I wanted to comment about your reference to the "Lone Ranger" radio program having about 5 minutes of filler in each episode. That was planned. All the recordings we have are of the East Coast version of the broadcast. Performed in Detroit for Eastern Standard time and taken off the network feed in Chicago by RCA and cut to disks so a copy could be filed with the script in the copyright office. George W Trendle, the producer and owner of WXYZ Radio, did this to ensure protection of his rights. After the cast did the East Coast version (Live) they went to dinner and came back a couple hours later to do the live West Coast version. They performed the same the script with lines of dialogue crossed out. That is because the West Coast production followed a 5 minute newscast so the script had to be shortened. Fran Striker, the author, was aware of this and therefore wrote the programs so 5 minutes could be removed out of every broadcast without altering the story value. So now you know.
Wonderful commentary. I loved the film but I think everything you are saying is warranted. 1:01:47 it will definitely play better as a streaming show. Do you think this would have done better with a smaller release and then increase screens over a few weeks over a wide release?
Amazon had the 4k Blu-ray at $28 and change being released in August. Now it changed to $48 and change being released in September. :( You can get the streaming version July 16th.
I think the way to fix this is to combine together into a 12-hour cut random second unit footage from HORIZON, ROBIN HOOD: PRINCE OF THIEVES and WATERWORLD with shots of Lillian Gish rocking a cradle between sequences, preceded by a 30-minute prologue with Cecil B. DeMille informing the audience that there will be no intermission break.
Ever since I got the Ranown Westerns 4k set I've been itching to see Seven Men From Now and Ride The High Country. About to buy them just to induce the immediate announcement of 4ks.
@@444chroma i’ve been meaning to do reviews of all of them and figured as soon as I make a video review of the Seven men DVD Paramount will announce a craptastic 4K master.
The basic story of "Horizon" has already been done a number of times over the decades, most recently in the 'Yellowstone' prequel "1883",so there was no real need for yet another version, let alone a multi-million dollar 4 part theatrical release! Hollywood seems to be incapable of making small, low budget movies these days, everyone wants to make big, epic blockbusters, virtually making it impossible for the movies to make a big profit at the box office. Some of the greatest westerns ever made were low budget B movies.
I live in Germany. Chapter 1 gets a release in late August over here. The initial release for Chapter 2 was in November. I will watch them on 4k Blu Ray at some time.
@ChainsawManDude97 wild. The last three movies I went and watched (maxxxine, Challengers and Longlegs) were so quiet I should of just waited to watch them at home.
Greetings from Santiago de Chile. There are no news of a theatrical release of "Horizon" here. My country has a population of 20 millions people, and the combined debut of "Inside Out 2" and "Despicable Me 4" has sold more than 4 million tickets so there are just a few screens available to show any other movie. These are the days that the only legal way to watch films is via physical 4K or stream and that's it. Although I have some issues with the movies ok Kevin Costner I really wanted to see "Horizon" in the big screen but it would not be possible. Adiós, amigo.
It's easier and cheaper to dub an animated show in different languages for International markets. You guys aren't expecting Steve Carell or Amy Pohler. Plus the expense wouldn't pay off for Horizon. I don't think a Western with an old gunslinger cowboy pontificating at length in Mandarin will go over too well in China.
I think you missed the metaphor of the ants in the opening, or at least the way it read to me. The first thing that happens in the movie is the settlers drive a post into the anthill, symbolizing the violence of civilization intruding on nature. But then after the settlers are killed, the ants come back and swarm over their bodies. I’m not saying it was the most brilliant visual metaphor of all time but it felt to me like a clear statement on the cyclical violence of colonization, the transience of human life, and the resilience of nature.
The "hype reel" ending sounds like the end of Richard Lester's 1973 version of the Three Musketeers, which showed scenes from the following year's sequel, THE FOUR MUSKETEERS. Of course this was because it was the Salkinds making one long movie, releasing it as two, and paying the actors and crew for one. They tried to get away with that again on the Superman films and got busted.
@@davidosborn6714 THAT’S IT! That’s what I was trying to think of that it sorta reminded me of! But even the Salkinds wouldn’t have split it into four films.😂
I'm not against long movies but even I am starting to check out if they are over 2 and a half hours long these days. between getting to the theater, sitting through trailers, and watching the movie that's four hours of your day right there. And Costner was expecting audiences to do that four times? He would have been lucky if one was a success. "Killers of the Flower Moon" was just one movie based on a best seller, legendary director, an all star cast, and that didn't even make a profit. I also think making multiple movies at once is just not a smart move anymore (O.K. you could argue "Dune" but those came out over a couple of years). If audiences already know that more movies are in the pipeline they will just save their time and money and binge watch them latter.
I would be in favor of theaters instituting a rule for everyone to give up their phones before entering the screen. Otherwise, you aren't allowed to enter. That rule alone would also make vast improvements. Of course, better projection is also needed, the image in so many theaters is really dull. If it's a film with dark cinematography, you will be barely able to see anything (I suffered that issue with The Batman).
@@matheus5230 there were definitely some phones in Horizon but eventually that stopped and just became people checking the time wondering if it was over yet.😂
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderIt's a bit of toss-up how bad a session will be regarding use of phones. I've also encountered kids who are very well-behaved, paying full attention (my 8-year old niece loves the theater, despite being otherwise very hyper-active), while adults that should be mature are scrolling in their phones...
Certainly didn’t expect this review, it was a nice 26th birthday present from Costner and I went to see it twice in theaters. Certainly did not feel it’s length and now it’s making me generally interested in American westerns since I prefer the spaghetti’s. I didn’t mind the structure since it does say “part one”. My theater was fortunately a Cinemark XD complex so even the regular theaters are remodeled, sorry you had crappy experience and hope the 4K home release makes up for it while also hoping for an XD experience on Part Two. Even I’m struggling to find an IMAX/XD showing for Longlegs thanks to Despicable Me 4 taken over lol.
I was totally engrossed and enthralled. I was able to follow every story just fine. I cant ask for more. This is the first part of a 4 chapter novel on the big screen
I had no idea part one and two were being released back to back. My local theatre only screened Part One for a week. Not sure if that was the intention, but I just couldn't get there before it was pulled. However I credit the fact I enjoy Westerns and Costner movies, so it was on my radar. But other than my own interest, this film simply was not publicised hardly at all in my opinion. I fear mainstream film goers were completely unaware of this.
