Italy always had some of the world's greatest engineers. We Greeks always trusted Italian products. From simple hand tools to cars, they always produced top quality products. My dad had a Fiat and a Gilera 50cc, and we abused both of them for decades. The Fiat was so old at one point, it had rust holes all over the body. But it would still run smoothly.
agree, absolutely true. I had the same experience, my grandfather had a Lambretta, a Vespa like scooter, and a Fiat Panda. Both were in use until his death. The Panda must have lasted 15 years or more, and he did only minimal things, otherwise he was always in use.
@@TheJensss Thats not Italian, that is a joint venture by multiple nations. Those joint ventures are often plagued by various issues, so no surprises there.
@@Melior_Traiano True, but the same manufacturer was involved in that project also. To prove them self they have to deploy their helicopters and run them for 5 years to show how they work and how much they cost to operate. The American made helicopters often have eay lower cost for the flight hour
Italian were the first in Europe to make a tandem seat Attack helicopter. Not even gonna mention that they had the first flights in roughly the same type
😂🎉no you wrong Italy with Leonardo take to build at Future one at Europe to build and came from Tiger project so than start by Leonardo to make at Future not small lite size Compat there like to build fully compat Heli and before many many like together with Germany but German not understanding.Sorry for bad write
The UK needs to buy into this programme and stop relying on overexpensive America stuff that we can't afford. If Italy has confidence enough to buy into the Tempest program we should have the confidence to return the favour!
They already have a part of this the W in AW means westland...and the A is the Italian side of Augusta..like the Euro fighter the Eurocopter was the same sort of thing, this is basically a upgraded Eurocopter..
And probably 60% less capability to carry the sensors,Armour and missiles needed to deal with the latest threats. It probably also lacks range to avoid destruction by Iskander type missiles on the ground.
People are blind and dumb. The Fenice looks like a fatter, meaner Mangusta. I love the Apache as much as the next guy but thinking the Fenice looks the same just screams room temp IQ. Props to Italy for continuing to be a major player in the attack helicopter scene. I wonder when the US will field a next-gen helo instead of pumping out a million Apaches.
It's not the same as the Mangusta or the Apache (is based on the AW149). The Fenice have the payload lift of an Apache, semi-stealth capabilities, it goes faster and have a more extended op range than a Mangusta. And most important it have a multidomain and multitargeting warfare system (basically it can do what an F-35 do when it's not engaged in combat, function as awacs and target designator for all other army branches) and the Co-Pilot can remotely contro drones for reconnaissance or attacking support, and the Co-pilot not only can control the one fitted inside the heli but also all the other drones launched by land, giving to a single heli the capability to have a drone storm at his disposal. It's a different beast. Better even than the Apache.
@@Longhauler85 It was scrapped cause the US army didn't thinked to use it as an air command controller for drones other than an attack heli. A thing that Italians did apparently.
Im surprised no one has said anything desparaging, like attack helicopters are dead because - stealth drones. Well, I feel they are still very much needed. It's a shame big army nixed the Bell 360 Invictus, as it has a place on the modern battlefield.
@@Leptospirosi you are right. I assumed it the same size, similar to other European attack helicopters, like A129 and Tiger. Still layout is much like A129, so I think it's more relevant here
I wonder how much appetite there will be for manned low altitude rotary wing attack platforms in 10 years. They're quite expensive and they'll need to contend with both drones and anti-drone platforms both of which will become ubiquitous.
Well if you believe the Russian, they said both Mi28M and Ka52 played a very significant role in stopping Ukraine counter offensive with their long range weapon.
When you realize that this heli can remotely operate drones for reconnaissance and attack via Co-pilot. And not only the drone it have fitted inside but all the drones launched via land or sea...
We already have some powerful electronic warfare and soft-kill capabilities that can be equipped on helicopters. Helicopters won't go away, but the doctrine will definitely change.
This one would suit the Germans better than the AH-64E they are looking at. They want to replace the Eurocopter Tigre but for now they only seem to be looking at a very lightweight utility helicopter and the too heavy for most tasks Guardian. It looks like this is a good alternative for the replacement, not too heavy and a true gunship.
@@jacksonteller1337 Say that to Germans. Leonardo and the Italian army wanted the Leopard 2A8 for the Army, KM at first said yes and signed a memorandum with Leonardo where them asked to buy the Leopard but to have some production line settled in Italy for homegrow working, then KM refused the memorandum and gived an ultimatum to Leonardo saying that if they want the Leopard they should have just buyed it, with strong restriction upon the use and that for the spare parts they should have also buyed it trough KM. This seems crazy for a 30 y/o project, so Leonardo rightly refused saying to KM that it was not acceptable. That surely will lead Leonardo to no agree with any German request for thr AW249...rightly i should say.
@@solinvictus1234 that is not how businesses work. Being butthurt because projects fall through due to conflicting interests is in itself bad business. You are essentialy suggesting Leonardo rejecting a multi billion Euro contract from a customer because some other company this customer has close business ties with was a meanie. That is idiotic
It will probably carry Mistral's, just like the Mangusta currently in service. Its a modern IR-missile with IRCCM and overall great seeker. Basically more than enough for what Helicopter can face
There are new techs coming out at the next 5 years which will prevent AA seeking and others that will add long range Air-to-Ground lethality. Gunships are far from obsolete, they will be a great defensive/counter-attacking measure in the 30s.
It can remotely control drones via copilot. Not only his drone but all the drones launched via land or sea. It have multidomain and multitargeting systems (it's also an awacs basically). So yeah, actually until US will not launch a new heli, this one raised the bar of the best worlds heli.
@@solinvictus1234 This is the way forward for the attack helicopter, to be drone "mothership", with a firepower of its own. I'm curious if Airbus decides to build a military version of the Racer helicopter.
It looks too close to A129&T129 to be called 'entirely new design', it is literally improved version of a proven design. It isn't a bad thing at all rather a good thing and i'm sure it would perform well for Italy. My only concern would be why they didn't move 20mm cannon a little bit back under fuselage. If it is so close to sensors on nose it affects them badly while firing.
It have nothing to do with the A129 or T129 (that are the same heli if you don't know). It is entirely based on the AW149. Saying that it resemble the A129 it mean being blind.
