Let us hope so. We had never seen these kind of borders in the past. The future of our countries and all Central Asia depends on peace between our people. And Inshallah we will build a better future for our children, Tajik and Uzbek. Peace be upon you and your people brother.
Not to mention that our astonishing architects created masterpieces with such complicated mathematical/ trigonometric relations that still is a mystery to the west! the ceiling of the mosques and historic buildings are just astonishing and peerless. Even Taj Mahal is done by a Persian Architect for a Persian woman (Mumtaz Mahal) ! Even the Blue mosque in Turkey follows exactly the style of the Persian Architecture! We have good reasons to be a very proud nation my dear friend!
Shirio Jane Gol va Mehraban, how many nations you know in the world who just adore their poets and know many of their poems by hears, read fortune with it (Fal Gereftan), and even play game with is like moshaere?!! Isn't it just so unique?
Bravo, Dorood bar to! well said. I can't agree more! I feel exactly the same! It is to bad that such glory to be replaced by such disaster. It is a shame, but we need to stand tall for future generation and keep the heritage alive.
You see KabulZameen, whether we like each other or not we are still live in the same land next to each other. Tajik cities surrounded by Uzbeks, Uzbek towns surrounded by Tajiks. We will always be neighbors.
Shiraz is known as the second City in the world in culture and poetry after Scotland! It is not really fair, just because of Shakespeare! Just think how many Shakespeare we have? Countless, ha! I just saw an old Iranian movie based on the story of Leily and Majnun. Behrooze vosouqi, was playing Majnun. It wasn't bad! pretty moving!
Together our ancestors fought against Arabs. Together we defended Buhoro and Hujand against Chingiz and his hordes. Together we fought against Russians - Czarist and Communist. Together we fought against Taliban. For centuries we cried together and laughed together. Were born together and died together.
I wished all people from all ethnic backgrounds would think like you! Nationality/ race is not what bring a man respect, indeed the way we think does. Although I am an Iranian / Persian super nationalist, but I don't think loving my heritage means to hate my neighbours. I can enjoy all cultures and think diversity is beautiful! God Bless You and God Bless Tajiks, Peace!
Thank you. That's exactly what I am telling you. Turkic is a language term. Not a racial classification. Anatolian Turks speak a Turkic language but they have very little Turk blood. Unlike Yakuts in Siberia who speak Turkic and are Turk by blood. Azaris are Turkic because their language is Turkic. Not because they are of Turk blood.
Shirio77 Jan, well said, my dad is from Shiraz and my mom from a beatiful city in the north of Iran where is supposed to be a kind of Persian/Tajik tribe. Va man khodam bacheye Tehranam. Fars budan besiar ziba va ba shokuh ast. Persians & Persian Gulf forever! Ey Ahura Mazda Sarzaminam ra be to meseparam. An ra az ahriman bad sirat negahdar bash (i.e. Bush nekbati va Taleban/Arab/Ottoman Terror!
During the war, aeroplanes with no signs bombed both Azeri and Armenian cities. Some were shut down, and pilots survived. All were Russian military pilots. They gave numerous interviews to BBC and others, telling how they were hired from Russian military bases by FSB (former KGB) agents to become mercenaries. The Rus. government used them to worsen the situation and make peace impossible.
We are like these people. We all want the same: peace in our land and better future for our kids. None of it is possible if Uzbeks and Tajiks continue to hate each other. I don't hate you, so as majority of my people. So, future of our children lays in your hands. Peace or hatred. The choice is yours.
Anton Boller was first to iclude Japanese to Altaic family in 1857. As a result of decades-long work, G.J. Ramstedt's book Einführung in die altaische Sprachwissenschaft included both Japanese and Korean in Altaic family.
Concerned Kyrgyz villagers came down from mountains, to see for themselves what was going own in the city. But when they approached the city, Soviet Russian soldiers blocked their way and ordered them not to proceed because of "emergency cituation" in the city. It was done on purpose, and now Kyrgyz were convinced that something bad really happened in the city, because otherwise there would be no government troops.
In addition to that, there are cities like Katta Kurg'on in Samarqand region, with Uzbek population amounting half that of Samarqand, and Buhara has Gazli, Qarako'l and others that are also Turkic.
Turkic empire fell apart due to intrigues of Chinese spies that provoked a civil war. But many Turks stayed in former provinces of the empire. In most areas they were a minority and were quickly assimilated by local population and by now they are completely absorbed. What's left of them is language that they left which is now spoken by numerous nationalities, that originally were local native people, but were Turkified.
Caucasus populated by numerous nationalities (Daghestan alone has over a hundred ethnic groups), Siberia and Crimea with Uralic tribes related to Finns and Hungarians and Slavic tribes - ancestors of todays Russians, Ukrainians, Bulgarians etc.
Don't get me wrong I am proud of my Turkic heritage as well as my Sogdian heritage. But the fact that Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Turks, Uighurs and Tatars have a same ancestor does not make them same people.
My grandfather, who worked as a clerk in one of Soviet institutions in 1930's used to tell us that most peasants and many officials when filling up official forms would leave the section that asks about ethnicity blank. In reality, how could you divide the people of Bukhara. We had Turkic and Tajik speaking Sarts living in the same area. Tajik highlanders and Arabic herders, Kipchak and Barlas nomads, and Uzbek aristocracy, descendants of Persian Slaves and the Gypsy Luli people.
They do speak a similar language, because they have common ancestors - Ashina Turks. Their empire once stretched from Korea in the East to Black Sea in the West. It included many areas populated by non-Turkic nations, such as Central Asia with its Sogidan population.
Khotan is just one of the cities in East Turkistan, along with Kashgar, Aksu, Urumchi. True, Han population today outnumbers Uighurs. But it is a result of migration during past 50 years. Turkistan is an area in Central Asia to the north of Amu river predominantly inhabited by Turkic ethnic groups. Eastern part was occupied by the Chinese after Stalin allowed them to do that.
KGB agents provoked some fighting between Uzbek and Kyrgyz youngesters in Osh - Uzbek populated capital of Souther Kyrgyzstan. Luckily no one died, and it all calmed down. Then, "somebody" spread rumors in Kyrgyz villages that supposedly Uzbeks massacred Kyrgyz students in Osh university, and used their heads to play soccer.
Tajik populated Isfara region was given to Kirgizstan. Khojand with its huge Uzbek population was given to Tajikistan. Even though it is now populated mainly by Tajiks it's country side was predominantly Uzbek when the Soviets gave it to Tajikistan.
And considering the movement of population and foundation of numerous new cities and towns during the Soviet era it is virtually impossible to determine who of the people living in those towns had Tajik or Uzbek ancestors centuries ago. It is just the way it is.
It was all done to make sure, that if peoples of Central Asia ever decide to break away from the Soviet Empire, the Russians can easily turn us against each other. They did it in southern Kyrgizstan at the end of 1980's, right before the collapse of Soviet Union.
When Timur was young Mongol nomads invaded again. Who resisted them? Tajik Sarbadars of Samarqand. Who was the majority of Timurs troops? Timur had some Mongol blood in him, but he was the main enemy of Ghenigis Khans heritage and nomads. People who joined his army were settled Turks and Tajiks. People who sponsored him were Tajik and Turkic merchants and clergy of Samarqand and Bukhara. And with their help he liberated the land from the rule of nomadic Mongols.
