Torx screws vs Robertson screws -- First Impressions (WnW #53)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 เม.ย. 2016
- Possible competition for the mighty Robertson? Could it be?
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📃In-Depth Article: www.wordsnwood.com/2016/torx-v...
Not too long ago, I released a video on the subject of lousy screws, and how I thought Robertson screws were far superior: • Robertson Screws Rule ...
That was just a fun little joke video where I vented some of my frustrations with lousy screws. However, I received a number of fairly serious comments and a number of people challenged me to check out Torx screws.
So in this video I do just that. I picked up a few boxes of GRK torx screws and put them through their paces.
THIS IS NOT A DETAILED IN-DEPTH REVIEW. To do justice to a full deep review would take many days and thousands of screws. This is just my initial thoughts and first impressions.
Bottom line? GRK makes a fine product, but I think a lot has to do with their thread design. I’d like to see those aggressive self-tapping threads on a Robertson screw. Still, I freely admit that these torx screws are pretty good, probably equivalent to my beloved Robertson.
Just say NO to lousy screws.
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amzn.to/1RNCIYu - Driver bits also
amzn.to/1LIcRBX - Same thing but “Square drive”
amzn.to/1TzHwEp - And these are some of the best “multi-bit” screwdrivers around. (But get the ones with Robertson tips!)
amzn.to/1SqVxTk - pocket-hole screws are of course Robertson also.
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So did anyone notice in the opening shot that I was pointing at the Robertson when I said Torx, and vice versa ?? ;-)
Not too long ago, I released a video on the subject of lousy screws, and how I thought Robertson screws were far superior:
th-cam.com/video/I0Gpeg3DVBU/w-d-xo.html
That was just a fun little joke video where I vented some of my frustrations with lousy screws. However, I received a number of fairly serious comments and a number of people challenged me to check out Torx screws.
So in this video I do just that. I picked up a few boxes of GRK torx screws and put them through their paces.
THIS IS NOT A DETAILED IN-DEPTH REVIEW. To do justice to a full deep review would take days and thousands of screws. This is just my initial thoughts and first impressions.
Bottom line? GRK makes a fine product, but I think a lot has to do with their thread design. I’d like to see those aggressive self-tapping threads on a Robertson screw. Still, I freely admit that these torx screws are pretty good, probably equivalent to my beloved Robertson.
Just say NO to lousy screws.
---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ----------
CHECK THESE OUT FOR YOURSELF. (Affiliate links)
amzn.to/25T4FWs - GRK Torx screws
amzn.to/1Q20ax7 - GRK Torx bits for your driver
amzn.to/1Vg4Yaw - Torx Screwdrivers
amzn.to/1LIcwz2 - Robertson Screws
amzn.to/1M0tFig - AKA Square Screws
amzn.to/1TzHkoH - Robertson Screwdrivers
amzn.to/1RNCIYu - Driver bits also
amzn.to/1LIcRBX - Same thing but “Square drive”
amzn.to/1TzHwEp - And these are some of the best “multi-bit” screwdrivers around. (But get the ones with Robertson tips!)
amzn.to/1SqVxTk - pocket-hole screws are of course Robertson also.
amzn.to/1YP3rXy - Irwin Quick-grip XP600 clamps
amzn.to/1UegW3W - Hitachi 10.8v drill/driver kits
amzn.to/1R8tzL8 - Ridgid 12v Drill
---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ----------
Project web page here:
www.wordsnwood.com/2016/torx-v...
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Thank-you!
There is one more aspect of the screw type which you didn't mention. My experience with both types of drive is that with the Robertson your driver must be almost exactly in line (+/- 5 degrees) with the screw or it will "cam out". The Torx drive allows for greater misalignment and less of a chance to torx-out. This is particularly true with CRES screws.
im danish and hate torx almost more the hexhead (unbraco) ive worked on vihecles most of my life plus other handywork and every time i hear "oh those never seize up and are always to get out " i think those persons never worked with older stuff then bout 25 years of crap MOSTLY!! they are bout to get out with anglegrinder or welder!!!! id deff love to try robertsons screws and drivers !!
@@transdetendal I moved to Canada 3 years ago from Finland, Robertson's screws are okay after you get used to them. Initially I found Robertson's screws cam out more often you'd think they would, the angle between the screw and the driver is really important. The slightly slanted tip requires some down force in most situations while torx merely requires to be kept in. Overall a new tip will perform comparatively to torx but in the end I think torx wins in just about every category.
I can send you a small box of Roberson screws and a tip if you want. XD
@@NikoKauppi awesome ! then what is your verdict about the robertson vs torx are the robertsosns worse then the ones we know ? i HATE torx , after all the cars i fiddled with and vw (pethate) all of what is torx strip out more then unbrako and thats not a fan either of mine !
Robertson screws were invented because, why put your beer down while working
People: We need a better screw than the standard.
Phillips: Hold my beer.
Robertson: I'll keep my beer thanks.
said who ?
@@xl000 huh?
This is literally true. My uncles were helping my dad make a barn while sauced.
In the states, we began using Robertson on decking only. and, I quickly fell in love with them. The only ironic drawback is that bone-head employees will drive Robertson screws halfway into the board, instead of correctly stopping them. While Phillips Head Screws struggle to get through the board without stripping.
