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I have shingled a few hundred roofs in my time, taken off shingles 30 plus years old tar paper under them was in amazing condition could have reused it(but did not) the huge benefit of the new underlay is the strength , it will not tear off the roof on a windy day if installed correct, tar paper tends to tear off. My experience.
Just had a new roof put on, pretty sure with adhesiive rain and ice underlay. Subcontractors took a shortcut and put it over bad wood on the garage. I can see the underlayment through 2 holes. What kind of repair is that going to involve - whole side of garage, bad section only? Just trying to be prepared if they BS me.
How come I tear off hundreds of roofs with zero underlayment and ice and water membrane and they're bone dry. 4/12 pitches too...3 tab. Personally I think it's easier to go straight when you can see the deck. And if you want you can see the rafter lines so you can throw a nail or two per shingle into the rafters for added hold. Correct me if I'm wrong?
My 6 yr old roof bit the dust in Hurricane Ian in FL. My insurance adjuster said it was in good shape. I lost all the cap shingles and more. An independent public adjuster told me I need a new roof that the gutters are FULL of gravel or whatever you call it to not clean it out it’s evidence. We had 8 hrs of 150 mph winds for 8 solid hours. I’m trying to educate myself but so confused. I want to know what questions to ask when choosing a roofer. Probably 1 in 3-5 houses here are tarped or have a new roof. 😮
It would be good to talk about code requirements for ice barriers and where they are required to be used. I would also like to see you go over the correct way to install a drip edge on the eave and gable ends of the roof. A lot of roofers do not understand the concept of protecting a roof from back up especially if you have gutters. The membrane is taken over the edge and down behind the drip. Then the drip is installed followed by flashing tape to seal the leading edge of the drip.
@@manictiger That is the very purpose of codes-with out them customers would complain consistently and demand something done with codes people complain they have to follow them-you can't win
Please explain how any underlayment other then ice and water sheald is water proof after I just put 8 thousand nail holes in it. Truth is under payment is a vaper berier. Most roofing will sweat on the underside, with the change of temperature. Hens the term vaper bearier.
I was look for a simple was and cheep way to seal up a roof that I got to remove peel and stick and I heard you asking about the fiber glass under lay ment I have used for my torch down roof cover over &I used fiberglass under lament on a motel roof over ,the roof was the old style rubber mat style small pitch flat roof, it was wrong down but still in good shape it just need a top cover I used some cold process adhesive and used the fiberglass felt or under lay ment ,for the top cap ,the fiberglass mixed in whit the felt gives the rool a dark gray look with the white fiberglass , the tools are 36" wide so when I roofed and rolled the rool out over the adhesive ,I went over with a 30" sod roller then my over lap was 16 "All they way thru the roof were 16 " joints there a small pitch on the roof but all in all the fiberglass under lay ment is hela strong and seals what ever you use it on !!
That one spot where you show the video of it raining and it looks like the problem I’m having, I just got new gutters and when it’s pouring out it looks like the water is coming out from the eaves where it meets the gutter
Licensed since 85…I tried the synthetic & liked them- but-a friend had “numerous” leaks with synthetic & determined that the synthetic was tearing at the nail, the synthetic didn’t hug the roof adequately & put to much pressure around the nail…I went back to Astm #30- 2 layers if the roof is a rock to composition conversation or under 4/12 pitch- always use peel & stick in valleys..If I’m going over 1x6’s some times I’ll upgrade to modified felt..
the issue is using just nails and not nails or staples with plastic caps as per specification on the install instructions from most, if not all the manufacturers Been using synthetic for about 5 years, we've never had a single leak or tearing. Some synthetics are thicker than others, such as GAF's Felt Buster Vs their Tigerpaw. when using the Felt Buster, you need to pull it tight as you're rolling and Stapling with the Stinger caps at the same time. It is a learning curve going from tar paper to synthetic
@@StallionFernando I once did do a whole entire house of 45 square of pure grace ice and water how ever haz put that underlayment nows it a pay in the everything in summer time with that material but I have to say very very recommended I've heard it can stay up to 2 months on the roof with no shingles layed and it won't come off or leak we actually left the roof exposed for the night because of some home owner difficulties with the sells man and had a bit of rain come through that night and there where no leaks through chimney nor roof boot intakes nothing but the home owner had a big pocket he daily drives a Bentley
I’d like to see a video of real world testing of underlayment. Putting 15# felt paper, 30# felt paper, synthetic paper and ice and water down then soak it with artificial rain aka a hose and see how protective it is and for how long. That’s a video I’d give a thumbs up to.
When the installer is preforming a demo with a synthetic underlayment. The roofers have to remove the shingles but not with pitch forks. That’s like picking up a vacuum sealed potatoes with a folk. For lack of a better analogy. They have to remove the pins from each place they were secure. safe to say the synthetic IS superior over felt. But I would be curious about. Is ice and water barrier cost effectiveness and how do you make the customers experience exclusive. Great question 👍 its extremely hot in Texas. I’ll tell you what.
I am a home inspector in Kentucky and we have a lot of metal roofs around us. Can you talk about what type of underlayment is good, better and best for that application?
Why not 30 lb. tar paper down first (not with staples -- round plastic cap), then a layer of Polyglass "Polystick MX" self-adhered, then one layer of architectural shingles?
Dmitry explain the importance of putting synthetic underlayment over ice and water shield so many don't and when we go back to tear off shingles their melted together and will not come off it's uninspected and crucial to reroofing a home
Any cons to using ice & water on entire roof decking? I've read its not recommended because it doesn't allow roof to breath but by code it us required on bottom edges and flashing tape is required on plywood seams so I don't understand how that is any different! Thanks
I've been roofing since the 70's. Still do. A roof done right with proper attic venting doesn't need any underlayment. I do put that crap on but I know it doesn't help.
