Thanks for showing more about these purple labeled books. Goes to my last question on your last video: For us, we can't really understand why they were given purple labels if we don't know exactly what you did. If you didn't use any cleaning chemical agents, then there shouldn't be any issue. I'm going to have to go to your website to see exactly what you do. I like how someone else though that maybe these books already had some type of chemical residue from the previous owner that was detected by CGC. I would have definitely contacted CGC to see if they could provide you with more details and context.
Thanks for the comment. I dry cleaned the books, except I use distilled water/humidification on bends, ticks, and other defects. I noticed a couple of the purple label books had streaks on them that I was able to wipe off with a makeup pad. I am guessing the water left the streaks.. or it was caused by eraser marks. Whichever, it was sloppy on my part. I now thoroughly wipe all books down with makeup pads before submitting. I am almost certain it was those streaks on the books that made the grader think "chemicals"
CGC says: :Non-additive procedures, such as pressing, dry cleaning, and tape / substance / restoration removal are not classified as restoration by CGC." So, what I am wondering is whether you purchased books which had been 'wet cleaned' by a previous owner. You may be paying for a previous owner's restoration efforts, and there was nothing wrong with yours at all.
@@Teezythadon "Water Cleaning Water cleaning, our wet cleaning, is considered restoration since it adds something to that book detectable with the proper equipment (CGC and CBCS use this equipment). The cover is separated from the rest of the book with water cleaning. The water cleaning method I have witnessed uses a gentle water sprayer with the water and a mild cleaning agent, running down or across the cover for an hour or two - the process causing the paper to become so soaked that it almost becomes transparent. There is also an extensive drying process. "
@@Teezythadon "Solvent Cleaning Solvent cleaning involves using a chemical agent to whiten the cover or pages. There are a few different methods for cleaning with solvents. One is to use a mister spray bottle to apply the solvent. With this sprayer, the mist falls onto the comic instead of squirting directly onto the book. This method allows the book to dry faster, reducing the chance that it will cause the cover to become wavy or appear to have a lot of small finger indentions. It also keeps the solvent from soaking its way into the pages underneath. The second type of solvent cleaning uses a chemical that activates when heated. The solvent applied to the book makes it damp. Then, using heat from the pressing device, the chemical whitens the cover. Another popular solvent cleaning is using a chemical placed on the comic and put in a “lightbox” that activates the chemical. The results are marvelous. Like the other cleaning methods, this method takes patience and time to learn the technique. "
That all sounds way too complicated. I'll just stick to dry cleaning and pressing. I have no problem with people using spot wetting (HOTSHOT) or humdification. I only use the former and it works great
I must have missed where you described your cleaning method. If it involved anything other than dry dirt removal, such as by eraser, then the use of water to wet the paper or chemicals to alter the color and structure of the paper fiber while removing dirt are now and have always been considered as restoration by the hobby. Any changes to the color inks, paper, and gloss that occur with the use of liquid-based methods for dirt removal are not conserving, as the comic is not at risk of further deterioration if the work isn't done. As to the marketplace value of comics with purple labels denoting restoration: from reading the experiences of many sellers, I believe that restored comics go for roughly a quarter of an unrestored counterpart. As always, it depends on the issue itself, and quite a bit on the degree and type of restoration performed.
100% wet cleaning, so the color rubs off because the “gloss” wasn’t as protective back then. If you look very closely you’ll see tiny white spots and that is a clear sign that they were wet cleaned. If you’re going to clean, wet or dry, you have to make sure it’s as sparingly as possible. You need to press in between any wet cleaning, you cannot press hard during cleaning, do as much dry cleaning as possible…
If it's only cover cleaning, it should be conserved....quite honestly, if no chemicals are used, it should be Universal imo. However..... If they find cleaning chemicals....that should DEFINITELY be Restoration.
Makeup pads are what I use, gets rid of a lot of streaks and such.. not sure about bringing back a shine though, never seen that... not sure why a book would be hazy in the first place. Maybe because of a chemical? Dunno... not something I have to worry about really
I still don't quite see the point of paying for CGC appraisals unless it's to help sell the books? And maybe they're going to adopt the 'rules' that are used for appraisal of 'currency', where ironing (flattening) bills and cleaning coins is considered 'restoration'?
I thought about it but ran the numbers, dollar wise it's better to just sell them as purples. If I was 100% sure they'd get blue the second time, it'd be better to resubmit.. but that's not guaranteed. The going rate is like 55-60% value.. I will either hold or take the loss, but not going to dwell on it much longer. This stuff is depressing lol
I sure hope so. I am going to almost exclusively stick to copper from now on, with the occasional bronze. Silver is hard and you have to deal with this type of stuff
@@ImproveCollectingComics One one hand, I was thinking oddball shit like this can happen. On the other, you should not have to pay to resubmit them to get the blue instead of purple label....
I think they are over-reacting to the increased number of people using restorative cleaning techniques. I got punished for buying whiter than average books maybe? I cracked a couple to resubmit, we'll see what happens.
If you give the covers a light wipe over with a damp wet (Water only) clean microfibre cloth, it cleans the soiling off without affecting the ink colours or gloss of the cover. However, would this be considered restoration or conservation?
Water only is definitely allowed. I am not positive, but am pretty sure that almost all pro services humidify books.. essentially adding moisture to the entire book before presses. I am not sure if CCS uses moisture, but wouldn't be surprised. I only spot add moisture to defects, I don't use humidity. Sometimes I'll lightly wipe down an entire cover with a hint of distilled water, if there are significant defects... never enough for it to really be called "wet" though.
@@ImproveCollectingComics That's what I would have thought. Taking the soiling off the covers is not restoration. I"m scared to send any Silver Age books in now. I hope you find out what happened and have them re-graded to blue label (At no extra charge). It is a shame cause they are really nice grade books. Best of Luck
@@ImproveCollectingComics interesting. Just seems a case of a previous owner or the seller...doing some sort of harsh cleaning techniques that would constitute a restored grade. Would definitely be interesting to see what cgc says.
Yeah that is garbage man. I think you'd take too much of a hit leaving em purple. Probably better off cracking em and selling un-slabbed. Your personal grading seems to be dead on. Just sell em raw personally graded. If there's still enough money left to make it worth while for you, crack em & re-submit em. Kinda sucks losing twice the submission fees, but possibly the best answer.
What grading tool are you using? I struggle with inconsistency between people grading and your tool seems to be right in CGCs ballpark. I’d be interested to know. Thanks
For transparency...did you use the blue light/peroxide whitening method? This may clarify things for your viewers to determine whether CGC is able to distinguish that method. Or were the "restored" books dry cleaned the old fashioned way?
That's the ironic thing. I did use the lightbox on some silver ages like 5-6 months ago. Unfortunately, it makes the books a bit brittle. I had some popped staples so I stopped doing that. Now, I only dry clean and press silvers.
@Improve-Collecting Comics I've followed you for a while and recalled that you previously did the treatments. I was curious if the affected books were as well, which may have contributed to the restored grades. Knowing that they were only dry cleaned is very concerning and brings awareness to the community. Thanks for the clarification and for your great content.
I’ve come to the conclusion that whoever the graders are for the economy tier at CGC have no idea what they’re doing. Those purple labels are BS. I just got back an avengers 87 that I bought from dale robert comics website, pretty credible guys, as a raw 9.0. I got the book and agreed it was right around a 9.0. I got it pressed for good measure and CGC graded it a 6.5 🤨 There is absolutely no way in hell that it is a 6.5. I don’t know what the hell is going on over there, if there just rushing to get books out or what but something needs to change. The fact the gave half your books blue labels and half purple because of “cover cleaning” is an absolute joke
I always thought economy was known as the best graders... we definitely need to rethink that. I'm very sorry about your Avengers 87, I am a big fan of yellow covers. Email me some pics if you want another opinion. jim@improvecollecting.com
@@ImproveCollectingComics definitely will buddy! I’ll have it in hand tomorrow and I’ll shoot over some pics. It’s weird the graders notes were the same as a 9.0 I got back a month or so ago
Same thing happened with me for s early daredevil. It was absolutely a 9.4+. I got a 7.0. They said there was a big crease across the book (there was no such thing) and stains all over. (There wasn't) I'm going to stick to moderns from now on I guess because that's insane. It looked better than a lot of moderns I get yet they so clearly graded it incorrectly.
I no longer trust CGC, I’m certain you know how to properly clean books. I send all my comics to EGS, yes they are a smaller company and currently not great for resale but I trust their process, something I used to have with CGC.
