I like season 2, but cutting out Christa and never bringing her back again and completely WASTING the 400 days characters is what prevented season 2 from being perfect. Like just imagine a reunion between Clem, Christa and Kenny?
The determinants over which, if either, turned their back on her in s1e4 would be really unmanageable. I can't accept either Christa or Kenny wouldn't call out the other if they differed on that in the player's save (Kenny is only goes with Lee in 59% of saves; Christa in only 54%. They are together with Lee in 29% and both turn their back on Clem in 16%. It's much easier to write around with neither survivor being around each other to contradict the other. Like Omid and Christa might not having gone after her, but they'd have no reason to tell her that; nor would Kenny without them around to contradict him.
😂😂😂Krista and Kenny didn’t like each other so there is hardly any loss there at least from Kenny’s perspective. I don’t even think Kenny references Krista or mentions her. He mostly referenced Lee when talking to Clem.
Dallas Kroyer season 2 would have been trash without Kenny. Love him or hate him he makes the season it doesn’t matter if you think he is your family or enemy
@@kayden2119 Where the hell did you get that I hate Kenny? I love Kenny and think he is one of the best characters in the game series and TNF did him dirty. I am just saying it is stupid that they cut Christa and did ABSOLUTELY nothing with the 400 Days characters. Please don't ever put words in my mouth ever again.
You could explain it in-universe as a simple reality that if your seperated, your most likely not going to find eachother. The world is huge and full of danger, and people are sparse. Sad. Still wish our homegirl Christa wasn't left behind though.
@@jessewest5456That was the result of pure circumstance, however. Both Kenny and Clementine were heading towards Wellington because word of the safe haven had spread far and wide, and they consequently met as the cabin group was heading that direction. Lilly joined a militant group because of her military background that went to war with Richmond and was therefore searching areas around Richmond. These circumstances are believable causes of reunion. Christa got separated by Roman’s group on the way to Wellington and likely either went a different direction to avoid them or was killed by them.
well she was angry at clementime for not carrying the gun all ways with her because the girl entierd the bathroom and crabe the gun and when omide entierd the room she shooted omide
Clem knew Christa for 3 YEARS in the final version of the script. It is criminal how the writers forget this. Christa should have had the same, or even more of an impact in Clem's life as Lee. This original script is exactly what we needed!
I don't exactly think the writers forgot this. You can obviously see remnants of Christa & Clem's relationship from the original script in episode 1 of season 2. Christa and Clem have a very strained relationship, she's cold and distant towards her, it seems as if Christa blames Clementine for Omid's death, and she still hasn't gotten over it. This could have been further explored had Christa lived in season 2 but this didn't happen, in the original script this probably would have been definitely touched on. This is why Christa doesn't exactly have a lasting impact in Clem's life since the two weren't close at all compared to Lee.
I think it's more just that Christa and Clem's relationship is very poor by the time we meet up with them in the main timeline of season 2. They are clearly not getting along anymore, haven't for a while, and are probably only still together because they're terrified of being alone. Clem absolutely should have more of a reaction than she does - but maybe not MORE intense than Lee, because Lee died while they were still on good terms. From what we see in season 2, Clem and Christa just aren't on very good terms anymore, and I do think part of that is that Christa resents Clem a little for being the "reason" Omid died - and Clem probably noticed that.
@@LordofFullmetal I don't think Christa meant to dislike Clem. She might've not been able to help it though, which is an understandable feeling because your emotions aren't something you can completely seperate from your actions, even if you don't intend to hurt someone else.
@@LordofFullmetalNah! Clementine started season 2 actively looking for Christa but then the game just went in a different direction, probably because of time constraints they just abandoned that plot and moved onto the Carver story line. Then Kenny was brought back and it was all rushed from there. Season 3 they just introduced all new characters so there was still no room or time to expand on the mystery of Christa’s whereabouts. Clementine definitely didn’t have any bad feelings towards Christa. Christa was severely depressed because she lost her partner and her kid but she still cared very much for Clementine and would have sacrificed her life to save her. The writers should have had Christa do just that.
Yeah, I remember before episode 4's release there was a Russian guy who had the episode like 2 weeks early and showed Sarah and Rebecca's deaths and had confirmed that Sarita died in the episode, it just put me off the episode entirely.
Not gonna lie, I’m glad Christa didn’t live long in this season. I would’ve liked to se her return for a later season maybe, but I think that clem losing the last thing that connected her to her first group and being ultimately entirely alone made her more hardened personality make more sense and also made the kenny reunion more emotional. They were both the last remnants of that first group and the only thing tying them to people they loved.
I definitely appreciate that Clem's connection to her group was severed when she lost Christa and it made her who she became, but I hate how Christa's character was never resolved. She seemed hollow after losing Omid and her child and was seemingly getting by with no motivation but survival instinct. But the plot not only gets rid of her before she finds any closure but also leaves it ambiguous if she lived or died or whatever else happened to her. Imo the only worthy resolution we got is that she did truly care about and want to protect Clem to the end because she was being confronted by the bandits but was still desperately trying to buy Clem time to run by lying about being alone.
@Natalia Gomez Yes that is true. But they ultimately went with Lilly because they thought that Christa didn’t fit the profile of being a villain. But it was between her and Lilly. But I’m glad we got to see Lily again in S4. So yes, for now it remains ambiguous. I remember some people saying that she died. But there was no direct confirmation or anything. It’s as if the developers either forgot about it or they want to keep it a mystery. Who knows tho. Maybe we’ll get an answer one day
@@AvoidedParrot80 I think like Kenny (if you choose one of his two "unknown" endings), her fate is also unknown. I've always been of the opinion that if a death isn't told or shown directly or with in-universe hints, it either didn't happen or at best, is left to speculation. Having said that, given that both of them are the only two (that I am aware of) with multiple unknown fates, it's my opinion that it's fairly likely that both are alive somewhere (assuming you choose Kenny's unknowns, Christa's only differ slightly and are both still unknown)
I can safely say that to this day, Season 2 is one of the most tragic games I've played. Not so much for the game that we ended up with, but rather, for all this game could have been. 400 Days and the early days of Season 2 create an image of what could have been a sequel that stood side by side with it's predecessor. But instead, Season 2 felt like a dark warning to the path Telltale would take with their games moving foward, and what let to their downfall in the first place. There are plenty of questions I have about Season 2 to this day, going from mino moments that seemed to be setting up for something big or the fate of characters like the 400 Days cast. Sadly, even after all these years we might never get the full picture of what Season 2 could have been. But even then, I'm thankful that you're one of those people that are willing to answer that question for all the fans that were left in the dark for all these years. Maybe one day we'll know the full story, and I'm willing to wait for that day.
I’d have to go with The Last of Us 2 for this one; both for what we had to experience and what we lost by the end of it and because of what we the fans believed the game would be about vs. what we actually got 🏌️♀️
i feel like Sarah was such a wasted character and i wish teaching her to grow up after carlos dies would've been the best.. they just wanted to kill off Sarah and it sucks
I feel like it's fine on just one playthrough but when you replay and realise it just wasn't considered, that's what's frustrating. I get that a key theme is that humans make mistakes and can understand how despite everything Sarah just let slip. But to make it hardwired in game is what was so disappointing.
I think the point of her character was that she wasn't ever going to survive just like Jane's sister. They weren't raised right and couldn't handle it mentally. Sarah's the antithesis of Clem and Carlos the antithesis of Lee
I think they created Jane to replace Christa, everything that happened between her and Clementine was supposed to be between Christa and Clem, I just don't understand why replace and give such an inconclusive ending to an important character like Christa.
@@flacobrian3754 She definitely wasn't too busy to continue voicing Christa, judging by her filmography. Not wanting to continue begs the question of why.
And I think Christa and Kenny arguing is much better narratively than this stranger Jane. Christa lost her baby and doesn't want to let another one die and you know Kenny's reasoning, both care for AJ's safety but are at odds and it makes it harder to choose what to do. Shoot Kenny and save Christa? Let Christa die? Kenny is Lee's best friend a father figure like lee. But Christa is like a mother to you. What about AJ? Like come on!!
@@dragonblast417It also would have been an easy tie in to S1, something Telltale loves to do in future seasons anyway (how many times is Lee mentioned by name even in seasons like ANF?)
I genuinely believe Christa had the potential to become one of the most iconic characters, even paring to Kenny on some level. Had they utilised Kenny and Christa I believe what they showed was just scratching the surface of what could’ve been. Flashbacks should’ve definitely happened with Christa, to this day I’m disappointed at how they handled her.
If mike stole from Christa, and then they had to work around it because Kenny was part of mikes group and Christa and Kenny both had to stay with clem while looking after their respective groups, that dynamic sounds really interesting, like the group was barely hanging on because of tension because there was trouble between them.
i like mike's role as the mediator and only constantly calm and sympathetic one in the group. but it was so underutilised, the only major interesting thing he did was when he was the only one who showed concern for arvo.
As much as I really enjoyed season 2, the issue I found with it is the fact that there are lots of different bits and pieces that didn't quite make sense. For example, the 400 days characters being thrown in without there being much point to them (apart from Bonnie who ended up being a bad character anyway), the existence of Arvo which made so much more sense if it was originally meant to be Eddie, and the Kenny v Luke which ended up being switched to Kenny v Jane. It made the ending really easy for me to choose as I never liked Jane's character as I did Kenny or Luke. It all felt a bit like the first episode was the introduction to the group, then the rest of the episodes was killing them off one by one. For example, I never felt 'sad' about the deaths of Carlos, Alvin, Sarah, Sarita and so on. The deaths weren't as impactful.
@@dumb.minnesotan.moron.2005 I don't think anyone here hates Season 2. To the contrary, I see people still saying they like the game. But parts of the game are a mess, even without knowing about the cut content. Episodes 4 and 5 already weren't recieved that well, especially 4, for example Season 2 is a bit of a mess, not as much as A New Frontier but still not great. Which is sad because I know it could've been BETTER than Season 1 judging from these ideas, and Season 1 is the most consistent and best in the series in my opinion
Yeah S2 always had that strange air of disjointedness to it after the first episode, the arcs felt like it was going off into weird directions or outright stopping like you mentioned characters just dropping off from the rest of the season. A more focused story would've been great because as weird as the game was it has some good character moments that I enjoyed. As great as having Christa, Kenny and Sarita would've been. I can't fathom the idea of not having AJ in the series. Because I really grew to love the kid and how his bond with the other other characters.
Would have loved to see Christa in the mentor role for Clem in S2, even though I can't imagine the rest of the series and Clementine's character development without AJ D:
End of an era, after nearly 3 years. A shame it had to end like this, but what can you do? Glad we at least got one. Looking forward to whatever you have in store, next.
Yeah, you just about summed up my feelings when you said how depressing it is to not know what would've happened with the story that we care so much about. "Just think, there's a bunch of hard drives with all of this information stored in them" As much as I hate to say but, there might not be. The people who actually created the old stories, models, music, etc all left their work behind when they left the company, and their work was left with people who didn't care for it. I have actually seen this happen before with another game that I love. It came out in 2004 and to this day, people still speculate about its huge amount of cut content, and the worst part is that an ex developer of that game confirmed that the hard drives were all wiped after release, meaning all of the cut content is gone. It is completely lost to history, and nothing but uncertainty is left. It really hurts to think about, but with old Telltale gone, I think The Walking Dead Season 2's cut content is also lost to history. We will most likely never know the truth and that's always gonna annoy me and depress me.
What's worse, that they do exist and we'll never see them - or that they did and were wiped like you said? Out of curiosity, what game is it you're talking about?
I feel like the first option is the most irritating while the second is the most depressing. And the game I was talking about is called Crash Twinsanity, a game notorious for being glitchy and for having about 60% of the game cut out. 16 years later and people still haven't forgotten. It's games like these that make me wish we lived in a perfect universe with no rushed releases, no corrupt CEOs, just talented people creating video games because of passion, not for some dream of becoming the Netflix of gaming where you can rush out new games constantly with 0 effort and still expect huge profits.