The reason Jami said it, because it was widespread among Turkic soldiers of Timur to call Persians Tajik. The reason of it was the fact that only people who spoke Iranian language that they lived next to were Tajiks. So, when Timur invaded Iran, Turks called all Persian population - Tajiks. And Jami lived at Timuri court.
That is why the Kurds of Turkey (and when I say Kurds I mean Kurds who consider themselves Kurds, not Turks with Kurdish ancestors) refuse to be considered Mountain Turks. That is why Tajiks of Samarqand and Bukhara insist that they are Tajik even if their birth certificates say that they are Uzbek. Politicians can't change one's ethnic group (well, they can on paper). Ethnicity can change, but it happens over centuries.
Absolutely. I'm all for conducting fair referendum in Samarqand and Buhoro regions to determine which country they should belong to. But here is a problem. Country side of both provinces is predominantly Uzbek. And I don't mean Tajiks who were registered Uzbeks. I mean Uzbek - Uzbeks, the Turkic ones. And they outnumber the dwellers of two cities by far.
Most of todays Altaic languages have vowel harmony but Proto-Altaic as reconstructed by Starostin lacked it -- instead various vowel assimilations between the first and second syllables of words occurred in Turkic, Mongolic, Tungusic, Korean, and Japonic.
Read Publication of An Etymological Dictionary of the Altaic Languages by S. Starostin, A. Dybo, and O. Mudrak in 2003. Result of 20 years of work it contains 2800 proposed cognate sets, complete set of regular sound correspondences, number of grammatical correspondences, and a few important changes to reconstruction of Proto-Altaic.
From tiny tax isnpectors to ministers. From local chiefs of police to deans of universities. From big shots of business to pro-government Muslim clergy. They are everywhere, like leaches draining blood from my people. Samarqandi clan lead by Tajik Ismoil Jurabekov brought Karimov to power. He does what benefits them.
In areas like Samarqand and Bukhara were Sarts spoke both Persian and Uzbeks, a lot of Sarts had trouble identifying themselves. Many did not know if they should be registered as Tajiks or Uzbeks. For example, a great Bukharan writer Sadriddin Ayni became a Tajik. His fellow Bukharan writer Fitrat became Uzbek, and a Pan-Turkist. Bukharan Fayzulla Khojaev became a first leader of Soviet Uzbekistan. And poet Abdulvohid Munzim became Tajik. Even though ethnically all of them were the same.
I never said Chinese was Altaic. It is true that there are schools that claim that Japanese is not but they are in minority comparing to the rest. There is a hypothesis that it is an Austronesian language but it has little evidence. Most linguists generally reject the hypotheses of Japanese being genetically related to Austronesian/Malayo-Polynesian languages, Sino-Tibetan languages, or Dravidian languages.
That is exactly why it is not going to happen. Unification of Central Asia under the idea of Persian cultural unity will not happen until Persians learn not to view their neighbors as savage army. Your heritage is dear to you. Our Iranian heritage of our Soghdian and Khorezmian ancestors is also dear to us. So is our Turkic heritage. How can we praise our mother and defy our father? We are who we are. Peace.
Kachkan, good question about schools. I would strongly suggest you contacting Mr. Turobjon Juraev - Uzbekistans minister of education - a Samarqandi and a Tajik.
The problem is, that most people like kachkan do not know what they are talking about. Most of them are Afghan Tajiks and have never been to Uzbekistan, and are unaware of the situation in the country.
They did the same thing with Azeri and Armenians. They gave some Armenian regions to Azerbaijan, and Azeri regions to Armenia. And after the collapse of the Soviet Union when pro-Western government came to power in Azerbaijan, Russia provoked war between two countries. Azeris and Armenians started killing each other trying to "liberate" their ancestral lands from each other.
It brings to mind a story told by Mawlana Rumi: A certain man gave a dirham to four persons. One of them, who was Persian, said to them, "I want to buy Angur" The second one who was Arab said, "No I want to buy Unab not the Angur" The Turkish man said, "I want neither Angur nor Unab but I want to buy üzüm." The fourth man, who was Greek said angrily, "These all sound non-sense to me, I must buy Strafili" They all wanted the same thing.
Those nomads probably the only full blooded Turkic population here. They looked Mongol. And we also had Tajik highlanders who probably were the only fool blooded Iranian population here. They looked more Persian than Iranian-speaking Sarts of the cities. So, when the Soviets divided Central Asia they forcefully divided some of us and forced some to register as others. For example, many semi-nomadic Mongol looking tribes were registered as Uzbeks. Some Turkic speaking people as Tajiks.
I have more in common with you than with a Kazakh or Mongol, Turk or Tatar. I am your brother, and you are my brother, whether you admit it or not. There is one thing that our peoples have lost over the time: we have lost the time when our differences did not matter much.
All these was not done because Uzbeks, Tajiks or Kirgiz served Soviets. Before they created these national states, we were all Muslims, and nationality did not matter much. We remembered who we are and were proud of it, but we never draw borders. And now we are fighting over something our ancestors never thought of fighting about.
No. Altaic family includes following subdivisions: Turkic (all Turkic languages). Mongolic (Mongol, Kalmyk, Buryat and few other languages), Tungusic, Korean, Japonic.
This is the main reason why Persian replaced Sogdian and Bactrian in the region. The success of Turkic languages was based on Turkic conquests and Turco-Mongol rulers starting during with the Mongol invasion. Prior to that, Turks were constantly being Persianized (like Ghaznavids and Seljuqs).
In fact, Uzbeks that live in Samarqand along side their Tajik brothers have more right to rule the city than someone from Pamir, whose ancestors were herding sheep in mountains when our ancestors built the actual city.
And regarding the people I mentioned being impostors. The difference between me and you is that I lived there and I know what's up. Try to enter any government agency or ministry and you will see it packed with Samarqandis, most of them Tajiks. I just mentioned several top officials. I did not mention countless small and big corrupt Tajiki officials Uzbekistan is infested with.
Essentially it does not matter what nationality you are, just like what religion you are. Learn from Rumi: "na tarsâ na yahûd-am man na gabr-am na musalmân-am." Unless you learn how to respect qualities of human soul regardless of ethnicity, color of skin, or religion, you will never become a pride of your nation, but will remain its shame. Peace.
Agree. Uzbeks have a lot of Iranian blood, and when I say Iranian I mean Sogdian aborigines of Central Asia based on the fact that they spoke a language that belonged to West Iranian group of languages, and not on the fact that they are Persian or come from Iran which is not true. And since we are as much descendants of Sogdians as Tajiks are, we have the same right to claim ancient cities of Sogdiana as Tajiks do.
That's true. Uzbeks have definitly more Turkic ancestry than modern Azeris or modern Anatolian Turks (whose actualy "Turkic ancestry" is like 0-5%). However, the great majority of modern Uzbeks and also Turkmen are Iranic in origin. The number of Turkic invaders was small anyway, for they were nomads and ressources were very limitted in the steppes.
As a result todays Uzbeks, majority of whom looks Aryan except for some southern groups that still have Mongoloid features (such as Uzbeks of Afghanistan), and are descendants of Sogdians, just like Tajiks speak Turkic language. Azeri are Aryan and look Persian, yet they speak Turkic. Tatars look more like Slavs and Finns, many are blond and blue eyed.
