inconsistent. If the game doesn't flag her as crouching or standing...then where she is? Airborne? This is classic NRS failing at their own simplistic design...AGAIN.
@@MrMooMoo088 I don't know where she is. And neither do you. That's the point.
You just think there is no other state and maybe you are right but you can't know without actually looking and you can't look because that kind of information isn't available to you.
I doubt NRS would tell you if there are technical states that apply to characters while they are executing abilities and if they did it would probably be an answer that makes them look best vs an accurate one. It can be determined however if further testing is done with other overheads, at least to a degree.
The Reality is……the fighting game community HATES Sikander and they don’t understand much of fighting games like they should. It’s not us getting mad by them, it’s annoying how stupid people are and the fact they really believe what they say
They hate him because he's a little bitch. The guy know about fighting games, though.
The “you should have paved this” is very clearly satirical, there’s even a nerd emoji
14:36 That right there is Katsuhiro Harada's most epic ''W'' I've ever seen on the internet . Bad-ass seal of approval 👊.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the major difference between freezing your opponent in mk11 and mk1 is that if you froze your opponent in mk11 they froze in a set or one animation way.(I think they where in a stand position). In mk1, I noticed that they freeze in whatever position they are when the ice hits them. So in this example she was almost flat on the ground. And because of that, the testers or animators did NOT take into considération what would happen during an overhead.
So, yeah, bad programming and not a skill issue.
But we learned now what to do if your character freezes flat on the ground I guess.
When that clip was played in the video, I instantly just complete confusion cuz like how that whiff? I swear it is how I feel doing Kazuya combo in Tekken 8 Demo with DF+1 after 2 PEWGF and back 2 2 but then sometime it hits and sometime it whiff hard. That is rough... and If someone saying that overhead shouldn't hit, bruh tell them to go back to old FGs first before making argument
Mk1 is made for kasuals! Sik plays sub who is low tier but he knows more than the person who plays a broken character! Cuz as a sub he does micro duck, flowless block etc pretty much everything available in the game but a kasual who plays a broken character doesn't need to know all this!
I know this video is kinda old but I just wanted to say that coming from the perspective of an extremely left leaning person who doesn't even like to throw around the word woke (unless im being ironic), fighting games probably have some of the best representation nd diversity of the modern day, and pretty much of the past like what, 2 decades? Feels so silly to come for tekken out of all franchises, let alone the genre itself. I understand the sentiment maybe if it was worded differently or for something that genuinely doesn't do a good job of it, but that was honestly just so stupid. I dunno maybe I'm wrong considering I'm a brand new Tekken player but what I've seen so far is amazing.
I’m not left leaning but agree with you 200%. These games have more diversity than ever and I refuse to let a few crazies dictate the conversation. It’s cool to say diversity is “woke” due to cultural bs but years ago it was an actual issue - but Tekken never really had those issues. That guy is just delusional. The anti woke are just as delusional on the other side. Diverse characters aren’t in games due to some liberal conspiracy, they sell games - period. Capitalism. Some in these comments literally see a black character in a game of Europeans and Japanese and scream “enforced diversity” haha.
oh yea for sure! everything you've mentioned are also pretty much inherent truths at the end of the day in modern society. Can never ignore the fact that at the end of the day, Capitalism is usually the inherent driver to pretty much any product looking to sell copies. Diversity typically helps sell copies and I think despite the fact it's all for a profit incentive, it's definitely done a lot of good in aspects, and can create some fan favorites or bring back fan existing fan favorites. That dude on twitter sucks, I always hate that these people give left leaning folks such a bad rep especially when theyre so vocal on twitter, when most that I know are pretty level headed and chill. It's definitely really silly to speak on topics you've barely even looked into without prefacing that you haven't at the VERY least. But yea man people just look for any reason to throw around the word it's lost all meaning, as if it ever had any useful meaning really to begin with. Leory, Raven, Characters like Nagoriyuki from guilty gear and ram, 9 times out of 10 if you ask the dev why they put them in they're basically just like, yea they're badass as hell and cool. Daisuke literally said he's been waiting for years to make a character like Nagoriyuki. There's plenty of sick examples everywhere for years. I might be a new FGC head of only 3 years now, but it definitely rubs me the wrong way people speak on our community and devs at times, because I really love a lot of our FGC devs that have made themselves known in the community. And literally speaking as black man myself, I've always felt right at home with all the Fighting games i've played. The devs definitely know how far the genre reaches across races. anyway this response be getting too long smh. hope you keep it easy for the rest of the week, thanks for giving me your thoughts they've made me feel a little less crazy for sure!@@thetachi5
@@thetachi5 "It’s cool to say diversity is “woke” due to cultural bs but years ago it was an actual issue" people said this because of very fucking valid and worrisome reasons, and you are literally seeing the results of it today
@@thetachi5and the only reason people scream that now is because of teens indoctrinated by controlled opposition "right wing" youtubers that just want fucking ad revenue money and behind closed doors money. The people in their 20's know better.