Either they were done with an LED box or overlay process by someone before you. Or CGC is screwing up again up like they have been. Cgc is a garbage dump these days.
Yeah they were not restored before me.. it was pretty obvious. I used an eraser and an absorene pad only. No wet cleaning or light box. In fact, the notes on all but one book say "staining"
The grading of cleaned and pressed books is very very inconsistent. I've gotten books back lately with purple labels and I've gotten bad books back with blue universal labels that have been chemically cleaned and whitened. So it is extremely bad grading right now with CGC and very inconsistent. If anything it should be a Gray conserved label because you didn't add anything to the book all you did was remove.
I own 7 slabs that I purchased 1 CBCS and 6 CGC the rest of my 3500 collection is RAW!!! I have never submitted a book for grading and don’t know if I ever will.
So how do you feel about this? I had a cgc 9.0 asm 129 blue label. Cracked and had cleaned and press. Nothing drastic. Resubmitted and came back a 9.0 purple label for APPARENT top edge trimmed. But it’s not. Never was. So what do I do next. Crack and resubmit to cgc again. Wait a few months and resubmit. Or go elsewhere.
Ug... that really sucks, that's like worst case scenario, I'm sorry. I would wait a couple of months and resubmit. There are probably only a few graders that touch those higher end books, so there's a chance you'd get the same guy. It'd suck to get him again and have him recognize the book. I'd wait awhile to make sure it's gone from his memory lol. Oh, and are you sure the top edge wasn't trimmed? I'd be interested in seeing a photo jim@improvecollecting.com, or send the CGC number if there are photos in the system
I wish purple labels weren’t looked at as a bad thing. But a clean and press is not a restoration. I’m guessing the person was new or cgc changed policies without telling anyone.
I would put these books under some UV lights to see if they'd been cleaned with a solvent/detergent (I believe that is how CGC/CBCS is detecting). Most (not all) solvents and detergents will fluoresce under UV lighting. That's not to say it was actually cleaned as many things will fluoresce that have nothing to do with cleaning. Seems like you got a bad break on those books but it is possible to get that removed although after spending that much on getting them slabbed its tough to determine if its worth it.
I looked at them under a UV light and they look the same as my blue label books, some that I bought.. one was slabbed in 2004. Of course, I have no idea what I am looking for, but I can't see anything out of the ordinary.
@@ImproveCollectingComics Any solution/detergent should be apparent under UV (usually bright blue). If there is nothing on the covers its possible its on the interior or the grader was having a bad day and took it out on your books.
If dry cleaning and pressing was only done...and nothing extreme like wet cleaning and maybe even whitening...these books should not be purple label at all. I would dispute these. It would be worth it to do so and have a follow up video on it. Be real interesting.
@@ImproveCollectingComics I use both of those tools as well. And there's also a special sponge that I use that I can typically get dirt off of color with. Can't remember the name off the top of my head though lol.
I find this a really strange unboxing. Unless they have changed the way they determine "cleaned", I find this a very strange situation. We should be seeing all sorts of purple labels on upcoming unboxings if they are doing things differently. Maybe someone before you used some chemical solvent CGC can detect? Did you try a black light to see if you can see any residual chemicals on the book?
I bought them from 7 different sources. I am going to crack one soon and use the black light, look for streaks, etc. I may have left some eraser marks on one or more and forgot to wipe it off? I'm really grasping at straws on this one though, very confused
@@ImproveCollectingComics Keep us posted. It seems like ever since CGC was bought out by Blackstone, the quality of their service went downhill. They lost a comic I submitted to them a couple years ago.
@Improve-Collecting Comics a blacklight would show if there was any chemicals used to clean the cover and that's what cgc checks for and that's why you got a purple label
Dry cleaning is allowed. Wet cleaning is not allowed but Captain Mike and other have said it undetectable. CGC graders are guessing like it looks too clean, etc. Try a resubmission and let us know. People are posting that CGC graders are calling out more books as restored.
I used an eraser and absorene on these books. The notes on all of the books but one say "staining," which shows I did not wet clean or use the light box. How can there be staining and restoration cleaning? Makes no sense.
That is scary. I do my own cpr now I'm reluctant to send my silver and golden age books. I know cgc is hitting books treated with peroxide and blue light with restored labels. This does not bother me much because I have seen unnaturally bleach white books with blue labels and something has to be done about it. But dry clean restored? That is not right.
I actually have nothing against peroxide, it seems to brighten books and make them less "hazy." However, I haven't used it in 6 months because it can make books brittle. I popped some staples and had a spine split from it, so I only use distilled water now
@@ImproveCollectingComics then wasn’t you. Prior person did some voodoo then. The main giveaway is they look glossier than they should and typically there is a scent
I sent some stuff in a while ago which were cleaned & pressed which got a blue label so i think you got the grader on a bad day. I would think if you sent them in again you would get the blue label
CGC is all over the place, we can all agree that grading is subjective but a restored lable for cleaning is just wrong, sorry my guy, thanks for the info as always.
Yeah, the ironic thing is that I was scared to use the light box on these since I popped a couple staples a few months ago. The box makes pages brittle until you hydrate them for the press. Silver age is way too fragile IMO. So I I've only been dry cleaning and pressing silver age for the past 4 or 5 months
I agree. These books had obviously never been cleaned or pressed before I owned them. Most still have some soiling and the notes mention staining on nearly all of them. A real cluster imo
@@ImproveCollectingComics I hate to say it but I think if you resubmitted them they probably wouldn't come back purple. As that would mean they aren't paying attention as much as they should.
I've got an awesome classic comic in CGC restored grade which was graded in 2018. It has other grader notes but three cleaning ones include "Cover cleaning (High quality) A-1", "Interior lightening (High quality) A-1" and "Staple cleaned A-1". There's other stuff like reinforcement to centerfold, cover and interior that I'm not sure what the deal is. Forensic analysis of books which are older or more valuable makes sense but not sure where the line is or should be drawn. Cleaning staples makes more sense to me as a restored classification as you'd likely have to remove metal to make it present better, even if it's microns. Cover cleaning idk... are they looks at the microscopic level of the plant cells/paper fibre? A clean and press sounds dangerous for older comics.
I have been seeing and hearing this concern with cgc purples - maybe because of bled process or humidity process. im all theory boss. Your guess is better than mine
Yeah. Ironically, I used no BLED on these. All but one still have staining.. it's even in the notes. I actually only used peroxide twice on silver age and they became brittle and the staples popped. So I stopped using it, like 6 months ago. I only use distilled water now. And I am going to not sure the light box at all for awhile, and await clarification from CGC.
So CGC allows cleaning and pressing but they give out purple labels. However if you pet them for pressing it a blue label. More than a few people have seen this. Simply stupid.
With the minimal amount of cleaning I do, it's pretty impossible to tell I even cleaned it. I think this is just a grader having a bad day or a complete accident. I looked the books over again, and I can't find any spot where I damaged the color with an eraser... I'm definitely scratching my head. the worst part is, I'll lose hundreds of dollars by selling these books
@@ImproveCollectingComics I would definitely contact CGC to get an explanation (I doubt they will address it. Or just crack and re submit which if they come back blue that would make for great content. Or submit to another grader. I am starting to learn to clean and this scares the hell out of me. Plus it is very alarming considering they allow cleaning and pressing.
Interesting results. I just ordered the CGC guide but I see others have already posted the quote from CGC about what classifies as restoration. And great results with your grading tool.
Here’s a thought: don’t pay CGC any more money!!! A slabbed book has less value than a raw book because it cannot be read and fully enjoyed. A cleaned and repaired book is better than a dirty ugly book! This change in purple label policy is another calculated money grab - if you pay ccs for cleaning and pressing you get your blue label, if not, watch out. The proper response to this change is to disparage the purple label less, not to resubmit. All of this resubmission with hopes of a tiny grade bump incentivizes CGC to keep their methods subjective and mysterious - they make huge amounts of money off of our greed. I’m never going to pay for a 9.8 if I can get a 9.6 (with one more stress line) for 1/2 the price!
I've gotten 50 economy books back in the last month from back issues I collected in the early 80s. Lots of silver age ASM and other 60s DC/Marvel superhero books. I dry-cleaned and pressed them myself (eraser and cotton pads only - no whitening techniques) and got back no restored labels for cleaning. I did get one restored label for a color touch that I hadn't noticed. So that's my anecdotal experience.
