Here's why THIS comparison is POINTLESS. M1 Ultra 64 core vs 12900k & RTX 3090
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 มิ.ย. 2024
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When Apple went on stage at the spring event, they boldly claimed that the M1 Ultra Apple Silicon can beat a core i9 12900K and an Nvidia RTX 3090 in some rather unspecified benchmarks. So now we're going to put them to the test. In this Mac vs PC we'll pit the Mac Studio against Alder Lake and Nvidia to see what happens. It also reveals some of the pitfalls with comparing such different platforms...
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Time stamps
0:00 Intro
0:48 Sponsor
1:48 Spec sheets and test info
4:51 Synthetic benchmarks and why they suck
6:14 Gaming benchmarks
8:04 Real world tests
9:21 Thermal comparison
10:57 Analysis
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As a gamer on the desktop side at least the PC is the obvious choice. But the M1 series of chips is spectacular on the notebook side of things. My M1 MacBook Air is the best laptop I've ever owned by a significant margin. I think people need to be a little more pragmatic with computer choices and pick whatever works best for their use case. Brand/platform loyalty is silly.
Well put
m1 laptop + PC is the best combination is imo the best combination for most general purpose consumers who need both of them
This.
@@RashidTak exactly
You are totally right, but you have to remember that the vast majority of people are not tech-savvy.
The average consumer has some sort of brand loyalty because they bought X product from Y brand once and it worked well for them. After that good experience they'll likely buy stuff from the same brand again because they know that their products just work. Brand loyalty does not come from silliness the majority of time, but from pure laziness and convenience
I like how Luke is not biased with his reviews. Not like other channels where Macs cannot go wrong and any apple device gets hyped as ffff. I own a MBP M1 Max, Mac minis, a PC laptop, and a very beefy gaming PC as well, so not hating on anything here, I just like how Luke does it.
Appreciate it!
Must be nice 😓
@@MooseX2012 We gon’ get it one day (day) one day
@@lukemiani We appreciate you for your work! 👍
Lmaoo im assuming you were talkin abt MAX TECH? hahaha
As a long time PC Master Race user, it's pretty impressive how powerful & energy efficient the Mac Studio is considering it's small form factor.
I’m hyped as to see what the Mac Pro can do with a more typical form factor
As a long time PC user it's pretty horrible how unoptimized CPU and GPU voltage/frequency curves are with default settings because Intel, AMD and Nvidia are chasing that top spot in benchmark graphs and don't care about power efficiency... With undervolt you can significantly reduce power consumption with only negligible performance loss.
God reddit ruined everything
and pointless too. The amount of money saved by its "power efficiency" is in no way going to close the gap between a custom built Threadripper Quadro Combo. Let alone and Intel 3090 combo. The M1 Ultra isn't the 4k mon mon option, That's the M1 Max with abysmal storage.
It's ARM dummy
That NZXT case has the airflow characteristics of a hermetically sealed door
*with a small drill hole in the side
It's so bad
He couldn't have picked worse case than this one, literally one of the worst airflow cases that prefers aestetics over performance.... There is only one worse scenario and thats O11 dynamic with 20+ fans inside with negative air pressure and rgb puke all over, just because why not.
@@markthestark1 even the h510 Flow, which is basically the exact same case but with a mesh front, would have been way better.
THIS GUY IN THE VIDEO IS NOT MASTER RACE, HE BUYS A PC CASE WITH 2 FRONT MOUNTED FANS THAT ARE COVERED WITH A GLASS PANEL.
..............
...................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can install as big a radiator as you like, but if it’s pressed up close to a glass front you’re always going to be stuck with temps like that. NZXT has (finally) realised this, and now the Flow version of the H510 looks much better ventilated.
I thought the same thing. Even outside of better performance, the 510 just... looks so much better with the perforated front. H510 Flow should have just been the standard. Hell, I'd probably buy a H710 if they did a Flow variant of that.
I mean this case won the most of the worst case design awards during release.
But I really love the energy efficiency part of Mac studio would be great for some one living off grid or wanting to optimise their energy usage
@@MayankJairaj Just undervolt and slightly underclock a PC's hardware, bam you get all of the capability of a PC with all of the "efficiency" of an Apple overpriced RISC novelty. And you can run all of the software you need to run for off-grid control because you aren't in MacOS.
