Attalus Priscus, who rebelld against Honorius with a support of Alaric in 409, was also a pagan and probably was the last non-Christian who hold an imperial title. But Attalus, unlike emperor Julian, was a political opportunist who didn't mind (even if it was insincere) baptizing himself in the Arian rite to gain political support from the Visigoths.
Inspired by your work I wrote a bit the other day about the decline of quality and craftsmanship in Roman Art, without your great insights and research, I wouldn’t be able to have as much conviction on my viewpoint and frame! Thank you! I absolutely adore the videos, though the topic is a tragic one, and I don’t miss any
Majorian, perhaps you could make a video on Cola di Rienzo's reestablisment of the Roman Republic and constitution back in the 1300s (he even became tribune). He was quite a succesful leader and thought of himself as quite literally refounding Rome. Sadly he got assasinated by the Vatican but he's a very interesting figure.
Arnold of Brescia did something remarkably similar to Cola di Rienzo, but two centuries earlier. He started out as a heretical preacher who initially campaigned for the clergy to renounce their wealth and property and live the Apostles, but then joined forces with a rebel faction in Rome actually succeeded in kicking the Pope out of the city and making it a Commune modelled on the ancient Roman republic for ten years. But in 1155, Pope Hadrian IV allied with Emperor Frederick Barbarossa to take the city back, and Arnold was hanged as a rebel.
Assassinated by the Vatican ? . But anyway , it's interesting to imagine what could have happend if he managed to unify Italy. Maybe a a second Roman republic.
It only did paganism survive in this period, but it also survived well into the Middle Ages among the Maniots of southern Greece. It died out there in the tenth century
Hey Maioranus, Congrats! Your videos are amazing. I have enjoyed every one of them, and they evidently show your deep knowledge and sense of passion on everything related to the Late Roman Empire. It would have been indeed a fascinating period to live in. On that note, I have a suggestion. Why don’t you make a video on the linguistic state of affairs at the time and area in question? How far removed was the spoken Latin language from its previous classical standards? How close was it from breaking off into the modern Romance languages? What about the minority languages- Gaulish, Etruscan, etc.? Had they gone extinct at this point? Was the Greek spoken on the East intelligible to the Greek from today?
The conflict between Christianity and the old religion was very political. The old Roman aristocracy and Senate were very strong upholders of the old tradition and the old class hierarchy, and thus a bastion of the old religion. While the Emperors were Christian. By banning Paganism, the Emperors were hitting hard at their political rivals in the Senate. Note: the constant dispute over the Altar of Nike in the Roman Senate.
The return happened already centuries ago as Athenea reclaimed her inheritance, which was what Prometheus knew but would not tell. It's not about worshiping this or that Patriarchal god (Zeus = Yaweh, no big difference) but about something else and much more fundamental. Hypathia would be proud of us.
He's great, isn't he? I wasn't much of a Roman nerd, and I kind of had to become one, for I was writing a book that was passionately burning in my heart. Though, I need to find a publisher.
I was totally unaware of all this. As you say, I was under the illusion that all tolerance ended with the death of Julian and the adven of Theodosius. Glad that you made this video.
Yes. There are ecclesiastical texts complaining that certain villagers in Greece refused to get baptised and "worshipped idols" or "worshipped the devil" even in 11th century.
ancient greek religion ia alive and well, it was recognized legally by greece in 2016 as a known religion. there are active temples and places of worship around the world, in addition rome/italy has reinstituted various roman temples for worship and prayer, for the roman polytheists, paganism is alive and well and growing.
If the Roman pagans are to survive, they needed to change. They needed to adapt. And the first thing they needed to come to realize is that as long as they believed in their own deities, they needed no images of their deities to worship. Just as doubt can kill people, belief can empowered people to do things they thought they cannot. So as long as they believed in their deities, they can won for their rights and tolerance. Also, this video shown that not everyone at that time think alike. Many peoples have their own beliefs and ideas because not everyone in the Roman Empire is Christians and religious tolerance was a thing at certain point in time.
According to Peter Brown that did occur, as pagans had seen so many idols destroyed or stolen without consequence, and they shifted their focus from images to the stars, where the Gods and their stories could reign unmarred by Christian hands.
The Roman gov started forcing christianity on people, and persecuting pagans. If the most powerful governments force a religion on people, then eventually (even if it takes a few generations), everyone will have to obey or be killed off. A similar thing happened with Islam and the Arab kings forcing rules of islam on those they conquered. That's why christianity and islam are the largest religions in the modern day.
They were still gradually overrun as each new generation took over from the last. They didn't have organised dogma any longer nor any infrastructure to channel religious zeal into missionary efforts, apologetics, and other behaviours that the "world" religions still around today employed in those times. @@lerneanlion
I will be honest: one of my favorites Imperatores is Flavius Iulianus, and of course I've read something about Illus and the support who he received from pagans. But of course, also Odoacer got the support of many pagans when he took control over Italy. Currently I am also a philopagan in my country, and a very friendly romaner. GRATIAS TIBI AGO AMICO, DE LA RES PUBLICA DOMINICANA, ET BENE VALETE.
I'm from India, overwhelmed to see the similarity of our fate with erstwhile Roman empire. Like Roman Empire,our beloved country divided into India( Western Roman Empire) and Pakistan ( Eastern Roman Empire) with India being still Mix religious and harmonical and Pakistan having important hotspots of Hindu civilization & its development is muslim absolutist state. See the fate, like Western Roman Empire, we're having increasing population which subscribes to non-native religious worldview and hates hindu roots & character of the land...divide is increasing. Sad for the Motherland & Civilization .🗿
The only concrete possibility of paganism to survive was of Julian to have a long reign. Sadly most of the militant pagans were stunnborn reactionaries of the senatorial class that wanted to keep an elitist paganism and refused to "lowered" it by making it more accessible to people without high education, to the point some of them even rejected the reformation ideas of Julian of a universal pagan church similar to the Christian one.
On the subject of myths of the Roman Empire I think one is the historical view of the Catholic Church, that it was the first church from which others later split being the most obvious. Made me wonder what the earliest reference is to Rome having primacy over other churches and the oldest signs of a split between Eastern and Western Roman Christianity.
Christianity was unified and organized and had common goal while pagans had different religions and not organized at all and had no common goal The third century crisis gave christianity a boost and the attempts of late Roman emperors like Diocletian to erase Christianity with force backfired on the emperors The Roman empire was divided socially and culturally way before Christianity
people commenting about how its interesting that paganism survived years after julian. Traditional paganism is alive and well in modern day. it never died, it simply left the stage of dominant religions, greek polytheism or ethnic hellenic religion was recognized legally by greece in 2016, italy is currently resurrecting inactive temples for roman polytheism, where people still practice and worship roman gods. in Norway, they rebuilt a temple about 6yrs ago for the norse gods, where norse pagans worship and pray to their gods. Hinduism is one of the oldest surviving relgion of paganism. this belief that it died is false, it simply significantly lowered its numbers due to wars, violent conversions, influence and assimilition for survival. however, in modern day traditional paganism/polytheism meaning cultural pagan religions with standards, values and morals are increasing in numbers. This is seperate from what paganism is usually summed up to be with wiccans, satanists, crystal lovers etc. that is considered to fall under neopaganism a distorted self made belief system with no set standards to follow. which is the opposite of traditional paganism and abrahamic beliefs. unfortunetly often times the majority puts both in the same catogory.
Use of AI generated images really brings old history to life. Often history old as times of Roman Empire looks like as just a simple stories, but photorealistic imagery brings back to reality, as it truly was a real thing.
Nope ... its Theodosius I when he made Christianity the Official State Religion of the Roman Empire Remember Theodosius predecessor majority of them are Christian Emperor but they never Declare Christianity the Official State Religion of the Empire even Constantine I , by the time of Justinian I Christians are Majority in Both Former Western Roman and Eastern Roman and Neighboring Foreign Countries is also becoming Christianize Kingdoms. Axumite Empire ( Which later Becomes Ethopian Empire), Arcasid Kingdom of Armenia,Ghanassids,the Arian Christians Kingdom of Vandals , Both Arian Gothic Kingdoms of Italy & Hispania , Arian Kingdom of Burgundia, Berbers Kingdom in Africa are also becomes Christians so Paganism in the time of Justinians I in Roman Empire are Dead there is no need to final nail to Coffin Pagans in Roman Empire is extremely Few maybe some Few Thousand against Hunderd- Thousand Christians Roman theres no Chance of Pagans Rivival in Roman Empire , Monotheism in 6th Century and Preceeding Centuries in The Mediteranean Europe to North Africa & into Middle East is very prevelant just look at Sassanid Persia they are not Abrahamic Religion Adherents but still they are considered one of the Monotheist( Zoroastrianism) in that time.
A lot of the errors come from self congratulatory polemics by later christians. A classic example of this i saw was the uncritical assurtion that mystery cults didnt have the complex philosophy or theology of christianity. It didnt seem to occur the author that we may simply not have them.