I can safely say that literally every asset still exists. They repurpose/reuse a LOT of stuff for other games, and literally everything made is part of an "archive/library".
nearly a decade later and this game and its characters are still present in my mind. hearing that stuff about christa and sarita just breaks my heart. knowing now that all these characters that i cared about were originally going to be so much bigger, but had it all stolen from them thru re-writes. almost 8 years later, that still really hurts.
one thing that always MAJORYLY annoyed me is that, why replace one pregnant lady which we know has trouble getting along with people, with another pregnant lady that cant decide on a personality. I would have felt WAYYY more attached to omid jr then aj. I kind of thought that's what they were going to do as one of the last things omid and christa talked about was naming their kid Omid jr... and then go and gives us Alvin jr which i had trouble being attached to since I didn't really gel with Alvin and Rebecca that much.
I've never thought about that deeply before but you are totally right! why leave christa to be cut off from the series with a baby who was literally discussed to be a junior, only to replace it with another pregnant lady who also loses her partner and has a baby which the player never gets time to bond with?
@@rlsx yeah and at least if junior asked about his parents we could be like They were brave people who took me in when I was alone And hey sad cause guilt for omid Instead of ... ya know Well your dad got killed but might not have been your dad so he either killed your dad or got murdered Your mam was very mean And they both locked me in a shed to die ! 🤗
@@glitchglue3900 yes, the motivation is there for the player to look after junior. clem could feel guilty for omids death and wants to do better by junior. she could tell them about christa and omid helping lee, omid getting his leg hurt by lee etc, and it could just be nostalgic for the player also.
@@rlsx Yup but no we get little boy who literally could still be the same model since both couples were black, and like they wouldnt have even been different ages either and ajs personallity is the same as all 4 adults . goofy and serious and clem molds the rest
Episode 1: All That Remains Everything was supposed to be same, only some Minor changes were there Winston was supposed to fall to his death while fighting Clementine. One of the Scavengers named Ralph was supposed to Be originally Mike(He also played a key role to the the game which I'll get back to later on) Clem would've Kept Sam the dog for quite a while and Pete would've been able to die this episode no matter what. Episode 2: Don't look back This went through several redesigns. Kenny was intended to be Carver and then Troy (as we see him in the next time on cutscene) but it turned out to be Carver. Anyways back to the topic. Kenny would've showed up at the Cabin and burned it down and Clementine's group would run until eventually the 400 days characters would be with Kenny. Alvin would've shot Wyatt if Tavia convinced him to join. Sarita and Walter were not yet implemented. Episode 3: In Cold Blood Clem's group would've been brought to Howe's Hardware and meet Mike. I have no idea if Jane was supposed to be implemented in the episode or not Clementine would've had Christa flashbacks and she was Distrustful of Mike as he was the cause Christa went missing. Mike was supposed to lose his ear as Victor(the guy in ep1 who u decide to give water or not) was attempting to shoot Christa in but accidentally shot Mike's ear. The talkies were meant to be used by Rebecca to contact Luke. Rebecca was supposed to have AJ this episode and that was supposed to be a lot darker as she was not gonna survive the pregnancy and was going to die of blood loss immediately. Group would've escape howe's the same way with Carlos dying. Nick would've shot Becca (Shel's sister) Shel would've become a walker and Tavia would've fallen off the roof. Mike would've been shot or Spared. Either way this was his last appearance. Episode 4: Amid the Ruins It was supposed to be a darker compared to the one we have right now. The survivors from Howe's would've been Nick, Sarah, Luke AJ and Clem. Vince and Bonnie would've never appeared Eddie would've appeared in this episode but troy would've killed him. And Kenny wouldve killed Nick. Sarah would've run off to the snow. Episode 5: Better to Sleep With just Clementine, Luke and AJ left against Kenny and Troy, They would've wandered around the snow storm and get Separated. Clementine was supposed to fight Troy as he was going to Molest Clementine which in my opinion is not 100% true. But they were going to fight. Clementine would've shot Troy and made it to the rest stop. There she would find Luke with AJ and Kenny trying to Kill Luke after realising he was bit. Both of them would get into a fight and Luke would kill Kenny and Clementine would shoot Luke as he was bit and going to turn. Clementine could've made a decision to Either Leave AJ or Take him with her which in my opinion was really dark. Either way Clementine would've set off alone.
No offence, but there's not a lot of supporting evidence to back up your claims here. I understand that the game was heavily altered, and I know that a couple of these concepts are in fact true, but most of them are merely speculation. I've seen a few of these concepts discussed before, but there's no real proof behind them ever truly being planned.
Season two was a very strange game for me. I was so hyped at the time to be playing it after season 1. And I honestly absolutely loved it at the time. And I still do cherish the memories of playing it. But now, knowing what was going on at the time within telltale. Knowing what season 2 leads to (season 3), it all just taints the experience for me when replaying. Overall I did like what we got but I do recognise a lot more could’ve been done with the season. And it is kinda sad
I feel the same way. I will still never forget the community, fanart, theories and discussion during those days but seeing how the sausage gets made has definitely made me view the series in a different way.
Yeah, I think for me I feel fulfilled mostly by the first three episodes, especially episode 3. But for episode 4 and 5 (even though they’re my favourite episodes) I feel like they could have been so much more if they just reverted to some of the aspects the previous scripts had, especially Kenny vs Luke instead of Kenny vs Jane. I also think this game would stand out more if they kept some of the darker parts in, the only ones I don’t think they should have kept is the ending of clementine and AJ dying, and clementine getting r worded by Troy. They’re just far to morbid and disturbing
I think the group would’ve been more engaging if Jane as a character was scrapped and replaced by Christa. Meeting her again in Wellington after loosing her in the beginning could have made for an emotional moment. I wouldn’t want to see Kenny and Christa have a similar fight to Jane and Kenny, but the decision would’ve been harder this way.
Yeah, although that wouldn't be the last time they tried bringing back Christa, in the Final Season Lilly's role was instead Christa, which already Lilly was supposed to reappear back in S1 Ep5 and never did, but reappeared in TFS)
I would have LOVED if Christa was included to the story, building a close relationship with Clem and interacting with Kenny. In fact it would have been great if at the end of S2 the surviving group members were Christa, Kenny, Clementine, Pete, Alvin, Walter, Mike and maybe even Sarah to watch her become stronger and more capable. It was disappointing for me that the Characters in S2 had not much depth or development (except for 2 or 3 characters maybe) and didn't were important to the story. Kenny definitely saved this season for me, also because i cried my eyes at the wellington scene. So he is the only reason, why S1 and S2 are on the same level for me, despite all the many flaws S2 had.
Season 2 is perhaps my favourite season of the Walking Dead due to how depressing and dark it is, and it's really interesting how different the original script was. Thank you so much for all these videos over the years, I'm really excited to see what you make next!
I think that the story focusing on Christa would be cool, there aren't really many narratives in gaming about motherhood. There's plenty about fathers, but mothers aren't really that common, especially as main protagonists AND with a complicated relationship with their child to boot (like how you imply that Christa would feel some kind of anger towards Clem for getting Omid killed and still reeling from losing her own biological child). I think that this kind of complex quasi-mother-daughter relationship would be very unique, with Clem and Christa slowly fixing their bond as the game progresses (or not, depending on how the player plays). Sarita being more important and bonding with Clem and Christa over Kenny would be really cool too, again, there aren't many cool, kinda badass widows in video games (but there's plenty of widowers). A game spearheaded by three badass women of color would certainly be something memorable and different. I like the season two we've got, with the narrative focusing on being a young teen forced to mature too fast, but it's fun to explore other options we could've gotten.
The OG Script for Episode 1 is pretty damn great seemingly, except the dog bite which I feel is a bit silly still regarding how Carlos is a doctor and can't tell that it isn't a human bite, but maybe the original group never had a doctor at all. The final choice also seemed, as you put it, pretty obvious in terms of what most people would choose so there either had to be more nuance to it than we realised or it would have gotten more nuance as they wrote more and planned out it ahead. I honestly wish we got something of a mix between the OG and the Dark Script though. I'd want to have Christa around and all of that, but in their darkest moments before they found Wellington and a light at the end of the tunnel, the group is tearing apart at the seems and having them split up, maybe as a result of the tiger or whatever they ended up doing, Kenny and Luke duke it out and Clem is forced into this horrible decision. Although, that's just my opinion and I am a lover of dark and gritty stories.
As a huge Christa stan, I’m so disappointed that she wasn’t a bigger part of the story. Personally, I would have much preferred the first script over what we have now, even if that means that A New Disaster and The Final Season as we know them wouldn’t exist. It would have been incredibly satisfying to watch Christa and Clem’s relationship develop after what happened to Lee, Omid, and Christa’s baby. And on top of that, Kenny’s gross character assassination wouldn’t have happened in episode 5. Killing him off (and allowing Clem to bond with Sarita over his death) would have been much better, in my opinion. I like to think that he would have died as the well intending, but rash family man we knew him in Season 1. Not batshit crazy and aggressive like Telltale wanted him to be. Thank you for giving us this insight into what the first draft of the story would have looked like. For so long, I almost felt like I was grieving Christa because of how shittily that loose tie was handled. But now I feel like I have closure, lol.
Yeah the intent was to definitely bring closure to the Christa thing. I think it's because of that old script that it was kind of cursed grounds that nobody wanted to bring up Christa again which is pretty depressing but at least now people know.
I remember the first time I played S2 on January 2015 Yes, I've waited the entire season to launch to play it all at once. I finished it all in 2-3 days because I was INSANELY invested in it. I watched the TV series, played the first game and read some issues of the comics, but when I played S2 something inside me just transformed, I felt myself changing. I cannot describe it. Whenever I think of TWD as a whole, I think of Clementine...on the snow...having to choose between killing Kenny or looking away (which I still think was the hardest f*ing choice I've ever made in a game). It's funny, because though I KNOW S1 is better, I can't help myself but LIKING S2 more, even though the really cool cut ideas. It created mystery, it raised a new world inside this apocalyptic era of TWD, brutal community, people dying and betraying you around every corner. Even though the really nice features and content you've shown us here (I've been a fan for quite some time now great vids btw) the only thing I really miss on S2 is Christa's absense (also your theory on Ed replacing Arvo, it would've been MAZING if that's what we've really got). I had hopes of Christa coming back on another season, but it didn't happen, so I put the guilt of it on this season instead on ANF and TFS. Maybe she could've shown up at Wellington? IDK. I absolutely love S2 despite it's mistakes and I wouldn't change it structurally as these early versions of the story would. Thanks for reading.
Aye, S2 felt very odd as it went on. It wasn't as character focused but it was still interesting seeing how they handled Kenny's increasing deteriation. I think they kinda pushed a little too far with him imo and other characters didn't really get the love the could have, but yea it seemed p rushed and mangled. Also damn I forgot about all the shit you mentioned at the end they left out. Crazy. Anyway lovely video my guy x hope you're staying safe
Personally, I'm satisfied with what we got as the end story for the second season. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that I like the second one more than the first one because I really dig the atmosphere the second season provided. The first season was a little on the nose about how the World has gone to shit and the people are cannibals and kidnappers and stuff? But the second season shows realistic people trying to survive and going crazy seeing their loved ones die in their arms. You can argue with me if you want. But still, I enjoyed this video so much and I love your accent. I'm a new subscriber and honestly, I was surprised to see you upload on the day I subscribed lel. Also surprised that there are no links in the description, weird.
The only thing that left me satisfied with season 2 was the Wellington endings, those endings pretty much saved the season for me, but everything between episode 1 and the very endings of episode 5 I was never satisfied with because of how rushed it all was.
I think it's important to have a healthy balance of realism/hope though. I think that's why I like the Wellington ending the best, you can't have a game that's just pure misery since it's not all that engaging and it's easy to do. I think that's why I like S1, there were some pretty dark moments, hell, the ending is one big one - but it was scattered with many good points with the hope that things will get better.