If you doubt foreign sources I can suggest reading few works of Ruhlen or Greenberg. They are from Stanford. By the way, Mr.Greenberg is Jewish so I don't think that he is biased or is a Pan-Tukist))
I am not even talking about Mullojonov's Central Bank that has a lot to do with money laundering. I did not yet mention that Ismoil Jurabekov - head of Samarqandi Tajik clan that rules Uzbekistan is a known drug smuggler. Orders to arrest him are issued by the European Union.
Before the Soviets divided Central Asia into modern republics we did not divide ourselves based on ethnicity. We divided ourselves based on lifestyle. City population was known as Sarts. We had Sarts who spoke Persian in Bukhara and Samarqand. And we had Sarts who spoke Turkic in Tashkent, Khwarezm, Andijan, Margilan, Kokand, Namangan. Racially and culturally they were the same. The only difference was the language. And there were nomads - some Uzbeks, Kipchaks, Kazakhs, Naimans, Kigrhiz etc.
I am not trying to disturb our relationships. I am simply opposed to any Pan-Turkist, Pan-Iranist, Pan-Islamic or whatever "Pan" ideas. The best thing for Central Asia is to unite, but without intervention from outsiders such as Iran or Turkey. United not because we are Turkic or Iranic but because we share the same motherland.
"Persians" are not an ethnic group, but a confederation of smaller related ethnic groups who speek the Persian language - In Iran and Central Asia. In addition, many Persians who fled to Central Asia during the Arab invasion are among the ancestors of modern Tajiks.
Sure there is a debate that still goes on. But majority of world's linguists leans towards Altaic family. Americans are an exception. But you see, US historians and ethnographers are known for their love of sensations, trying to prove whatever is widely accepted to be wrong.
Islam Karimov's father was Ironi man named Abdulghani, and his mother was a Tajik woman named Sanobar. Both were native of Samarqand. Other Tajiks that occupy key power positions in Uzbekistan are: Buritosh Mustafoyev - Attorney General, Fayzullo Mullojonov - head of Central Bank, Polvon-Zadeh - Minister of the Interior. It is the men of Tajik Mustafoyev who send political activists to prison, and men of Tajik Polvon-Zadeh who dip them into boiling water, at the orders of Tajik Karimov.
I am not backing off from Standford professors. There are several theories in regards to Japanese language. So, no one can really claim that a particular theory is an absolute truth. That is why they are called "theories". But Altaic theory is widely accepted in Europe, Russia and by many Japanese scholars. So, you can't really accuse me of lying because I defend a very legitimate point of view.
They also divided Sarts into Uzbeks and Tajiks. Most Turkic speaking Sarts never called themselves Uzbek. Uzbeks originally were a small confederation of Turkic-Mongol tribes that conquered Central Asia. When they arrived here, they founded their own ruling dynasties. It was the Soviets who forcefully registered all of Central Asian Turkic speaking population as Uzbeks.
Next thing you know, Kyrgyz started massacring Uzbek population of surrounding villages to avenge poor Kyrgyz students "murdered" by Uzbeks. Meanwhile the "deceased" students were peacefully sleeping in their dorms. Some 10 000 Uzbeks were killed in one night, and only then the Soviet troops decided to interfere and dispersed the Kyrgyz.
If everyone there was killed, than where did Mongols rulers of China, Khubilay Khan and his descendants get their administrators? Mongols could not rule a settled, agricultural empire like China without help of specialists familiar with specifics of ruling such countries. They did not trust Chinese ministers, so they employed Central Asian Muslims, Tajik and Turkic. And they did that for over a century after Central Asia was conquered.
That'S true. However, this is exactly the point which makes the population of Bukhara and that of Azerbaijan "Iranian". Although many/most of them speak Turkic languages, they are not of Turkic (Mongoloid) race, but are Caucasian Iranics. While Iranians are a more or less homogenous population (Afghans, Iranians, Tajiks, Kurds), the Turkic peoples differ very much: Caucasoid in Anatolia and Mongoloid in Central Asia.
Sheybanid Uzbeks have little to do with our people. They came to Central Asia in 16th centurie conquering predominantly Turkic population (todays Uzbeks) and Tajiks. Most of them did not settle in cities, and their only influence was their name that was now applied to all settled Turks of Central Asia. Afghan Uzbeks mostly come from them, that is why they look Mongol. As I said they are a tiny minority.
But that's only scientific part of it. There is also another important factor - The People. If the people consider themselves a part of one ethnic group you can tell them all the facts about their far away ancestors trying to prove them that they are not who they consider themselves. It won't change a thing. People of Greece will still consider themselves Greek even though they are Slavs who adapted the language and Greeks of Anatolia will insist that they are Turkish.
There is a difference between Ottoman Turks who commited Armenian genocide and Turks in general. I agree with you that many of todays Turkic nations are predominantly Aryan by blood. I am one of them. That is why the word Turkic changed the meaning over time. It is not a racial or ethnic term today. It is a linguistic term. And majority of todays Azaris are Turkic. They speak Turkic. It is the simple truth. I am proud of being a Turk. Not Ottoman, but Turk. I have nothing to be ashamed of.
It means that you have never been to Samarqand or Buhoro. Most Uzbeks in Afghanistan come from southern Uzbekistan. Nomads who came with Chingiz Khan settled there, because it reminded them of their homeland. They were Turkified later. That is why they have Mongoloid racial features. But they are a tiny minority comparing to the rest of Uzbeks. Come to Farghona valley, heartland of Uzbek ethnicity and you will find different people, descendants of Sogdians and your brothers by blood.
And by the way, you said that advocate Pan-Turkism in all my clips. Give me and example. All videos I uploaded on You Tube are Uzbek songs. The fact that I did not place Tajik subtitles (sorry) does not mean that I am Pan-Turkist. The only video that is not a musical clip is a video about Samarqand and Bukhara that I uploaded. But the song that I included in that clip is in Tajik!!! To honor Tajik heritage of the two cities! If I was a Pan-Turkist I would've included a song in Uzbek.
People who call themselves Greek today, have very little to do with ancient Spartans or Athenians. All of Greece was conquered by Slavic tribes around 5th century A.D. They outnumbered the locals, and assimilated them. In 1800's when Greece declared independence from Ottoman empire people of Greece spoke Slavic language. The New Greek language was taught and pushed on them by the government and intelligentsia. And today we have a Greek ethnicity, Greek by name and language, but Slavic by blood.
Now one is talking about Mongolian language in Japan. I am talking about racial features. Racially Japaneses are Mongoloid. As far as the language is concerned it is Altaic. Here are some sources: Miller, R.A.: Languages and history. Japanese, Korean and Altaic, Inst. for Comparative Research in Human C, 1996. Ruhlen, M.: A Guide to the World's Languages, Stanford University Press (1987).
Ottomans claim that because we all speak Turkic languages we are all one nation and should be united (under their leadership of course). The problem with that is that Ottoman Turks have little in common with Aryan Uzbeks or Mongoloid Kazakh and Kyrgyz or Uralic Tatars.
What the subjects (commons) think does matter. Intellectuals can claim whatever they want to claim. Intellectual can bring all researches to an Uzbek peasant from Samarqand suburb trying to convince him that he is really Tajik. But the peasant will stay Uzbek, and will not start learning Farsi to restore his heritage.
