@@tracyschnurr8685 Is there any latency involved? I only have an apollo x8p and have accumlated some outboard gear and need more I/O, but don't want to reconfigure my whole studio with a patchbay.
@@adee2569 well..best I can tell ya...yes and no. I run out of a motu 16. The adats out go into ferrofish and the ferrofish converts to analog outs so I can run those through lots of outboard eqs. (1/4 inch) Then...they go back into daw. The daw inserts set up should read the round-trip latency and adjust. The ferro itself isn't slowing it down so much as the entire round trip.
I was working in Belgium, and had a weekend off so I spent my time going to music stores. One of those stores introduced me to the craneborne rack. They had them in the store. Hey sold me on it along with there preamp.(I bought two) I got done with my project and packed it up in my suitcase. And it was so nerve-racking knowing what airlines do to luggage. It was the only thing I could think about. But all was good, and got it all running at home. I love it, I bought a couple of the breakout boxes. Not only did it sound and function great. It cleaned up a lot of cable's. I had so many rugs on the floor to cover my cables so people didn't trip and rip anything out. Now I don't need them. To me it's awesome.
I’d like a video on that Cranborne please, just going over why it’s kind of unique, workflow uses, benefits vs other lunchboxes etc - enjoy all the videos, keep em coming
had multiple io adat expansions throughout the years, used to look all the adat IO expansions, and in the end i switched to AVB (motu) and never looked back... one ethernet cable and you can route however you want it, zero latency, control it with your pc, phone, tablet... or with other computers that are on the network, basically you can link up to 35 cards on one network (with additional AVB card routers, 5 interfaces per one router, 7 routers max)! and use which ever one on network you want... thats like, a building full of studios :) AVB is basically open source dante, so its way cheaper... you can add multiple cards and have all the IOs, or preamps that you want, and all in 192kHz, no channel limitations, (near) zero latency... and you can mix it on your phone or tablet as long as they are on the same network... if you have RME, it also has AVB and its own routing mixer... presonus also has AVB, and it probably has its own mixer, and it is maybe the best choice money-per-channel conversion you can get... ferrofish is also great... they are pretty much best choices... i wouldn`t switch back to adat now, since its channel/sample rate limitations, there are cards with 24 or more channels that you can connect to your card if it has AVB or dante
AVB is an amazing option, that opens up so many choices, that said, it's not available in all interfaces, so depending on what a person has, and frankly the level of converter, ADAT is more universal at this point. Let's hope that changes over time as AVB/Dante/MADI become more common in the home market.
Barry, I’ve never used the cranborne audio but it seems to get favorable reviews in the hard rock recording community. I’m gonna bring up the ugly B word and discuss an ADAT interface. I have an Audient ID14 MkII which I find to be an excellent project studio performer. I originally purchased the Audient ASP 800 as an 8 channel expansion for around US$800. It’s a solid unit and it has 2 very interesting coloring preamps, but I just needed six additional line level ins, and no preamps really. Again please forgive me but I’m gonna mention the B word. I sent the Audient ASP 800 back after trying a Behringer ADA 8200 @ $150. The ADA 8200 has solid timing and gives me up to eight additional line level or microphone level inputs. Very low self noise and it just works. I keep trying to find things wrong with it but it just works. Now again I don’t use the preamps, only the line levels, but it truly is a bang for the buck so far. Again I apologize for using the B word on your channel 😀 Thank you.
At the end of last year i changed my setup. I`ve bought an RME Madiface HDSPe, it runs perfectly fine via an express card to PCIe adapter. This Bundle i get for arround 80,- Euros at Ebay... than i pair it with a Ferrofisch Pulse 16 MX (The Version with Madi) witch i get for arround 850,- Euro (1year old). Via the Adat on the Pulse i can get another 16 I/O via any ADAT Converter... so i have great convertion (sonds definatly better then my old RME Multiface 2) and a freakin fast interface witch runs perfectly stable for really god bang for the buck. If i sometimes need more than 32 I/O than it is possible to cascade this Pulse units... but i think i will not need this in any time. :-) All the best from Germany
I use the Ferrofish Pulse 16 MX (MADI), but using ADAT at the moment. Hype is real, great piece of equipment, with the same parent company as RME, I run into my UA Apollo to give me 32 I/O. Warmth with UA conversion, ultimate clarity from the Cirrus AD/DA of the Ferrofish - both of best worlds flavor. IMO the Ferrofish has a better master clock (over word clock), made the Apollo tighten up. The Ferrofish up until recently has flown largely under the radar. Had mine over a year, and it’s the cornerstone of my studio.
I was looking at the Focusrite Clarett+ Octopre (not the 8pre) for this specific reason... what would you say about that unit? It has 8 preamps and also 8 line inputs that bypass the preamps
Hey Barry, as always, excellent video! If I may, one thing that Id like to throw out there when thinking about ADAT(lightpipe), is the sample rate conversion capability. In my setup, I am running an Avid MTRX Studio. All 16 of my analog ins are being used for two wa412s and one Audient ASP880. However, I have a second ASP880 that I am sending to my interface via ADAT. As long as I run at a 44.1k sample rate. I only need a single cable for all eight preamp channels. However, if I want to bump up to 48k. Then that would require a second cable, dropping me down to 4 preamp channels per cable, and chewing up my second ADAT IN on my interface. Another thing to consider when thinking about hardware expansion is how to sync them together. I wanted to get away with using a single ADAT cable. So I am syncing the preamp and interface via word clock and a BNC cable. Where I am limited is the ASP880 only has a word clock IN. So I cant daisy chain multiple 880s together. Anyway, probably a horrible explanation but just a few things that came to my mind while I watched your video. To anyone else that may be reading this, as Barry says, do your research when looking at expanding your workflow. Unfortunately, at least with my experience, with cheaper gear comes more limitations to consider. Hell of a job Barry! Keep it coming brother! Will
You can send 8 channels through a single ADAT connection at both 44.1 and 48, it’s once you go above 48, then it goes onto SMUX where you get 4 channels per ADAT.