I'd have loved to see this take. What we got with the back end of S2 and S3 was a mistake caused by TTG executive shenanigans, especially when they kept agreeing to unprofitable licensed games when they were stretched as is. I still appreciate the good elements of S2 and even a few moments in S3 (the period scene was a nice humanising moment that reminded us Clem was still growing up) but it breaks my heart knowing how things ended. How S4 had so much scope cut because of TTG falling through and the devs missed out on a chance to truly redeem the series just as they wanted. ICB, was the rumored Troy molester / Kenny antagonist plot part of this dark script then? I'm kinds glad it was cut if we were going to get low quality writing / content here.
Very organized and well projected video. Always satisfied with your level of care and thought into each and every one of your videos. I’m glad we still have folk like you in this community! Can’t wait for the next vid! -Ian
Your channel is a goldmine. You done some really nice work out here by putting this online, back in the day I loved the TellTale Walking Dead and would had been all over this stuff, although Im only finding out about this now 4 years later, its still very interesting. Live a blessed life friend.
The creators of telltale left a company for them to make a better company to have freewill to make great games but in the end they didn't even give their own devs the freewill
I thought I wouldn't learn anything new for this series, but here you are. Thanks for making these videos, it means a lot to people like me who love stuff like this
Personally, I enjoyed the feeling of having a larger group gradually getting whittled down to a very small group. It gave the feeling of the world rattling apart at the seams and nothing being certain, like being unable to stop the inevitable ending of everything.
I remember all of the crazy theories on Christa coming back, especially since the game did just that with Lily in the final season. People had even crazier theories for some of the characters that were clearly shown to die like Lee and Kenny. Good times.. Its also funny that you mentioned the great quality of Episode 1, I thought so too since I legit thought that Episode 1 was a preview of the whole season when the teaser/trailer came out, it just seemed so cinematic. Season 2 and 3 are kinda weird for me, there was a lot to like about them.. but also not much. The original script and having Clem be the focus of season 3 with the survivors would've made me love them much more.
After I found out about the Dark Story plotline(s) I think the one we got was still better. But here’s some doable changes that would’ve fixed the final version’s problems: 1. Make the title cards accurately portray events of the episode, and not mislead the player. 2. Keep the cut fishing scene since it was already completed, this would’ve added more variety of activity and possibly more depth into Alvin’s character. 3. Keep Mike as one of the scavengers like originally planned, so it adds more tension/depth when we see him later. Also have Roman as one of the scavengers (see below). 4. If we give water to Victor, he could at least explain what happened (i.e. Christa got away, Carver and company killed them because Bonnie would’ve remembered Roman). 5. If we teach Sarah to defend herself, make her determinately able to survive to e5-but only if we save her from the trailer park in e4. 6. If we choose to admit stealing the walkie-talkie to Carver, he beats Clem (not as severely) instead of Kenny, thus saving Kenny’s eye. 7. Depending on wether or not we chop off Sarita’s arm, at least make the choice have Kenny treat us better. 8. Cut all references to the town across the river from Parker’s Run for continuity’s sake. 9. Keep Eddie instead of Arvo, and replace the Russians with the 400 Days determinants/Carver’s remaining crew. (The choice to rob him or not would also affect the interaction, and the way remaining characters view you even if it’s just a little bit.) 10. At the end of e4, make the choice of wether or not we shoot Rebecca determine the fate of Bonnie or Mike in the fight with the 400 Days crew. 11. If Nick survives past e2, give him more interaction/development, and make him (determinately) die in the frozen pond instead of Luke. If not, have Jane in the frozen pond situation instead. 12. With either Jane or Nick determinately at the frozen pond, make the choice matter to cover them or save them. (This would allow them to survive or die, If they do survive they would leave with Eddie and Bonnie/Mike.) 13. Replace the Kenny vs. Jane fight with Kenny vs. Luke. 14. Have the gatekeeper at Wellington confirm that Christa is there! Imagine what that interaction would be like, especially if Christa saw Clementine AND Kenny after thinking he was dead. This would make the final choice more interesting.
Hi, sorry I’m responding 2 years later. I like a lot of these points except No.9. The 400 days characters are all determinant so what would happen if you chose to not bring them over? Instead have someone from Carvers group mention fighting other groups. Atleast that would explain Romans corpse and the bandits deaths and it could tie into the Russians (except get rid of Arvo, add back Eddie, and you can keep Natasha I guess) No.10 is interesting because throughout all that gunfire nobody seemed to get hit except Arvo’s sister. Instead of Bonnie or Mike, make it one Eddie or someone else from 400 days that dies. There’s more to be said but I’m too lazy right now but again these sound great.
Yeah, Kenny should've not ended up villain as he was portrayed in the Dark story. BUT he also should've not ended up a psychopath like in final version.
@@lordjftw6991 Thanks! That's a good point about the gunfight w/the Russians. I figured since 4/5 400 Days characters are determinant, anyone that Tavia didn't recruit would just be replaced by a random member of Carver's camp. But I like your idea about tying it back to the group of bandits that ambushed Christa, and Romans corpse. That would make it even more interesting. I'm just one dude and I came up with all this in like 2 hours...I'm not even a writer so it makes me wonder why Telltale's team couldn't figure out similar solutions to at least some of these plot holes. I understand studios have tight schedules and budgets, but the final version almost plays like an unfinished demo, or an interactive movie than a game.
@@h0nza_ much agreed. It was obvious he had some serious PTSD, but Telltale showed their bias when Kenny says "You made the right choice." if you shoot him.
@@farawayoutpost8342 For someone who made all that in 2 hours that’s pretty good!! I agree with what you said about season 2, there’s so many rewrites and revisions that it makes it so weird. Now that I’m back to this comment lemme give my full opinions on your changes. 1. AGREED! Give Eddie his Justice he deserves. 2. Agreed! There was no reason to cut it, Season 2 already starts off hectic so having a nice moment is sweet. 3. This annoys me so much because they clearly had something like this in mind. You know how originally when the last episode aired Mike had a cut death? If you don’t know it’s where Bonnie, Arvo and him decide to leave, and Clem shoots him. They could’ve tied it into Christa going missing and if you decide to shoot Mike then it makes sense as to why Arvo shoots you. It’s ridiculous that Arvo treats Clem like shit regardless if you’re nice to him or not. 4. Agreed such a missed detail (my theory is that Christa’s VA had issues with the telltale team or something because there’s no reason to basically cut her out and never to be seen again). 5. YES!! Everyone pretty sure will agree to that. But where would she die? Maybe have her drown trying to protect someone? Have her shoot some walkers on the ice? 6. Not really a fan of that. I feel like Carver would maybe hit Clem but still beat up Kenny. 7. I want to agree with this so bad but it’s Kenny we’re talking about😭. He’s gonna be angry no matter what, butttt it would be nice to see if Kenny would treat us a bit better. 8. Yea this was such a dumb thing to add because it’s more closely related to the og dark ending. It should just be cut. 9. Already talked about that 10. Already talked about that 11. I like this 12. I also like this but I personally don’t see Jane leaving with that group (especially with Arvo and the meds). Can I see Nick leaving with them? Well if you say that for 13 it should be replaced with Luke and Kenny, I don’t see Nick leaving Like behind. 13. Agreed 10000000% 14. And yes as a Christa lover yess. Just imagine choosing between Kenny and Christa (I’d choose Christa) and she finds out Clem has a baby boy. I feel like it would be really interesting and full of drama.
Please please please keep making these videos, especially on the other scripts of season 2! I absolutely love them and I honestly don’t think I’d know anything about this interesting cut content if it weren’t for your awesome videos, so thank you.
What's the name of the background song at 13:51 its soo calming and relaxing ^-^ And btw love your videos always excited when I get the notification of a new video from you ^-^
@@InColdBloodTTG thanks soo much glad to know your always able to give support back to your community when needed anyway can't wait for your next video ^-^
I feel like instead of bringing back Lilly for season 4, they should had brought back Christa. Make it personal but having Chirsta say clem the reason Omid died, killed her baby (if they wanted to take the route) and is the blame for Lee's death. I feel like that would have made it more emotional. After being left alone after the start of season 2 Christa became hardened and always held a grudge with Clem due to Omid death
Honestly for me, Season 2 was the biggest mixed bag. I LOVED the first 3 episodes of the season but to me I think episodes 4 and 5 kind of dropped the ball. I like the ending to episode 5 but there was just so much wasted potential for it. Like that town that we saw, what the fuck happened to it? They teased us with it in ep. 4 and nothing came of it. It sucks that no matter what you choose when it comes to Arvo he always fucking shows up no matter what. When i first played it i was like “What the fuck man? I didn’t even steal from you!” 😭 But yeah I loved Season 2 don’t get me wrong and I wished they would’ve kept Vanaman’s and Rodkin’s vision because they were great in Season 1, but shit happens and I totally understand why they left Telltale considering how fucking horrendous the working conditions were, but hey man I’m glad you came through with these videos!!! You’re content is great and I can’t wait to see what you have planned in the future! (Maybe some Wolf Among Us? or Tales From the Borderlands? 🧐)
Great video as always, and I agree that your track record with your channel is sufficient evidence for me to believe that your source for all this is legitimate. This video answers a lot of questions regarding Season 2 I've always had, but there's one potential story thread that still bothers me. I remember Troy's voice actor making a comment about Troy being a much worse character, so much so that he thought he deserved to die. He said there were cut scenes from Episode 3 that made him much worse than he was, and some of the ways he interacts with Clementine and Sarah seem to support this. It seems to me Troy was supposed to be a predator or something of that sort. Perhaps he was just more physically abusive than already shown but I can't see why a few more scenes of him hitting Clem, Sarah, or anyone else would make his character that much worse to the point where the voice actor thinks they deserve to die. Well, regardless of what those scenes were, is there any evidence of them floating around? It sounds like if there were they would be part of the "Bruner/Dark Story Script" and if there were deleted scenes like he says there would've been remnants in the files. Of course, all this stems from a screenshot of a TH-cam comment that was made by the voice actor, so perhaps it's all hogwash. The screenshot in question can be found on Troy's page on TWD wikipedia, down in the trivia section first reference link.
Well I can't discredit what Owen said since there isn't neccesarily anything contradictory in the game files but I don't get the impression he was a major character, only that he was intending on being a bit more creepy (like when we asks Sarah if 'everything came out all right' after she pees). The character of Troy is 100% from the bruner/dark story because the Troy model was meant for Carver.
You definitely have something there with the Troy thing. If Troy was actually supposed to be pretty much a predatory rapist, MAYBE that’s why Jane shoots him in the dick when she kills him??🤔
I'm referencing this from a comment I read on another video, but I think he was made as a rapist who would do something to Sarah or Clem. Don't know for sure but you can definitely feel that vibe from him
I like how Season 2 turned out honestly, some of the ideas should have been kept but ultimately alot of what was kept I'm glad was kept. Time constraints can be a bitch so I'm glad that imo the story still turned put great and emotionally intriguing.
bro after i finished season 4 a week i didn't know where i was. The final was very strong. I didn't want to play any other game. The only game I've cried at ... a few times
All the potential in the writers at telltale, and so little to show for it. I can't think of another game which suffered so badly from cuts and re-writes. I've been told crash twinsanity got a lot cut, but I played the shit out of it as a kid so I think its still great.
Honestly kind of glad they didn't go with that plot. Kenny's ending at Wellington makes Season 2 all worth it. Everything was perfect to me. But still, I do feel like killing Kenny is the canonical ending, being with Jane and finding AJ still alive. So filled with hatred for the girl that made you kill your second father figure, you walk off into the snow alone and find Wellington alone. Accepting being alone unlike the first chapter when Clem was desperate to be with people. Not everything was done well but the ending fight was incredible and it solidified Kenny as one of my fave gaming characters
This is what I love about cut content finding out what the original idea is but a lot of the time it’s depressing to see what could of been from what was cut, anyway what will you do now since there’s basically nothing left to be found on twd?
@@rickfruitygrimes I don't think I could do them justice like other people have. The only other one or two I'd consider are from some of my other favourite games like Dead Rising (Stip0 has a great channel showcasing DR cut/beta stuff), Modern Warfare 2 which not too long ago was pretty barebones until one or two people got a devkit that was an early build of the game and showed off a bunch of cool stuff that I can't, and Dark Souls which has pretty much been dissected completely by many people. The only reason I'd consider doing it is if there's nobody else doing it and if it's a game that I really care about.
