WORST FATE EVER - Angel Reaction - 5x16 - Shells
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Full and early reactions on patreon: / thelexicrowd
As Angel and the gang try desperately to bring Fred back, Wesley begins to understand that the ancient demon Illyria, now fused with Fred's body, is here to stay. Exhausting all options for saving Fred, the gang switches gears to stop Illyria and her plan for global domination.
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The vampire Angel, cursed with a soul, moves to Los Angeles and aids people with supernatural-related problems while questing for his own redemption.
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#reaction #angel
The whole episode is just one quotable masterpiece. What baffles me even after all those years is, how you can kill one of the most beloved characters, and make the audience still fall madly in love with the thing that takes its place.
Also, Wesley's delivery of that broken, "Yes," when Illyria asks, "Because I look like her?" is still the most heartbreaking scene in all of the Buffyverse.
i find myself holding my breath as he struggles to get that "yes" out every time. agonising.
I might agree with you except then there’s the “pretend” scene in the finale. Possibly the best acting performances in the entire Buffyverse there.
Amy Acker what an incredible actress!
Loved Fred, but Illyria is definitely an interesting character in her own right.
She's all kinds of Nifty. 🤩😍
@@bfdidc6604Amy is just THAT good
"Aw Sameen" Amy is everything, in every role.
I think we can all agree that Alexis deserved an Emmy for this performance.
Well, she married Alyson Hanigan (Willow) and had kids with her, so i think he is fine :)
I absolutely agree, some of his scenes in s5 of Angel showcase the best acting in the Buffyverse, and that’s saying something.
Wesley is someone who tries to be rational, but who will always be driven by his passions.
Amy being an incredible actress is why this storyline happened. She was performing Shakespeare at Joss’ house and hit this amazing vocal range that Joss wanted the world to see it. So he came up with this story line.
I guess that explains the name. Illyria is a fictional town where the Shakespeare play "Twelfth Night" is set.
27:40 To me, the fact that Fred's soul is gone differentiates this horrible death from Jenny and Joyce and Doyle and Tara and Cordelia. Worse, maybe, but at least different 😭. Also, of course, Amy Acker is still around, and she's _fantastic._
4:50 Agreed. The "You are my sunshine-" moment is really gut wrenching. The juxtaposition of the happy start with the jump scare. We know Lorne sees the future through song, and Fred's future right then scared the f out of him. The whole scene really sticks in your head.
Amy Acker needed more to do for her character, and she was impressive as an actress, so they came up with the Illyria idea. While sad for the Fred stans, it was a great opportunity for her to show some range.
It's a terrible thing, but when you've lost someone like that... you'll take even the shadow.
As much as Fred’s death guts me (especially so soon after Cordy’s), I enjoy the dynamic between Wesley and Illyria. I always enjoy seeing the ruthlessness and stark clarity the Watchers are capable of, because they’ve been trained to be as heartless as they have to be to get the job done. Wesley agreeing to teach Illyria is in a sense his second chance at being a Watcher; he screwed up terribly with Faith, but now he has a new pupil to teach. And Alexis Denisof delivers a terrific depiction a man devastated by grief and consumed by despair who goes on anyway.
Illyria, even though only in the last few episodes was one of the greatest characters in The Buffyverse. It was heartbreaking to see Fred disappear into Illyria, but we just know more heartbreak is to come for these two. Season 5 of Angel was incredible with a great story arc, and brilliant writing. Wesley has the greatest arc of any character in The Buffyverse. The pain Wesley feels at the loss of Fred you can really see, his actions are driven purely by the intensity of the situation. Nothing Wesley ever did was for his own gratification he genuinely always tried to do the right thing. He is truly human. He even was willing to kill his own father to protect Fred! Illyria is of course is like Glory on steroids! Knox was suss from the start, and now we see his true worth. Gunn it seems is holding something back regarding the shipment. Great little comedy relief with Spike on the plane bemoaning the size of the mini bar bottles. We get a great sense of revenge when Gunn punches the arrogant Doctor, but he of course done the deal with Gunn to free the shipment for Charles to continue as a legal genius. When Gunn says to Doctor 'take it back' all the knowledge etc we can see his is genuine, and would do anything to bring her back. Definite foreshadowing here for The Dollhouse Series with the complete brain loading for the Actives in that show, along of course with Amy Acker as Dr. Claire Saunders in that series. When Wesley blows away the Doctor after overhearing the conversation it is a brilliant scene. 'Nothing from Wolfram & Hart is ever free'. When Angel is giving his great speech to Illyria about saving Humanity, and then Wesley kills Knox, he turns around and says to Wesley 'were you even listening'. Incredible to turn such a serious scene is into a glorious comedy moment. This show is on another level! Wesley is now like Liam Neeson in Darkman seeking total revenge. Fantastic scene when Wesley and Illyria are talking and she comes to the realisation her world is gone too. Wesley explains to her how she must change if she needs his help. The final scene of Fred leaving home and hugging her parents is totally heartbreaking knowing how her life would end up. A brilliant episode again leading on to a stunning Finale.