I totally agree. I’m a framer and have been for 30 years. I put the roof on my own house 28 years ago. I used ice and water at the eves and in the valleys and no tar paper because back then, I too thought it was unnecessary. I just ripped it off today and guess what…the 5/8 osb(16”o.c. rafters) was beautiful!! Like you said, if you vent it good and do the right thing, you don’t need that crap! I feel totally vindicated today for all the times I couldn’t get a good answer out of “professionals” for why you should use felt paper. Now I can take those 2 rolls of Tiger Paw back! lol! Thanks for being a voice of reason. Also, I hate roofing!😁
I'm reading a few comments about leakage around the nail heads. Would a liquid flashing help seal that? Also, if you use ZIP sheathing on the roof, would you also need an underlayment (after taping or liquid-flashing the seams)?
If I had extra blueskin SA, could I use that as an underlayment for a shed? It being slippery isn’t a big deal, it’s a small shed. I’m just wondering more about the shingles adhering. Actually they get nailed so it shouldn’t matter…. Right?? Lol
Please recommend solutions to get rid of tar smelling inside my house after new roof installed 1 year ago. Roofing company used 30# tar paper, dimensional, architectural shingles. The tar smell is unbearable during high temperature weather and when the A/C is running. Thank you!
How about permeability? Wouldn't a non permeable underlayment similar to poly trap moisture between it and the shingles? Wouldn't moisture that condensed under the poly after install have nowhere to go except soak your decking?
I read you shouldn't put shingles directly on ice shield because they will adhere to the shield and years later when they are being removed they can't easily get them off without removing the ice shield too.
well. Thats due to the tar adhesive on the back of the shingles. Shingles also stick to shingles underneath, plywood, pretty much whatever you lay shingles ontop of, the shingle will adhere to when it gets warm that first time. however, if you are pulling shingles off the roof I assume you are replacing the roof. you wouldnt want to reuse the undeayment anyhow. so,
CertainTeed makes the fiberglass felt paper. It's banded as Roofer Select. I hate using it, leaves me itchy for a day or two so where long sleeves and Pants if you're not use to handling it. Don't get excited either, it tears just as easily as 15 & 30 ibs paper and if it gets rained on before you install, it wrinkles up and takes forever to dry flat again Never going back to it since we've been bringing in Felt Buster and Tigerpaw from GAF, I couldn't imagine going back to Tar paper
Where can I find the current pricing per roll for this Malarkey Arctic Seal underlayment? Just had a new roof installed, and the contractor should have put the Malarkey Arctic Seal, but instead used GAF Feltbuster! This seems like a breach of contract. Would I have recourse to make the roofer do my roof again to put the Arctic Seal underlayment? I ordered the Malarkey Vista shingles too, and now I need to confirm those are the shingles on my roof (they had brought the Highlander shingles the day before, and I told them about the error).
New roof installed. Found out subcontractors didn't remove bad wood over part of garage. It has ridge venting and should have used some sort of adhesive underlayment like rain and ice. Went into the loft and you could see the underlayment through 2 softball size holes in the wood. Do they need to redo the whole side of the garage or can the rain and ice be merged with existing work so only the bad section needs replaced?
I had corrugated sheets installed on wood after removing tegolas. My roof is leaking now, and I was hoping there's an undercover I can use. My roof is very large. The property is in the hot topics.
Let's think about a re-shingle job on an existing house. What is the main importance or purpose of the underlayment? It' not put on primarily as a secondary leak stopper. It's put on because unless you are putting new shingles over the old, it is YOUR ONLY leak stopper, until the roof is finished. I've heard of some underlayments that won't even hold water. What sense is that?
Please suggest which of these underlayment combination is best for Florida? -1 layer of weather lock G Granulated Ice and water and 1 layer of Rhino synthetic -2 layers of RhinoRoof synthetic underlayment and WeatherLock Specialty Tile and Metal for the high temp water barrier at all valleys, along walls, and around roof penetrations. -1 layer of RhinoRoof® Granulated Self-Adhered Underlayment
Actually, the best in Florida at this moment will be SharkSkin Ultra laid at 3/4 exposure with a 6" grid spacing using 1-1/4" ring shank nails. System is Florida approved @ -210 psf and carries a 50 year limited manufacturer warranty. Oh and exposure is 1 year.....Ain't gonna find nothing better than that!
My house was built in 1980 and has a concrete tile roof and I'm not the original owner. However, the builders made the roof without any subroof ... just flat 1x6 horizontal slats under the tiles. You can easily see daylight looking out the attic space. Having my roof replaced because a couple edge tiles have broken off. Just deciding whether I want (concrete vs. ceramic) tiles or composite/asphalt roof (with a completely added subroof). Your recommendations? I live in California's central valley where we get winter lows in the 20's F and summer highs in the 110s. This video is helpful. Thanks!
I'm an artist. I used to buy copper flashing for projects. It was sold as roofing materials from hardware stores outside of the humid southern states. How is/was copper flashing used in roofing?
Thanks RI. Can you tell us more about the moisture permability of the underlayments?For example felt/tar paper will allow moisture to escape. If water vapor is not allowed to escape wont the wood sheathing eventually rot? Thats what I worry about with these new plastic underlayments.
I know that Malarkey makes a synthetic underlayment that is breathable. It is their premium grade underlayment. Find it on their website. Maybe others do too, IDK.
I used to install the synthetic, installed it on a couple of new construction jobs and had leaks around the nail heads so I went back to 30lb. Have you had similar issues?
I install the synthetic with a Plastic cap nailer or Stinger stapler. Also, the synthetic underpayment is never meant to be waterproofing. Technically, as soon as you penetrate any undergarment, it ceases to be leak proof, that's why proper shingle installation s so important, especially on 3 tab on less than 8:12 in windy areas where wind driven rain is a concern
I've used the fiber glass paper basically it's just like fire resistant and I didn't believe it at first because it's just like tar paper it's black and rolled up so I teard a peace got a lighter and tried to make it burn and as soon as I let go of the lighter it would completely light out ND it didn't really burn it would just turn in to some thing similar to sand not even ashes I've only used it once don't recall the brand either
A roofer told me that he always uses 3 layers of underlayment. The top one is the ice n water shield, which he says would seal the nail holes. Is that correct?