I gotta say that as a European I only first used Robertson screws a couple years ago, in NZ, and I was blown away by how much better than PH and PZ screws they are! They're really perfect for carpentry. The bits will last forever too
Bits not lasting forever is probably the reason for all the Phillips screws we have to keep using. money to be made. Cammed out screws need replacing too.
Never heard of Robertson screws until I stumbled upon this video.
Your life will never be the same again... ;-)
This is what Huey Lewis was singing about in the song "It's Hip To Be Square!"😂
@@Wordsnwood I used to work for a Canadian audio manufacturer called Museatex; their products, and the products made by the previous earlier version of the company, Meitner audio, were all assembled with Robertson fasteners. Back in the 80s, here in the States I used to install nightclub sound systems and we would use Robertson screws to put covers over the equalizers and crossovers and various signal processing equipment to prevent DJ's and others from tampering with the system after everything was adjusted properly. Unfortunately, some folks figured out that a flat blade screwdriver of the right size could be concerted kiddy- corner into the Robertson screws and used to remove them, and later on the Robertson bits themselves became fairly common here in the States, primarily for purposes of driving stainless steel screws when building decks.
If you do much woodworking, you have likely seen a Kreg pocket hole jig. The Kreg stuff is all designed for a square-bit robertson head. I don't have a huge preference either way for torx vs square head, but both are far superior to the standard Phillips head, and I find it hard to understand why Phillips is still the standard in the US.
good 'un z
The History Guy channel just did an interesting history of the Robertson screw and why it's ubiquitous in Canada but almost non-existent in the US. Spoiler alert- it boils down to Robertson not giving manufacturing exclusivity to Henry Ford who then went to using Phillips head screws.
The History Guy video is exactly why I am watching this now. We have the Robertson screws here in Australia, not really common, I always just called them Square Drive.
He's pushing 1 million views on that video. I'm amazed that so many people are interested. It's now one of his top-three videos ever, so it's also way out of the norm for his stats.
It's driving a lot of new traffic here, so I'm not complaining, I just don't quite understand why that video is gone somewhat viral.
I'm not sure- I find all of his videos interesting, but why that has captivated the internet at large is beyond me as well.
@@MKPatrolGuy They are becoming common in the Bunnings treated pine and decking screw isles. Since 99.7% of Australians now buy their screws at Bunnings the square head Robertson screw is getting known.
@@Wordsnwood It's because now that we (outside of Canada) are getting to know how good Robertson screws are, we want to know why we have been forced to use Philips head screws all our life. I am not being melodramatic when I say that it has been a real struggle. Philips head screws are reasonably easy to get in but have caused DECADES of heartache in Australia to try and get out. Especially in oxidised iron and Aluminium. I am getting a bit angry just taking about it so I will stop now.
Never saw a Robertson in my life and never had a torx fall off.
Because almost all torx screwdrivers are magnetic. "L" shaped torx in the other hand are the worst.
I have used Robertson my whole life and for at least 10 years in the boatbuilding industry. In recent years I have also used Torx in boatbuilding. I have to say that Robertson wins hands down for gripping the screw bit, and that is a real game changer.
@@collomps Don't know about screwdrivers but on my Hilti cordless screwdrivers, 10-20 cm screws don't fall off if they are torx, a magnet can't hold such a screw, it's how the bit fitts.
@@Kevins-Philippine-Retirement Interesting, didn't know that. But he gripp probably also depends on the manufacturer.
GRK screws are great. Note that the trade name “Torx” has two types- regular and “security”. The “security” type is also called “tamper-resistant” and is used for equipment that is exposed to public access. Security Torx screws have a raised center that prevents a normal Torx bit from entering. They should not be used for DIY or woodwork.
Robertson screws and drivers are excellent, but almost exclusive to Canada.
Here in the Netherlands, pozidrive was the most popular wood screw for years. This is quickly replaced by the Torx screw.
Now the largest and cheapest range of screws is the Torx screws, often with a box a free screw bit.
Yeah, I've heard that Torx has a large presence in Europe. Though another person told me that Robertson were available in Norway.
@@Wordsnwood Pozi still popular in the UK, but Torx and Spax gaining ground
@@Wordsnwood I'm no expert but I have never seen a Robertson with my own eyes here in Norway. Torx is immensely widespread.
@Mandy🅱️_2️⃣6️⃣2️⃣ Spax are a brand that make torx and pozidriv headed screws. Spanx, on the other hand, make tight faux-leather trousers.
Same in Denmark 😉
It comes down more to the actual quality of the screw itself and the driver bit, than what type of drive is used.
Also, guys probably underestimate how much of a difference experience makes when driving screws. It's a skill that requires practise like all others.
+John Heisz Well said, sir! (After I finished the video, and really didn't want to re-open things, I realized I probably should have looked at the deck or construction screws, as I think I could have found a more comparable thread style there.)
+John Heisz This is so true. Many people seem to obsess of the drive type. In my experience, it really doesn't matter. I've managed to fasten lots of things together with all kinds of screw head shapes...even slotted screws. This is really a Coke/Pepsi, Apple/PC kind of internet argument and evangelism.