LOL I saw that too while editing. It's just a new phone that was on a weird setting. I forgot to turn one of my lights on as well.. so it's shadowing. I am pretty freckly, so it just looks like a shiner. I am getting old too, so the bags under the eyes after not getting enough sleep..
Funny story. Same thing happened to me. I submitted a total of 5 books. 2 were cleaned and pressed along with having the cover whitened. 2 were case cracked and just pressed. The last book was bought from eBay with a BIN price of $39. Every book came back with the same exact graders notes. Restoration cover heavily cleaned interior whitened. Some books even included heavy staining to cover. So not only was the cover cleaned there was also heavy staining to the cover.
@@ImproveCollectingComics kicker is this. I wasn’t as mad with the cleaned books… but I was VERY mad at the other 3 that had nothing done to them except a press that got the same purple label. It shows they haven’t a clue what they are talking about. I cracked the ASM 238 that I worked on. Put the pages side by side with a Dazzler #1 I bought for $4.99 on eBay. The page quality was identical. No difference. So unless the seller on eBay spent 3 hours per page whitening them and turned around and sold it for $4.99 or what I did brought the pages back to what they originally were I can’t be 100% certain… but I can tell you CGC’s graders aren’t very well trained.
I would resubmit and request CGC to clean and press and hopefully it will come back as a blue lable. I press and clean my books to so please do a follow up video on what you decide to ultimately do on these purple labels. What a shame....the grader had a bad night prior...LOL!
I'm still learning on this and a lot of people think these books may have been "restored" before I got them. I have a lot more info now and will be taking a hard look at them
This could be a case of batch grading as seen on mint-hunter comics channel. Sometimes cgc seems to get lazy and just blanket multiple similar age/title books with the same grade/notes. So one of the books could have been restored but the rest were just lazily graded the same.
Hi there man, just wanted to know what ur experience has been with cgc on ink smears on comic covers because I have a ww1 (george Perez) in fantastic condition, has to be nm but has bits of ink smear on the right side of the comic, certainly doesn't look bad tho and can easily be missed with eye contact unless ur focusing on it and it obviously is a defect that came with the book and isn't human error. Thanks.
I would look for other copies out there that have the same defect. If you find some, it likely wouldn't count against the grade. Otherwise, it depends on the size of the smear. For example, a tiny one might make a 9.2 a 9.0 but a large one could make a 9.0 a 7.0. From what you told me, my wild guess would be that it'd make a 9.2 an 8.5. But once again, I'm not a professional grader.. this is based on my amateur experience.
I really hope you reach out to them and find out. That seems like a complete mistake or some harsh criticism of someone having a bad day! But makes absolute no sense to do that when they themselves offer a service doing cleaning and pressing 🤦🏻♂️ however, knowing how they can be, they’re probably doing that because they don’t want us cleaning and pressing our own comics and pay them for it! So please dig more into this and keep us informed.
1/2 of my silver age books came back purple label, saying cover cleaned. The only thing I can assume from this is that there was a stark contrast from the outside cover compared to the inside cover
I know that can be an indicator, but I have books in my PC that I bought off the stands in the 80's that are off white on the inside with pristine white covers. Sometimes the inner pages yellow and the cover doesn't.
This was supposed to be a PC book. I may crack it, may sell it, may keep it.. not sure yet. Please email me at jim@improvecollecting.com and I'll let you know if I decide to sell.
Can you confirm what exactly you did to each book? Only dry cleaning? Also, send one of the books back through another account (friend or presser) and see if you get a blue label back.
The longer I do this, the more minimalist my process is. This my ENTIRE process on every book. I first wipe down the books with makeup pads. I then use an absorene pad lightly if the soil is heavy or moderate. If it's light soiling I use a white eraser only. I don't mess with colored areas except with the absorene pad unless it's a known book or color that is notorious for color loss.. like yellow or some mid 80's DC books (Infinity Inc for example). I then hotshot and press. After the first press I will repair defects with a tack iron if the book isn't brittle. On these books I only used it on the 62, the rest were too fragile. I then do a couple more light pressure "drying" presses if I used any moisture. Then, cold press for at least a week, sometimes two, to make sure no reversion is happening. Off to CGC. I have been on pause with stain removal for awhile, until I get clarification from CGC. I tried peroxide like 6-7 months ago but found it made the pages brittle.. so I stopped. If I do whiten I do HOP or lightbox with distilled water misted onto the books. It's not as effective but it does work. These books had no whitening done.
@@ImproveCollectingComics Interesting, outside of the Hotshot, basically everything I do to my PCH books and have recieved all Blue. Curious what you mean by Hotshot?
I had a pretty rough copy of Iron Man #1 recently graded by CGC. It was cleaned and pressed, and the grader's notes stated that there was a "cleaning solution" on the back cover. I still received a blue label on the book. I just think it lowed the overall grade received, but at least it didn't get a purple label. Getting a purple label on a CGC-graded comic is a nightmare.
They continually change the rules because they are the gatekeepers. When you own the gold, you make the rules. This is exactly why I say that this part of the market needs more competition. Technically, there are only two graders. The few other that exist, are not trusted.
Maybe the books were cleaned before they ended up in your possession. Ultraviolet light in a dark room can be used to find some areas of restoration... at least it works on paintings. Baumgartner restorations works on painting conservation primarily but he shows how he uses the light in his videos.
I've been using a lot of the same techniques as you and I too have been getting some purple label books back from CGC.....all silver age. I don't have problems with anything newer than silver so I'm wondering if there is something with the inks and paper quality from that era that is more revealing to the grader. But like your submission, a group of ten silver age books all cleaned and pressed the same way can come back 6 blue/4 purple....which is very inconsistent. I haven't figured out a pattern or a way to tell why just yet. It definitely has me rethinking how I approach silver age books now. I just sent one in with just some eraser and Absorene cleaning on it, nothing else. If that one comes back purple, I don't know what to do. :( For what it's worth though, I did crack open the CGC purples and send them to CBCS and they came back as blues.
I think the graders are being pressured to look for more chemical cleaning, and are erring on the side of caution. They are screwing over people in the process
@@ImproveCollectingComics There has been some unconfirmed chatter that CGC has been using an AI scanner to aid in detecting restoration. It is not used to fully grade the comic, but as a supplemental tool to help the grader confirm or dismiss a suspicion. Still doesn't explain the inconsistencies though.
would love to see a followup video on these books and what you discover about purple labels also will you resubmit one just to see if you can flip the purple to blue? these books are awesome!
I do wipe down books with distilled water sometimes, gets rid of dust and takes the place of invasive humidity chambers. Virtually invisible streaks on the books may be the culprit
I don't understand how cleaning would qualify as either restoration or conservation. If they mean cleaning damage then they should say that, although I find it weird that they ascribe the intention of "cleaning" to whatever they see. How do they know what caused what. This is worth a phone call
Not sure if it was mentioned but my first thought was that it was wet cleaned by someone before they got to you. That would garner a purple label and a “cover cleaned” due to the book being disassembled to be wet cleaned, and not the conserved label. I’m going to say I’m 95% sure this was the case and the purple labels had nothing to do with what you subsequently did to the books after getting them
I got the books from 7 different sources and it was pretty obvious they had never been cleaned or pressed. The only iffy one might be the 62. It is exceptionally white and could have been treated in some way
Typically it means that you used something other than dry cleaning. From what I’ve seen in your prior videos it seems that you use the immaculate cleaning process or something similar for wet cleaning and whitening. You have the one from kaptain Myke linked in your video. He also got caught with this and got a bunch of purple labels from what I understand from a Facebook group post. When I’ve seen people get caught with this it’s when the cover looks much brighter than the interior. Or the cover is just abnormally bright/white. There is a risk you’re taking using that process, especially with older books that might have less white pages where it sticks out more.
Thanks for the comment, I'm glad you brought it up. I do use many of Rick's products, like the chamfered pressing board and the squarebound protector.. but I don't use immacuclean, peroxide, or any chemicals. I tried that stuff on a test book like 7 months ago and found that it didn't really help enough to make it worth it. Distilled water seemed to work just as well. I do whitening, but it's with HOP or the lightbox and distilled water. Of course, I didn't do that on these books. The stains are still on there. The lightbox is too harsh on fragile books, so I don't chance it. The notes mention staining on the books on all but one... so no whitening has been done by me or anyone previously. I did record videos of myself grading these books right after I bought them, before I did any work. I published them on my channel months ago. The books look exactly the same as they did then, minus the wrinkles.