What about cost comparisons for all these underlayments? The paper-type (first one) is old school, and, a home owner, I would prefer something better! Thank you for vid! Very helpful to know about this, so that people can see if contractors/roofs would do a good job both at labor AND materials they charge the customers!
I'm an idiot at roofing and I Don't like ice and water barrier from Owens cornering. I do love their synthetic felt. I can tell you the synthetic felt held with cap nail until 60mph winds. The ice and water completely held in those wind without me really worrying about it much. The reason I don't like the ice and water is if the nails are not fully sank it will protrude through your intended barrier. It says to use a fifty-pound roller I used a ten and it was a mess. Only one side will have ice and water barrier the other side I'm doing two layers of synthetic felt instead. Time will tell if it's a good idea or not
And I can give you the numbers on the current day cost on both 268 ft of like 4ft wide synthetic felt costs is $99.99 or less Ice and water 70 ft about 4ft wide was $99.99 or less
I used zip system on my roof. Installing Epdm over it . The adhesive doesn’t stick to liquid flash and flashing tape. Going to try 3M™ Hi-Strength 90 which Huber says sticks to their product. Was considering blue skin in my scupper trough but will have to test this adhesive on that as well.
Unfortunately you used the wrong product. If you are using EDPM a ZIP System sheathing is not compatible. Also ZIP System sheathing should be used on a roof with a slope greater than 2/12. I hope this helps.
@@captainmo3064 Yes you are correct however . I feel confident it is completely sealed. Flashing and liquid flashing around all edges . No seams in the membrane. The 5/8ths zip roof sheathing was completely sealed as well with no leaks for about a month of storms before I got the membrane down.
Can you put ice and water underlayment on top of the titanium underlayment. We have a roof leak and when we reroof I don't want any chance of it leaking again 😊
I live in El Paso TX (79821) Its Very Sunny, Very HOT and Dry. Is there a thermal barrier that we can install between the underlayment and the Asphalt shingle?
Ive been researching this for months and can't get a solid answer. 2x6 fiberglass, conditioned attic, in NV zone5, (-10f with snow to 115f), high wind application. I want to install a metal roof with an air gap. my only question is, is it safe to install peel and stick (zero perm) onto entire roof deck? Im concerned that interior moisture could start adding up in the fiberglass. I like peel and stick for the benefit of sealing around penetrations.
We need to replace the roofing on a relatively small gazebo. We need 8 triangles and have available standard asphalt shingles. Trying to figure out the best way to tackle this small project. We are older but in decent shape to get up and off of ladders. The center hole is not large enough to get up into, so have to approach from the edges.
We used the peel and stick flintastic stuff on our treehouse roof. It's confusing because as a non roofer I was thinking for a minute I had to put felt on tope of the flintastic underlayment. ~~ I guess I don't have to. It's not a crucial job and the hexagonal treehouse is open on two sides, but we still want a decent roof.
I'd like to know how it reduces your heating bill because most attics are ventilated and designed to be close to the exterior temperature. A product that adds or retains heat would tend to melt the snow and create ice dams.
Let's pretend I'm ignorant on this subject and going to ask a question. When installing the underlayment way do people make the 1st couple rows or lays [near the rain drip edge] tar paper and the rest the plastic looking underlayment?
We just need good or great installers that care how to install any of them properly. Sad to say, but most installers are either don’t care or suck, they just want to get any jobs done asap and don’t care if they install it correctly!
I have heard of "breathable" roofing underlay, much like the "air barriers" used on walls that allow moisture vapour to pass thru, but not water that may have entered the roof cavities. This would be a product typically used under vertically strapping, which would be termed the second roof. Such a product would only be nailed thru at the vertical strapping and would have horizontal strapping spaced above it. A video discussing these products and methods of application would be brilliant.
So after you staple a million holes in the underlayment installing it.....then shoot more holes in it when the shingles are installed.......what secondary protection are you really going to get?
Was told heavy asphalt felt seals those nail holes to keep water from penetrating to the deck. I wonder if anyone has actually conducted an experiment to see if that's true.
I’m a home owner, and I’m wanting the ice and water underlayment install on my roof; can this be put on over a layer asphalt shingle roof or do you have to strip all shingles off, or. the underlayment be installed on the plywood surface? Please text me back
Great information. I'm building new home and only have synthetic felt on right now. Heavy rain today and spotted some leaks. Spoke to the builder who check it out but is this common on a roof that doesn't have shingles on?
The entire point of felt is so your roof doesn’t leak before the shingles go on..If your roof is leaking as a result of the pipe flashing collar not being sealed or some other applicational error that’s not the underpayment fault but if the felt is tearing at the shank of the nail that’s the underpayment fault..In 40 years of roofing thousands of homes #30 ASTM felt has never been an issue..
I have roofing contractors trying to sell tar paper claiming synthetic is crap and leaks and I have contractors using synthetic and claim tar paper is a thing of the past. Who's right?
I was told to use up to 50 pound tar paper to make the shingles last longer because when heat penetrates your shingles the more value of tar paper the heat does not burn the shingles up. The elastomeric underlayment goes on edges, valleys, and the crown roof vents. You have a great opportunity to use many different underlayment for different conditions and get maximum longevity out of your roof shingles. Always go with architectural…. 3 tab is a horrible choice. Spend the money…. Buy once cry once… and if it is applied right…. You will not outlive your roof
I got a brand new roof put on in 2014. they stripped it down put on new wood and everything. My neighbor was asking me questions about my roof today because he needs one. I had my son go up there on our roof and take a picture and to my horror I saw my shingles that are a smoke gray but where the roof slopes down there is a 13 inch spot where the roof is a light gray and lays different from the rest of the roof. What is that. I have a picture of it but I don't know how to send it to you.
I hate installing Grace on a hot day. And if it gets wet it feels like you got traction until you don't. And if there's snow or frost on it then you break out the torch or go home.