I think, looking back it would seem that Christianity is the natural conclusion to platonic philosophy, and Neoplatonic paganism. Its sad to see the persecution of pagans, but Honestly, out of all the barrowing that Rome did when it came to culture and religions, I'd say that Christianity is a Roman original and a thoroughly Roman Religion. Let me explain. Christianity was founded in Judea, yes, a Roman Province, at the time, meaning it was part of The Empire. As well, the entire new testament was originally written in Koine Greek, not hebrew, or Aramaic, despite that being the language that Jesus was thought to have spoken. And very quickly, the Christian religion went from a heretical Jewish sect, to a Gentile Religion, really within a generation of the original jewish Apostles. This added onto the fact that Christianity barrowed and used a lot of the same terms, and philosophy that the Romans and Greeks had used, which makes sense since Judea and Egypt were both hellenized by the time of Jesus. Such as referring to Jesus as the Logos, equating him to The Logos found in Stoic philosophy, and they equated The Trinity to be the Platonic, One. The Good, The Monad, if you will. However instead of there being a potentially infinite amount of Persons and divinities in the intelligible realms between The One and us here in the Sub-Lunar realm, they proclaimed that there are only 3 persons, and 1 mediator between God, (The One) and Man, that being The Incarnate Logos, Jesus. Thats why I believe the Original Roman and Greek Religions lived on within Christianity.
Christianity is a filth filled perversion of Neoplatonism. It glorifies the One to the point they see the World in Monological terms, there is only ever One answer to explain all these truths The Universe as we know it has never existed in Monologue, it creates itself through the Dialogue of the One becoming Many and the Many becoming One. The Universe needs both Dissemination and Order to Create itself, if you glorify One over the Many then your perspective gets twisted. For example, because of Christianity it is a common philosophical question to ask "Do we have Fate or Free-will", the question is posed expecting a Monological answer, it can only be One. Either God, the Universe, is guiding all things or I am guiding myself in all things. Rather it is clearly both, we all have our own Fates that are forcing our own Free-will into existence. God exists not as a Monological being, but as a Dialogue between your split part and the part that exists in the Universe outside you.
I also would add that Christianity (mostly Catholicism) during its history incorporated many elements of the pre-Christian traditions in Europe, becoming therefore very different from its original form and very close to the European spirit.
Tough lack. Indoeuropean paganism is not very different from Judaism (incl. Christianity and Islam): both are Patriarchal religions and the age of Patriarchy is over. Prometheus (who is the same as Loki and surely also the same as the pre-Indoeuropean dragon-God Sugaar) knew who would, among his children, dethrone Zeus but the creator of Humanity would not speak (and that's why Zeus tortured him). In hindsight that victorious child was clearly Athenea, Yaweh was just an orientalizing mutation of Zeus, one that made him more powerful for some time but could not in the long run achieve victory against destiny. All hail the mighty headache!
@@pandakicker1 - Yeah gods are ideas, we make them happen, what doesn't mean they are powerless as long as they have followers, that's what a "godform" is: an idea that lives on its own, like money or property.
@@LuisAldamiz Yahveh has to nothing to do with Zeus. Totally different deities. And paganism has nothing to do with judaism. Judaism has holy books, paganism does not. Judaism forbids the depiction of the devine in art, paganism uses imagery in worshipping (Orthodox and Catholic christians do too because they took that from pagans). Judaism declares there is only one true god, all other gods are fake, paganism accepts many different gods. You are confused.
@@locusta-bw2vd - Yaweh = El. The Bible equals both all the time because the first 2 books are doubly written by Judeans (Southern Hebrews), who used Yaweh, and Israelites (Northern Hebrews), who used El or even the plural elohim ("the gods"). This implies a cultural division before the exile to Babylon and much greater general Canaanite standarization in the North, because their god/gods is indistinct from those of the Phoenicians. Who is El (Arabic: Allah)? The god of the sky and supreme god of the Canaanite pantheon. Sure it's slightly different from the Indoeuropean theology but only because of culture and language: in terms of synchretism they are one and the same. Paganism... or rather Polytheism has everything to do with Judaism: not just El-Yaweh is very clearly the same as El of the Northern Canaanites (Phoenicians) and to the "Pagan" Allah of Arabs, a closely related ethnicity, but the usage of "elohim" is what it seems ("the gods") and not, as Monotheistic fanatics claim often, a honorary term for the single god. Furthermore Judaism also has legacy of Egyptian polytheism (and not of the Atenite Solar-monotheistic heresy), specifically from the chief god of the Egyptians Amen or Amun, whose name is invoked by Jews and Christians all the time unbeknown to them of the ancestral meaning. This is because Moses was almost certainly the usurper Pharaoh Amenmesse (Amen-Moseh), who seems to have ended up refugeed in Sinai and arming the Canaanite slaves and inspiring on them a new religion based on Egyptian-Canaanite synchretism and, yes, quite apparently a monotheistic focus (although it's unclear if that monotheism was fully developed early or if it was Zoroastrian influence in the Babylonian captivity or a mix of both). So Yaweh is not just, very clearly, El of the Caaanites but also at least partly Amen of the Egyptians as well. It is probably from the Egyptian side where the concept of creator god comes and in fact the Biblical story of creation is almost literally copied from the Egyptian one, the one by Ptah, god of crafts. There is a difference though, while in the priest-dominated Hebrew tradition Yaweh creates with the word (is the word even, as that is the first thing that the Bible says: "at the beginning it was the word", i.e. "I'm gonna tell you a story, the story, what has been passed orally by many generations"), while Ptah creats by the heart and only later uses the word or tongue to name what has been already created. This is surely because Egyptians had this dual notion of Sun = King = willpower and Moon = priests = consciousness, while the Hebrews seem dominated by the priests only. Even the Christian Trinity may have some Egyptian roots, as Amen, Ra and Ptah are claimed to be one: "All gods are three: Amun, Re and Ptah, whom none equals. He who hides his name as Amun, he appears to the face as Re, his body is Ptah".
When polytheistic aristocratic power and upper institutions were depleted of their wealth and political agency because of the third century crisis, this left them unable to compete with a church which fed off of this decline and had already been growing for two centuries. Parable of the mustard seed
some errors in the video I feel. Greek Sage Thales 600bc "Love your fellow human even if this means hurting yourself" Professor of theology Fr George Metallenos in his book "Pagan Hellenism or Greek Orthodoxy?" backs up what many historians and researchers say that Ancient Greeks were not pagan but that Orthodoxy is ancient Greek. "Christianity is a spiritual continuation of Hellenism, in almost everything" "The ancient Greeks were not pagans. They did not worship idols, but personified ideas and values" "The so-called gods of Olympus were believed to be all children of the one and only god, Zeus, and constituted a kind of numerous Holy Family or eleven (+1) Saints." The temples named after Olympians are no different than Orthodox temples named after saints. Greece Archbishop Christodoulos said "Early Greek Christians blessed and honored the Ancient Greek temples,... by recycling the materials (stones and dirt) from the Ancient Greek Temples to build Christian temples. The origin of the world Paganism is a derogatory term meaning rustic people or country people and not meaning to believe in many Gods. But the meaning changed which was used just like how protestants think Catholics or Orthodox having saints is paganism to also assume saints are worshiped like Gods. It seems to be a power struggle. Their is not much difference from the the ancient Greek views and Olympians to Christianity when it started but Christianity changed over time. Professor of theology Luke Filis "the language of the Greek "New Testament" comes linguistically and ideologically from the venue of Greek thinking and intellect and it is composed in order to be a complete ideology, with the pure Greek way of wording" & how the Greek ideas and words of that Jesus used, got completely twisted throughout the years to represent something different and foreign to the original meaning and purpose." Historian Fr. George Metallinos states about the three great hierarchs: Basil the Great, Gregory the Theologian and John Chrysostom view that "Hellenism is the capital of Orthodoxy" (Orthodoxy meaning Christianity) in his book "Pagan Hellenism or Greek Orthodoxy?" "That Christianity is a spiritual continuation of Hellenism, in almost everything (terminology, symbols, ritual, etc.) and the Hebrew alleloujah is (both literally and etymologically) the sequence from Zeus to Jesus" Serbian Orthodox Theology states "The Christian “reception” of Hellenism is the reason, important at least as much as it is neglected" "The Hellenistic age forms the universally normative ideal of all-encompasing education" Church father Clement of Alexandria "why should I linger over the barbarians, when I can adduce the Greeks...holy Apostle Paul says, preserving the prophetic and truly ancient secret from which the teachings that were good were derived by the Greeks: Howbeit we speak wisdom among them who are perfect" and many more that I did not state. bible omitted passage John 12:23 "complete" passage which the church has when Greeks see Christ which is "The hour is fulfilled that the Son of Man should be glorified. For Greece alone begets man, a heavenly plant, and a divine plant, a divine system, a science that is aptly understood." also Clement of Alexandria which St. Nectario agrees with when he says in Stromata book 6:5= "Apostle Paul will show, saying: "Take also the Hellenic books, read the Sibyl (prophecy over 13,000 years ago), how it is shown that God is one (they believed in 1 God), and how the future is indicated (they prophesied 1st and others changed it). Or as other translate to sum it up as "you will find our Lord Jesus Christ written more clearly by the Greeks" St. Catherine regarding Apollo's profecy of Christ. Emperor Constantine affirming Apollo's message from Sibyl prophecy and 2nd coming but would not speak since the emperor was afraid of the church. "St. Athanasios of Alexandria affirms that the Greek Sibyl's prophecy of Christ is authentic" Church father Bishop Dorotheos of 3rd century AD said all the majority of mothers that are known of Christ's disciples (no record of Simon & Judas) had Ancient Greek names. fathers of Christ's disciples as well with Ancient Greek names which St. John & St. James the Apostles father name was Zebedeos (Ζεβ+εδαίος from Zeus+Ideal)." One does not have a name praising the other religions God. But go figure when a 6000 years old place called GaZA which in Greek is Ga=land Za=Zeus. Side note Greek history is heavily undermined, destroyed, and hidden. like the 7,000 years old tablet of Dispilio which is the oldest in the world yet neglected and not highlighted for political reason. Or the archaeologists beaten up for showing Human Skulls in Greece over 700,000 years ago HALKIDIKI: Petralona cave. And many others. History is a can of worms and everyone is afraid to touch it.