@@solinvictus1234 You are partially right about AW149, due to the company’s family concept, but it also has some systems solutions developed for this aircraft (clearly not related to the weapon systems).
Same designer, similar layout. Note it is twice the weight, has no parts in common with 129. its also based on 149 engine-transmission-rotors, while 129 dynamic system was stand-alone, no 129 part had a civil relative. 129 is super nice but you cant squeeze much more into 4500kg M.T.O.W., at some point it became "you want the fuel or the ammo?" problem. Consider 129 was for national defense, short range hit and run. And now it has to do long range mission on the desert with an extra gun, extra avionics and weapons it was never designed for. They did great but 129 is stretched to the limit. A completely new heli was needed at this point.
about the gun...if you crash land, the gun doesnt end up in the cockpit. Idk if theres another reason. 129 had a record of very good crash survivability.
Germany, and perhaps the aussies, should give it a try, given their past (& VERY unpleasant !) experience with the awful Tiger, ironically born by the french as counterpart to the A129, and that, after a long development (from early '80s to 21th century!), was refused by a lot of clients, for all the problems it caused. Now Germany is without AT choppers, and project to replace its' with a military version of a civilian one, but generally these ones doesn't end well on the battlefront.
People keep crying about how these are supposedly obsolete on modern battlefields. First of all that’s false. Second, Italian armed forces rely on copters for all sorts of operations that don’t include active combat: SAR (Italy is in the middle of the sea, the inner of the country is completely covered with wild mountains, I’d say search and rescue is a pretty big concern for Italians), coastal patrol, anti-piracy, medevac, the list goes on. Not to mention how heavily Italians rely on SOF and Special Forces, who mostly intrude and extrude through copters.
@@patriotsakaalsalazar4111 LoL. Pathetic try. So why don't you say the same about the Mangusta and the Cobra? Ah, because you didn't even know it existed? I'm not here to teach you the history of military aircraft, open a book or google it.
The arrogant Americans are critical of Italian weapons and then are forced to have the ships built by Italy see FREEM type model and then call them by another name, so give to Caesar what is Caesar's
non nominare le fremm che hanno stravolto e allungato i tempi di consegna armato peggio e modificato come una corvette da una ferrari hahaha e domanda loro cosa si sono comperati con il grey wolf (aw149) cioè la base del 249
Oh yeah, I'm sure having 20 or 30 of these things will make a huge difference in combat, just like the Tiger. These offerings are essentially jobs programs for EU defense contractors, not serious, competitive offerings.
@@jonathanbaird8109 Your serious and technological weapons the Russians in Ukraine are burning in large quantities, your Bradleys seem like paper, etc.
Oggi è l'unico elicottero da attacco moderno in Europa.RICORDIAMOCI ANCHE CHE (LEONARDO È L'UNCA AZIENDA IN EUROPA A POSSEDERE LA TECNOLOGIA TILT-ROTOR CON L'AW 609.GRAZIE🎉
It is broadly similar to the Rooivalk: same weight class and dimensions. The difference in about what is under the skin: advanced materials, composite rotors, state of the art engines, fly by wire controls and blades made to guide the air flow across the rotors through the fuselage: it is well known that the EH101 (another Leonardo machine) was a breeze to land in Afghanistan, as the downward wind was blowing dust away from the landing site instead of raising a storm which killed visibility. This is one of the worst characteristics of the Apache, for example, in the same conditions. Another aspect of a modern helicopter, compared to one 45 years old as the Rooivalk, is compatibility with upcoming technology and modules, where in an old airframe you have to bolt everything wherever you can squeeze it. Maintenance is improved tenfolds due to integrated design. The AW249 was designed drawing on the 40 years battlefield experience of the AW129 a smaller and lighter helicopter which was upgraded recently with the ATAK AT129 in Turkey. Overall, an attack helicopter does not change much in the external look, but behind the skin it could be a completely different beast from anything else. Being Leonardo one of the top world helicopter manufacturer, I guess they know how to do that.
reliability/maintenance is one. this is a 2020 helcopter. 1980 heli are so nice but also... lets say it was a different era, where aviation and hangar time were synonims.
@@solinvictus1234 every machine in the world gets old. But this helo is very special in point of India's view. For us the this is the great helo. Recently UK defence minister sanctioned and placed order for HAL PRACHAND Worth Rs 50,000 crores 🇮🇳
@@solinvictus1234 bhai ye sab chewtiyape waale comment kyon karte ho? Kisko ahankar dikha rahe ho bhai. Apne desh ki defense dusre desho se import hoti hai. Yaha Bangladesh ko appease karna padta hai, aur tum yaha rule wule ki chewtiyape waali baate kar ke Indians ki negative image banwa rahe ho. Kya milta hai aise comments karke?
Let's see if the Germans buy any. There was a news story a few years ago that most of the German military helicopters were broken down and out of service. A bit like the tanks, and submarines, and everything in the German military. Which would be one reason why they can't recruit enough soldiers. Who wants to work in a military where all the equipment you rely on to keep you alive is broken down.
Are you German? The Germans tend to support their own defense industry to retain the capabilities to produce their own weapons instead of buying everything from their allies. France, GB, Italy etc. all do the same. The low recruitment numbers are simply due to domestic politics (guilt over WWII, lack of national pride, leftist policies etc.). And if German equipment is so bad, then why do so many Western nations want to get German HK416 or SIGs, Leopard 2s, IRIS-T SLMs and Taurus cruise missiles for their militaries?
@3204clivesinclair Alternatively, it expands the local industry experience and competence, helps in innovation and improvements and stops your partner countries from scr*ng your happiness in event of a conflict when there is mismatch of geopolitical interest of your and your client country. 😉
Italy is like the biggest Helicopter manufacturer in the world, why would they buy a Boeing frames? Also Leonardo's helicoptets have been taking part in many conflicts in last decade and they already showed their worth
@@3204clivesinclair This Italian helicopter is based on the Mangusta which has been around since 1983. You guys sound like you have no clue / are a bunch of 12 year olds.