Thanks for your video on underlayment. I live in CT. and am having leaks over sunroom.I had solar panels installed on a roof with a 2/12 pitch. Should the solar Co. have recommended and or checked for an underlayment before installing my panels?
Absolutely, they should have inspected the roof before the solar install. I had solar installed one year ago and the installer did a thorough inspection on my concrete tile roof beforehand and also provided a roof penetration warranty for 24 months. I checked in the attic after the first rain and saw no evidence of any leaks. Check your contract for a similar roof penetration warranty. Good luck.
The trouble with the roofing in the USA . They seem to just expect that the tiles slate etc are not going to keep the water out . Whereas in uk and Europe our roofs firstly very little shingles just for sheds and out buildings . Then concrete tiles and slate are there to keep the water out . The problem you have is the roof pitch in many cases far too shallow. And tye rain doesn't come off roof quickly.
I'm getting ready to change my roof. The rep that came out wants to put a warer barior on the botom & sides. He's pushing the gaf products. Then tiger paws underlamet I live in oregon Mild Winters 6:51 . Some snow but not too much, lots of rain.
I have a low pitch roof that has a granulated rolled roof here inHot Humid Florida. I want to upgrade to a shingled roof, but I don't want to remove the existing roof. My question is, what type of underlayment can I use over the rolled roof?
Use #28 fiberglass base, it doesn’t hurt giving it less exposure for flame protection…Dibiten is the best torch down period..they use imported crushed slate flakes from Europe..It’s not cool roof compliant in California but a cool roof coating can be applied once finished..Make sure there is an overflow on all seams and side laps, if not get the roofer back…in 30 plus years of installing 2 roofs a week I’ve yet to have one wear out…
I'm re-roofing a doormer.... very shallow pitch. Am I better off using an ice and water shield product on the whole thing and NOT use the underlayment?
Roofing supply stores sell 2’ by 3’ walk pads that can be sealed down and create obvious walk ways otherwise you’ll void any warranty and those areas will wear out much sooner than they should.
I purchased a new enclosed trailer and underneath it is OSB board that would rot over time. I'm wondering if this sticky roofing membrane would work under there??
I have the underlayment that was like the first one you talked about…i have a small hole in it and want to know if I could use the water and ice self sticky underlayment to go over the hole of the torn underlayment to seal it and put the tile back on it?
Can i use the synthetic underlayment just by itself? I watch a video where a guy said to place and ice and water shield under the Synthetic underlayment. is it necessary or just an added layer of protection? Thank you for the info.
Used Resito eves protec as first underlay and then a membrane underlay. The eave trim is over the resisto and the membrane is overlapping the eave trim. The Resisto acts to seal screws and do it's normal job. I used a GE product to adhere the 3 inches of membrane at the eve trim. Used Butyl tape for all seams and Gable trim. Including valleys. Bought large closures for the ridge cap.
Would like to see a review on ridge vent systems. I have a Cobra ridge vent. With the size of the vent slots It lets in tons of seeds and debre into the attic. Is there anything that can be done with these to prevent the debre infiltration?
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I have shingled a few hundred roofs in my time, taken off shingles 30 plus years old tar paper under them was in amazing condition could have reused it(but did not) the huge benefit of the new underlay is the strength , it will not tear off the roof on a windy day if installed correct, tar paper tends to tear off. My experience.
Another issue with tar paper, is that if it gets water on it before the shingles go down, it gets all warped and bubbly.
Just had a new roof put on, pretty sure with adhesiive rain and ice underlay. Subcontractors took a shortcut and put it over bad wood on the garage. I can see the underlayment through 2 holes. What kind of repair is that going to involve - whole side of garage, bad section only? Just trying to be prepared if they BS me.
@@woodstream6137did you pay them to repair?
@@brianmcdowell7377 warranty covers it.
did my whole roof underlayment in ice and water, in case i ever do solar ... great vid
How come I tear off hundreds of roofs with zero underlayment and ice and water membrane and they're bone dry. 4/12 pitches too...3 tab. Personally I think it's easier to go straight when you can see the deck. And if you want you can see the rafter lines so you can throw a nail or two per shingle into the rafters for added hold. Correct me if I'm wrong?
My 6 yr old roof bit the dust in Hurricane Ian in FL. My insurance adjuster said it was in good shape. I lost all the cap shingles and more. An independent public adjuster told me I need a new roof that the gutters are FULL of gravel or whatever you call it to not clean it out it’s evidence. We had 8 hrs of 150 mph winds for 8 solid hours. I’m trying to educate myself but so confused. I want to know what questions to ask when choosing a roofer. Probably 1 in 3-5 houses here are tarped or have a new roof. 😮
It would be good to talk about code requirements for ice barriers and where they are required to be used. I would also like to see you go over the correct way to install a drip edge on the eave and gable ends of the roof. A lot of roofers do not understand the concept of protecting a roof from back up especially if you have gutters. The membrane is taken over the edge and down behind the drip. Then the drip is installed followed by flashing tape to seal the leading edge of the drip.
Screw code. I just want my half mil dollar houses to last.
@@manictiger That is the very purpose of codes-with out them customers would complain consistently and demand something done with codes people complain they have to follow them-you can't win
@@jakefalasca1561
Right, but I tend to focus on how things are done by the pros first and what's "to code" second. Usually they line up, of course.
@@manictiger exactly I went from code to common sense and knowledge I gained from feeding shingles to installing them
@@manictiger Then watch the Build Show ha ha ha
Please explain how any underlayment other then ice and water sheald is water proof after I just put 8 thousand nail holes in it. Truth is under payment is a vaper berier. Most roofing will sweat on the underside, with the change of temperature. Hens the term vaper bearier.
