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Timestamps
Intro: 0:00
Proficiencies: 1:33
Deity: 2:43
Spellcasting: 3:27
Divine Font: 4:43
Cloistered Doctrine: 6:23
Warpriest Doctrine: 7:06
Class Features 2-20: 9:24
Cleric Feats: 10:40
Outro: 45:18
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"Hopefully when Gods and Magic comes out we'll recieve a third one."
Narrator: They did not receive a third one.
As a longtime forever DM considering moving to Pathfinder from DnD 5e, your videos are great. It's letting me learn so much about everything from the deep-dive perspective, which I totally appreciate. Thanks for making all of these. I'll be watching a lot more of your videos over the next few days/weeks as the drama with the OGL continues.
Cleric feats are so flavorful and cool. I just love how the whole class is just feeding you RP material.
I have one criticism which I think is significantly affecting your opinion of many cleric feats: all of those abilities that deal a miniscule amount of alignment or add some positive energy damage trigger weaknesses.
If you know you're targeting fiends, and you can get those little chips of good damage, you're doing a MASSIVE amount of extra damage from just a little bit.
It's the same reason I love the aasimar feat to add 1 good damage to their attacks. Two or three hits on a demon with weakness 15 to good? That 3 became 48 damage.
Otherwise, love your deep dive.
Extra good damage turns all damage into good-"elemental"?
@@CErra310 Not exactly. If you do 1 good damage to a demon that has weakness 15 to good, it will take 16 damage total, in addition to any other damage you would do. Do that 3 times, and the demon will have taken 48 good damage total just from that feature, and not counting other damage you deal with the weapon, runes, or other effects.
Wow, that really gives those feats a new meaning.
The really cool (and dramatically powerful) use of Martyr is when you don't have 4d8 HP left yourself. You can be on 2 HP and cast it, downing yourself purposefully to give another vital character massive HP gains.
I have the exact same robe you're wearing at the start of the video.
But I'm clearly an idiot! This whole time, I thought it was a blanket!
I think you undervalue Cremate Undead somewhat. It's not just 4 persistent fire damage. It's 4 persistent fire damage to each undead you hit. Against a single undead doing just 4 fire damage at 8th level I agree that it's pretty terrible but with a three action heal spell against a group of undead it's 4 extra damage per undead hit. If for example you hit 5 undead you just did an extra 20 fire damage. They then all take the persistent damage again at the end of the next turn which is another 20 fire damage before they even get a chance to remove it unless they spend actions to remove it. In which case the feat has caused the enemies to spend their actions not contributing to the fight.
A quick comment about positive and negative energy.
If something says: Deals Positive/negative damage - Then it will not heal unless it is specifically noted otherwise.
Damage is damage not healing ^^
So just so you know that is not accurate.
Positive
Source Core Rulebook pg. 635 2.0
Effects with this trait heal living creatures with positive energy, deal positive energy damage to undead, or manipulate positive energy. Planes with this trait are awash with life energy of such intensity that it can harm living creatures. Creatures with this trait are natives of the Positive Energy Plane. They can survive the basic environmental effects of the Positive Energy Plane.
So no anything with the positive trait which is most of what he mentions does only damage undead and heals living creatures
@@tannerdaugherty407 So Sunburst heals living creatures at your table? I'm not sure if your disagreeing, or want to do a minor correction here.
I think the best indication of how the positive healing and damage relationship is supposed to work is given by the text on Negative healing in Beastiary 2 pg. 305:
"A creature with negative healing draws health from negative energy rather than positive energy. It is damaged by positive damage and is not healed by positive healing effects. It does not take negative damage, and it is healed by negative effects that heal undead."
The way the author words itself around what is damage and what is healing tells me that it's not all just "positive energy" for the purposes of regaining health.
@@JonWaterfall So no sunburst says the positive only effects undead so it is specific rules over righting general, so you don't have to worry about healing as the positive only effects creatures it can hurt.