Looking at Ukraine I wonder how the world will change for helicopters in general. They're getting immensely fancy and probably quite expensive and yet from what has happened over there they seem very vulnerable to me. I'm no expert of course!
They have been vulnerable for Russians, mainly because they have no air supremacy and they use very poor tactics, which are dictated by the poor weaponary and sensors, which make them fly closer to the target. Modern helicopter with Data Link, ECM, EW, MAWRS and Fire and Forget missiles basically allow for Western helicopters to fly differently and not use them as a pseudo air-MLRS, which achieves basically nothing
If you're getting close enough to the enemy for them to be able to target the glass on your cockpit with small arms fire, then something has gone wrong on the mission. The glass also looks only slightly larger in surface area than an AH-64's.
On a future drone focused battlefield, it’s a waste of money. Especially when it come into service in 3 years. I’m sure drone tech will advance faster than bringing a human carrying machine into the air.
Why do you have to belittle the work? This machine does everything you said, it has the LIDAR system and acquires targets for all the operators in the field, and it can lead armed drones to the target.
@@AlFreeman-xy4jy In the end, it’s Italian tax payer money, so I don’t care. I’m just saying, from my point view, it’s not the best way of spending tax payer money. Maybe Italy has some kind of scenario where they need attack helicopters, I don’t know, I can’t see those scenarios at the moment.
Because the seating layout is generally superior, and that dictates the shape significantly. The easiest and most logical place to put the avionics is around the bottom of the cockpit, so you get that Apache-style bulge. And well, wing stubs are just a practicality. It's not that they all look like the Apache, it's that the Apache just got there first.
Mostly because the Apache looks like a cobra, but with a raised rear seat and wheels. You need a very slim profile from the front, to decrease the target, bulges to host a very strong landing gear, wings, to carry weapons, a rotor, two engines and a tail rotor. If you look the side of the AW249 and the AH64 they look very different, being conventional helicopters.
It looks like a Mangusta, helicopter that this one is replacing. Basically AW and Boeing made similiar helicopters at the same time. Both prototypes took first Flight in like a span of a Year. And why that specific design, is because tandem seats unable great visibility for both crewmen, Two Engines for more power and low hang tail for Flight characteristics
@@잡았다요놈-y9w 그들은 부러워합니다. 그들은 다른 나라가 그들과 같거나 그보다 더 높은 기술 수준을 가지고 있다는 것을 상상할 수 없습니다. 불행하게도 미국은 정신적으로 낙후되고, 오만하고, 오만한 평균 인구를 가진 국가가 되어가고 있습니다. 일반 미국인에게 한국이 고도로 문명화되고 현대화되었으며 기술적으로 발전했다고 말하면 그들은 거짓말을 하고 있고 독재가 있다고 말할 것입니다(그들은 남북한을 분할할 수 없기 때문입니다). 우리 유럽인과 아시아인은 미국인보다 주변 세계에 대해 훨씬 더 깊은 문화와 지식을 가지고 있습니다.
Yeah, it have the double of op range of the Apache, it can stay in flight 4 hours (vs the 2h of the Apache) it can carry more kilos at paylod that the Apache (1.995kilos the Apache, 2.800 kilo this one) But hey is not near as big as an Apache! US people, so delusional...
Looks to be a beast... but in three years time, AI and tech will have taken a quantum leap so I am expecting much more from this wonderful machine. Possibly even remote piloting?
Pretty sure this was the big part of new optics and sensors, to be future proof and allow compatibility with AI to increase the capabilities while not increasing the workload
It already have the remote piloting of drones integrated (a single drone or a storm of drones launced by land or sea) via copilot. Leonardo also build it woth an huge amount of free spaced data storage to future further AI implementation.
Looks like it’s deployment or mission time on the field will be very short due to its vulnerability being at low altitude, would need back up from SEAD planes to be remotely effective
Turkis defence? Ahahahah Turkish defence wasn't and aren't capable to fix or built anything, that's why they prayed on their knees Leonardo to sell them the capability to build the A-129 under the name ATAK. With this one it will not gonna happen.
turkish defence😂 t129 is not turkey made, it is just a variant of a129 assemblend in turkey under italy license, it has italian body(a129) and american engine(lhtec cts800), not a new heli, not a different heli
I'm been sceptical when you see how much trouble there has been with the NH90. They could not even deliver the once Norway ordered, and the once who was delivered had a huge amount of faults
Dude, you have very confused ideas, you're talking about one of the top four helicopter manufacturers in the world, so before saying that they are incapable you should read up and see how many fly without problems in the world!
Leonardo is involved with NHindustries only for the heli purposedly made for the Italian army branches, not for others countries orders. Agusta Westland is a different beast.
In a short time it will be the opposite. And by the way is derived from the AW149, nothing to do with the Apache, but you should know about heli to know that, child.
@@Christopher_Rock which is exactly why NO other attack helicopter has such an intrusive and active little instrument right in the corner of the pilot's vision, where it's guaranteed to be distracting! 😂
@@Christopher_Rock besides which, wind direction?? It's right underneath the rotor blades! Do you know what the wind direction is there - always? Down!
@@Christopher_Rock besides which, everything the helicopter moves in that video, the thing is twitching all over the place. How much attention is the pilot supposed to give it while also trying to fly this thing, attend to multiple radios, etc? The final word on it tho is that I'm obviously wrong about it, because it's been built, tested and flown by people who know what they're doing ... I just find it super-distracting!
@@MuStangBl1tS Sure my boy. For the exception that this one can carry the double of the weapon weight at payload, it have the double of the max op range and it can stay the double of the hours flying...than your Apache. Not mentioning how this one can remotely control drones and the Apache can't. Not even going deeply inside the avionics, radars and multidomain datalink systems speech where, comparing this one to an Apache is like comparing an F22 Raptor with an FA/18 Hornet...where the Hornet is the Apache. By the way is based on the AW149, it have nothing about the Apache. Chill out, the World din't revolve around you.
1. Is based on the AW149, nothing tondo with the Apache. 2. Actually is way better than an Apache, this 5 y/o draw have multidomain and multitargeting systems (it can do whan an F-35 can do in battle management), VRHUD, and it can remotely control storm of drones launched both by land and sea.