Ferrofish stuff is like a swiss knife for audio, you can have 32 analog I/O, plus 32Ch Adat, plus 64 I/O Madi, plus 64 I/O Dante and they have CV prepared Outputs, so you can connect it to modular synth stuff. Just pair it with an RME HDSPe MADI FX or a Digiface Dante and you got yourself a brutal setup. The Quantum its also great and the drivers are quite good and integration with Studio One is perfect, i have one myself, you can daisy chain up to 4 of them via thunderbolt, that´s I/O for days.
Hello! Please clarify a doubt for me, I have a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen USB Audio Interface, this equipment offers 8 audio inputs, I need to arrive via ADAT connection in 24 input channels, connecting the Ferrofish Pulse 16 16x16 AD/DA Converter with ADAT, would work? Would the 18i20 accept the connection with Ferrofish via ADAT, thus being able to reach the 24 input channels?
Hello. If I buy the ferrofish pulse 16 and connect all my external harware to it, can I mix my songs using my hardware (digital way) without patchbay? I have the antelope discrete 8 pro synergy core audio interface. Thank you
If you were just doing hardware inserts, yes. If you’re wanting to be able to go from one hardware unit to another hardware unit and then back in, you’ll either need a patchbay, or if you use RME interfaces, totalmix gives you the ability to route all in’s/out’s in any combination you want to. Otherwise, you’d have to route multiple hardware inserts in your DAW. As an example create one hardware insert to send it out to an EQ, which will then come back into your DAW, then you create a secondary hardware insert, and route that out to a compressor as an example. Keep in mind you’re doing multiple Conversions, which is something I like to avoid.
@@BarryJohns thank you for your answer. I want to mix all my songs with analog gears in my Rack. I have avalon ad2044, SSL fusion and heritage audio ost-10 with 10 modules inside...i don't want to use plugins (software). It is possible to do this??? My audio interface have 2 in-out optical (adat)
Be aware even though the Apollo has two Adat ports it still tops out at 8 inputs. The extra ports are using higher sample rates. You can only add 8 inputs via Adat to an Apollo.
@@BarryJohnsyou can go up to 96k using both in ports, each one carrying 4 mono channels. If working at 48k only port one works carrying 8 mono channels.
@@PuRe_AdDicT Also, I have tried an Apollo 8 together with a Apollo x4. Only the ADAT from the Apollo 8 works. I have not been successful at running 16 ADAT out even with 2 Apollo units.
Barry, this is a great conversation. However, I need more outputs than inputs. I mostly track 1 or 2 tracks at a time, sometimes 4 but, mostly 1 at a time and build tracks (overdub). As my tracks build up to a finished song 12, 24, 32, 64, however many tracks I end up with, I mix them "in the box". My UR44 interface and Cubase work fine for this. 4x4. When it comes to mixing, I really want to use all the analog gear I accumulated back in the 80's and 90's, mainly my analog console. So, I need 32 outs from my interface. 4 "in" is fine. I am not tracking a band. What I am trying to achieve is what everyone refers to as a "hybrid" setup. Whatever. I only want to use my DAW as a "multi track tape machine". and send these multi tracks "OUT" to my console and back into my DAW as a stereo mix. I believe I have found a way to do this via a "STAGE BOX" a gigabit "SWITCH BOX" and a "DANTE" network using "VITUAL SOUND CARD" which is very affordable. Problem I am running into is the "stage boxes" are usually something like 16 in and 8 out. I don't need the "in's" I need the "outs"! I do not want to pay for preamps I don't need to get the outputs I do need, so what DANTE compatible device am I looking for? I want to take the "I" out of "I/O". Thank you for the time and effort you put into your channel. I believe you can help me with my Delima.
David, there are options like the Focusrite Red series that have what you are looking for, but it’s likely more practical buying something like the Presonus 4848 even though you don’t need the additional inputs.
Can you do a video on recording input level? Because I’m used to waiting for the VU meter to go into the red and back it off plus I have the input in the daw and my channel strip plus I compress on the way in so am I to use the old standard on everything except my DAW? Back when we first started recording you knew when you were clipping or making it too hot this -18db stuff is so vague so will you make a video of your complete chain from your guitar to your amp to your external preamp to your input levels on your interface and finally to the DAW and can you also compress on the way into the DAW? this would be very helpful plus hitting the red used to add a hot and in your face tone and now if you can hear it, it’s already good enough 😏 it’s so confusing
Yea, all of us from back on the day had a hard time adjusting to that part of digital recording. With analog, you want to hit the red a bit? With digital, you must avoid red at all cost. A safe recording level digitally is around -6db. You obviously still need to properly gain stage your analog chain before your interface the old way.
Whatever you choose, it always boils down to the drivers. Drivers' stability, solid/timely updates, and longevity to keep up with the time. For that the best are RME. Not the cheapest option out there by any means but it's the most robust solution out there.
