shoutout to Neaces editor, I love how you're linking the gameplay and the VOD review right after it happens in the live game. Love this new technique, keep it up
By him being a GM as any server is a crazy achievement in itself. The difference between a master and a Gm is pretty huge and from a regular gm to a pro player is an even bigger gap. Starcraft is the one game with the highest skill ceiling. It’s crazy that sc players went to league because there was more money in it and Starcraft in Korea was slowly dying out. I will always have respect for high ranked Starcraft players though, being good in that game requires a lot more skill than people think .
The biggest difference is time to process in all honestly. In starcraft, you never have time to think, there is always something to do. 30 mins in and you have to constantly be microing your army while simultaneously taking extra bases, scouting, making units, etc. In league you have so much time to process information. After deaths you can very calmly take a look at the map and decide how you will path for objectives. You can look at the minimap pretty easily in the early game because its so slow, you just go up and kill a minion every few seconds, while in starcraft its actually hard to check the minimap due to the fast pace going on around you. Edit: of course league early game isnt always so passive, but most lanes you can have 20-30 seconds of full downtime for every 5 seconds of action that needs your attention.
Not really. Gold Zerg here, and got GM multiple times with stealth Banshee rushes. I can cheese my way there, but no way hold it with anything macro related 😂
I was a long time starcraft player before league, so micro, a click, stutter stepping, etc came naturally to me, as well as the ping system. I naturally gravitated to Jinx because playing her was kinda like controlling marines. All of that let me start out at a silver level instead of a bronze level though.
I mean... This is kind of an ignorant statement. He plays StarCraft at a high level so he has the ability to move his fingers fast and has the ability to get combos down, etc. (Obviously there's more to it). This guy has the ability to have mechanics but expecting him to play azir, draven, or riven right off the bat just because "he has mechanics" is pretty ignorant
Coming from zerg gm, terrans by far the hardest race because of macro its extremely hard for terran to keep up production late versus the other units. Zerg is about timing and getting level 2 first like Neace coaches try to get so far ahead they get swarmed and protoss is the most micro intensive due to the strength of their units abilities.
I like the format of this coaching where you weave the post-game tips into the middle of the game. The other way, not going to lie, sometimes i didn't watch the tips at the end. I know, bad me, I suck; but just saying for honesty that I think this format works better and I watched it all the way through.
Dude, you're such a good coach. I don't know much about League, but I coach rock climbing, ski racing, and freeride skiing, and you have such good soft skills. Lots of coaches don't understand how people learn and will distress the people they're trying to teach. You did such a great job encouraging him while also pointing out things he can do to improve, while recognizing that they are difficult improvements to make.
Hi Neace. I love when you comment on the thought process. Issuing commands like "go bot" or "take one more wave" helps client win the game but it's the insight behind it that's really valuable.
I was high diamond/low master in 8 months of focused play and study in starcraft. And it's taken me almost a year just to get to Gold IV/Gold III as Garen/Trynd Top lane. Honestly, being good at starcraft doesn't mean shit in regards to knowing how well you'll play league of legends. 1) League is a team game, so your team can still just int out of their brains and you're still fucked even if and when you do "everything" correctly. 2) There's a steep learning curve in game knowledge: A) Champions and their abilities B) Your champ pools matchups C) How to play your lane specifically (I.E. where to ward, where to go when you've pushed the wave under, what jungle camps you can and can't take in time for the wave to rebound.) D) Wave management E) Understanding when and when not to take trades F) Objectives and knowing when the right time is to take them along with knowing their timings (this includes scuttle) G) Actually tracking the enemy jungler So, this whole mentality that just because you're good at starcraft you're good at league is a complete falsehood and people should really stop the comparison, it's ridiculous. It's literally comparing apples to oranges. Honestly, shame on the people who have played both games and know better and then still carry on this tune about how high ranked starcraft players can play league well. It's misleading and just plainly not true.