I love Illyria. And even though I loved Amy as Fred too, the character was kind of stagnant and it’s great that Amy got to really showcase her acting chops the rest of the season and Fred’s death provides character motivations going forward especially for Wes.
As much as I hate what happened to Fred, I'm so glad Amy Acker stuck around. She's amazing. Plus Ilyria is a great character.
The first time I saw this episode, nearly ten years ago now, it broke me for DAYS. Now, I can rewatch a lot of it without crying, but A Place Called Home ? I don't think I'm ever NOT going to be in tears the second I hear that song. It's BRUTAL 😭
The Wesley/Illyria arc is truly something to watch going forward. There are so many messed up and endearing moments despite how short-lived they are the remainder of the series. And Wes can't even be angry at Illyria, she didn't do that to Fred on purpose like Jasmine did to Cordelia, plus there isn't much they can do against her since if it was her intent or personal against Fred. And poor old Gunn, his guilt isn't quite over just yet. There's more suffering to come for him, unfortunately
Lexi:”It can only get better from now on right? Right? Nothing worse will happen on this show. The saddest parts are behind us, right?”
I applaud your naive optimism.
Remember the episode with Jasmine, when everyone was in the sewer, and Fred was talking to Gunn. She said the negative emotions she felt, she would rather take over "Being a shell, any day" it was foreshadowing.
Probably not, there's almost no chance they were thinking that far ahead. Shell is a pretty common term. "A shell of her former self."
I think nonexistence is probably better than an eternity in a hell.
Although the team all "accept" the statement that the soul was consumed, it is actually only stated by someone associated with Illyria.
If you are so inclined, there is wiggle room for whatever personal head cannon you wish to develop.
Bear in mind Willow assumed Buffy ended up in a hell dimension, when in fact she entered something like Heaven. The living do not necessarily understand the true nature of the afterlife, regardless of the their level of confidence.
That's my argument, that the only person that said her soul was destroyed, was one of Illyria's followers. Problem is, there is no evidence that he was lying. I wonder if challenging that theory was going to be part of the season 6 plot, if the show didn't get cancelled
@@alexh8613 look at the comics seasons..(spoiler...some dead characters return...)
@@TheNakorius I've seen the comics and the bad thing about comics, is that they literally can do anything. Have a pet dragon? Sure, why not. With the TV show, you at least kind of had to make it believable. With comics, nobody is actually really dead. Anything at anytime can happen. And they hit the reset button way to many times.
Plus he could just be lying to discourage them from trying
SPOILERS FOR LEXI:
idk how if she's actually finished with the season yet lol I know the videos are behind. Anyway, disclaimers aside; the original plan should the show not have been canceled was for Fred to start to emerge and become a kinda Jekyll and Hyde situation. Which was later explored in the comics though the comics are... a very very very mixed bag.
fun fact, illyria knew glory and thought she was a trashy god 😂
That ending scene which bookends the beginning scene of the last episode is so heartbreaking and always gets me.
Amy Acker did wonderful as Fred and just as great at Illyria. The acting and writing are top notch when you can hate that a character died (Fred), but still love having the killer around (Illyria). I also love that they can show Illyria identifying with the tragedy of Fred's passing through her army not being around.
No help from the Scoobies because of mis and non-communication and instead they are making pre-concieved judgements. 🙄 Sounds on brand for them, sadly. Angel definitely shouldn't be working for W&H, but he's far from evil. When I hear fans say the Scoobies get better in this regard over the years, I almost always disagree.
Lexi knowing it was Wesley after the initial scare of the gunshot, but before we see him holding the gun that killed Knox is highly amusing.
