Please, at least a 5min guide in honor of HMT Bedfordshire? I had the honor of maintaining the graves of four crewmen (including my distant cousin Ordinary Telegraphist Stanley Craig) back in the 1980's - people should know that early in WWII there were British sailors making the ultimate sacrifice just a few miles off the US coast fighting for our safety!
I recently saw a picture of what was said to be HMS Leander in Malta just after the war, but her superfiring rear turret was missing all the other parts of the ship line up as a Leander class, so could this have been Achilles instead or were the Leanders used to test some strange post war ideas?
@@joshthomas-moore2656 Leander had the same removal of X turret in favour of a pom pom after being torpedoed in the Solomon Islands, but didn't see any further war service. So if the ship is there in wartime and/or in New Zealand service, its Achilles. For a few years post war it might be Leander.
why was having 2 twin turrets in an AX configuration for a primary battery in Pre-dreadnoughts more popular then having 3 twin turrets in an AQX configuration?
Thanks for that informative video. HMNZS Achilles is a major feature in my family as our father joined her as a 17 year old and was a signalman during the Rver Plate battl
Thank you, for a brief take on her service. My grandfather 1939-1945 + J Force Lead Stoker HMS. HMNZ Achilles. The Sailors Shanty: "Ronnie Stokers" And we work around the clock, Taking shifts on the tock, We are the stokers of the engine room, Propelling our ship through seasons and moons 2024 RIP Ronnie 101 yrs, 1939-1945 JFORCE
@@philvanderlaan5942 To be fair, the film makers did have a slight problem in that Graf Spee had been a scuttled wreck for many years. Hardly suitable for the silver screen 😁
@@deaks25 I think using a highly detailed model , for exterior shots would have been better. Using Salem in my opinion was just spending lots of money while not really trying, like Michael Bay CGIing explosions on to Oliver Hazard Perry Guided missile frigates in the middle of the Pearl Harbor attack. Really hard to Unsee.
The Achilles seems to be a particularly lucky ship : practically never damaged, avoided the most hopeless battles (Singapore and Force Z and coming late in Guadalcanal), and postponing the scrapping by being sold to a foreign navy. Almost as invincible as her namesake. ^^
@@florianschneider1860 I didn't know that. But then it does make sense; Victorious had already showed she could pretend to be a US carrier, so obviously had acting talent...😂
The Leander class are definitely good looking ships, somehow the designers managed to get a near perfect balance of form and function. My favourite, however, are the County class CAs; they sit there metaphorically cracking their knuckles and glowering at the opposition.
Y turret and her fire control tower still exist and are on display outside the New Zealand Naval base in Devonport, Auckland New Zealand. A great thing to see. Thanks for this wonderful video.
I could be wrong but Y turret used to be on display between the two barracks at HMNZS Tamaki on North Head. The other barracks was Gambia I think. Since Tamaki is no more not surprised that it's been moved to HMNZS Philomel.
My Grandad served as a stoker on her late 43 to 45. He had a love for her that lasted his lifetime and his pride in serving on her has passed to me. I have the pennant that hung in his mess safely packed away in an airtight container ready to be passed on to the next generation.
The Battle of the River Plate was always one of my favorite wartime movies. The tale of Captain Langsdorf was always intriguing to me. The deception of the Royal Navy stating that they had multiple heavy units waiting for the Graf Spee to leave Montevideo and the ultimate destruction of the ship by the hands of its own crew to evade capture, ending in the Captain Langsdorf's ultimate suicide. It's just always been a very intriguing story.
Graf Spee was in no condition for a fight and Langsdorf knew it. Fuel for 15 hours, 1 hours worth of ammunition and a wrecked galley so no food. That ship wasn't going anywhere no matter how many fibs the British told. Langsdorf saved his crew from a needless death and should be remembered for his humanity.
When _Achilles_ / _Delhi_ played herself in the Battle of the River Plate, one of her former senior officers was brought onboard as an advisor - rumour has it that the largest Battle Ensign she flies before engaging _Spee_ is one of the ones she carried in the actual fight which the officer had kept as a momento
Saturday! I love these. Drach’s Guides are a joy. Drach, you make my Saturday better! Thanks for all the hard work. Remember watching the movie Battle of the River Platte as a kid, probably mid-sixties and being amazed. I think it was from Drach I first heard about Achilles playing herself. Only she, and Audie Murphy ever had that honour. Only complaint is you didn’t tell us where in NZ we have to go to see the turret! I want to put it on my million item bucket list!
Her fire control tower is also on display along with her y turret. Is really cool to go and see. Then you can go into the naval museum in Auckland and see a piece of armour from HMS New Zealand damage during the Battle of Jutland along with the Māori piupiu (warrior's skirt) and hei-tiki (pendant) worn by her captain during battle. A great display.