One thing I'd like to try, if not buying a larger interface, was to sync two (either 2 interfaces and computers, one interface and a modular digital recorder...) via MIDI. I tried to do so with a keyboard (while I don't have proper MIDI modules) and to automate a reverb rack...
With RME I find it annoying you have to spend £1500-£1800 to get 4 ADAT ports unless you get the digiface usb - but then you have no mic preamps. I find the Ferrofish and Digiface a compelling option but I'd like at least one mic preamp which necessitates adding another box and also a midi box to get midi out of my DAW. Then I might run into sync / latency issues perhaps if mixing and maching ADAT expanders from different manufacturers might I? The Babyface Pro FS or UCX II would be perfect if i just had 1 more pair of ADAT ports. I suppose I could get the digiface and 2x audient 800 or 880 but really that is way more preamps than I need / want. Or a Ferrofish and an Audient 800 / UMC 1820. Is it best to stick with the same manufacturer when buying multiple adat expansions or even have the same expansions as your interface?
I went legacy since I run pc so there are no driver issues, and run 4 motu 828mkiis. They can daisy chain via firewire. This gives me 32/32 analog io, 8 mic pres, and 4 discreet headphone outs as well as the master outs on 3 of the units assignable for other things, and 8 channels of SPDIF to boot. at 150 average price per unit, you can't really beat this setup for the money as motu supports all firewire devices from 2003-now on windows 10. Will tide me over till I make the switch to a thunderbolt setup.
As I have a lot of Keyboards, I also like the "Dont need to turn on the computer" to play around.... However, There are specifics to my reasoning..... 2 Apogee FW Ensembles. Thats 8 x awesome Mic Pres , or 16 analog ins.. Depening.. also 4 Hi-z ins... etc.... 16 I/o of Adat & 48K. And it is... A Mackie d8b with apogee clock card (
All of these are nice, but they are also fairly pricey. What about more entry level options, like the Behringer ADA8200, and the Focusrite Octopre series? I know that you specified 16 analog inputs, but it does seem that you could probably buy two of the Behringer units for less than the price of some of these others!
I talk about that in my video about how to pick Mic Preamps. That’s different than the topic of this video. This was geared towards people who have outboard analog gear they want to incorporate into their workflow. Not add additional microphone Preamps.
I paired a MOTU 16A with my Avid Carbon. Works great and it gives me a total of 24 channels in 44 or 48. All my outboard gear is set up as to be used as inserts in Pro Tools via my patchbays in "normal" setting. When recording, I can patch with cables to create an all outboard vocal chain or I can use my hardware in much the same way one would use a plugin while mixing. I'm hoping Avid eventually comes out with expansion modules for Carbon. I could really use more than the 24 channels I have now. That extra AVB port must be for something coming, right?
I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on that cranborne hybrid style interface. I currently am using a scarlett interface with a 3 slot radial workhorse but recently have been considering expanding if I want to use more outboard gear. I have the camden mic pre, a fredenstein compressor and a SSL EQ
@@dylanhughes4548 I really like the unit-- the thump and cream options are great in terms of versatility. In my experience sometimes the unit has some noise at higher volumes (and depending on the source) but I use Izotope to isolate it and remove it in post. Other than that it's an amazing and affordable unit. But that is simply my opinion and for reference I only really work on my own music and have been mixing for a few years and have only owned the unit itself for about a year. Hope that helps
@@tytansoundlab Thank you very much for the input-- I didn't know what I wanted/ needed as I've been learning for the past couple years and trying to get my workflow to be the most efficient it can be and it doesn't make sense for me anymore to have multiple interfaces and unplug and replug in cables every session lol
@@ericjtomsky no problem man. It’s a simple way to expand and you can patch other gear into it like your extra 19 inch racks. It has a send and return insert option on each channel.
Adat connectivity the the way to go if your looking to be ergonomic without the console desk. But this is great. What’s your thoughts on the inputs of 500 cranborn series with it ?
@@BarryJohns thank you 🙏🏿 I was thinking of thing this as it’s becoming more of josh than is a great approach to adding that mojo to the chain. I have got a behringer producer mixer and looked for options to enhance some inputs on the mixes and found that it’s a the best bang for buck for ensuring quality audio path from the 500 series through and captured in on computer while recording then doing printing on post - I’m still learning this process. What’s your thoughts on the SSL Sigma or RME models ? I was looking into total summing or track separation using via analog to digital What are your thoughts ?
I’m looking at the Ferrofish Verto converters for ADAT to/from Dante. They are super inexpensive compared to the alternatives so I may just pull the trigger and see how it goes. I need to get my UAD bridged to Dante and I had been thinking of a Focusrite Red 8Line but the Ferrofish may do what I need. (I had other stuff I wanted the 8Line to do as well, but I think I don’t need it)
I have a Presonus 4848 and man that thing is freaking amazing and great to keep a clean and neat studio. I barely seen them in sale anymore tho 😢. Think it’s discontinued.
FerroFish is a part of the RME company and they have great tools but they lack direct connection to your machine. So they have Dante, MADI & ADAT but don't be fooled by the USB on the device it's not a USB interface the USB is for firmware updates only. The Ferrofish line are meant to be extensions for for already existing RME interface/converters like the RME digiface or a madiface or other brands. I know a ton of live audio guys who use ferrofish to extend their big festival rigs. The routing is very flexible and the costumer service is top notch, and since it is part of the RME team Ferrofish is solid as a rock. On a side note I use 2 Presonus Quantum 4848s with a console and the best part of the quantum line is the ability to daisy chain multiple quantum interfaces over thunderbolt and your computers operating system will see them as one interface without making an aggregate device or dropping sampling rates. You can have up to 4 quantum 4848s or any of the other quantum interfaces in the quantum line for up to 128 inputs and 128 outputs, for the price the Presonus Quantums are the best value interfaces on the market in my opinion.