So as long as the spell itself doesn't specify you would use the rules for the positive trait as I put in my earlier statement. In that any spell with positive trait, the positive damage only hurts undead, and heals allies.
Hope this clears things up.
This video should be good, I have faith in your knowledge of this domain.
This community desperately needs constantly updated spell guide, I'm sure it's on your list but, consider this an official request for the future lol.
Loved the intro
for future reference, DC 15 flat is 30% chance, not 25%. kinda like how DC 11 is 50% DC 10 is 55% chance, and DC 5 is 80% chance (e.g. 20% miss chance)
I love clerics, there so useful and feel like a true support class
Water, fire, family, travel, art. Long ago, the 5 domains lived in harmony-
Warpriest is fine, it's just assumed that you will use buffs to keep your attack bonus up. You're barely below other martials if you use heightened Heroism (better even, at specific power spikes) for instance. The feats for Warpriest are pretty damn good, too, especially Channel Smite. The damage is...spiky, and resource-dependent, but quite strong. I think requiring a little setup is a fair exchange for being practically a martial class and having a full array of spells at your disposal.
These deep dives are fantastic, im so happy that they exist.
I've been watching all your class videos and man I love the ad skits they are so funny! Keep doing what your doing I love your videos!
Hey man, super helpful video! I'm playing my first ever pathfinder campaign, and although my dm did explain all the different pf 2e classes to our party (we are all beginners), this video really helped me out a lot. I chose to be a cleric, but I didn't quite understand all the different choices and considerations I had to make and I feel like I do now!
Torag warptiest sentiniel for the win.
Mostly since I find combat boring and usually act like the groups face, so high charisma for those sweet extra heal spells.
Seriously, all I do during combat is to go with the melee guys, place myself so they can use me to flank, and heal everyone and act like a heavy armor punchbag.
Love the video, I am also loving your homebrew doctrine as well.
Thank you. Your vid is detailed and flows. I’m new to PnP, and P2E altogether - and this helped immensely
Just wanna say a quick thank you. New to PF and this video helped sooo much!!
Thanks for the timestamps in the vid!!
Here, have some holy comment, you earned it.
Spellcasters in general work through their spells, so I think "boring" feats are no problem. They still have their spells, and they can have all of them. Didn't look too much into spellcasting classes but I think you will a similar feat evolution. At least for the "core spellcasters".
Good luck nonat ❤
Wizards start with 3 Spell Slots because of Drain Bonded Items, 4 if Specialist so a better comparison would of been a different 8-health caster
Metamagic Clerics would pair pretty well with an ally who has the Marshal archetype. The Marshal can use their repositioning abilities to make sure that the Cleric is in the right spot for their modified Heal/Harm spells.
As someone who has pretty limited experience with PF2e, only started playing mid last year, I totally love the cleric yet I’m like kinda underwhelmed by it? I’ve already played two clerics, cloistered and warpriest, and kinda feels like Warpriest is a little tacked onto cleric? Feels like Cloistered was really what they wanted to make and Warpriest they felt obligated to make but weren’t sure how to make it work. Then again it was still fun to play a Warpriest, and I love all the flavor and the whole deity weapon thing. Just feels like it needs a little work.
I feel like Warpriest should have been its own class like in 1e
Love the intro.
Just the intro and I smash that like
You know what I absolutely love about Pathfinder 2E? you get your subclass at level 1 as opposed to 5E where for most classes you're somehow not trained at all in your subclass until level 3
Fellow 5e person here, and I agree. Getting subclasses at level 1 lets you modify the base class in a way that can be playstyle defining. It makes them feel so much more distinct and has the potential for some truly unique ways to play.
Seems Wizards embraced the idea that D&D doesn’t start till 3rd level and ran with it 😅
You posted this on the cleric video which gets its subclass at level 1 in 5e.
24:30 Not just Attack of Opportunities. This one is definitely a case of being a feat that's campaign specific. For example this would be a mandatory spell for a cleric of Besmara in a sea faring campaign, with storms/waves being something that a cleric would have to deal with if they want to maintain concentration on some spell.