I was thrilled to visit her as the INS Delhi while visiting Wellington NZ in about 1970. After I’d mentioned to a host officer that my uncle had been in the RNZN he gave me a full tour of the ship, including a cup of tea in the wardroom. I’d previously heard about her WW2 adventures so was keen to visit.
I always felt that for what were supposed to be second line ships the Leanders and Arethusas gave good service during wartime. The designs are pretty heavily criticised these days as they are unfairly compared to ships like the Brooklyns or the Towns but could the Royal Navy have built enough Town class to do everything the Leanders and Arethusas did? Probably not I’d have said.
They probably could have. But if they had tried it, they wouldn't have had anywhere near enough cruiser hulls due to the treaty limits. Considering they were a compromise design, the smaller cruisers did a great job
The Leander class light cruisers, at 7,390 standard tons, were about 2,500 tons lighter than the Brooklyn class, and about 4,250 tons lighter than the Town class. So yes, they were less capable ships, because they were smaller (and slightly older).
Well, the one glaring downside of the lighter cruisers was that they gave up the one single advantage of the treaty system, which was that one could actually know what one was going to be facing. In Fisher's day, the Royal Navy was always aware that the enemy could be just one build season away from invalidating whole classes of existing Royal Navy ships. With the treaties, Britain knew that new ships should be no more than 10,000 tons with 8'' guns, which meant that so long as Britain built a cruiser of 10,000 tons with 8'' guns, it was most likely a match or better than any other cruiser. Well, by building Leanders, the Royal Navy got a handful more hulls in the water, but the hulls were not certain to be capable of handling all likely comers on their own, which was risky. Two Leanders probably could handle most likely comers, but mind that Leanders were not able to be built at double the numbers of Counties, which were ships that could generally be said to be a solid match for most cruisers of the era. Definitely can see why they were controversial even before they were first being launched. Also grateful that they were able to mostly avoid being caught in disadvantageous situations, as a few different choices by some Italian, German, and Japanese commanders could have really changed the score sheet.
@@genericpersonx333 Britain always needed numbers due to its Empire while Germany, Japan and Italy had no such concerns. So while people might complain about the Leanders and other smaller British cruisers, I dont see so many complaining about the equivalent Axis ships. For example, the Konigsbergs of the Kriegsmarine, the Giussano class of the Regia Marina or in fact just about any of the Imperial Japanese Navy's light cruisers all of which, at worst, the Leanders could have taken on with a reasonable chance of success and, at best, would have seriously over matched. The engagement between HMAS Sydney and the Italian cruisers Giovanni dalle Bande Nere and Bartolomeo Colleoni being a good example of this. Comparing them to the Towns is folly on the grounds Britain wasn't going to be fighting herself and it was unlikely theyd be fighting the USA either. Keeping in mind the fact the Leanders were built for showing the flag in peace time and trade protection during the war, there were few enemy light cruisers, who were built as front line ships and in theory had no reason to be so lightly built, who could have stood up to a Brooklyn or a Town either.
They are not really "second line" ships... From Norman Friedmans "British Cruisers Two World Wars and After". The view prevalent at the time was that the larger full 10,000 ton cruisers were to be used for trade protection duties and the smaller cruisers are the ones to be used for fleet work alongside the destroyers. If anything their doctrine put the larger Towns and Countys as the 2nd line ships and the smaller cruisers of the Leanders, Arethusas and Didos as the ones expected to be with the battlefleet. Of course actual war situation throws a wrench in any sort of planned use case of a certain ship class, It was better to have a ship pressed into a duty it was unsuitable for rather than not have a ship in the first place.
Another excellent video! Thanks! Those Leanders were great little ships. I first read about Achilles as a kid in the Dupuy book "The Naval War in the West: the Raiders" a slim book written for younger readers. My gateway to military history, along with the Landmark series.
One of the best parts of these vids is the introduction credits. The part towards towards the end of intro where the twin gun turret fire and a whole bunch of garbage goes flying everywhere from the back blast of the guns. I find it funny every time I watch!!😋😛🤗😍🤩
If I'm not mistaken the tug assisting the Achilles in the photo shown at 1.30 looks to be the Melbourne Steam Tug Tooronga. Therefore she must have visited Melbourne at some stage during her time with the Royal New Zealand Navy. Can you verify this Drach? Also at the age of 15yo I was fortunate to inspect the INS Delhi (Achilles) when she called at Melbourne on her way to visit New Zealand in 1969. I remember being extremely impressed by her immaculate white teak decks and polished brass. Climbing into her twin 6 inch gun A turret was the highlight !!
As INS Delhi, she would serve a stellar career. Many her COs became Admirals, and her gunnery during the 1961 Liberation of Goa (from Portugese rule) was exceptionally accurate and effective. Her Quarterdeck forms part of the "antim pag" or last step that passing out cadets of the National Defence Academy march through. All in all, a beloved ship in India. The newer INS Delhi (comm. 1997) is much more, shall we say - lethal.