+Steve Ramsey Coke/Pepsi... darn, that would have been a good one to work into the video!
Steve Ramsey
Same here. I prefer Robertson, but have no problem driving Philips just as easily. What I don't like is those multi-drive screws that are supposed to fit Philips, Robertson and standard, but only really fit standard well.
Standard (slotted) shouldn't exist now, though - those are terrible :D
+John Heisz Uh...and drywall toggle bolts STILL come with those slotted screws!
I never used once a Robertson screw as it looks like no shop have that in store, at least in Switzerland, but if I had to choose the universal screw head, it would be Robertson, no question. You added even some extra advantages that I didn't know. Greeting to Canada that left me an awesome and unique feeling when I visited the wonderful Quebec! Subscribed.
Just stumbled across this an found it an interesting, if very limited comparison. The tip on the GRK is called a Type 17 and I'm sure explains the driving feel difference. You might notice that the Kreg screws are Type 17, yet another reason everyone loves them. Type 17's also tend to stay straighter when they penetrate by design.
While Robertson is popular in Canada, it is very limited throughout the world and almost non-existent in much of Europe. The #2 and #3 Robertsons are hard to cam out, but the 0 and 1 cam out easily, where the Torx T20 all the way down to 4 are really hard to cam out, unless you continue to drive excessively after the screw head seats. Remember that many torx heads, especially in T25 and T27 are DESIGNED to fail at specific torque loads to prevent damage to the connected surfaces, or to prevent drive through, something that cannot be done with Robertson or Phillips, thought the P2R2 types have a limited ability to do this. Torx are also capable of MUCH high torque loads than Robertson. Robertson heads can be much smaller than torx, making them well suited for trim head screws as long as they are not overdriven. Do the same thing in torx and the head will get snapped right off. Phillips was designed to cam out to prevent damaging the screw head by trying to apply too much torque. Robertson and Phillips were designed to be able to be driven off angle, Torx NOT AT ALL; the far lobe will snap right off.
The point is more that there is a right screw for every project, much like there is a right tool for each job. Each has a collections of strengths and weaknesses, many designed in, to make the type better suited for a specific task. Both Torx and Robertson #2 and #3 are better than virtually anything out there for my money. here in the US Torx is widely available, up North "Go Robertson" but realize that there are manu places they are used that they shouldn't be (deck building comes to mind) that I'm sure won't change in my lifetiem !! (LOL)
Bet many of ya didn't think there was so much to a little ol' screw .....
Wow, that's a hugely detailed comment. thanks! Lots of good info here.
Good stuff. Torx are great and slowly making their way into the US market. Square drive are less common here but are extremely solid. Good on you Canadians for making it your standard over Phillips.
in Europe..robertsen....? not available..Torx however our standard..
yep, I also only own torx, and haven't seen Robertson here in Germany. But I definitely hate Philips screws. after all: Torx and Robertson win, Philips suck
+Andre Klärner yep your right Philips sucks
I am in the UK and we are in Europe, and I have been using Robertson screws from Screwfix for the last 15 yrs, I use them mainly as a security screw.
I saw the first Robertson when I moved from Spain to Norway. In Norway it seems I've been popular at some point because when I wanted to remove a screw from the house I bought in 2010 I found some Robertson and had to buy the bit to remove it. But I've never used them for anything more, and now the Torx is the standard here too
here have torx screwdriver bit with hole
th-cam.com/video/usnApfWOJnQ/w-d-xo.html
We use torx on aircraft manufacturing, thousands and thousands of them driven. I can count on one hand how many stripped out, excellent fastener. Also use Robertson drivers, but prefer torx
Compared the apple laptop and there screw, they are notorious for breaking down and apple purposely ruining them so that you can only use apple to fix your laptop
Great demonstration. The Point on the GRK is a Type 17 and is used in Pockethole Screws and do cut their way in.
I moved to Canada from Finland around 3 years ago and I've been using Robertson screws in construction for the past 2 years now, I find them okay now but initially I didn't really like them that much. I'm mostly driving self tapping screws to about 3mm thick aluminium and they tend to cam out quite often, not so often with me anymore but I got some young guys working under me and I'm buying a new tip per drill every month at worst, torx doesn't really have this problem unless you manage to snap the tip off.
Finland has been all torx wood screws for a few years now and I helped put together wooden steps in Finland some 5 years ago with torx, it was such a delight in comparison to Philips screws, that initial feeling of zero down force needed to screw was something amazing and something I could use with my work right now as well.
So personally I'd buy torx if I ever make something for myself.
companies that produce for Canadian market only!
This video is actually pretty fascinating. Thanks for taking time to make this video man!
Don't forget that the Robertson screw was in use for about six decades before Torx came along. It's like comparing a Model T Ford with a 68 Dodge Charger. The fact that Torx is only a marginal improvement on Robertson says a lot about how truly advanced and excellent the design of the latter was.
Indeed, the cross heads are a true disgrace.
You should do a stripping test - see how much torque it takes to strip either screw!
I've had a real issue in actual production work of stripping Robertson's bits and screws. At one point I blew through 2 Robertson bits in one day and God knows how many screws. Let's just say I have torx bits that I've literally owned for years and stripped my fair share of screws but maybe stripped a handful of torx bits in my lifetime.