Also it's a 30% chance since matching with 15 also counts
So divine Lance is useless for the most part then since it does alignment dmg?
Yeah, pretty much. At least if you have a Deity with two alignments, you can hit two different alignments.
You got your like and holy comment in 47 seconds time. I'm impressed, as I'm not usually that easily manipulated! =D
Splash of Art Creation is actually a good focus spell. It was a variety of effects it can debuff enemies. True it doesn't do anything on success but if it did it would be better than Color Spray a 1st LVL spell that Shelyn gives her clerics.
I don't think I've seen Nonat in such agony before. Hey Nonat, blink twice if there's an evil cleric right out of shot.
My first 2e cleric was a necromancer. It was pretty easy to make it work in fact it was far more powerful than the wizard I tried to turn into one harm gives them amazing sustain.
Now that book of the dead is out its probably even better.
I'll like, subscribe, and comment. U rock buddy
Thank you I for creating this. With WOTC recent leak, I’m looking around at other TTRP. Side note- I love cleric!!!
Dhampir android necromancy cleric.... Using raise dead and final sacrifice with command undead and harm font. You can burst and heal yourself and minions while dealing damage to others. It is awesome.
I feel like you’re going to get a lot of return watchers in the next couple months. And I’m excited for it. I always build a character based on a model iPhone that inspires me to paint it.
Do you think you could build a Cleric based on Friar Tuck from Robin Hood Prince of thieves? Just an old drunk with a possible shady past, that could absolutely do work with a quarter staff?
totally, a high Dex Warpriest of Andoletta the Grandmother Crow (an Empyrial Lord or Angelic god of grieving and redemption whose favored weapon is the staff) would totally work as a Friar Tuck expy
Monk guide please :-). That aside I really like your videos. The bits aren't cringe inducing, you're moderately informed and you're open to correction.
The opening bit made me not just like but subscribe.
Swift banishment does work on all attacks, so this feat is way more effective on a cloistered cleric, which makes sense as the Spell DC of a Warpriest won't be very good anyways!
As an actual minister (PCUSA), I’m looking forward to the real-world parallels.
He is young and impetuous but has potential as a padawan for the right sensei. L
for me it is... well, fairly straightforward. Any time I think of playing a cleric, im certain an oracle will do it better. The only place where they really have a strong case is cast down with harm font for tons of tripping harms per day.
Do warpriests automatically gain Deadly Simplicity if their deities favored weapon is a martial weapon? Or does it stop you from gaining it as the RAW spell description states?
Uh, how did I miss sap life? That’s killer. Thanks!
I played Cleric for my first ever of 1e character and while he was fun in the rp, I felt like I was only good at healing instead of helping with damage against enemies.
He died saving his friends but maybe I'll look at rebuilding him in 2e
I think much of this class (and the Champion) assume a lot of RP. Much of the class features are flavourful and great is specific situations
Going over the feats makes me fully understand why my AoA group doesn't fare well with only a Druid as a healer...
I'm rewatching arrow and you kinda look like Stephen amell when he first landed on the island
Did you mean Secrets of Magic or was this just recorded that long ago? (Said when Gods and Magic comes out.)
Edit: From what I can tell the Emblazon Armament is intended to allow you to turn your shield or weapon into your divine focus for casting while giving you a bit of a boost. Seems almost required for a Cleric wishing to use a shield.
I really want to take the class feats from this game and 'pool' them and change the levels on some of them, so that multiple classes get access to them. Cleric is one that needs a lot of shifting around, and giving help to keep up. They are a legit support class no matter what option you take
I feel like that's what they had in 1e, and it led to a lot of feats that literally never got chosen because there were always better alternatives.
Cleric Best class let's goooo
Your prayer have been answered child
Oh wow, cleric are so flavourfull, but some are outright useless and niche, some feats are great, but compared to other classes, clerics have been shafted. If you want to play a melee divine caster, a battle oracle does a better job at this AND they reach legendary in spellcasting.