Tales From the Borderlands comes close to having your choices matter, but it’s just not in a huge way. Their Game of Thrones game also flirts with the idea of mattering choices especially in the earlier episodes, but that one has the problem of bloating itself with choices and getting the same bad guys win ending no matter what.
Talking about the intro of the video I do 100% trust your information when it comes to talking about telltale games, as your track record has shown how much effort you do to get actual information out.
I don't know why Skybound/Telltale can't just go back and add DLC that unlocks new alternate storylines like Lee or other characters like Ben/Larry/Lilly/Katjaa/Duck surviving past S1. There's probably a lot of money in that. Even now people are buying the shit out of the definitive edition. They could just add decisions during all the timeskips in S1 that affects things like the Kenny/Larry meatlocker scene because Kenny gets a chance to know Larry or Lilly better, or where you catch Ben when he makes the deal and save Katjaa/Duck.
For real man I loveeeee ur videos , they are so interesting reliable and fun too watch . I love these games , and this channel keeps everything fresh and new . So thanks for making these videos 💜🥳🦄💜
if skybound entertainment ever makes the walking dead: game 2. then i hope they reuse some of the scrap/cut/unused content that didn't made in the final version of all seasons. edit: please make the walking dead: game 2 skybound.
You really did change my views on the telltale games and now im kinda sad what could have been i always thought something was off but i never could put my finger on it im glad to have found this channel and i hope one day this all gets leaked of the actually story we should have got and maybe a company or someone redevelops the seasons again and makes some better seasons i doubt it will ever happen but i would love to see a story where clementines arc just doesnt turn out to be lees arc would have also loved to see if we would have more episodes than 5 or 4 if telltale actually put in more story and time into these games imagine every season after 1 having atleast 8 or 6 episodes all more than two hours long
After learning about better to sleep and learning about the dark script and especially after hearing the 3rd song you use in this video I’ve been envisioning a season 2 of mine that follows the possibility that season 2 would be the last season,for me the 3rd song you plays helps paint this picture and I know it’s just in my mind but i just love to think about a story where clementine is watching people die faster left and right and the groups faces in dread haunt this image but anyway the kenny vs luke possibility would have been much more heavier since you know Kenny bc he’s your old caretaker but he’s evil and luke is all trustworthy but he doesn’t hodl the sentimental feeling with Kenny since you’ve met him recently and I’m not really sure how that would work into the ending but I can’t say enough about how the series would’ve ended so good with that bone chilling period that you can only acknowledge, especially since season 3 was nothing noteworthy and season 4 was alright but to me the first 2 season are really where you hold feeling for clementine Yk? Season 3 almsot feels like they use clementine as a selling point but the first 2 i actually see her face these harsh situations man I can’t explain this shit
mannnn i wish the bruner script was added. i would’ve loved to see a focus on the human issues clem would’ve faced. carver is the only real human threat that the group faces. whereas in the first season, there’s a large multitude of human threats. the bandits, st. john’s, vernon’s group, and the stranger at the end. u can see what the apocalypse has done to people, the desperation to hold on to ANYTHING from the previous world.
Do more videos like this man! I want to see as much as there is to leaked and unused content from all of these games. It's a shame some of the scenes were never used.
Personally I think Season 2 is the most interesting for cut content. And thanks to your channel we’ve learned so much, I can’t wait to get into this video! 👍
Was it always planned for the second season to take place two years after the first? Cause I think a lot of problems with the original script could be easily fixed had they just not done the timeskip. The original ending with the class system, for example. You're right, choosing between the classes wouldn't be so hard because by default, you would want to stay with the people you knew, Christa and Sarita. But once you take out the timeskip, start the season with Christa 8-9 months in (I think it was a good idea to have some sort of timeskip, but two years? That's ridiculous.), and have her give birth during the season, you now have a new factor thrown in there. The original game had the right idea to introduce AJ, but I always thought it would make much more sense for AJ to be Christa and Omid's kid. For starters, we would actually have some attachment to him, because we knew Christa and Omid. We saw the struggles they went through in the first season, and we grew to like them and support them as Clem's caretakers after the finale. It would also add some sort of tension to your final decision. Do you stay with Christa and Sarita, knowing that the baby won't have automatic protection, or do you go to the higher class, knowing that you'll be separating the baby from his mom, and possibly never see her again? It just...seems like the most logical thing to do. But for some reason, they didn't do that. We were being played with the idea of Christa and Omid having a larger role in the next season, nothing came of it. We were given tons of subtle hints at Christa being pregnant, and while it was true, nothing came of it. There were a lot of loose ends from Season 1, and for most of them, nothing ever came up of it. I don't hate Season 2, but I truly do think we were robbed from a much better story, and it's a depressing thought knowing that we'll probably never get to see what that was. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Side note, I know fanfiction is a bit of a touchy subject for this fandom, but there's this really good rewrite of Season 2 that's been out there for quite some time now called "Young And Young At Heart" that I think some people might be interested in. There are big differences in it compared to S2 canon (Kenny, Luke, and the 400 Days cast are nonexistant), but it essentially tells the same story, and I think it does Clementine, Christa, and many others justice. If you're open to reading a fan interpretation, I'd give it a try. You can find it on the big 3 fanfic sites (FNN, AO3, Wattpad).
I agree completely with the Christa pregnancy thing, if they were gonna end up with a pregnant lady giving birth to a baby that corn looks after it should’ve been Christa’s baby
There was always going to be a timeskip though I don't know the exact length of time. At least 9+ months because Christa was never going to have her own child. I don't get the impression a baby was ever going to be part of the story the same way it is in the final game. I do agree though, if the point was to have a child in later revisions then it only makes sense to have it be Christa's. Also I think I recall taking a look at that specific fanfic you mention. I thought it was decent but I find it hard to enjoy because there are parts to S2 that I like and seeing them absent from it makes it feel much less of a rewrite and a lot more of an original take on the story, which is fine, but I quite like the intention S2 had at the start, forcing Clementine into a dark place only for her to be stronger for it yet still keep her humanity. If it had followed that level throughout the entirety of the season then I think I'd like it better than S1.
Great video, I wish the choices matter in this season, like with the 400 days characters and teaching Sarah the gun and all that, wish this season would of been much darker, your name and profile picture is dope as well, subbed 👌🏼
That part about Roman’s corpse always made me curious why he was there. I always assumed Carver’s men killed him and that group? Or maybe it was to save costs of making a new model? I’m probably wrong. I’ve seen this video quite a few times now.
I can't believe they would just throw away Christa for no reason, she and Omid were the turning tide of S1, after many tragic things had happened. I was really hoping to see them at that S1 ending scene.
17:09 good points. I think removed or changed content that made it a bit unlogical with the decisions. Must be Kevin. He wanted all the praise and ruined the games and company
Alright. After rewatching this video I have an idea of how the finale and first episode of season 3 could have looked like. Christa,Clem,Sarita and Rebecca would have made it to the end. Clem woukd have this choice to join the higher or lower class. Then in season 3 we would learn Rebecca had her baby thus AJ being in the story. Then The New Frontier or whatever they would have been called would attack the community. Rebecca would always die in the first episode and depending on which caste you chose you would start off with Christa,AJ and Sarita or alone with AJ and try to make it to them. Becouse you weren't with the group from the start Sarita would die offscreen but if you were in the lower caste she survives and probably dies later on in the season. And there would be none Javier and his family. I doubt they'd come up with them in this timeline. And if they would they'd just be characters who join your group. Javier not playable.
I love season 2 just the way it is, but I can definitely see a lot of lost potential in it. It would be cool if the entire series could be remastered some day, where there is more variability in how the storyline progresses and your choices have more impact. For example, Christa gets killed when you sneak away, but if you distract the bandits, she escapes and you eventually find her in episode 2. Basically what they did with Conrad they should have done with every character, where they can die early or survive well into the final episode or even beyond depending on your choices throughout the game. Another idea is that it was obvious that Sarah was going to die, but if you actually chose to get Jane to save her, she would have done so, and even though Sarah would be crippled, she would still be alive and the player/group would then have to deal with that outcome.
![โอ้เธอช่าง... - บี้เดอะสกา ft. ต๋อง เทวัญ (Prod. by ป๋าเพชร) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zbWhiLFmVL0/mqdefault.jpg)
I like season 2, but cutting out Christa and never bringing her back again and completely WASTING the 400 days characters is what prevented season 2 from being perfect. Like just imagine a reunion between Clem, Christa and Kenny?
The determinants over which, if either, turned their back on her in s1e4 would be really unmanageable. I can't accept either Christa or Kenny wouldn't call out the other if they differed on that in the player's save (Kenny is only goes with Lee in 59% of saves; Christa in only 54%. They are together with Lee in 29% and both turn their back on Clem in 16%. It's much easier to write around with neither survivor being around each other to contradict the other. Like Omid and Christa might not having gone after her, but they'd have no reason to tell her that; nor would Kenny without them around to contradict him.
😂😂😂Krista and Kenny didn’t like each other so there is hardly any loss there at least from Kenny’s perspective. I don’t even think Kenny references Krista or mentions her. He mostly referenced Lee when talking to Clem.
Dallas Kroyer season 2 would have been trash without Kenny. Love him or hate him he makes the season it doesn’t matter if you think he is your family or enemy
@@kayden2119 Where the hell did you get that I hate Kenny? I love Kenny and think he is one of the best characters in the game series and TNF did him dirty. I am just saying it is stupid that they cut Christa and did ABSOLUTELY nothing with the 400 Days characters. Please don't ever put words in my mouth ever again.
Nah I think it was good that Clem didn't get the perfection of Kenny _and_ Christa. That would be a little too perfect
This basically tells us why Christa was left and forgotten, because they changed the damn script.
You could explain it in-universe as a simple reality that if your seperated, your most likely not going to find eachother. The world is huge and full of danger, and people are sparse. Sad.
Still wish our homegirl Christa wasn't left behind though.
@@inwit594 You mean except for all the characters we do find again, like Kenny and Lilly. The characters reappear when the writers need a big twist
@@jessewest5456That was the result of pure circumstance, however. Both Kenny and Clementine were heading towards Wellington because word of the safe haven had spread far and wide, and they consequently met as the cabin group was heading that direction. Lilly joined a militant group because of her military background that went to war with Richmond and was therefore searching areas around Richmond. These circumstances are believable causes of reunion. Christa got separated by Roman’s group on the way to Wellington and likely either went a different direction to avoid them or was killed by them.
That line about "what if krista learned to love Clementine like a daughter she never had" *HURTS.* You got me in my feels right there😭😭😭
Ya
well she was angry at clementime for not carrying the gun all ways with her because the girl entierd the bathroom and crabe the gun and when omide entierd the room she shooted omide
DAMMMM
@@badreedinedjellali1328 yeah but still Christa should have stayed longer.
I hate that Christa's baby isn't even mentioned after the intro sequence
I love how everyone freaked out when he said "Still not bitten" was going to be removed. Same guys. Same.
That means that they would've all gotten bit :(
I mean. She got bitten but it didn't work because the leg infected. Thanks Minerva.
Clem knew Christa for 3 YEARS in the final version of the script. It is criminal how the writers forget this. Christa should have had the same, or even more of an impact in Clem's life as Lee. This original script is exactly what we needed!
I don't exactly think the writers forgot this. You can obviously see remnants of Christa & Clem's relationship from the original script in episode 1 of season 2. Christa and Clem have a very strained relationship, she's cold and distant towards her, it seems as if Christa blames Clementine for Omid's death, and she still hasn't gotten over it. This could have been further explored had Christa lived in season 2 but this didn't happen, in the original script this probably would have been definitely touched on. This is why Christa doesn't exactly have a lasting impact in Clem's life since the two weren't close at all compared to Lee.
@@george-xcx I feel the exact same way. They did Christa so dirty
I think it's more just that Christa and Clem's relationship is very poor by the time we meet up with them in the main timeline of season 2. They are clearly not getting along anymore, haven't for a while, and are probably only still together because they're terrified of being alone.