I wonder if CGC thinks your 'cleaning' went into the category of 'stain removal', which I believe does get the dreaded purple label. This makes me afraid to send off my PGX 9.2 X-men #50 for a deep clean so I can then get a Steranko signature with a yellow CGC label. As always, enjoy the content!! Keep the videos coming!! You've got, by far, the best content that I've found. It's actually useful info rather than regurgitating some random Top 5.
I am not sure, this can't be it though since the stains are still on the books I sent in.. the CGC notes say "stains" on all but one of the books. GL with the submission and thanks for the kind words!
That is just a strange note. Going to look through CGC book about cleaning... I can sympathize with your confusion about cleaning. I'm definitely confused.
Yeah they note "cleaning" then also note the stains on the book. The stains that would have been removed with methods other than dry cleaning. So definitely an odd situation
Yeah I know I know.. but most don't seem to mind. I also edited out like 15 minutes from this video lol. I did include chapter to make navigation easier.
Someone wrote me yesterday and said I may have left streaks with absorene or a water wipedown.. very possible. I am cracking one of them this week and taking a close look for streaks.
@@ImproveCollectingComics Thats what I was thinking too. Because I think you mentioned before that you used the cleaning solution from immaculate comics? I know the few books Ive done with that left streaks and unless I wiped the whole cover down with distilled water after the solution dried a little, you would see where the book had the solution on it in the right light angle.
It’s a shame there isn’t more competition in the 3rd party grader market. CGC has and still is setting the standard. It seems like a many collectors look at CGC as the standard bearers. Now CGC will do whatever it wants and we will complain but it doesn’t matter because CGC knows collectors will continue to use their services over others. So this is why CGC can continue to change the standards. Some of us are such snobs when it comes to collecting. Many turn their noses up if they see a purple or whatever other color denotes a perceived negative about a comic. Now that cleaning and pressing is seen as a purple label worthy act collectors will have to adjust their stance on purple label slabs. Purple labels will be the new norm and all of you CGC devotees will fall in line. This channel is EXCELLENT. It really is. Your grading tool is excellent I wouldn’t change a thing. I’ve used it to get an estimate on my collection of raws (I have three slabs but I purchased them already slabbed). I really want to thank you for providing great information. You are a great ambassador for the hobby.
Nope, got them off e-bay. In fact, two were from original owners and one was from a collection that was passed down to the son. They had obviously been untouched for decades. Incidentally, one of the books had writing on the inside on the first page, unmentioned in the notes.
CGC, in an effort to decrease waiting time, has done away with quality control. Not much makes sense with them anymore. Also, their rush to process ends up in damage to a lot of books, for which, of course, they are not liable. My opinion, after more than 600 books with them. Too bad CBCS is even worse for other reasons.
If you bought them from same seller I think that’s your answer. Otherwise I’d be getting in touch with CGC and asking a LOT of questions. If you are using dry erasers they shouldn’t be labelling as restored or conserved. If you are using anything with chemicals in it (some people use dry eraser or similar products) then that becomes problematic and detectable
Erasers and sometimes an absorene pad, both dry cleaning.. I do add distilled water to dents, creases, etc.. but I think that is fine. I don't use any chemicals. I tried peroxide late last summer on a couple books, but noticed it can make the paper brittle. I popped a couple staples and don't use it anymore.
I have 5 silver and bronze books coming back today, after third-party pressing and cleaning, and all are blue label. I've had 200 go through this process since I started a year ago and have received two purples and one conserved - one purple had a small color touch and one had three sides trimmed (oof). The conserved was staple replacement with staples of the correct era.
Thanks for the info. I definitely thing I got a misguided/inexperienced grader. I will probably resubmit a couple at some point. I am not sure if I may be flagged now? I hope not, because it's undeserved :(
I saw on cgc chat board someone started a thread about this sort of thing happening so I posted a link to your video. They seem to think you missed the restoration that may have been done prior to you perchasing the books.
I got them from multiple sources on e-bay, and 3 of them had a story behind them. One was from a collection passed down to a son. Two were from an elderly gentleman who bought them in the 60's and had them in his collection untouched since the 70's. They had obviously never been cleaned or pressed. Out of the 7 books, they had very little soiling but all but one had some staining. I only dry cleaned with an eraser and absorene, but in a limited way. There is still some soiling that I thought were in fragile areas so I left them alone. The notes will confirm that there is staining and thus no chemicals or whitening used.
Whether they admit it or not, I have heard that CGC is cracking down on cleaning and pressing. It could also have nothing to do with what you did. I would go back to the person who sold it to you. The term "cover cleaned" typically involves either a submersion bath in solvents, or water, or both separately. You or the previous owner washed the gloss out, basically.
I'm wondering if your name is "flagged" at CGC. You have quite a few followers on here and like other youtube channels who do clean and pressing maybe they flag your submissions. I wonder if you submit those books under a different first/last name if they come back blue label. Cheers
Do you black light your books, to see if anything is on them before you clean and press them. I've had light marker ink on some of my books in the past that's real hard to see. Just wondering
I bought a black light last month and now check for restoration. I received an Iron man 2 back that had color touch. I removed the color touch and am resubmitting soon. A video is in the works
Thanks for showing more about these purple labeled books. Goes to my last question on your last video: For us, we can't really understand why they were given purple labels if we don't know exactly what you did. If you didn't use any cleaning chemical agents, then there shouldn't be any issue. I'm going to have to go to your website to see exactly what you do. I like how someone else though that maybe these books already had some type of chemical residue from the previous owner that was detected by CGC. I would have definitely contacted CGC to see if they could provide you with more details and context.
Thanks for the comment. I dry cleaned the books, except I use distilled water/humidification on bends, ticks, and other defects. I noticed a couple of the purple label books had streaks on them that I was able to wipe off with a makeup pad. I am guessing the water left the streaks.. or it was caused by eraser marks. Whichever, it was sloppy on my part. I now thoroughly wipe all books down with makeup pads before submitting. I am almost certain it was those streaks on the books that made the grader think "chemicals"
CGC says: :Non-additive procedures, such as pressing, dry cleaning, and tape / substance / restoration removal are not classified as restoration by CGC." So, what I am wondering is whether you purchased books which had been 'wet cleaned' by a previous owner. You may be paying for a previous owner's restoration efforts, and there was nothing wrong with yours at all.
Oh yeah depends if he wet cleaned or if prior person wet cleaned 🧼
What is wet clean?
@@Teezythadon "Water Cleaning
Water cleaning, our wet cleaning, is considered restoration since it adds something to that book detectable with the proper equipment (CGC and CBCS use this equipment). The cover is separated from the rest of the book with water cleaning.
The water cleaning method I have witnessed uses a gentle water sprayer with the water and a mild cleaning agent, running down or across the cover for an hour or two - the process causing the paper to become so soaked that it almost becomes transparent. There is also an extensive drying process. "
@@Teezythadon "Solvent Cleaning
Solvent cleaning involves using a chemical agent to whiten the cover or pages. There are a few different methods for cleaning with solvents. One is to use a mister spray bottle to apply the solvent. With this sprayer, the mist falls onto the comic instead of squirting directly onto the book. This method allows the book to dry faster, reducing the chance that it will cause the cover to become wavy or appear to have a lot of small finger indentions. It also keeps the solvent from soaking its way into the pages underneath.
The second type of solvent cleaning uses a chemical that activates when heated. The solvent applied to the book makes it damp. Then, using heat from the pressing device, the chemical whitens the cover.
Another popular solvent cleaning is using a chemical placed on the comic and put in a “lightbox” that activates the chemical. The results are marvelous. Like the other cleaning methods, this method takes patience and time to learn the technique. "
That all sounds way too complicated. I'll just stick to dry cleaning and pressing. I have no problem with people using spot wetting (HOTSHOT) or humdification. I only use the former and it works great
I must have missed where you described your cleaning method. If it involved anything other than dry dirt removal, such as by eraser, then the use of water to wet the paper or chemicals to alter the color and structure of the paper fiber while removing dirt are now and have always been considered as restoration by the hobby. Any changes to the color inks, paper, and gloss that occur with the use of liquid-based methods for dirt removal are not conserving, as the comic is not at risk of further deterioration if the work isn't done.
As to the marketplace value of comics with purple labels denoting restoration: from reading the experiences of many sellers, I believe that restored comics go for roughly a quarter of an unrestored counterpart. As always, it depends on the issue itself, and quite a bit on the degree and type of restoration performed.
Thanks for the info, I appreciate that. Besides distilled water, I don't use any other liquid on books.