![[Live สด] การออกรางวัลสลากกินแบ่งรัฐบาล งวดวันที่ 16 พฤศจิกายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wPd7VFfWHIA/mqdefault.jpg)
Italy always had some of the world's greatest engineers. We Greeks always trusted Italian products. From simple hand tools to cars, they always produced top quality products.
My dad had a Fiat and a Gilera 50cc, and we abused both of them for decades. The Fiat was so old at one point, it had rust holes all over the body. But it would still run smoothly.
il Gilera 😍😍😍
agree, absolutely true. I had the same experience, my grandfather had a Lambretta, a Vespa like scooter, and a Fiat Panda. Both were in use until his death. The Panda must have lasted 15 years or more, and he did only minimal things, otherwise he was always in use.
Fiat from those years makes your arms strong 💪🏼 😂 steering that wheel isn’t easy people nowadays wouldn’t understand
The bots and 12 year olds have no clue that Italy has been building high-grade helicopters for more than 40 years now.
"High-grade" depends on who you ask. The NH90 series is not a success at all, just ask the Norwegians about that
@@TheJensss Thats not Italian, that is a joint venture by multiple nations. Those joint ventures are often plagued by various issues, so no surprises there.
@@Melior_Traiano True, but the same manufacturer was involved in that project also. To prove them self they have to deploy their helicopters and run them for 5 years to show how they work and how much they cost to operate. The American made helicopters often have eay lower cost for the flight hour
@@TheJensss Siemens trains also have problems, yesterday DB blocked the supply for example
@@intersezioni they had many years to fix the issues but never did...
Looks very competent, a good addition for Italy!
It looks like yet another undersized under-powered European attack helicopter that can't carry the sensors, systems, weapons and Armour needed.
Ero vicino al Lago di Fedaia a Trento e sono riuscito a vederlo in azione durante l'esercitazione Stella Alpina 2024 , bellissimo!!
Italian were the first in Europe to make a tandem seat Attack helicopter. Not even gonna mention that they had the first flights in roughly the same type
ok and ?
You sure? AH-1 cobra was the first attack helicopter
@@EthanThomson- True, but read the original comment - First in EUROPE. I don’t think the AH-Cobra is of European origin.
😂🎉no you wrong Italy with Leonardo take to build at Future one at Europe to build and came from Tiger project so than start by Leonardo to make at Future not small lite size Compat there like to build fully compat Heli and before many many like together with Germany but German not understanding.Sorry for bad write
@@pitmarkovic4545euro tiger project came after the first A-129. What the hell are you about?
Not often a brand new military helicopter hits the skies. Congrats!
Looks like a Mangusta and an Apache had a baby 😂
gaijin employee: write that down, write that down
The UK needs to buy into this programme and stop relying on overexpensive America stuff that we can't afford. If Italy has confidence enough to buy into the Tempest program we should have the confidence to return the favour!
Italy is in Tempest program
UK already has Wildcat Mk.1 and Apache. Is a total waste of money to replace right now. Maybe in 10 years.
They already have a part of this the W in AW means westland...and the A is the Italian side of Augusta..like the Euro fighter the Eurocopter was the same sort of thing, this is basically a upgraded Eurocopter..
You are right and I think italy should buy the challenger 3. We are sharing many programs at this point
@@Swift407 italians dont need to buy the challenger 3 they've built a superb one themselves called the C1 Ariete...
Looks good probably 60%less in cost than the Apache 😅
And probably 60% less capability to carry the sensors,Armour and missiles needed to deal with the latest threats. It probably also lacks range to avoid destruction by Iskander type missiles on the ground.
@@williamzk9083 it is highly probable you're a russian troll
@@williamzk9083 bla bal bla.. check apache specs first!
@@williamzk9083Sure buddy...it's clear that you don't know what are you talking about.
@@williamzk9083 apache got armor ? lol
Bravisimo Italy. Multo Bene!!
DaVinci still at it?
People are blind and dumb. The Fenice looks like a fatter, meaner Mangusta. I love the Apache as much as the next guy but thinking the Fenice looks the same just screams room temp IQ. Props to Italy for continuing to be a major player in the attack helicopter scene. I wonder when the US will field a next-gen helo instead of pumping out a million Apaches.
It's not the same as the Mangusta or the Apache (is based on the AW149). The Fenice have the payload lift of an Apache, semi-stealth capabilities, it goes faster and have a more extended op range than a Mangusta. And most important it have a multidomain and multitargeting warfare system (basically it can do what an F-35 do when it's not engaged in combat, function as awacs and target designator for all other army branches) and the Co-Pilot can remotely contro drones for reconnaissance or attacking support, and the Co-pilot not only can control the one fitted inside the heli but also all the other drones launched by land, giving to a single heli the capability to have a drone storm at his disposal.
It's a different beast. Better even than the Apache.
@@solinvictus1234 Thanks for reading me the press release. I never said they were the same.
Well, we were developing the Comanche stealth attack helicopter in the 90's and early 2000's, but that program got scrapped in 2006. So who knows.
@@Longhauler85 It was scrapped cause the US army didn't thinked to use it as an air command controller for drones other than an attack heli. A thing that Italians did apparently.
Yes :.... but clown comentary dont'have sense!!!
Im surprised no one has said anything desparaging, like attack helicopters are dead because - stealth drones. Well, I feel they are still very much needed. It's a shame big army nixed the Bell 360 Invictus, as it has a place on the modern battlefield.
Cause this heli can remotely control storm of drones, plus it have jamming capabilities against any drones would get closer to it.
Attack helicopters aren't dead
It looks like Agusta A129 Mangusta - current Italian attack helicopter. Why compare it to Apache?
Because it has the weight and the size of an Apache, while the Mangusta is half of that.
Huzzah!!! A man of quality!!
Because Media are clueless. Fenice looks like Mangusta, one of the first attack Helicopters, and they are like: APACHEEE!
@@Leptospirosi you are right. I assumed it the same size, similar to other European attack helicopters, like A129 and Tiger. Still layout is much like A129, so I think it's more relevant here
Because the Apache is the gold standard for attack helicopters
What I find amazing is how Italians can fly while gesturing with both hands.