Clem absolutely should have more of a reaction than she does - but maybe not MORE intense than Lee, because Lee died while they were still on good terms. From what we see in season 2, Clem and Christa just aren't on very good terms anymore, and I do think part of that is that Christa resents Clem a little for being the "reason" Omid died - and Clem probably noticed that.
@@LordofFullmetal I don't think Christa meant to dislike Clem. She might've not been able to help it though, which is an understandable feeling because your emotions aren't something you can completely seperate from your actions, even if you don't intend to hurt someone else.
@@LordofFullmetalNah! Clementine started season 2 actively looking for Christa but then the game just went in a different direction, probably because of time constraints they just abandoned that plot and moved onto the Carver story line. Then Kenny was brought back and it was all rushed from there. Season 3 they just introduced all new characters so there was still no room or time to expand on the mystery of Christa’s whereabouts. Clementine definitely didn’t have any bad feelings towards Christa. Christa was severely depressed because she lost her partner and her kid but she still cared very much for Clementine and would have sacrificed her life to save her. The writers should have had Christa do just that.
I loved this season but episode 4 was so frustrating. They just rushed so many deaths. Nick. Sorita. Sarah. Rebecca.
Yeah, I remember before episode 4's release there was a Russian guy who had the episode like 2 weeks early and showed Sarah and Rebecca's deaths and had confirmed that Sarita died in the episode, it just put me off the episode entirely.
Episode 4 original is better than the final product
brian pagsibigan she gets bit at the end of episode 3 and dies in the beginning of episode 4
I got nick killed in episode two
I knew rebecca was going die when I saw the baby same with Sarah
Imagine if instead of it being Kenny and Jane fighting at the end it was Kenny and Christa!!!!! That would’ve made that season way more important
Interesting
Or Kenny Vs Molly
Or Kenny Vs Luke
Literally anything could have been better than Jane Vs Kenny as Jane was only introduced like 2 episodes earlier
Kuku Hindustani Gamer Kenny vs Luke sounds better than Kenny vs Christa and Kenny vs Jane
It should have been luke tbh his death was unneeded and he was originally supposed to survive anyways
KENNY VS CHRISTA WOULD KILL ME,
Not gonna lie, I’m glad Christa didn’t live long in this season. I would’ve liked to se her return for a later season maybe, but I think that clem losing the last thing that connected her to her first group and being ultimately entirely alone made her more hardened personality make more sense and also made the kenny reunion more emotional. They were both the last remnants of that first group and the only thing tying them to people they loved.
Agreed.
I definitely appreciate that Clem's connection to her group was severed when she lost Christa and it made her who she became, but I hate how Christa's character was never resolved. She seemed hollow after losing Omid and her child and was seemingly getting by with no motivation but survival instinct. But the plot not only gets rid of her before she finds any closure but also leaves it ambiguous if she lived or died or whatever else happened to her.
Imo the only worthy resolution we got is that she did truly care about and want to protect Clem to the end because she was being confronted by the bandits but was still desperately trying to buy Clem time to run by lying about being alone.
wait are you trying to say that Christa is dead!?!
@Natalia Gomez Yes that is true. But they ultimately went with Lilly because they thought that Christa didn’t fit the profile of being a villain. But it was between her and Lilly. But I’m glad we got to see Lily again in S4. So yes, for now it remains ambiguous. I remember some people saying that she died. But there was no direct confirmation or anything. It’s as if the developers either forgot about it or they want to keep it a mystery. Who knows tho. Maybe we’ll get an answer one day
@@AvoidedParrot80 I think like Kenny (if you choose one of his two "unknown" endings), her fate is also unknown. I've always been of the opinion that if a death isn't told or shown directly or with in-universe hints, it either didn't happen or at best, is left to speculation.
Having said that, given that both of them are the only two (that I am aware of) with multiple unknown fates, it's my opinion that it's fairly likely that both are alive somewhere (assuming you choose Kenny's unknowns, Christa's only differ slightly and are both still unknown)
I can safely say that to this day, Season 2 is one of the most tragic games I've played.
Not so much for the game that we ended up with, but rather, for all this game could have been.
400 Days and the early days of Season 2 create an image of what could have been a sequel that stood side by side with it's predecessor.
But instead, Season 2 felt like a dark warning to the path Telltale would take with their games moving foward, and what let to their downfall in the first place.
There are plenty of questions I have about Season 2 to this day, going from mino moments that seemed to be setting up for something big or the fate of characters like the 400 Days cast.
Sadly, even after all these years we might never get the full picture of what Season 2 could have been.
But even then, I'm thankful that you're one of those people that are willing to answer that question for all the fans that were left in the dark for all these years.
Maybe one day we'll know the full story, and I'm willing to wait for that day.
I’d have to go with The Last of Us 2 for this one; both for what we had to experience and what we lost by the end of it and because of what we the fans believed the game would be about vs. what we actually got 🏌️♀️
I think the game we ended up with is sadder then season 1
i feel like Sarah was such a wasted character and i wish teaching her to grow up after carlos dies would've been the best.. they just wanted to kill off Sarah and it sucks
she definitely should’ve survived with clem and aj
This is pretty off topic but I wish duck grew up to help clementine
I feel like it's fine on just one playthrough but when you replay and realise it just wasn't considered, that's what's frustrating.
I get that a key theme is that humans make mistakes and can understand how despite everything Sarah just let slip. But to make it hardwired in game is what was so disappointing.
@@laylikeschips5153me too dude :( I miss duck
I think the point of her character was that she wasn't ever going to survive just like Jane's sister. They weren't raised right and couldn't handle it mentally. Sarah's the antithesis of Clem and Carlos the antithesis of Lee
Christa
Mike
Nick
Luke
Sarita
All those characters were so robbed this season it hurts.
and rebecca
multigames logoless Mike & Christa Especially
And sarah!! She could’ve had such a good character development with clem teaching her how to survive but they just wanted her killed off :(
@@There6ofme true
Nick's character was handled so damn poorly and it depresses me.
I think they created Jane to replace Christa, everything that happened between her and Clementine was supposed to be between Christa and Clem, I just don't understand why replace and give such an inconclusive ending to an important character like Christa.
has there been any interviews with the voice actress of christa? maybe she was busy or didn’t want to continue ?
@@flacobrian3754 I’m thinking the same thing. I think it was just what the storyline demanded since voice acting is kinda their job but still
@@flacobrian3754 She definitely wasn't too busy to continue voicing Christa, judging by her filmography. Not wanting to continue begs the question of why.
And I think Christa and Kenny arguing is much better narratively than this stranger Jane. Christa lost her baby and doesn't want to let another one die and you know Kenny's reasoning, both care for AJ's safety but are at odds and it makes it harder to choose what to do. Shoot Kenny and save Christa? Let Christa die? Kenny is Lee's best friend a father figure like lee. But Christa is like a mother to you. What about AJ? Like come on!!
@@dragonblast417It also would have been an easy tie in to S1, something Telltale loves to do in future seasons anyway (how many times is Lee mentioned by name even in seasons like ANF?)
I genuinely believe Christa had the potential to become one of the most iconic characters, even paring to Kenny on some level. Had they utilised Kenny and Christa I believe what they showed was just scratching the surface of what could’ve been. Flashbacks should’ve definitely happened with Christa, to this day I’m disappointed at how they handled her.
I still kinda wish that mike was the guy who stole from christa because it would just add more depth to his character
If mike stole from Christa, and then they had to work around it because Kenny was part of mikes group and Christa and Kenny both had to stay with clem while looking after their respective groups, that dynamic sounds really interesting, like the group was barely hanging on because of tension because there was trouble between them.
i like mike's role as the mediator and only constantly calm and sympathetic one in the group. but it was so underutilised, the only major interesting thing he did was when he was the only one who showed concern for arvo.
Might've justified the option to kill Mike that got patched out.
As much as I really enjoyed season 2, the issue I found with it is the fact that there are lots of different bits and pieces that didn't quite make sense. For example, the 400 days characters being thrown in without there being much point to them (apart from Bonnie who ended up being a bad character anyway), the existence of Arvo which made so much more sense if it was originally meant to be Eddie, and the Kenny v Luke which ended up being switched to Kenny v Jane. It made the ending really easy for me to choose as I never liked Jane's character as I did Kenny or Luke. It all felt a bit like the first episode was the introduction to the group, then the rest of the episodes was killing them off one by one. For example, I never felt 'sad' about the deaths of Carlos, Alvin, Sarah, Sarita and so on. The deaths weren't as impactful.
Well said
Kenny v Luke would’ve been beautiful
I kinda felt bad for Alvin as i saved him in ep 2 so seeing him in ep 3 was sad he was also Ajs father
I felt extremely sad about Sarah’s death but the rest were meh
@@oddlyodds8247 Alvins Matthews and Walters deaths were all kinda bs wait what did you think about Lukes death
I cant believe they just discarded the OG script, im so dissapointed, i wanna play THAT GAME! Not the one we already got. Wasted potential
That's what everybody says after they see beta content. At first they love the game but then they proceed to hate on it after.
@@dumb.minnesotan.moron.2005 I don't think anyone here hates Season 2. To the contrary, I see people still saying they like the game. But parts of the game are a mess, even without knowing about the cut content. Episodes 4 and 5 already weren't recieved that well, especially 4, for example
Season 2 is a bit of a mess, not as much as A New Frontier but still not great. Which is sad because I know it could've been BETTER than Season 1 judging from these ideas, and Season 1 is the most consistent and best in the series in my opinion
The game what we are playing is a lie it wasn’t the truth
Ofc telltale thought they were better, idk, I might make a OG version fan game
@@Xxkxkdkkskxxkhave u made it yet?
Yeah S2 always had that strange air of disjointedness to it after the first episode, the arcs felt like it was going off into weird directions or outright stopping like you mentioned characters just dropping off from the rest of the season. A more focused story would've been great because as weird as the game was it has some good character moments that I enjoyed.
As great as having Christa, Kenny and Sarita would've been. I can't fathom the idea of not having AJ in the series. Because I really grew to love the kid and how his bond with the other other characters.
Would have loved to see Christa in the mentor role for Clem in S2, even though I can't imagine the rest of the series and Clementine's character development without AJ D:
End of an era, after nearly 3 years. A shame it had to end like this, but what can you do? Glad we at least got one. Looking forward to whatever you have in store, next.
Yeah, you just about summed up my feelings when you said how depressing it is to not know what would've happened with the story that we care so much about.
"Just think, there's a bunch of hard drives with all of this information stored in them"
As much as I hate to say but, there might not be. The people who actually created the old stories, models, music, etc all left their work behind when they left the company, and their work was left with people who didn't care for it. I have actually seen this happen before with another game that I love. It came out in 2004 and to this day, people still speculate about its huge amount of cut content, and the worst part is that an ex developer of that game confirmed that the hard drives were all wiped after release, meaning all of the cut content is gone. It is completely lost to history, and nothing but uncertainty is left.
It really hurts to think about, but with old Telltale gone, I think The Walking Dead Season 2's cut content is also lost to history. We will most likely never know the truth and that's always gonna annoy me and depress me.
What's worse, that they do exist and we'll never see them - or that they did and were wiped like you said? Out of curiosity, what game is it you're talking about?
I feel like the first option is the most irritating while the second is the most depressing. And the game I was talking about is called Crash Twinsanity, a game notorious for being glitchy and for having about 60% of the game cut out. 16 years later and people still haven't forgotten. It's games like these that make me wish we lived in a perfect universe with no rushed releases, no corrupt CEOs, just talented people creating video games because of passion, not for some dream of becoming the Netflix of gaming where you can rush out new games constantly with 0 effort and still expect huge profits.
@@fakeninja4447 Crash Twinsanity holds a special place in my heart. And I've heard a bit about what could've been and it all sounded really good
I can safely say that literally every asset still exists. They repurpose/reuse a LOT of stuff for other games, and literally everything made is part of an "archive/library".