@@Saw_Squatch Ive stripped a few torx bits over the years, but those were all supermarket cheap chinese ones. Ive never even seen a robertson here in Europe! But i imagine its the same issue of quality.
@@DulimirOfGondor Torx strips pretty quickly if you go up in size on the screw but the small-medium size lasts a really long time in my experience.
@@Saw_Squatch I don't work comercially and have stripped 4 or 5 torx bits, it is more a matter of tool quality and technique than design when comparing the 2 designs.
Torx strip far easier than robertsons, Dont hold nearly as well and have fare more sizes than needed. Call me wrong all you want but it's just a better phillips. I can throw my robbys on my drill and have my other hand to move things, level and then drill while still support the object i'm working with
Worked maintenance for many years here in the US. In basically all of our repairs we replaced the hardware with square drive, vandal-proof, or robertson. My boss was a big fan of robertson, but it's a little harder to come by here, at least to just walk in and buy. Torx is nice too cause it doesn't hardly slip.
When I discovered square screws (never hear them called "Robertson" screws here in NZ ) it was such an improvement over Phillips head screws. I use use them into wood and not usually anything much over 40mm..pre drilled, of course. Torx i have never tried but people do seem to like them. Square screws are very popular here-- my first choice.
Living herein the state of Colorado inthe U S A, I did not know of the Robertson screws till the mid 80's. Since that time I have used them on many occasions and have a great appreciation for them. SCREW ON!!
Same here also in Colorado. I've switched from expensive TimberLoks for lighter fencing work (donkeys etc...)
Here in New Zealand. From my first drill driver I realised that flat head screws were not the go. So Used Phillips head almost exclusively, as that was about all that was widely available as an alternative to flat head. Then I discovered square drive (Robertson), and now I have quite a number of plastic jars of phillips head that have been sitting in my workshop drawers for several years untouched, in favour of using the square drives. Torx are not widely used or available yet, but I have seen them used a lot in electrical and electronics, and I have a good set of torx bits for when I dismantle these. For me it is square drive (Robertson) FTW.
This just makes we want to visit New Zealand even more... ;-)
Square drive (TIL that they are called Robertson) in the US have the same problem that Torx has in Canada...they are practically non-existent. I have used them with somewhat of success, but just last week, I spent 10 minutes hunting for a bit just to remove some screws. I grew up with Phillips, and they were almost all I had used until I was introduced to Torx at work a few years ago. They have become much easier to find at the big box stores lately (the store inventory is probably 70% Phillips, 25% Torx, and 5% everything else). I now use Torx almost exclusively on my projects. They are SO MUCH FASTER than Phillips because they head almost instantly aligns, and they are nearly impossible to strip (I recently built a shed using Torx bits, and broke ONE screw...I would have broken several Phillips, and stripped dozens more...I've yet to strip a Torx!). I will say that I WISH they stayed on the bit like the square, err, Robertson screws do. For me, that's the best feature of the Robertson drive. Now if only we could get drywall screws that weren't Phillips!
I never really met a Robertson screw until about 10 years ago when I started using Kreg pocket screws. Fell in love with them right away. In my line of work I use a million different screws for a million different purposes. The grip alone is reason enough to call it superior. In 95% of situations it's the most important factor. I often restore a lot of older hardware and the only reason not choose Robertson is cosmetically. I, and many others, find the simple slotted screw elegant in it's simplicity. Unfortunately, in America the Robertson comes in the least variety.
Thanks for the interesting video. Here in Belgium we also besides the general types like philips, pozidrive and torx, use the tapered torx from a company named 'Wurth' . The screws and drivers really cling together like your Robertsons material.
I'm an American. I discovered Robertson screws one day at Home Depot just by chance. I didn't know what they were called but I loved them instantly and never looked back.
As an American I feel like I've seen robertson mostly in furniture, usually made over seas I assume. Although I'd referred to them as square drive. The one thing I dislike about torxs is the many different sizes. edit: Torx you can also use in a hex.
I’m from Finland and has been wondering what is that square head screw and now I know, thanks. I bought couple of different sizes in the case I run into those. I’ve seen them but they are very rare here. I’ve used TORX for 25 yrs and it really is a good standard. I don’t know why your screws came off so easily as those usually stay really well. As an electronic maintenance engineer I see TORX everywhere and also many car makes use it. My Volvo has those and I’m really happy with that as Phillips and Pozidrive heads can worn so much that you have to extract the screw. Anyway, I can understand why you are so fond of the Robertson as it is very straight forward and you can easily make your own screwdriver if needed. It also looks good in old things where you usually have a lots of problems when you try to find proper screw of the era.
several people have commented about making your own Robertson drive.... and I've never ever thought about that. Probably because they're so common here.
Nice video, but as you said this is not a fair comparison, those GRK R4 screws are structural framing rated screws meant as nail replacements and have 10x the shear strength of the standard Papco Robertson head screws you used. In addition to this, the GRK's are self-tapping for low torque (less hammering from the impact driver), they even have a line of screws with a self-countersinking feature under the heads (not sure if the ones you used had this). GRK chose Torx due to its superior anti-cam out properties. These screws are even ACQ rated and perform almost as well as stainless steel screws in corrosive environments; a true engineering marvel in fastener technology. If a Robertson head equivalent screw exists I'd like to see one compared to these GRK's too.