@@CyberneticArgumentCreator this entire thread is stupid for the reason that you're assuming the massive efficiency difference in thermals is coming from the case somehow, it isnt, in they both DRAW drastically different wattages, so the heat management on the apple machine can afford to be tiny compared to the pc, and the pc needs to end up using most of its internal space for air, the efficiency difference comes from the fact its using arm and not x86. undervolting your pc is gonna ofc lower power consumption and watts, which ofc lowers heat output, but that doesnt increase the efficiency
For me, the performance in this size isnt whats amazing, its that the entire system is self contained in this size. Normally manuifacturers will use an external power brick to avoid thermal issues with the power supply being so close to hot components, or causing interference with the switching of the PSU causing a bit flip in RAM/SSD. But no, Apple gave up internal space, for an admittedly dangerously exposed power supply
Only problem is, not being able to upgrade the system the PC will be able to upgrade to a RTX 4090 next year the mac won’t be ever be upgradable same goes for storage pc can go to 100Tb if wanted mac is stuck at what you order
dangerously exposed power supply ia even an understatement. Heck I'm neverous taking my iMac apart for that reason.. The studio is straight up dangerous.
@@genericchannel9448 there’s no need to upgrade but if you do, you can always resell and recoup your money
@@chidorirasenganz ahh dang. I need more memory. Time to sell the computer. 🤣
@@joelv4495 ehh memory needs don’t change that often
Your PC build is absolutely gorgeous!! I know your a Apple/Mac Channel, but this thing is just jaw dropping to me!
That's the problem, that case is one of the best looking cases ever. But the airflow is as trash as it gets
@@danmarm5357 its literally sealed, surprised they didn't add rubber seals lol
@@danmarm5357 Yeah, airflow is just not enough for sure
When Gamers Nexus tested the 12900K on a test bench with a cheaper AIO, they never went over 75 degrees. The thermal throttling Luke is seeing means his results aren't very accurate compared to how a 12900K is expected to perform. Notebookcheck has a couple Cinebench R23 scores listed and they are all higher than 24,190 (one is as high as 27,000).
@@lukemiani Lian lI offers way better airflow and similar look
A common thing people leave out of this is the bare power consumption. The fact that you can compare them performance wise (as Luke said) is incredible. However, if you add the difference in how much power they each consume to generate that much performance, the Mac Studio smokes the PC. This is the single most incredible thing about this machine for me and puts the last nail in the coffin.
The Tech Buyer's Guru has done videos on top mounted vs front mounted and 280mm vs 360mm and the performance gains are basically non existent. I think your AIO is performing bad because the front panel is glass with no ventilation.
It's has ventilation is just bad. Also front is alot better if you have a heavy gpu load.
Also he used case fans. Not the pressure optimized fans.
It would make some difference but only a few degrees.
It is better in many cases, if your case front is not meshed, as you also noted. In a case based around air flow it won't matter but in most cases made to show off your hardware it can be quite a difference
Hey Luke thanks for the comparison it would actually be amazing to see some gaming performance on the M1 Ultra, keep it up I’ve been watching you for years and its always nice to see you get better and better I bet that subscriber count is broken or something. This channel definitely deserves more but of course with time you will get what you deserve with your work. Thanks again! Bye!
You nailed it. Great video. Thanks, Luke! 💜
Great comparison! This is a head scratcher for me… I have worked in Fine Art printing and publishing for the past 20 years, and up until 2020 we needed a really beefy desktop setup with a ton of RAM to handle the creation and printing of large image files. All that changed when the M1 Macs came out. I can now create with wild abandon… Make layer after layer at massive sizes with no beach balls or stalls… all on an M1 Mac Mini with 16GB of RAM. It is ridiculously better and faster and cheaper than the Xeon cheese grater Mac with 64 GB of RAM that it has replaced. I also switched from Photoshop to PixelmatorPro… and so optimization definitely makes a big difference. I think the Studio is impressive, but considering I work in a studio neither the PC or the Mac Studio fit the bill, they’re too expensive and not really made for what I do.
would be careful. The M1 loves to do data swapping between SSD and RAM too give you that capability, and since the SSD are soldered there is no replacing them or easily recovering data if they fail after heavy reads and writes (which is probably the weakest link with the new apple products). Keep a good backup system and you will be off to the races.
What I want to see is a complete roundup of each M1 chip in their respective max configuration, to truly show what each chip is capable of. Seeing what you get from a M1 vs Pro vs Max vs Ultra and their respective prices would be a great way to have a single video for price to performance comparisons
Max Tech has already gone through all of that - you can pull data from his MacBook Air comparison, and pull data from the MacBook Pro comparisons, then pull the data from his Mac Studio comparison - and Voila! He runs the same benchmarks for all of those chips. I even went back to look to see how my 2009 8-core iMac compared to these chips, considering he's running the same Adobe Lightroom and FCP/DaVinci Resolve benchmarks between 2019 and 2022...
Here's a start:
M1 Max 10 cores = 1:52
M1 Pro 10 cores = 2:57
2019 5K 8-core iMac = 3:14
I didn't bother with the 8-core M1 nor the 8-core M1 Pro options. Those variants are really easy to find. Max is killing it with his tests.