I was look for a simple was and cheep way to seal up a roof that I got to remove peel and stick and I heard you asking about the fiber glass under lay ment I have used for my torch down roof cover over &I used fiberglass under lament on a motel roof over ,the roof was the old style rubber mat style small pitch flat roof, it was wrong down but still in good shape it just need a top cover I used some cold process adhesive and used the fiberglass felt or under lay ment ,for the top cap ,the fiberglass mixed in whit the felt gives the rool a dark gray look with the white fiberglass , the tools are 36" wide so when I roofed and rolled the rool out over the adhesive ,I went over with a 30" sod roller then my over lap was 16 "All they way thru the roof were 16 " joints there a small pitch on the roof but all in all the fiberglass under lay ment is hela strong and seals what ever you use it on !!
That one spot where you show the video of it raining and it looks like the problem I’m having, I just got new gutters and when it’s pouring out it looks like the water is coming out from the eaves where it meets the gutter
Licensed since 85…I tried the synthetic & liked them- but-a friend had “numerous” leaks with synthetic & determined that the synthetic was tearing at the nail, the synthetic didn’t hug the roof adequately & put to much pressure around the nail…I went back to Astm #30- 2 layers if the roof is a rock to composition conversation or under 4/12 pitch- always use peel & stick in valleys..If I’m going over 1x6’s some times I’ll upgrade to modified felt..
the issue is using just nails and not nails or staples with plastic caps as per specification on the install instructions from most, if not all the manufacturers
Been using synthetic for about 5 years, we've never had a single leak or tearing. Some synthetics are thicker than others, such as GAF's Felt Buster Vs their Tigerpaw. when using the Felt Buster, you need to pull it tight as you're rolling and Stapling with the Stinger caps at the same time.
It is a learning curve going from tar paper to synthetic
I worked on alot of hot tar roofs back in the days we used the fiberglass rolls for underlayment sealed with hot tar
underlayment serves 3 purposes ...temporary roof until the roof is installed ....moisture barrier and prevents shingles from sticking to the decking
I honestly start working on the roofing industry for more than 30 years, and I think the best underlayment that we recommend is# 30 pound tar paper!!
I read that first sentence several x. Proofread, my guy.
Ice & Water is superior, paper is outdated, paper still allows water to penetrate with nails white I&W has much better protection.
@@StallionFernando it just depends on the pocket size ice and water is more expensive and covers less squares per roll
@@StallionFernando I once did do a whole entire house of 45 square of pure grace ice and water how ever haz put that underlayment nows it a pay in the everything in summer time with that material but I have to say very very recommended I've heard it can stay up to 2 months on the roof with no shingles layed and it won't come off or leak we actually left the roof exposed for the night because of some home owner difficulties with the sells man and had a bit of rain come through that night and there where no leaks through chimney nor roof boot intakes nothing but the home owner had a big pocket he daily drives a Bentley
@@StallionFernando Who does an entire roof with ice and water shield? Doesn't it go under the underlayment at the edges and valleys?
I’d like to see a video of real world testing of underlayment. Putting 15# felt paper, 30# felt paper, synthetic paper and ice and water down then soak it with artificial rain aka a hose and see how protective it is and for how long. That’s a video I’d give a thumbs up to.
When the installer is preforming a demo with a synthetic underlayment. The roofers have to remove the shingles but not with pitch forks. That’s like picking up a vacuum sealed potatoes with a folk. For lack of a better analogy. They have to remove the pins from each place they were secure. safe to say the synthetic IS superior over felt. But I would be curious about. Is ice and water barrier cost effectiveness and how do you make the customers experience exclusive.
Great question 👍 its extremely hot in Texas. I’ll tell you what.
@@incubedinsight4940 that’s not true at all. Old synthetic falls apart and crumbles and a fork is easy to use
I am a home inspector in Kentucky and we have a lot of metal roofs around us. Can you talk about what type of underlayment is good, better and best for that application?
Why not 30 lb. tar paper down first (not with staples -- round plastic cap), then a layer of Polyglass "Polystick MX" self-adhered, then one layer of architectural shingles?
Dmitry explain the importance of putting synthetic underlayment over ice and water shield so many don't and when we go back to tear off shingles their melted together and will not come off it's uninspected and crucial to reroofing a home
what do you think about Certain Teed Diamond Deck Underlayment????
Any cons to using ice & water on entire roof decking? I've read its not recommended because it doesn't allow roof to breath but by code it us required on bottom edges and flashing tape is required on plywood seams so I don't understand how that is any different! Thanks
I've been roofing since the 70's. Still do. A roof done right with proper attic venting doesn't need any underlayment. I do put that crap on but I know it doesn't help.
I totally agree. I’m a framer and have been for 30 years. I put the roof on my own house 28 years ago. I used ice and water at the eves and in the valleys and no tar paper because back then, I too thought it was unnecessary. I just ripped it off today and guess what…the 5/8 osb(16”o.c. rafters) was beautiful!! Like you said, if you vent it good and do the right thing, you don’t need that crap! I feel totally vindicated today for all the times I couldn’t get a good answer out of “professionals” for why you should use felt paper.
Now I can take those 2 rolls of Tiger Paw back!
lol!
Thanks for being a voice of reason.
Also, I hate roofing!😁
I'm reading a few comments about leakage around the nail heads. Would a liquid flashing help seal that? Also, if you use ZIP sheathing on the roof, would you also need an underlayment (after taping or liquid-flashing the seams)?
If I do any really steep roofs I like to use rhino synthetic underlay, it’s nice and grippy to walk on and shingles don’t slide on it as much
If I had extra blueskin SA, could I use that as an underlayment for a shed? It being slippery isn’t a big deal, it’s a small shed. I’m just wondering more about the shingles adhering. Actually they get nailed so it shouldn’t matter…. Right?? Lol
@@thefinaldispatch 💯 would be fine.. don’t even really need any underlayment especially for a shed but if you have extra blue skin forsure use it!
@@PavelessAdventure awesome thanks
I'm not a contractor but have done 3+ roofs I like the thickness of tar paper, but I used to have a heck of a time to get it to lay perfectly flat.
I went with 1/2" ZIP with taped seams and a poly underlayment.