We got a screw connoisseur over here
True, GRK design is superior to the Robertsons used in the video. Anyways. Robertson is not so popular outside Canada. I wish they were, In my country we are still strugling with crappy pozidrive and Phillips. The key here is Licencing. Robertson locked the production and ended making it not so popular. th-cam.com/video/R-mDqKtivuI/w-d-xo.html
Although I'm a Robertson fan being Canadian, I give the slight edge to Torx because they can stand a little off-centre screwing that Robertson can't. If Robertson gets even a little canted, they will lose their grip, Torx doesn't. It's kind of like Phillips that way.
I switched to torx about 13 years ago and haven't bought much of anything else if there is an option. Nothing against Robertson, but they are rare in most US locations. You'd probably be lucky to find a handful of sizes. Torx on the other hand is almost as common as Phillips in many stores.
It's the same here in Europe, I think Robertson is fine, from what I've seen it's essentially a simpler torx. But when all you have is phillips or torx then torx is the clear winner.
@@volundrfrey896 Look at this video: th-cam.com/video/R-mDqKtivuI/w-d-xo.html
Robertson ended cripling the screw popularity himself. We dont have Robertson screws in my country and Torx are starting to appear. I would prefer Robertson for the following. 1: Common people use screwdrivers for chiseling, punching, prying, etc. A square tip would be less likely to be damaged because of that (silly but true). 2 When unscrewing painted over screwheads, given that Robertson tip is tapered, it would fit easier than torx that is not tapered. Rusted torx screws or bolts can be a nightmare.
My experience in construction over the years seems to point to Torx slowly taking over. Anything that is using quality products is now Torx. Phillips are all about cost and saving money at this point.
@@volundrfrey896 Torx and Robertson are fundamentally different because Robertson uses a tapered head, while Torx does not.
This explains some of the square bits I have in an expansion set for my Leatherman multi tool.
Sounds like a good kit!
Great follow up. I wish we had more Robertson screws available to us here in America. My first experience with Robertson screws wasn't till I bought the Kreg jig and after my first project I was hooked on Robertson type screws but going to a big box store your choice is Torx or Philips screws so personal I just buy the Torx screws. That being said I would buy the Robertson type if available and talking with a lot of fellow woodworkers so would they main reason being just as you explained the hold to the driver bit is so good. That's just my 2 cents
+Thom spillane If I moved to the US I'd probably check into some of the mail order options.
Back in the '90s Home Depot used to sell a Robertson/Phillips head deck screw. In my opinion they were the best because the Robertsons were able to be driven in at an angle if needed. Also it was nice to be able to use the Phillips if you lost your Robertson bit. I haven't seen these screws for at least 20 years.
Being a Canadian casual wood working hobby user, I found the Robertson screws easy to use and much better than Philips. In hardware stores here the Torx screws are selling for higher price than the Robertsons. May be the material/design, as you said, are a factor in the end product of the Torx. Also color coding is a very good reason for tool selection when it comes to different sizes at work. At my local Home depot the Torx screw is surely a premium product.
I used Robertson screws for a deck for the first time last year here in the US, it worked well I can't remember any of them stripping or anything.
Trex decking?
Robertson is popular here in Australia in deckings.
Robertson is one thing that we in Canada got right!
I live in Czech republic and basically everyghing here is pozidriv (slightly improved phillips) or hex.What i love about torx is that you can use it for stripped hex screws.
Where I'm at, robertson screws are about 1.5 to 3 times cheaper than torx. I can't justify that cost increase, especially since torx aren't much of an upgrade in the first place.
GRK is expensive, though a super-high-quality screw. There are Torx screws available at normal prices, so don't be discouraged if you price GRK screws thinking they'll all be like that. I recently built some utility shelves for my storage room and grabbed a box of Torx screws by mistake. As I had them, I decided to go ahead and use them. What a big difference! Not a single stripped head! I'll be using them in the future whenever possible. Thanks for the helpful video!
I learned about Robertson screws in Nova Scotia. I have been bringing them home to New Hampshire, and use them wherever possible in my old house here. I find it worthwhile to order small boxes of screws on line, and I sometimes put off projects until the appropriate Robertson screws arrive: it only takes a few days. This is merely a way of optimizing my work.
Slitted screws are really the worst. In repair projects, they actually lose time and accuracy.
Now I know what those square screwdriver bits that came with my Craftsman toolkit are for. Their design seems very logical and preferable. I use Torx screws a lot but might prefer Robertson if I could find them. Also, 'The History Guy' YT channel gives a nice overview of the different screw types. Very informative.
SWFL cabinet industry has adopted Robertson years ago. Its all we use as well. I wish PB SWISS sold power bits like other bit manufactures.
The Robertson and the torx are pretty equal competitors. However when you start running the same screw in and out multiple times, corners get rounded. the Robertson only locks up on four corners where the torx locks up on six.
In the UK, my experience of torx for many years was only in cars where it is the modern fixing of choice to hold trim and fittings etc.
More recently they have appeared in construction screws mostly for high torque applications such as very long screws or "direct to masonry" concrete screws which are absolutely fantastic and incredibly accurate.