It was mainly in the early days of league like around season 2-3. The experienced dota players jumped in and dumpstered the also new high influx of players who had no moba experience. My friend got diamond 1 in league in 1 season around that time. He still thinks he’s that good but haven’t played since. I remember playing with him and didn’t know a damn thing. I didn’t know stutter stepping, attack cancel, even basic shit like cheesing in a bush, or getting picks. I didn’t keep track of the map and he would always know when to back off and I thought he was amazing, and now it’s just basic tracking of where mid and jg are by looking at the map. I never looked at the map. Like really basic shit you think are common sense wasn’t to me, because I came from playing fighting games. League felt slow but I knew zero fundamentals. I ran around aimlessly and managed gold 1 somehow on udyr at the time. Long story short all the dumbass elitist Dota players hopped on when league was booming with new players who didn’t know shit. Saying league was easy and dumbed down or whatnot. I followed some of these diamond 1 players from season 3 and now they’re gold/plat.
@@duc2133 well, since I didn't play league 10 years ago, I wouldn't know anything about that. My post is specifically speaking to more recent seasons and experience that I've had.
@@duc2133 Also, all MOBAs lean toward being knowledge games after some basic macro / micro understanding. Knowing 29 champions (S1) vs. 157 champions (S11) is a huge difference.
I was GM in SC2 and never got Plat in LoL xD Kiting is easy but the game is still fundamentaly different. Starcraft is about being able to do multiple different things as fast as you can while in LoL you mostly focus on one unit/champion^^
This may be the best Neace vid I've ever seen. The format, the information, the breakdowns of each part. Its incredible we have this resource available for free.
Haven’t watched the whole video yet I’m at 4:48 but I gotta say this: I love how he said micro will be his problem but I already tell he has crazy good accuracy in his clicks (clicks very close to character but with full control) and his movement is good too. Like this is a good fundamental for good micro
Honestly, I would have made the same mistake at 17:58--not because I'd want to recall in that bush, but rather because of the minions. When I'm low on HP after a dive, I instinctively want to drop minion aggro ASAP, but sometimes I end up walking into even more danger, like this guy did there.
Anyone else in a same boat as this guy, got up to master in SC2 during HOTS and LOTV. But all of the rapid changes on macro of the game never just came to me like it did in Starcraft.
I was a master in sc2 before league. My mechanics held me back like you wouldn't believe. League is all about timing. Sc2 is all about efficient execution. I still have issues with pressing keys to fast doing combos and some skill not going off 8 years later. My map awareness was top tier on install and my game sense makes me think I might be psychic ;-)
I have a friend who’s a Zerg grandmaster player but is bronze beyond belief in league. It’s pretty funny, even though his apm is crazy high he has a lot of trouble with cs-ing and knowing how to fight properly in team fights.
I really liked this video because you go more in depth than usual. It often feels like you are just remote controlling the players without explaining why. This was very very helpful. Thanks for your hard work.
17:16 him moving in brush is a good move as well you can waste your enemy team ward to check if you're there or make him fallback since he's expecting you trade on him if he walks up but the truth is you recalled and is already on your way back to lane.
You could also play into what Neace said about fake roaming, where you walk downwards into the river fog, making the enemy mid laner back away, but instead of actually roaming, you hide in the top lane bush. That way, you can not only trick the enemy mid laner into giving some space to yours, but you can also trick the enemy top laner into thinking you’re roaming, which may prompt them to shove the lane, allowing for an easy ambush trade or kill.
Playing RTS games before playing any moba, indeed helps with mechanics. As someone who played the original Broodwar and Red Alert 2, and used to do money matches for those games, the experience definitely helped me when I started getting into the original dota and then League.