I did not say Uzbekistan is suffering because of Tajiks. I am saying that it is suffering because of the government that is almost entirely made of Tajiks. So it is wrong to blame Uzbeks for oppressing or limiting the rights of Tajiks (as some people on this website claim) because the rulers of the country are Tajiks.
to me Tajik, Persian, Iranian, Aryan and Khorasan mean the same thing even if we are apart. We have the same language, same culture and same heritage. Our heart beats for the same values! Please don't try to wage a diversion between us! We are peaceful and do not want to lay threat to anyone!
By the way, the reason I only calculated the population of Samarqand and Bukhara as being Tajik is because no other cities of Uzbekistan speak Tajik. You can't find a single Tajik village even in the countryside around Samarqand. I understand that you may find it insulting that Tajiks don't constitute the majority of population of Tashkent, Andijon, Margilon, Namangan, Shahrisabz, Khiva, Urganch and other cities. But guess what, Beijing and Tokyo are not predominantly Tajik either. So don't cry.
You said that some professors were forced to speak Uzbek. You cannot force someone to speak a certain language. Samarqand and Buhoro speak Tajik, and no one is trying to change it. Karimov speaks Tajik. When he came to power, still under Russian rule, he had to study with a personal teacher to learn proper Uzbek.
The truth is: Uzbekistani president Islom Karimov is a Tajik from Samarqand. The man who put him to power is Ismoil Jurabekov - a Tajik. Shawkat Mirziyaev, prime-minister - Tajik. Mullojonov, head of Central Bank - Tajik. Polvon-Zoda, minister of Justice - Tajik. All important government posts in Uzbeksitan are occupied by Samarqandi Tajiks. They same people shot dead 500 women, children, and elderly protesters in Andijan in 2005. They ran Central Asia's richest country to poverty.
Nomadic societies do not develop technologies because there is no need for them and not because they are stupid or brutal. The only tool a shepherd needs is a whip which does not need improvement. I could go on and on but it is not the main subject of our discussion.
You are saying that the sources I mention are Turk historians)) Could you please be so kind to point out which of the is Turkish. Is it professor Sergei Starostin from St.Petersburg, Russia? Oh, it must be Miller. Or is it Kortlandt (now that's a typical Turkish last name):) Oh, I know. It's Doerfer, G.: Grundwort und Sprachmischung: Eine Untersuchung an Hand von Körperteilbezeichnungen (Münchener Ostasiatische Studien 47), Franz-Steiner-Verlag, 1988. Sounds very much Turkish))))
Kabulzameen, I am well awar of PERSIAN dynasites to the south of Jayhun. PERSIAN and TAJIK is not the same thing, just like TURK and UZBEK. But as you said Tajiks are sophisticated people. I have always considered Tajiks to be very well mannered and polite people who do not use personal insults just based on the fact that opponent has a different opinion. But, once again, I guess they raise you differently to the south of Jayhun.
To make it short: Russians made all divisions in Central Asia and Caucasus, so that they could use us against each other when They need it. It worked better in Caucasus, because people there are hotheaded, and have short temper. Tajiks and Uzbeks are essentially peaceful people. Our mentality is not warlike, unlike Pashtuns, or Chechens in Caucasus. So let us be wise enough and not do what our common enemies whant us to do.
I look at a Tajik from Bukhara and a Persian from Shiraz and I see two different cultures, different religion, different food, different racial features. Same language is not everything. Hazora people in Afghanistan speak Persian but are full blooded Mongols. Anatolian Turks speak Turkic but are mostly Aryan. Terminology is there for a reason buddy.
Well I guess that is the difference between Persian / Tajiks with Ottomans. Ottomans are killing machines while Persians are art/culture lovers. Creators of magnificent architecture, poetry and founder/cradle of all sciences. We create and Ottomans kill!
All south of Kirgizstan, with the main city of Osh is Uzbek, and has nothing to do with nomadic Kirgiz who never built cities. As well as cities of Taraz, Turkestan, and Chimkent, cities founded and populated by Uzbeks are now in Kazakhstan, and nomads claim that Uzbek poets of the past who lived there were Kazakh, even though their poetry was in Uzbek, and Kazakhs are nomads with no cities.
Mongloid in parts of Central Asia. Kazakh and Kirgiz are Mongoloid. But if you come to Toshkent or Andijon you will find that Uzbeks look more like Tajiks or Persians than their Turkic neighbours. Uzbeks are descendants of both ancient local population - Sogdians who spoke a language from Iranian group (not Persian) and Turkic migrants.
I do get what you are saying. I am not blaming Tajiks. I am just saying that Uzbeks are not to blame for shutting down Tajik schools and newpapers in Uzbekistan. Our government is Tajik. I do not know why they treat their own people like that. Personally I love Tajik people. Peace.
I can believe that Egyptians consider themselves Arabs. That's the way history goes. The French do not consider themselves to be Celtic Gauls, though Gauls are their ancestors. Why? Because Gauls mixed with Germanic Franks who arrived later. Now they are a new ethnicity and have a new identity, and language. Mixture of people (ethnic groups) is just like mixture of wines, or gases. The end result of mixture is not the same as initial ingredients.
There is a Turkic runic alphabet. Proves of it can be found all over the Great Steppe. Sure they did not build palaces or temples but you see, there is no need of building for nomads. They move with herds, so it is not practical. It does not mean that they are dumber than Persians or Greeks. Nomadic cattle-raising is a form of adaptation to environment. It was more practical to herd than to cultivate in Mongolia.
So, speaking of Egyptians. Descendants of ancient Egyptians mixed with Arabs who arrived later. The result is a new ethnic group. They call themselves Arabs, but they are not the same as ancient Egyptians, and not the same as Bedouins and city dwellers of Arabian peninsula. They are who they are. Anatolian Turks are mostly of Greek origin. They were Turkified, and today consider themselves Turks. Chances of them turning into Greeks are next to nill.
Miller, R.A.: Languages and history. Japanese, Korean and Altaic, Inst. for Comparative Research in Human C, 1996 Kortlandt, F.: "The origin of the Japanese and Korean accent systems", Acta Linguistica Hafniensia 26 (1993): 57--65.Doerfer, G.: Grundwort und Sprachmischung: Eine Untersuchung an Hand von Körperteilbezeichnungen (Münchener Ostasiatische Studien 47), Franz-Steiner-Verlag, 1988.
The language does not distinguish one's ethnicity or racial background. For example, when we say Turkic or Iranian ethnic groups today we only mean a linguistic generalization. Turkic includes Anatolian Turks (who are mostly of Greek and Kurdish origin) and Azeris who have more Iranian blood than Turkic and Mongoloid Yakuts of Siberia. So does Iranian group include Persians who are Aryan and Hazaras who are Mongol. That is why both Pan-Turkic and Pan-Iranian ideas are wrong.
Let us hope so. We had never seen these kind of borders in the past. The future of our countries and all Central Asia depends on peace between our people. And Inshallah we will build a better future for our children, Tajik and Uzbek. Peace be upon you and your people brother.
Tadjiks Form Afghanistan ❤️❤️❤️Tajiki People
be baradare azizam dar hame ja , Afghanestan , tajikestan va ... salam mikonam , ishala ke dardo ranje hame tamum she va dobare baham motahed shim .
Not to mention that our astonishing architects created masterpieces with such complicated mathematical/ trigonometric relations that still is a mystery to the west! the ceiling of the mosques and historic buildings are just astonishing and peerless. Even Taj Mahal is done by a Persian Architect for a Persian woman (Mumtaz Mahal) ! Even the Blue mosque in Turkey follows exactly the style of the Persian Architecture! We have good reasons to be a very proud nation my dear friend!