No more timber pre-drill to mark the brickwork in order to masonry drill and plug - one drill bit straight through timber into the brick and drive the screw in.
They have incredible holding power and even work brilliant into the ultra lightweight "crunchie bar" style aerated blocks.
In Australia,Robertson are used mainly in Decking,Pergolas,and I do think we are a bit behind as we mainly use Philips,and posidrive2 for cabinetry,and furniture,also out door furniture,I would like to see us using the Torx.
If you invest in quality Torx driver bits and self-cutting screws you can blast in huge screws into wooden structure all day long. I recently built some drywall frame with some and the speed you could do it was just amazing. I was actually dissapointed when I finished as driving in long Torx screws with a good power driver is very theraputic.
I have used basically a lot of types of screws throughout my entire life and let me just say that the triwing and the robertson are what I consider to be the best screws.
As for torx, torx has the exact same problem philips has, which is that is likes to slip and cause screw stripping.
Square drive is becoming more and more common in the U.S. It's a superior design, and they're less likely to cam like a Phillips. If I remember my history, the Phillips was designed to cam out when over-torqued. They were originally made for use in automotive assembly lines that employed a lot of unskilled labor. It was not uncommon for the workers to over-tighten a screw and snap the head off. This added extra cost and time to the job because the broken screw had to be drilled out and replaced. The Phillips was designed so that the head slots would round off and kick the driver out before the shaft of the screw broke.
I'm an electrician and love the Robertson type screws in electrical panels and electrical devices.
I have just today first learned about the Robertson screw. I heard an episode on the radio of The History Guy titled the Screw Wars. The story made me want to learn more about the Robertson Screw. As a US citizen, I am disappointed that we adopted the Phillips screw. The Robertson screw in my opinion, is a much better design. Having stripped many phillips head screws, I can easily see the superiority of the Robertson design. They are both better than flat heads, but history and some powerful people resulted in the US adopting in inferior design. Torx screws are definitely superior to the phillips head, but I can tell that the Robertson design is on par with the Torx.
As an American that is forced to put up with Phillips and straight slot screws and screwdrivers….. no one is more appreciative of a Robertson screwdriver and screw. Torqx is equal to it but still love the simplicity of a Robertson.
Dear Canada I like your Robertson head screws but we like our Torx screws and I would like to try the Robertson screw to accept your Canadian ways simply signed USA
Robertson Screw > any other screw
Robertson head screws are my favorite. Put the screw on the bit and it stays. You can even hold it upside down and shake it and most of the time it still stuck to the bit. No magnet needed. Doesn't seem it cams out or strip like the Phillips or any other style of bits. As an American, I'm very jealous of our Canadian brothen. They got it right on screw bits. I spit at Henry Ford for keeping the Robertson down. I'm not all about that whole "milk comes in bags" thing tho. That's just not right
I like both, but I find in using 6" screws the Torx bit is more likely to round off and not keep it's shape as long. Good job on doing the tests
There are 2 ways of looking at this video: 1. It is very interesting/absolutely fascinating and 2. How can it be / how come I have ended up looking at videos like this?
We all deal with the Covid-19 lockdown in our own unique ways. Thanks for watching! 😁
Hello sir, just a comment, Stanley came out,quite a few years ago, with a extension screw gun that was what we called square drive, shame it had a flaw so they don't make it anymore but I still have it. It's very difficult to fine those type screws here in the states
Torks was patented in 1971 but it was not until many years later that I saw the first packages of Torks in my local hardware store. I tried the screw and it was - by far - the best screw I had tried here in Denmark. They were unreasonably expensive and their price was not conducive to their sale. A few years later they could also be bought cheaper and as they were much easier to use than other screws they quickly won the market and today they fill more than nails in the hardware store. Nails are probably on their way out.
Buy a bit that is magnetic ... then it holds the Torks in all positions. (By the way, the Bits also have colors by size.)
Hi. Interesting video, bit disappointing for Canada not having torx. Regarding screw standing on bit, do you have magnetic bit holder for bits in Canada? And can you make video driving 8x400mm Robertson screw without pre driling? Greetings from Europe.
When using finish screws with very small heads I've found the Robertson heads cam out far more readily than the Torx heads. I found this to be particularly true when using stainless steel screws. I believe Robertson heads on Stainless to have greater problems due to the inherent qualities of stainless being more ductile than steel screws.
On the occasions I've had to remove screws with Robertson heads it seems they cam out far more readily with removal than the Torx screws. I believe that the six driving surfaces of the Torx reduce pressure on the screw material considerably compared to the 4 driving surfaces (corners) of the Robertson screws, which leads to camming or rounding out with repeated use of the screw heads on Robertson type heads such as on those occasions when installation is followed by later removal.
Thanks for the video. Most people use a magnetic bit holder, this helps keeping screws like Torx, Pozidriv and Philips etc. in place.
I don't think you can buy Robertson screws or screwdrivers anywhere in Europe. I have never seen a Robertson screw except from here on TH-cam in North American videos. Here everyone use Torx, before that Pozidriv and before that slotted. The only exception is pretty much drywall screws which are Phillips PH2 like in the rest of the world.