@@TroyUlysses I feel like I could do a whole second video just on the absolutely crap marketing campaign the film had. That hasn’t helped it at all and now Part 2 has been pulled.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderI think that the huge success of a film like Oppenheimer, which is 3 hours and about men talking in rooms essentially, shows that it is possible for serious drama film to be blockbusters, and marketing goes a long way! But I also think that Hollywood should significantly lenghten the window of a film in theaters before reaching digital, regardless of how successful it was, to help condition more audiences to watch prestige fare in theaters rather than at home. Hollywood's greed and obsession with only tentpole action CGI blockbusters conditioned people to go to the theaters mostly only to big tentpole blockbusters. It feels like most of the audience for prestige movies has migrated to streaming, especially TV shows such as Succession. Hollywood studios should learn to think about the long-term rather than short-term profit. As perfectly said in the speech of American Fiction's director in the last Academy Awards, why don't use 200 million dollars to make 20 movies that are 10 million dollars each rather than a single film that needs to be a box-office juggernaut to make its money back. Smaller movies don't have to please everyone and would allow far more creative freedom and personality to the filmmakers, rather than the blandness of blockbuster filmmaking due to having to appeal to the lowest-common denominator in all the worst ways and being micro-managed by executives. Aside James Gunn, barely any director has been able to actually impose themselves on MCU films, it's Kevin Feige calling the shots. The problems with the big Hollywood studios are so similar to the big issues we are seeing in the AAA gaming industry. While Rockstar is still doing well, it's sad to see that they don't really care about anything but GTA now, while they used to make so many games of various genres. Just as indie developers have had to try to fill the void left by the death of the AA games, so are independent american studios and distributors (most successfully A24) having to try to fill the void left by the death of the adult mid-budget film by big studios.
The major chains had an agreement with WB to keep Horizon on 3000 screens for those first two weeks, which expired Thursday July 12th. The smaller theaters were probably free to pull it sooner. In the Movie BUSINESS and it doesn't make financial sense to screen a movie to an empty theater. It's now dropped to 8th place after 2 weeks.
I thought the movie was exceptional and I actually found myself on the edge of my seat several times. It was the fastest three hours I've ever spent in a theater. A common gripe I keep hearing is about how this movie has no real ending, how it feels like the first episode of a limited series, but I just can't sign on for that. I think this type of criticism is not creative, lame and obvious low hanging fruit for people who walk into a movie and have no idea what the plan is. Fellowship of the Ring didn't have much of an ending and left you feeling like there was clearly way more to story, same for Two Towers, The Empire Strikes Back and many other epic movies that were never made with the intention of closing the story in one film. Each of these epic movies told multiple stories at the same time, so the concept of multiple story telling is not exactly a new idea, it's mostly an excuse for people to gripe who already wanted to. I think that politics plays a role. Some people are offended by the way the native Americans are being portrayed, they don't want to believe that murder was widespread on both sides of the settlers and natives. Others just do not have the attention span to sit in a theater for three hours while staying away from their phones. This movie is the same length as "Dances with Wolves" and shorter than "Wyatt Earp". I'm not buying the whole three hours is too long bullshit people are peddling.
@@PaperlessWriter I didn’t know for the longest time either. That film has a convoluted history and production with some even theorizing that Kurt Russell ghost directed it.
I think that the huge success of a film like Oppenheimer, which is 3 hours and about men talking in rooms essentially, shows that it is possible for serious drama film to be blockbusters, and marketing goes a long way! But I also think that Hollywood should significantly lenghten the window of a film in theaters before reaching digital, regardless of how successful it was, to help condition more audiences to watch prestige fare in theaters rather than at home. Hollywood's greed and obsession with only tentpole action CGI blockbusters conditioned people to go to the theaters mostly only to big tentpole blockbusters. It feels like most of the audience for prestige movies has migrated to streaming, especially TV shows such as Succession. Hollywood studios should learn to think about the long-term rather than short-term profit. As perfectly said in the speech of American Fiction's director in the last Academy Awards, why don't use 200 million dollars to make 20 movies that are 10 million dollars each rather than a single film that needs to be a box-office juggernaut to make its money back. Smaller movies don't have to please everyone and would allow far more creative freedom and personality to the filmmakers, rather than the blandness of blockbuster filmmaking due to having to appeal to the lowest-common denominator in all the worst ways and being micro-managed by executives. Besides James Gunn, barely any director has been able to actually impose themselves on MCU films, it's Kevin Feige calling the shots. The problems with the big Hollywood studios are so similar to the big issues we are seeing in the AAA gaming industry. While Rockstar is still doing well, it's sad to see that they don't really care about anything but GTA now, while they used to make so many games of various genres. Just as indie developers have had to try to fill the void left by the death of the AA games, so are independent american studios and distributors (most successfully A24) having to try to fill the void left by the death of the adult mid-budget film by big studios.
the french blu-ray of open range 90 /136/176 euro !!!!!!!!!! no way !!!!! for wyatt earp extended edition, i remenber a vhs ( rental copy ) english language and subtitles french, very rare and ( of course ) very expansive grrr
It’s funny you mentioned about the “analogue” look on the digital format and I can say the least I am fortunate enough to even see digital movies on celluloid film. I was lucky to see Ridley Scott’s Napoleon on 70MM and it WAS HORRIBLE. Since they didn’t do the “optical scan” for this it had a weird texture and the best way I can describe is like you take a tab of psychedelic and see that weird “fuzz”. When I had the opportunity to compare it with Dune 2 IMAX 70MM I was dreading a bit but luckily since they did the “optical scan” it looked amazing. You see a different type of texture that you don’t normally do on the digital plus the colors being more organic, it was a great balance of both. At least being a gen Z here I’m just tired of the “clean boosted” saturation we got everywhere. Once you see Korean dramas, music videos, high production TH-cam videos everything looks the same especially with the color schemes. I’ll take the dirty grimy lens and film grain any day over the rainbow bubblegum flare.