Shirio Jane Gol va Mehraban, how many nations you know in the world who just adore their poets and know many of their poems by hears, read fortune with it (Fal Gereftan), and even play game with is like moshaere?!! Isn't it just so unique?
Bravo, Dorood bar to! well said. I can't agree more! I feel exactly the same! It is to bad that such glory to be replaced by such disaster. It is a shame, but we need to stand tall for future generation and keep the heritage alive.
Aria Aryana Khorasan Afghanistan ❤️❤️❤️
afarin fahim jan wa tashakor az video.
Shirio Jan, You are so sweet! Be Farsi: to khieli naz hasti!
You see KabulZameen, whether we like each other or not we are still live in the same land next to each other. Tajik cities surrounded by Uzbeks, Uzbek towns surrounded by Tajiks. We will always be neighbors.
Shiraz is known as the second City in the world in culture and poetry after Scotland! It is not really fair, just because of Shakespeare! Just think how many Shakespeare we have? Countless, ha! I just saw an old Iranian movie based on the story of Leily and Majnun. Behrooze vosouqi, was playing Majnun. It wasn't bad! pretty moving!
Together our ancestors fought against Arabs. Together we defended Buhoro and Hujand against Chingiz and his hordes. Together we fought against Russians - Czarist and Communist. Together we fought against Taliban. For centuries we cried together and laughed together. Were born together and died together.
BE OMIDE DO BARE YEKI SHODANE PARSIYAN IRANE BOZORG
I wished all people from all ethnic backgrounds would think like you! Nationality/ race is not what bring a man respect, indeed the way we think does. Although I am an Iranian / Persian super nationalist, but I don't think loving my heritage means to hate my neighbours. I can enjoy all cultures and think diversity is beautiful!
God Bless You and God Bless Tajiks, Peace!
Thank you. That's exactly what I am telling you. Turkic is a language term. Not a racial classification. Anatolian Turks speak a Turkic language but they have very little Turk blood. Unlike Yakuts in Siberia who speak Turkic and are Turk by blood. Azaris are Turkic because their language is Turkic. Not because they are of Turk blood.
Shirio77 Jan, well said, my dad is from Shiraz and my mom from a beatiful city in the north of Iran where is supposed to be a kind of Persian/Tajik tribe. Va man khodam bacheye Tehranam. Fars budan besiar ziba va ba shokuh ast. Persians & Persian Gulf forever! Ey Ahura Mazda Sarzaminam ra be to meseparam. An ra az ahriman bad sirat negahdar bash (i.e. Bush nekbati va Taleban/Arab/Ottoman Terror!
During the war, aeroplanes with no signs bombed both Azeri and Armenian cities. Some were shut down, and pilots survived. All were Russian military pilots. They gave numerous interviews to BBC and others, telling how they were hired from Russian military bases by FSB (former KGB) agents to become mercenaries. The Rus. government used them to worsen the situation and make peace impossible.
We are like these people. We all want the same: peace in our land and better future for our kids. None of it is possible if Uzbeks and Tajiks continue to hate each other. I don't hate you, so as majority of my people. So, future of our children lays in your hands. Peace or hatred. The choice is yours.
Anton Boller was first to iclude Japanese to Altaic family in 1857. As a result of decades-long work, G.J. Ramstedt's book Einführung in die altaische Sprachwissenschaft included both Japanese and Korean in Altaic family.
Concerned Kyrgyz villagers came down from mountains, to see for themselves what was going own in the city. But when they approached the city, Soviet Russian soldiers blocked their way and ordered them not to proceed because of "emergency cituation" in the city. It was done on purpose, and now Kyrgyz were convinced that something bad really happened in the city, because otherwise there would be no government troops.
In addition to that, there are cities like Katta Kurg'on in Samarqand region, with Uzbek population amounting half that of Samarqand, and Buhara has Gazli, Qarako'l and others that are also Turkic.
Turkic empire fell apart due to intrigues of Chinese spies that provoked a civil war. But many Turks stayed in former provinces of the empire. In most areas they were a minority and were quickly assimilated by local population and by now they are completely absorbed. What's left of them is language that they left which is now spoken by numerous nationalities, that originally were local native people, but were Turkified.
Caucasus populated by numerous nationalities (Daghestan alone has over a hundred ethnic groups), Siberia and Crimea with Uralic tribes related to Finns and Hungarians and Slavic tribes - ancestors of todays Russians, Ukrainians, Bulgarians etc.
Don't get me wrong I am proud of my Turkic heritage as well as my Sogdian heritage. But the fact that Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Turks, Uighurs and Tatars have a same ancestor does not make them same people.
My grandfather, who worked as a clerk in one of Soviet institutions in 1930's used to tell us that most peasants and many officials when filling up official forms would leave the section that asks about ethnicity blank. In reality, how could you divide the people of Bukhara. We had Turkic and Tajik speaking Sarts living in the same area. Tajik highlanders and Arabic herders, Kipchak and Barlas nomads, and Uzbek aristocracy, descendants of Persian Slaves and the Gypsy Luli people.
Well said, Az yek ham mahane Irani! Iran, Tajik, Khorasan are the same!
They do speak a similar language, because they have common ancestors - Ashina Turks. Their empire once stretched from Korea in the East to Black Sea in the West. It included many areas populated by non-Turkic nations, such as Central Asia with its Sogidan population.
Khotan is just one of the cities in East Turkistan, along with Kashgar, Aksu, Urumchi. True, Han population today outnumbers Uighurs. But it is a result of migration during past 50 years. Turkistan is an area in Central Asia to the north of Amu river predominantly inhabited by Turkic ethnic groups. Eastern part was occupied by the Chinese after Stalin allowed them to do that.
KGB agents provoked some fighting between Uzbek and Kyrgyz youngesters in Osh - Uzbek populated capital of Souther Kyrgyzstan. Luckily no one died, and it all calmed down. Then, "somebody" spread rumors in Kyrgyz villages that supposedly Uzbeks massacred Kyrgyz students in Osh university, and used their heads to play soccer.
Tajik populated Isfara region was given to Kirgizstan. Khojand with its huge Uzbek population was given to Tajikistan. Even though it is now populated mainly by Tajiks it's country side was predominantly Uzbek when the Soviets gave it to Tajikistan.
And considering the movement of population and foundation of numerous new cities and towns during the Soviet era it is virtually impossible to determine who of the people living in those towns had Tajik or Uzbek ancestors centuries ago. It is just the way it is.
It was all done to make sure, that if peoples of Central Asia ever decide to break away from the Soviet Empire, the Russians can easily turn us against each other. They did it in southern Kyrgizstan at the end of 1980's, right before the collapse of Soviet Union.
When Timur was young Mongol nomads invaded again. Who resisted them? Tajik Sarbadars of Samarqand. Who was the majority of Timurs troops? Timur had some Mongol blood in him, but he was the main enemy of Ghenigis Khans heritage and nomads. People who joined his army were settled Turks and Tajiks. People who sponsored him were Tajik and Turkic merchants and clergy of Samarqand and Bukhara. And with their help he liberated the land from the rule of nomadic Mongols.