They wanted to try to do a Taranto/Pearl Harbour style attack using HMS Furious and HMS Argus's planes in the attached. Would have been an amazing achievement and a fantastic piece of history had they actually done it in 1918/1919 as planned. War ended before they could try it.
My 2nd cousin TJ Grice is on the war memorial at Takapuna Auckland. As an Able Seaman he worked as part of the communications team on the Archilles. During the Quada Canel Action he replaced another crew member on X-Turret who had fallen ill. The bomb that hit X turret obliterated him and a number of crew were lost. As none of his remains could be found he was declared missing in action. His wife who was looking after 2 small children, had to wait until after the war for him to be declared deceased before a war pension could be paid. Lest we forget,
I recently found a photograph of the HMS Ajax taken by my grandfather in December 1939 or January 1940 in the port of Rio de Janeiro. The ship was on her way back to Europe and my granddad was going home to Uruguay after a long and eventful journey through Europe in the days immediately before and after the beginning of the war. If that photo is of some interest, and can share it.
I saw her in Bombay in April 1988 (a few years after being scrapped???). The funnel was unmistakable. Moored beside ex Hermes that had originally caught my eye. Unfortunately, I was only passing on a boat so didn't have a chance to investigate.
As a sea cadet I spent time in the Achilles barracks at HMNZS Tamaki on courses. A few years later I used to do rounds there as an assistant OOD. I think the Y turret used to be between the two division barracks, all gone now though.
My Grandfather served on the HMNZS Achilles after his "Ride" the HMS Prince of Wales was sunk by the Japanese. Good thing he got off at Singapore beforehand. He told me he saw the Nukes dropped on Japan. He also said he was able to lie about his age because he was a big farm boy! he was just 15.
Great video Drac, on what has to be the most famous of the first wave Leanders (unless you count Ajax in that Diamond camouflage pattern!), but how about a video on her half sister, the HMAS Hobart, we all hear about her sisters Sydney, sunk by the Kormoran, and Perth, sunk in Sunda Strait, but Hobart survived the war and had a fairly lively time, yet she gets overshined by her sisters and half sisters.
I went to Sea Cadets in Auckland New Zealand in the 80s It was TS Achillies in Okahu Bay ,thats what we were named after ,there was a time before it got scrapped to turn it into a Museam and get it up Meola creek so its by the other War stuff at nearby MOTAT museam
Dear Sir, I am so impressed with your knowledge and also the knowledge of your communities questions of you. I enjoy every minute watching/ listening to your answers, I recently watched you “guest starring” on Animarchy History and I applaud you for being such a gracious guest. The Anime ladies were nice, but the host was, overselling the goods…. Tacky is a kind word…. However …. I learned a lot and it got me interested in, and watched his complete video about Hans Jocahim Marseille..holy cow! Very impressed…. I also agree with you that the Anime HMS Hood was the best one. Thank you for being you. Hope you get this, and thank you for your time, Regards, Corporal Stone, USMC 1986-1990, Semper Fi
Hi drach, I've heard that towards the end of ww1 the Royal Navy had an idea to launch air attacks on the High Seas Fleet. If this is so, what was the objective of such a plan? Surely the available aircraft wouldn't be able to carry munitions capable of sinking a capital ship. Was it to mildly irritate the Germans enough until they came out to play? Or to go after their logistical supplies?
They wanted to try to do a Taranto/Pearl Harbour style attack using HMS Furious and HMS Argus's planes in the attached. Would have been an amazing achievement and a fantastic piece of history had they actually done it in 1918/1919 as planned. War ended before they could try it.
Thanks for the video. A relative of mine served on this ship in ww2. Is great to have some more details on the ship's service. I have some document from when he signed on and it has his rank as "Bugle boy". That amuses me.
Given her general near imperviousness to damage, one wonders if she had some New Zealand artifact of protective power, in the manner of HMS New Zealand.
I can only presume that HMNZS Achilles appears on my TH-cam,because at some time in the past, I mentioned; somewhere on the web; that my grandfather came out of the Durham pits to serve as leading stoker on HMS Achilles in WW1.
Dune (like the novel) - Din (as in the last name of Kipling's heroic water bearer (He- "Do you like Kipling?" She - blushing ang giggling - "I don't know, I've never tried it that way")
@@colbeausabre8842 Not sure about the ship but Dunedin the city in NZ is three syllables. Dun (rhymes with pun) e (just say the letter e) din (rhymes with pin). That's what the locals say and I lived there for a decade. To quote wikipedia, " Its name comes from Dùn Èideann, the Scottish Gaelic name for Edinburgh, the capital of Scotland." And I have no idea how that might be pronounced.