Please recommend solutions to get rid of tar smelling inside my house after new roof installed 1 year ago. Roofing company used 30# tar paper, dimensional, architectural shingles. The tar smell is unbearable during high temperature weather and when the A/C is running. Thank you!
Is your roof vented, either with a ridge vent or gable vents. Also are the soffits vented?
How about permeability? Wouldn't a non permeable underlayment similar to poly trap moisture between it and the shingles? Wouldn't moisture that condensed under the poly after install have nowhere to go except soak your decking?
So GAF tells me none of their underlayment are waterproof. If it rains on the synthetic before its shingled, it will leak. Help me out here! Thx
Sharkskin can go on without needing roof right away. Not sure where to buy underlayment as big box stores have limited options.
What about best value and price ? What about albedo for energy efficiency?
I read you shouldn't put shingles directly on ice shield because they will adhere to the shield and years later when they are being removed they can't easily get them off without removing the ice shield too.
well. Thats due to the tar adhesive on the back of the shingles. Shingles also stick to shingles underneath, plywood, pretty much whatever you lay shingles ontop of, the shingle will adhere to when it gets warm that first time. however, if you are pulling shingles off the roof I assume you are replacing the roof. you wouldnt want to reuse the undeayment anyhow. so,
CertainTeed makes the fiberglass felt paper. It's banded as Roofer Select. I hate using it, leaves me itchy for a day or two so where long sleeves and Pants if you're not use to handling it.
Don't get excited either, it tears just as easily as 15 & 30 ibs paper and if it gets rained on before you install, it wrinkles up and takes forever to dry flat again
Never going back to it since we've been bringing in Felt Buster and Tigerpaw from GAF, I couldn't imagine going back to Tar paper
Where can I find the current pricing per roll for this Malarkey Arctic Seal underlayment? Just had a new roof installed, and the contractor should have put the Malarkey Arctic Seal, but instead used GAF Feltbuster! This seems like a breach of contract. Would I have recourse to make the roofer do my roof again to put the Arctic Seal underlayment? I ordered the Malarkey Vista shingles too, and now I need to confirm those are the shingles on my roof (they had brought the Highlander shingles the day before, and I told them about the error).
New roof installed. Found out subcontractors didn't remove bad wood over part of garage. It has ridge venting and should have used some sort of adhesive underlayment like rain and ice. Went into the loft and you could see the underlayment through 2 softball size holes in the wood. Do they need to redo the whole side of the garage or can the rain and ice be merged with existing work so only the bad section needs replaced?
How about the Therma Sheet underlayment?? My company uses it and we have great success
What area of the US?
💯What's the best options for under a metal roof in the midwest with snowfalls? Thanks for tips!
SharkSkin
Can I use 6 mil plastic {visqueen} as a roofing membrane waterproofer
I had corrugated sheets installed on wood after removing tegolas. My roof is leaking now, and I was hoping there's an undercover I can use. My roof is very large. The property is in the hot topics.
Let's think about a re-shingle job on an existing house. What is the main importance or purpose of the underlayment? It' not put on primarily as a secondary leak stopper. It's put on because unless you are putting new shingles over the old, it is YOUR ONLY leak stopper, until the roof is finished.
I've heard of some underlayments that won't even hold water. What sense is that?
Please suggest which of these underlayment combination is best for Florida?
-1 layer of weather lock G Granulated Ice and water and 1 layer of Rhino synthetic
-2 layers of RhinoRoof synthetic underlayment and WeatherLock Specialty Tile and Metal for the high temp water barrier at all valleys, along walls, and around roof penetrations.
-1 layer of RhinoRoof® Granulated Self-Adhered Underlayment
Actually, the best in Florida at this moment will be SharkSkin Ultra laid at 3/4 exposure with a 6" grid spacing using 1-1/4" ring shank nails. System is Florida approved @ -210 psf and carries a 50 year limited manufacturer warranty. Oh and exposure is 1 year.....Ain't gonna find nothing better than that!
My house was built in 1980 and has a concrete tile roof and I'm not the original owner. However, the builders made the roof without any subroof ... just flat 1x6 horizontal slats under the tiles. You can easily see daylight looking out the attic space. Having my roof replaced because a couple edge tiles have broken off. Just deciding whether I want (concrete vs. ceramic) tiles or composite/asphalt roof (with a completely added subroof). Your recommendations? I live in California's central valley where we get winter lows in the 20's F and summer highs in the 110s. This video is helpful. Thanks!
That' was the standard for tile roofs back then! Called skip sheathing.
I'm an artist. I used to buy copper flashing for projects. It was sold as roofing materials from hardware stores outside of the humid southern states. How is/was copper flashing used in roofing?
How many rolls of tar paper i need for 68 foot long and 14 feet wide with a peak too to the peak is 7 1/2 wide Sir
Thanks RI. Can you tell us more about the moisture permability of the underlayments?For example felt/tar paper will allow moisture to escape. If water vapor is not allowed to escape wont the wood sheathing eventually rot? Thats what I worry about with these new plastic underlayments.
I know that Malarkey makes a synthetic underlayment that is breathable. It is their premium grade underlayment. Find it on their website. Maybe others do too, IDK.
I used to install the synthetic, installed it on a couple of new construction jobs and had leaks around the nail heads so I went back to 30lb. Have you had similar issues?
I install the synthetic with a Plastic cap nailer or Stinger stapler.
Also, the synthetic underpayment is never meant to be waterproofing. Technically, as soon as you penetrate any undergarment, it ceases to be leak proof, that's why proper shingle installation s so important, especially on 3 tab on less than 8:12 in windy areas where wind driven rain is a concern
Will the synthetic underlayment work for concrete storm shelters?
I've used the fiber glass paper basically it's just like fire resistant and I didn't believe it at first because it's just like tar paper it's black and rolled up so I teard a peace got a lighter and tried to make it burn and as soon as I let go of the lighter it would completely light out ND it didn't really burn it would just turn in to some thing similar to sand not even ashes I've only used it once don't recall the brand either
A roofer told me that he always uses 3 layers of underlayment. The top one is the ice n water shield, which he says would seal the nail holes. Is that correct?