Im really glad u took the time to discuss Horizon. I have many issues with it, some you hit here. First and foremost was the aspect ratio wasnt property displayed in my theater and it had a weird greenish tint at the bottom of the screen. The digital quality does not make the movie feel cinematic. I literally saw GBU in the theater a few days before watching this. Ive been watching a lot of westerns lately, we know big epic westerns and this seemed tight and not magical or cinematic at all. Also Costner shot the movie in the exact same places they filmed Yellowstone and the related streaming westerns and for someone who has seen all those shows, those locations are getting kinda old.
@@slave_to_cinema the bad theatrical experience combined with the many parallels to the style and production of tv series just underlines how this is so closely aligned with them.
@@Alanisawesome essentially it’s distortion from projecting at an angle or onto an angled surface. You have to manually adjust for it or use the projector keystone adjustment.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderOuch. I remember going to see "Ralph Breaks the Internet" at an AMC theater, and the video source file they were using was at a lower resolution that it probably should have been because the video had black bars on ALL SIDES!!! How do I know it was the source file? Because the commercials and trailers filled the height of the screen!! This was a regular 3-D showing by the way.
Movie theaters are dying sadly. Most in my area have closed and the ones left are usually a pretty dreadful overpriced experience where you fear getting attacked by thugs on the way out or bringing home bed bugs. It doesn't shock me that people would rather watch films at home! Buying a Blu ray is cheaper anyway
Ive watched this film and enjoyed it ,look forward to part 2 ,the problem was vue cinema only had it on 1 screen at 1 time slot 8pm ,how the hell is it supposed to make money ,you get the daft cartoons on 3 screens and on wvery hour
I'll first say the same thing everyone else is: very surprised to see this from you but very, very happy. A friend and I have been discussing this project all summer and we're as baffled as your title suggests you are. Although I won't even see Part 1 for three more days, it's obvious to me that the thing is a film of half-measures that practically no one is happy with. I'll add more soon...
Sigh... I really have to do a hot take most viewers will disagree with me about analog intermediate, but: An analog intermediate practice also affected digitally animated movies as well when transferred the digital sources to 35mm such as: -The Disney CAPS movies like The Rescuers Down Under (never got the digitally rendered version on home media) -Toy Story 1 (the VHS and LaserDisc releases uses these only, despite better color contrast and the less amount of errors) -Antz & The Prince of Egypt (the two DreamWorks Animated movies unable to rerender since Pacific Data Images shuts down and the latter would be the best looking if the digital files are rerendered despite the fake grain improves the latter) -South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut (despite restored the pre-HD seasons into 16:9) -Jimmy Neutron: Boy Genius (DNA Productions shuts down, unable to rerender) -The SpongeBob SquarePants Movie (4K releases based on the 35mm scan; but live action scenes seems to be scanned at 2K DI instead of rescanning them into 4K, while most of the animated scenes are 2K digitally painted as upscale) The later two Star Wars Prequel Trilogy entries (Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith) are also affected as well for the films shot in Full HD tape masters, even through the only way to get the unaltered experience on 35mm prints (home media releases altered them significantly since The Phantom Menace DVD release). Not to mention with Robert Rodriguez films since Spy Kids 3D: Game Over (Planet Terror is fake grain; it does has a scratch free version to see this is indeed digitally shot). It does not really help when CGI being new at that time are limited to the highest resolution at that time of filming (not the background, but the actual effects since Westworld & Tron with limited use of it). Therefore, this impact *The Last Starfighter, Young Sherlock Holmes, the James Cameron movies since The Abyss, Jurassic Park, The Matrix, The Lord of the Rings, Spider-Man (2002) and 2 (2004) (despite the latter being the first movie to use 4K DCP; CGI are upscaled to 2K as computers are not that powerful even on that year) and Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl* significantly. Even with the film negative scanning, these movies do NOT rerender the CGI into 4K and higher as they lost the source files, refusing to do so after all (despite encoding right reduces the compression artifacts) or the software is not backwards compatible with modern hardware these days. Even worse as placed the CGI into the negative screwed up the restoration as these are avoidable to scan into 4K (as hard matted). Hell, The Pianist is affected as well when it does rerender the CGI into 4K and added to the film negatives (with few of them based on the 1080p master for AI upscaling screwed up the process), but it has to DNR all of the negatives before regraining the film ruined the point of this restoration. Like you mentioned about The Holdovers, it can be done right by having fake grain fits to the atmosphere. This also applies to digital camera's corrections to the ISO image senor as a different use to the traditional method. This is a harder method however for media shooting's atmosphere. The Raid's 4K restoration despite shot at Panasonic AF100 (limited to 1080p) has both natural colors and fake grain for retaining the grizzly setting of the film. Games does it the different way when seeing the cutscenes impact the experience (for those not like that; it has the option to turn them off) and so is the graphical art style. Coming that I irony liked the analog intermediate movies (as mentioned The Batman (2021), Dune (2021) and Part II), as well for the hybrid usage like Mission: Impossible - Fallout (IMAX scenes are shot in digital) as the movies shot not affecting my overall experience (especially with open matte aspect ratio), films finished in digital should stay digital (even upscale with less compression artifacts to the highest format with correct encoding process); cellular film stay cellular; and CGI better keep the source files to rerender in the future (only films shot at cellular for negatives not shot with CGI before applying them).
i like analogue intermediate process. I think digitally added noise looks terrible. I don't see analogue as a "filmic" look by the definition of having been shot on film... I think its just another process by which natural texture can be added to a film without relying on a digital effect. also the movie is 16:9 so I dunno what idealisticcrusader is trying to claim that its intended to be "filmic".... if that was the case I think they would have chosen anamorphic. I loved Horizon because it was truly different. kevin costner made dances with wolves.... I think he knows what makes a "classic" western. Horizon was to me a new direction; bringing serialization to theatures and tv in an interesting kind of way
I can't help but think about the 1967 russian epic adaptation of War And Peace directed by legendary director Sergei Bondarchuk. Made with the support from the USSR government, in a budget that today would be half a billion dollars, it's 4 films that adapt the book very faithfully and are, in total, over 7 hours long!