I'm a Tekken player and until watching this video in full but seeing the clip, I was skeptical of whether this was a hitbox issue. But the simple and wise thing to do is to not speak like you know something if you don't.
I didn’t even know there was an online debate going on about how blocking works. well I am glad I don’t play Mortal Kombat and refunded the game on steam i’mediately
The tekken roster does seem a bit "samey". However, that can be attributed to the artstyle and the game play style the devs have in mind which can limit your design choices somewhat.
The "overhead" and "antiair" logic for 2d games is very consistent. It is also incredibly stupid and counterintuitive. Honestly is bad design, that we are accostumed to.
I dont even play Mk1. Im just here for the free coffee. Im curious about something though. This Sikander person, is a pro player or something? Is this the first time he ever froze that opponent´s attack like that? Im guessing it will always wiff in the exact same conditions, when you do an overhead correct? Intented or not by the developers, being the case, it becomes what it is: something you cant Overhead. Not unless sometimes hits , others doesnt. Then yeah, he should be upset.
So Sikander could,even as a pro, have ran into a new situation (been in a few frustrating ones too in tekken 7 , those angles on walls can cause a few OMG wiffs lol), and will be more aware next time about how to punish it.
Not an MK player, once again. But this game seems to do an animation set, then there is a noticable "reset" glitch into normal iddle stance (probably due to the nature of the semi-2d aspect of characters i dunno). After being frozen, Tanya´s sweap animation, gets interrupted from its full animation attack, from what i see, then a suddent abrupt (lazy) one frame "im now suddently up" reset animation. But seems its coded to only act as "im standing now", after the full freeze is over. Shouldnt this Pro player know this? Anyway this is my 2cents, i subscribed, and enjoying your takes man. Thanks
Edit: she was not frozen while laying down, so if overheads hit even crouching people, then it should have hit , i agree
Fate called it mk is dead wb killed it when they flop at movies and need money desperately what do you expect
tldr they forgot to add hurt boxes to some animations so things whiff like crazy in mk1
While I agree that the move should have hit, the explanation why it should have hit, is not that "overheads are supposed to hit low to the ground" since this principle does not apply to all overheads. It should apply to grounded overheads, yes, but for example for jump in attacks (which also are overheads) can even on standing opponents depending on their active frames and your execution timing. Some whiff even when your are fairly low to the ground while in the air and people crouch. There are crappy moves and nothing should change about that either. But the definition of an overhead is not, that it is supposed to hit opponents low to the ground (not even part of the definition). The definition of an overhead is, that it is move that has to be blocked standing or it will trigger hit stun.
And no, MK1 is not dying, nor is it going anywhere. Last time I checked was early December and it had about 3.3k players being active on Steam on a rolling average. It even slightly increased since then. And I will certainly not fanboy for this game. I think it is absolute trash and I moved on after torturing myself playing it for 300 hours. I am done. But there is a huge communty behind it and MK grew to become one of the biggest fighting games next to SF and Tekken.
I am so glad i gotten sf6 and granblue and waited for tekken 8 instead of getting mk1.
I'm not a MK player, but to me it seems less like an oversight from NetherRealm Studios and more like an issue with how they don't use traditional hitboxes instead of the characters models straight away.
Tanya isn't invincible to the overheads during the frozen state, given you even hit her with another overhead at 10:03, just the one during the match that didn't connect for having a higher hitbox than her hurtbox in that moment
The real problem imo seems to be the inflamable comunity and inevitable tweet wars over any topic posted there, LMAO
I think most times people say "skill issue" nowadays it's irony, so don't take it seriously.