We have a prehensile proboscis, that's how 😉
@@andreasilvestri1696 We didnt want to know about how you breed, THANKS!
@@4DCResinSmoker oh, I beg your pardon. thought you were asking to satisfy your CURIOSITY
"phoenix ... has no ashes to rise from" made me laugh, thanks
Ah no.... mangusta???...but to no brain people.....what????
I wonder how much appetite there will be for manned low altitude rotary wing attack platforms in 10 years. They're quite expensive and they'll need to contend with both drones and anti-drone platforms both of which will become ubiquitous.
Well if you believe the Russian, they said both Mi28M and Ka52 played a very significant role in stopping Ukraine counter offensive with their long range weapon.
When you realize that this heli can remotely operate drones for reconnaissance and attack via Co-pilot. And not only the drone it have fitted inside but all the drones launched via land or sea...
We already have some powerful electronic warfare and soft-kill capabilities that can be equipped on helicopters.
Helicopters won't go away, but the doctrine will definitely change.
This one would suit the Germans better than the AH-64E they are looking at. They want to replace the Eurocopter Tigre but for now they only seem to be looking at a very lightweight utility helicopter and the too heavy for most tasks Guardian. It looks like this is a good alternative for the replacement, not too heavy and a true gunship.
Leonardo will never sell it to Germany, not after what the German Krauss-Maffei did to them.
@@solinvictus1234 that's the hurt bottom actions that eventually led to two world wars. It starts with small things.
@@jacksonteller1337 Say that to Germans. Leonardo and the Italian army wanted the Leopard 2A8 for the Army, KM at first said yes and signed a memorandum with Leonardo where them asked to buy the Leopard but to have some production line settled in Italy for homegrow working, then KM refused the memorandum and gived an ultimatum to Leonardo saying that if they want the Leopard they should have just buyed it, with strong restriction upon the use and that for the spare parts they should have also buyed it trough KM. This seems crazy for a 30 y/o project, so Leonardo rightly refused saying to KM that it was not acceptable.
That surely will lead Leonardo to no agree with any German request for thr AW249...rightly i should say.
@@solinvictus1234 that is not how businesses work. Being butthurt because projects fall through due to conflicting interests is in itself bad business.
You are essentialy suggesting Leonardo rejecting a multi billion Euro contract from a customer because some other company this customer has close business ties with was a meanie.
That is idiotic
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if the German Army settles for the Apache, just based on the amount of airframes and spare parts there are.
With all anti air weapons.... Are these still good on a Modern battlefield?
It will probably carry Mistral's, just like the Mangusta currently in service. Its a modern IR-missile with IRCCM and overall great seeker. Basically more than enough for what Helicopter can face
There are new techs coming out at the next 5 years which will prevent AA seeking and others that will add long range Air-to-Ground lethality. Gunships are far from obsolete, they will be a great defensive/counter-attacking measure in the 30s.
It can remotely control drones via copilot. Not only his drone but all the drones launched via land or sea.
It have multidomain and multitargeting systems (it's also an awacs basically).
So yeah, actually until US will not launch a new heli, this one raised the bar of the best worlds heli.
It's not like fate of tank
Aircraft are often untouchable
@@solinvictus1234 This is the way forward for the attack helicopter, to be drone "mothership", with a firepower of its own.
I'm curious if Airbus decides to build a military version of the Racer helicopter.
Put it in the next Bond movie! 😍
It looks too close to A129&T129 to be called 'entirely new design', it is literally improved version of a proven design. It isn't a bad thing at all rather a good thing and i'm sure it would perform well for Italy. My only concern would be why they didn't move 20mm cannon a little bit back under fuselage. If it is so close to sensors on nose it affects them badly while firing.
If you use the same approach without knowing the design you can sated that the WV Golf is always the same.
It have nothing to do with the A129 or T129 (that are the same heli if you don't know). It is entirely based on the AW149. Saying that it resemble the A129 it mean being blind.
@@solinvictus1234 You are partially right about AW149, due to the company’s family concept, but it also has some systems solutions developed for this aircraft (clearly not related to the weapon systems).
Same designer, similar layout. Note it is twice the weight, has no parts in common with 129. its also based on 149 engine-transmission-rotors, while 129 dynamic system was stand-alone, no 129 part had a civil relative. 129 is super nice but you cant squeeze much more into 4500kg M.T.O.W., at some point it became "you want the fuel or the ammo?" problem. Consider 129 was for national defense, short range hit and run. And now it has to do long range mission on the desert with an extra gun, extra avionics and weapons it was never designed for. They did great but 129 is stretched to the limit. A completely new heli was needed at this point.
about the gun...if you crash land, the gun doesnt end up in the cockpit. Idk if theres another reason. 129 had a record of very good crash survivability.
Quando entrerà in servizio spero presto
Germany, and perhaps the aussies, should give it a try, given their past (& VERY unpleasant !) experience with the awful Tiger, ironically born by the french as counterpart to the A129, and that, after a long development (from early '80s to 21th century!), was refused by a lot of clients, for all the problems it caused. Now Germany is without AT choppers, and project to replace its' with a military version of a civilian one, but generally these ones doesn't end well on the battlefront.
Who let an Apache and Cobra make Italian babies?
It derives from the AW 149. Nor Apache neither Cobra have anything to do with it
Aw249 Is to much Power!!;
The fenice is better my man
Chi ha permesso di appropriarsi dei disegni di Leonardo? :)
No special permission needed in Italy.
People keep crying about how these are supposedly obsolete on modern battlefields. First of all that’s false. Second, Italian armed forces rely on copters for all sorts of operations that don’t include active combat: SAR (Italy is in the middle of the sea, the inner of the country is completely covered with wild mountains, I’d say search and rescue is a pretty big concern for Italians), coastal patrol, anti-piracy, medevac, the list goes on. Not to mention how heavily Italians rely on SOF and Special Forces, who mostly intrude and extrude through copters.
Whats the little thing on a gimble wobbling around on the left hand side?
Looks like Indian LCH but LCH with it's french engine is better for high altitude warfare!
Better or worst use Better if not
It's basically a modern version of the cobra.
no?
It's a modern version of the Mangusta.