I actually think Costner thought he was doing a western War and Peace. Too bad there's not even a trace of Bondarchuk's glorious widescreen photographic flourishes in Horizon. I just watched the complete Mosfilm version of War and Peace on TH-cam and it finally corrected the awful mono mix on the Criterion blu-ray set with the original stereo mix featuring panning directional dialogue.
From commenting on my comment, it honestly also reminds me of Game Of Thrones with its structure and jumping to different “houses”. I can see where people can get turned off especially with it’s time length/structure and I will say when we jumped at the Santa Fe section that threw me off for a bit and it took me to get used to. At least I can follow movies with lots of complexities and can sit down MANY hours of film like Inland Empire or The Irishman so I can handle movies all day haha but I can see how people’s patience can be wearing thin for this.
This is the best assessment of the Costner HORIZON project I've yet heard. Unfortunately, this isn't the first time Kevin Costner's ego has far surpassed his talents. I believe there is an enthusiastic audience for western films today, traditional or revisionist, but Costner's folly is far from what's needed to invigorate the form. I assume you're going to assess the Criterion release of PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID soon. I saw this Peckinpah film in it's theatrical release and have watched every reiteration since, so I'm curious to hear your opinions on this new 4k and blu-ray presentation.
@@TheVid54 thank you!!! I really tried to cover all the bases and come up with a more sensible proposal for this kind of project. We all want it to succeed but the production and execution was done in such a baffling manner. I’m currently going through the Garrett set and oh boy do I have a LOT of thoughts…mostly due to how the proper director made preview cuts are treated as extras and not properly restored in favor of the theatrical cut and now a second critics cut.
It feels crazy to say, but by far the most popular and successful western of recent times is not even a film, it's a cinematic videogame (Red Dead Redemption 2). That sold a ton, and I doubt that most people who bought it were were hardcore western fan. A ressurgence of the western genre in mainstream popularity in theaters is possible, but we haven't had the right film to achieve that.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I'll be tuned in for the Garrett & Billy discussion, because of course, it seems politics have lead to the removal of the MGM Turner laserdisc version (my favorite) even being carried over in HD as well.
AMC absolutely blows when it comes to their theater chains these days. I've been switching over to Regal these days and having a much better experience than with AMC.
Our Regal is my go to theater for the best screen presentation possible. They only failed me once when they were screening the first Spider-Man in 2:35:1 instead of 1:85:1.
Seeing plenty of digital productions purposefully adding a patina of grain, and even gate weave, to have a bit of film texture and look (and sometimes other elements to make them look like a print) is kinda funny when considering how the likes of James Cameron, Peter Jackson and George Lucas embraced digital filmmaking exactly because they dream of getting rid of all film artifacts. And yet, plenty of filmmakers don't share the disdain of those three for anything remotely filmic.
I saw this in a Dolby Cinema because IMAX wasn't available (I think it should have been). Looked quite good to me. I was sorry to hear they have delayed or possibly cancelled Chapter 2 (at least in theaters). Also, slightly ironic that you complain about the length of the film but then proceed to make a 'review' which is almost two hours long ;) But I admire your ambition just as you admire Costner's!
I saw both The Holdovers and Dune theatrically. I gotta be honest. The Holdovers did not look convincing to me at all as something trying to emulate film. It had a very processed look that in no way reminded me of Hal Ashby productions, which was the intent. Dune on the other hand was quite convincing and reminiscent of Vista Vision in terms of its fine grain pattern (something modern audiences can tolerate). Dune was also not trying to look like an older film but a modern one, which makes all of this much simpler. I saw no evidence of quality degradation, but then again, Dune had a massive budget and was intended for IMAX presentations. I am not surprised, however, that Horizon using the same concept would falter given its budget constraints. I can understand why Dune would shoot digitally given the type of movie it is. Horizon did not necessitate digital photography in my opinion and would have been better served using film. Theres so much debate around these concepts. I still think the best way to achieve a film look is to shoot on film and provide a 4k or higher DI. End of story. I think the best looking digitally shot films just embrace the technology. I was reminded of this while rewatching Martin Scorsese's Hugo in 4k. No grain plates, no trickery, just digital photography. Scorsese had the good sense to embrace the look of digital and its a beautiful movie.
Horizon is somehow not playing in my city so this Monday I travel 60 miles to see it with a friend in another town. Gotta see it as I wanna support a project like this and (good) movies in theaters in general. If we all stay at home and watch movies on streaming services movie theaters will quickly fade to become just a (fond) memory of the past. Everyone can remember movies they saw in theaters, when, with who they saw it etc. Streaming doesn’t have that impact. So go to a theater and enjoy movies there and support projects like this and also Mission Impossible for instance as they are done by people with a genuine love for storytelling and film making, @Damn Fool Idealistic Crusader
great review, thx
I wanted to comment about your reference to the "Lone Ranger" radio program having about 5 minutes of filler in each episode. That was planned. All the recordings we have are of the East Coast version of the broadcast. Performed in Detroit for Eastern Standard time and taken off the network feed in Chicago by RCA and cut to disks so a copy could be filed with the script in the copyright office. George W Trendle, the producer and owner of WXYZ Radio, did this to ensure protection of his rights. After the cast did the East Coast version (Live) they went to dinner and came back a couple hours later to do the live West Coast version. They performed the same the script with lines of dialogue crossed out. That is because the West Coast production followed a 5 minute newscast so the script had to be shortened. Fran Striker, the author, was aware of this and therefore wrote the programs so 5 minutes could be removed out of every broadcast without altering the story value. So now you know.
@@TallPaulInKy wow that makes perfect sense! Thank you for that information!!
i love listening to you and how much of a movie and physical media nerd you are
Wonderful commentary. I loved the film but I think everything you are saying is warranted. 1:01:47 it will definitely play better as a streaming show. Do you think this would have done better with a smaller release and then increase screens over a few weeks over a wide release?
Have you reviewed Rio Bravo 4K yet?
Amazon had the 4k Blu-ray at $28 and change being released in August. Now it changed to $48 and change being released in September. :( You can get the streaming version July 16th.
Kevin and his investors are $100+ Million in the hole right now, so he had to Bump the prices in hopes of cutting the losses.