I don’t play MK1. It looks like the guy swing Mid and failed to hit a opponent to low on ground. Now if you tell me that Chain is overhead. There a problem. A overhead should hit duck and grounded enemy. If it not combo at less should hit onces. Knock down or juggle up
Bro I got hit by a up3 when I was behind a Johnny 😢😢😢😢😢 his elbow hit me his elbow 😢😢😢😢😢
just take a look at the MK subreddit. MK players nowadays are only interested in cosmetics and skins and singleplayer content, nothing else. they dont even care about online or competetive stuff. heck... I saw many people saying they prefer to play offline only and never even attempt to play online. I mean.. what the heck? Never seen this for SF or Tekken etc. MK and its community destroyed themselves, nobody else. I have 400 hours on MK1, I had my "fun" with it. But Im done, too. I guess. The negativity everywhere about MK is unbearable at this point. PC MK1 is dead as F, im playing the same 10 people every day... its stupid. I will go back for DLC releases etc. but not gonna play it every day anymore.
And about MK players that bitch all day and have no clue about anyhting. I cant even tell how often I saw people (mostly on twitch chat...) talking about MK servers and how bad they are etc. Dude... and when you tell them that these fighting games are peer2peer and there is nothing in between them and their opponent, they dont even accept it or understand it. People complaining NRS servers suck because they have high ping always... they dont even CONSIDER that its their connection, and I bet they even use WIFI, too.
MK community is so mega casual and clueless its astonishing.
Katt Williams said in last interview “we do not let losers rewrite history” what I’m telling you is this is this is your golden period and this video hit at the perfect time and if you can quickly use this “Exposing fake gaming” energy, you could in fact help with bigger issues past mk1 making you even more relevant. I would give you topics I know would be perfect but I don’t want other TH-camrs stealing the idea😂😂😂😂 hire me!!!
Them not knowing how fighting games work wouldn't be so bad if they just knew to STFU about stuff they don't know about while being properly informed by people who do.
Here's to hoping they have to re-release MK9 to appease the fanbase while they de-list mk1 so they can fix it and relaunch when (or if) it actually works.
I was with you until you dropped that cos play picture. We did not also have to suffer.
😂😂😂😂 feel my pain bro 😔
If a character's attack consistently fails in certain scenarios than its your fault as the player for not knowing that. Regardless if its a glitch or not because that's how the game functions. Wat I can say to sikander555, live and learn, hope nrs patches it.
Im surprised how the game is even running, forget about player testing, did they even bother to debug any of the code?
It's literally just a hurtbox issue. Every MK has this. And yes ofc casuals are ignorant to how the game works
While i don't think that mids or highs should hit as if they were standing (if thats how the game usually works with similiar interactions while frozen thats my ignorance on mk1 showing), the overhead should have definitely hit them.
The majority of people who play nrs games don't know how to play fighting games . Which makes sense , nrs as a studio don't know how to make a proper fighting game
The people that play NRS games usually are only there for the cool characters and moves, nothing else. Anyone talking about anything else deeper than how cool a character is, is already going into the game far more than likely 99% of the players who pick up games like Mortal Kombat/Injustice ever care to do.
There was no hitbox/hurtbox overlap to initiate any sort of transition. All of her hurtboxes...are laying down flat. He missed
You are wrong her hurt box is supposed to be standing
@@Reaperofsouls113 Who told you that lmao? If this is the case, why can Tanya go under high projectiles with this move?
I mean he is part of that community. He is very fitting as well. Like this whole "beef" sets thing he is doing is dumb. That's not beef. He is just running sets. But he is loud which is enough. None of this is like the beefs back in the day.
Smash is easily the dumbest fighting game community ever. Excluding melee players.
9:10 dude you are reaching so hard what is this? The reason why she gets back on her feet is due to the freezing animation resetting her position when it ends. The hurtboxes are still in a high crushing position. Do you know what high crush is?
as someone that doesn't play NRS game what happen actually make sense, the fact that NRS players are surprise by it is actually stupid
NRS has for over a decade has pin their character hurtbox to the character model, unless there's a change to that design philosophy in MK1 there will always be fuzzy hurt boxes in the game
Lol, you’re the kind of person that Sikander and this video are talking about.