As an engineer I'm sure you will enjoy this question. I have tried to explain to my two sons what a sea chest is on a ship could you explain that briefly and what it does?
impressive size. i always thought it was 1 heavy and 2 LIGHT cruisers chasing the german battle cruiser this one looks like a solid cruiser, not light cruiser
No - X turret was the higher of the two after turrets. In order from bow to stern A-B-X-Y, So far as I know, the RN never had a Z turret, so Y was the aftermost. It also didn't use the letter C, so even though the five turret Dido class had its third turret forward, it was designated as P. Prior to this, P and Q had been reserved for midships turrets. Seven turreted HMS Agincourt totally broke with tradition, her turrets were designated by days of the week.
The US title of the 1956 film with this ship was: "Pursuit of the Graf Spee.'' Great picture. Didn't recognize it by its UK/Commonwealth title. I guess the name change was because the least educated American with the price of a ticket would be expecting a fun comedy about a crockery fight by a river.
Pinned post for Q&A :)
Please, at least a 5min guide in honor of HMT Bedfordshire? I had the honor of maintaining the graves of four crewmen (including my distant cousin Ordinary Telegraphist Stanley Craig) back in the 1980's - people should know that early in WWII there were British sailors making the ultimate sacrifice just a few miles off the US coast fighting for our safety!
I recently saw a picture of what was said to be HMS Leander in Malta just after the war, but her superfiring rear turret was missing all the other parts of the ship line up as a Leander class, so could this have been Achilles instead or were the Leanders used to test some strange post war ideas?
@@joshthomas-moore2656 Leander had the same removal of X turret in favour of a pom pom after being torpedoed in the Solomon Islands, but didn't see any further war service. So if the ship is there in wartime and/or in New Zealand service, its Achilles. For a few years post war it might be Leander.
@@Drachinifel Thank you sir.
why was having 2 twin turrets in an AX configuration for a primary battery in Pre-dreadnoughts more popular then having 3 twin turrets in an AQX configuration?
Thanks for that informative video.
HMNZS Achilles is a major feature in my family as our father joined her as a 17 year old and was a signalman during the Rver Plate battl
Same, but after River Plate!
My uncle served in X turret during the battle of the River Plate, only to be one of five crew of HMS Moa kill when she was sunk in 1943 at Tulagi .
Fair Winds and Following Seas Sir.⚓.
Thank you, for a brief take on her service. My grandfather 1939-1945 + J Force Lead Stoker HMS. HMNZ Achilles.
The Sailors Shanty: "Ronnie Stokers"
And we work around the clock,
Taking shifts on the tock,
We are the stokers of the engine room,
Propelling our ship through seasons and moons
2024 RIP Ronnie 101 yrs, 1939-1945 JFORCE
Jeez, he enlisted really young. My Mother was living with her uncle and on her 3rd September he said _"Happy 15th Birthday, wars been declared."_
She's a wonderful ship, even had a chance to star as herself in the Battle of the River Plate movie
"Which is my best side? Port or starboard?"
Better than a 9 gun 17,000 ton 1945 cruiser pretending to be a 6 gun 14,000 ton 1934 ‘ battleship’
@@philvanderlaan5942 To be fair, the film makers did have a slight problem in that Graf Spee had been a scuttled wreck for many years. Hardly suitable for the silver screen 😁
@@deaks25 I think using a highly detailed model , for exterior shots would have been better. Using Salem in my opinion was just spending lots of money while not really trying, like Michael Bay CGIing explosions on to Oliver Hazard Perry Guided missile frigates in the middle of the Pearl Harbor attack. Really hard to Unsee.
@@philvanderlaan5942 whining.....😏
The Achilles seems to be a particularly lucky ship : practically never damaged, avoided the most hopeless battles (Singapore and Force Z and coming late in Guadalcanal), and postponing the scrapping by being sold to a foreign navy.
Almost as invincible as her namesake. ^^
Hmm, exactly as invincible - lasts a good while, then doesn't.
Let's recall that her namesake was killed by an arrow^^
How many ships can claim to be not only a movie star, but also starring as herself... That alone makes Achilles a pretty cool ship.
Victorious also played herself during the film Sink the Bismarck along with actually taking part in that chase in real life.
@@florianschneider1860 I didn't know that. But then it does make sense; Victorious had already showed she could pretend to be a US carrier, so obviously had acting talent...😂
H.m.s Amethyst stared as herself in "the yangtze incident"
HMS Cumberland also plays herself in the same film. My grandfather was onboard at the time.
One of the river gunboats of the Nile played herself in the Gordon rescue attempt film.
Got to love the fact that this ship, with so much history behind her, demands a SECOND video for her SECOND life in a completely different navy!
It's 1AM here in New Zealand, glad I'm still awake for this.
"sometimes as an interpreter between the two". I chuckled heartily.
I've always liked the look of the _Leander_ class. Not sure why, they just look balanced, graceful, and businesslike to me.
Victorious also played herself during the film Sink the Bismarck along with actually taking part in that case in real life.