18:16 I think the better way to teach this is asking him what path does he think is the safest and why? Then you show him how to look for the safest route. Tell him that after a dive calculate if you can go back the same way you go in then check the minimap if it's there's a global ult. Lastly tell him the significance of vision after a dive, tell him to expect enemies responding after a dive that's why going back to the place you have vision is the safest place unless you see that an enemy is coming from there. 24:10 I completely disagree here, even though playing against champ will help you know how to face them in the future using the champ will have better results, if you personally use champion you will know its limits and counters, instead of just knowing what they can do, if you personally use them you can visualize in your head what could possibly happen . 28:34 the answer here is if you could take a plate and you know the enemy is coming go for the tower, if not then kill the minions first because they will slow down and damage your minions. 30:47 as a veteran I always look at the minimap, I saw the yellow hourglass which means rh is seconds from reviving, I will go there since there's no missing enemy, I will start hitting herald if the situation in the midlane doesn't look like a fight is starting,I won't go in the botlane because it's too far and I already saw a Pantheon there. 34:57 I would probably farm near the bush there, if I'm in that bush I would be in a flexible position, its to closer to my tower, I'm possibly invisible and I could clear the minions or ambush if I want.
Seemed like a cool dude! He had a bit of an easy game with those teammates but there was some education about how to dive and vision with backing. Also hopefully he learned a bit about exercising his leads. As a Garen you can 1v3 if they’re low like that, as a fellow Silver it feels like you’re about to feed so I understand the hesitation.
So many people in Silver like to ARAM mid/late game. To me League is kind of like Basketball with positioning. You don’t see all the players huddle up on one point of the court, they create pressure and rotate to get to the hoop (Nexus in this context)
@@OrenjiMochi I've always felt league should try a 6v6 mode, but the extra players are the team coach/commander with a top down grid assigning macro plays and try to get people who never listen to pay attention, be like trying to herd cats. Kinda like playing squad.
@@SilkySnow_ I try to herd em with my pings lol. Like "Let's take baron after we wiped the team instead of just one tower" or "Hey we're behind so lets give them a dragon instead while we do baron or farm, instead of dying at dragon pit and losing both"
@@OrenjiMochi Yeah that's that juicy salt generation right there, or when you wipe the enemy team, and they go back to farm your own jungle and back instead of taking their jungle and taking towers. A constant game of this feels like winning your chess piece battle, but your pieces don't go forward.
I'm the same hahahah - I am high master SC2 Wings, HOTS's and Legacy.... started playing LoL last year and I'm hardstuck Plat 2 - I think the difficulty for SC2 players is that they are so used to having ABSOLUTE control over the game, in the sense that is my APM is 300 - 400 (Not that I can do that any more, BOOMER) there is very little you can't control whereas in League there are a lot more variables (Other Players) which can cause frustration and based on the ELO and other players different decisions are optimal.
Huh. The penny finally dropped. At around 16:30 when Neace explains the minion pathing and advises us to "walk the crease"... This is the situation that results in a laner getting roamed and ganked on when their teammate hasn't even sent out an enemy missing ping yet; we've all been there. It's because they pushed in, walked straight back and then roamed, never giving the illusion that they might go roam. The laner doesn't realize the enemy laner is gone until they hear the anguished cries of their teammate...
This video was very good content. I might have heard about 'the crease' before but seeing it with the gig if war really made me think about it. And the dive ' who can kill me now exercise' also really good
How to tell he is a SC player. He has his minimap on the bottom left. *SIDE NOTE* You can easily get to masters in SC with 130 APM. Just have builds that can apply a bit of pressure so you know at (X) time he should have (Y) amount. Some builds that are friendly that can apply pressure but can also use it for defense too. You'll naturally transition into bigger armies that are more sophisticated but these were my "GO-TO" builds that got me out of Diamond. 2 or 3 gate blink stalker + robo 2-1-1 16 marines + stim + 2 medivacs Rushing +1 carapace for your Zerglings Naturally these builds alone wont end the game unless you become very good at it and your opponent has way worse control than you but the builds are naturally more on the safe side while you can still apply pressure without doing a coin-flip "ALL-IN". These builds all challenges your opponent "CAN YOU MICRO AND MACRO AT THE SAME TIME"?
thank you for the insights, a lot of this I've also been doing and wondering about ends up being good ELO just the fact that you only need 1-2 champs per role makes sense! master a few know the rest to get use to all the macro things you cant ever consciously know about.
League is clicking is weird as hell, It's easiy to mis champs you think you're clicking on. clicking on a wall (even the side on the side closest to where you are) somehow causes your champ to path differently -- like going back and around to the other side of the wall..