The reason Jami said it, because it was widespread among Turkic soldiers of Timur to call Persians Tajik. The reason of it was the fact that only people who spoke Iranian language that they lived next to were Tajiks. So, when Timur invaded Iran, Turks called all Persian population - Tajiks. And Jami lived at Timuri court.
That is why the Kurds of Turkey (and when I say Kurds I mean Kurds who consider themselves Kurds, not Turks with Kurdish ancestors) refuse to be considered Mountain Turks. That is why Tajiks of Samarqand and Bukhara insist that they are Tajik even if their birth certificates say that they are Uzbek. Politicians can't change one's ethnic group (well, they can on paper). Ethnicity can change, but it happens over centuries.
Absolutely. I'm all for conducting fair referendum in Samarqand and Buhoro regions to determine which country they should belong to. But here is a problem. Country side of both provinces is predominantly Uzbek. And I don't mean Tajiks who were registered Uzbeks. I mean Uzbek - Uzbeks, the Turkic ones. And they outnumber the dwellers of two cities by far.
Most of todays Altaic languages have vowel harmony but Proto-Altaic as reconstructed by Starostin lacked it -- instead various vowel assimilations between the first and second syllables of words occurred in Turkic, Mongolic, Tungusic, Korean, and Japonic.
Read Publication of An Etymological Dictionary of the Altaic Languages by S. Starostin, A. Dybo, and O. Mudrak in 2003. Result of 20 years of work it contains 2800 proposed cognate sets, complete set of regular sound correspondences, number of grammatical correspondences, and a few important changes to reconstruction of Proto-Altaic.
From tiny tax isnpectors to ministers. From local chiefs of police to deans of universities. From big shots of business to pro-government Muslim clergy. They are everywhere, like leaches draining blood from my people. Samarqandi clan lead by Tajik Ismoil Jurabekov brought Karimov to power. He does what benefits them.
In areas like Samarqand and Bukhara were Sarts spoke both Persian and Uzbeks, a lot of Sarts had trouble identifying themselves. Many did not know if they should be registered as Tajiks or Uzbeks. For example, a great Bukharan writer Sadriddin Ayni became a Tajik. His fellow Bukharan writer Fitrat became Uzbek, and a Pan-Turkist. Bukharan Fayzulla Khojaev became a first leader of Soviet Uzbekistan. And poet Abdulvohid Munzim became Tajik. Even though ethnically all of them were the same.
I never said Chinese was Altaic. It is true that there are schools that claim that Japanese is not but they are in minority comparing to the rest. There is a hypothesis that it is an Austronesian language but it has little evidence. Most linguists generally reject the hypotheses of Japanese being genetically related to Austronesian/Malayo-Polynesian languages, Sino-Tibetan languages, or Dravidian languages.
That is exactly why it is not going to happen. Unification of Central Asia under the idea of Persian cultural unity will not happen until Persians learn not to view their neighbors as savage army. Your heritage is dear to you. Our Iranian heritage of our Soghdian and Khorezmian ancestors is also dear to us. So is our Turkic heritage. How can we praise our mother and defy our father? We are who we are. Peace.
Kachkan, good question about schools. I would strongly suggest you contacting Mr. Turobjon Juraev - Uzbekistans minister of education - a Samarqandi and a Tajik.
The problem is, that most people like kachkan do not know what they are talking about. Most of them are Afghan Tajiks and have never been to Uzbekistan, and are unaware of the situation in the country.
They did the same thing with Azeri and Armenians. They gave some Armenian regions to Azerbaijan, and Azeri regions to Armenia. And after the collapse of the Soviet Union when pro-Western government came to power in Azerbaijan, Russia provoked war between two countries. Azeris and Armenians started killing each other trying to "liberate" their ancestral lands from each other.
It brings to mind a story told by Mawlana Rumi: A certain man gave a dirham to four persons. One of them, who was Persian, said to them, "I want to buy Angur" The second one who was Arab said, "No I want to buy Unab not the Angur" The Turkish man said, "I want neither Angur nor Unab but I want to buy üzüm." The fourth man, who was Greek said angrily, "These all sound non-sense to me, I must buy Strafili" They all wanted the same thing.
My comments have nothing to do with this song. The song is beautiful. My comments started as a response to some other comments.
Those nomads probably the only full blooded Turkic population here. They looked Mongol. And we also had Tajik highlanders who probably were the only fool blooded Iranian population here. They looked more Persian than Iranian-speaking Sarts of the cities. So, when the Soviets divided Central Asia they forcefully divided some of us and forced some to register as others. For example, many semi-nomadic Mongol looking tribes were registered as Uzbeks. Some Turkic speaking people as Tajiks.
I have more in common with you than with a Kazakh or Mongol, Turk or Tatar. I am your brother, and you are my brother, whether you admit it or not. There is one thing that our peoples have lost over the time: we have lost the time when our differences did not matter much.
All these was not done because Uzbeks, Tajiks or Kirgiz served Soviets. Before they created these national states, we were all Muslims, and nationality did not matter much. We remembered who we are and were proud of it, but we never draw borders. And now we are fighting over something our ancestors never thought of fighting about.
No. Altaic family includes following subdivisions: Turkic (all Turkic languages). Mongolic (Mongol, Kalmyk, Buryat and few other languages), Tungusic, Korean, Japonic.
This is the main reason why Persian replaced Sogdian and Bactrian in the region. The success of Turkic languages was based on Turkic conquests and Turco-Mongol rulers starting during with the Mongol invasion. Prior to that, Turks were constantly being Persianized (like Ghaznavids and Seljuqs).
In fact, Uzbeks that live in Samarqand along side their Tajik brothers have more right to rule the city than someone from Pamir, whose ancestors were herding sheep in mountains when our ancestors built the actual city.
And regarding the people I mentioned being impostors. The difference between me and you is that I lived there and I know what's up. Try to enter any government agency or ministry and you will see it packed with Samarqandis, most of them Tajiks. I just mentioned several top officials. I did not mention countless small and big corrupt Tajiki officials Uzbekistan is infested with.
Essentially it does not matter what nationality you are, just like what religion you are. Learn from Rumi: "na tarsâ na yahûd-am man na gabr-am na musalmân-am." Unless you learn how to respect qualities of human soul regardless of ethnicity, color of skin, or religion, you will never become a pride of your nation, but will remain its shame. Peace.
Agree. Uzbeks have a lot of Iranian blood, and when I say Iranian I mean Sogdian aborigines of Central Asia based on the fact that they spoke a language that belonged to West Iranian group of languages, and not on the fact that they are Persian or come from Iran which is not true. And since we are as much descendants of Sogdians as Tajiks are, we have the same right to claim ancient cities of Sogdiana as Tajiks do.
That's true. Uzbeks have definitly more Turkic ancestry than modern Azeris or modern Anatolian Turks (whose actualy "Turkic ancestry" is like 0-5%). However, the great majority of modern Uzbeks and also Turkmen are Iranic in origin. The number of Turkic invaders was small anyway, for they were nomads and ressources were very limitted in the steppes.
@Bactrian5000
دست، روی و خرد تو مرد بومی این آب و خاک را با این واژه های پر از مهر، که از دل یک پارسی پاک نژاد بیرون میاید، میبوسم
پاینده پارسی
As a result todays Uzbeks, majority of whom looks Aryan except for some southern groups that still have Mongoloid features (such as Uzbeks of Afghanistan), and are descendants of Sogdians, just like Tajiks speak Turkic language. Azeri are Aryan and look Persian, yet they speak Turkic. Tatars look more like Slavs and Finns, many are blond and blue eyed.