It's an overhead you dummy. Overheads are supposed to hit low ...
🤦
Bullsh!t.
That Tanya move goes under projectiles.. so, with THAT understand’n, while he froze her IN THAT MOVE/IN THAT INSTANCE she was lower than she would have been even while duck’n. ..
Overheads punish while crouch’n, in THAT INSTANCE she’s as low as she’d be while lay’n on tha ground.
Plus, Sub’s launcher is a HIGH OVERHEAD.
Go touch grass, Kid.
Facts
You not wrong but if you ducking a overhead still hits that’s why it’s made to get you outta that stance but her hit box is just glitch because they didn’t take their time properly show what you tryna state.
I wonder did Ed Boon seen that video??
It’s because mk is is not allowed in Asia that’s why the game dies so fast
That makes zero sense but go off doe🫤 the game died cause it's shit and buggy since day one
So how do you explain mk1 not being in combo breaker?
Man, I am so glad I left the MK and FGC scene. Even, if it was just the online communities, and as a online warrior. Just too much bitching and yapping over nothing. Can't stand the casuals, the pros, or NRS since year 1 of MK11 ended. Now, I just play casually, and spend most of my time labbing if I even play MK1.
For the black dude dressed as Jade. You and Harada nailed it on one hundred percent. He was just virtue signaling while trying to fetch online brownie points. People like him force "diversity" and "representation" down every exsisting media that it's ironically turned into balatant racial tokenism.
Omg that jade cosplay why bro? It was my first video of yours I'm traumatised💀 and again while I was typing c'mon!
😂😂😂 I promise I won't do something like this again (I'm lying)
Nah man it’s the game that brings that energy out of us. It’s a very rage bating game
I noticed that the animation of the OH is pretty bad, the hit doesn't even hit the ground, it like stops aSub Zero's knees.
I play GG and SF6 and most if not all OH animations always hit the ground.
This type of inconsistencies in animations is why I always didn't like NRS games, even the good ones.
Cook bro keep cooking and Jesus Christ I didn’t need to see that fucking picture 🤣😭🤣
Suffer with me 😂😂😭😭
blud waffles so much about fighting game knowledge but doesn't know what a low profile/high crush move is
Hello casual nobody.
Which part of “an overhead being Low profiled should never happen “ did u not understand?
Hey bro, great video! I think you misread my tweet here @8:24, i’m not sure why it was included in the “wrong” category but sikander reposted it because my statement was true. Great video again though, keep it up my man! Cheers!
Hey, bro. I was actually reading it as one of the tweets that made sense but I can see where I placed it made it look like you were agreeing with the loons haha. My bad. Appreciate the view and the tweet. The MK scene has lost its mind 😂
@@RealMikeHollow no worries and my pleasure! lol the MK community really is crazy, your Tekken gameplay makes me want to try that out. i’m subscribing have a good one!
I’m coming to tekken from mk1 and I fucking love it, i mained sub as well and that should’ve fucking landed that’s happened to me once in a match and I just stopped going for the clone when they was falling cuz I wasn’t tryna risk whiffing
Bro couldn’t even spell unapologetically right🤦🏾♂️
Question for Soul Calibur5 who did you main?
Guys look closely at the thumbnail
Tekken player here... And looking into this from an outsider's perspective... You guys take this WAY too seriously.
Even pro Tekken players don't even make a big deal out of these "inconsistencies".
Skill issue? The game is simply crap. NRS have no idea making good games anymore, but when you see the kombat cast you know why. These people are on drugs. I playing MK since the first one in the 90s and I never experience such a shit mk ever. Cant believe I spend 100 bucks for this crap and I cant get a refund on steam.
Just get SF6 or Tekken 8, man. Much better games.
@@ChrisNichols-hs2yc SF6 is good, Tekken become boring very quick too
Hmm... I maybe not really into fighting game as much. The way she is frozen on ground. I can't really call it a ducking. It more then ducking. It basically laying on the ground.