@@InColdBloodTTG Hi!! What was the soundtrack you used in the beginning of your video? 😁
nearly a decade later and this game and its characters are still present in my mind. hearing that stuff about christa and sarita just breaks my heart. knowing now that all these characters that i cared about were originally going to be so much bigger, but had it all stolen from them thru re-writes. almost 8 years later, that still really hurts.
one thing that always MAJORYLY annoyed me is that, why replace one pregnant lady which we know has trouble getting along with people, with another pregnant lady that cant decide on a personality. I would have felt WAYYY more attached to omid jr then aj. I kind of thought that's what they were going to do as one of the last things omid and christa talked about was naming their kid Omid jr... and then go and gives us Alvin jr which i had trouble being attached to since I didn't really gel with Alvin and Rebecca that much.
I've never thought about that deeply before but you are totally right! why leave christa to be cut off from the series with a baby who was literally discussed to be a junior, only to replace it with another pregnant lady who also loses her partner and has a baby which the player never gets time to bond with?
@@rlsx yeah and at least if junior asked about his parents we could be like
They were brave people who took me in when I was alone
And hey sad cause guilt for omid
Instead of ... ya know
Well your dad got killed but might not have been your dad so he either killed your dad or got murdered
Your mam was very mean
And they both locked me in a shed to die ! 🤗
@@glitchglue3900 yes, the motivation is there for the player to look after junior. clem could feel guilty for omids death and wants to do better by junior. she could tell them about christa and omid helping lee, omid getting his leg hurt by lee etc, and it could just be nostalgic for the player also.
@@rlsx
Yup but no we get little boy who literally could still be the same model since both couples were black, and like they wouldnt have even been different ages either and ajs personallity is the same as all 4 adults . goofy and serious and clem molds the rest
I’m late but holy shit this makes waaaay more sense than what they went with. Alvin and Rebecca just aren’t as engaging a couple as Omid and Christa.
Episode 1: All That Remains Everything was supposed to be same, only some Minor changes were there Winston was supposed to fall to his death while fighting Clementine. One of the Scavengers named Ralph was supposed to Be originally Mike(He also played a key role to the the game which I'll get back to later on) Clem would've Kept Sam the dog for quite a while and Pete would've been able to die this episode no matter what.
Episode 2: Don't look back This went through several redesigns. Kenny was intended to be Carver and then Troy (as we see him in the next time on cutscene) but it turned out to be Carver. Anyways back to the topic. Kenny would've showed up at the Cabin and burned it down and Clementine's group would run until eventually the 400 days characters would be with Kenny. Alvin would've shot Wyatt if Tavia convinced him to join. Sarita and Walter were not yet implemented.
Episode 3: In Cold Blood Clem's group would've been brought to Howe's Hardware and meet Mike. I have no idea if Jane was supposed to be implemented in the episode or not Clementine would've had Christa flashbacks and she was Distrustful of Mike as he was the cause Christa went missing. Mike was supposed to lose his ear as Victor(the guy in ep1 who u decide to give water or not) was attempting to shoot Christa in but accidentally shot Mike's ear. The talkies were meant to be used by Rebecca to contact Luke. Rebecca was supposed to have AJ this episode and that was supposed to be a lot darker as she was not gonna survive the pregnancy and was going to die of blood loss immediately. Group would've escape howe's the same way with Carlos dying. Nick would've shot Becca (Shel's sister) Shel would've become a walker and Tavia would've fallen off the roof. Mike would've been shot or Spared. Either way this was his last appearance.
Episode 4: Amid the Ruins It was supposed to be a darker compared to the one we have right now. The survivors from Howe's would've been Nick, Sarah, Luke AJ and Clem. Vince and Bonnie would've never appeared Eddie would've appeared in this episode but troy would've killed him. And Kenny wouldve killed Nick. Sarah would've run off to the snow.
Episode 5: Better to Sleep With just Clementine, Luke and AJ left against Kenny and Troy, They would've wandered around the snow storm and get Separated. Clementine was supposed to fight Troy as he was going to Molest Clementine which in my opinion is not 100% true. But they were going to fight. Clementine would've shot Troy and made it to the rest stop. There she would find Luke with AJ and Kenny trying to Kill Luke after realising he was bit. Both of them would get into a fight and Luke would kill Kenny and Clementine would shoot Luke as he was bit and going to turn. Clementine could've made a decision to Either Leave AJ or Take him with her which in my opinion was really dark. Either way Clementine would've set off alone.
That is the dark story that was scraped, not the actual OG story from the original devs.
@@aidenstillanass well this was the story that people probably would have also liked
I don't know why but I really want to play this version of the game !
@@renaxo69 so do i, i'm so desperate i hope season 2 onwards gets a remake
No offence, but there's not a lot of supporting evidence to back up your claims here. I understand that the game was heavily altered, and I know that a couple of these concepts are in fact true, but most of them are merely speculation. I've seen a few of these concepts discussed before, but there's no real proof behind them ever truly being planned.
Season two was a very strange game for me. I was so hyped at the time to be playing it after season 1. And I honestly absolutely loved it at the time. And I still do cherish the memories of playing it.
But now, knowing what was going on at the time within telltale. Knowing what season 2 leads to (season 3), it all just taints the experience for me when replaying.
Overall I did like what we got but I do recognise a lot more could’ve been done with the season. And it is kinda sad
I feel the same way. I will still never forget the community, fanart, theories and discussion during those days but seeing how the sausage gets made has definitely made me view the series in a different way.
Yeah, I think for me I feel fulfilled mostly by the first three episodes, especially episode 3. But for episode 4 and 5 (even though they’re my favourite episodes) I feel like they could have been so much more if they just reverted to some of the aspects the previous scripts had, especially Kenny vs Luke instead of Kenny vs Jane. I also think this game would stand out more if they kept some of the darker parts in, the only ones I don’t think they should have kept is the ending of clementine and AJ dying, and clementine getting r worded by Troy. They’re just far to morbid and disturbing
I think the group would’ve been more engaging if Jane as a character was scrapped and replaced by Christa. Meeting her again in Wellington after loosing her in the beginning could have made for an emotional moment. I wouldn’t want to see Kenny and Christa have a similar fight to Jane and Kenny, but the decision would’ve been harder this way.
Yeah, although that wouldn't be the last time they tried bringing back Christa, in the Final Season Lilly's role was instead Christa, which already Lilly was supposed to reappear back in S1 Ep5 and never did, but reappeared in TFS)
I would have LOVED if Christa was included to the story, building a close relationship with Clem and interacting with Kenny. In fact it would have been great if at the end of S2 the surviving group members were Christa, Kenny, Clementine, Pete, Alvin, Walter, Mike and maybe even Sarah to watch her become stronger and more capable. It was disappointing for me that the Characters in S2 had not much depth or development (except for 2 or 3 characters maybe) and didn't were important to the story. Kenny definitely saved this season for me, also because i cried my eyes at the wellington scene. So he is the only reason, why S1 and S2 are on the same level for me, despite all the many flaws S2 had.
@brian pagsibigan agreed. Walter and mike weren’t strong characters
Season 2 is perhaps my favourite season of the Walking Dead due to how depressing and dark it is, and it's really interesting how different the original script was. Thank you so much for all these videos over the years, I'm really excited to see what you make next!
Telltale... it's a love/hate relationship....
When I subscribed to your channel I was sure I wouldn't regret it.
I think that the story focusing on Christa would be cool, there aren't really many narratives in gaming about motherhood. There's plenty about fathers, but mothers aren't really that common, especially as main protagonists AND with a complicated relationship with their child to boot (like how you imply that Christa would feel some kind of anger towards Clem for getting Omid killed and still reeling from losing her own biological child). I think that this kind of complex quasi-mother-daughter relationship would be very unique, with Clem and Christa slowly fixing their bond as the game progresses (or not, depending on how the player plays).
Sarita being more important and bonding with Clem and Christa over Kenny would be really cool too, again, there aren't many cool, kinda badass widows in video games (but there's plenty of widowers). A game spearheaded by three badass women of color would certainly be something memorable and different. I like the season two we've got, with the narrative focusing on being a young teen forced to mature too fast, but it's fun to explore other options we could've gotten.
The OG Script for Episode 1 is pretty damn great seemingly, except the dog bite which I feel is a bit silly still regarding how Carlos is a doctor and can't tell that it isn't a human bite, but maybe the original group never had a doctor at all. The final choice also seemed, as you put it, pretty obvious in terms of what most people would choose so there either had to be more nuance to it than we realised or it would have gotten more nuance as they wrote more and planned out it ahead.
I honestly wish we got something of a mix between the OG and the Dark Script though. I'd want to have Christa around and all of that, but in their darkest moments before they found Wellington and a light at the end of the tunnel, the group is tearing apart at the seems and having them split up, maybe as a result of the tiger or whatever they ended up doing, Kenny and Luke duke it out and Clem is forced into this horrible decision. Although, that's just my opinion and I am a lover of dark and gritty stories.
Most mysterious season’ s beta content, good vid InColdBlood
As a huge Christa stan, I’m so disappointed that she wasn’t a bigger part of the story. Personally, I would have much preferred the first script over what we have now, even if that means that A New Disaster and The Final Season as we know them wouldn’t exist. It would have been incredibly satisfying to watch Christa and Clem’s relationship develop after what happened to Lee, Omid, and Christa’s baby. And on top of that, Kenny’s gross character assassination wouldn’t have happened in episode 5. Killing him off (and allowing Clem to bond with Sarita over his death) would have been much better, in my opinion. I like to think that he would have died as the well intending, but rash family man we knew him in Season 1. Not batshit crazy and aggressive like Telltale wanted him to be.
Thank you for giving us this insight into what the first draft of the story would have looked like. For so long, I almost felt like I was grieving Christa because of how shittily that loose tie was handled. But now I feel like I have closure, lol.
A New Disaster? Season 2 was a disaster.
@Ghost Plasma Season 2 was an earthquake, and A New Frontier was the giant tsunami that wreaked havoc afterwards.
Yeah the intent was to definitely bring closure to the Christa thing. I think it's because of that old script that it was kind of cursed grounds that nobody wanted to bring up Christa again which is pretty depressing but at least now people know.
@@lorikeet6782 nah. Season 3 had a lot of things done right. Season 2 not so much.
@Ghost Plasma 🤔
I remember the first time I played S2 on January 2015
Yes, I've waited the entire season to launch to play it all at once. I finished it all in 2-3 days because I was INSANELY invested in it. I watched the TV series, played the first game and read some issues of the comics, but when I played S2 something inside me just transformed, I felt myself changing. I cannot describe it. Whenever I think of TWD as a whole, I think of Clementine...on the snow...having to choose between killing Kenny or looking away (which I still think was the hardest f*ing choice I've ever made in a game). It's funny, because though I KNOW S1 is better, I can't help myself but LIKING S2 more, even though the really cool cut ideas. It created mystery, it raised a new world inside this apocalyptic era of TWD, brutal community, people dying and betraying you around every corner.
Even though the really nice features and content you've shown us here (I've been a fan for quite some time now great vids btw) the only thing I really miss on S2 is Christa's absense (also your theory on Ed replacing Arvo, it would've been MAZING if that's what we've really got). I had hopes of Christa coming back on another season, but it didn't happen, so I put the guilt of it on this season instead on ANF and TFS. Maybe she could've shown up at Wellington? IDK.
I absolutely love S2 despite it's mistakes and I wouldn't change it structurally as these early versions of the story would.
Thanks for reading.
Aye, S2 felt very odd as it went on. It wasn't as character focused but it was still interesting seeing how they handled Kenny's increasing deteriation. I think they kinda pushed a little too far with him imo and other characters didn't really get the love the could have, but yea it seemed p rushed and mangled. Also damn I forgot about all the shit you mentioned at the end they left out. Crazy. Anyway lovely video my guy x hope you're staying safe
Personally, I'm satisfied with what we got as the end story for the second season. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that I like the second one more than the first one because I really dig the atmosphere the second season provided. The first season was a little on the nose about how the World has gone to shit and the people are cannibals and kidnappers and stuff? But the second season shows realistic people trying to survive and going crazy seeing their loved ones die in their arms. You can argue with me if you want.
But still, I enjoyed this video so much and I love your accent. I'm a new subscriber and honestly, I was surprised to see you upload on the day I subscribed lel. Also surprised that there are no links in the description, weird.