Sure... the only drawback of Presonus Quantums is that you dont have a real standalone mixer , meaning you cant manage a sub woofer for instance. i personnaly have a sub that i use sometimes, not always, so i need an audio interface that allow me to filter the main speaker output when the sub is on and to pass from normal setup to sub setup. i cant on Presonus (gotta use a daw for that). that is such a shame because their Studio Live 32r would be perfect for me. also i dont understand cause most pro studios have subwoofer... I will have to go for RME for the total mix mixer
I have a modded silver face Apollo 16.... can I add another brand of interface? The way I read the manual, I can only add another Apollo. Maybe I'm wrong.
How’s that? You can add more apollos and have more I/O and DSP power but you can definitely add different brand interfaces as long as the digital connections are compatible. I had an old 003+ and the Adat didn’t have the smux compatibility so it didn’t work but I’ve tried other newer brands and they are compatible.
You can connect anything via Adat to it. Or you an add another thunderbolt Apollo, either way will work. Keep in mind you can only add 8 channels to Apollo’s via Adat.
@@brianvillage5 with the apollos it need the smux which is a little newer, my 003+ didn’t connect and I tried everything. I ended up reaching out to UA and they informed me about that. But you are right any ADAT should work.
I accept RME drivers are excellent and USB works perfectly even for MADI channels. However many pros are using apple which means using an adaptor. I've heard it said that their USB drivers has faster latency than Thunderbolt but who wants to be using adaptors for new gear?
I don’t use an adapter. Either way, lots of things require adapters. I had no choice but to use an Apple only Ethernet to thunderbolt adapter for my Avid Carbon. Don’t understand why it matters?
As someone whose entire studio is Dante based, the Ferrofish looks like a great piece of kit. Even though it doesn't spec out as well as Apogee, Lynx, or even REDNET....it does have actual TRS I/O (instead of DB25) and most importantly (to me) it is FANLESS! My personal pet peeve is that designers in audio feel like including a FAN is acceptable. I will gladly give up extra rack space for gear thermally designed to operate without active cooling.
@@BarryJohns Yessir! Focusrite have (IMO) made some smart decisions and produce great value-for-money products at various tiers in the audio production world. The RED line has flexible I/O, great sound, and multiple connectivity options. The REDNET units I have in my studio are fantastic sounding workhorses...heck, even the Scarlett range is perfectly useable. They even put out Dante cards for their existing ISA range. Smart smart smart.
I am still convinced a good digital mixer is the way to go. I have been down the interface and expansion route. Wordclock, ADAT sync, latency, and mix and match drivers are the problem. There is zero latency in a digital mixer, have motorized faders like a control surface, and plenty of I/O. Add up the cost of the interface, expansion, plus a control surface and try to do that for under 3k like a StudioLive32SC.
I have a Ferrofish Pulse16 on adat, so versatile, sounds great. Never looked back. So underrated in my humble opinion
Excellent piece! It takes all of my adat out from my 16a and converts to all my analog for hardware....yum!!
Yea?? I am thinking about getting it
@@tracyschnurr8685 Is there any latency involved? I only have an apollo x8p and have accumlated some outboard gear and need more I/O, but don't want to reconfigure my whole studio with a patchbay.
@@adee2569 well..best I can tell ya...yes and no. I run out of a motu 16. The adats out go into ferrofish and the ferrofish converts to analog outs so I can run those through lots of outboard eqs. (1/4 inch) Then...they go back into daw. The daw inserts set up should read the round-trip latency and adjust. The ferro itself isn't slowing it down so much as the entire round trip.
I was working in Belgium, and had a weekend off so I spent my time going to music stores. One of those stores introduced me to the craneborne rack. They had them in the store. Hey sold me on it along with there preamp.(I bought two) I got done with my project and packed it up in my suitcase. And it was so nerve-racking knowing what airlines do to luggage. It was the only thing I could think about. But all was good, and got it all running at home. I love it, I bought a couple of the breakout boxes. Not only did it sound and function great. It cleaned up a lot of cable's. I had so many rugs on the floor to cover my cables so people didn't trip and rip anything out. Now I don't need them. To me it's awesome.
I’d like a video on that Cranborne please, just going over why it’s kind of unique, workflow uses, benefits vs other lunchboxes etc - enjoy all the videos, keep em coming
I will get to it, it’s pretty amazing for what it does.
Top man 👍🏼
Congrats on 10k subs, Barry!!!
Thanks, it’s hard to wrap my head around it.
Barry, congrats on getting 10k subscribers!