The sound, or lack of it, is amazing during the work day. Will always have my PC to fire up for gaming but would love to see a video on the state of gaming on M1.
There are already multiple videos on TH-cam with that. TLDR; It's OK for basic gaming but horrendous for actual gaming. Slightly longer; This is mainly due to lack of support for any of the mainstream graphics frameworks like Vulkan or DX12. There will of course always be a few bigger games that will support Apple's Metal framework and those who do generally get decent performance, like World of Warcraft. But most developers won't spend the time to port their game to an ENTIRELY different graphics framework that only gets them 0.5% playerbase. Case in point, Rocket League dropped Mac support because it was too expensive to support and only had 0.3% of their playerbase. Until Apple will support Vulkan, or major game engines like Unreal Engine supporting porting to Metal built-in, I don't see gaming on Mac going anywhere any time soon.
Very good content, love it. I just subscribed 👌🏾
Very good video! best information among so much other comparison videos. good Job!
That is a beautiful PC you have there, also Apple's design team has been really consistent and good since the Apple II came out, 45 years ago. Good video as well!
Hey Luke! As I only do music composition and orchestration, the Mac is the best option for me. I do not do video editing, so the Mac Studio is actually a bit of overkill for me. Ideally, in the desktop world, a Mac "Midi" version of the Mini with additional ports and the M1 Pro chip, 32 GB RAM and 2 TB SSD would be my next computer. The MacBookPro 16" is my only real option from Apple currently at $3499. I am currently running an OLD late 2011 MacBook Pro 17" (1920x1200) with 2.4 GHz i7 quad core with 16GB RAM and an internal 4 TB SSD !!! Yes that is NOT any typo! I have loaded it with Mac OS HIGH SIERRA !!! It does not bog down when running Sibelius music notation software with Noteperformer AI & Pianoteq VST instruments. I run the internal audio & video hardware that came with this laptop - total cost for this old laptop and upgraded parts was ONLY $1700 USD !!! I don't do gaming. BTW: I am a 66 year old semi-retired CADD drafting designer and church organist. I also do musicological research internationally and commisioned orchestrations for private clients. I love your channel - a real big fan ! I bought the 2011 17" MB Pro based on your analysis video of it rather than spend $4k on the latest MB Pro 16". Thanks for the great advice - I love this less expensive alternative!!! Maybe in 5 years I'll consider an Apple Silicon chip - for now I'm setup!
One of many of us that would prefer that sort of m1 pro desk top option. The fact that there is still an intel mac mini on sale is very suggestive that this sort of option will come sooner or later with the mac mini model range. The view seems to be with an M2 which suggest quite a long wait.
If you could live with 16GB then maybe the M1 could be enough? it's incredibly capable for audio work; specially compared to a 2011 model. that depends on how much you use big orchestral libraries but for me I find there's pretty much no limit to what I can do with an M1 with 16GB. If not then the M1 pro mac mini will probably get released eventually.
I think you may consider the next Air (M2) or the next Mac Mini with 16 GB RAM and an external enclosure for your 4 TB SSD so you can connect it easily. Ports can be solved by a special Mac Mini hub. Just a thought.
@@nickbrough8335 I hope to have another 4-5 years before I need to upgrade again. By then who knows how Apple will advance their chips?
@@valdir7426 16 is probably enough with the M1. By the time I’m ready to replace my current unit I may need more as you suggest based on the libraries I might be using by then. I like the idea of a Mac mini pro for the future-proofing aspect.
Very interesting Luke, nice work as always.
One of best videos I have seen regarding this comparison, very real, very honest and points out things that those considering either should be considering! Thanks Luke!
Corsair AIO in an NZXT case. Absolute madlad.
About the PC temperatures... that's mostly a problem of the case. A midtower with little to no air intake is not gonna be able to handle a 12900k and a 3090. A different, perhaps bigger case with better airflow would solve a lot of your problems. Also, you don't really need an AIO. They don't perform that great. A high quality Noctua air cooler would do just fine... in that better case.
Yeah, AIOs are better but not so much better than the noctuas. Might as well go for a soft tubing EK setup if you wanted better peformance :)
I think the main issue is airflow. A 3090 in a NR200P will max out at ~74c under full load. Case size generally doesn't matter as long as you have solid airflow.
THIS GUY IN THE VIDEO BUYS A PC CASE WITH 2 FRONT MOUNTED FANS THAT ARE COVERED WITH A GLASS PANEL.
..............
...................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the 12900k requieres atleast a 360 aio to have barely optimal temps. the Noctua cant handle that bitch
I want to know!!!! Great job Luke.
most logical video analysis about the comparisons ive seen so far. well done.