I think the way to fix this is to combine together into a 12-hour cut random second unit footage from HORIZON, ROBIN HOOD: PRINCE OF THIEVES and WATERWORLD with shots of Lillian Gish rocking a cradle between sequences, preceded by a 30-minute prologue with Cecil B. DeMille informing the audience that there will be no intermission break.
Ever since I got the Ranown Westerns 4k set I've been itching to see Seven Men From Now and Ride The High Country. About to buy them just to induce the immediate announcement of 4ks.
@@444chroma i’ve been meaning to do reviews of all of them and figured as soon as I make a video review of the Seven men DVD Paramount will announce a craptastic 4K master.
The basic story of "Horizon" has already been done a number of times over the decades, most recently in the 'Yellowstone' prequel "1883",so there was no real need for yet another version, let alone a multi-million dollar 4 part theatrical release! Hollywood seems to be incapable of making small, low budget movies these days, everyone wants to make big, epic blockbusters, virtually making it impossible for the movies to make a big profit at the box office. Some of the greatest westerns ever made were low budget B movies.
I live in Germany. Chapter 1 gets a release in late August over here. The initial release for Chapter 2 was in November. I will watch them on 4k Blu Ray at some time.
Excellent commentary on the modern state of theaters.
The sound at all my local theaters (90% AMC) have been abysmal.
I remember seeing Sonic the Hedgehog 2 at AMC and the sound was so loud that it was making the ceiling rumble.
@ChainsawManDude97 wild. The last three movies I went and watched (maxxxine, Challengers and Longlegs) were so quiet I should of just waited to watch them at home.
Greetings from Santiago de Chile. There are no news of a theatrical release of "Horizon" here. My country has a population of 20 millions people, and the combined debut of "Inside Out 2" and "Despicable Me 4" has sold more than 4 million tickets so there are just a few screens available to show any other movie. These are the days that the only legal way to watch films is via physical 4K or stream and that's it. Although I have some issues with the movies ok Kevin Costner I really wanted to see "Horizon" in the big screen but it would not be possible. Adiós, amigo.
@@gaspargh the foreign release of lack of one has been troubling and now with part 2 being pulled it’s likely this may end up streaming only.
It's easier and cheaper to dub an animated show in different languages for International markets. You guys aren't expecting Steve Carell or Amy Pohler. Plus the expense wouldn't pay off for Horizon. I don't think a Western with an old gunslinger cowboy pontificating at length in Mandarin will go over too well in China.
Do you reckon he would have gotten way more backing and support if he'd just done it as a TV series? Deadwood still has a fanbase...
@@systemmonitor5295 it’s definitely possible.
LONG LIVE SWEDGIN!!!
I read somewhere that Part 3 has already started filming, I liked Part 1, and we need more movies made for adults in theaters.
I think you missed the metaphor of the ants in the opening, or at least the way it read to me. The first thing that happens in the movie is the settlers drive a post into the anthill, symbolizing the violence of civilization intruding on nature. But then after the settlers are killed, the ants come back and swarm over their bodies. I’m not saying it was the most brilliant visual metaphor of all time but it felt to me like a clear statement on the cyclical violence of colonization, the transience of human life, and the resilience of nature.
By the time the ants had come back and were infesting the bodies i think i had already forgotten about that opening shot.
The "hype reel" ending sounds like the end of Richard Lester's 1973 version of the Three Musketeers, which showed scenes from the following year's sequel, THE FOUR MUSKETEERS. Of course this was because it was the Salkinds making one long movie, releasing it as two, and paying the actors and crew for one. They tried to get away with that again on the Superman films and got busted.
@@davidosborn6714 THAT’S IT! That’s what I was trying to think of that it sorta reminded me of!
But even the Salkinds wouldn’t have split it into four films.😂
Watched it last night, it's bizarre and flaw-ridden, but it improved as it went on I felt.
I'm not against long movies but even I am starting to check out if they are over 2 and a half hours long these days. between getting to the theater, sitting through trailers, and watching the movie that's four hours of your day right there. And Costner was expecting audiences to do that four times? He would have been lucky if one was a success. "Killers of the Flower Moon" was just one movie based on a best seller, legendary director, an all star cast, and that didn't even make a profit. I also think making multiple movies at once is just not a smart move anymore (O.K. you could argue "Dune" but those came out over a couple of years). If audiences already know that more movies are in the pipeline they will just save their time and money and binge watch them latter.
I think it was a huge mistake for Costner to leave Yellowstone. I truly believe that his absence will destroy that series' final season.
I would be in favor of theaters instituting a rule for everyone to give up their phones before entering the screen. Otherwise, you aren't allowed to enter. That rule alone would also make vast improvements. Of course, better projection is also needed, the image in so many theaters is really dull. If it's a film with dark cinematography, you will be barely able to see anything (I suffered that issue with The Batman).
@@matheus5230 there were definitely some phones in Horizon but eventually that stopped and just became people checking the time wondering if it was over yet.😂
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderIt's a bit of toss-up how bad a session will be regarding use of phones. I've also encountered kids who are very well-behaved, paying full attention (my 8-year old niece loves the theater, despite being otherwise very hyper-active), while adults that should be mature are scrolling in their phones...
Certainly didn’t expect this review, it was a nice 26th birthday present from Costner and I went to see it twice in theaters. Certainly did not feel it’s length and now it’s making me generally interested in American westerns since I prefer the spaghetti’s. I didn’t mind the structure since it does say “part one”. My theater was fortunately a Cinemark XD complex so even the regular theaters are remodeled, sorry you had crappy experience and hope the 4K home release makes up for it while also hoping for an XD experience on Part Two. Even I’m struggling to find an IMAX/XD showing for Longlegs thanks to Despicable Me 4 taken over lol.
Part Two has been cancelled. So seeing a prenium experience is a bit off the cards lol.
There honestly isn't enough shitting on the awful theatrical quality
@@clumpyschlipz7571 I’m going to do a follow up to my thx standards video. ITS SO BAD EVERYWHERE.
I was totally engrossed and enthralled. I was able to follow every story just fine. I cant ask for more.