The Leander class are definitely good looking ships, somehow the designers managed to get a near perfect balance of form and function. My favourite, however, are the County class CAs; they sit there metaphorically cracking their knuckles and glowering at the opposition.
@@alanhughes6753 The Countys needed to look menacing since that's about the only protection they have.
Y turret and her fire control tower still exist and are on display outside the New Zealand Naval base in Devonport, Auckland New Zealand. A great thing to see. Thanks for this wonderful video.
Another turret also still survives in India, plus some of the 4 inch guns.
Was looking for this comment. I see it almost every day.
I could be wrong but Y turret used to be on display between the two barracks at HMNZS Tamaki on North Head. The other barracks was Gambia I think. Since Tamaki is no more not surprised that it's been moved to HMNZS Philomel.
New Zealand has a "Naval base"??? How many canoes?
Seriously though, I must get to Devonport. Compare your disappearing gun to the Brisbane one.
@@JohnJ469 ..NZ has several disappearing guns.
My Grandad served as a stoker on her late 43 to 45. He had a love for her that lasted his lifetime and his pride in serving on her has passed to me. I have the pennant that hung in his mess safely packed away in an airtight container ready to be passed on to the next generation.
The Battle of the River Plate was always one of my favorite wartime movies. The tale of Captain Langsdorf was always intriguing to me. The deception of the Royal Navy stating that they had multiple heavy units waiting for the Graf Spee to leave Montevideo and the ultimate destruction of the ship by the hands of its own crew to evade capture, ending in the Captain Langsdorf's ultimate suicide. It's just always been a very intriguing story.
Graf Spee was in no condition for a fight and Langsdorf knew it. Fuel for 15 hours, 1 hours worth of ammunition and a wrecked galley so no food. That ship wasn't going anywhere no matter how many fibs the British told. Langsdorf saved his crew from a needless death and should be remembered for his humanity.
When _Achilles_ / _Delhi_ played herself in the Battle of the River Plate, one of her former senior officers was brought onboard as an advisor - rumour has it that the largest Battle Ensign she flies before engaging _Spee_ is one of the ones she carried in the actual fight which the officer had kept as a momento
That is not a rumour of the flag returning to the ship in the film. That actually happened.
I actually had the chance to go onboard her when she visited Brisbane, Australia as part of the Indian Navy in about 1969 or 1970.
Sounds like this Achilles didn't have heel problems.
Spent a lot less time sulking in a tent, too.
Your pronunciation of Dunedin was certainly interesting!
I know; it hurt my soul a little.
🤣Yep Dunners seem hard for people
You're a better man than I am, Doonah Din
I thought the comments would be awash with irate Kiwi's, and I'm an Aussie.
Lol, I heard that and wondered what the Doonadin was, it never occurred to me that he was trying to say Dunedin. Hilarious!
Thanks to India for removing Y turret and smaller parts of the ship
and sending them to NZ and RN.
It is nice to thwart the scrappers for a change.
The turret and director control tower are displayed at the NZ Devonport naval base.
Thanks for this one as a kiwi myself great to see some of our small navy history included.
What a great little ship.
Saturday! I love these. Drach’s Guides are a joy. Drach, you make my Saturday better! Thanks for all the hard work.
Remember watching the movie Battle of the River Platte as a kid, probably mid-sixties and being amazed.
I think it was from Drach I first heard about Achilles playing herself. Only she, and Audie Murphy ever had that honour.
Only complaint is you didn’t tell us where in NZ we have to go to see the turret! I want to put it on my million item bucket list!
Morning!
It’s the “gate guard,” at Devonport NB, aka HMNZS Philomel (melody and lullaby not included*)
* reference: midsummer night’s dream Act II scene 2.
From Wikipedia, It is now on display at the entrance of Devonport Naval Base in Auckland.
Her fire control tower is also on display along with her y turret. Is really cool to go and see. Then you can go into the naval museum in Auckland and see a piece of armour from HMS New Zealand damage during the Battle of Jutland along with the Māori piupiu (warrior's skirt) and hei-tiki (pendant) worn by her captain during battle. A great display.
Not sure what your criteria are, but you could maybe include Rudy Reyes? :P
I was thrilled to visit her as the INS Delhi while visiting Wellington NZ in about 1970. After I’d mentioned to a host officer that my uncle had been in the RNZN he gave me a full tour of the ship, including a cup of tea in the wardroom.
I’d previously heard about her WW2 adventures so was keen to visit.
Thank you for reviewing one of the few ships of my nations navy
I always felt that for what were supposed to be second line ships the Leanders and Arethusas gave good service during wartime. The designs are pretty heavily criticised these days as they are unfairly compared to ships like the Brooklyns or the Towns but could the Royal Navy have built enough Town class to do everything the Leanders and Arethusas did? Probably not I’d have said.