Guess you were looking for 'daisy-chaining' at the end of the video...?
had multiple io adat expansions throughout the years, used to look all the adat IO expansions, and in the end i switched to AVB (motu) and never looked back... one ethernet cable and you can route however you want it, zero latency, control it with your pc, phone, tablet... or with other computers that are on the network, basically you can link up to 35 cards on one network (with additional AVB card routers, 5 interfaces per one router, 7 routers max)! and use which ever one on network you want... thats like, a building full of studios :) AVB is basically open source dante, so its way cheaper... you can add multiple cards and have all the IOs, or preamps that you want, and all in 192kHz, no channel limitations, (near) zero latency... and you can mix it on your phone or tablet as long as they are on the same network... if you have RME, it also has AVB and its own routing mixer... presonus also has AVB, and it probably has its own mixer, and it is maybe the best choice money-per-channel conversion you can get... ferrofish is also great... they are pretty much best choices... i wouldn`t switch back to adat now, since its channel/sample rate limitations, there are cards with 24 or more channels that you can connect to your card if it has AVB or dante
AVB is an amazing option, that opens up so many choices, that said, it's not available in all interfaces, so depending on what a person has, and frankly the level of converter, ADAT is more universal at this point. Let's hope that changes over time as AVB/Dante/MADI become more common in the home market.
Barry, I’ve never used the cranborne audio but it seems to get favorable reviews in the hard rock recording community. I’m gonna bring up the ugly B word and discuss an ADAT interface. I have an Audient ID14 MkII which I find to be an excellent project studio performer. I originally purchased the Audient ASP 800 as an 8 channel expansion for around US$800. It’s a solid unit and it has 2 very interesting coloring preamps, but I just needed six additional line level ins, and no preamps really.
Again please forgive me but I’m gonna mention the B word. I sent the Audient ASP 800 back after trying a Behringer ADA 8200 @ $150.
The ADA 8200 has solid timing and gives me up to eight additional line level or microphone level inputs. Very low self noise and it just works. I keep trying to find things wrong with it but it just works. Now again I don’t use the preamps, only the line levels, but it truly is a bang for the buck so far. Again I apologize for using the B word on your channel 😀 Thank you.
Behringer's been good for years now.
@@Andystuff800 I see you haven’t tried their new line of vintage USB microphones 😁. I think it’s hit or miss with Behringer.
@@rhread You're right, I haven't, because all USB mics are garbage. Their UMC line of interfaces is great.
At the end of last year i changed my setup.
I`ve bought an RME Madiface HDSPe, it runs perfectly fine via an express card to PCIe adapter. This Bundle i get for arround 80,- Euros at Ebay... than i pair it with a Ferrofisch Pulse 16 MX (The Version with Madi) witch i get for arround 850,- Euro (1year old). Via the Adat on the Pulse i can get another 16 I/O via any ADAT Converter... so i have great convertion (sonds definatly better then my old RME Multiface 2) and a freakin fast interface witch runs perfectly stable for really god bang for the buck. If i sometimes need more than 32 I/O than it is possible to cascade this Pulse units... but i think i will not need this in any time. :-) All the best from Germany
Great idea!
good to know that the Ferrofish sounds better than RME converters
@@kicksNCY keep in mind that the Multiface is an verry old interface...
thanks, saved my day. didn't know about the Ferrofish Pulse 16. ordering now :)
Waiting for your UAD spark Video!!! 😬
I use the Ferrofish Pulse 16 MX (MADI), but using ADAT at the moment. Hype is real, great piece of equipment, with the same parent company as RME, I run into my UA Apollo to give me 32 I/O. Warmth with UA conversion, ultimate clarity from the Cirrus AD/DA of the Ferrofish - both of best worlds flavor. IMO the Ferrofish has a better master clock (over word clock), made the Apollo tighten up. The Ferrofish up until recently has flown largely under the radar. Had mine over a year, and it’s the cornerstone of my studio.
What interfaces can you bypass the internal preamps completely?
Awesome video as always. The way I added ADAT to my UAD System is with the addition of my Focusrite Clarett 8PreX. Works great!
Just got a rme UCX ii, got it over the Motu 16a for better conversion, gonna add the ferrofish for more IO
I was looking at the Focusrite Clarett+ Octopre (not the 8pre) for this specific reason... what would you say about that unit? It has 8 preamps and also 8 line inputs that bypass the preamps
I have been hearing really good things about the 4848. Looks interesting
Hey Barry, as always, excellent video! If I may, one thing that Id like to throw out there when thinking about ADAT(lightpipe), is the sample rate conversion capability. In my setup, I am running an Avid MTRX Studio. All 16 of my analog ins are being used for two wa412s and one Audient ASP880. However, I have a second ASP880 that I am sending to my interface via ADAT. As long as I run at a 44.1k sample rate. I only need a single cable for all eight preamp channels. However, if I want to bump up to 48k. Then that would require a second cable, dropping me down to 4 preamp channels per cable, and chewing up my second ADAT IN on my interface. Another thing to consider when thinking about hardware expansion is how to sync them together. I wanted to get away with using a single ADAT cable. So I am syncing the preamp and interface via word clock and a BNC cable. Where I am limited is the ASP880 only has a word clock IN. So I cant daisy chain multiple 880s together. Anyway, probably a horrible explanation but just a few things that came to my mind while I watched your video. To anyone else that may be reading this, as Barry says, do your research when looking at expanding your workflow. Unfortunately, at least with my experience, with cheaper gear comes more limitations to consider. Hell of a job Barry! Keep it coming brother!
Will
You can send 8 channels through a single ADAT connection at both 44.1 and 48, it’s once you go above 48, then it goes onto SMUX where you get 4 channels per ADAT.
You can clock the Audient Via your light pipe connection.
@@BarryJohns absolutely right about the 48k good Sir! I must have looked at it wrong! (Because Im an idiot🤦🏻♂️and Im not scared to admit it😎)
Interesting. I am thinking of adding one of these or the a32 pro.