Assessing for the potential enemy champs popping out and killing you should be happening as often as someone checks to make sure they aren't supply blocked.
@@fiction1992 in RTS games like Starcraft, you've got a maximum number of units you can have in your army at any given point, called supply. The maximum number is based on how many supply buildings you have, and you rhythmically increase it over the course of the game. To be supply blocked means that you fucked up your macro somewhere by not building additional supply buildings. For me, it happened a lot after expanding and adding additional unit-producing buildings but not assigning additional workers to build supply buildings to match my increased income. Also happened a lot after big fights where I'd need to spend most of my money to replace my army and I didn't "switch back" to macro mode. Either way, it's just a number in the top-right corner that you'd constantly check in game to make sure you can still produce units. You'd check it almost as often as the minimap
I was thinking maybe one way to explain the situation with backing out after making a dive is the 'follow the light at the end of the tunnel' AKA don't walk into any random bushes or the enemy jungle, just walk the line right back to where you've got full vision lol
Being a master in starcraft I can say that the difference between master and grandmaster is the same as the difference between challenger and gold, honestly this guy is insane for hitting grandmaster on 3 different accounts.
Walking out of lane for the false roam reminds me of a thing incontrol said on one of his streams years ago, playing as protoss into zerg. He kept doing these fake pushes. Just waln his army out, kill some creep, walk back. He said that it would cost the zerg resources to build an army to counter the push. Except he didn't push, he'd expand. And not relieving the cap by killing those units really hurt zerg in the long run, and let incontrol win. Same concept there, really. The mid laner is gaining something by being pushed up like that, and loses something by having to pull back and protect themselves. Until they get complacent and you actually roam and kill them.
When i first started playing whenever people killed me I used to type to them in all chat saying how it was super dope what they did and they would always flame me haha I was in 8th grade then..
There have always been a war between different games. Dota vs LoL, CoD vs BF, CS vs Valorant etc etc. But every gamer agrees to give StarCraft players credit 🙏
I was surprised by his camera control, being a GM SCII player… I suppose he must be really good with camera locations or perhaps he uses middle click more. Either that or camera movement doesn’t translate well when he has so much new stuff to think about and/or he doesn’t know what exactly he should be looking at anyways.
More than anything now in Top lane when I get a little bit of breathing room I figure out where the jungler is. Most of the time i throw a Control ward on their buff
I didnt watch the whole video and this might have come up already, but I think that he should definitely press s when farming to cancel the movement commands. He wouldve gotten a lot more cs.
lol id love seeing this dude use zyra hed be enjoying those spines since those things are like spine crawlers or he can use yorick for those mistcrawlers like how stukov uses infected terrans
when you're editing these videos you should raise the volume (or move it down) when the person your coaching speaks to make the volume more consistent throughout
The first thing I did was to try every champion. Partly to learn what they did and what to watch out for but also to find "my champs" Then I narrowed it down to roughly 2-3 champs in each role so that I wouldn't have to fight people for position, I would be atleast serviceable in every role. This works excellent in low elo but once you reach a bit higher you kinda have to spend enough time perfecting a few select champs to keep up. Luckily for me this happened roughly at the same time as they made preset positions while matching. 🤣
He says he didn't have to do anything. But him keeping irelia in lane and honest allowed his team a fair 4v4 He didn't int and he kept pantheon interested top a few times. Sometimes all u gotta do is play well enough to get carried
I would love to get into your bootcamp, but I am at school in programming. When I finish school I will be looking for your enxt bootcamp and free myself just for that.
At around 9:55 , u didnt tell him to walk up into tower range to get the gold from the plate, he legit lost plate money for no reason when he had 3 waves stacked and coulda either hit tower or just get in range to get the plate, thats pretty huge tbh
![Why Did This Diamond Player Drop Down To Gold? [Challenger Coaching Top]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/598jfhwxats/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why Did This Diamond Player Drop Down To Gold? [Challenger Coaching Top]](/img/tr.png)
![It's Not Everyday I Get A Client As Promising As This [Challenger Coaching Jungle]](/img/n.gif)
Idea: Neace, make a video of him coaching you in Starcraft.
great idea, +1
Agreeee
this is it chief.