If you doubt foreign sources I can suggest reading few works of Ruhlen or Greenberg. They are from Stanford. By the way, Mr.Greenberg is Jewish so I don't think that he is biased or is a Pan-Tukist))
I am not even talking about Mullojonov's Central Bank that has a lot to do with money laundering. I did not yet mention that Ismoil Jurabekov - head of Samarqandi Tajik clan that rules Uzbekistan is a known drug smuggler. Orders to arrest him are issued by the European Union.
Before the Soviets divided Central Asia into modern republics we did not divide ourselves based on ethnicity. We divided ourselves based on lifestyle. City population was known as Sarts. We had Sarts who spoke Persian in Bukhara and Samarqand. And we had Sarts who spoke Turkic in Tashkent, Khwarezm, Andijan, Margilan, Kokand, Namangan. Racially and culturally they were the same. The only difference was the language. And there were nomads - some Uzbeks, Kipchaks, Kazakhs, Naimans, Kigrhiz etc.
I am not trying to disturb our relationships. I am simply opposed to any Pan-Turkist, Pan-Iranist, Pan-Islamic or whatever "Pan" ideas. The best thing for Central Asia is to unite, but without intervention from outsiders such as Iran or Turkey. United not because we are Turkic or Iranic but because we share the same motherland.
"Persians" are not an ethnic group, but a confederation of smaller related ethnic groups who speek the Persian language - In Iran and Central Asia. In addition, many Persians who fled to Central Asia during the Arab invasion are among the ancestors of modern Tajiks.
Sure there is a debate that still goes on. But majority of world's linguists leans towards Altaic family. Americans are an exception. But you see, US historians and ethnographers are known for their love of sensations, trying to prove whatever is widely accepted to be wrong.
Islam Karimov's father was Ironi man named Abdulghani, and his mother was a Tajik woman named Sanobar. Both were native of Samarqand. Other Tajiks that occupy key power positions in Uzbekistan are: Buritosh Mustafoyev - Attorney General, Fayzullo Mullojonov - head of Central Bank, Polvon-Zadeh - Minister of the Interior. It is the men of Tajik Mustafoyev who send political activists to prison, and men of Tajik Polvon-Zadeh who dip them into boiling water, at the orders of Tajik Karimov.
I am not backing off from Standford professors. There are several theories in regards to Japanese language. So, no one can really claim that a particular theory is an absolute truth. That is why they are called "theories". But Altaic theory is widely accepted in Europe, Russia and by many Japanese scholars. So, you can't really accuse me of lying because I defend a very legitimate point of view.
They also divided Sarts into Uzbeks and Tajiks. Most Turkic speaking Sarts never called themselves Uzbek. Uzbeks originally were a small confederation of Turkic-Mongol tribes that conquered Central Asia. When they arrived here, they founded their own ruling dynasties. It was the Soviets who forcefully registered all of Central Asian Turkic speaking population as Uzbeks.
Next thing you know, Kyrgyz started massacring Uzbek population of surrounding villages to avenge poor Kyrgyz students "murdered" by Uzbeks. Meanwhile the "deceased" students were peacefully sleeping in their dorms. Some 10 000 Uzbeks were killed in one night, and only then the Soviet troops decided to interfere and dispersed the Kyrgyz.
If everyone there was killed, than where did Mongols rulers of China, Khubilay Khan and his descendants get their administrators? Mongols could not rule a settled, agricultural empire like China without help of specialists familiar with specifics of ruling such countries. They did not trust Chinese ministers, so they employed Central Asian Muslims, Tajik and Turkic. And they did that for over a century after Central Asia was conquered.
That'S true. However, this is exactly the point which makes the population of Bukhara and that of Azerbaijan "Iranian". Although many/most of them speak Turkic languages, they are not of Turkic (Mongoloid) race, but are Caucasian Iranics. While Iranians are a more or less homogenous population (Afghans, Iranians, Tajiks, Kurds), the Turkic peoples differ very much: Caucasoid in Anatolia and Mongoloid in Central Asia.
Sheybanid Uzbeks have little to do with our people. They came to Central Asia in 16th centurie conquering predominantly Turkic population (todays Uzbeks) and Tajiks. Most of them did not settle in cities, and their only influence was their name that was now applied to all settled Turks of Central Asia. Afghan Uzbeks mostly come from them, that is why they look Mongol. As I said they are a tiny minority.
But that's only scientific part of it. There is also another important factor - The People. If the people consider themselves a part of one ethnic group you can tell them all the facts about their far away ancestors trying to prove them that they are not who they consider themselves. It won't change a thing. People of Greece will still consider themselves Greek even though they are Slavs who adapted the language and Greeks of Anatolia will insist that they are Turkish.
There is a difference between Ottoman Turks who commited Armenian genocide and Turks in general. I agree with you that many of todays Turkic nations are predominantly Aryan by blood. I am one of them. That is why the word Turkic changed the meaning over time. It is not a racial or ethnic term today. It is a linguistic term. And majority of todays Azaris are Turkic. They speak Turkic. It is the simple truth. I am proud of being a Turk. Not Ottoman, but Turk. I have nothing to be ashamed of.
It means that you have never been to Samarqand or Buhoro. Most Uzbeks in Afghanistan come from southern Uzbekistan. Nomads who came with Chingiz Khan settled there, because it reminded them of their homeland. They were Turkified later. That is why they have Mongoloid racial features. But they are a tiny minority comparing to the rest of Uzbeks. Come to Farghona valley, heartland of Uzbek ethnicity and you will find different people, descendants of Sogdians and your brothers by blood.
And by the way, you said that advocate Pan-Turkism in all my clips. Give me and example. All videos I uploaded on You Tube are Uzbek songs. The fact that I did not place Tajik subtitles (sorry) does not mean that I am Pan-Turkist. The only video that is not a musical clip is a video about Samarqand and Bukhara that I uploaded. But the song that I included in that clip is in Tajik!!! To honor Tajik heritage of the two cities! If I was a Pan-Turkist I would've included a song in Uzbek.
People who call themselves Greek today, have very little to do with ancient Spartans or Athenians. All of Greece was conquered by Slavic tribes around 5th century A.D. They outnumbered the locals, and assimilated them. In 1800's when Greece declared independence from Ottoman empire people of Greece spoke Slavic language. The New Greek language was taught and pushed on them by the government and intelligentsia. And today we have a Greek ethnicity, Greek by name and language, but Slavic by blood.
Now one is talking about Mongolian language in Japan. I am talking about racial features. Racially Japaneses are Mongoloid. As far as the language is concerned it is Altaic. Here are some sources: Miller, R.A.: Languages and history. Japanese, Korean and Altaic, Inst. for Comparative Research in Human C, 1996. Ruhlen, M.: A Guide to the World's Languages, Stanford University Press (1987).
Ottomans claim that because we all speak Turkic languages we are all one nation and should be united (under their leadership of course). The problem with that is that Ottoman Turks have little in common with Aryan Uzbeks or Mongoloid Kazakh and Kyrgyz or Uralic Tatars.