In the 8th century in the Peleponese, there was a group of Maniotes, who are considered the last pagan Greeks. Under Constantine VII, they were called "idolatrous Hellenes" by the Greek speaking, Christian "Romans" of the empire.
@@arnorrian1 what Bullshits are you Talking about Wait are you one of those Ignorant Fellows who mis-interpret Iconography as worhips of Idols & the Trinity as Paganism Nahhh... im telling you Boy Icons in Christianity is not Form of Paganism we do not worships those Pictures or Statues its just how we remember the Holy Ones( Im Catholics ) like how you Kept Pictures of your Deceases Relatives ( its just Remembrance things ) and the Trinity thing is just Representation of Christ Nature at one Point in the beginning Christ is the "All Mighty God"and Then when Christ Manifested his power in the World Christ is the "Holy Spirits" and when Christ Exist in the World as living Creature Christ is "the Mortal man" but Christ is still the One theres no Paganism in Christianity ( Catholics & Eastern Orthodox & Other Christian Denomination )You are just Ignorant .
Living is a terminal condition and all good things must come to an end. In that sense, and that sense alone the fall of the Roman empire is as inevitable of as the fall of any other empire that has ever existed, exists now or will exist in the future. So perhaps, let us turn it around... at which points before the 5th century could Rome have fallen earlier? And could we see the end of the Roman republic as a _fall_ into empire?
It should be stated that most of the writings about late roman history were written by Christian sources who were certainly biased and chose to frame event in a way that favored their beliefs such as that it was inevitable that Christianity was going to take over when this is nonsense history isn't something that was set in stone it could have gone any number of different ways its very easy for the winners to proclaim bold and ridiculous ideas such as manifest destiny but a scholar should know better.
I would say that Zeno's reign was a tumultuous time for the ERE, but one that didn't really replicate itself. The WRE had far more usurpers and instability, after all they had 4 coups in a short period of time that ended with the end of the WRE. Usurpations were not unheard of in Rome even at its peak, and the ERE wouldn't get a similar period of instability until the final Roman-Sassanid War.
I think I need some sources to support the number of people who were "pagan" or Christian. I think it's also worth noting that lumping all "pagans" together isn't really historically accurate. These weren't unified religions. Rome was a society of many religions. Even adherents to Roman religious cults didn't practice the same "religion" in terms of how we think of religion today. The key issue, moreover, is the preference among Roman elites for Platonic worldviews. Christianity in many ways gave a doctrine and religious narrative to the divine concepts presented in Platonic philosophy, which meant it gained considerable sway over the educated elites that already favored Platonism.
I do think it’s a bit unfair to describe so many of the Christian emperors as fanatical and intolerant, when even Theodosius didn’t outlaw it entirely, but this was a fascinating look nonetheless. While it’s true that paganism lasted longer than is traditionally portrayed, it’s also rather interesting just how quickly it fell to irrelevancy. 150 years is really not a very long time in terms of continent-spanning religions, and it makes me wonder if there were still large pockets of pagans in the western provinces under the subsequent Frankish and Gothic kingdoms for decades or even centuries after the fall of the west.
It isn't at all. Christian emperors were fanatical and intolerant, specially Theodosius and most of his dynasty. The byzantines earned their destiny eventually.
Kinda outside the scope of the video, but everything presented here is also consistent with arguments that even the Eastern Empire didn't conceive of itself as explicitly and uniquely Christian until Justinian, and the whole byzantine political theology develops fully after him.
Great stuff man can we get a video and Theodoric the great and his golden age?I think that’s a great story where he pretty much was a Roman emperor and all but name.
Or Constantine declared Cristian religion as only allowed in the Rome. Edict was sign by Constantine and Licinius. It was law about tolerance and not the first one. Two years earlier, 311. Galerius issued Edict of Serdica.
You should really stop using the term "Paganism." The Romans never actually called themselves Pagans. Paganism was a term invented by the Christians to lump everyone together who wasn't Christian or Jewish into a single group. However, Paganism was not a single religion. It was many different religions. The main religion of the Classical Roman Empire was called Hellenism which focused on the worship of Jupiter, Apollo, Dionysus, etc. However, there were other Religions as well throughout the empire. Mithraism was very popular especially in the late Roman empire as well as Kemetism. Isis worship was popular with women. There was Zoroastrianism in the East and Druidism in the North. There were many other smaller religions and cults that thrived due to the general religious tolerance of the Roman empire before the rise of the Christian zealots.
@@gofish7388Christians was intolerant and Christianity was based on a real historical figure and Christianity was young compared to Judaism and because of that the Romans and the polytheist dont really like Christianity. Christianity were the exception not the norm. Note: im not saying these action were justified, the point of this comment was to point out the reason why Christian was persecuted and keep in mind that most of the time this violence was not sponsored by the government
It's definitely not Christian in any way and it thrived in a Pagan context. Even if I generally dislike Plato, it's clear that the totalitarianism of Christianity would hardly have allowed someone like him to live, let alone teach and write, even if, because of historical circumstances, Christians actually adopted him as intellectual pet.
As has been rightly stated in other comments, there is no such thing as paganism. An -ism suggests coordination. Julian had an idea of creating a pagan church! But was never able to implement it. There was a mass of various cults, but no coordinating principle. You might find interesting a book The Darkening Age By Catherine Nixey, about how Christians sought to destroy pagan practices. Pagan practices have never gone away. Gregory of Tours reports people offering annual sacrifices to the gods of a Swiss lake for example in the late sixth century.
Best TH-cam channel and honest channel we were always taught how Jews , arabs( Rashiduns,ummayeds,abbasids) ,turks (seljuks and ottomans), Germanics(visagoths,ostrogoths ,vandals,franks),Persians(Parthians and sassanids) and huns destroy Roman empire from outside which they indeed did their part but we were never told about the crimes of Christianity how it destroy roman civilization internally and divided it forever .Lesson to learn is that a relegion can change whole civilization indeed christian romans were totally different from Pagan romans they completely forget about traditions of their ancestors and accept a jewish sect (Christianity) and give those popes and priest high authority over themselves and start accepting their orders as slaves .I can't even imagine how many pagans lost their lives during their lands were occupied by relegiously zealous christians that doesn't hesitate to kill any non christian.All great heros where pagans in roman empires and paganism was the thing that made romans proud of their roman empire but when so called christians came they start loving jewish civilization and Theodosis was the one who start oppressive policies against pagans and From here after dark days for romans began as christians became dominant in positions
Oh, calm down. I can still watch and disagree with him on a lot of things. I may be a die-hard Christian, but I do believe that the pagan temples shouldn't have all been demolished, especially as the Pantheon is now St. Mary's Cathedral in Rome.
Paganists crucified Jesus then hijacked Christianity, injected it with the false idolatrous Babylonian polytheistic trinity. Only Yahshua saves. Repent!
@LuisAldamiz What? I can watch and still have some disagreements. But I do agree that many Christians themselves were irrational, especially with each other. That's how the 30 years war started.
Illus is not well known. He was a rebel during the reign of Zeno. I think he supported the usurper Basiliscus, the former commander of the Eastern part of the failed invasion of the Vandal kingdom. He had to hide in a church from the angry mob when he returned but bounced back as emperor, only to be removed again by Zeno after moving towards Monophysitism, which alienated majority in Constantinople.
I think you could somehow visualise those relations as its hard to remember and not confuse those names :/ . However, good and inveresting video anyway.
The dividing line between Christianity and the old religion (Pagan) was a very thin line. A lot of old Pagan gods and minor spirits were just renamed and re-branded as new Saints, and worship continued as before.
@@CrippieMannster And what are those oral traditions about? We know that early Christians did not celebrate Christmas, and that we do not even know what date Jesus was born on. We know that 25. December was some pagan Roman celebration, which was replaced by Christmas. There are other such examples. I do not want to get into a big discussion here on youtube.