Yeah but he is not a coacher, we don't know if he can explain the concepts clearly and shit
YES
shoutout to Neaces editor, I love how you're linking the gameplay and the VOD review right after it happens in the live game. Love this new technique, keep it up
This is awesome. Please keep it up.
This is fantastic, hope this stays
great work indeed
I was tripping at 1st. Like wtf is going on here? How he doing this? 😆
By him being a GM as any server is a crazy achievement in itself. The difference between a master and a Gm is pretty huge and from a regular gm to a pro player is an even bigger gap. Starcraft is the one game with the highest skill ceiling. It’s crazy that sc players went to league because there was more money in it and Starcraft in Korea was slowly dying out. I will always have respect for high ranked Starcraft players though, being good in that game requires a lot more skill than people think .
The biggest difference is time to process in all honestly. In starcraft, you never have time to think, there is always something to do. 30 mins in and you have to constantly be microing your army while simultaneously taking extra bases, scouting, making units, etc. In league you have so much time to process information. After deaths you can very calmly take a look at the map and decide how you will path for objectives. You can look at the minimap pretty easily in the early game because its so slow, you just go up and kill a minion every few seconds, while in starcraft its actually hard to check the minimap due to the fast pace going on around you.
Edit: of course league early game isnt always so passive, but most lanes you can have 20-30 seconds of full downtime for every 5 seconds of action that needs your attention.
comparing apples to icecream here m8
Used to be, game is dead now rank1 master in wings
@@supersquare04 the biggest difference is the amount of luck or non controllables. league too many factors that are 50/50 which just wreck your wr%
Not really. Gold Zerg here, and got GM multiple times with stealth Banshee rushes. I can cheese my way there, but no way hold it with anything macro related 😂
I was a long time starcraft player before league, so micro, a click, stutter stepping, etc came naturally to me, as well as the ping system. I naturally gravitated to Jinx because playing her was kinda like controlling marines. All of that let me start out at a silver level instead of a bronze level though.
Must be why Jinx is my favorite adc. Masters level sc2 player lol
She is a marine alright :)
wats stutter stepping
@@jamesre51 but caitlyn/kogmaw/vayne are best adcs
@@stanimirborov3765 attack and move in between the time it takes to" reload"
Starcraft player, will have good mechanics and micro, Neace "I don't expect mechanics to be a problem"...let's play Garen. That just made me lol.
I mean... This is kind of an ignorant statement. He plays StarCraft at a high level so he has the ability to move his fingers fast and has the ability to get combos down, etc. (Obviously there's more to it). This guy has the ability to have mechanics but expecting him to play azir, draven, or riven right off the bat just because "he has mechanics" is pretty ignorant
@@iamt4nk640 yeah the mechanics are useless if you don’t even know what your suppose to do
It’s all about application of said mechanics.
@@hashtagjay4266 There are no mechanics to transfer from another game
Coming from zerg gm, terrans by far the hardest race because of macro its extremely hard for terran to keep up production late versus the other units. Zerg is about timing and getting level 2 first like Neace coaches try to get so far ahead they get swarmed and protoss is the most micro intensive due to the strength of their units abilities.
Loving the Vod review cuts in between the live coaching. Super helpful!
Agreed, really love this new format
Yes! Was thinking the same. It‘s very helpful to understand the situations at the time happening.
yes, i also like that
10/10 agree!
I like the format of this coaching where you weave the post-game tips into the middle of the game. The other way, not going to lie, sometimes i didn't watch the tips at the end. I know, bad me, I suck; but just saying for honesty that I think this format works better and I watched it all the way through.
When I watch I do go all the way through but I still agree with ya. Much better
This was a real masterclass because your student wanted to understand the thinking behind each decision which was expertly explained.
the editor just becomes more cracked with each video lol. This guy looks like he'll become better tho 100%
Dude, you're such a good coach. I don't know much about League, but I coach rock climbing, ski racing, and freeride skiing, and you have such good soft skills. Lots of coaches don't understand how people learn and will distress the people they're trying to teach. You did such a great job encouraging him while also pointing out things he can do to improve, while recognizing that they are difficult improvements to make.