Best underlayment for flat roof .We do get hot during summer ?
What about cost comparisons for all these underlayments? The paper-type (first one) is old school, and, a home owner, I would prefer something better! Thank you for vid! Very helpful to know about this, so that people can see if contractors/roofs would do a good job both at labor AND materials they charge the customers!
I'm an idiot at roofing and I Don't like ice and water barrier from Owens cornering. I do love their synthetic felt. I can tell you the synthetic felt held with cap nail until 60mph winds. The ice and water completely held in those wind without me really worrying about it much.
The reason I don't like the ice and water is if the nails are not fully sank it will protrude through your intended barrier. It says to use a fifty-pound roller I used a ten and it was a mess. Only one side will have ice and water barrier the other side I'm doing two layers of synthetic felt instead. Time will tell if it's a good idea or not
And I can give you the numbers on the current day cost on both
268 ft of like 4ft wide synthetic felt costs is $99.99 or less
Ice and water 70 ft about 4ft wide was $99.99 or less
I used zip system on my roof. Installing Epdm over it . The adhesive doesn’t stick to liquid flash and flashing tape. Going to try 3M™ Hi-Strength 90 which Huber says sticks to their product. Was considering blue skin in my scupper trough but will have to test this adhesive on that as well.
Unfortunately you used the wrong product. If you are using EDPM a ZIP System sheathing is not compatible. Also ZIP System sheathing should be used on a roof with a slope greater than 2/12. I hope this helps.
@@captainmo3064 Yes you are correct however . I feel confident it is completely sealed. Flashing and liquid flashing around all edges . No seams in the membrane. The 5/8ths zip roof sheathing was completely sealed as well with no leaks for about a month of storms before I got the membrane down.
Hey, how about those radiant barrier capability underlayment? Like Low-E Thermasheet. Looking forward a review on that...
Can you put ice and water underlayment on top of the titanium underlayment. We have a roof leak and when we reroof I don't want any chance of it leaking again 😊
I live in El Paso TX (79821) Its Very Sunny, Very HOT and Dry. Is there a thermal barrier that we can install between the underlayment and the Asphalt shingle?
What is your opinion of Roof Max and Roof Renew rejuvination? Does it work?
Ive been researching this for months and can't get a solid answer. 2x6 fiberglass, conditioned attic, in NV zone5, (-10f with snow to 115f), high wind application. I want to install a metal roof with an air gap. my only question is, is it safe to install peel and stick (zero perm) onto entire roof deck? Im concerned that interior moisture could start adding up in the fiberglass. I like peel and stick for the benefit of sealing around penetrations.
We need to replace the roofing on a relatively small gazebo. We need 8 triangles and have available standard asphalt shingles. Trying to figure out the best way to tackle this small project. We are older but in decent shape to get up and off of ladders. The center hole is not large enough to get up into, so have to approach from the edges.
We used the peel and stick flintastic stuff on our treehouse roof. It's confusing because as a non roofer I was thinking for a minute I had to put felt on tope of the flintastic underlayment. ~~ I guess I don't have to. It's not a crucial job and the hexagonal treehouse is open on two sides, but we still want a decent roof.
What about Erie Construction company's thermo sheet underlayment. It's silver and pretty thick and they say it reduces your heating bill 10-15%?
I'd like to know how it reduces your heating bill because most attics are ventilated and designed to be close to the exterior temperature. A product that adds or retains heat would tend to melt the snow and create ice dams.
Let's pretend I'm ignorant on this subject and going to ask a question. When installing the underlayment way do people make the 1st couple rows or lays [near the rain drip edge] tar paper and the rest the plastic looking underlayment?
What about having an ice & water shield stick--on underlayment on the entire deck, rather than just eaves/rakes/valleys -- is that worthwhile?
We just need good or great installers that care how to install any of them properly. Sad to say, but most installers are either don’t care or suck, they just want to get any jobs done asap and don’t care if they install it correctly!
Synthetic is lightweight and high performance and has great offset values regardless of what lazy asshole installs it.
I have heard of "breathable" roofing underlay, much like the "air barriers" used on walls that allow moisture vapour to pass thru, but not water that may have entered the roof cavities. This would be a product typically used under vertically strapping, which would be termed the second roof. Such a product would only be nailed thru at the vertical strapping and would have horizontal strapping spaced above it. A video discussing these products and methods of application would be brilliant.
seems to me that the breathable quaility is negated by the nonbreathable quality of the shingle
Any ideas for an underpayment for silicone with fabric ?
what underlayment do you recommend in Florida?
So after you staple a million holes in the underlayment installing it.....then shoot more holes in it when the shingles are installed.......what secondary protection are you really going to get?
Was told heavy asphalt felt seals those nail holes to keep water from penetrating to the deck. I wonder if anyone has actually conducted an experiment to see if that's true.
I’m a home owner, and I’m wanting the ice and water underlayment install on my roof; can this be put on over a layer asphalt shingle roof or do you have to strip all shingles off, or. the underlayment be installed on the plywood surface? Please text me back
Great information. I'm building new home and only have synthetic felt on right now. Heavy rain today and spotted some leaks. Spoke to the builder who check it out but is this common on a roof that doesn't have shingles on?
The entire point of felt is so your roof doesn’t leak before the shingles go on..If your roof is leaking as a result of the pipe flashing collar not being sealed or some other applicational error that’s not the underpayment fault but if the felt is tearing at the shank of the nail that’s the underpayment fault..In 40 years of roofing thousands of homes #30 ASTM felt has never been an issue..
I have roofing contractors trying to sell tar paper claiming synthetic is crap and leaks and I have contractors using synthetic and claim tar paper is a thing of the past. Who's right?
Do you think high temp ice & water underlayment would be overkill in Southern California?
Can the "Base sheet" (at 4:50 on this video) be used as a stand alone underlayment in Arizona with concrete tile?