This video is so crucial. No matter what platform you have optimisation is key. This is lost to many. Keep up the good work.
Nah run the m1 on Windows
There is something to be said for the tight integration between hardware and software, and the quality of the software.
Apple added hardware to the M1 to make it faster for running an x86 app (the memory model). It's one reason Rosetta'd apps don't take nearly as much a hit on Apple as other emulator / translator layers do on other ARM devices
They also design the native architecture around being super great for the things most people do with them most of the time - running JavaScript, for example, where every number is a float. Apple puts in some really killer floating point units in these things, cranks up the instruction cache, puts in an enormous reorder buffer. As a result, Apple chips just blaze through all the kinds of things web apps have to do
it's not just that, besides in x86 also the fp units are upgraded constantly. optimization is much more viable in apple's system, same cpu-gpu in all models, just less or more cores. windows and pc cannot realistically have that level of optimization due to the wide variety of different hardware options. windows was always about compatibility. imagine if windows was specifically optimized for the core-i9 and the 3090!!! you can see a sneak peak in the ps/xbox consoles. the hardware is a powerless x86, yet the games run amazingly with no slowdowns...
@@giornikitop5373 To test raw, fair hardware performance, we need something like Gentoo Linux, but nVidia refuses to cooperate with the community and made their driver impossible to be re-engineered after reverse engineering. So in the end it's still their fault to blame.
And also 3090 is not the bleeding edge of performance on the Desktop side. For fp32 performance, the Quadro A6000 is much better and draws less power.
@@posthsc2635 The Quadro is no Desktop card, it is a workstation card, server card that card that costs alone more than the Mac
Very sensible comparison, you brought up some really important points and factors and use-case scenarios which people often glance over.
Thank you for your video, it is so clear and you have discussed important points!
Great video! It’s clear to me the hardware is miles ahead of the software at this point on the Mac side. Maybe in 6 months to a year, we’ll bell seeing much more optimized software for the Mac.
I appreciate this content. You hit the nail on the head. As my dad said back in the day when I was young .. "Use the right tool for the job"
I don't run the latest and greatest because I want stability or something familiar that I can predict issues or quickly fix and mitigate old issues if the do rear its ugly head.
The "M series" presented by Apple makes me excited when I remember the first Mac Pro running the 68K and Power PC procs... I appreciate the work they put into the intel platform but as we very well understand: "sometimes you have to buck conventional wisdom to innovate." That is exactly what Apple has done. Intel and AMD are doing the same thing and it is a great time to see what they come up with. I hope and pray that the "spin" corporations put on their products get taken with a grain of salt. Will I get an M-Series Mac.. Yes.. will I replace my aging Intel deployment? not yet. Why? it still works for me. Yes the heat and power consumption is a compelling reason to jump from one architecture to another but at what expense of constant trouble shooting because of haste to get the best of the best.
I see the benefits of both..but I do appreciate the ability to upgrade those the old macs of yore have as well as the options of windows or linux on the intel / AMD side. as for the GPU. I feel a reckoning is coming up in regards to the sheer amount of power required to get all the performance we pay for for discrete components. Also the workflow.. what is your workflow vs mine.. they could be greatly different. I worked with a client that is mac based. Like all that adopt an ecosystem are very cautious of moving to another cpu architecture... professional audio and video people do not like migrating to other platforms every two years.. its just not sustainable unless you run your business as a lab (CI/CD) ...This is probably one of the best videos regarding such topic that I have seen to date.. I apologize for the wordiness of this comment . I am appreciative of your views regarding such. Stay blessed and keep the content flowing.
PEACE!
Love the video, just wondering what music you used in the b - roll about 1:30 in because it sounds sick!
Luke, great video (as usual!). Where can I get my hands on the desktop picture shown at 7:40 (and hopefully more like it!)? Would love to know.
I wonder how the Blender renders will perform when the bucket sizes for rendering is increased to 512 or even higher! The Mac Studio has insane amounts of VRAM and yet every video I see nobody has talked about bucket sizes for 3D rendering that utilizes the 64GB of VRAM!
Yeah that would be interesting, what is also always left out of blender benchmarks is the snappiness of the interface and geometry operations. For me this is what improves the workflows, I render over night so I don’t mind if it takes 6x longer.
@@lupus7297 Exactly! The viewport performance for me is the most important part! For Rendering I either do it overnight or I can even spend some money on render farms if its a time sensitive render.
Maybe, if I'm correct in saying, is because the new version of Cycles in Blender doesn't use buckets any more....
Great video! I couldn't agree more. This comparison is exactly what I have found as well. I think the big thing is that having a power efficient desktop is a nice to have, not a need to have. Unlike a laptop where it becomes a need to have.