Hopefully an errata or a new subclass/feats will push the cleric out of the healbot position.
Oh and another thing - The divine magical tradition is the worst one of all. IMO - Arcane > Primal =/> Occult > Divine.
I think War not reaching Master proficience in Weapons is fine tbh.
1- heroism is busted, makes you catch up with everyone pretty easily if you cast in a high enough level.
A level 3 Heroism will keep you only a point shy of a martial, and if you invest in a lot of STR and grab the STR Apex Item, you can even have the same attack bonus as a Barbarian by spending a level 9 Heroism.
2- true strike is just a single action and first level spell, in higher levels it's pretty much spammable.
3- you're not supposed to slap someone 3 times, but rather aim for one "big hit" after casting a spell.
4- im complement to the 2 and 3, you have align armament and divine weapon, these two really make your hits count, and having 2~3 aligned attacks against an extra-plannar foe would problably kill your DM.
5- in the end, WPs aren't the martial dudes, but rather frontline supports that can give their enemies a beating.
I would give WarPriests a small buff to AC, but maybe it's not that bad that they're a bit more vulnerable compared to the rest, every class needs a weakness after all :)
Edit: true strike isnt a divine spell, my mistake, but the rest still applies.
There's a small number of deities who grants True Strike and this spell is not in divine list.
@@SURok695 oh dang, i thought it was Divine
But either way, the rest still applies
wife walks in while he's praying on the floor.
"I want a divorce"
Walks back out the room.
would the 2pts of good trigger its weakness to good and ad 5,10 or whatever its weakness per hit?
I need a leveling guide for the best healing focused cleric you can be. Our party is always hurting for heals.
Nonat, did you mean to say that you hope to get more subclasses in the upcoming "Secrets of Magic" or was this recorded before March of 2020? That was something I was disappointed in "Gods and Magic" that they didn't expand the cleric subclass list. Hopefully we'll get one this year.
I’ve been really enjoying the medic/cleric I’ve been playing. 2e is deadly and keeps me busy. But I don’t think I would have enjoyed any other build.
Have you thought of making a video about pathfinder wrath of the righteous? I would love to hear your input about it
I almost feel like Chirugeon for Alchemists should get the max healing medicine check feat
Undeads are not automatically immune to mental effects(fear) so you can cast fear on some undeads in pf2. Just a sidenote.
I need to try out a 2e spell caster at some point
Selective Energy: Not Charisma Mod+1, it's just Charisma Mod (minimum 1)
There are many little mistakes like that all over the video, but I still love it.
Hey man would reccomend looking at the cold domain for cloistered cleric, that first focus spell is gross.
Really hope they bring back the ability boost spells in some way.
Amen
Gods and Magic has been out for a while. Think you meant Secrets of Magic.
27:05 do Weaknesses apply to persistents damage? If so that 4 damage can easily become 14 if undeads are weak to positive energy
The problem is that it's persistent FIRE damage
@@SURok695 ah... damn yeah that's bad.
Great video, but I'm still not sold on 2e cleric. I played one a Warpriest of Erastil with the archer archetype in Piazo's ashes campaign and I still couldn't perform at the level the ranger was with his bow. Then I switched to cloistered cleric and couldn't keep people alive even with all the augments to heal, so I don't know if I was just playing it wrong or what.
With Sap Life can a cleric hit multiple enemies with AOE harm and heal for every enemy he hits with the harm spell? Just a question I don't see a lot of answers for thanks.
I'm commenting just because it's holy
❤❤❤❤
Super serious combo. Take Replenishment of War with your Cleric. Tie some little critters like rats to your body in a way they don't hinder your movement. Each turn you have an action available, hit the little critter (with a critical, probably) and win some temporal HP. Profit!