This is the first part of a 4 chapter novel on the big screen
I had no idea part one and two were being released back to back. My local theatre only screened Part One for a week. Not sure if that was the intention, but I just couldn't get there before it was pulled. However I credit the fact I enjoy Westerns and Costner movies, so it was on my radar. But other than my own interest, this film simply was not publicised hardly at all in my opinion. I fear mainstream film goers were completely unaware of this.
@@TroyUlysses I feel like I could do a whole second video just on the absolutely crap marketing campaign the film had. That hasn’t helped it at all and now Part 2 has been pulled.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderI think that the huge success of a film like Oppenheimer, which is 3 hours and about men talking in rooms essentially, shows that it is possible for serious drama film to be blockbusters, and marketing goes a long way! But I also think that Hollywood should significantly lenghten the window of a film in theaters before reaching digital, regardless of how successful it was, to help condition more audiences to watch prestige fare in theaters rather than at home. Hollywood's greed and obsession with only tentpole action CGI blockbusters conditioned people to go to the theaters mostly only to big tentpole blockbusters. It feels like most of the audience for prestige movies has migrated to streaming, especially TV shows such as Succession.
Hollywood studios should learn to think about the long-term rather than short-term profit. As perfectly said in the speech of American Fiction's director in the last Academy Awards, why don't use 200 million dollars to make 20 movies that are 10 million dollars each rather than a single film that needs to be a box-office juggernaut to make its money back. Smaller movies don't have to please everyone and would allow far more creative freedom and personality to the filmmakers, rather than the blandness of blockbuster filmmaking due to having to appeal to the lowest-common denominator in all the worst ways and being micro-managed by executives. Aside James Gunn, barely any director has been able to actually impose themselves on MCU films, it's Kevin Feige calling the shots.
The problems with the big Hollywood studios are so similar to the big issues we are seeing in the AAA gaming industry. While Rockstar is still doing well, it's sad to see that they don't really care about anything but GTA now, while they used to make so many games of various genres. Just as indie developers have had to try to fill the void left by the death of the AA games, so are independent american studios and distributors (most successfully A24) having to try to fill the void left by the death of the adult mid-budget film by big studios.
The major chains had an agreement with WB to keep Horizon on 3000 screens for those first two weeks, which expired Thursday July 12th. The smaller theaters were probably free to pull it sooner. In the Movie BUSINESS and it doesn't make financial sense to screen a movie to an empty theater. It's now dropped to 8th place after 2 weeks.
I thought the movie was exceptional and I actually found myself on the edge of my seat several times. It was the fastest three hours I've ever spent in a theater. A common gripe I keep hearing is about how this movie has no real ending, how it feels like the first episode of a limited series, but I just can't sign on for that. I think this type of criticism is not creative, lame and obvious low hanging fruit for people who walk into a movie and have no idea what the plan is. Fellowship of the Ring didn't have much of an ending and left you feeling like there was clearly way more to story, same for Two Towers, The Empire Strikes Back and many other epic movies that were never made with the intention of closing the story in one film. Each of these epic movies told multiple stories at the same time, so the concept of multiple story telling is not exactly a new idea, it's mostly an excuse for people to gripe who already wanted to. I think that politics plays a role. Some people are offended by the way the native Americans are being portrayed, they don't want to believe that murder was widespread on both sides of the settlers and natives. Others just do not have the attention span to sit in a theater for three hours while staying away from their phones. This movie is the same length as "Dances with Wolves" and shorter than "Wyatt Earp". I'm not buying the whole three hours is too long bullshit people are peddling.
Wow, I never knew Costner was once attached to "Tombstone." Interesting...
@@PaperlessWriter I didn’t know for the longest time either. That film has a convoluted history and production with some even theorizing that Kurt Russell ghost directed it.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader There is even a documentary about Tombstone and chaos behind the production.
And Tombstone ended up being so much better than Costners Wyatt Earp. Sad. But that was not Costners fault
There were stretches of it I really liked, part one will improve with the release of the follow ups I think.
Do you plan to talk about Twisters? They shot it on film!
Kevin's Gate
I think that the huge success of a film like Oppenheimer, which is 3 hours and about men talking in rooms essentially, shows that it is possible for serious drama film to be blockbusters, and marketing goes a long way! But I also think that Hollywood should significantly lenghten the window of a film in theaters before reaching digital, regardless of how successful it was, to help condition more audiences to watch prestige fare in theaters rather than at home.
Hollywood's greed and obsession with only tentpole action CGI blockbusters conditioned people to go to the theaters mostly only to big tentpole blockbusters. It feels like most of the audience for prestige movies has migrated to streaming, especially TV shows such as Succession. Hollywood studios should learn to think about the long-term rather than short-term profit. As perfectly said in the speech of American Fiction's director in the last Academy Awards, why don't use 200 million dollars to make 20 movies that are 10 million dollars each rather than a single film that needs to be a box-office juggernaut to make its money back. Smaller movies don't have to please everyone and would allow far more creative freedom and personality to the filmmakers, rather than the blandness of blockbuster filmmaking due to having to appeal to the lowest-common denominator in all the worst ways and being micro-managed by executives. Besides James Gunn, barely any director has been able to actually impose themselves on MCU films, it's Kevin Feige calling the shots.
The problems with the big Hollywood studios are so similar to the big issues we are seeing in the AAA gaming industry. While Rockstar is still doing well, it's sad to see that they don't really care about anything but GTA now, while they used to make so many games of various genres. Just as indie developers have had to try to fill the void left by the death of the AA games, so are independent american studios and distributors (most successfully A24) having to try to fill the void left by the death of the adult mid-budget film by big studios.
the french blu-ray of open range 90 /136/176 euro !!!!!!!!!! no way !!!!! for wyatt earp extended edition, i remenber a vhs ( rental copy ) english language and subtitles french, very rare and ( of course ) very expansive grrr
It’s funny you mentioned about the “analogue” look on the digital format and I can say the least I am fortunate enough to even see digital movies on celluloid film. I was lucky to see Ridley Scott’s Napoleon on 70MM and it WAS HORRIBLE. Since they didn’t do the “optical scan” for this it had a weird texture and the best way I can describe is like you take a tab of psychedelic and see that weird “fuzz”. When I had the opportunity to compare it with Dune 2 IMAX 70MM I was dreading a bit but luckily since they did the “optical scan” it looked amazing. You see a different type of texture that you don’t normally do on the digital plus the colors being more organic, it was a great balance of both. At least being a gen Z here I’m just tired of the “clean boosted” saturation we got everywhere. Once you see Korean dramas, music videos, high production TH-cam videos everything looks the same especially with the color schemes. I’ll take the dirty grimy lens and film grain any day over the rainbow bubblegum flare.