Memories make the person, but there are only fragmented memories of Fred Illyria remembers, so who is Illyria and is Fred really dead? Two interesting questions.
It was absolutely necessary to destroy Fred's soul. The two shows have started to cheapen the impact of death by first resurrecting Buffy after a sacrifice culminating from the show's best season, and then Spike, who is no worse for wear. The undo button is too much of a fallback that fans would start to expect it if it was not directly addressed, just like when Willow summoned Osiris to save Tara and he refused. Fred's death also drives much of the characters for the rest of the season in some incredible episodes. Also, this is such a good cast. Everyone is spectacular in this episode, and this is a real turning point in Amy Acker's career that convinced everyone that she can do anything.
Yeah, most deaths in the Buffyverse stick but there's enough exceptions that it does lessen the impact a little. The bonus that Acker sticks around after Fred's death lessens the impact of Fred's death a little too, though in a very different way. Of course I really like Illyria as a character so I'm a bit biased.
That scene with Lorne was jarring. That's the word that I use for it. ❤
If it’s any consolation had the show not been cancelled Fred would’ve been brought back in Season 6.
So while everyone is talking about Fred and Illyria I'm going to focus on someone else. Spike. He makes a very interesting comment to Angel about wanting to stay in LA becuse he wants make his second chance at life mean something. I'm paraphrasing but that's essentially the idea.
Some people seems to be under the belief that Spike serves no purpose in this season other than as a comedy foil to Angel. And while that is true I think this scene pretty encapsulates what he his purpose is for the most part. For the first time in Spike's vampire life he is making a decision that is all his own.
He makes it clear that he could be an overseas agent helping the helpless but he's choosing to stay in LA because he believes in fighting this upcoming apocalypse because it's the right thing to do. He's not doing it to impressive a girl or just for a good fight.
He's choosing to do it because he believes in andwants to do something right simply beacuse it's the right yhing to do. This is Spike's best season in the Buffyverse his entire charater arc has led him to this.
I couldn't agree more! I know they drop the ball on some of Spike's arc this season but it really truly is the perfect culmination of his overall trajectory of his story. He needed to be separated from Buffy and fighting the good fight of his own accord without hope of a reward in order to not only show the audience what a good person he's worked so hard to become but to also show himself. At the end of the day he's become a champion and he's no longer solely motivated by his love for Buffy but by a true desire to do good and a love for humanity that was even in him when he was a soulless demon.
Yes, just like Angel decided to stay a vampire. He recognised he had a higher purpose.
Amy acker as Illirya is amazing. I HATE the way Fred died, especially cause this show killed both their female leads in a horrible way, but Im conflicted by how much I like Illirya and her arc. At least we kept Amy Acker
This episode reminded me of Buffy 2x17 and 5x16.
Gruesomely brilliant.
I think you'll come to like Illyria in the end.
"gruesomely brilliant" is a brilliant phrase
Joss wrote and directed the first scenes and also Fred's parents scene (all of them probably for the last episode). He wrote Wesley-Illyria scene and co wrote and co directed some of the Spike scenes. The perspective line was Joss too. He also selected the music at the end.
It's good to see Angel and Spike, the legendary vampires, fight together
All of this is paid back near the end of the final episode of the season (and of the show). You'll know it when it happens.
Fred's death is one of the worst types of grief ever.
She's gone, but her body remains, but her soul has been completely destroyed, but some memories remain, but Illyria is completely different, but she feels some of Fred's emotions, but...
it's chaotic and cruel and confusing, and it doesn't allow people to properly mourn her..
And that's the whole point. They destroyed her soul so that it WOULD be one of the worst deaths ever, but they kept the 'shell' so that we could still have Amy Acker and be reminded of Fred constantly. It's actually a very good story device and well executed.. regardless of how much we hate it, it did make for a very compelling story, and gave Amy a chance to show her acting chops.
Sounds an awful lot like Alzheimer's.
"The saddest parts are behind us, right?"
Yeahhhhhhh about that...
But yeah, Amy Acker when she drifts into and out of Illyria to Fred and back... Astounding amount of skill.
I remember when Fred’s death tore me apart inside while I was silent in tears.