@@paolocarpi4769 which one came first the mangosta or cobra?
@@patriotsakaalsalazar4111 LoL. Pathetic try.
So why don't you say the same about the Mangusta and the Cobra?
Ah, because you didn't even know it existed?
I'm not here to teach you the history of military aircraft, open a book or google it.
It looks like LCH prachand. :)
The arrogant Americans are critical of Italian weapons and then are forced to have the ships built by Italy see FREEM type model and then call them by another name, so give to Caesar what is Caesar's
non nominare le fremm che hanno stravolto e allungato i tempi di consegna armato peggio e modificato come una corvette da una ferrari hahaha e domanda loro cosa si sono comperati con il grey wolf (aw149) cioè la base del 249
Oh yeah, I'm sure having 20 or 30 of these things will make a huge difference in combat, just like the Tiger. These offerings are essentially jobs programs for EU defense contractors, not serious, competitive offerings.
@@jonathanbaird8109 Your serious and technological weapons the Russians in Ukraine are burning in large quantities, your Bradleys seem like paper, etc.
Behold the Appacci
Oggi è l'unico elicottero da attacco moderno in Europa.RICORDIAMOCI ANCHE CHE (LEONARDO È L'UNCA AZIENDA IN EUROPA A POSSEDERE LA TECNOLOGIA TILT-ROTOR CON L'AW 609.GRAZIE🎉
Could you perhaps compare it to the South African Rooivalk?
Maybe better to Italian Agusta A129?
It is broadly similar to the Rooivalk: same weight class and dimensions. The difference in about what is under the skin: advanced materials, composite rotors, state of the art engines, fly by wire controls and blades made to guide the air flow across the rotors through the fuselage: it is well known that the EH101 (another Leonardo machine) was a breeze to land in Afghanistan, as the downward wind was blowing dust away from the landing site instead of raising a storm which killed visibility. This is one of the worst characteristics of the Apache, for example, in the same conditions.
Another aspect of a modern helicopter, compared to one 45 years old as the Rooivalk, is compatibility with upcoming technology and modules, where in an old airframe you have to bolt everything wherever you can squeeze it. Maintenance is improved tenfolds due to integrated design.
The AW249 was designed drawing on the 40 years battlefield experience of the AW129 a smaller and lighter helicopter which was upgraded recently with the ATAK AT129 in Turkey.
Overall, an attack helicopter does not change much in the external look, but behind the skin it could be a completely different beast from anything else.
Being Leonardo one of the top world helicopter manufacturer, I guess they know how to do that.
Looks like a modernised Rooivalk
😂😂😂
Looks like a modernised A-129 to me. And to the rest of the world
No it doesn't. Not at all actually.
How is this an improvement over the Tiger?
Because it isn't. Tiger it's a completely different project between france and germany
reliability/maintenance is one. this is a 2020 helcopter. 1980 heli are so nice but also... lets say it was a different era, where aviation and hangar time were synonims.
Some needs to build real Airwoof and Blue Thunder
Bloo Thunder.
@@Twirlyhead maybe like my comment like I liked yours . Please
WOOF! (Wasn’t it actually called AirWOLF?) 😀
Bellísimo
Looks like if you ordered an Apache ordered from Temu!
Clueless
it's probably good, Italians make good stuff, definitely not Chinesium
Like a Ford 150 bought from Mercedes. You can expect some improvements 😏
This helicopter is better than the Apache!
Hehehe
I mean the design looks very apache and cobra. it wouldnt surprise me if there were a lot of design queues taken from both those aircraft
Temu Apache.
Who have almost all their factories in China is USA, not Italy. Enjoy your I-phone made in beijing kiddo.
@@Ummmmmkay88 I din't ask an selfdescription of yourself, snowflake.
What is the price per unit?
Didn't the US Army build something like this in 1979?
What a beauty!
"Mamma mia, can we have Apache Attack Helicopter?"
"No, We have Apache at home!"
Apache at home:
Slow clap 👏 😂
Better than an apache
Is based on the AW149. Actually is better than the Apache.
Looks like a Denel Rooivalk :)
No it doesn't.
Looks nice im not sure which is better this or the Prachand i think im gona go with the Prachand
Whers the radar?
side cyclic ? interesting
Please give its capabilities in metric units (km/s instead of knots, m/s instead of feet/s).
No expert but I think aviation uses Imperial units (sort of).
Knots is still the ICAO unit for speed and feet for altitude.
Nobody except russians use metrics over imperial in aviation.
Bang 👊🇮🇹👍
Looks like Turkish Atak 2.
Looks you're blind. Plus the atak 2 is a non existent thing.
😂😂😂Turkey only knows how to copy Italian technology from helicopters to naval guns and cars
Prachand of hindustan aeronautics limited will rule the world
Prachand is a light heli with already outdated features, things that, for example an old Tiger in his first version and not updated already has.
@@solinvictus1234 every machine in the world gets old. But this helo is very special in point of India's view. For us the this is the great helo. Recently UK defence minister sanctioned and placed order for HAL PRACHAND Worth Rs 50,000 crores 🇮🇳
@@solinvictus1234 bhai ye sab chewtiyape waale comment kyon karte ho? Kisko ahankar dikha rahe ho bhai. Apne desh ki defense dusre desho se import hoti hai. Yaha Bangladesh ko appease karna padta hai, aur tum yaha rule wule ki chewtiyape waali baate kar ke Indians ki negative image banwa rahe ho. Kya milta hai aise comments karke?
@@Rahul_Singh100cause i'm fighting the fake info people give upon this machineries.
Looks abit like blue thunder… abit.
apache light
It carries more kilos at payload than the Apache. Is the Apache that is light under than point of view.
Same as hal lch
In your wet dreams....maybe
does it have a cappuccino machine
Capuccino is better than garbage ketchup !
Wow! very original!
why no mast mounted sensors ?
They seem to have gone the 'stealthy' route, and a Longbow-style radar would counteract that. But who knows? It may be modular.
Optional extra.
우수한 BERP 블레이드 기술을 사용하겠죠?
Yes
Looks like an Apache made from legos
What are ‘legos’?
@@Jimmythefish577what kind of childhood did you have if you don’t know what LEGOS are?