Hi Neace. I love when you comment on the thought process. Issuing commands like "go bot" or "take one more wave" helps client win the game but it's the insight behind it that's really valuable.
I was high diamond/low master in 8 months of focused play and study in starcraft. And it's taken me almost a year just to get to Gold IV/Gold III as Garen/Trynd Top lane. Honestly, being good at starcraft doesn't mean shit in regards to knowing how well you'll play league of legends.
1) League is a team game, so your team can still just int out of their brains and you're still fucked even if and when you do "everything" correctly.
2) There's a steep learning curve in game knowledge:
A) Champions and their abilities
B) Your champ pools matchups
C) How to play your lane specifically (I.E. where to ward, where to go when you've pushed the wave under, what jungle camps you can and can't take in time for the wave to rebound.)
D) Wave management
E) Understanding when and when not to take trades
F) Objectives and knowing when the right time is to take them along with knowing their timings (this includes scuttle)
G) Actually tracking the enemy jungler
So, this whole mentality that just because you're good at starcraft you're good at league is a complete falsehood and people should really stop the comparison, it's ridiculous. It's literally comparing apples to oranges.
Honestly, shame on the people who have played both games and know better and then still carry on this tune about how high ranked starcraft players can play league well. It's misleading and just plainly not true.
It was mainly in the early days of league like around season 2-3. The experienced dota players jumped in and dumpstered the also new high influx of players who had no moba experience. My friend got diamond 1 in league in 1 season around that time. He still thinks he’s that good but haven’t played since. I remember playing with him and didn’t know a damn thing. I didn’t know stutter stepping, attack cancel, even basic shit like cheesing in a bush, or getting picks. I didn’t keep track of the map and he would always know when to back off and I thought he was amazing, and now it’s just basic tracking of where mid and jg are by looking at the map. I never looked at the map. Like really basic shit you think are common sense wasn’t to me, because I came from playing fighting games. League felt slow but I knew zero fundamentals. I ran around aimlessly and managed gold 1 somehow on udyr at the time. Long story short all the dumbass elitist Dota players hopped on when league was booming with new players who didn’t know shit. Saying league was easy and dumbed down or whatnot. I followed some of these diamond 1 players from season 3 and now they’re gold/plat.
@@duc2133 well, since I didn't play league 10 years ago, I wouldn't know anything about that. My post is specifically speaking to more recent seasons and experience that I've had.
@@duc2133 Also, all MOBAs lean toward being knowledge games after some basic macro / micro understanding. Knowing 29 champions (S1) vs. 157 champions (S11) is a huge difference.
Such a good coaching , the synergie between you two is insane!
I was GM in SC2 and never got Plat in LoL xD Kiting is easy but the game is still fundamentaly different. Starcraft is about being able to do multiple different things as fast as you can while in LoL you mostly focus on one unit/champion^^
I really loved this new style where the editor inserts the clip from after the game analysis
This may be the best Neace vid I've ever seen. The format, the information, the breakdowns of each part. Its incredible we have this resource available for free.
Haven’t watched the whole video yet I’m at 4:48 but I gotta say this: I love how he said micro will be his problem but I already tell he has crazy good accuracy in his clicks (clicks very close to character but with full control) and his movement is good too. Like this is a good fundamental for good micro
Honestly, I would have made the same mistake at 17:58--not because I'd want to recall in that bush, but rather because of the minions. When I'm low on HP after a dive, I instinctively want to drop minion aggro ASAP, but sometimes I end up walking into even more danger, like this guy did there.
Nice edits with the review right after the play :D Really makes the lesson easier to understand and its nice to watch too.
Anyone else in a same boat as this guy, got up to master in SC2 during HOTS and LOTV. But all of the rapid changes on macro of the game never just came to me like it did in Starcraft.
Editing to the VOD is goated, and helps build on the useful concepts right away. Makes a super cool experience for someone trying to learn the game.