Fred's death is one of the hardest deaths to deal with. The other two members of Angel Inc who died - Doyle and Cordelia, both tragic but noble - Fred's death is devestating, especially because her soul was destroyed in Illyria's resurrection Fred's story is also especially tragic, from being thrown into Pylea, being "hunted like cattle", to being finally rescued and slowly becoming a highly valued member of Angel Inc. Her intelligence was off the scale, and she saved the team several times. Her chemistry with Wesley was beautifully developed, finally culminating a few episodes ago. It's tragic and unfair. I wish we could console ourselves that "she's in a better place, but she isn't. Having destroyed Fred to rise, I thought I would hate Illyria, but her own story (albeit brief) is a wonder to behold... I don't want to give anything away, but Illyria is probably in my top ten BuffyVerse characters!!! I just wish we got to see more of her - and didn't have to lose Fred 👀👀👀
4:00 What we are supposed to do now is be witness to how awesome of an actor Amy Acker is!! Wow!
Average Buffyverse viewer: well, Fred is dead but there's tons of undead and other entities beyond human life out there, so we might still see her and the stab wound in my heart might heal after all...
_Writers: A-ha! So that's where we left the knife, Let's see what happens if we twist it a lot._
I’ve been watching you since the Buffy musical, cuz I saw the episode & decided to watch & I subscribed that day. I have never seen such a fake smile on you as when you started this intro. It looked like you were causing yourself physical pain to smile.
At least what we do in the shadows has kept you laughing.
Was this the "perfect" buffyverse episode? I mean, it had everything! Purpose, action, grieve, an invencible powerful enemy, the look for 'redemption', treason, hope, and a beautiful song...
Yeah , it's a little obvious in hindsight what they did to plunge the dagger with Fred's death, but what the actress does with Illyria is so good , love the story line and how she plays it.
also, this is a bit of a spoiler but only if you read the comics - Fred's soul wasn't actually destroyed but it's not revealed till much later.
"i think I have missed the last words Fred said to Wesley"
Oh no you haven't :)
Fred was an amazing charactere. She survived 5 years in a dangerous place and while sometimes her 'awkward' side glimpsed here and there, like Cordys 'mean shopping girl' trades, she progressed so much over the time.
Illyria is also interesting right from the start, thanks to writing and Amy Ackers performance.
I would love, if they do something to seperate Fred and Illyria and have them both side by side. Someone should text this to Amber Benson 😅.
That last scene isn’t a memory it’s a bookend to the first scene of the last episode. This is a part 2 of a 2 part episode and the first one starts with the Fred flashback to when she leaves for LA and this one ends with the end of that same scene where she leaves for LA
Grandslam for Amy’s acting. She made you give a shit about Illyria
If you think about it, Illyria is quite a tragic character. She was the Queen of the universe, a goddess worshiped by all, and now she has been brought back to life with only a fraction of her power, her army has been reduced to dust, her kingdom is gone, and she is alone in a strange and unknown world that she does not understand.
Are you planning to read comics? I don't know if it's true, but apparently in the comics x years later, Illyria did something and recreated Fred's soul.
I guess more to do with last ep, but it's amazing how many of the memorable scenes in this show have to do with Lorne's ability, whether funny (the karaoke scenes) or dramatic (Fred's illness reveal, Wesley singing lil' Connor to sleep in S3).
Gunn said he knew someone would get hurt by what he did, just didn't think it would be someone he knew
Fred's death was heart-breaking. She was awesome, and behind only Willow on my WhedonVerse Crush List. That being said, I love that Amy Acker got to play a character who is the polar opposite of her original character all on the same show. She's all kinds of Nifty. 🤩😍
I love Illyria. It's such a fascinating and awesome character arc. A demon god that ruled the Earth before humans got too far away from the apes they started as, trapped in the modern world. Confused, lost and while powerful, unsure of what that power even means when everything she knew is gone. Sure, Illyria could take over the world, but for what? There's no goal. The other demon gods are long gone, back to the Hell dimensions, so she can't fight them and fighting the humans would be as rewarding as swatting a fly would be to us. She has to adapt, and she doesn't know how.
They said Fred's soul was "consumed," which means eaten, and you are what you eat! I choose to believe that means she lives on as part of Illyria.
One of my favorite things about the Illyria vs Jasmine thing is that Jasmine appears good and whole and is actually fundamentally evil, while Illyria presents as a major threat, and yet is willing to learn and change. It's interesting commentary about what actually makes a being good--the choices they make, rather than what they inherently are.