Reeeeeeeeeeeee jk
@@MissChibiGodd Bruh
The only thing that left me satisfied with season 2 was the Wellington endings, those endings pretty much saved the season for me, but everything between episode 1 and the very endings of episode 5 I was never satisfied with because of how rushed it all was.
I think it's important to have a healthy balance of realism/hope though. I think that's why I like the Wellington ending the best, you can't have a game that's just pure misery since it's not all that engaging and it's easy to do. I think that's why I like S1, there were some pretty dark moments, hell, the ending is one big one - but it was scattered with many good points with the hope that things will get better.
Ep4 was still god awful though, such a shame because the slide looked so interesting
I'd have loved to see this take. What we got with the back end of S2 and S3 was a mistake caused by TTG executive shenanigans, especially when they kept agreeing to unprofitable licensed games when they were stretched as is.
I still appreciate the good elements of S2 and even a few moments in S3 (the period scene was a nice humanising moment that reminded us Clem was still growing up) but it breaks my heart knowing how things ended. How S4 had so much scope cut because of TTG falling through and the devs missed out on a chance to truly redeem the series just as they wanted.
ICB, was the rumored Troy molester / Kenny antagonist plot part of this dark script then? I'm kinds glad it was cut if we were going to get low quality writing / content here.
Very organized and well projected video. Always satisfied with your level of care and thought into each and every one of your videos. I’m glad we still have folk like you in this community! Can’t wait for the next vid! -Ian
Thanks Ian!
Your channel is a goldmine. You done some really nice work out here by putting this online, back in the day I loved the TellTale Walking Dead and would had been all over this stuff, although Im only finding out about this now 4 years later, its still very interesting. Live a blessed life friend.
The creators of telltale left a company for them to make a better company to have freewill to make great games but in the end they didn't even give their own devs the freewill
I thought I wouldn't learn anything new for this series, but here you are.
Thanks for making these videos, it means a lot to people like me who love stuff like this
AAGh My favourite season this is gonna be so interesting I can't wait to watch
Hello from Discord, my friend))) I'm Javier Garcia there
Cutupuss sameee i loved that season weird to think that things could have been so different x
Personally, I enjoyed the feeling of having a larger group gradually getting whittled down to a very small group. It gave the feeling of the world rattling apart at the seams and nothing being certain, like being unable to stop the inevitable ending of everything.
I remember all of the crazy theories on Christa coming back, especially since the game did just that with Lily in the final season. People had even crazier theories for some of the characters that were clearly shown to die like Lee and Kenny. Good times.. Its also funny that you mentioned the great quality of Episode 1, I thought so too since I legit thought that Episode 1 was a preview of the whole season when the teaser/trailer came out, it just seemed so cinematic. Season 2 and 3 are kinda weird for me, there was a lot to like about them.. but also not much. The original script and having Clem be the focus of season 3 with the survivors would've made me love them much more.
After I found out about the Dark Story plotline(s) I think the one we got was still better. But here’s some doable changes that would’ve fixed the final version’s problems:
1. Make the title cards accurately portray events of the episode, and not mislead the player.
2. Keep the cut fishing scene since it was already completed, this would’ve added more variety of activity and possibly more depth into Alvin’s character.
3. Keep Mike as one of the scavengers like originally planned, so it adds more tension/depth when we see him later. Also have Roman as one of the scavengers (see below).
4. If we give water to Victor, he could at least explain what happened (i.e. Christa got away, Carver and company killed them because Bonnie would’ve remembered Roman).
5. If we teach Sarah to defend herself, make her determinately able to survive to e5-but only if we save her from the trailer park in e4.
6. If we choose to admit stealing the walkie-talkie to Carver, he beats Clem (not as severely) instead of Kenny, thus saving Kenny’s eye.
7. Depending on wether or not we chop off Sarita’s arm, at least make the choice have Kenny treat us better.
8. Cut all references to the town across the river from Parker’s Run for continuity’s sake.
9. Keep Eddie instead of Arvo, and replace the Russians with the 400 Days determinants/Carver’s remaining crew. (The choice to rob him or not would also affect the interaction, and the way remaining characters view you even if it’s just a little bit.)
10. At the end of e4, make the choice of wether or not we shoot Rebecca determine the fate of Bonnie or Mike in the fight with the 400 Days crew.
11. If Nick survives past e2, give him more interaction/development, and make him (determinately) die in the frozen pond instead of Luke. If not, have Jane in the frozen pond situation instead.
12. With either Jane or Nick determinately at the frozen pond, make the choice matter to cover them or save them. (This would allow them to survive or die, If they do survive they would leave with Eddie and Bonnie/Mike.)
13. Replace the Kenny vs. Jane fight with Kenny vs. Luke.
14. Have the gatekeeper at Wellington confirm that Christa is there! Imagine what that interaction would be like, especially if Christa saw Clementine AND Kenny after thinking he was dead. This would make the final choice more interesting.
Hi, sorry I’m responding 2 years later. I like a lot of these points except No.9. The 400 days characters are all determinant so what would happen if you chose to not bring them over? Instead have someone from Carvers group mention fighting other groups. Atleast that would explain Romans corpse and the bandits deaths and it could tie into the Russians (except get rid of Arvo, add back Eddie, and you can keep Natasha I guess)
No.10 is interesting because throughout all that gunfire nobody seemed to get hit except Arvo’s sister. Instead of Bonnie or Mike, make it one Eddie or someone else from 400 days that dies.
There’s more to be said but I’m too lazy right now but again these sound great.
Yeah, Kenny should've not ended up villain as he was portrayed in the Dark story. BUT he also should've not ended up a psychopath like in final version.
@@lordjftw6991 Thanks! That's a good point about the gunfight w/the Russians. I figured since 4/5 400 Days characters are determinant, anyone that Tavia didn't recruit would just be replaced by a random member of Carver's camp. But I like your idea about tying it back to the group of bandits that ambushed Christa, and Romans corpse. That would make it even more interesting.
I'm just one dude and I came up with all this in like 2 hours...I'm not even a writer so it makes me wonder why Telltale's team couldn't figure out similar solutions to at least some of these plot holes. I understand studios have tight schedules and budgets, but the final version almost plays like an unfinished demo, or an interactive movie than a game.
@@h0nza_ much agreed. It was obvious he had some serious PTSD, but Telltale showed their bias when Kenny says "You made the right choice." if you shoot him.
@@farawayoutpost8342 For someone who made all that in 2 hours that’s pretty good!! I agree with what you said about season 2, there’s so many rewrites and revisions that it makes it so weird. Now that I’m back to this comment lemme give my full opinions on your changes.
1. AGREED! Give Eddie his Justice he deserves.
2. Agreed! There was no reason to cut it, Season 2 already starts off hectic so having a nice moment is sweet.
3. This annoys me so much because they clearly had something like this in mind. You know how originally when the last episode aired Mike had a cut death? If you don’t know it’s where Bonnie, Arvo and him decide to leave, and Clem shoots him. They could’ve tied it into Christa going missing and if you decide to shoot Mike then it makes sense as to why Arvo shoots you. It’s ridiculous that Arvo treats Clem like shit regardless if you’re nice to him or not.
4. Agreed such a missed detail (my theory is that Christa’s VA had issues with the telltale team or something because there’s no reason to basically cut her out and never to be seen again).
5. YES!! Everyone pretty sure will agree to that. But where would she die? Maybe have her drown trying to protect someone? Have her shoot some walkers on the ice?
6. Not really a fan of that. I feel like Carver would maybe hit Clem but still beat up Kenny.
7. I want to agree with this so bad but it’s Kenny we’re talking about😭. He’s gonna be angry no matter what, butttt it would be nice to see if Kenny would treat us a bit better.
8. Yea this was such a dumb thing to add because it’s more closely related to the og dark ending. It should just be cut.
9. Already talked about that
10. Already talked about that
11. I like this
12. I also like this but I personally don’t see Jane leaving with that group (especially with Arvo and the meds). Can I see Nick leaving with them? Well if you say that for 13 it should be replaced with Luke and Kenny, I don’t see Nick leaving Like behind.
13. Agreed 10000000%
14. And yes as a Christa lover yess. Just imagine choosing between Kenny and Christa (I’d choose Christa) and she finds out Clem has a baby boy. I feel like it would be really interesting and full of drama.
I say the time we living in now is more on the fallout 4 side.
I’m happy to see im not the only one who still loves this game lol
I wish they could somehow add back some of the old script back but also keep some of the good stuff from the final
Please please please keep making these videos, especially on the other scripts of season 2! I absolutely love them and I honestly don’t think I’d know anything about this interesting cut content if it weren’t for your awesome videos, so thank you.
it's be cooler if someone made the game with the darker and OG script to see how different the games are
I’m trying to learn programming and making games and if I do I will 💯 make this
What's the name of the background song at 13:51 its soo calming and relaxing ^-^
And btw love your videos always excited when I get the notification of a new video from you ^-^
Every song in this video is from the Silent Hill 2 OST, here's the specific song you're looking for th-cam.com/video/oKyRCjyP3Mk/w-d-xo.html
@@InColdBloodTTG thanks soo much glad to know your always able to give support back to your community when needed anyway can't wait for your next video ^-^
I feel like instead of bringing back Lilly for season 4, they should had brought back Christa. Make it personal but having Chirsta say clem the reason Omid died, killed her baby (if they wanted to take the route) and is the blame for Lee's death. I feel like that would have made it more emotional. After being left alone after the start of season 2 Christa became hardened and always held a grudge with Clem due to Omid death
I really wish they could remake seasons two and three, they could technically do it since they left both ending so ambiguous.
Havent watched yes but omggg ive always wanted you to cover the orginal story this is gonna be awesomeee
The original stories of this game are so interesting. Always come back to binge the videos on the cut content every once in a while.
Honestly for me, Season 2 was the biggest mixed bag. I LOVED the first 3 episodes of the season but to me I think episodes 4 and 5 kind of dropped the ball. I like the ending to episode 5 but there was just so much wasted potential for it. Like that town that we saw, what the fuck happened to it? They teased us with it in ep. 4 and nothing came of it. It sucks that no matter what you choose when it comes to Arvo he always fucking shows up no matter what. When i first played it i was like “What the fuck man? I didn’t even steal from you!” 😭 But yeah I loved Season 2 don’t get me wrong and I wished they would’ve kept Vanaman’s and Rodkin’s vision because they were great in Season 1, but shit happens and I totally understand why they left Telltale considering how fucking horrendous the working conditions were, but hey man I’m glad you came through with these videos!!! You’re content is great and I can’t wait to see what you have planned in the future! (Maybe some Wolf Among Us? or Tales From the Borderlands? 🧐)
Great video as always, and I agree that your track record with your channel is sufficient evidence for me to believe that your source for all this is legitimate. This video answers a lot of questions regarding Season 2 I've always had, but there's one potential story thread that still bothers me. I remember Troy's voice actor making a comment about Troy being a much worse character, so much so that he thought he deserved to die. He said there were cut scenes from Episode 3 that made him much worse than he was, and some of the ways he interacts with Clementine and Sarah seem to support this.
It seems to me Troy was supposed to be a predator or something of that sort. Perhaps he was just more physically abusive than already shown but I can't see why a few more scenes of him hitting Clem, Sarah, or anyone else would make his character that much worse to the point where the voice actor thinks they deserve to die. Well, regardless of what those scenes were, is there any evidence of them floating around?
It sounds like if there were they would be part of the "Bruner/Dark Story Script" and if there were deleted scenes like he says there would've been remnants in the files. Of course, all this stems from a screenshot of a TH-cam comment that was made by the voice actor, so perhaps it's all hogwash. The screenshot in question can be found on Troy's page on TWD wikipedia, down in the trivia section first reference link.
Well I can't discredit what Owen said since there isn't neccesarily anything contradictory in the game files but I don't get the impression he was a major character, only that he was intending on being a bit more creepy (like when we asks Sarah if 'everything came out all right' after she pees). The character of Troy is 100% from the bruner/dark story because the Troy model was meant for Carver.