Ferrofish stuff is like a swiss knife for audio, you can have 32 analog I/O, plus 32Ch Adat, plus 64 I/O Madi, plus 64 I/O Dante and they have CV prepared Outputs, so you can connect it to modular synth stuff. Just pair it with an RME HDSPe MADI FX or a Digiface Dante and you got yourself a brutal setup.
The Quantum its also great and the drivers are quite good and integration with Studio One is perfect, i have one myself, you can daisy chain up to 4 of them via thunderbolt, that´s I/O for days.
Didnt presonus discontinue the 4848 already?
@@drunit8122 i don´t think so, but price gone up. They maybe even release an MKII, with thunderbolt 3/4 and AVB
@@pdmcrew80 Im pretty sure its been pulled from all major retailers.
If i understood correctly, I can hook up a ferrofish 16 to my id44mkII via adat and run 16 outs from my daw into my summing mixer?
So basically that Ferrofish would get me more i/o by simply joking up adat to back of my Apollo X8?
Hello! Please clarify a doubt for me, I have a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen USB Audio Interface, this equipment offers 8 audio inputs, I need to arrive via ADAT connection in 24 input channels, connecting the Ferrofish Pulse 16 16x16 AD/DA Converter with ADAT, would work? Would the 18i20 accept the connection with Ferrofish via ADAT, thus being able to reach the 24 input channels?
Hello. If I buy the ferrofish pulse 16 and connect all my external harware to it, can I mix my songs using my hardware (digital way) without patchbay? I have the antelope discrete 8 pro synergy core audio interface.
Thank you
If you were just doing hardware inserts, yes. If you’re wanting to be able to go from one hardware unit to another hardware unit and then back in, you’ll either need a patchbay, or if you use RME interfaces, totalmix gives you the ability to route all in’s/out’s in any combination you want to.
Otherwise, you’d have to route multiple hardware inserts in your DAW. As an example create one hardware insert to send it out to an EQ, which will then come back into your DAW, then you create a secondary hardware insert, and route that out to a compressor as an example. Keep in mind you’re doing multiple Conversions, which is something I like to avoid.
@@BarryJohns thank you for your answer. I want to mix all my songs with analog gears in my Rack. I have avalon ad2044, SSL fusion and heritage audio ost-10 with 10 modules inside...i don't want to use plugins (software). It is possible to do this??? My audio interface have 2 in-out optical (adat)
@@StudioFanThess yes
Be aware even though the Apollo has two Adat ports it still tops out at 8 inputs. The extra ports are using higher sample rates. You can only add 8 inputs via Adat to an Apollo.
Really, why would they limit that unnecessarily?
Truth. Dumb. Dealing with that currently…
@@BarryJohnsyou can go up to 96k using both in ports, each one carrying 4 mono channels. If working at 48k only port one works carrying 8 mono channels.
Thanks for commenting this important piece of information for Apollo users. Disappointing, but I'm glad you pointed it out :)
@@PuRe_AdDicT Also, I have tried an Apollo 8 together with a Apollo x4. Only the ADAT from the Apollo 8 works. I have not been successful at running 16 ADAT out even with 2 Apollo units.
Barry, this is a great conversation. However, I need more outputs than inputs.
I mostly track 1 or 2 tracks at a time, sometimes 4 but, mostly 1 at a time and build tracks (overdub).
As my tracks build up to a finished song 12, 24, 32, 64, however many tracks I end up with, I mix them "in the box". My UR44 interface and Cubase work fine for this. 4x4.
When it comes to mixing, I really want to use all the analog gear I accumulated back in the 80's and 90's, mainly my analog console.
So, I need 32 outs from my interface. 4 "in" is fine. I am not tracking a band.
What I am trying to achieve is what everyone refers to as a "hybrid" setup. Whatever.
I only want to use my DAW as a "multi track tape machine". and send these multi tracks "OUT" to my console and back into my DAW as a stereo mix.
I believe I have found a way to do this via a "STAGE BOX" a gigabit "SWITCH BOX" and a "DANTE" network using "VITUAL SOUND CARD" which is very affordable. Problem I am running into is the "stage boxes" are usually something like 16 in and 8 out. I don't need the "in's" I need the "outs"! I do not want to pay for preamps I don't need to get the outputs I do need, so what DANTE compatible device am I looking for?
I want to take the "I" out of "I/O".
Thank you for the time and effort you put into your channel.
I believe you can help me with my Delima.
David, there are options like the Focusrite Red series that have what you are looking for, but it’s likely more practical buying something like the Presonus 4848 even though you don’t need the additional inputs.
Can you do a video on recording input level? Because I’m used to waiting for the VU meter to go into the red and back it off plus I have the input in the daw and my channel strip plus I compress on the way in so am I to use the old standard on everything except my DAW? Back when we first started recording you knew when you were clipping or making it too hot this -18db stuff is so vague so will you make a video of your complete chain from your guitar to your amp to your external preamp to your input levels on your interface and finally to the DAW and can you also compress on the way into the DAW? this would be very helpful plus hitting the red used to add a hot and in your face tone and now if you can hear it, it’s already good enough 😏 it’s so confusing
Yea, all of us from back on the day had a hard time adjusting to that part of digital recording. With analog, you want to hit the red a bit? With digital, you must avoid red at all cost. A safe recording level digitally is around -6db. You obviously still need to properly gain stage your analog chain before your interface the old way.
Talking about I/O, thoughts on the Flock Audio Patchbays?