@@MassBuilder1221 Legos arent a real thing, you must mean Lego
Looks like you're blind. Is based on the AW 149.
Let's see if the Germans buy any.
There was a news story a few years ago that most of the German military helicopters were broken down and out of service. A bit like the tanks, and submarines, and everything in the German military.
Which would be one reason why they can't recruit enough soldiers. Who wants to work in a military where all the equipment you rely on to keep you alive is broken down.
Are you German?
The Germans tend to support their own defense industry to retain the capabilities to produce their own weapons instead of buying everything from their allies. France, GB, Italy etc. all do the same.
The low recruitment numbers are simply due to domestic politics (guilt over WWII, lack of national pride, leftist policies etc.).
And if German equipment is so bad, then why do so many Western nations want to get German HK416 or SIGs, Leopard 2s, IRIS-T SLMs and Taurus cruise missiles for their militaries?
German policymakers will need to begin to start taking defense expenditures seriously for any change to materialize.
At least they don't take the easy route by just buying American.
Buying a proven off the shelf aircraft saves on developing your own product.
@3204clivesinclair
Alternatively, it expands the local industry experience and competence, helps in innovation and improvements and stops your partner countries from scr*ng your happiness in event of a conflict when there is mismatch of geopolitical interest of your and your client country. 😉
Italy has a helicopter industry - why support someone elses's?
Italy is like the biggest Helicopter manufacturer in the world, why would they buy a Boeing frames? Also Leonardo's helicoptets have been taking part in many conflicts in last decade and they already showed their worth
@@3204clivesinclair This Italian helicopter is based on the Mangusta which has been around since 1983. You guys sound like you have no clue / are a bunch of 12 year olds.
Would be good against small boats, just saying….
Looking at Ukraine I wonder how the world will change for helicopters in general. They're getting immensely fancy and probably quite expensive and yet from what has happened over there they seem very vulnerable to me. I'm no expert of course!
They have been vulnerable for Russians, mainly because they have no air supremacy and they use very poor tactics, which are dictated by the poor weaponary and sensors, which make them fly closer to the target. Modern helicopter with Data Link, ECM, EW, MAWRS and Fire and Forget missiles basically allow for Western helicopters to fly differently and not use them as a pseudo air-MLRS, which achieves basically nothing
The Italian version of "Blue Thunder" movie (1983).
Seems less capable than an Apache, especially the latest AH-47E, so a direct comparison seems unfair.
Seems...you said it well.
Cockpit area looks extremely vulnerable to everything
If you're getting close enough to the enemy for them to be able to target the glass on your cockpit with small arms fire, then something has gone wrong on the mission. The glass also looks only slightly larger in surface area than an AH-64's.
On a future drone focused battlefield, it’s a waste of money. Especially when it come into service in 3 years. I’m sure drone tech will advance faster than bringing a human carrying machine into the air.
Until you realize that this heli can remotely operate a storm of drones via copilot. Launched both via land and sea.
@@solinvictus1234 Something the US army can do for years from the other side of the world…
Why do you have to belittle the work? This machine does everything you said, it has the LIDAR system and acquires targets for all the operators in the field, and it can lead armed drones to the target.
@@AlFreeman-xy4jy In the end, it’s Italian tax payer money, so I don’t care. I’m just saying, from my point view, it’s not the best way of spending tax payer money. Maybe Italy has some kind of scenario where they need attack helicopters, I don’t know, I can’t see those scenarios at the moment.
@@oSJmee Nope, it can't do that on Apaches.
Why is it they all tend to look like the Apache???
Because the seating layout is generally superior, and that dictates the shape significantly. The easiest and most logical place to put the avionics is around the bottom of the cockpit, so you get that Apache-style bulge. And well, wing stubs are just a practicality.
It's not that they all look like the Apache, it's that the Apache just got there first.
Mostly because the Apache looks like a cobra, but with a raised rear seat and wheels.
You need a very slim profile from the front, to decrease the target, bulges to host a very strong landing gear, wings, to carry weapons, a rotor, two engines and a tail rotor.
If you look the side of the AW249 and the AH64 they look very different, being conventional helicopters.
It looks like a Mangusta, helicopter that this one is replacing. Basically AW and Boeing made similiar helicopters at the same time. Both prototypes took first Flight in like a span of a Year. And why that specific design, is because tandem seats unable great visibility for both crewmen, Two Engines for more power and low hang tail for Flight characteristics
Is it just my imagination - or does this helicopter look very much like the old South African Rooivalk attack helicopter...
Is based on the AW149. Nothing to do with Rooivalk
@@solinvictus1234AW129
Its only your imaginatio
@@B-A-L Nope, not based on the Mangusta as people believe. It's officially based on Agusta Westland AW149, as Leonardo also stated.
Heavy Class
Looks like an Apache designed by someone who only heard what an Apache looked like.
A 129 mangusta...
1. This is based on the AW149.
2. Leonardo actually build Apaches with his Agusta Westland branch, for UK.
3. Now return to play COD kiddo
Another stupid comment among others ...😂
@@solinvictus1234 미국인들이 이탈리아가 아파치 디자인 배꼈다는식으로 놀리는게 마치 우리 kf21이 f35을 배꼈다고 놀리는 것과 비슷해서 마음이 아프네요....
@@잡았다요놈-y9w 그들은 부러워합니다. 그들은 다른 나라가 그들과 같거나 그보다 더 높은 기술 수준을 가지고 있다는 것을 상상할 수 없습니다. 불행하게도 미국은 정신적으로 낙후되고, 오만하고, 오만한 평균 인구를 가진 국가가 되어가고 있습니다. 일반 미국인에게 한국이 고도로 문명화되고 현대화되었으며 기술적으로 발전했다고 말하면 그들은 거짓말을 하고 있고 독재가 있다고 말할 것입니다(그들은 남북한을 분할할 수 없기 때문입니다). 우리 유럽인과 아시아인은 미국인보다 주변 세계에 대해 훨씬 더 깊은 문화와 지식을 가지고 있습니다.