You definitely have something there with the Troy thing. If Troy was actually supposed to be pretty much a predatory rapist, MAYBE that’s why Jane shoots him in the dick when she kills him??🤔
I'm referencing this from a comment I read on another video, but I think he was made as a rapist who would do something to Sarah or Clem. Don't know for sure but you can definitely feel that vibe from him
Thanks for making TWD videos in 2020.
I like how Season 2 turned out honestly, some of the ideas should have been kept but ultimately alot of what was kept I'm glad was kept. Time constraints can be a bitch so I'm glad that imo the story still turned put great and emotionally intriguing.
bro after i finished season 4 a week i didn't know where i was. The final was very strong. I didn't want to play any other game. The only game I've cried at ... a few times
As usual an amazing video bro, keep it up we appreciate the effort you put into this ,can’t wait for what’s next 🙏🙏
TWDG Season 2 and Story shouldn't even be in the same sentence considering how many changes there were to the narrative.
All the potential in the writers at telltale, and so little to show for it.
I can't think of another game which suffered so badly from cuts and re-writes.
I've been told crash twinsanity got a lot cut, but I played the shit out of it as a kid so I think its still great.
Honestly kind of glad they didn't go with that plot. Kenny's ending at Wellington makes Season 2 all worth it.
Everything was perfect to me. But still, I do feel like killing Kenny is the canonical ending, being with Jane and finding AJ still alive. So filled with hatred for the girl that made you kill your second father figure, you walk off into the snow alone and find Wellington alone. Accepting being alone unlike the first chapter when Clem was desperate to be with people.
Not everything was done well but the ending fight was incredible and it solidified Kenny as one of my fave gaming characters
Would love more theories on this channel. Your content is so amazing.
Loved the Silent Hill music in the video :)
Do you know what's the name of at the beginning of the video ?
This is what I love about cut content finding out what the original idea is but a lot of the time it’s depressing to see what could of been from what was cut, anyway what will you do now since there’s basically nothing left to be found on twd?
I want to do a video or two on The Wolf Among Us. After that I'm not sure.
InColdBlood I see , but have you ever thought about other games not from telltale that interest you?
@@rickfruitygrimes I don't think I could do them justice like other people have. The only other one or two I'd consider are from some of my other favourite games like Dead Rising (Stip0 has a great channel showcasing DR cut/beta stuff), Modern Warfare 2 which not too long ago was pretty barebones until one or two people got a devkit that was an early build of the game and showed off a bunch of cool stuff that I can't, and Dark Souls which has pretty much been dissected completely by many people. The only reason I'd consider doing it is if there's nobody else doing it and if it's a game that I really care about.
@@InColdBloodTTG dang u watch stip0 too 😂
In season 1 if you save ben
He does talk unlike nick if he lives
Also choices don't really matter in telltale games
Tales From the Borderlands comes close to having your choices matter, but it’s just not in a huge way. Their Game of Thrones game also flirts with the idea of mattering choices especially in the earlier episodes, but that one has the problem of bloating itself with choices and getting the same bad guys win ending no matter what.
@@Lolpy. batman season 2 has different versions of episode 5 depending on what you pick in ep 4 too
Talking about the intro of the video
I do 100% trust your information when it comes to talking about telltale games, as your track record has shown how much effort you do to get actual information out.
I wanna play that season two, it sounds way more fun and it sounds like it doesn’t have Gabe’s real biological mother Jane in it
Always looking forward to your content 🤟🏻
Im loving these videos. The best thing about season 3 are the videos you made a while back. Amazing work :)
I would‘ve loved a story line where Christa is still an important character. All this is so depressing.
How dark is skybound they should watch themselves die in a Walking Dead game
I don't know why Skybound/Telltale can't just go back and add DLC that unlocks new alternate storylines like Lee or other characters like Ben/Larry/Lilly/Katjaa/Duck surviving past S1. There's probably a lot of money in that. Even now people are buying the shit out of the definitive edition. They could just add decisions during all the timeskips in S1 that affects things like the Kenny/Larry meatlocker scene because Kenny gets a chance to know Larry or Lilly better, or where you catch Ben when he makes the deal and save Katjaa/Duck.
For real man I loveeeee ur videos , they are so interesting reliable and fun too watch . I love these games , and this channel keeps everything fresh and new . So thanks for making these videos 💜🥳🦄💜
if skybound entertainment ever makes the walking dead: game 2. then i hope they reuse some of the scrap/cut/unused content that didn't made in the final version of all seasons.
edit: please make the walking dead: game 2 skybound.
You really did change my views on the telltale games and now im kinda sad what could have been i always thought something was off but i never could put my finger on it im glad to have found this channel and i hope one day this all gets leaked of the actually story we should have got and maybe a company or someone redevelops the seasons again and makes some better seasons i doubt it will ever happen but i would love to see a story where clementines arc just doesnt turn out to be lees arc would have also loved to see if we would have more episodes than 5 or 4 if telltale actually put in more story and time into these games imagine every season after 1 having atleast 8 or 6 episodes all more than two hours long
After learning about better to sleep and learning about the dark script and especially after hearing the 3rd song you use in this video I’ve been envisioning a season 2 of mine that follows the possibility that season 2 would be the last season,for me the 3rd song you plays helps paint this picture and I know it’s just in my mind but i just love to think about a story where clementine is watching people die faster left and right and the groups faces in dread haunt this image but anyway the kenny vs luke possibility would have been much more heavier since you know Kenny bc he’s your old caretaker but he’s evil and luke is all trustworthy but he doesn’t hodl the sentimental feeling with Kenny since you’ve met him recently and I’m not really sure how that would work into the ending but I can’t say enough about how the series would’ve ended so good with that bone chilling period that you can only acknowledge, especially since season 3 was nothing noteworthy and season 4 was alright but to me the first 2 season are really where you hold feeling for clementine Yk? Season 3 almsot feels like they use clementine as a selling point but the first 2 i actually see her face these harsh situations man I can’t explain this shit
I feel you dude, i really do
mannnn i wish the bruner script was added. i would’ve loved to see a focus on the human issues clem would’ve faced. carver is the only real human threat that the group faces. whereas in the first season, there’s a large multitude of human threats. the bandits, st. john’s, vernon’s group, and the stranger at the end. u can see what the apocalypse has done to people, the desperation to hold on to ANYTHING from the previous world.
Do more videos like this man! I want to see as much as there is to leaked and unused content from all of these games. It's a shame some of the scenes were never used.
Personally I think Season 2 is the most interesting for cut content. And thanks to your channel we’ve learned so much, I can’t wait to get into this video! 👍
im glad people still make twdg videos
Was it always planned for the second season to take place two years after the first? Cause I think a lot of problems with the original script could be easily fixed had they just not done the timeskip.
The original ending with the class system, for example. You're right, choosing between the classes wouldn't be so hard because by default, you would want to stay with the people you knew, Christa and Sarita. But once you take out the timeskip, start the season with Christa 8-9 months in (I think it was a good idea to have some sort of timeskip, but two years? That's ridiculous.), and have her give birth during the season, you now have a new factor thrown in there.
The original game had the right idea to introduce AJ, but I always thought it would make much more sense for AJ to be Christa and Omid's kid. For starters, we would actually have some attachment to him, because we knew Christa and Omid. We saw the struggles they went through in the first season, and we grew to like them and support them as Clem's caretakers after the finale. It would also add some sort of tension to your final decision. Do you stay with Christa and Sarita, knowing that the baby won't have automatic protection, or do you go to the higher class, knowing that you'll be separating the baby from his mom, and possibly never see her again?
It just...seems like the most logical thing to do. But for some reason, they didn't do that. We were being played with the idea of Christa and Omid having a larger role in the next season, nothing came of it. We were given tons of subtle hints at Christa being pregnant, and while it was true, nothing came of it. There were a lot of loose ends from Season 1, and for most of them, nothing ever came up of it.
I don't hate Season 2, but I truly do think we were robbed from a much better story, and it's a depressing thought knowing that we'll probably never get to see what that was.
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Side note, I know fanfiction is a bit of a touchy subject for this fandom, but there's this really good rewrite of Season 2 that's been out there for quite some time now called "Young And Young At Heart" that I think some people might be interested in. There are big differences in it compared to S2 canon (Kenny, Luke, and the 400 Days cast are nonexistant), but it essentially tells the same story, and I think it does Clementine, Christa, and many others justice. If you're open to reading a fan interpretation, I'd give it a try. You can find it on the big 3 fanfic sites (FNN, AO3, Wattpad).
I agree completely with the Christa pregnancy thing, if they were gonna end up with a pregnant lady giving birth to a baby that corn looks after it should’ve been Christa’s baby
There was always going to be a timeskip though I don't know the exact length of time. At least 9+ months because Christa was never going to have her own child. I don't get the impression a baby was ever going to be part of the story the same way it is in the final game. I do agree though, if the point was to have a child in later revisions then it only makes sense to have it be Christa's.
Also I think I recall taking a look at that specific fanfic you mention. I thought it was decent but I find it hard to enjoy because there are parts to S2 that I like and seeing them absent from it makes it feel much less of a rewrite and a lot more of an original take on the story, which is fine, but I quite like the intention S2 had at the start, forcing Clementine into a dark place only for her to be stronger for it yet still keep her humanity. If it had followed that level throughout the entirety of the season then I think I'd like it better than S1.
Great video, I wish the choices matter in this season, like with the 400 days characters and teaching Sarah the gun and all that, wish this season would of been much darker, your name and profile picture is dope as well, subbed 👌🏼
As someone that's just finished their nth play through of Season 1 with plans to replay Season 2, this video couldn't have dropped at a better time.
That part about Roman’s corpse always made me curious why he was there. I always assumed Carver’s men killed him and that group? Or maybe it was to save costs of making a new model? I’m probably wrong. I’ve seen this video quite a few times now.
I was already hooked when I heard Silent Hill throughout. Very fitting honestly :) And beautiful work.
The Dark Story sounds interesting I hope we find it so I can hear it.
Whoa, someone is still making videos for this legend :)
btw thanks for still keeping the game & community alive.
I can't believe they would just throw away Christa for no reason, she and Omid were the turning tide of S1, after many tragic things had happened. I was really hoping to see them at that S1 ending scene.
The fact you have the Silent Hill 2 soundtrack in the background makes the video great!
17:09 good points. I think removed or changed content that made it a bit unlogical with the decisions. Must be Kevin. He wanted all the praise and ruined the games and company
The silent hill 2 background music🤩 man, you’ve got some great taste
this guy is like the history channel but for the walking dead. Amazing content and really surprised you are not monetized!
Script 1 or 2 likely would have been really good choices
Alright. After rewatching this video I have an idea of how the finale and first episode of season 3 could have looked like. Christa,Clem,Sarita and Rebecca would have made it to the end. Clem woukd have this choice to join the higher or lower class. Then in season 3 we would learn Rebecca had her baby thus AJ being in the story. Then The New Frontier or whatever they would have been called would attack the community. Rebecca would always die in the first episode and depending on which caste you chose you would start off with Christa,AJ and Sarita or alone with AJ and try to make it to them. Becouse you weren't with the group from the start Sarita would die offscreen but if you were in the lower caste she survives and probably dies later on in the season. And there would be none Javier and his family. I doubt they'd come up with them in this timeline. And if they would they'd just be characters who join your group. Javier not playable.
Man, I really don't want your TWDG content to end. I'm sure I'm a drop in the bucket full of broken records saying it.
S2 had so much potential
Every season had potential
I love season 2 just the way it is, but I can definitely see a lot of lost potential in it. It would be cool if the entire series could be remastered some day, where there is more variability in how the storyline progresses and your choices have more impact. For example, Christa gets killed when you sneak away, but if you distract the bandits, she escapes and you eventually find her in episode 2. Basically what they did with Conrad they should have done with every character, where they can die early or survive well into the final episode or even beyond depending on your choices throughout the game. Another idea is that it was obvious that Sarah was going to die, but if you actually chose to get Jane to save her, she would have done so, and even though Sarah would be crippled, she would still be alive and the player/group would then have to deal with that outcome.