Thanks so much for your review! Well balanced perspective giving multiple angles of consideration and good nuances. Definitely value your thoughtfulness… very helpful. Keep up the great work!
superb video! very informative and well presented
Have to say THANK YOU for "lower is better" and "higher is better". You're awesome 👍👍👍
I would prefer the Custom PC only about the upgradebility and the variability of the components. As always a Great Video and Comparing between both.
Not to mention when you open it up for the annual dusting, you won't be greeted by an exposed-PSU death trap.
@@pirojfmifhghek566 and you wont need to break it to take it apart kekw that freaking rubber round feet
Hi Luke, this is a fantastic video, thank you!
love the honesty and explanations. Definitely subscribing!
If you are a video editor, which I am, you can bring the Mac Studio on the road with you for remote editing in a hard case.
Wouldn't a MacBook Pro make much more sense since you'd also need a monitor, keyboard, and mouse?
@@whenhen The point is. you can. Also nobody I know can edit serious long projects on a laptop screen.
@@mrfroopy But with laptop you have a monitor. With Mac Studio you don't. And if you're taking Mac Studio somewhere where is a monitor, well, there you have a second monitor for MBP so you can work even better.
@@mrfroopy You can build an ITX PC and also take it with you. If u are working on the go constantly, a laptop is the way to go...
I would love to see some of the ryzen mini pc’s compared to the Mac. They can’t game very good either but they do have many cores for work and low power usage. S500+ morefine is even smaller then the Mac mini and 1/5 the price
You can make one yourself, mine is a little bit more slim than the apple thingy but more length.
Top Quality content, keep it up Luke. 👌👌👌
Great analysis @Luke proves that when it comes to which is better, it really depends on what you’re measuring.
It’s… annoying.lol From both sides. As a Mac user, it’s annoying that there are slots but they’re disabled. And of course annoying that there’s no upgrade path. I still fear the path of the G4 Cube, though I’m hopeful they’ll stick with it this time. As a PC user it’s annoying that with all my 16 cores, 32 GB RAM, all NVME SSDs, and discrete graphics that my M1 MBP 13in w/8GB RAMis more responsive in Premiere and quicker to export in Premiere.
But that’s why I run both systems. Best and worst of both worlds. It’s nice to see Intel making solid moves now though. Sad it took AMD and Apple eating their lunch to do it.
Long story short. Competition is great.
Yeah, I am on a too tight budget to have both so I choose the pc as it is more versetile in the end. If you have tons of cash in a sock somewhere go for it lol
Great video!
It’s so impressive what Apple has done with hardware in such a short time, I just wish it worked better for 3D and game creation work, most programs for that don’t work on macs, sadly
Short time? They've been working on m1 for 5+, years
1:00 The wallpaper on your desktop looks oddly familiar 👀
I like the vertical linear lights you have in your space. Where did you get them?
It would be interesting to come back to the Blender benchmarks in a year or two. It is my understanding only basic Apple Silicon support has landed in Blender thus far.
Although more optimizations will be made, the reason the M1 and its derivatives can't compete with Nvidia in Blender is that Blender takes advantage of Nvidia's dedicated raytracing cores when using the Optix API. The M1 and its derivatives don't have dedicated raytracing cores. The M1 does raytracing with general compute shaders which aren't nearly as fast as specialized RT cores. So the M1 will never win in Blender. Mind you, Apple could come up with their own RT cores for the M2 or M3... that could change the story. But right now what's on the market is the M1, and the sad truth is the M1 doesn't have dedicated RT cores so it can't compete in Blender.
Actually, your understanding IS correct regarding Blender’s Apple Silicon support. The devs have said specifically that they have seen up to “double” the speed of renders, but this level of performance won’t be available in builds until stability is achieved.
I have been used Blender Metal option both intel iMac with AMD GPU's and MacStudio Max side by side last week. AMD Vega series are faster than M1 Max on multiple Metal GPU's on Blender actually faster than Mac Studio Ultra. But yes there is a but :) I experienced better and faster workspace in Blender, Zbrush, Photoshop, AE, Premier, Davinci with Mac studio Max compare to i9 iMac. Fan noise is second issue with iMac and also heat. Mac Studio max slightly get warm while rendering animations and there is no fan noise. If you had to work Multiple machines side by side at same time Mac studio variants are better choice for energy, noise, heat, size, connectivity compare to intel macs. Last couple of months Blender M1 Metal implementation nearly doubles up its speed, and as developers says there is more room for another speed up. Actually they are testing it for a while and I guess it will be release when its ready. Another but :))) I also use a PC time to time with i9 2080ti and its way much faster than any equal mac in Blender with Optix. My choice is for Blender M series Macs it dose not matter Mac mini or Pro, Max, Ultra all they can be used for real productions way cheaper and way more efficient.