It always bothered me that such a brave character met such a tragic end. Her soul didn't get to move on, it was consumed. Just seems so unfair. That being said helluva couple of episodes and I did grow to love Illyria.
I loved Fred. She's a great character and such a lovable person. Amy Acker played her to perfection. Killing her off was a horrible thing to do, they really aimed for the heart on that one and didn't miss. I said it before, but I always feel this is the true reason you didn't get a grief for Cordelia episode. Two so close together would have just been boring... or too cruel, you decide.
But seeing Amy playing Illyria really opened my eyes to just how great an actress she is. I don't see Fred at all when I look at her performance as Illyria, and I think that's what impresses me the most. Obviously we don't get to see much of her, so perhaps my take on the character is wrong, but I loved what the character Illyria was doing in her time on the show. She was so much more interesting to watch than Fred. I feel terrible saying that, but I could have watched an entire season with her in rather than what we got. A season of Fred and Wesley being all lovey dovey? not so mu... oh who am I kidding, I've shipped those too far to long to say I'd have been opposed to that either 😄
Gunn may not have known what would happen, but without him signing that release form for the sarcophagus Fred would not have come in contact with it and therefore she wouldn't have died, an then on top of that he tried to keep this hidden from the others when he found out the truth
Exactly, Gunn messed up and he messed up big. Wesley shouldn't have stabbed him and he doesn't deserve to die for it but he made a poor choice and that has consequences.
It's not like Gunn knew this was connected to Fred, why is this ignored? I repeat, he did not know...Yes he should have spoke up but as unstable as Wes was, I think even if Gunn confessed, Wes may still have went revenge Wes on him.
@@shootingreal5945He knew someone would suffer because of it he said it himself. And that's just as bad.
@@shootingreal5945 Gunn himself admits he kinda knew the deal he made would hurt someone, he just didn't think it would be Fred, so he was ok with someone being hurt by his deal as long as it wasn't anyone he cared about, anyways I feel like he gets the punishment he deserves in the coming episodes and I feel he redeems himself in the end
@@Pod042b I think that's the true crime Gunn committed, the apathetic nature toward others..it was never targeted toward Fred but to the average person.
I will give writing some credit, much better than the evil Cordelia of S4. For one, we aren't suppose to be mislead in thinking Illyria is in anyway Fred so our perception of Fred's character remains intact. And we get to see Amy Acker play this totally different character, so it feels like we get to see more of what this actor has when given fresh material to play out.
One other point towards Illyria as a character that keeps me from total hatred is that she never chose her vessal. Illyria would have jumped into any body present when freed, and Fred was there. She held no ill will towards Fred any more than a disease would have to a host.
8:46 Wesley is so right here, hopefully we don't take everything else with us.🙏
20:51 It's stuff like this why Wesley is one of my favourite characters in the entire Whedon-Verse.🤣
I'm wondering if they got this bit from a Deadpool Comic or if Deadpool got it from here for the first movie.🤔
23:04 So we Sound our Victory Cheer! 😥😢
25:22 I would too, probably.
25:59 Kim Richey's version of "A Place Called Home" is an absolutely beautiful song, and a Fred Montage Video that I keep in my collection of Awesome FanVids. 😭🤟
Don't think of Fred as being gone, think of her as "Fred=Illyria" like "Angel=Angelus" but as she agreed to Wesley's terms of no killing it is like "Angelus" deciding to drink Pigs blood and not Humans.
I hate that love Illyria
Amy Acker plays dark and twisted characters like a master. If you've never seen a show called Person of Interest, she plays a scary good hacker in that. I highly recommend giving it a try. Don't know if it's reaction worthy though.
Fred is in heaven. Fires of resurrection.
Amy Acker is so good as Illyria. By the way, you should check her and Alexis Denisof in the movie, _Much Ado about Nothing._ It would make a good reaction.
Obviously I hated that we lost Fred but I adore Illyria. As with many of Joss's ideas, it's very bittersweet.
Also, the ending isn't Illyria remembering anything it's just the show giving us a flashback of Fred leaving for L.A. It's the show saying goodbye to her.
Illyria is like Howard the Duck- trapped in a world she never made.
😂
It's not a romantic relationship or anything, but another time the show sucker punched us right after giving us something good is in Season 5 of Buffy.
Buffy comes to the realization and acceptance that she doesn't need a man in her life, a very healthy step.... And comes home to find her mother dead on the couch.
i love amy acker’s performance as illyria.