As a Christian I strongly disapprove what the Eastern Roman Emperors behaved. Justinian made similar policies, he closed the last Academies of Athens, letting the disciples no where to go… unless they try east, to the court of Shahanshah Khosrow I , he was revered as the Philosopher King by these medieval Athenians. In terms of religious matters, Justinian was a jerk, like all eastern Emperors after Constantinus
As ever, well done .. but still a large number of assumptions warp the foundational notions of the presentation. The idea that Paganism - the forms of worship favoured in the countryside - coughed, genteelly, and faded away from civilised city life is found nowhere in the Christian texts from those times. Indeed the very fact that Eastern emperors found it necessary - yes, necessary - to reinstate the pagan emperors' repressive measures against the Christians but then turned against the idol-worshippers and their gods = ethnic polytheism (a Hellene, a heathen, etc) speaks volumes. Extending from animal sacrifice to astrology to witch-doctoring to theology to legal theory to superstition to poetic mysticism to (whatever), Paganism in the later years of the Roman Empire and into the rule of Byzantium and the Arabs covered a vast array of beliefs, practices, doctrines, and mythologies. From Claudius Claudianus, Nonnus of Panopolis, and Messius Phoebus Severus to Salusitus of Emesa, Marinus of Neapolis and Proclus Lycus, to Isidore of Alexandria, Ammionius Hermiae and Simplicius of Cilicia .. the line between Neoplatonist pagans (those who held onto the pagan 'rites') and Neoplatonic Christians (who favoured or at least liked the mystical aspects of the God of the 'Christians') was slight. After Justinian, and his reconquest, the Rome that had so richly imbibed such Neoplatonic fancies was largely history - for monks and scholars to consider; leaving for the most part only the superstitions .. alive and bewildering many today, touching wood, esoteric 'knowledge', cunning astrology, witch doctor-ery, alternative lifestyles, et al. ;o)
I think AI art is not adequate to an history channel yet, it will mess up relevant visual information and is full of bad stereotypes, someone distracted could imagine they are made accurate to the period. For clarity fewer selected images could do a better job... but ofc, if its something you can get an extra money with it, who am i to judge. GJ anyway, its an interesting topic.
Paganism was dying already even after the fall of the western Roman empire half the population was pagan and British islands were pagan when Rome left it in 410 Christianity just needed time to take control of Europe
yes, the late roman empire is utterly fascinating. but consider this: paganism never went away AT ALL when Christianity becomes popular enough to become a state religion it has itself morphed away from Christ and become pagan in its own way so paganism never left Rome, it merely changed trappings of course my view is founded on the radical assumption that Christianity is true and the Bible the word of God, so when Jesus said strait is the gate, narrow the way and FEW there are who find it this rules out the notion that there ever was any such thing as a Christian nation for there never was. It is all in the Bible what you believe is none of my business, i just put this forth for your perusal and consideration
Hey, I'm not entirely sure if it's just me being inable to recognise your voice when you are speaking German but I think the channel "Zeitlose Geschichte" is coppying your videos
Niche topics indeed. Perhaps then time comes when it seems fit. Interesting, compelling, thought provoking, and even intriguing to say the least is this bit of newer information to some who would appreciate learning. Hiding the truth is the past amongst power. Definitely adds validity to overlooked perspective of the narrative of how a time-contemporary fugitive-exile, equivalent to the late 20th century terrorist known as the "Uni-bomber," was author to the Biblical, "Book of Revelations."
How? Because Judea didn't accept Jesus Christ, so that's an inaccurate statement. No, the Christians didn't destroy Rome, if that's the case than the Eastern Roman Empire wouldn't last another Thousand Years and it wouldn't be the Holy Roman Empire trying to rebuild the Western Empire. Christianity literally formed the Western civilization after the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
I was thinking the same, they took over media and trying to take control over people in power and big corporations, while 90% of people do not support them. They know what they are doing, trying to convert population by restricting freedom of speech because they know otherwise they would not have a chance.
Nope. How? Wokeism is a (partly engineered) result of Capitalist decodification and has little chances of success, especially on the Trans issue, because it has gone beyond reason. Christianity was a totalitarian single party (church) regime with a political comissary or several in every neighborhood, extracting information via confesion and enforcing strict adherence to the dogma via inquistorial means. Capitalist decodification ended Christianity rightly (used it, abused it, corrupted it and threw it to the dust bin of history) and there's no way, no matter what reactionaries try, to restore it ever again (same applies to all comparable religions like Islam, Hinduism, etc.)
Yes, it is important to know that all the early Socal Justice pioneers were Christians doing Social Justice in the name of Christianity. They couldn't get it into law because of the Government's Church/State separation. So the removed the religion from their Social Justice beliefs and got it into law. So it is the Child of Christianity that is coming home to roost.
Have you thoughts about the movie Ceasars Messiah?? Thesis is Rome literally made up a Jesus Messiah narrative as a peaceful Messiah, in order to counter the ever- problematic Jews miltilatan Messiah
So why did they kill Christians? That was the expectation of Pliny writing to Trajan and of Trajans description. If you read the trial documents of Christians in North Africa or Perpetua’s martyrdom, you’ll see nothing like this happened.
Rome killing christians is highly exaggerated (not that it didn't happen at all, but it's exaggerated). I think it was probably a group of Jewish people who made up Jesus as the Jewish Messiah for the world, in order to get non-Jews to convert in his name for cultural and political influence. Christians persecuted pagans and eventually took over Rome. This is what the Roman emperor Julian said about christians in his book, Against The Galileans (written in Antioch sometime between the winter of 362 CE and early 363 CE): "...you emulate the rages and the bitterness of the Jews, overturning temples and altars, and you slaughtered not only those of us who remained true to the teachings of their fathers, but also men who were as much astray as yourselves, heretics..."
Magnificent illistrations! It really brings the work to life. It's a real wonder how Roman people went from a free and liberal mentality to the prudy mentality of the Middle Ages. It's like water flowing uphill. I can not imagine such a thing now days.
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Attalus Priscus, who rebelld against Honorius with a support of Alaric in 409, was also a pagan and probably was the last non-Christian who hold an imperial title. But Attalus, unlike emperor Julian, was a political opportunist who didn't mind (even if it was insincere) baptizing himself in the Arian rite to gain political support from the Visigoths.
Wow, he was serious about receiving Visigothic help
”Something great was about to happen… and then he was killed” could describe so much about the Western Roman Empire and a lot of the east as well😂
Inspired by your work I wrote a bit the other day about the decline of quality and craftsmanship in Roman Art, without your great insights and research, I wouldn’t be able to have as much conviction on my viewpoint and frame! Thank you! I absolutely adore the videos, though the topic is a tragic one, and I don’t miss any
Nice! 😎👍🏻
Majorian, perhaps you could make a video on Cola di Rienzo's reestablisment of the Roman Republic and constitution back in the 1300s (he even became tribune). He was quite a succesful leader and thought of himself as quite literally refounding Rome. Sadly he got assasinated by the Vatican but he's a very interesting figure.
Arnold of Brescia did something remarkably similar to Cola di Rienzo, but two centuries earlier. He started out as a heretical preacher who initially campaigned for the clergy to renounce their wealth and property and live the Apostles, but then joined forces with a rebel faction in Rome actually succeeded in kicking the Pope out of the city and making it a Commune modelled on the ancient Roman republic for ten years. But in 1155, Pope Hadrian IV allied with Emperor Frederick Barbarossa to take the city back, and Arnold was hanged as a rebel.
@@josephbrown1153 Interesting... I'll read on his full story, it is indeed remarkably similar to Cola's. Thank you very much.
Assassinated by the Vatican ? . But anyway , it's interesting to imagine what could have happend if he managed to unify Italy. Maybe a a second Roman republic.
I think it was in the 12th century, if I remembered what i readed. The “Commune of Rome”
The art used in these newer video's looks really good
True, wonder where he gets it
@@EdgarStyles1234AI
@@zakback9937 wow
@@EdgarStyles1234 if you look at the hands you can tell its AI
Its fantasy
Thanks!
And thank you, for your kind donation, I really appreciate it a lot :) Thanks to people like you, this channel is made possible.
It only did paganism survive in this period, but it also survived well into the Middle Ages among the Maniots of southern Greece. It died out there in the tenth century
paganism is still alive and well, it never died, just became a minority religion
@@Son_of_zeusIt's growing exponentially
I really enjoy your in depth knowledge of Roman history and culture. Keep it up.
Hey Maioranus,
Congrats! Your videos are amazing. I have enjoyed every one of them, and they evidently show your deep knowledge and sense of passion on everything related to the Late Roman Empire. It would have been indeed a fascinating period to live in. On that note, I have a suggestion. Why don’t you make a video on the linguistic state of affairs at the time and area in question? How far removed was the spoken Latin language from its previous classical standards? How close was it from breaking off into the modern Romance languages? What about the minority languages- Gaulish, Etruscan, etc.? Had they gone extinct at this point? Was the Greek spoken on the East intelligible to the Greek from today?
The conflict between Christianity and the old religion was very political. The old Roman aristocracy and Senate were very strong upholders of the old tradition and the old class hierarchy, and thus a bastion of the old religion. While the Emperors were Christian. By banning Paganism, the Emperors were hitting hard at their political rivals in the Senate. Note: the constant dispute over the Altar of Nike in the Roman Senate.