What's that? Players on your table really love animals and will kill your character if you do that even if the animals are imaginary? Take a familiar and get it to become a Spellslime. They're are oozes, so animal lovers can't say anything, they don't even have a mind or a soul! Also, spellslimes are immune to criticals, but effects that occur on a critical still happen (Core Rulebook pg. 451, 2.0), so you'll hit them for little damage. Problem solved!
But heal undead can be made with area spells and, most of the time, it will! Isn't "4 tiny damage". Its 4 per enemy undead minion.
Click the bell for divine intervention!
commenting to feed the algorithm
Nice video. some of the feat that you say "if you don't know what you will fight" they are lvl 10+ if you do not know what you will be fighting maybe need to pay more attention to your DM XD
I enjoy a lot the video
Pretty sure Channeled Succor doesn't work like that. It says 'sacrifice' and not anything about spontaneously casting it. I think this means that you permanently have 1 less Heal spell in exchange for permanently having Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Remove Paralysis, or Restoration as a divine font spell.
Now I HAVE to comment
Played a Warpriest for 8 levels in the Age of Ashes AP. Firstly... i don't power-build so I may not take the best of the best feats all the time, secondly i have played almost every version of DnD since Basic so have a lot of experience. I also GM a couple of PF2 games using Fantasygrounds. Now here is what I think of the Warpriest in PF2. As a caster, it is nerfed by the new spell limit rules. Not to say I don't like the new spell limit format but for the Cleric it really hurts them. As a 2nd line fighter they are too squishy and only hand out small amounts of damage compared with the major fighter (and rogue) classes. As a caster, with a major portion of your spells being heals (or harms if you are evil) you end up just being the party healer anyway. Other types of healing like restoration, raise dead, cure disease etc, can all be done out of combat. Also buffing spells don't seem as good anymore. For example the bless spell increasing in radius from you each round means you need to get in close to the fighting.. not a good idea even if you are in heavy armour. I haven't played the Cloistered Cleric but because of the better spell capability and the fact you end up just being a party healer anyway, it seems the way to go if you want to play a Cleric in PF2. I do love the new spell heightening mechanic and give it a two thumbs up but i am not sure it helps the poor Warpriest. I would recommend if playing a warpriest just focus on AC and AB then consider spells as a circumstantial bonus (a bit like the Ftr/MU or Ftr/Cl multiclass of old).
@Steady spellcasting: 30% chance not 25% (rolling 15 makes it). Still quite underwhelming compared to other feats though i agree.
We houserule Healing hands to have the two-action Heal spell heal +10 rather than +8.
Cremate Undead would be much better if it were persistent Positive damage, potentially adding a ton of weakness damage.
Holy comment was a heresy,
If they bleed…they’re evil! Too funny
21:27 Footage of Nonat listening to strangers banging.
This is a holy comment.
Bless you my children.
Peace be with you.
Have high expectations for the video. :з
How difficult is it too play a high level melee cleric?
I really wish I had watched this before I built my cleric with a -1 Charisma. :(
With the remaster charisma is no longer needed because divine font is powered by your cleric level
I only really have experience with 1e Pathfinder and it feels like Clerics got watered down a bit. Though I will admit that's probably not accurate as I am missing a lot of context and nuance having only recently started looking into 2e out of curiosity. I did enjoy playing a tank cleric in 1e, but I may switch over to the Cloistered to be a better support character.
If the Algorithm is a P2E deity, I’m pretty sure it’s Evil, or Chaotic Neutral at best.
Comment for the algorithm
Interesting comment on the spell list . My current group hates the divine list and thinks it is rubbish
Mine have had similar thoughts about it. And early levels (they're lvl 6) there's nothing too terribly exciting there but it gets fantastic later on especially if you are going up against enemies of the opposite alignment as you
@@nickjackson2660 I was imagining the warpriest with the fiend "harming" feat in a converted Hells Rebels (last game I ran) whilst this video was playing
I'd actually like a Divine list review with Nonat's enthusiasm. Or does it already exist?
Good Televangelist skit