100% wet cleaning, so the color rubs off because the “gloss” wasn’t as protective back then. If you look very closely you’ll see tiny white spots and that is a clear sign that they were wet cleaned.
If you’re going to clean, wet or dry, you have to make sure it’s as sparingly as possible. You need to press in between any wet cleaning, you cannot press hard during cleaning, do as much dry cleaning as possible…
Thanks for the ifno, I'll look for that on the books!
If it's only cover cleaning, it should be conserved....quite honestly, if no chemicals are used, it should be Universal imo.
However.....
If they find cleaning chemicals....that should DEFINITELY be Restoration.
I agree completely
I have heard that buffing post wet cleaning with microfiber or an old wool sock 😂 brings back shine, and perhaps clears away streaks.
Makeup pads are what I use, gets rid of a lot of streaks and such.. not sure about bringing back a shine though, never seen that... not sure why a book would be hazy in the first place. Maybe because of a chemical? Dunno... not something I have to worry about really
CGC needs to reevaluate what Restored and Conserved mean. If I buy a 57 Chevy, and run it through the car wash, I did not restore that car
Exactly
I still don't quite see the point of paying for CGC appraisals unless it's to help sell the books?
And maybe they're going to adopt the 'rules' that are used for appraisal of 'currency', where ironing (flattening) bills and cleaning coins is considered 'restoration'?
You fetch a higher FMV usually, is the main reason most do it. Secondary is the preservation inside the encapsulation.
I would resubmit all the purple labels if they all say cover cleaned .
I thought about it but ran the numbers, dollar wise it's better to just sell them as purples. If I was 100% sure they'd get blue the second time, it'd be better to resubmit.. but that's not guaranteed. The going rate is like 55-60% value.. I will either hold or take the loss, but not going to dwell on it much longer. This stuff is depressing lol
I don't know - this seems like a one-time oddball occurrence, considering how many books you sumbit that you do your own work on....
I sure hope so. I am going to almost exclusively stick to copper from now on, with the occasional bronze. Silver is hard and you have to deal with this type of stuff
@@ImproveCollectingComics One one hand, I was thinking oddball shit like this can happen. On the other, you should not have to pay to resubmit them to get the blue instead of purple label....
Purple label worth roughly 50% less
Yeah looks to be 50-60% fmv for mid grade
very nice set of books there
Thanks!
Usually cleaning restoration involves chemicals sounds like the type of cleaning you did should’ve been fine.
I think they are over-reacting to the increased number of people using restorative cleaning techniques. I got punished for buying whiter than average books maybe? I cracked a couple to resubmit, we'll see what happens.
If you give the covers a light wipe over with a damp wet (Water only) clean microfibre cloth, it cleans the soiling off without affecting the ink colours or gloss of the cover. However, would this be considered restoration or conservation?
Water only is definitely allowed. I am not positive, but am pretty sure that almost all pro services humidify books.. essentially adding moisture to the entire book before presses. I am not sure if CCS uses moisture, but wouldn't be surprised. I only spot add moisture to defects, I don't use humidity. Sometimes I'll lightly wipe down an entire cover with a hint of distilled water, if there are significant defects... never enough for it to really be called "wet" though.
@@ImproveCollectingComics That's what I would have thought. Taking the soiling off the covers is not restoration. I"m scared to send any Silver Age books in now. I hope you find out what happened and have them re-graded to blue label (At no extra charge). It is a shame cause they are really nice grade books. Best of Luck
Now crack one and send it back and get the Cgc clean and press service and see if it comes back purple
I may do that.. but I hate to give them more money on these books, they have already cost me hundreds
Watch some videos from top comics pressing. He does a lot of older books from the 60’s and 70’s. He generally gets grade bumps on his books.
I'll check it out, thanks!
Send them back as a mechanical error
Wouldn't they just replace them with a purple label again?
If some sort of harsh cleaning technique was used....the previous seller must have done it. And you got nailed on it....unfortunately.
All but one still have staining.. it's even in the notes. They were obviously never cleaned or pressed.
@@ImproveCollectingComics interesting. Just seems a case of a previous owner or the seller...doing some sort of harsh cleaning techniques that would constitute a restored grade. Would definitely be interesting to see what cgc says.
Yeah that is garbage man. I think you'd take too much of a hit leaving em purple. Probably better off cracking em and selling un-slabbed. Your personal grading seems to be dead on. Just sell em raw personally graded.
If there's still enough money left to make it worth while for you, crack em & re-submit em. Kinda sucks losing twice the submission fees, but possibly the best answer.
I think you're right, I'm still mulling over what to do
What grading tool are you using? I struggle with inconsistency between people grading and your tool seems to be right in CGCs ballpark. I’d be interested to know. Thanks
It's one I created, the video about it and link is here: th-cam.com/video/GfJVIJ9-nhk/w-d-xo.html
For transparency...did you use the blue light/peroxide whitening method? This may clarify things for your viewers to determine whether CGC is able to distinguish that method. Or were the "restored" books dry cleaned the old fashioned way?
That's the ironic thing. I did use the lightbox on some silver ages like 5-6 months ago. Unfortunately, it makes the books a bit brittle. I had some popped staples so I stopped doing that. Now, I only dry clean and press silvers.
Just to clarify, I only used an eraser and absorene pads on these books. The CGC notes even mention staining on nearly every books
@Improve-Collecting Comics I've followed you for a while and recalled that you previously did the treatments.
I was curious if the affected books were as well, which may have contributed to the restored grades. Knowing that they were only dry cleaned is very concerning and brings awareness to the community. Thanks for the clarification and for your great content.
I’ve come to the conclusion that whoever the graders are for the economy tier at CGC have no idea what they’re doing. Those purple labels are BS. I just got back an avengers 87 that I bought from dale robert comics website, pretty credible guys, as a raw 9.0. I got the book and agreed it was right around a 9.0. I got it pressed for good measure and CGC graded it a 6.5 🤨 There is absolutely no way in hell that it is a 6.5. I don’t know what the hell is going on over there, if there just rushing to get books out or what but something needs to change. The fact the gave half your books blue labels and half purple because of “cover cleaning” is an absolute joke
I always thought economy was known as the best graders... we definitely need to rethink that. I'm very sorry about your Avengers 87, I am a big fan of yellow covers. Email me some pics if you want another opinion. jim@improvecollecting.com
@@ImproveCollectingComics definitely will buddy! I’ll have it in hand tomorrow and I’ll shoot over some pics. It’s weird the graders notes were the same as a 9.0 I got back a month or so ago
Same thing happened with me for s early daredevil. It was absolutely a 9.4+. I got a 7.0. They said there was a big crease across the book (there was no such thing) and stains all over. (There wasn't)
I'm going to stick to moderns from now on I guess because that's insane. It looked better than a lot of moderns I get yet they so clearly graded it incorrectly.
@@spencers3935 just got it back and there is absolutely no way it’s a 6.5. CGC needs to get there shit together
I no longer trust CGC, I’m certain you know how to properly clean books. I send all my comics to EGS, yes they are a smaller company and currently not great for resale but I trust their process, something I used to have with CGC.
Thanks for the info, I'll look into them
Either they were done with an LED box or overlay process by someone before you. Or CGC is screwing up again up like they have been. Cgc is a garbage dump these days.
Yeah they were not restored before me.. it was pretty obvious. I used an eraser and an absorene pad only. No wet cleaning or light box. In fact, the notes on all but one book say "staining"
The grading of cleaned and pressed books is very very inconsistent. I've gotten books back lately with purple labels and I've gotten bad books back with blue universal labels that have been chemically cleaned and whitened. So it is extremely bad grading right now with CGC and very inconsistent. If anything it should be a Gray conserved label because you didn't add anything to the book all you did was remove.
I totally agree!
I own 7 slabs that I purchased 1 CBCS and 6 CGC the rest of my 3500 collection is RAW!!! I have never submitted a book for grading and don’t know if I ever will.
I am seriously considering switching companies or going back to raw. I still like reading books occasionally :)
So how do you feel about this? I had a cgc 9.0 asm 129 blue label. Cracked and had cleaned and press. Nothing drastic. Resubmitted and came back a 9.0 purple label for APPARENT top edge trimmed. But it’s not. Never was. So what do I do next. Crack and resubmit to cgc again. Wait a few months and resubmit. Or go elsewhere.