Poor Zeno.
He had no friends and had to rely on his enemies to fight and defeat each other, a task in which he was amazingly successful.
Very interesting! I've read about Julian the Apostate, but you hardly ever hear about these other late pagans.
Today paganism is making a big comeback. I won't be surprised if we see the return of Greco-Roman shrines and temples.
Maybe, but it would be a bit like the modern druids - they wouldn't have a clue.
Bruh, really?😂
@@davidmcgarry8910 - Ditto.
The return happened already centuries ago as Athenea reclaimed her inheritance, which was what Prometheus knew but would not tell.
It's not about worshiping this or that Patriarchal god (Zeus = Yaweh, no big difference) but about something else and much more fundamental. Hypathia would be proud of us.
Demographic shift certainly doesn't support any pagan revival..
I might like Maiorianus’ TH-cam channel even more than Maiorianus likes emperor Maiorianus
How about as much as he hates Ricimer?
He's great, isn't he? I wasn't much of a Roman nerd, and I kind of had to become one, for I was writing a book that was passionately burning in my heart. Though, I need to find a publisher.
2:09 Let'a just forget about the countless persecution of Christians.
And of course paganism must have survived much longer in the countryside and folk traditions, whence it’s very name!
It was assimilated into Christianity, like Saturnalia was into Christmas.
@@arnorrian1roman greco polytheism is still alive and well
@@Son_of_zeus Reconstructed.
@@arnorrian1 reconstructed in the public sphere, but kept alive through the familes that carried the traditions for milenia
@@arnorrian1 revitalized is the proper term.
I was totally unaware of all this. As you say, I was under the illusion that all tolerance ended with the death of Julian and the adven of Theodosius. Glad that you made this video.
I'm sure the comment section on this video will be respectful and tolerant
*grabs popcorn*
_Grabs popcorn, soda and candy_
Looks pretty fine to me a year later. Sounded like you wanted it to be more controversial than anyone else
I once read that Paganism survived in some Greek regions well into the Middle Ages.
Yes. There are ecclesiastical texts complaining that certain villagers in Greece refused to get baptised and "worshipped idols" or "worshipped the devil" even in 11th century.
ancient greek religion ia alive and well, it was recognized legally by greece in 2016 as a known religion. there are active temples and places of worship around the world, in addition rome/italy has reinstituted various roman temples for worship and prayer, for the roman polytheists, paganism is alive and well and growing.
Do you have a video covering Odoacer's declaration that "Rome need only one emperor" and how this was responded to?
Another great video! Keep it up!!!
The moral of the story is that you should always be wary of people who claim to be able to see the future.
??
If the Roman pagans are to survive, they needed to change. They needed to adapt. And the first thing they needed to come to realize is that as long as they believed in their own deities, they needed no images of their deities to worship. Just as doubt can kill people, belief can empowered people to do things they thought they cannot. So as long as they believed in their deities, they can won for their rights and tolerance.
Also, this video shown that not everyone at that time think alike. Many peoples have their own beliefs and ideas because not everyone in the Roman Empire is Christians and religious tolerance was a thing at certain point in time.
According to Peter Brown that did occur, as pagans had seen so many idols destroyed or stolen without consequence, and they shifted their focus from images to the stars, where the Gods and their stories could reign unmarred by Christian hands.
@@EdricoftheWeald And that raised a new question: How did they still lost to Christianity?
The Roman gov started forcing christianity on people, and persecuting pagans. If the most powerful governments force a religion on people, then eventually (even if it takes a few generations), everyone will have to obey or be killed off. A similar thing happened with Islam and the Arab kings forcing rules of islam on those they conquered. That's why christianity and islam are the largest religions in the modern day.
They were still gradually overrun as each new generation took over from the last. They didn't have organised dogma any longer nor any infrastructure to channel religious zeal into missionary efforts, apologetics, and other behaviours that the "world" religions still around today employed in those times. @@lerneanlion
I will be honest: one of my favorites Imperatores is Flavius Iulianus, and of course I've read something about Illus and the support who he received from pagans.
But of course, also Odoacer got the support of many pagans when he took control over Italy.
Currently I am also a philopagan in my country, and a very friendly romaner.
GRATIAS TIBI AGO AMICO, DE LA RES PUBLICA DOMINICANA, ET BENE VALETE.
I'm from India, overwhelmed to see the similarity of our fate with erstwhile Roman empire.
Like Roman Empire,our beloved country divided into India( Western Roman Empire) and Pakistan ( Eastern Roman Empire) with India being still Mix religious and harmonical and Pakistan having important hotspots of Hindu civilization & its development is muslim absolutist state.
See the fate, like Western Roman Empire, we're having increasing population which subscribes to non-native religious worldview and hates hindu roots & character of the land...divide is increasing.
Sad for the Motherland & Civilization .🗿
Awesome vid! I love your Roman history vids. So interesting!
Religions of abraham were a step back
I'm not doing anything, we should go and restore it now.
The only concrete possibility of paganism to survive was of Julian to have a long reign. Sadly most of the militant pagans were stunnborn reactionaries of the senatorial class that wanted to keep an elitist paganism and refused to "lowered" it by making it more accessible to people without high education, to the point some of them even rejected the reformation ideas of Julian of a universal pagan church similar to the Christian one.
On the subject of myths of the Roman Empire I think one is the historical view of the Catholic Church, that it was the first church from which others later split being the most obvious. Made me wonder what the earliest reference is to Rome having primacy over other churches and the oldest signs of a split between Eastern and Western Roman Christianity.
Cool excerpt from a buried part of history 👍
I think some people try to simplify the situation but as in the modern world it just isn’t so
"Illus and the Pagans" sounds like the name of a band
It has to be a metal band.
Very informative video. Love your work
Congratulation for this nice video ! Waiting for the next one ! Best Willeime
Thanks To This Excellent Vídeo.
Absolutely terrific video! Well researched, informative and entertaining!
Seems like intolerance always wins out in the end. Recent history certainly bears this out.
Christianity was unified and organized and had common goal while pagans had different religions and not organized at all and had no common goal
The third century crisis gave christianity a boost and the attempts of late Roman emperors like Diocletian to erase Christianity with force backfired on the emperors
The Roman empire was divided socially and culturally way before Christianity
Great Video!
people commenting about how its interesting that paganism survived years after julian. Traditional paganism is alive and well in modern day. it never died, it simply left the stage of dominant religions, greek polytheism or ethnic hellenic religion was recognized legally by greece in 2016, italy is currently resurrecting inactive temples for roman polytheism, where people still practice and worship roman gods. in Norway, they rebuilt a temple about 6yrs ago for the norse gods, where norse pagans worship and pray to their gods. Hinduism is one of the oldest surviving relgion of paganism. this belief that it died is false, it simply significantly lowered its numbers due to wars, violent conversions, influence and assimilition for survival. however, in modern day traditional paganism/polytheism meaning cultural pagan religions with standards, values and morals are increasing in numbers. This is seperate from what paganism is usually summed up to be with wiccans, satanists, crystal lovers etc. that is considered to fall under neopaganism a distorted self made belief system with no set standards to follow. which is the opposite of traditional paganism and abrahamic beliefs. unfortunetly often times the majority puts both in the same catogory.
Great stuff!
Use of AI generated images really brings old history to life. Often history old as times of Roman Empire looks like as just a simple stories, but photorealistic imagery brings back to reality, as it truly was a real thing.
Yes’m but the symbolism all over the place is basically gibberish with AI. I love reading the symbolism of the ancient Mediterranean.
Great video bro I wanna have a niche history TH-cam channel like you someday😂
Question, Was it Justinian that put the last nail in the coffin when it came to persecution of pagans?
Nope ... its Theodosius I when he made Christianity the Official State Religion of the Roman Empire Remember Theodosius predecessor majority of them are Christian Emperor but they never Declare Christianity the Official State Religion of the Empire even Constantine I , by the time of Justinian I Christians are Majority in Both Former Western Roman and Eastern Roman and Neighboring Foreign Countries is also becoming Christianize Kingdoms.
Axumite Empire ( Which later Becomes Ethopian Empire), Arcasid Kingdom of Armenia,Ghanassids,the Arian Christians Kingdom of Vandals , Both Arian Gothic Kingdoms of Italy & Hispania , Arian Kingdom of Burgundia, Berbers Kingdom in Africa are also becomes Christians so Paganism in the time of Justinians I in Roman Empire are Dead there is no need to final nail to Coffin Pagans in Roman Empire is extremely Few maybe some Few Thousand against Hunderd- Thousand Christians Roman theres no Chance of Pagans Rivival in Roman Empire , Monotheism in 6th Century and Preceeding Centuries in The Mediteranean Europe to North Africa & into Middle East is very prevelant just look at Sassanid Persia they are not Abrahamic Religion Adherents but still they are considered one of the Monotheist( Zoroastrianism) in that time.
A lot of the errors come from self congratulatory polemics by later christians. A classic example of this i saw was the uncritical assurtion that mystery cults didnt have the complex philosophy or theology of christianity. It didnt seem to occur the author that we may simply not have them.