Im really glad u took the time to discuss Horizon. I have many issues with it, some you hit here. First and foremost was the aspect ratio wasnt property displayed in my theater and it had a weird greenish tint at the bottom of the screen. The digital quality does not make the movie feel cinematic. I literally saw GBU in the theater a few days before watching this. Ive been watching a lot of westerns lately, we know big epic westerns and this seemed tight and not magical or cinematic at all. Also Costner shot the movie in the exact same places they filmed Yellowstone and the related streaming westerns and for someone who has seen all those shows, those locations are getting kinda old.
@@slave_to_cinema the bad theatrical experience combined with the many parallels to the style and production of tv series just underlines how this is so closely aligned with them.
What is keystoning?
@@Alanisawesome essentially it’s distortion from projecting at an angle or onto an angled surface. You have to manually adjust for it or use the projector keystone adjustment.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderOuch. I remember going to see "Ralph Breaks the Internet" at an AMC theater, and the video source file they were using was at a lower resolution that it probably should have been because the video had black bars on ALL SIDES!!! How do I know it was the source file? Because the commercials and trailers filled the height of the screen!! This was a regular 3-D showing by the way.
Movie theaters are dying sadly. Most in my area have closed and the ones left are usually a pretty dreadful overpriced experience where you fear getting attacked by thugs on the way out or bringing home bed bugs.
It doesn't shock me that people would rather watch films at home! Buying a Blu ray is cheaper anyway
And a DVD is even cheaper! Just got Godzilla X Kong and had a blast watching monsters fight at home!
Ive watched this film and enjoyed it ,look forward to part 2 ,the problem was vue cinema only had it on 1 screen at 1 time slot 8pm ,how the hell is it supposed to make money ,you get the daft cartoons on 3 screens and on wvery hour
Hatfields and McCoys was really good!
@@slave_to_cinema I need to pick up the Blu-ray since it’s a reteaming of Costner with Kevin Reynolds.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader i still need it too
I'll first say the same thing everyone else is: very surprised to see this from you but very, very happy. A friend and I have been discussing this project all summer and we're as baffled as your title suggests you are. Although I won't even see Part 1 for three more days, it's obvious to me that the thing is a film of half-measures that practically no one is happy with. I'll add more soon...
What the fuck? Very very happy and you haven't seen it yet? So much for objectivity toward art.
This project was better suited to the small screen. Big miscalculation by Costner.
So you can't enjoy an episodic film like this on the big screen?? How small-minded of you
AMC premium theaters are the best way to watch a movie at AMC. There standard theaters are shit. I choose Dolby Cinema or IMAX.
Sigh... I really have to do a hot take most viewers will disagree with me about analog intermediate, but:
An analog intermediate practice also affected digitally animated movies as well when transferred the digital sources to 35mm such as:
-The Disney CAPS movies like The Rescuers Down Under (never got the digitally rendered version on home media)
-Toy Story 1 (the VHS and LaserDisc releases uses these only, despite better color contrast and the less amount of errors)
-Antz & The Prince of Egypt (the two DreamWorks Animated movies unable to rerender since Pacific Data Images shuts down and the latter would be the best looking if the digital files are rerendered despite the fake grain improves the latter)
-South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut (despite restored the pre-HD seasons into 16:9)
-Jimmy Neutron: Boy Genius (DNA Productions shuts down, unable to rerender)
-The SpongeBob SquarePants Movie (4K releases based on the 35mm scan; but live action scenes seems to be scanned at 2K DI instead of rescanning them into 4K, while most of the animated scenes are 2K digitally painted as upscale)
The later two Star Wars Prequel Trilogy entries (Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith) are also affected as well for the films shot in Full HD tape masters, even through the only way to get the unaltered experience on 35mm prints (home media releases altered them significantly since The Phantom Menace DVD release). Not to mention with Robert Rodriguez films since Spy Kids 3D: Game Over (Planet Terror is fake grain; it does has a scratch free version to see this is indeed digitally shot).
It does not really help when CGI being new at that time are limited to the highest resolution at that time of filming (not the background, but the actual effects since Westworld & Tron with limited use of it). Therefore, this impact *The Last Starfighter, Young Sherlock Holmes, the James Cameron movies since The Abyss, Jurassic Park, The Matrix, The Lord of the Rings, Spider-Man (2002) and 2 (2004) (despite the latter being the first movie to use 4K DCP; CGI are upscaled to 2K as computers are not that powerful even on that year) and Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl* significantly. Even with the film negative scanning, these movies do NOT rerender the CGI into 4K and higher as they lost the source files, refusing to do so after all (despite encoding right reduces the compression artifacts) or the software is not backwards compatible with modern hardware these days. Even worse as placed the CGI into the negative screwed up the restoration as these are avoidable to scan into 4K (as hard matted). Hell, The Pianist is affected as well when it does rerender the CGI into 4K and added to the film negatives (with few of them based on the 1080p master for AI upscaling screwed up the process), but it has to DNR all of the negatives before regraining the film ruined the point of this restoration.
Like you mentioned about The Holdovers, it can be done right by having fake grain fits to the atmosphere. This also applies to digital camera's corrections to the ISO image senor as a different use to the traditional method. This is a harder method however for media shooting's atmosphere. The Raid's 4K restoration despite shot at Panasonic AF100 (limited to 1080p) has both natural colors and fake grain for retaining the grizzly setting of the film. Games does it the different way when seeing the cutscenes impact the experience (for those not like that; it has the option to turn them off) and so is the graphical art style.