@@austinberenyi5962 How does M1 compare to intel and/or ryzen in terms of viewport real time modelling? Who runs it better with no sudden freezes and glitches? For me the rendering times are not that hyper important.. the general usability of software is.
Yep, basically benchmarks are great for giving you ballpark performance metrics for various things, but in the end of the day you need to know what you plan on doing with the system.
And as other people said, electricity costs, heat production, size/noise, upgradability, etc etc all matter. You really need to look at your individual needs as a whole.
Great video Luke! I was waiting for this... if you could do more comparisons mac vs PC. it would be awesome. I'm using Mac for my 3D work, especially animations, and my mac runs basically nonstop. I considered PC several times, and I always chose a more likable workflow and usability to the performance. Some of my animations take 1-3 days to render so power consumption is a thing even for desktops since electricity is not free here. Unfortunately, most of the renderers are not optimized or do not support M1 GPU at all, so everything runs through the CPU.... :( very sad about it... I hope when apple unleased this kind of power for a "reasonable" price (compare to Mac Pro) more studios start using macs and software companies will be motivated to optimize their products for mac... 🙏
Fair analysis, i love the fact you are objective and not one sided!
Keep it up ❤️
for the price, I'm super underwhelmed in the mac studio. For laptops apple is still sitting pretty, but for desktops even if their video editing is faster, I still think apple is getting dumped on my traditional chip makers. They still need to step up their game if they want to compete. We'll have to wait for the mac pro to see what their biggest swing can do.
Let’s not forget that intel still has 10nm chips, nvidia 8nm and AMD 7nm, imagine if they were all 5nm advanced like apple!
@@alanmay7929 Apple isn't responsible for 5nm chips, they're possible due to ASML's EUV lithography tech & TSMC's fabrication process. Apple has little to do with that side of things.
@@Lee.S321 and apple has almost 40% of TSMC chip output which makes it difficult for tsmc to have more customers but fortunately they are building new chip factories around the world. Even intel was trying to use TSmc chip fab
@@alanmay7929 All very interesting, but not sure where it fits in here. Apple benefits from chip tech advancements, but they aren't responsible for them like you suggested.
@@Lee.S321 they are actually responsible and that’s a fact, even Qualcomm has a huge tsmc chip output percentage,smartphone chips which are mostly 5nm now and there are millions of them sold every year. like I said TSMC is building new/more chip factories to even have more customers.
Mac Studio is impressive but It's not as good value for money as MacBooks. I love Apple ecosystem but my desk computer would be a PC
Hey sorry to break it to you man, but PC stands for "personal computer" yeah...
Hi Luke, could you send the link again to where I could check out purchasing that monitor and which model is it?
An interesting question is how does the base Mac Studio compare to that rig?
Would love to see gaming videos, preferably on the M1 Max (as that's what I have on order)
it's not great I hope that's not why you bought the system, it's for professional work flows
@@The_MEMEphis I tried a Mac Mini 6 months ago but that couldn’t keep up with my 2015 27” iMac… not a pro but don’t want a gaming PC, not cheap and very power hungry
@@justinsurpless4137 gaming pc is probably gonna be cheaper then a Mac studio
@@The_MEMEphis Oh for certain, just meant that I’m not going to switch to windows exclusively and to have both wouldn’t be cheap
@@justinsurpless4137 what do you need a Mac for
If I were editing video and still using apple’s software I’d go for the Mac studio.
Swapped to PC when Ryzen and launched and have tons of ssd space, run windows and Linux, I have a Catalina hackintosh partition set up on another ssd I can swap in if I need it since I’m running Ryzen with a Radeon VII that runs great.
I guess for me just in terms of having options, enjoying flexibility and constantly tinkering with parts and building PCs, Apple just isn’t for me anymore. It was great and easy to use in college. But not my thing anymore.
Regardless I enjoy your content and being able to keep up with the latest tech from apple even if I don’t actively use their products and software anymore.
I’d love to use one of these at work for visual effects compositing but my large corporate company will never adopt macs for many reasons including not having good mechanisms on MacOS side for large managed deployments. It seems the focus is always single user.
Just the heat and the saving on power. Loved the video. Thaks
I'm not surprised if the CPU was throtteling in those tests because of the AIO-coller as an intake. Heating up the mobo, memory and gpu like that, ..
yeah, mine didn't fit on top but i configured it as an exhaust in the front.
it can heat up anything if it doesnt suck air xD
Running Windows in Parallel would be fun to watch when compared to an rtx 3090 pc.And what happens if you connect an Egpu for use in windows? I know M1 don't support it, but should work in Parallel if given direct input from thunderbolt ports?