I think, looking back it would seem that Christianity is the natural conclusion to platonic philosophy, and Neoplatonic paganism. Its sad to see the persecution of pagans, but Honestly, out of all the barrowing that Rome did when it came to culture and religions, I'd say that Christianity is a Roman original and a thoroughly Roman Religion. Let me explain.
Christianity was founded in Judea, yes, a Roman Province, at the time, meaning it was part of The Empire. As well, the entire new testament was originally written in Koine Greek, not hebrew, or Aramaic, despite that being the language that Jesus was thought to have spoken. And very quickly, the Christian religion went from a heretical Jewish sect, to a Gentile Religion, really within a generation of the original jewish Apostles. This added onto the fact that Christianity barrowed and used a lot of the same terms, and philosophy that the Romans and Greeks had used, which makes sense since Judea and Egypt were both hellenized by the time of Jesus. Such as referring to Jesus as the Logos, equating him to The Logos found in Stoic philosophy, and they equated The Trinity to be the Platonic, One. The Good, The Monad, if you will. However instead of there being a potentially infinite amount of Persons and divinities in the intelligible realms between The One and us here in the Sub-Lunar realm, they proclaimed that there are only 3 persons, and 1 mediator between God, (The One) and Man, that being The Incarnate Logos, Jesus. Thats why I believe the Original Roman and Greek Religions lived on within Christianity.
Christianity is a filth filled perversion of Neoplatonism. It glorifies the One to the point they see the World in Monological terms, there is only ever One answer to explain all these truths
The Universe as we know it has never existed in Monologue, it creates itself through the Dialogue of the One becoming Many and the Many becoming One. The Universe needs both Dissemination and Order to Create itself, if you glorify One over the Many then your perspective gets twisted. For example, because of Christianity it is a common philosophical question to ask "Do we have Fate or Free-will", the question is posed expecting a Monological answer, it can only be One. Either God, the Universe, is guiding all things or I am guiding myself in all things.
Rather it is clearly both, we all have our own Fates that are forcing our own Free-will into existence. God exists not as a Monological being, but as a Dialogue between your split part and the part that exists in the Universe outside you.
I also would add that Christianity (mostly Catholicism) during its history incorporated many elements of the pre-Christian traditions in Europe, becoming therefore very different from its original form and very close to the European spirit.
We’re still trying to revive it in the west now.
Tough lack. Indoeuropean paganism is not very different from Judaism (incl. Christianity and Islam): both are Patriarchal religions and the age of Patriarchy is over.
Prometheus (who is the same as Loki and surely also the same as the pre-Indoeuropean dragon-God Sugaar) knew who would, among his children, dethrone Zeus but the creator of Humanity would not speak (and that's why Zeus tortured him). In hindsight that victorious child was clearly Athenea, Yaweh was just an orientalizing mutation of Zeus, one that made him more powerful for some time but could not in the long run achieve victory against destiny.
All hail the mighty headache!
@@LuisAldamizWhat?! Lol
@@pandakicker1 - Yeah gods are ideas, we make them happen, what doesn't mean they are powerless as long as they have followers, that's what a "godform" is: an idea that lives on its own, like money or property.
@@LuisAldamiz Yahveh has to nothing to do with Zeus. Totally different deities. And paganism has nothing to do with judaism.
Judaism has holy books, paganism does not. Judaism forbids the depiction of the devine in art, paganism uses imagery in worshipping (Orthodox and Catholic christians do too because they took that from pagans). Judaism declares there is only one true god, all other gods are fake, paganism accepts many different gods. You are confused.
@@locusta-bw2vd - Yaweh = El. The Bible equals both all the time because the first 2 books are doubly written by Judeans (Southern Hebrews), who used Yaweh, and Israelites (Northern Hebrews), who used El or even the plural elohim ("the gods"). This implies a cultural division before the exile to Babylon and much greater general Canaanite standarization in the North, because their god/gods is indistinct from those of the Phoenicians. Who is El (Arabic: Allah)? The god of the sky and supreme god of the Canaanite pantheon. Sure it's slightly different from the Indoeuropean theology but only because of culture and language: in terms of synchretism they are one and the same.
Paganism... or rather Polytheism has everything to do with Judaism: not just El-Yaweh is very clearly the same as El of the Northern Canaanites (Phoenicians) and to the "Pagan" Allah of Arabs, a closely related ethnicity, but the usage of "elohim" is what it seems ("the gods") and not, as Monotheistic fanatics claim often, a honorary term for the single god.
Furthermore Judaism also has legacy of Egyptian polytheism (and not of the Atenite Solar-monotheistic heresy), specifically from the chief god of the Egyptians Amen or Amun, whose name is invoked by Jews and Christians all the time unbeknown to them of the ancestral meaning. This is because Moses was almost certainly the usurper Pharaoh Amenmesse (Amen-Moseh), who seems to have ended up refugeed in Sinai and arming the Canaanite slaves and inspiring on them a new religion based on Egyptian-Canaanite synchretism and, yes, quite apparently a monotheistic focus (although it's unclear if that monotheism was fully developed early or if it was Zoroastrian influence in the Babylonian captivity or a mix of both).
So Yaweh is not just, very clearly, El of the Caaanites but also at least partly Amen of the Egyptians as well. It is probably from the Egyptian side where the concept of creator god comes and in fact the Biblical story of creation is almost literally copied from the Egyptian one, the one by Ptah, god of crafts. There is a difference though, while in the priest-dominated Hebrew tradition Yaweh creates with the word (is the word even, as that is the first thing that the Bible says: "at the beginning it was the word", i.e. "I'm gonna tell you a story, the story, what has been passed orally by many generations"), while Ptah creats by the heart and only later uses the word or tongue to name what has been already created. This is surely because Egyptians had this dual notion of Sun = King = willpower and Moon = priests = consciousness, while the Hebrews seem dominated by the priests only.
Even the Christian Trinity may have some Egyptian roots, as Amen, Ra and Ptah are claimed to be one:
"All gods are three: Amun, Re and Ptah, whom none equals. He who hides his name as Amun, he appears to the face as Re, his body is Ptah".
When polytheistic aristocratic power and upper institutions were depleted of their wealth and political agency because of the third century crisis, this left them unable to compete with a church which fed off of this decline and had already been growing for two centuries. Parable of the mustard seed
some errors in the video I feel.
Greek Sage Thales 600bc "Love your fellow human even if this means hurting yourself"
Professor of theology Fr George Metallenos in his book "Pagan Hellenism or Greek Orthodoxy?" backs up what many historians and researchers say that Ancient Greeks were not pagan but that Orthodoxy is ancient Greek.
"Christianity is a spiritual continuation of Hellenism, in almost everything" "The ancient Greeks were not pagans. They did not worship idols, but personified ideas and values" "The so-called gods of Olympus were believed to be all children of the one and only god, Zeus, and constituted a kind of numerous Holy Family or eleven (+1) Saints." The temples named after Olympians are no different than Orthodox temples named after saints.
Greece Archbishop Christodoulos said "Early Greek Christians blessed and honored the Ancient Greek temples,... by recycling the materials (stones and dirt) from the Ancient Greek Temples to build Christian temples.
The origin of the world Paganism is a derogatory term meaning rustic people or country people and not meaning to believe in many Gods. But the meaning changed which was used just like how protestants think Catholics or Orthodox having saints is paganism to also assume saints are worshiped like Gods. It seems to be a power struggle. Their is not much difference from the the ancient Greek views and Olympians to Christianity when it started but Christianity changed over time.
Professor of theology Luke Filis "the language of the Greek "New Testament" comes linguistically and ideologically from the venue of Greek thinking and intellect and it is composed in order to be a complete ideology, with the pure Greek way of wording" & how the Greek ideas and words of that Jesus used, got completely twisted throughout the years to represent something different and foreign to the original meaning and purpose."
Historian Fr. George Metallinos states about the three great hierarchs: Basil the Great, Gregory the Theologian and John Chrysostom view that "Hellenism is the capital of Orthodoxy" (Orthodoxy meaning Christianity)
in his book "Pagan Hellenism or Greek Orthodoxy?" "That Christianity is a spiritual continuation of Hellenism, in almost everything (terminology, symbols, ritual, etc.) and the Hebrew alleloujah is (both literally and etymologically) the sequence from Zeus to Jesus"
Serbian Orthodox Theology states "The Christian “reception” of Hellenism is the reason, important at least as much as it is neglected"
"The Hellenistic age forms the universally normative ideal of all-encompasing education"
Church father Clement of Alexandria
"why should I linger over the barbarians, when I can adduce the Greeks...holy Apostle Paul says, preserving the prophetic and truly ancient secret from which the teachings that were good were derived by the Greeks: Howbeit we speak wisdom among them who are perfect"
and many more that I did not state.
bible omitted passage John 12:23 "complete" passage which the church has when Greeks see Christ which is "The hour is fulfilled that the Son of Man should be glorified. For Greece alone begets man, a heavenly plant, and a divine plant, a divine system, a science that is aptly understood."
also Clement of Alexandria which St. Nectario agrees with when he says in Stromata book 6:5= "Apostle Paul will show, saying: "Take also the Hellenic books, read the Sibyl (prophecy over 13,000 years ago), how it is shown that God is one (they believed in 1 God), and how the future is indicated (they prophesied 1st and others changed it). Or as other translate to sum it up as "you will find our Lord Jesus Christ written more clearly by the Greeks"
St. Catherine regarding Apollo's profecy of Christ. Emperor Constantine affirming Apollo's message from Sibyl prophecy and 2nd coming but would not speak since the emperor was afraid of the church.