The Flash is trademarked, they'd have to pay to say it. Anyway, Amy got an award for her performance in Angel. Yes, Fred is completely, totally and utterly *gone.*
Fred is gone, gone. Amy Acker is on the show until the end. But Fred's dead.
21:08 - He's a way better man than me lol
No happy couples. That what Joss does. Most TV shows actually, too. On average, ships get together in the 3rd season, are happy for an episode or two, then wham! Taken away.
Spoiler. . .
I think it was Whedon who said that S6 (if it happened) would have shown Fred's soul not to be gone and possibly done a type of jeckle and Hyde type situation with her and Illyria (Which I believe is what happens in the comics, which are considered canon).
You don’t know how hard it was not to say anything last week when you were talking about bringing her back to life, knowing what Fred’s fate was ahead of time. 😞
As much as it sucks to lose Fred, they are some amazing episodes/scenes with Illyria that just wouldn't be possible with Fred coming up
Such a drastic difference in how the two characters are portrayed and what they bring to the group
Fred was up there with Tara. Pure souls.
For all his flaws, this run of Wesley/Fred/Illyria from the last episode through to the end really cements Wesley as my favorite character in the series. Although, seriously, they couldn't give Wesley and Fred a little longer? It wouldn't have needed a full episode dedicated, but at least something indicated that they had some span of time to enjoy each other. I was rooting for them to get together since before she got together with Gunn. Love Amy Acker in both rolls though. Fred totally charmed me.
I'm still mad at Giles being hypocrite and self righteous as he refuses help Angel to save Fred when Angel takes over most powerful evil corrupt Wolfram&Hart Enterprise. He and The Scooby Gang doesn't know the explanation of why Angel takes over Wolfram&Hart in the first place. The only reason is Angel made deal with Wolfram&Hart to save his biological son Connor and his future true love of his life anchor Cordelia to give Connor a new wonderful good normal life and recover Cordelia from her coma.
Gunn didn’t do anything to hurt Fred. He didn’t know Wolfram&Hart corrupt him as he sign contracts to being more than just muscle for team. He's not just muscle for Team Angel Investigations. I love the way he is before Wolfram&Hart corrupt him into something he's not. I don't blame him for what happened to Fred.
Fred still alive as i believe. Her inner beast Illyria remembers her host Fred's past.
Fred and lllyria is like Angel and Angelus, Yin and Yang, Khalil and Painkiller, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Sherman and Buddy.
still pissed that giles/willow refused to help.
The really have no reason to help the ones running Wolfram and Hart
After years of watching this episode, I still refuse to believe Fred’s soul was destroyed. Who did we get the information from? The evil doctor. That’s it. Why on earth are we taking his word as law. Fact check that shit. He says it to Gunn. Then Wesley asks Gunn if that’s true. Then Wesley tells the rest of them. Nothing else backs up that her soul was destroyed. The body is done, yes, but her soul is fine.
Even if the entire being that is Fred is gone, she will never be fully gone. She lives on in the memories of the people who loved her. That's true in the Buffyverse, that's true in the real world, when dealing with death. And while Fred's death is monumentally sad, Illyria is a pretty great character in her own right.
since u've already finished the show at this time, it's not really so much a spoiler, but the guy that said Fred's soul burned up and is gone was lying, or at least he was misleading with the way he elucidated it to make you think it means Fred is now nonexistent. it's revealed even in the same episode at the end when Illyria says Fred basically "melded" with her, even Illyria doesn't understand the full extent of which at this point, but later in the comic continuation it is clear that she is still Fred. So the guy lied, Fred just became this new version of Fred which also happens to be Illyria, so technically he was right that Fred as we knew her as dainty and helpless Fred is gone and nonexistent, but Fred is still in there in Illyria
I love Fred so much. I also love Illyria so much.
Fred indeed left a hole in the worlyriad with her passing, last episodes title had a double meaning. I like to think God reaches down and saves the soul of heroes in the Buffy verse at the last second, regardless of what mythology the use. Illyria is a fantastic character, though. Amy Acker plays her so well.
Human school 😂 Such a hilarious way to put it 👏
I preferred Illyria over Fred, a much cooler character.
Great reaction. After finishing the shows, you may want to check out the comics.
Not many people notice that both buffy and angel loose their beloved cast members in 5x15/16.../ also..not many series can make us feel so much emotion...Buffy, Angel...even Dollhouse..