Whatever you choose, it always boils down to the drivers. Drivers' stability, solid/timely updates, and longevity to keep up with the time. For that the best are RME. Not the cheapest option out there by any means but it's the most robust solution out there.
But you can also pair rme hdspe or madi usb with something like ferrofish for an affordable high channel count option with rme drivers.
Yep. RME is amazingly stable. Sound is very VERY good.
aggregate was the word you were looking for. Also, on PC you can use ASIO4ALL to accomplish the same-ish thing
One thing I'd like to try, if not buying a larger interface, was to sync two (either 2 interfaces and computers, one interface and a modular digital recorder...) via MIDI. I tried to do so with a keyboard (while I don't have proper MIDI modules) and to automate a reverb rack...
With RME I find it annoying you have to spend £1500-£1800 to get 4 ADAT ports unless you get the digiface usb - but then you have no mic preamps. I find the Ferrofish and Digiface a compelling option but I'd like at least one mic preamp which necessitates adding another box and also a midi box to get midi out of my DAW. Then I might run into sync / latency issues perhaps if mixing and maching ADAT expanders from different manufacturers might I? The Babyface Pro FS or UCX II would be perfect if i just had 1 more pair of ADAT ports. I suppose I could get the digiface and 2x audient 800 or 880 but really that is way more preamps than I need / want. Or a Ferrofish and an Audient 800 / UMC 1820. Is it best to stick with the same manufacturer when buying multiple adat expansions or even have the same expansions as your interface?
Hello just started watching your channel I've got a focusrite 8 pre inerface looking to upgrade what would you upgrade to what rme did you use ?
I went legacy since I run pc so there are no driver issues, and run 4 motu 828mkiis. They can daisy chain via firewire. This gives me 32/32 analog io, 8 mic pres, and 4 discreet headphone outs as well as the master outs on 3 of the units assignable for other things, and 8 channels of SPDIF to boot.
at 150 average price per unit, you can't really beat this setup for the money as motu supports all firewire devices from 2003-now on windows 10.
Will tide me over till I make the switch to a thunderbolt setup.
As I have a lot of Keyboards, I also like the "Dont need to turn on the computer" to play around....
However, There are specifics to my reasoning.....
2 Apogee FW Ensembles.
Thats 8 x awesome Mic Pres , or 16 analog ins.. Depening.. also 4 Hi-z ins... etc.... 16 I/o of Adat & 48K.
And it is... A Mackie d8b with apogee clock card (
I own the Ferrofish Pulse 16...paid 700 euros for it used. Perfect with my rme ff802.
All of these are nice, but they are also fairly pricey. What about more entry level options, like the Behringer ADA8200, and the Focusrite Octopre series?
I know that you specified 16 analog inputs, but it does seem that you could probably buy two of the Behringer units for less than the price of some of these others!
I talk about that in my video about how to pick Mic Preamps. That’s different than the topic of this video. This was geared towards people who have outboard analog gear they want to incorporate into their workflow. Not add additional microphone Preamps.
@@BarryJohns ah, ok, got it! I guess I missed that part because I was so busy bean counting! :)
I paired a MOTU 16A with my Avid Carbon. Works great and it gives me a total of 24 channels in 44 or 48. All my outboard gear is set up as to be used as inserts in Pro Tools via my patchbays in "normal" setting. When recording, I can patch with cables to create an all outboard vocal chain or I can use my hardware in much the same way one would use a plugin while mixing. I'm hoping Avid eventually comes out with expansion modules for Carbon. I could really use more than the 24 channels I have now. That extra AVB port must be for something coming, right?
I am pretty confident they will come out with a similar box to the 16a to be used via AVB.
@@BarryJohns, that would make the most sense but I do wonder what's taking them so long.
@@JimCaputoMusic me too!
I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on that cranborne hybrid style interface. I currently am using a scarlett interface with a 3 slot radial workhorse but recently have been considering expanding if I want to use more outboard gear. I have the camden mic pre, a fredenstein compressor and a SSL EQ
How is the Mic pre? Thinking about getting the EC2 rackmount unit.
Cranbornes are very good. I have 2 Adat 500s.
@@dylanhughes4548 I really like the unit-- the thump and cream options are great in terms of versatility. In my experience sometimes the unit has some noise at higher volumes (and depending on the source) but I use Izotope to isolate it and remove it in post. Other than that it's an amazing and affordable unit. But that is simply my opinion and for reference I only really work on my own music and have been mixing for a few years and have only owned the unit itself for about a year. Hope that helps
@@tytansoundlab Thank you very much for the input-- I didn't know what I wanted/ needed as I've been learning for the past couple years and trying to get my workflow to be the most efficient it can be and it doesn't make sense for me anymore to have multiple interfaces and unplug and replug in cables every session lol
@@ericjtomsky no problem man. It’s a simple way to expand and you can patch other gear into it like your extra 19 inch racks. It has a send and return insert option on each channel.
Adat connectivity the the way to go if your looking to be ergonomic without the console desk. But this is great.
What’s your thoughts on the inputs of 500 cranborn series with it ?
Let’s say I have plans to buy one!
@@BarryJohns thank you 🙏🏿 I was thinking of thing this as it’s becoming more of josh than is a great approach to adding that mojo to the chain. I have got a behringer producer mixer and looked for options to enhance some inputs on the mixes and found that it’s a the best bang for buck for ensuring quality audio path from the 500 series through and captured in on computer while recording then doing printing on post - I’m still learning this process.