Unrelated maybe but I remember Tekken 7. I did rage art and the other guy low kick. It clashed and we slide backwards into the corners. He slide left and I slide right. It was wrong never happened again
So I do agree with this video however keep in mind that one balancing updates happen sometimes developers have the ability to turn off properties and completely break moves. As a Tekken fan I've seen this a fuck ton We're just straight up entire attacks have been changed and are deemed useless because their properties were modified. I've seen mids get turned into fucking overheads and crushes get turned into pokes. And they updated the fuck out of Tekken 7 throughout its life cycle.
There was A lot of baffling decisions as well when it came to the character choices regarding nerfs. I mean shit it almost took several different patches just to make Geese somewhat tournament legal. And that motherfucker still ain't legal on some regional tournaments. So yeah I can see where the confusion could come from
How can you study frame data, hit boxes and hurtboxes. You see I just play fighting games and figure things out while being in a match, whether it’s against a CPU or an Online player. Is there an easy way to understand all of this and keep it in your mind?
There's nothing more boring than studying frame data, just play the game
Just get an idea about frame data in general and then you'll find yourself understanding it as you play
That me also. I just figure it out as I go along. You end up understanding what you can and can't do.
Many games either have it built into their training mode, if that's not available then there's always looking it up online. Though you really don't need to study it at all to get into playing, just remember which of your blocked or missed attacks lead to you getting hit/combo'd in what situation, then adjust from there.
This is what I do, so I main dragunov, he has a couple of punches that I found out by playing the game that the opponent moved back or could get punished just after the opponent blocked.
*ARMORED CORE 9 IS LOOKING GOOD* 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I just ignore people who say dumb shit like "Overheads shouldn't hit a crouching opponent"
Literally is fundamental basics of Mortal Kombat games from MK9, MKX, MK11 and MK1.
Note: in MK9 the overheads actually showed up as Mids but functioned as Overheads in every MK after.
Sikander showed it in his video the best. He showed how he has done that exact same B2 off clone freeze when opponent was low to the ground and it worked vs 90% of the roster and sometimes vs Tanya.
It's inconsistent with Tanya doing drill kick into clone because of her hurtbox being under the floor and only being hit by lows because lows have hitbox's that go under the floor
Subs B2 doesn't go under the floor neither do his Mids or highs.
But I've been around long enough to know NRS probably won't fix this. They have kept things like this in in multiple MK's like MKX and MK11 female hitbox's causing several combos not to hit when done perfectly but always work vs male characters. It's female hitbox's being smaller.
NRS will most likely put it on matchup specific bugs and leave it in because once the player learns of the hitbox problem or the specific move, they can use alternative ways to combo in that matchup.
This is what I was told in MK11 and MKX.
If it was a big problem that greatly effected the matchup(making 5-5 a 7-3) or entire roster struggle against the specific hitbox/bug issues then NRS would spend the resources to fix it.
But if there's only 5/30 characters that you encounter this problem with, like female hitbox's in MKX and MK11, then it's probably staying as a Matchup Knowledge check.
I posted a video showing glitches with Omni-Man's highs that where supposed to be ducked, where jailed depending on if you block crouched or standing. I informed NRS of this and Stephanie Brownback said she didn't care because she's not a competitive player anymore and not her job to do balancing. Fair enough I tagged her in the multi person tag.
They didn't care because it's a smaller issue in a specific matchup not a Tier List changing bug like a specific move making every characters moves wiff and unsafe as a glitch.
I've been around a long time as a competitive player. Every MK has had numerous bugs/glitches, things like Player 1 Advantage, DSyncs, horrible Netcode and hitbox issues and usually horrible gaps in character balance.
I'm used to it.
Surprisingly enough, MK1 has glitches and DSyncs which I believe will get fixed if they are game breaking like P1 advantage and DSyncs. But MK1 has very good balance, the best a Mortal Kombat has since 2011 on day 1 of release and after their last patch most are in the same Strong Tier rankings (S Tier, with S+ as the top 5)
The core gameplay is good.
The only real problems is Netcode, DSyncs and on a casual players level:
• Invasions Mode being horrible due to very low XP gain, very grindy.
• needing more character customization and possibly more Kameo Skins.
• lower tiers getting more buffs (Sub Zero, Scorpion, Reptile, Havik, Nitara and Quan)
and all Kameos get buffs to be the strength and utility of Lao, Stryker and Khameleon.