It doesn't the host os needs to be able to see the igpu and pass it thru and windows 11 arm doesn't like gpu drivers
Great comparison video, keep it up
Glad you liked it!
Would like to have seen a comparison of the overall system power draw in various scenarios.
But listen, isn’t it mind blowing enough that that lunchbox can even keep up with that space heater?
Luke's really got the dream PC.
great video ..... well done Luke
Thanks 👍
i always enjoy your videos especially your repair ones
Gotta be honest: it’s sad that even now when the Macs have finally got capable GPUs and in general became amazing computers again, you still can’t really game on them. So it’s still the same equation as before: wanna game - buy PC, wanna work or daily drive - buy Mac.
It’s kinda frustrating at this point actually.🤷🏻♂️
Cmon, game developers, optimize your games finally, the time is now, M1 macs have enough power. Especially since Steam Deck is a thing now, pls, think about games on macs as well🙏🏻
why would game developers optimize for mac, literally no one games on a mac, its a complete waste of effort and time for the 4 people with a 6000 dollar mac to be able to game. macs are completely unupgradable and overpriced
Mac users are less than 1% of the gamers and also optimizing is pain in the ass.
Steam deck is x86 not arm so it just works
I don't think work is exactly a win for mac, but work on the road is.
Why wouldnt a PC be good for work or as a daily driver? Its faster in most applications and can do everything, also has more programs than MacOS. Its by far the better allround device
The only point to go for the Mac is the OS integration and maybe the size/loudness. Other than that, I´d go with a PC all day
@@froznfire9531 Apple eco system, batery longetivity, and the best notebook speed.
If you take price into consideration, you should have a look at costs for electricity.
M1 Ultra: 70Watt tdp
PC with i9 12900K and RTX 3090: 600Watt+ tdp
If you run it for 8 hours a day the difference (on constant full load) is over 4kWh per day!
80kWh per month
960kWh per year...
Depending on your price for electricity it could be easily hundreds of dollars a year in additional cost running the PC.
Good point! Never thought about the cost of ownership of a PC before
that's not really a point of comparison. Sure, take 30 cents/kWh, which is quite expensive, California has something like 19cents/kwh on average. That's still just $264 a year according to your calculation. If you're paying $5k for a machine + peripherals, say an additional $2k, that's $7k you're going to spend. $264/year difference is really nothing if you're able to afford that much.
firstly, who is gonna run it on full load 8 hours a day? if you're doing something like that, you should probably be buying a server computer, epyc ideally (or at least something more power efficient / lower clocked like a threadripper).
secondly, im pretty sure the m1 ultra uses a fair bit more than 70w of power if you really push it, somewhere around 100 or 120, even more when you consider all of the other parts of the device like the fans, motherboard etc, probably 200w+, youre just talking about the cpu/gpu which do use the most power but there are other factors too. a 12900k and 3090 probably wont use up 600w between them. the 3090 founders edition is about 350 and the 12900k is supposed to be 125 (but ive heard around 200 under heavy load). so the cpu and gpu will together probably still run under 600.
the mac studio is 370W, while is lower than the i9+3090, is more than what you said
@@mateusfelipecota it probably doesn't use quite that much, I reckon 250-300 sustained under load and maybe 370 spikes, usually a pc should have more PSU capacity than it needs for power spikes, for example a 3080 has a 300w tdp / sustained boost power but it can spike above 450w for fractions of a second so 370 Is worst case.
when doing these render & productivity benchmarks do you use the game ready drivers or the studio drivers?
Nice comparison but would like to know the actual power draw in watts please
Y'all (all reviews) aren't even hitting on the real value of the M1 for pros. The speed at which the CPU talks to the memory and talks to the SSD produce the valuable speeds. Simulations are PERFECT for this. It's not even close. My 12900k is half the speed of even the M1 MAX simulations like cloth, fluid and smoke. That's what I use it for so it's going to be even faster for the Ultra. I'd be interested in other use cases where y'all would see the value.
Yeah, but are you using a RTX3090 or even a RTX3080 GPU?
@@vitalis it’s a 3090
@@vitalis physics simulations are best done on the CPU not GPU
I don't think you can do a fair comparison until you hang some neon lights on the Ultra.
RGB makes all computers go faster
Great review, thank you
Great combination of showing the benchmark numbers but also pointing out other really important points regarding a computer purchase. Considering the changes in energy prices these days is a substantial point in my decision making, as my computers often run 18h a day.
Knowing all of this. For me, even though upgradeability is not possible with the Studio, I would pick the Mac.
It's way smaller, enormous performance with great thermals in a tiny package.