Whats your take on Titanium UDL 25, 30, and 50? Synthetic underlayment. Also Titanium PSU 30 Ice and water shield?
Which would be better for a clay tile roof?
1. Two layers of Malarkey 40 pound
2. Two layers of Titanium UDL 50
3 layers of SharkSkin Ultra
Look up safeguard 30..... hybrid, part polymer part asphalt, and it’s no joke, you can walk a 12/12 no problem. Just did one with it.
Their website claims it’s the best of both worlds. There’s an endless supply of one-off underlayment products. Cool stuff
I was told to use up to 50 pound tar paper to make the shingles last longer because when heat penetrates your shingles the more value of tar paper the heat does not burn the shingles up. The elastomeric underlayment goes on edges, valleys, and the crown roof vents. You have a great opportunity to use many different underlayment for different conditions and get maximum longevity out of your roof shingles. Always go with architectural…. 3 tab is a horrible choice. Spend the money…. Buy once cry once… and if it is applied right…. You will not outlive your roof
Is doing the whole roof in base shield worth the cost over synthetic?
I got a brand new roof put on in 2014. they stripped it down put on new wood and everything. My neighbor was asking me questions about my roof today because he needs one. I had my son go up there on our roof and take a picture and to my horror I saw my shingles that are a smoke gray but where the roof slopes down there is a 13 inch spot where the roof is a light gray and lays different from the rest of the roof. What is that. I have a picture of it but I don't know how to send it to you.
I hate installing Grace on a hot day. And if it gets wet it feels like you got traction until you don't. And if there's snow or frost on it then you break out the torch or go home.
What make/model van is that? I'll need a vehicle to live in after I pay for a new roof and am broke and homeless.
Learned a lot in 6 minutes. Thank you. Would this be the same for what is used for roofs that have tile installed?
Thanks for your video on underlayment. I live in CT. and am having leaks over sunroom.I had solar panels installed on a roof with a 2/12 pitch. Should the solar Co. have recommended and or checked for an underlayment before installing my panels?
Absolutely, they should have inspected the roof before the solar install. I had solar installed one year ago and the installer did a thorough inspection on my concrete tile roof beforehand and also provided a roof penetration warranty for 24 months. I checked in the attic after the first rain and saw no evidence of any leaks. Check your contract for a similar roof penetration warranty. Good luck.
The trouble with the roofing in the USA . They seem to just expect that the tiles slate etc are not going to keep the water out . Whereas in uk and Europe our roofs firstly very little shingles just for sheds and out buildings . Then concrete tiles and slate are there to keep the water out . The problem you have is the roof pitch in many cases far too shallow. And tye rain doesn't come off roof quickly.
We use safeguard 30 it’s a hybrid underpayment it’s pretty good but it’s experience, it runs about $94.00 a roll and it covers 449sq ft.
I'm getting ready to change my roof. The rep that came out wants to put a warer barior on the botom & sides. He's pushing the gaf products. Then tiger paws underlamet
I live in oregon Mild Winters 6:51 . Some snow but not too much, lots of rain.
I have a low pitch roof that has a granulated rolled roof here inHot Humid Florida. I want to upgrade to a shingled roof, but I don't want to remove the existing roof.
My question is, what type of underlayment can I use over the rolled roof?
which is best for a flat roof?
Nice video any underlayment for torch-down roofing installation?
Use #28 fiberglass base, it doesn’t hurt giving it less exposure for flame protection…Dibiten is the best torch down period..they use imported crushed slate flakes from Europe..It’s not cool roof compliant in California but a cool roof coating can be applied once finished..Make sure there is an overflow on all seams and side laps, if not get the roofer back…in 30 plus years of installing 2 roofs a week I’ve yet to have one wear out…
Very informative! I learned alot I needed this because I am facing having to put a new roof on.
When we reroof can we let on place thé iceberg and shield paper? (10 years old)
I'm re-roofing a doormer.... very shallow pitch. Am I better off using an ice and water shield product on the whole thing and NOT use the underlayment?
2/12 or 3/12 yes
What would be the best product for a flat roof with a fair amount of foot traffic
Roofing supply stores sell 2’ by 3’ walk pads that can be sealed down and create obvious walk ways otherwise you’ll void any warranty and those areas will wear out much sooner than they should.
I purchased a new enclosed trailer and underneath it is OSB board that would rot over time. I'm wondering if this sticky roofing membrane would work under there??
I have the underlayment that was like the first one you talked about…i have a small hole in it and want to know if I could use the water and ice self sticky underlayment to go over the hole of the torn underlayment to seal it and put the tile back on it?
0utstanding!👍 What's your thoughts on GAF Tiger Paw Synthetic Underlayment?🙏👀🙏
Can i use the synthetic underlayment just by itself? I watch a video where a guy said to place and ice and water shield under the Synthetic underlayment. is it necessary or just an added layer of protection? Thank you for the info.
Very imformitive! What synthetic underlayment would you recommend for shingles in a hot dry climate, like Southern Arizona?
We are using storm guard in SW Fla on the sheathing then probably rolled rubber or shingles on top
Why do some companies/people refer to asphalt tar paper as felt?
If I purchase the H/T stuff. Can I nail shingles to it after stuck to the roof?
They never mentioned shingling on top of it.
Which would you use for a rooftop walk on deck made of osb. Thanks
Used Resito eves protec as first underlay and then a membrane underlay.
The eave trim is over the resisto and the membrane is overlapping the eave trim.
The Resisto acts to seal screws and do it's normal job.
I used a GE product to adhere the 3 inches of membrane at the eve trim.
Used Butyl tape for all seams and Gable trim.
Including valleys.
Bought large closures for the ridge cap.
Hi
What is the difference between felt and under felt what are the different uses of both of them
Would like to see a review on ridge vent systems. I have a Cobra ridge vent. With the size of the vent slots It lets in tons of seeds and debre into the attic. Is there anything that can be done with these to prevent the debre infiltration?
Cut long strips of aluminum window screening and staple that down, then put the ridge venting down