They probably could have. But if they had tried it, they wouldn't have had anywhere near enough cruiser hulls due to the treaty limits. Considering they were a compromise design, the smaller cruisers did a great job
The Leander class light cruisers, at 7,390 standard tons, were about 2,500 tons lighter than the Brooklyn class, and about 4,250 tons lighter than the Town class. So yes, they were less capable ships, because they were smaller (and slightly older).
Well, the one glaring downside of the lighter cruisers was that they gave up the one single advantage of the treaty system, which was that one could actually know what one was going to be facing. In Fisher's day, the Royal Navy was always aware that the enemy could be just one build season away from invalidating whole classes of existing Royal Navy ships. With the treaties, Britain knew that new ships should be no more than 10,000 tons with 8'' guns, which meant that so long as Britain built a cruiser of 10,000 tons with 8'' guns, it was most likely a match or better than any other cruiser. Well, by building Leanders, the Royal Navy got a handful more hulls in the water, but the hulls were not certain to be capable of handling all likely comers on their own, which was risky. Two Leanders probably could handle most likely comers, but mind that Leanders were not able to be built at double the numbers of Counties, which were ships that could generally be said to be a solid match for most cruisers of the era. Definitely can see why they were controversial even before they were first being launched. Also grateful that they were able to mostly avoid being caught in disadvantageous situations, as a few different choices by some Italian, German, and Japanese commanders could have really changed the score sheet.
@@genericpersonx333 Britain always needed numbers due to its Empire while Germany, Japan and Italy had no such concerns. So while people might complain about the Leanders and other smaller British cruisers, I dont see so many complaining about the equivalent Axis ships. For example, the Konigsbergs of the Kriegsmarine, the Giussano class of the Regia Marina or in fact just about any of the Imperial Japanese Navy's light cruisers all of which, at worst, the Leanders could have taken on with a reasonable chance of success and, at best, would have seriously over matched. The engagement between HMAS Sydney and the Italian cruisers Giovanni dalle Bande Nere and Bartolomeo Colleoni being a good example of this. Comparing them to the Towns is folly on the grounds Britain wasn't going to be fighting herself and it was unlikely theyd be fighting the USA either. Keeping in mind the fact the Leanders were built for showing the flag in peace time and trade protection during the war, there were few enemy light cruisers, who were built as front line ships and in theory had no reason to be so lightly built, who could have stood up to a Brooklyn or a Town either.
They are not really "second line" ships... From Norman Friedmans "British Cruisers Two World Wars and After". The view prevalent at the time was that the larger full 10,000 ton cruisers were to be used for trade protection duties and the smaller cruisers are the ones to be used for fleet work alongside the destroyers.
If anything their doctrine put the larger Towns and Countys as the 2nd line ships and the smaller cruisers of the Leanders, Arethusas and Didos as the ones expected to be with the battlefleet. Of course actual war situation throws a wrench in any sort of planned use case of a certain ship class, It was better to have a ship pressed into a duty it was unsuitable for rather than not have a ship in the first place.
Another excellent video! Thanks! Those Leanders were great little ships. I first read about Achilles as a kid in the Dupuy book "The Naval War in the West: the Raiders" a slim book written for younger readers. My gateway to military history, along with the Landmark series.
A very well traveled ship that filled all her roles admirably.
One of the best parts of these vids is the introduction credits. The part towards towards the end of intro where the twin gun turret fire and a whole bunch of garbage goes flying everywhere from the back blast of the guns. I find it funny every time I watch!!😋😛🤗😍🤩
If I'm not mistaken the tug assisting the Achilles in the photo shown at 1.30 looks to be the Melbourne Steam Tug Tooronga. Therefore she must have visited Melbourne at some stage during her time with the Royal New Zealand Navy. Can you verify this Drach? Also at the age of 15yo I was fortunate to inspect the INS Delhi (Achilles) when she called at Melbourne on her way to visit New Zealand in 1969. I remember being extremely impressed by her immaculate white teak decks and polished brass. Climbing into her twin 6 inch gun A turret was the highlight !!
Yes, she stopped in Melbourne in August 1940, April 1942, December 1942, and January and February 1943.
Achilles, keeping up the fine tradition of Kiwi ships getting missed a lot by the enemy. Wish they hadn't all been sold for scrapping though. :/
We are endlessly lucky, hate to see a ship my familly served on be scrapped.
Wonderful Ship
Indeed!
As INS Delhi, she would serve a stellar career. Many her COs became Admirals, and her gunnery during the 1961 Liberation of Goa (from Portugese rule) was exceptionally accurate and effective. Her Quarterdeck forms part of the "antim pag" or last step that passing out cadets of the National Defence Academy march through.
All in all, a beloved ship in India. The newer INS Delhi (comm. 1997) is much more, shall we say - lethal.
They wanted to try to do a Taranto/Pearl Harbour style attack using HMS Furious and HMS Argus's planes in the attached. Would have been an amazing achievement and a fantastic piece of history had they actually done it in 1918/1919 as planned. War ended before they could try it.