Lch prachand is god against this
Not near as big as an apache
Yeah, it have the double of op range of the Apache, it can stay in flight 4 hours (vs the 2h of the Apache) it can carry more kilos at paylod that the Apache (1.995kilos the Apache, 2.800 kilo this one)
But hey is not near as big as an Apache!
US people, so delusional...
They just discovered the long bow apache 🤯
They already knowed it. Leonardo build all the UK Apache since years.
@@solinvictus1234The AN/APG-78 Longbow isn’t manufactured by Leonardo though, it’s exclusively manufactured by LM and Northrop.
@@Gridlocked UK doesn't have AN/APG-78 fitted on their Apaches. There's tech that US do not concede to their allies
Looks to be a beast... but in three years time, AI and tech will have taken a quantum leap so I am expecting much more from this wonderful machine. Possibly even remote piloting?
Pretty sure this was the big part of new optics and sensors, to be future proof and allow compatibility with AI to increase the capabilities while not increasing the workload
It already have the remote piloting of drones integrated (a single drone or a storm of drones launced by land or sea) via copilot.
Leonardo also build it woth an huge amount of free spaced data storage to future further AI implementation.
Looks like it’s deployment or mission time on the field will be very short due to its vulnerability being at low altitude, would need back up from SEAD planes to be remotely effective
It has LIDAR and can control dozens of armed drones that will make all the difference.
Got nothing on Goldeneyes Eurocopter Tiger.
lol looks like a mashup between an Apache and the old Cobra.
Turkish defence is fixing up their issues !!
Turkis defence? Ahahahah Turkish defence wasn't and aren't capable to fix or built anything, that's why they prayed on their knees Leonardo to sell them the capability to build the A-129 under the name ATAK.
With this one it will not gonna happen.
turkish defence😂 t129 is not turkey made, it is just a variant of a129 assemblend in turkey under italy license, it has italian body(a129) and american engine(lhtec cts800), not a new heli, not a different heli
LOL That looks like a pleasure cruise copter
An upgraded mangusta
Wrong
Looks like copy of HAL Prachand LCH
Is based on the AW149...
Hal pra what? "😂
Hahahahaha! No it doesn't, it looks like a modernized AW129 Mangusta. Nice try adding India for no reason.
I'm been sceptical when you see how much trouble there has been with the NH90. They could not even deliver the once Norway ordered, and the once who was delivered had a huge amount of faults
NHIndustries....is not only Leonardo!
@@riccardo.pratesi I know, but they are involved
Dude, you have very confused ideas, you're talking about one of the top four helicopter manufacturers in the world, so before saying that they are incapable you should read up and see how many fly without problems in the world!
Leonardo is involved with NHindustries only for the heli purposedly made for the Italian army branches, not for others countries orders. Agusta Westland is a different beast.
@@ThunderboltTeheRoss I just said I was skeptical because a delivery they where a part on was a complete failure.
👍
Looks like an apache from Wish
Childs like you should stop to having weird eyes. It's based upon the AW149 how coult it resemble an Apache? The world doesn't spin around US.
🇮🇹
Mom: we have an apache at home..
The Apache at home...
In a short time it will be the opposite.
And by the way is derived from the AW149, nothing to do with the Apache, but you should know about heli to know that, child.
That instrument mounted just outside the left side of the canopy looks SUPER distracting
Kinda important for the pilot to see wind direction 😂
@@Christopher_Rock which is exactly why NO other attack helicopter has such an intrusive and active little instrument right in the corner of the pilot's vision, where it's guaranteed to be distracting! 😂
@@Christopher_Rock besides which, wind direction?? It's right underneath the rotor blades! Do you know what the wind direction is there - always? Down!
@@Christopher_Rock besides which, everything the helicopter moves in that video, the thing is twitching all over the place. How much attention is the pilot supposed to give it while also trying to fly this thing, attend to multiple radios, etc? The final word on it tho is that I'm obviously wrong about it, because it's been built, tested and flown by people who know what they're doing ... I just find it super-distracting!
Atak-2 ?
No
😆😆😆
So they build an 80s era attack helicopter platform to deploy in 2027? I'm sure it'll be fine.
The AW249 is based (and share parts) withthe AW149 (first flight 2009).
So you don't know what are you saying.
Ngl I laughed when I first saw it. Think it's the windows, they look goofy.
hi
that "hi" was a test, the Woke google now deletes a hi too
Yeah right, that is not started from ground😂
Cardboard apahce
Stay chill, italians are not muricans that firstly build cardboard LCS ships and then scrap them to buy Italian FREMM frigates.
Sleep well.
@@solinvictus1234 ok, that still looks like cardboard apachr
@@MuStangBl1tS Sure my boy. For the exception that this one can carry the double of the weapon weight at payload, it have the double of the max op range and it can stay the double of the hours flying...than your Apache.
Not mentioning how this one can remotely control drones and the Apache can't.
Not even going deeply inside the avionics, radars and multidomain datalink systems speech where, comparing this one to an Apache is like comparing an F22 Raptor with an FA/18 Hornet...where the Hornet is the Apache.
By the way is based on the AW149, it have nothing about the Apache. Chill out, the World din't revolve around you.
@@solinvictus1234 blink twice if youre from italy, i would defend my heritage too
What are its pronouns?
🔑🔑🔑🥇👨👩👧💛💛🏏🏏🏏🏏
It looks like a 5 year old trying to draw an apache came to life
Or, it looks exactly similar to the helicopter it is replacing, that was build by the same company. So strange
You sound like a 5 year old, whos never even heard about the Mangusta, which has been around since 1983...
1. Is based on the AW149, nothing tondo with the Apache.
2. Actually is way better than an Apache, this 5 y/o draw have multidomain and multitargeting systems (it can do whan an F-35 can do in battle management), VRHUD, and it can remotely control storm of drones launched both by land and sea.
Attack Helicopters are obsolete. Drones have replaced it in Ukraine
This can remotely operate via copilot storm of drones.
Apache Copy 😁😁😁😁😁
I speak behalf of US.
Based on AW149, nothing to do with Apache. See an Oculist.
India's Prachand Light combat helicopter is much better capable of operating at more than 22000 ft. And modern avionics!!
I don't think so. But you're Indian so i bet you will not know why, so i will not waste my time.