"St. Athanasios of Alexandria affirms that the Greek Sibyl's prophecy of Christ is authentic"
Church father Bishop Dorotheos of 3rd century AD said all the majority of mothers that are known of Christ's disciples (no record of Simon & Judas) had Ancient Greek names. fathers of Christ's disciples as well with Ancient Greek names which St. John & St. James the Apostles father name was Zebedeos (Ζεβ+εδαίος from Zeus+Ideal)." One does not have a name praising the other religions God. But go figure when a 6000 years old place called GaZA which in Greek is Ga=land Za=Zeus.
Side note Greek history is heavily undermined, destroyed, and hidden. like the 7,000 years old tablet of Dispilio which is the oldest in the world yet neglected and not highlighted for political reason. Or the archaeologists beaten up for showing Human Skulls in Greece over 700,000 years ago HALKIDIKI: Petralona cave. And many others.
History is a can of worms and everyone is afraid to touch it.
In the 8th century in the Peleponese, there was a group of Maniotes, who are considered the last pagan Greeks. Under Constantine VII, they were called "idolatrous Hellenes" by the Greek speaking, Christian "Romans" of the empire.
And they met pagan Slavs when they migrated there. As a Slav I like that fact.
@@arnorrian1and later the pagan Slavs started converting into Eastern Rite Christianity.
@@mikered1974 Slavic Orthodox Christianity here in Serbia is 75% paganism, so...
@@arnorrian1 what Bullshits are you Talking about Wait are you one of those Ignorant Fellows who mis-interpret Iconography as worhips of Idols & the Trinity as Paganism Nahhh... im telling you Boy Icons in Christianity is not Form of Paganism we do not worships those Pictures or Statues its just how we remember the Holy Ones( Im Catholics ) like how you Kept Pictures of your Deceases Relatives ( its just Remembrance things ) and the Trinity thing is just Representation of Christ Nature at one Point in the beginning Christ is the "All Mighty God"and Then when Christ Manifested his power in the World Christ is the "Holy Spirits" and when Christ Exist in the World as living Creature Christ is "the Mortal man" but Christ is still the One theres no Paganism in Christianity ( Catholics & Eastern Orthodox & Other Christian Denomination )You are just Ignorant .
Amazing video
Living is a terminal condition and all good things must come to an end. In that sense, and that sense alone the fall of the Roman empire is as inevitable of as the fall of any other empire that has ever existed, exists now or will exist in the future. So perhaps, let us turn it around... at which points before the 5th century could Rome have fallen earlier? And could we see the end of the Roman republic as a _fall_ into empire?
Very cool
It should be stated that most of the writings about late roman history were written by Christian sources who were certainly biased and chose to frame event in a way that favored their beliefs such as that it was inevitable that Christianity was going to take over when this is nonsense history isn't something that was set in stone it could have gone any number of different ways its very easy for the winners to proclaim bold and ridiculous ideas such as manifest destiny but a scholar should know better.
I would say that Zeno's reign was a tumultuous time for the ERE, but one that didn't really replicate itself. The WRE had far more usurpers and instability, after all they had 4 coups in a short period of time that ended with the end of the WRE. Usurpations were not unheard of in Rome even at its peak, and the ERE wouldn't get a similar period of instability until the final Roman-Sassanid War.
I think I need some sources to support the number of people who were "pagan" or Christian. I think it's also worth noting that lumping all "pagans" together isn't really historically accurate. These weren't unified religions. Rome was a society of many religions. Even adherents to Roman religious cults didn't practice the same "religion" in terms of how we think of religion today. The key issue, moreover, is the preference among Roman elites for Platonic worldviews. Christianity in many ways gave a doctrine and religious narrative to the divine concepts presented in Platonic philosophy, which meant it gained considerable sway over the educated elites that already favored Platonism.
We don't have sources about the numbers.
I do think it’s a bit unfair to describe so many of the Christian emperors as fanatical and intolerant, when even Theodosius didn’t outlaw it entirely, but this was a fascinating look nonetheless. While it’s true that paganism lasted longer than is traditionally portrayed, it’s also rather interesting just how quickly it fell to irrelevancy. 150 years is really not a very long time in terms of continent-spanning religions, and it makes me wonder if there were still large pockets of pagans in the western provinces under the subsequent Frankish and Gothic kingdoms for decades or even centuries after the fall of the west.
Did you actually watch the video??No the answer is no
It isn't at all. Christian emperors were fanatical and intolerant, specially Theodosius and most of his dynasty. The byzantines earned their destiny eventually.
Kinda outside the scope of the video, but everything presented here is also consistent with arguments that even the Eastern Empire didn't conceive of itself as explicitly and uniquely Christian until Justinian, and the whole byzantine political theology develops fully after him.
Great stuff man can we get a video and Theodoric the great and his golden age?I think that’s a great story where he pretty much was a Roman emperor and all but name.
Or Constantine declared Cristian religion as only allowed in the Rome. Edict was sign by Constantine and Licinius. It was law about tolerance and not the first one. Two years earlier, 311. Galerius issued Edict of Serdica.
You should really stop using the term "Paganism." The Romans never actually called themselves Pagans. Paganism was a term invented by the Christians to lump everyone together who wasn't Christian or Jewish into a single group. However, Paganism was not a single religion. It was many different religions. The main religion of the Classical Roman Empire was called Hellenism which focused on the worship of Jupiter, Apollo, Dionysus, etc. However, there were other Religions as well throughout the empire. Mithraism was very popular especially in the late Roman empire as well as Kemetism. Isis worship was popular with women. There was Zoroastrianism in the East and Druidism in the North. There were many other smaller religions and cults that thrived due to the general religious tolerance of the Roman empire before the rise of the Christian zealots.
Remember when Pagans fed Christians to lions? Or used them as human torches?
@@gofish7388Christians was intolerant and Christianity was based on a real historical figure and Christianity was young compared to Judaism and because of that the Romans and the polytheist dont really like Christianity. Christianity were the exception not the norm.
Note: im not saying these action were justified, the point of this comment was to point out the reason why Christian was persecuted and keep in mind that most of the time this violence was not sponsored by the government
Yep it's called Polytheism
@@bintanglintangerlangga1983 The polytheists got what they were asking for.
Ye and sol invictus as well sir
Love your videos. What are your personal favourite books on the Roman empire? That is the republic, early & late empire?
So you're saying I can restore paganism on the CK3 Fallen Eagle mod even if I do the 476 start?!?!
Yes
0:30 my reaction as a modern greek when someone tells me about "byzantine empire"
How is the philosophy of Plato a form of paganism?
It's definitely not Christian in any way and it thrived in a Pagan context. Even if I generally dislike Plato, it's clear that the totalitarianism of Christianity would hardly have allowed someone like him to live, let alone teach and write, even if, because of historical circumstances, Christians actually adopted him as intellectual pet.
As has been rightly stated in other comments, there is no such thing as paganism. An -ism suggests coordination. Julian had an idea of creating a pagan church! But was never able to implement it. There was a mass of various cults, but no coordinating principle. You might find interesting a book The Darkening Age By Catherine Nixey, about how Christians sought to destroy pagan practices. Pagan practices have never gone away. Gregory of Tours reports people offering annual sacrifices to the gods of a Swiss lake for example in the late sixth century.
Plato and platonism are inherently pagan
Paganism is indeed important
Interesting
I wonder what the pagans called themselves?
@EremiasRanwolf-xz7ek Yep. No believer in anything would call himself a pagan, except perhaps to purposely annoy some other believer
So the rebels were Zenophobes?
Interesante,haz más videos de estos temas
Best TH-cam channel and honest channel we were always taught how Jews , arabs( Rashiduns,ummayeds,abbasids) ,turks (seljuks and ottomans), Germanics(visagoths,ostrogoths ,vandals,franks),Persians(Parthians and sassanids) and huns destroy Roman empire from outside which they indeed did their part but we were never told about the crimes of Christianity how it destroy roman civilization internally and divided it forever .Lesson to learn is that a relegion can change whole civilization indeed christian romans were totally different from Pagan romans they completely forget about traditions of their ancestors and accept a jewish sect (Christianity) and give those popes and priest high authority over themselves and start accepting their orders as slaves .I can't even imagine how many pagans lost their lives during their lands were occupied by relegiously zealous christians that doesn't hesitate to kill any non christian.All great heros where pagans in roman empires and paganism was the thing that made romans proud of their roman empire but when so called christians came they start loving jewish civilization and Theodosis was the one who start oppressive policies against pagans and From here after dark days for romans began as christians became dominant in positions
Watch out there comes the hardcore christians wave
Oh, calm down. I can still watch and disagree with him on a lot of things. I may be a die-hard Christian, but I do believe that the pagan temples shouldn't have all been demolished, especially as the Pantheon is now St. Mary's Cathedral in Rome.