Are you from DFI
My grandad served on her in 1943 along with the HMNZS Gambia
Coffee and ships, always makes for a good morning.
My 2nd cousin TJ Grice is on the war memorial at Takapuna Auckland. As an Able Seaman he worked as part of the communications team on the Archilles. During the Quada Canel Action he replaced another crew member on X-Turret who had fallen ill. The bomb that hit X turret obliterated him and a number of crew were lost. As none of his remains could be found he was declared missing in action. His wife who was looking after 2 small children, had to wait until after the war for him to be declared deceased before a war pension could be paid. Lest we forget,
I have a Malamute that really loves your intro music, she sings to it every time!
I recently found a photograph of the HMS Ajax taken by my grandfather in December 1939 or January 1940 in the port of Rio de Janeiro. The ship was on her way back to Europe and my granddad was going home to Uruguay after a long and eventful journey through Europe in the days immediately before and after the beginning of the war. If that photo is of some interest, and can share it.
I saw her in Bombay in April 1988 (a few years after being scrapped???). The funnel was unmistakable. Moored beside ex Hermes that had originally caught my eye. Unfortunately, I was only passing on a boat so didn't have a chance to investigate.
My Great Grandad served on this ship, and the Ajax as well. We have some parts still at the Devonport naval yard and Auckland Museum.
Another great vid! One small point Dunedin is pronounced "Done-Eden"...
She was the inspiration for my favorite fictional Leander Class ship HMS Andromeda.
Nice one. I got to share this one with the wife and she couldn't roll her eye at me because as her grandfather serve on her during the war .
I really like those really old war movies like Battle of the River Plate & Sink the Bismarck, they still hold up to this day.
The turret gifted back to the NZ Navy sits outside Devonport Naval Base on Auckland's north shore.
I see it from the ferry every time I go past.
Thanks 👍 great work
Cheers Drach! Her Y Turret sits outside Devonport Naval Base :)
My word what a beauty!
Thank you, Drachinifel.
Yup. Starred as self in Battle of the River Platte.
As a sea cadet I spent time in the Achilles barracks at HMNZS Tamaki on courses. A few years later I used to do rounds there as an assistant OOD. I think the Y turret used to be between the two division barracks, all gone now though.
My Grandfather served on the HMNZS Achilles after his "Ride" the HMS Prince of Wales was sunk by the Japanese. Good thing he got off at Singapore beforehand. He told me he saw the Nukes dropped on Japan. He also said he was able to lie about his age because he was a big farm boy! he was just 15.
Great video Drac, on what has to be the most famous of the first wave Leanders (unless you count Ajax in that Diamond camouflage pattern!), but how about a video on her half sister, the HMAS Hobart, we all hear about her sisters Sydney, sunk by the Kormoran, and Perth, sunk in Sunda Strait, but Hobart survived the war and had a fairly lively time, yet she gets overshined by her sisters and half sisters.
I never realised she played herself in the film, I always thought she played achilies. Always learning something.
She did play the Achillies, that was her name at the time of the battle. Though she was part of the Inian navy by then and renamed Delhi.
I went to Sea Cadets in Auckland New Zealand in the 80s It was TS Achillies in Okahu Bay ,thats what we were named after ,there was a time before it got scrapped to turn it into a Museam and get it up Meola creek so its by the other War stuff at nearby MOTAT museam
Thank you for this bit of Kiwi history
thanks Drach
A very good looking ship indeed !
Archilles visited Wellington about 1970.
Dear Sir, I am so impressed with your knowledge and also the knowledge of your communities questions of you. I enjoy every minute watching/ listening to your answers, I recently watched you “guest starring” on Animarchy History and I applaud you for being such a gracious guest. The Anime ladies were nice, but the host was, overselling the goods…. Tacky is a kind word…. However …. I learned a lot and it got me interested in, and watched his complete video about Hans Jocahim Marseille..holy cow! Very impressed…. I also agree with you that the Anime HMS Hood was the best one. Thank you for being you. Hope you get this, and thank you for your time, Regards, Corporal Stone, USMC 1986-1990, Semper Fi
Hi drach, I've heard that towards the end of ww1 the Royal Navy had an idea to launch air attacks on the High Seas Fleet. If this is so, what was the objective of such a plan? Surely the available aircraft wouldn't be able to carry munitions capable of sinking a capital ship. Was it to mildly irritate the Germans enough until they came out to play? Or to go after their logistical supplies?
Torpedo bombers existed in 1918.
They wanted to try to do a Taranto/Pearl Harbour style attack using HMS Furious and HMS Argus's planes in the attached. Would have been an amazing achievement and a fantastic piece of history had they actually done it in 1918/1919 as planned. War ended before they could try it.
And they were after the German battlecruisers and battleships. Nothing else.