Having 'discovered' Robertsons screws on TH-cam and being totally fed up with Pozidrive screws camming out on me and being unremovable, I'm seriously considering using only Robertsons from now on - !
I purchase this torx screws to set the raise floor foundation to pour concrete all the 2X8X12's hold to the ground stakes Perfect did not had any concrete brake out of the box. the self taping feature makes it real easy to drill in and out , plus none of the screws got damage or the bit!. they are bit more expensive but same me allot of time.
YAY, I learned something today!!! I have never heard of Robertson drive. But oddly, I have lots of them in my shop. I just called the square drive. LOL Thanks Art
Good review. Props on being unbiased.
I live in the USA, and life was good until Home Depot and Lowe's both switched from Square-Driv (Robertson/Phillips combination) to Torx. Now I have to special order the Square Drives. Try screwing a Torx in when the drill has to be at an angle to the screw, when there's an obstacle in the way. I hate those things.
Good point, you can do slight angle on Robertson, but not like you can on a Phillips. Probably why even here in Canada they use Phillips on the screws on doorknobs, since you MUST hold the screwdriver at an angle for those
Whether torx screws will stay on the driver very much depends on the quality of the driver. In one closeup shot of the torx driver you can already see some wear. In my case, I get much better results from my Snap-On driver bits than I get with the ones I got from Harbor Freight...
Like you, I've been using Robertson for ever, then I went to my local Lowes to buy more and all they had were Torx!!! After my initial negative attitude and resistance to change :) I think I will give them a try.
Home Depot has some Torx head Tap-Cons, and they were pretty satisfying to put in, compared to the Tap-Con aggravation that can happen. The only problem is Torx bits are still somewhat alien to my tool boxes, just because they are more recent and less common, but as long as I have the bits I'm happy to use Torx.
Hi Art and nope I did not catch that at all LOL. A great video on these screws. Something I got to thinking about was does a pilot hole have to be drilled when using the Torx Screw ? Given the the shape of the tip of the Torx Screw it really resembles the tip of an auger and if I'm looking at this right it's probably not necessary to drill a pilot hole. What was the cost difference ?
+GiddyUp994 These particular torx bits were designed to not need a pilot hole, according to the box. Probably intended for softwood/construction. I did not really look too much into cost differences... that will vary so much by where you live.
I live in southern Maine USA. There was a salvage store selling a bunch of robertson screws for dirt cheap. So I grabbed a bunch of various sizes. I have used torx a lot and I really like them. But the Robertson screws are excellent. They work just as good that I can tell. I do like self tapping screws.
hi art Have you tried the low root #8 screws from lee valley ? They have same self threading feature. cheers
I went looking for Robertson screws at both of the big box stores here shortly after your last video since I needed to re-stock. I could not find a single one. Lots of Phillips and Torx. I went with Torx's and will slowly be moving all my screw stock to those as I replenish my supply.
+Michael Olson presuming you are from the states.... I would probably also take a good look at torx. Mail order from amazon or mcfeely's (or somewhere else) are the only easy options for Robertson bits down there.
I am in Australia, i was reattaching all the palings on my fences using cross tip screws and drove out of the screw and stabbed my finger with the driver tip, i now have a set of boxes of Robertson screws and finished the fence job with them, fully convinced that the Robertson screw is far superior to cross tip but they are hard to find here.
Robertson screws are popular with boatbuilders and often used in residential decking. Perhaps they are now marketed as socket head screws.
Agreed. Robertson all the way. My FiL on the other hand, you can actually see him bristle when you break out a packet of Robertsons when he was looking for his mish-mash of Phillips.
Nothing beats a Robbie and they are magnetized as well. Although GRK's have the best screw threads of all screws.
GRK is riding the coat tails of SPAX fasteners.
Canada, the magical land of superior screws and bagged milk.
Actually bagged milk is not everywhere in Canada... ;-)
Whoa, milk comes in something other than bags? What is this newfangled technology?
@@Wordsnwood In California many of the schools in the 90's and 2000's started using bagged milk because of a push by DuPont who claimed bagged milk was more environmentally friendly because the plastic bags are more compressible than paper cartons and thus take up less landfill space.
The cartons are compostable though, which many cities in California began doing.
It comes out of a bag initially, why not retail it I pin a bag. Seriously though, haven’t seen it in bags for years in NL.
Bagged milk seems to be an Eastern Canada thing. Not in Manitoba to the west coast.
they normally color code both robertson and phillips up here in canada. very helpful.
I completely agree with our conclusions.
I am indifferent between torx and robertson; either is much better in every way than slotted or phillips, and fully address the failings of the latter two. In Oz, which is late to the party in (slowly) ridding itself of phillips, robertson screws are typically cheaper than torx, which are mainly seen in applications like very long, high torque screws for decking and framing.
My first introduction to the Robertson was in the 1970s in South Florida seeing them used to build mobile homes and I thought they were great.
The GRKs are self-drilling, self-tapping screws require a pilot hole and generally for metal. Virtually all wood screws are self-tapping.
Love your videos, thank you!
GReeKs and SPAX NEVER split the wood nor need a pilot
That's crazy, I've never come across a Robertson screw, ever. Plenty of Torx screws as German cars I work on seem to use these exclusively.