I actually hated Gunn after these two episodes for his part in it. His fall to temptation was always going to cause havoc, and he should have known that there would have been a cost.
Did you really think WRH wouldnt take care of that army
You missed Doyle and Cordy in the beginning :) (I'm sorry)
Gunn thought it would be someone, though. Fred is sacrosanct but someone else is okay?
I’m with you - IMO this was the saddest death in all the Buffyverse, because we can’t even hope for Fred’s soul to be in heaven, or anywhere else. To this day I really don’t like to think about that. But … I understand why the producers and writers did it: they wanted to give Amy Acker a chance to stretch out her acting abilities and play someone very different before the show came to its conclusion. (I love the story Amy tells about when they informed her Fred was going to die … it’s cute as hell.)
I think the point was the reactions of the other characters.
Gunn really is weak. The moment an opportunity to make a bargain with demons comes along, he snaps at the chance. He's done it before.
I love Amy Acker for the role fred. but also her Illyria.
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ok so for fred lovers like me but also love Illyria growth, i read in the books somewhere fred gets her soul resuced by Illyria in the end, and gets a 2nd chance though Illyria actions which also redeems Illyria in my eyes. the both of them was great, thx to the actor Amy.
Just feel I have to ask... are you going to be okay for the rest of the season?
Is anyone really ok with the rest of the season? Fantastic as it may be...
@@colleenmarin8907 True.
Spike: Thousands would have died if we'd saved her.
Lexi: Does it look like I give a fuck?
Wow, you have COMPLETELY wasted your time watching this series. We're halfway through the final season and you still think that way? Have you NO comprehension what _Angel_ is about?
I love these episodes,; but angel is very bad at math
letting illyria free geopardize all of mankind.
saving fred should have been the logical choice
(but i love illyria so...)
Oh yeah that never even occured to me. If Illyria had her army the human race would have been toast
to be fair i realized that by watching your reaction.@@TheLexiCrowd
The way Joss killed all my favorite female characters of the Buffyverse off: Cordelia, Anya, Tara and Fred like damn give me a break ☹️ He really hates women.
Spoilers
Doyle, Wesley, Gunn, Spike and Angel. All either dead or in a death like situation by the end. Nobody is special here.
@Mrsupertallblackman The WAY the female characters are killed off is the issue. Doyle and Spike died as heroes, actively saving the lives of numerous others. Jenny, Joyce, Tara, Anya, Cordelia and Fred don't get an ending even close to that
Exactly!!!!! You nailed it perfectly!
You really tried to compare what they did to the women of the show to the heroic deaths the men got? Not to mention it's also different getting a horrible death to maybe make not dying right at the end of the show.
That intro is a ...no..just get to the reaction.
Illyria>>>>Fred
I have to admit, I don’t like Fred as a character. And I know I’m one of the exceedingly few to have this opinion.
She feels like an extreme parody of Willow’s character. The genius-level intellect belied by the child-like “sweetheart” personality. The oh-so-goofy-and-quietly-whacky so we can’t help but love her social awkwardness.
But at least Willow had a fully realised character. Fred feels pointless. She contributes nothing to the show and the plot would progress much the same with or without her. She only serves as a plot device for other characters (mostly Wesley) to expand from.
I see what they were *trying* to do with the character of Fred, but I found her obnoxious, annoying and almost bordering on Mary-Sue at times.
I didn’t care when she died. Her character always felt pointless anyways, but especially so in Season 5, other than to (again) be a device to further Wesley’s character.
Illyria is more interesting as a character, but again, doesn’t really contribute anything other than being a catalyst for Wesley’s character arc.
I don’t like Fred.
I don't think Fred is child-like. A sweetheart definitely, socially awkward absolutely. But child-like I don't know about that. Also, Fred is definitely a fully realized character considering where she was when we met her to where she was by the end. She went from a crazy meek crazy slave to someone who takes lead of the team when Angel and Wes aren't there.
Fair enough. Everyone has their own opinion, and we don’t agree on Fred. And that’s okay.
Joss Whedon is fuked up. He wanted to kill xander and some other main characters on Buffy but thankfully he was talked out of it by the writers. Some one told me Fred actually comes back in the comics
Can no characters die?
Spike: Thousands would have died if we'd saved her.
Lexi: Does this look like I give a fuck.
😂🥲