Coming that I irony liked the analog intermediate movies (as mentioned The Batman (2021), Dune (2021) and Part II), as well for the hybrid usage like Mission: Impossible - Fallout (IMAX scenes are shot in digital) as the movies shot not affecting my overall experience (especially with open matte aspect ratio), films finished in digital should stay digital (even upscale with less compression artifacts to the highest format with correct encoding process); cellular film stay cellular; and CGI better keep the source files to rerender in the future (only films shot at cellular for negatives not shot with CGI before applying them).
i like analogue intermediate process. I think digitally added noise looks terrible. I don't see analogue as a "filmic" look by the definition of having been shot on film... I think its just another process by which natural texture can be added to a film without relying on a digital effect.
also the movie is 16:9 so I dunno what idealisticcrusader is trying to claim that its intended to be "filmic".... if that was the case I think they would have chosen anamorphic.
I loved Horizon because it was truly different.
kevin costner made dances with wolves.... I think he knows what makes a "classic" western. Horizon was to me a new direction; bringing serialization to theatures and tv in an interesting kind of way
I can't help but think about the 1967 russian epic adaptation of War And Peace directed by legendary director Sergei Bondarchuk. Made with the support from the USSR government, in a budget that today would be half a billion dollars, it's 4 films that adapt the book very faithfully and are, in total, over 7 hours long!
I actually think Costner thought he was doing a western War and Peace. Too bad there's not even a trace of Bondarchuk's glorious widescreen photographic flourishes in Horizon. I just watched the complete Mosfilm version of War and Peace on TH-cam and it finally corrected the awful mono mix on the Criterion blu-ray set with the original stereo mix featuring panning directional dialogue.
@@TheVid54Spot-on comment!
Hardly anyone in Hollywood can tell a coherent and compelling story anymore. It's a dying industry.
From commenting on my comment, it honestly also reminds me of Game Of Thrones with its structure and jumping to different “houses”. I can see where people can get turned off especially with it’s time length/structure and I will say when we jumped at the Santa Fe section that threw me off for a bit and it took me to get used to. At least I can follow movies with lots of complexities and can sit down MANY hours of film like Inland Empire or The Irishman so I can handle movies all day haha but I can see how people’s patience can be wearing thin for this.
This is the best assessment of the Costner HORIZON project I've yet heard. Unfortunately, this isn't the first time Kevin Costner's ego has far surpassed his talents. I believe there is an enthusiastic audience for western films today, traditional or revisionist, but Costner's folly is far from what's needed to invigorate the form. I assume you're going to assess the Criterion release of PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID soon. I saw this Peckinpah film in it's theatrical release and have watched every reiteration since, so I'm curious to hear your opinions on this new 4k and blu-ray presentation.
@@TheVid54 thank you!!! I really tried to cover all the bases and come up with a more sensible proposal for this kind of project. We all want it to succeed but the production and execution was done in such a baffling manner.
I’m currently going through the Garrett set and oh boy do I have a LOT of thoughts…mostly due to how the proper director made preview cuts are treated as extras and not properly restored in favor of the theatrical cut and now a second critics cut.
It feels crazy to say, but by far the most popular and successful western of recent times is not even a film, it's a cinematic videogame (Red Dead Redemption 2). That sold a ton, and I doubt that most people who bought it were were hardcore western fan. A ressurgence of the western genre in mainstream popularity in theaters is possible, but we haven't had the right film to achieve that.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I'll be tuned in for the Garrett & Billy discussion, because of course, it seems politics have lead to the removal of the MGM Turner laserdisc version (my favorite) even being carried over in HD as well.
AMC absolutely blows when it comes to their theater chains these days. I've been switching over to Regal these days and having a much better experience than with AMC.
Our Regal is my go to theater for the best screen presentation possible. They only failed me once when they were screening the first Spider-Man in 2:35:1 instead of 1:85:1.
Seeing plenty of digital productions purposefully adding a patina of grain, and even gate weave, to have a bit of film texture and look (and sometimes other elements to make them look like a print) is kinda funny when considering how the likes of James Cameron, Peter Jackson and George Lucas embraced digital filmmaking exactly because they dream of getting rid of all film artifacts. And yet, plenty of filmmakers don't share the disdain of those three for anything remotely filmic.
I think the analog was used for Dune to make the CGI mesh better with the live action, seems pointless for horizon
I saw this in a Dolby Cinema because IMAX wasn't available (I think it should have been). Looked quite good to me. I was sorry to hear they have delayed or possibly cancelled Chapter 2 (at least in theaters). Also, slightly ironic that you complain about the length of the film but then proceed to make a 'review' which is almost two hours long ;) But I admire your ambition just as you admire Costner's!
I saw both The Holdovers and Dune theatrically. I gotta be honest. The Holdovers did not look convincing to me at all as something trying to emulate film. It had a very processed look that in no way reminded me of Hal Ashby productions, which was the intent. Dune on the other hand was quite convincing and reminiscent of Vista Vision in terms of its fine grain pattern (something modern audiences can tolerate). Dune was also not trying to look like an older film but a modern one, which makes all of this much simpler. I saw no evidence of quality degradation, but then again, Dune had a massive budget and was intended for IMAX presentations. I am not surprised, however, that Horizon using the same concept would falter given its budget constraints. I can understand why Dune would shoot digitally given the type of movie it is. Horizon did not necessitate digital photography in my opinion and would have been better served using film. Theres so much debate around these concepts. I still think the best way to achieve a film look is to shoot on film and provide a 4k or higher DI. End of story. I think the best looking digitally shot films just embrace the technology. I was reminded of this while rewatching Martin Scorsese's Hugo in 4k. No grain plates, no trickery, just digital photography. Scorsese had the good sense to embrace the look of digital and its a beautiful movie.
Maybe the film that is gonna reinvigorate the western genre is gonna be an independent movie that becomes a surprise hit. Maybe coming from A24.
Open Range just a bit of an Unforgiven knock-off.
Horizon is somehow not playing in my city so this Monday I travel 60 miles to see it with a friend in another town.
Gotta see it as I wanna support a project like this and (good) movies in theaters in general.
If we all stay at home and watch movies on streaming services movie theaters will quickly fade to become just a (fond) memory of the past.
Everyone can remember movies they saw in theaters, when, with who they saw it etc. Streaming doesn’t have that impact.
So go to a theater and enjoy movies there and support projects like this and also Mission Impossible for instance as they are done by people with a genuine love for storytelling and film making, @Damn Fool Idealistic Crusader