Robertson fault: th-cam.com/video/R-mDqKtivuI/w-d-xo.html
could it be a case of surface area for grip. in the end use what you got. I only recently heard of the robertson. I have seen them down here below but didn't know the name . very educational video. i'm a more phillips because it is the most comment where i come from (can you guess). I think we use robinson for decking and patios, but i'm not sure
Wild somewhere out there Roberson's are the standard.
I only see them for pocket joints.
Also yes a standard torx falls off but if you use them regularly you get a wedge bit. Which does the same thing as the roberson.
Looks like it depends on your neck of the woods. I was used to Philips and was blown away when I discovered Torx many years ago. Robertson's is non existent here in Europe but seems to have many similar advantages.
Being from Pennsylvania, most of my life, there were only slotted screws and Phillips headed screws available. Now, a lot of the screw aisle at Home Depot or Lowe's is Torx heads, which I really like to use. I am, however, really liking the Robertson (called square drive here) screws that came with the Kreg pocket screw jig. I will not, likely, have to use slotted or Phillips screws again...thankfully.
How well it stays on depends on how deep the torx head is. Your crews seem to have a very flat head and thus it has a very shallow torx slot. If it is deeper it will stay on better. However, if you want it to stay on real well, I would recommend hex heads, those things can be hard to pull out because they don't have a taper and they are very snug.
Thanks for the comparison. I've used the GRK screws and they are excellent. Unfortunately what you ended up doing for most of the video was comparing the screw rather than the head design. In my experience, both Torx and Robertson are far superior to Philips and it's really a tossup between them.
as an electrician the most common one i have run into is the #2 square or #2 Robertson. for grounding screws and set screw connectors and set screws couplings, as well as a lot of the screws on panel covers and the screws on the breakers
Red Robbie for the grounding screw, but Green Robbie for attaching the plug/switch/whatever to the box. At least here in Canada.
Here in Mexico the Roberts are virtually unknown. But lately a company that makes electrical switch boxes (Square D) includes a combo screw Flat and Robertson.
Great video. the difference was in fact the self tapping screw.
I never knew of Robertson screws until I spent 4 year in US yacht building....thats all we used. On year when we produced an "anniversary edition" we were instructed that every screw we drove that might be visible had to have a point of the socket at the 12 oclock position.
Good video. I think most of us in the US would gladly see Robertson take over for Phillips. But since most of the premium screws here have gone Torx, it is sort of academic that T(x) will be the standard. Hopefully sooner rather than later. The quicker Phillips and flathead die the better. I'd gladly throw out hundreds of dollars of screwdrivers and bits and replace them for new standards.
I have learned something. First time to see Robertson screws and drivers.
That pretty much agrees with what I've found. I tend to favor the Robertson a bit more, but they are hard to find in the U.S.
I first noticed the #1 square trim screws that I found very useful for trim work in the US many years ago. The square design makes it easy to work with very thin screws with a small head. They remind me of braid nails for trim work but are more secure. They carry them at lowes and home depot. The first trim screws I used were more of Philips design which rounds off fairly easy, making them difficult to remove. I later noticed these square screws which only recently, like yesterday were called Robertson. But other sizes are not so common in the US. On the box it just says square. I only could find 2 sizes for a #1 head: 1 5/8 and 2 1/2 inches long. I wish I could also find them at 1 inch long. Canada has it right using the square design. Sometimes I wonder who even uses slotted screws and why?
Informative video. What I got out of it was robertson and torx fairly comparable when plus and minus of each averaged out. Would have liked to have the phillips thrown into the mix - not my favorite but most common in the US. Also although probably everyones least favorite, is there still application for the flat head screw - seems to me, yes, when mimicking traditional woodworking.
I have nothing good to say about Philips screws...
For me flatheads have one major advantage. They can be operated with stuff, that's not intended ad screwdriwer. Knife, scissors, coins..
Hello, in Portugal and Europ the bits Philips and Torx or whatever are magnetized, so the screws hardly fall, maybe this is missing, thanks and greetings.
Even magnetized ( and this is more a patch for a non optimal product ) the Robertson does just that without any fancy addon; right out of the box !
I've never used a Robertson screw, but one thing I really like with torx is that you can angle the driver quite a bit and still drive the screw without slipping. Is this also true for Robertson?
+Thomas Lovén Yes you can, but I'm not sure about "quite a bit". (you mean angle the driver with respect to the screw, I assume.)
Simple: Torx and Phillips socket strips out easier. Designed for sheet metal assembly type work, light torque clutch drive air tool, assembly line. Roberson you can torque down on much more, slight tap on the end and they grip onto the driver tip very solidly, great in outdoor bad or cold weather. Solid feel feedback to the hand screwdriver or drill.
Nice ! But you missed a CAPITAL point here ! When I can buy a good ol' Robertson for pennies, I have to pay a premium for the GRK screws and an hefty one, to get not really an advantage. Robertson screws are one hundred years old and still ticking ! If they where not so great, they wouldn't have lasted so long !
Best screw heads ever !
slotted is older and absolutely garbage but by your logic they must be the all time greatest..
@@suicidaljell Philips heads have caused agony to engineers in Australia. A horrible design.