Ug... that really sucks, that's like worst case scenario, I'm sorry. I would wait a couple of months and resubmit. There are probably only a few graders that touch those higher end books, so there's a chance you'd get the same guy. It'd suck to get him again and have him recognize the book. I'd wait awhile to make sure it's gone from his memory lol.
Oh, and are you sure the top edge wasn't trimmed? I'd be interested in seeing a photo jim@improvecollecting.com, or send the CGC number if there are photos in the system
I wish purple labels weren’t looked at as a bad thing. But a clean and press is not a restoration. I’m guessing the person was new or cgc changed policies without telling anyone.
Professional restoration is a thing of beauty.
Very possible
I would put these books under some UV lights to see if they'd been cleaned with a solvent/detergent (I believe that is how CGC/CBCS is detecting). Most (not all) solvents and detergents will fluoresce under UV lighting. That's not to say it was actually cleaned as many things will fluoresce that have nothing to do with cleaning. Seems like you got a bad break on those books but it is possible to get that removed although after spending that much on getting them slabbed its tough to determine if its worth it.
I looked at them under a UV light and they look the same as my blue label books, some that I bought.. one was slabbed in 2004. Of course, I have no idea what I am looking for, but I can't see anything out of the ordinary.
@@ImproveCollectingComics Any solution/detergent should be apparent under UV (usually bright blue). If there is nothing on the covers its possible its on the interior or the grader was having a bad day and took it out on your books.
If dry cleaning and pressing was only done...and nothing extreme like wet cleaning and maybe even whitening...these books should not be purple label at all. I would dispute these. It would be worth it to do so and have a follow up video on it. Be real interesting.
Yeah, eraser and absorene only. I am calling tomorrow.
@@ImproveCollectingComics I use both of those tools as well. And there's also a special sponge that I use that I can typically get dirt off of color with. Can't remember the name off the top of my head though lol.
I find this a really strange unboxing. Unless they have changed the way they determine "cleaned", I find this a very strange situation. We should be seeing all sorts of purple labels on upcoming unboxings if they are doing things differently. Maybe someone before you used some chemical solvent CGC can detect? Did you try a black light to see if you can see any residual chemicals on the book?
I bought them from 7 different sources. I am going to crack one soon and use the black light, look for streaks, etc. I may have left some eraser marks on one or more and forgot to wipe it off? I'm really grasping at straws on this one though, very confused
I don't think a dry earaser would justify a green label either, unless they changed things, which we should see all over youtube soon.
Does CBCS allow books to be pressed and cleaned and still be considered "original" or is it "restoration" in their eyes?
As far as I know, all grading companies allow cleaning and pressing
@@ImproveCollectingComics Keep us posted. It seems like ever since CGC was bought out by Blackstone, the quality of their service went downhill. They lost a comic I submitted to them a couple years ago.
Did you try putting a blacklight on it? Someone before you could have cleaned it with chemicals
A black light wouldn't show this? And the books had staining, dirt, etc. All but one still have staining.. it's even in the notes
@Improve-Collecting Comics a blacklight would show if there was any chemicals used to clean the cover and that's what cgc checks for and that's why you got a purple label
Cleaning noted on the label is when CGC detects "Chemical Cleaning", not dry cleaning.
Yeah.. strange to detect something that didn't happen. I didn't even humidify these books. I just dry cleaned, pressed 24 hours, and submitted.
Dry cleaning is allowed. Wet cleaning is not allowed but Captain Mike and other have said it undetectable. CGC graders are guessing like it looks too clean, etc. Try a resubmission and let us know. People are posting that CGC graders are calling out more books as restored.
I used an eraser and absorene on these books. The notes on all of the books but one say "staining," which shows I did not wet clean or use the light box. How can there be staining and restoration cleaning? Makes no sense.
That is scary. I do my own cpr now I'm reluctant to send my silver and golden age books. I know cgc is hitting books treated with peroxide and blue light with restored labels. This does not bother me much because I have seen unnaturally bleach white books with blue labels and something has to be done about it. But dry clean restored? That is not right.
I actually have nothing against peroxide, it seems to brighten books and make them less "hazy." However, I haven't used it in 6 months because it can make books brittle. I popped some staples and had a spine split from it, so I only use distilled water now
Dry cleaning will never be an issue. Anything else like whitening or wet cleaning and you are risking a purple label
I only used dry cleaning on these books.
@@ImproveCollectingComics then wasn’t you. Prior person did some voodoo then. The main giveaway is they look glossier than they should and typically there is a scent
I sent some stuff in a while ago which were cleaned & pressed which got a blue label so i think you got the grader on a bad day. I would think if you sent them in again you would get the blue label
CGC is all over the place, we can all agree that grading is subjective but a restored lable for cleaning is just wrong, sorry my guy, thanks for the info as always.
Yeah, the ironic thing is that I was scared to use the light box on these since I popped a couple staples a few months ago. The box makes pages brittle until you hydrate them for the press. Silver age is way too fragile IMO. So I I've only been dry cleaning and pressing silver age for the past 4 or 5 months
Maybe they think an additive was used but who knows. For restoration grade they should give a more in depth notes.
I agree. These books had obviously never been cleaned or pressed before I owned them. Most still have some soiling and the notes mention staining on nearly all of them. A real cluster imo
@@ImproveCollectingComics I hate to say it but I think if you resubmitted them they probably wouldn't come back purple. As that would mean they aren't paying attention as much as they should.
I've got an awesome classic comic in CGC restored grade which was graded in 2018. It has other grader notes but three cleaning ones include "Cover cleaning (High quality) A-1", "Interior lightening (High quality) A-1" and "Staple cleaned A-1". There's other stuff like reinforcement to centerfold, cover and interior that I'm not sure what the deal is. Forensic analysis of books which are older or more valuable makes sense but not sure where the line is or should be drawn. Cleaning staples makes more sense to me as a restored classification as you'd likely have to remove metal to make it present better, even if it's microns. Cover cleaning idk... are they looks at the microscopic level of the plant cells/paper fibre? A clean and press sounds dangerous for older comics.
Restored cleaned? Jeebus
Yeah definitely bizarre stuff
I have been seeing and hearing this concern with cgc purples - maybe because of bled process or humidity process. im all theory boss. Your guess is better than mine
Yeah. Ironically, I used no BLED on these. All but one still have staining.. it's even in the notes. I actually only used peroxide twice on silver age and they became brittle and the staples popped. So I stopped using it, like 6 months ago. I only use distilled water now. And I am going to not sure the light box at all for awhile, and await clarification from CGC.
Oh man
Send them back in…
So CGC allows cleaning and pressing but they give out purple labels. However if you pet them for pressing it a blue label. More than a few people have seen this. Simply stupid.
With the minimal amount of cleaning I do, it's pretty impossible to tell I even cleaned it. I think this is just a grader having a bad day or a complete accident. I looked the books over again, and I can't find any spot where I damaged the color with an eraser... I'm definitely scratching my head. the worst part is, I'll lose hundreds of dollars by selling these books
@@ImproveCollectingComics I would definitely contact CGC to get an explanation (I doubt they will address it. Or just crack and re submit which if they come back blue that would make for great content.
Or submit to another grader. I am starting to learn to clean and this scares the hell out of me. Plus it is very alarming considering they allow cleaning and pressing.
I wonder if anyone other than CGC that cleans it gets the purple label, and if you have them done when sent to CGC, they get the blue label...? 🤔
Interesting results. I just ordered the CGC guide but I see others have already posted the quote from CGC about what classifies as restoration. And great results with your grading tool.
Very cool, thanks for the feedback!
Here’s a thought: don’t pay CGC any more money!!! A slabbed book has less value than a raw book because it cannot be read and fully enjoyed. A cleaned and repaired book is better than a dirty ugly book! This change in purple label policy is another calculated money grab - if you pay ccs for cleaning and pressing you get your blue label, if not, watch out. The proper response to this change is to disparage the purple label less, not to resubmit. All of this resubmission with hopes of a tiny grade bump incentivizes CGC to keep their methods subjective and mysterious - they make huge amounts of money off of our greed. I’m never going to pay for a 9.8 if I can get a 9.6 (with one more stress line) for 1/2 the price!
Yeah, you are probably right on all counts
I just subscribed to your channel.
Thanks!
I've gotten 50 economy books back in the last month from back issues I collected in the early 80s. Lots of silver age ASM and other 60s DC/Marvel superhero books. I dry-cleaned and pressed them myself (eraser and cotton pads only - no whitening techniques) and got back no restored labels for cleaning. I did get one restored label for a color touch that I hadn't noticed. So that's my anecdotal experience.