@@CharlesStearman I know the concept did, but the numbers, pilots, doctrine etc?
I love these typy of videos.
Thanks for the video. A relative of mine served on this ship in ww2. Is great to have some more details on the ship's service. I have some document from when he signed on and it has his rank as "Bugle boy". That amuses me.
My grandfather was on the Achilles during WW2 too, I think he was in communications.
What a great channel. I'm amazed that he does not have 1 mil subscribers.
"She would receive some 20mm Oerlikons." Drach says this so much it's becoming his catchphrase!
Given her general near imperviousness to damage, one wonders if she had some New Zealand artifact of protective power, in the manner of HMS New Zealand.
...just the inborn aura of angry Kiwis.
My Uncle William Carter served aboard Achilles during the battle of the river plate.
Hi,could the ship behind her be the Andrea Dora?the funnel looks familiar.
Yes I thought so too. Be interesting to know.
I can only presume that HMNZS Achilles appears on my TH-cam,because at some time in the past, I mentioned; somewhere on the web; that my grandfather came out of the Durham pits to serve as leading stoker on HMS Achilles in WW1.
First. Also, finally much-deserved attention for a River plate legend!
Wrath filled Achilles...
Iliad reference. Nice!
Hello Drach Have you ever done a video on the disaster on the Goodwin Sands in 1703 1,900 men and 13 vessels were lost. I would like to learn more
Y turret is still on display today at the main gates of Devonport Naval Base (RNZN)
Never heard Dunedin pronounced like that before.... Only ever heard it pronounced phonetically DoneEden
Dune (like the novel) - Din (as in the last name of Kipling's heroic water bearer (He- "Do you like Kipling?" She - blushing ang giggling - "I don't know, I've never tried it that way")
@@colbeausabre8842 Not sure about the ship but Dunedin the city in NZ is three syllables. Dun (rhymes with pun) e (just say the letter e) din (rhymes with pin). That's what the locals say and I lived there for a decade. To quote wikipedia, " Its name comes from Dùn Èideann, the Scottish Gaelic name for Edinburgh, the capital of Scotland." And I have no idea how that might be pronounced.
I had no idea her y turret was saved, guess I'll have to go see it when I'm in Auckland in a few days
Got a photo of myself in front of Y Turret at Devonport Auckland.
Achilles being scraped was a crime new Zealand should of brought her and made her a museum ship in Devon port
I'm pretty sure that Dunedin is pronounced dunn-eden, not like one of Aragorn's Rangers of the North.
So that was the original ship in the movie!
Please may we have more about the odd naval ships like gunboats, monitors, and armed trawlers.
Interesting
New ship on WoWarships, HMAS Brisbane. Worth a look, maybe?
Thank you. Request review the Dido class light cruisers, with particular emphasis on HMS DIADEM which became PNS BABUR. Regards
Must not forget HMNZS Leander her sister ship also very much involved in the Pacific
I have seen Y turret as a base guard in Auckland "I think", it is a shame that more navy bases didn't do that sort of thing.
Could you do a vid on hms pursuer (the carrier)?
Interested to see if you can find more info than I can. Slim pickings out there.
6:46 good on them.
Kia Kaha !!!
It's "Dunedin" - Dun as in Dunny and Eden as in the garden of...
As an engineer I'm sure you will enjoy this question. I have tried to explain to my two sons what a sea chest is on a ship could you explain that briefly and what it does?
@*Uncle Joe* Opening the door allows you in to Davy Jones locker.
More Antipodean stuff please!! 😃
No mention of her being the first RN cruiser to have Fire Control Radar (a NZ design)
Such a pity she wasn't saved as a museum ship in NZ
That sentiment applies to a lot of other RN and Commonwealth ships, unfortunately.
When were you thinking the video on the Delhi be coming?
Sounds like she served well.
impressive size.
i always thought it was 1 heavy and 2 LIGHT cruisers chasing the german battle cruiser
this one looks like a solid cruiser, not light cruiser
Would it have been better to remove Y turret to add the quad Pom Pom? For stability reasons less weight high up?
No - X turret was the higher of the two after turrets. In order from bow to stern A-B-X-Y, So far as I know, the RN never had a Z turret, so Y was the aftermost. It also didn't use the letter C, so even though the five turret Dido class had its third turret forward, it was designated as P. Prior to this, P and Q had been reserved for midships turrets. Seven turreted HMS Agincourt totally broke with tradition, her turrets were designated by days of the week.
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4:21 I see a 40 mm Bofors in a Mark V twin mounting, which is weird because I could’ve sworn the only Bofors she received were single mountings.
Blew the Turret roof off ? How many KIA Tars ?
The US title of the 1956 film with this ship was: "Pursuit of the Graf Spee.'' Great picture. Didn't recognize it by its UK/Commonwealth title.
I guess the name change was because the least educated American with the price of a ticket would be expecting a fun comedy about a crockery fight by a river.