Paganists crucified Jesus then hijacked Christianity, injected it with the false idolatrous Babylonian polytheistic trinity. Only Yahshua saves. Repent!
They are funny in a pathetic sense...
@LuisAldamiz What? I can watch and still have some disagreements. But I do agree that many Christians themselves were irrational, especially with each other. That's how the 30 years war started.
Illus is not well known. He was a rebel during the reign of Zeno. I think he supported the usurper Basiliscus, the former commander of the Eastern part of the failed invasion of the Vandal kingdom. He had to hide in a church from the angry mob when he returned but bounced back as emperor, only to be removed again by Zeno after moving towards Monophysitism, which alienated majority in Constantinople.
I think you could somehow visualise those relations as its hard to remember and not confuse those names :/ . However, good and inveresting video anyway.
As a devoutly agnostic polytheist, I appreciate your approach.
So much political intrigues happened in the span of 500 years !!! I don't have enough brain cells to remember it all.
❤❤❤
The dividing line between Christianity and the old religion (Pagan) was a very thin line. A lot of old Pagan gods and minor spirits were just renamed and re-branded as new Saints, and worship continued as before.
In mainstream Chistianity, not in Bible-based sola scriptura Christianity.
@@tombuddy100sola Scriptura is heretical, who compiled your scripture? The Orthodox Church.
@@CrippieMannster What? King James Bible is heretical?
@@tombuddy100 no lol, but only reading scripture without including the spoken oral traditions the Orthodox church alone provides is heretical.
@@CrippieMannster And what are those oral traditions about?
We know that early Christians did not celebrate Christmas, and that we do not even know what date Jesus was born on. We know that 25. December was some pagan Roman celebration, which was replaced by Christmas. There are other such examples. I do not want to get into a big discussion here on youtube.
As a Christian I strongly disapprove what the Eastern Roman Emperors behaved. Justinian made similar policies, he closed the last Academies of Athens, letting the disciples no where to go… unless they try east, to the court of Shahanshah Khosrow I , he was revered as the Philosopher King by these medieval Athenians. In terms of religious matters, Justinian was a jerk, like all eastern Emperors after Constantinus
As ever, well done .. but still a large number of assumptions warp the foundational notions of the presentation. The idea that Paganism - the forms of worship favoured in the countryside - coughed, genteelly, and faded away from civilised city life is found nowhere in the Christian texts from those times. Indeed the very fact that Eastern emperors found it necessary - yes, necessary - to reinstate the pagan emperors' repressive measures against the Christians but then turned against the idol-worshippers and their gods = ethnic polytheism (a Hellene, a heathen, etc) speaks volumes.
Extending from animal sacrifice to astrology to witch-doctoring to theology to legal theory to superstition to poetic mysticism to (whatever), Paganism in the later years of the Roman Empire and into the rule of Byzantium and the Arabs covered a vast array of beliefs, practices, doctrines, and mythologies. From Claudius Claudianus, Nonnus of Panopolis, and Messius Phoebus Severus to Salusitus of Emesa, Marinus of Neapolis and Proclus Lycus, to Isidore of Alexandria, Ammionius Hermiae and Simplicius of Cilicia .. the line between Neoplatonist pagans (those who held onto the pagan 'rites') and Neoplatonic Christians (who favoured or at least liked the mystical aspects of the God of the 'Christians') was slight.
After Justinian, and his reconquest, the Rome that had so richly imbibed such Neoplatonic fancies was largely history - for monks and scholars to consider; leaving for the most part only the superstitions .. alive and bewildering many today, touching wood, esoteric 'knowledge', cunning astrology, witch doctor-ery, alternative lifestyles, et al.
;o)
I think AI art is not adequate to an history channel yet, it will mess up relevant visual information and is full of bad stereotypes, someone distracted could imagine they are made accurate to the period. For clarity fewer selected images could do a better job... but ofc, if its something you can get an extra money with it, who am i to judge. GJ anyway, its an interesting topic.
Copyright totalitarianism led to this.
The AI generated "art" is truly worthless.
Christian Emperors- Crazy Extremist Religious Zealots
Pagan Roman Emperors like Caligula, Nero or Diocletian- ok people?
No; in the majority of times both pagans and christians ignored each other or have normal relations.
They weren't religious... that's the point, if you want an actual religious pagan emperor, look at Antoninus Pius, that's why he's called Pius
Algologjam!!
de paganis: non sumus mortui adhuc.
Absolutely not!
Paganism was dying already even after the fall of the western Roman empire half the population was pagan and British islands were pagan when Rome left it in 410
Christianity just needed time to take control of Europe
I and the Father are One John 10.30 🐦
The east,while richer,did not have better borders,compared to the west.
yes, the late roman empire is utterly fascinating.
but consider this:
paganism never went away AT ALL
when Christianity becomes popular enough to become a state religion it has itself morphed away from Christ and become pagan in its own way
so paganism never left Rome, it merely changed trappings
of course my view is founded on the radical assumption that Christianity is true and the Bible the word of God, so when Jesus said strait is the gate, narrow the way and FEW there are who find it this rules out the notion that there ever was any such thing as a Christian nation
for there never was.
It is all in the Bible
what you believe is none of my business, i just put this forth for your perusal and consideration
Hey, I'm not entirely sure if it's just me being inable to recognise your voice when you are speaking German but I think the channel "Zeitlose Geschichte" is coppying your videos
Niche topics indeed. Perhaps then time comes when it seems fit. Interesting, compelling, thought provoking, and even intriguing to say the least is this bit of newer information to some who would appreciate learning. Hiding the truth is the past amongst power. Definitely adds validity to overlooked perspective of the narrative of how a time-contemporary fugitive-exile, equivalent to the late 20th century terrorist known as the "Uni-bomber," was author to the Biblical, "Book of Revelations."
Explore golgumbaz
Rome may have conquered Judaea, but, Judaea destroyed Rome.
This will be biblical.
Trust the plan.
How?
Because Judea didn't accept Jesus Christ, so that's an inaccurate statement. No, the Christians didn't destroy Rome, if that's the case than the Eastern Roman Empire wouldn't last another Thousand Years and it wouldn't be the Holy Roman Empire trying to rebuild the Western Empire.
Christianity literally formed the Western civilization after the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
Destroyed?
How?
Ok buddy
Does anyone else see the parallels with christianity then and wokeism today?
I was thinking the same, they took over media and trying to take control over people in power and big corporations, while 90% of people do not support them. They know what they are doing, trying to convert population by restricting freedom of speech because they know otherwise they would not have a chance.
hell nah
Christianity enforced monogamy tho
Nope. How?
Wokeism is a (partly engineered) result of Capitalist decodification and has little chances of success, especially on the Trans issue, because it has gone beyond reason. Christianity was a totalitarian single party (church) regime with a political comissary or several in every neighborhood, extracting information via confesion and enforcing strict adherence to the dogma via inquistorial means. Capitalist decodification ended Christianity rightly (used it, abused it, corrupted it and threw it to the dust bin of history) and there's no way, no matter what reactionaries try, to restore it ever again (same applies to all comparable religions like Islam, Hinduism, etc.)
Yes, it is important to know that all the early Socal Justice pioneers were Christians doing Social Justice in the name of Christianity. They couldn't get it into law because of the Government's Church/State separation. So the removed the religion from their Social Justice beliefs and got it into law. So it is the Child of Christianity that is coming home to roost.
Have you thoughts about the movie Ceasars Messiah?? Thesis is Rome literally made up a Jesus Messiah narrative as a peaceful Messiah, in order to counter the ever- problematic Jews miltilatan Messiah
So why did they kill Christians? That was the expectation of Pliny writing to Trajan and of Trajans description. If you read the trial documents of Christians in North Africa or Perpetua’s martyrdom, you’ll see nothing like this happened.
Rome killing christians is highly exaggerated (not that it didn't happen at all, but it's exaggerated). I think it was probably a group of Jewish people who made up Jesus as the Jewish
Messiah for the world, in order to get non-Jews to convert in his name for cultural and political influence. Christians persecuted pagans and eventually
took over Rome. This is what the Roman emperor Julian said about christians in his book, Against The Galileans (written in Antioch sometime between the winter of 362 CE and early 363 CE): "...you emulate the rages and the bitterness of the Jews, overturning temples and altars, and you slaughtered not only those of us who remained true to the teachings of their fathers, but also men who were as much astray as yourselves, heretics..."
@@Joanna-il2urThose letters prove that they didn't kill christians. MUH PURSUCUSHUN is a lie.
Magnificent illistrations! It really brings the work to life.
It's a real wonder how Roman people went from a free and liberal mentality to the prudy mentality of the Middle Ages. It's like water flowing uphill. I can not imagine such a thing now days.
im stil hoping for a atilla total war mod that removes all the christian symbols
I love mythology and Paganism i think it would be better for the world in general, Blessed Be.
I was gonna become a patreon member, but slipping in a guerilla ad attack at about the 7 minute mark pissed me off. Just be honest about your ads.