Thanks for the feedback. They definitely overstepped on this one. I'll be calling them tomorrow.
Found myself watching through whole video waiting for you to explain the shiner that you got.
Never talk about fight club
LOL I saw that too while editing. It's just a new phone that was on a weird setting. I forgot to turn one of my lights on as well.. so it's shadowing. I am pretty freckly, so it just looks like a shiner. I am getting old too, so the bags under the eyes after not getting enough sleep..
@@ImproveCollectingComics "I'm getting old." Tell me about it . . .
Funny story. Same thing happened to me. I submitted a total of 5 books. 2 were cleaned and pressed along with having the cover whitened. 2 were case cracked and just pressed. The last book was bought from eBay with a BIN price of $39. Every book came back with the same exact graders notes. Restoration cover heavily cleaned interior whitened. Some books even included heavy staining to cover. So not only was the cover cleaned there was also heavy staining to the cover.
My notes had staining as well.. I guess I both got rid of the stains and somehow kept the stains? lol
@@ImproveCollectingComics kicker is this. I wasn’t as mad with the cleaned books… but I was VERY mad at the other 3 that had nothing done to them except a press that got the same purple label. It shows they haven’t a clue what they are talking about. I cracked the ASM 238 that I worked on. Put the pages side by side with a Dazzler #1 I bought for $4.99 on eBay. The page quality was identical. No difference. So unless the seller on eBay spent 3 hours per page whitening them and turned around and sold it for $4.99 or what I did brought the pages back to what they originally were I can’t be 100% certain… but I can tell you CGC’s graders aren’t very well trained.
Thanks for your channel! And btw you never ramble ;-)
Thanks!
I would resubmit and request CGC to clean and press and hopefully it will come back as a blue lable. I press and clean my books to so please do a follow up video on what you decide to ultimately do on these purple labels. What a shame....the grader had a bad night prior...LOL!
I'm still learning on this and a lot of people think these books may have been "restored" before I got them. I have a lot more info now and will be taking a hard look at them
This could be a case of batch grading as seen on mint-hunter comics channel. Sometimes cgc seems to get lazy and just blanket multiple similar age/title books with the same grade/notes. So one of the books could have been restored but the rest were just lazily graded the same.
From what I’ve gotten from my cleaner. They’re docking “amateur cleaning” aka not CGC cleaning. Aka they just want more money
Very possible lol
Hi there man, just wanted to know what ur experience has been with cgc on ink smears on comic covers because I have a ww1 (george Perez) in fantastic condition, has to be nm but has bits of ink smear on the right side of the comic, certainly doesn't look bad tho and can easily be missed with eye contact unless ur focusing on it and it obviously is a defect that came with the book and isn't human error. Thanks.
I would look for other copies out there that have the same defect. If you find some, it likely wouldn't count against the grade. Otherwise, it depends on the size of the smear. For example, a tiny one might make a 9.2 a 9.0 but a large one could make a 9.0 a 7.0. From what you told me, my wild guess would be that it'd make a 9.2 an 8.5.
But once again, I'm not a professional grader.. this is based on my amateur experience.
@@ImproveCollectingComics thank you bro for responding 🙏
I really hope you reach out to them and find out. That seems like a complete mistake or some harsh criticism of someone having a bad day! But makes absolute no sense to do that when they themselves offer a service doing cleaning and pressing 🤦🏻♂️ however, knowing how they can be, they’re probably doing that because they don’t want us cleaning and pressing our own comics and pay them for it! So please dig more into this and keep us informed.
Cgc is getting ridiculous
1/2 of my silver age books came back purple label, saying cover cleaned. The only thing I can assume from this is that there was a stark contrast from the outside cover compared to the inside cover
I know that can be an indicator, but I have books in my PC that I bought off the stands in the 80's that are off white on the inside with pristine white covers. Sometimes the inner pages yellow and the cover doesn't.
Covers need to match up. Not so much the pages
Any interest in selling ASM 33 6.5R?
This was supposed to be a PC book. I may crack it, may sell it, may keep it.. not sure yet. Please email me at jim@improvecollecting.com and I'll let you know if I decide to sell.
Looks like I’m going to use something else other than cgc
If cover cleaned is the ONLY thing making it restored I would have them reevaluate the books
Can you confirm what exactly you did to each book? Only dry cleaning?
Also, send one of the books back through another account (friend or presser) and see if you get a blue label back.
The longer I do this, the more minimalist my process is. This my ENTIRE process on every book.
I first wipe down the books with makeup pads. I then use an absorene pad lightly if the soil is heavy or moderate. If it's light soiling I use a white eraser only. I don't mess with colored areas except with the absorene pad unless it's a known book or color that is notorious for color loss.. like yellow or some mid 80's DC books (Infinity Inc for example).
I then hotshot and press. After the first press I will repair defects with a tack iron if the book isn't brittle. On these books I only used it on the 62, the rest were too fragile.
I then do a couple more light pressure "drying" presses if I used any moisture.
Then, cold press for at least a week, sometimes two, to make sure no reversion is happening. Off to CGC.
I have been on pause with stain removal for awhile, until I get clarification from CGC. I tried peroxide like 6-7 months ago but found it made the pages brittle.. so I stopped. If I do whiten I do HOP or lightbox with distilled water misted onto the books. It's not as effective but it does work.
These books had no whitening done.
@@ImproveCollectingComics Interesting, outside of the Hotshot, basically everything I do to my PCH books and have recieved all Blue. Curious what you mean by Hotshot?
I had a pretty rough copy of Iron Man #1 recently graded by CGC. It was cleaned and pressed, and the grader's notes stated that there was a "cleaning solution" on the back cover. I still received a blue label on the book. I just think it lowed the overall grade received, but at least it didn't get a purple label. Getting a purple label on a CGC-graded comic is a nightmare.
Interesting, very glad you avoided the label!
Were any of the returned purple labels cleaned with any liquids? Or just straight dry cleaning methods?
Eraser and absorene pads only
They continually change the rules because they are the gatekeepers. When you own the gold, you make the rules. This is exactly why I say that this part of the market needs more competition. Technically, there are only two graders. The few other that exist, are not trusted.
Maybe the books were cleaned before they ended up in your possession.
Ultraviolet light in a dark room can be used to find some areas of restoration... at least it works on paintings. Baumgartner restorations works on painting conservation primarily but he shows how he uses the light in his videos.
I am almost 100% certain they were never cleaned or pressed
I've been using a lot of the same techniques as you and I too have been getting some purple label books back from CGC.....all silver age. I don't have problems with anything newer than silver so I'm wondering if there is something with the inks and paper quality from that era that is more revealing to the grader. But like your submission, a group of ten silver age books all cleaned and pressed the same way can come back 6 blue/4 purple....which is very inconsistent. I haven't figured out a pattern or a way to tell why just yet. It definitely has me rethinking how I approach silver age books now. I just sent one in with just some eraser and Absorene cleaning on it, nothing else. If that one comes back purple, I don't know what to do. :( For what it's worth though, I did crack open the CGC purples and send them to CBCS and they came back as blues.
I think the graders are being pressured to look for more chemical cleaning, and are erring on the side of caution. They are screwing over people in the process
@@ImproveCollectingComics There has been some unconfirmed chatter that CGC has been using an AI scanner to aid in detecting restoration. It is not used to fully grade the comic, but as a supplemental tool to help the grader confirm or dismiss a suspicion. Still doesn't explain the inconsistencies though.
would love to see a followup video on these books and what you discover about purple labels also will you resubmit one just to see if you can flip the purple to blue? these books are awesome!
I am calling tomorrow and am already planning a followup. There's a CGC forum thread bashing me pretty hard
@@ImproveCollectingComics what would a CGC forum bash you about? not that trolls in a forum really have any rational explanation though hehe 🤷♂
With all the special lights they use, maybe they are constantly detecting residue with all the cleaning chemicals used in the process
I do wipe down books with distilled water sometimes, gets rid of dust and takes the place of invasive humidity chambers. Virtually invisible streaks on the books may be the culprit
I've seen your process, and nothing you do modifies the book. Send it to another grading company.
I am calling tomorrow and planning a followup video
I don't understand how cleaning would qualify as either restoration or conservation.