What’s your thoughts on the SSL Sigma or RME models ? I was looking into total summing or track separation using via analog to digital
What are your thoughts ?
@@BarryJohns those Adat 500s are solid and the clock sound fantastic. I have 2 of them.
I’m looking at the Ferrofish Verto converters for ADAT to/from Dante. They are super inexpensive compared to the alternatives so I may just pull the trigger and see how it goes. I need to get my UAD bridged to Dante and I had been thinking of a Focusrite Red 8Line but the Ferrofish may do what I need.
(I had other stuff I wanted the 8Line to do as well, but I think I don’t need it)
I have a Presonus 4848 and man that thing is freaking amazing and great to keep a clean and neat studio. I barely seen them in sale anymore tho 😢. Think it’s discontinued.
That’s what I’ve heard too, strange they would discontinue, it was such an incredible value. Let’s hope they come out with a Gen2.
@@BarryJohns That is actually the Unit I want but might go with the Ferrofish.. Man that Quantum 4848 sounds gorgeous
Thank you..
FerroFish is a part of the RME company and they have great tools but they lack direct connection to your machine. So they have Dante, MADI & ADAT but don't be fooled by the USB on the device it's not a USB interface the USB is for firmware updates only. The Ferrofish line are meant to be extensions for for already existing RME interface/converters like the RME digiface or a madiface or other brands. I know a ton of live audio guys who use ferrofish to extend their big festival rigs. The routing is very flexible and the costumer service is top notch, and since it is part of the RME team Ferrofish is solid as a rock. On a side note I use 2 Presonus Quantum 4848s with a console and the best part of the quantum line is the ability to daisy chain multiple quantum interfaces over thunderbolt and your computers operating system will see them as one interface without making an aggregate device or dropping sampling rates. You can have up to 4 quantum 4848s or any of the other quantum interfaces in the quantum line for up to 128 inputs and 128 outputs, for the price the Presonus Quantums are the best value interfaces on the market in my opinion.
Sure... the only drawback of Presonus Quantums is that you dont have a real standalone mixer , meaning you cant manage a sub woofer for instance. i personnaly have a sub that i use sometimes, not always, so i need an audio interface that allow me to filter the main speaker output when the sub is on and to pass from normal setup to sub setup. i cant on Presonus (gotta use a daw for that). that is such a shame because their Studio Live 32r would be perfect for me. also i dont understand cause most pro studios have subwoofer... I will have to go for RME for the total mix mixer
I will buy one of those 48/48 from you 😊 Let us know
@@LosFicosMusic Not for sale, I use them daily with my console. But you can find them on Reverb and other places where you can find used gear.
I have a modded silver face Apollo 16.... can I add another brand of interface? The way I read the manual, I can only add another Apollo. Maybe I'm wrong.
How’s that? You can add more apollos and have more I/O and DSP power but you can definitely add different brand interfaces as long as the digital connections are compatible. I had an old 003+ and the Adat didn’t have the smux compatibility so it didn’t work but I’ve tried other newer brands and they are compatible.
You can connect anything via Adat to it. Or you an add another thunderbolt Apollo, either way will work. Keep in mind you can only add 8 channels to Apollo’s via Adat.
@@brianvillage5 with the apollos it need the smux which is a little newer, my 003+ didn’t connect and I tried everything. I ended up reaching out to UA and they informed me about that. But you are right any ADAT should work.
aurora 16
I accept RME drivers are excellent and USB works perfectly even for MADI channels. However many pros are using apple which means using an adaptor. I've heard it said that their USB drivers has faster latency than Thunderbolt but who wants to be using adaptors for new gear?
I don’t use an adapter. Either way, lots of things require adapters. I had no choice but to use an Apple only Ethernet to thunderbolt adapter for my Avid Carbon. Don’t understand why it matters?
As someone whose entire studio is Dante based, the Ferrofish looks like a great piece of kit. Even though it doesn't spec out as well as Apogee, Lynx, or even REDNET....it does have actual TRS I/O (instead of DB25) and most importantly (to me) it is FANLESS! My personal pet peeve is that designers in audio feel like including a FAN is acceptable. I will gladly give up extra rack space for gear thermally designed to operate without active cooling.
The Red 16line is an amazing box!
@@BarryJohns Yessir! Focusrite have (IMO) made some smart decisions and produce great value-for-money products at various tiers in the audio production world. The RED line has flexible I/O, great sound, and multiple connectivity options. The REDNET units I have in my studio are fantastic sounding workhorses...heck, even the Scarlett range is perfectly useable. They even put out Dante cards for their existing ISA range. Smart smart smart.
Blues your color! :)
I have the 4848.
How do you like it?
Presonus used to make some good stuff, but they’ve moved away from that and went the more affordable route.
Aggregate is the word you lost when brain farting
Yes!
Oh yeah... an "Aggregated" Brain Shart. ... ;)
i think u trying to say aggrigated
32 i/0 Apogee
Aggregate setup
That can be more expensive depending on the interface. No need to buy a whole new interface if you only need the IO. Plus it can be spotty.
Aggregate setups are unreliable and use up extra cpu. Adat or even better cascading through thunderbolt are better options.
I am still convinced a good digital mixer is the way to go. I have been down the interface and expansion route. Wordclock, ADAT sync, latency, and mix and match drivers are the problem. There is zero latency in a digital mixer, have motorized faders like a control surface, and plenty of I/O. Add up the cost of the interface, expansion, plus a control surface and try to do that for under 3k like a StudioLive32SC.
1st.
Hey Barry!!!