Plus it looks better. 😃
Just thought of another thing to consider when comparing the two, reliability. My macs have always out lived and needed less servicing than my PCs. I have never had any issues with Apple support but I can’t compare that to my PCs because my PC never had any kind of support. Granted I’m sure not everyone’s experience will be the same but it’s definitely something to think about.
Would be interesting to see Resolve running on both machines, export times, etc. I think the performance is pretty amazing (I am a FCP video editor), I just ordered the fully speced Studio Ultra. Thanks for sharing.
There are some tests on that, the PC wins most of them.
Were you using the replacement thermal bracket or the stock Intel bracket system with known thermal problems?
I love how you have one of the most expensive PC setups you could possibly have in one of the most garbage cases you could have put it in. Also I find these videos are incredibly skewed towards Mac because they are being made by video creators. The vast majority of people who need machines this powerful work outside of media but that's never going to be apparent when every person reviewing them views them through a content creation lens.
and ddr4 he cutted cost in everything he shouldnt with that setup
A number of observations:
Eventually the PC will cost more than the Mac due to the difference in power consumption. Both the 3090 and the 12900K are very power hungry.
Blender has only just added support for the M1 and will only get better, as it has with Nvidia cards. No doubt that will happen with other applications too.
Having lost count of the number of gaming PCs I have built over the last 30 years, the only thing I have done to take advantage of PC's upgradability is change the occasional video card or case. The upgradability has been more useful at the build stage where I can pick and choose components, not so much after that.
subscribed! appreciate your detailed breakdown. Unbiased and honest. The M1 ultra doesn't quite fit my needs as a CG artist. Having a 48 thread beast machine to render on beats out the M1 still unfortunately. That being said , the power and efficiency they are achieving is outstanding.
Hey it’s the guy from the Genius Bar Podcast!
I really wish we saw some power draw comparisons, because yeah one maybe more powerful but how much more energy is it requiring from the outlet
this was excellent Luke!
The components in your pc are getting really hot, because the H510 Elite hasnt any airflow
Watching you build the pc reminds me of the kids in the lego commercials
Amazing review!
Luke, I was wondering if power mode is available on the Mac studio and if it has any performance difference. Nobody, talked about this option.
I like the fact that you're now putting Higher or Lower when you're comparing machines.
I would really like to know whether there is MacBook style thermal throttling happening on the Mac Studio Ultra.
Looking at other TH-cam benchmarks, there seems to be (from the lack of consistent performance scaling) lots of thermal headroom for higher utilisation of the M1 Ultra GPU cores that isn't being utilised. Could this be simply across-the-M1-family-board power usage restrictions? That seems appropriate for laptops, but if it's also implemented on the Mac Studio, are we seeing a strategic holding back of M1 performance to promote sales of soon-to-be-released M2 hardware?
Thanks for your great reviews.
Would be pretty cool to see the latest Crossover running on the latest hardware
Really great review, honest and fair. One point you miss though is ability to repair. If you have a memory issue, you can replace a memory stic for $50 or a whole motherboard for $200, add 10 TB of storage for < $300.
Repairability is implied when he talks about upgradability
@@pinkmapviolin it's one thing to talk about "ease" of repair, the other is so many things ca be repaired for very small amounts of money. If you have a problem with the Mac motherboard it might cost $3000 for the Studio, whereas if the cpu fails, return it to Intel and get a free replacement. Same with memory. Upgrade the WiFi to WiFi 7 for $50 etc.
Thank You for this video!
It will be interesting to compare with a future intel Nuc with Arc gpu for about 2500€ and about the same size
Whether it's because Apple doesn't want to pigeonhole their flagship product as "a video editing box" or for some other reason, the way that they've consistently courted this sort of performance related controversy since the launch of the M1 is starting to leave a sour taste in my mouth.
I'm talking about framing generalizations as data. I'm talking about designing assertions that are slippery enough to just manage not to be refutable.
They're not even moving the goalposts - they're straight up refusing to say where the goalposts are.
Yes, I'd love to see a full comparison in game playability, between that PC and that Mac Studio, using either rosette 2, and/or Crossover! Especially, if in that comparison, would would include Microsoft Flight Simulator!
Excellent video Luke! As a high-end PC owner myself who's dabbled with Mac, I share your sentiments in that it's an impressive machine yet heavily depends on what you're using it for.
I game a lot, edit video decently, 3D render decently and have a lot of high disk space storage demands so for me, a PC is the best tool. But I of course see the benefits and idealness of Apple's solution too.
I really recommend you add DaVinci Resolve into your testing. Pr is what students use, but a lot of pros are actually running DVR as their main NLE. It would be really interesting to see what those scores looked like, considering how the various other tests went