If they mean cleaning damage then they should say that, although I find it weird that they ascribe the intention of "cleaning" to whatever they see. How do they know what caused what. This is worth a phone call
All the books but one have "staining" in the notes. If I had used the light box, it would have gotten rid of the staining.
i’d be so angry
More dissapointed that I got an inexperienced grader who probably thought he "caught me"
Not sure if it was mentioned but my first thought was that it was wet cleaned by someone before they got to you. That would garner a purple label and a “cover cleaned” due to the book being disassembled to be wet cleaned, and not the conserved label. I’m going to say I’m 95% sure this was the case and the purple labels had nothing to do with what you subsequently did to the books after getting them
I got the books from 7 different sources and it was pretty obvious they had never been cleaned or pressed. The only iffy one might be the 62. It is exceptionally white and could have been treated in some way
@@ImproveCollectingComics well that rules that out. Very befuddling, I’m interested in seeing what comes of this.
Typically it means that you used something other than dry cleaning. From what I’ve seen in your prior videos it seems that you use the immaculate cleaning process or something similar for wet cleaning and whitening. You have the one from kaptain Myke linked in your video. He also got caught with this and got a bunch of purple labels from what I understand from a Facebook group post.
When I’ve seen people get caught with this it’s when the cover looks much brighter than the interior. Or the cover is just abnormally bright/white.
There is a risk you’re taking using that process, especially with older books that might have less white pages where it sticks out more.
Thanks for the comment, I'm glad you brought it up. I do use many of Rick's products, like the chamfered pressing board and the squarebound protector.. but I don't use immacuclean, peroxide, or any chemicals. I tried that stuff on a test book like 7 months ago and found that it didn't really help enough to make it worth it. Distilled water seemed to work just as well.
I do whitening, but it's with HOP or the lightbox and distilled water. Of course, I didn't do that on these books. The stains are still on there. The lightbox is too harsh on fragile books, so I don't chance it. The notes mention staining on the books on all but one... so no whitening has been done by me or anyone previously.
I did record videos of myself grading these books right after I bought them, before I did any work. I published them on my channel months ago. The books look exactly the same as they did then, minus the wrinkles.
I wonder if CGC thinks your 'cleaning' went into the category of 'stain removal', which I believe does get the dreaded purple label. This makes me afraid to send off my PGX 9.2 X-men #50 for a deep clean so I can then get a Steranko signature with a yellow CGC label. As always, enjoy the content!! Keep the videos coming!! You've got, by far, the best content that I've found. It's actually useful info rather than regurgitating some random Top 5.
I am not sure, this can't be it though since the stains are still on the books I sent in.. the CGC notes say "stains" on all but one of the books. GL with the submission and thanks for the kind words!
That is just a strange note. Going to look through CGC book about cleaning... I can sympathize with your confusion about cleaning. I'm definitely confused.
Yeah they note "cleaning" then also note the stains on the book. The stains that would have been removed with methods other than dry cleaning. So definitely an odd situation
Good morning I had a lot of my books get water damage. And the pages are sticking. Do you have a video talking about how to undo this?
I am actually unsure what to do... that's a tricky one.
Tough break I really hope that is not a sign of things to come from CGC should be nothing wrong with cleaning
Unfortunwtely CGC wants you to pay CCS for cleaning and pressing...
Probably lol
Just reclean them and resubmit.
Maybe the two definite PC books, 62 and 33.. but probably just cutting my losses on the others. I may crack them and keep them raw
So if you have CGC clean and press your book would that make it a automatic purple label?
LOL indeed
Rambles on at first, just jump to 6 min mark to save time
Yeah I know I know.. but most don't seem to mind. I also edited out like 15 minutes from this video lol. I did include chapter to make navigation easier.
I think it depends on the materials you used. It probably left some type of wax on the cover.
Someone wrote me yesterday and said I may have left streaks with absorene or a water wipedown.. very possible. I am cracking one of them this week and taking a close look for streaks.
@@ImproveCollectingComics Thats what I was thinking too. Because I think you mentioned before that you used the cleaning solution from immaculate comics? I know the few books Ive done with that left streaks and unless I wiped the whole cover down with distilled water after the solution dried a little, you would see where the book had the solution on it in the right light angle.
They do look very white I guess. They want yellowed I suppose lol
Indeed! I guess we gotta purchase abused books or risk getting PLOD
It’s a shame there isn’t more competition in the 3rd party grader market. CGC has and still is setting the standard. It seems like a many collectors look at CGC as the standard bearers. Now CGC will do whatever it wants and we will complain but it doesn’t matter because CGC knows collectors will continue to use their services over others. So this is why CGC can continue to change the standards.
Some of us are such snobs when it comes to collecting. Many turn their noses up if they see a purple or whatever other color denotes a perceived negative about a comic. Now that cleaning and pressing is seen as a purple label worthy act collectors will have to adjust their stance on purple label slabs. Purple labels will be the new norm and all of you CGC devotees will fall in line.
This channel is EXCELLENT. It really is. Your grading tool is excellent I wouldn’t change a thing. I’ve used it to get an estimate on my collection of raws (I have three slabs but I purchased them already slabbed). I really want to thank you for providing great information. You are a great ambassador for the hobby.
Did you buy all the restored books from one seller? They may have had them cleaned chemically, hence the restored label.
Nope, got them off e-bay. In fact, two were from original owners and one was from a collection that was passed down to the son. They had obviously been untouched for decades. Incidentally, one of the books had writing on the inside on the first page, unmentioned in the notes.
I would honestly call customer service. They'll probably differ in how the graders decided on your books
I am calling tomorrow, hopefully will get through
@@ImproveCollectingComics updates pls 🙏
CGC, in an effort to decrease waiting time, has done away with quality control. Not much makes sense with them anymore. Also, their rush to process ends up in damage to a lot of books, for which, of course, they are not liable. My opinion, after more than 600 books with them. Too bad CBCS is even worse for other reasons.
If you bought them from same seller I think that’s your answer. Otherwise I’d be getting in touch with CGC and asking a LOT of questions. If you are using dry erasers they shouldn’t be labelling as restored or conserved. If you are using anything with chemicals in it (some people use dry eraser or similar products) then that becomes problematic and detectable
Erasers and sometimes an absorene pad, both dry cleaning.. I do add distilled water to dents, creases, etc.. but I think that is fine. I don't use any chemicals. I tried peroxide late last summer on a couple books, but noticed it can make the paper brittle. I popped a couple staples and don't use it anymore.
How the hell do they change their grading standards at this point in the game? CGC has some explaining to do.
I hope it isn't a change and just a big error by a grader.. but who knows
I have 5 silver and bronze books coming back today, after third-party pressing and cleaning, and all are blue label. I've had 200 go through this process since I started a year ago and have received two purples and one conserved - one purple had a small color touch and one had three sides trimmed (oof). The conserved was staple replacement with staples of the correct era.
Thanks for the info. I definitely thing I got a misguided/inexperienced grader. I will probably resubmit a couple at some point. I am not sure if I may be flagged now? I hope not, because it's undeserved :(
I saw on cgc chat board someone started a thread about this sort of thing happening so I posted a link to your video. They seem to think you missed the restoration that may have been done prior to you perchasing the books.
I was wondering the same thing as well...
I got them from multiple sources on e-bay, and 3 of them had a story behind them. One was from a collection passed down to a son. Two were from an elderly gentleman who bought them in the 60's and had them in his collection untouched since the 70's. They had obviously never been cleaned or pressed.
Out of the 7 books, they had very little soiling but all but one had some staining. I only dry cleaned with an eraser and absorene, but in a limited way. There is still some soiling that I thought were in fragile areas so I left them alone.
The notes will confirm that there is staining and thus no chemicals or whitening used.
Whether they admit it or not, I have heard that CGC is cracking down on cleaning and pressing. It could also have nothing to do with what you did. I would go back to the person who sold it to you. The term "cover cleaned" typically involves either a submersion bath in solvents, or water, or both separately. You or the previous owner washed the gloss out, basically.
Yet they offer cleaning and pressing...
And I'm assuming humidification is okay? I don't do it, just curious.
I'm wondering if your name is "flagged" at CGC. You have quite a few followers on here and like other youtube channels who do clean and pressing maybe they flag your submissions. I wonder if you submit those books under a different first/last name if they come back blue label. Cheers
I certainly hope not... but it is what it is. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, if more unfair submissions come back
Jerrythejitterbug may be able to help you
Do you black light your books, to see if anything is on them before you clean and press them. I've had light marker ink on some of my books in the past that's real hard to see. Just wondering
I bought a black light last month and now check for restoration. I received an Iron man 2 back that had color touch. I removed the color touch and am resubmitting soon. A video is in the works
CGC has now become a joke