What the subjects (commons) think does matter. Intellectuals can claim whatever they want to claim. Intellectual can bring all researches to an Uzbek peasant from Samarqand suburb trying to convince him that he is really Tajik. But the peasant will stay Uzbek, and will not start learning Farsi to restore his heritage.
I did not say Uzbekistan is suffering because of Tajiks. I am saying that it is suffering because of the government that is almost entirely made of Tajiks. So it is wrong to blame Uzbeks for oppressing or limiting the rights of Tajiks (as some people on this website claim) because the rulers of the country are Tajiks.
1 805 000 = 7.5% of population. The rest are:
Russian 5.5% = 1 320 000, Kazakh 3% = 720 000, Karakalpak 2.5% = 600 000, Tatar 1.5%= 360 000, Korean 4.7% = 1 128 000, others 2.5% = 600 000. Total 6 533 000. 24 000 000 - 6 533 000 = 17 467 000 of Uzbeki population = 72.7%.
to me Tajik, Persian, Iranian, Aryan and Khorasan mean the same thing even if we are apart. We have the same language, same culture and same heritage. Our heart beats for the same values! Please don't try to wage a diversion between us! We are peaceful and do not want to lay threat to anyone!
By the way, the reason I only calculated the population of Samarqand and Bukhara as being Tajik is because no other cities of Uzbekistan speak Tajik. You can't find a single Tajik village even in the countryside around Samarqand. I understand that you may find it insulting that Tajiks don't constitute the majority of population of Tashkent, Andijon, Margilon, Namangan, Shahrisabz, Khiva, Urganch and other cities. But guess what, Beijing and Tokyo are not predominantly Tajik either. So don't cry.
You said that some professors were forced to speak Uzbek. You cannot force someone to speak a certain language. Samarqand and Buhoro speak Tajik, and no one is trying to change it. Karimov speaks Tajik. When he came to power, still under Russian rule, he had to study with a personal teacher to learn proper Uzbek.
The truth is: Uzbekistani president Islom Karimov is a Tajik from Samarqand. The man who put him to power is Ismoil Jurabekov - a Tajik. Shawkat Mirziyaev, prime-minister - Tajik. Mullojonov, head of Central Bank - Tajik. Polvon-Zoda, minister of Justice - Tajik. All important government posts in Uzbeksitan are occupied by Samarqandi Tajiks. They same people shot dead 500 women, children, and elderly protesters in Andijan in 2005. They ran Central Asia's richest country to poverty.
Nomadic societies do not develop technologies because there is no need for them and not because they are stupid or brutal. The only tool a shepherd needs is a whip which does not need improvement. I could go on and on but it is not the main subject of our discussion.
You are saying that the sources I mention are Turk historians)) Could you please be so kind to point out which of the is Turkish. Is it professor Sergei Starostin from St.Petersburg, Russia? Oh, it must be Miller. Or is it Kortlandt (now that's a typical Turkish last name):) Oh, I know. It's Doerfer, G.: Grundwort und Sprachmischung: Eine Untersuchung an Hand von Körperteilbezeichnungen (Münchener Ostasiatische Studien 47), Franz-Steiner-Verlag, 1988. Sounds very much Turkish))))
Kabulzameen, I am well awar of PERSIAN dynasites to the south of Jayhun. PERSIAN and TAJIK is not the same thing, just like TURK and UZBEK. But as you said Tajiks are sophisticated people. I have always considered Tajiks to be very well mannered and polite people who do not use personal insults just based on the fact that opponent has a different opinion. But, once again, I guess they raise you differently to the south of Jayhun.
To make it short: Russians made all divisions in Central Asia and Caucasus, so that they could use us against each other when They need it. It worked better in Caucasus, because people there are hotheaded, and have short temper. Tajiks and Uzbeks are essentially peaceful people. Our mentality is not warlike, unlike Pashtuns, or Chechens in Caucasus. So let us be wise enough and not do what our common enemies whant us to do.
I look at a Tajik from Bukhara and a Persian from Shiraz and I see two different cultures, different religion, different food, different racial features. Same language is not everything. Hazora people in Afghanistan speak Persian but are full blooded Mongols. Anatolian Turks speak Turkic but are mostly Aryan. Terminology is there for a reason buddy.
Well I guess that is the difference between Persian / Tajiks with Ottomans. Ottomans are killing machines while Persians are art/culture lovers. Creators of magnificent architecture, poetry and founder/cradle of all sciences. We create and Ottomans kill!
All south of Kirgizstan, with the main city of Osh is Uzbek, and has nothing to do with nomadic Kirgiz who never built cities. As well as cities of Taraz, Turkestan, and Chimkent, cities founded and populated by Uzbeks are now in Kazakhstan, and nomads claim that Uzbek poets of the past who lived there were Kazakh, even though their poetry was in Uzbek, and Kazakhs are nomads with no cities.
Mongloid in parts of Central Asia. Kazakh and Kirgiz are Mongoloid. But if you come to Toshkent or Andijon you will find that Uzbeks look more like Tajiks or Persians than their Turkic neighbours. Uzbeks are descendants of both ancient local population - Sogdians who spoke a language from Iranian group (not Persian) and Turkic migrants.
I do get what you are saying. I am not blaming Tajiks. I am just saying that Uzbeks are not to blame for shutting down Tajik schools and newpapers in Uzbekistan. Our government is Tajik. I do not know why they treat their own people like that. Personally I love Tajik people. Peace.
I can believe that Egyptians consider themselves Arabs. That's the way history goes. The French do not consider themselves to be Celtic Gauls, though Gauls are their ancestors. Why? Because Gauls mixed with Germanic Franks who arrived later. Now they are a new ethnicity and have a new identity, and language. Mixture of people (ethnic groups) is just like mixture of wines, or gases. The end result of mixture is not the same as initial ingredients.
There is a Turkic runic alphabet. Proves of it can be found all over the Great Steppe. Sure they did not build palaces or temples but you see, there is no need of building for nomads. They move with herds, so it is not practical. It does not mean that they are dumber than Persians or Greeks. Nomadic cattle-raising is a form of adaptation to environment. It was more practical to herd than to cultivate in Mongolia.
So, speaking of Egyptians. Descendants of ancient Egyptians mixed with Arabs who arrived later. The result is a new ethnic group. They call themselves Arabs, but they are not the same as ancient Egyptians, and not the same as Bedouins and city dwellers of Arabian peninsula. They are who they are. Anatolian Turks are mostly of Greek origin. They were Turkified, and today consider themselves Turks. Chances of them turning into Greeks are next to nill.
Miller, R.A.: Languages and history. Japanese, Korean and Altaic, Inst. for Comparative Research in Human C, 1996
Kortlandt, F.: "The origin of the Japanese and Korean accent systems", Acta Linguistica Hafniensia 26 (1993): 57--65.Doerfer, G.: Grundwort und Sprachmischung: Eine Untersuchung an Hand von Körperteilbezeichnungen (Münchener Ostasiatische Studien 47), Franz-Steiner-Verlag, 1988.
The language does not distinguish one's ethnicity or racial background. For example, when we say Turkic or Iranian ethnic groups today we only mean a linguistic generalization. Turkic includes Anatolian Turks (who are mostly of Greek and Kurdish origin) and Azeris who have more Iranian blood than Turkic and Mongoloid Yakuts of Siberia. So does Iranian group include Persians who are Aryan and Hazaras who are Mongol. That is why both Pan-Turkic and Pan-Iranian ideas are wrong.