I was a master in sc2 before league. My mechanics held me back like you wouldn't believe. League is all about timing. Sc2 is all about efficient execution. I still have issues with pressing keys to fast doing combos and some skill not going off 8 years later. My map awareness was top tier on install and my game sense makes me think I might be psychic ;-)
i wanna be a psychic
I have a friend who’s a Zerg grandmaster player but is bronze beyond belief in league. It’s pretty funny, even though his apm is crazy high he has a lot of trouble with cs-ing and knowing how to fight properly in team fights.
I really liked this video because you go more in depth than usual. It often feels like you are just remote controlling the players without explaining why. This was very very helpful. Thanks for your hard work.
so much free info, love it
24:04 - 40 year old GM Starcraft player learning League of legends goes "My Senpai"
Me: A man of culture, Indeed.
you are not slow at 40 if you are afraid kids, you can be pro as fuck at 40 as long as you are motivated and still play a lot
17:16 him moving in brush is a good move as well you can waste your enemy team ward to check if you're there or make him fallback since he's expecting you trade on him if he walks up but the truth is you recalled and is already on your way back to lane.
You could also play into what Neace said about fake roaming, where you walk downwards into the river fog, making the enemy mid laner back away, but instead of actually roaming, you hide in the top lane bush. That way, you can not only trick the enemy mid laner into giving some space to yours, but you can also trick the enemy top laner into thinking you’re roaming, which may prompt them to shove the lane, allowing for an easy ambush trade or kill.
@@creaketh doesnt work in low elo you can be in the lane with the enemy mid laner and they will still think you are top
Irelia in a nutshell. He completely locked her out of farm for the first 8 minutes of this game.
And they both had 49 farm.
I love you your are putting the review right after the play happens. Great stuff
I learned a lot watching this coaching session, Neace! Thanks!
Playing RTS games before playing any moba, indeed helps with mechanics. As someone who played the original Broodwar and Red Alert 2, and used to do money matches for those games, the experience definitely helped me when I started getting into the original dota and then League.
18:16 I think the better way to teach this is asking him what path does he think is the safest and why? Then you show him how to look for the safest route. Tell him that after a dive calculate if you can go back the same way you go in then check the minimap if it's there's a global ult. Lastly tell him the significance of vision after a dive, tell him to expect enemies responding after a dive that's why going back to the place you have vision is the safest place unless you see that an enemy is coming from there.
24:10 I completely disagree here, even though playing against champ will help you know how to face them in the future using the champ will have better results, if you personally use champion you will know its limits and counters, instead of just knowing what they can do, if you personally use them you can visualize in your head what could possibly happen .
28:34 the answer here is if you could take a plate and you know the enemy is coming go for the tower, if not then kill the minions first because they will slow down and damage your minions.
30:47 as a veteran I always look at the minimap, I saw the yellow hourglass which means rh is seconds from reviving, I will go there since there's no missing enemy, I will start hitting herald if the situation in the midlane doesn't look like a fight is starting,I won't go in the botlane because it's too far and I already saw a Pantheon there.
34:57 I would probably farm near the bush there, if I'm in that bush I would be in a flexible position, its to closer to my tower, I'm possibly invisible and I could clear the minions or ambush if I want.
Seemed like a cool dude! He had a bit of an easy game with those teammates but there was some education about how to dive and vision with backing. Also hopefully he learned a bit about exercising his leads. As a Garen you can 1v3 if they’re low like that, as a fellow Silver it feels like you’re about to feed so I understand the hesitation.
So many people in Silver like to ARAM mid/late game. To me League is kind of like Basketball with positioning. You don’t see all the players huddle up on one point of the court, they create pressure and rotate to get to the hoop (Nexus in this context)
@@OrenjiMochi I've always felt league should try a 6v6 mode, but the extra players are the team coach/commander with a top down grid assigning macro plays and try to get people who never listen to pay attention, be like trying to herd cats. Kinda like playing squad.
@@SilkySnow_ I try to herd em with my pings lol. Like "Let's take baron after we wiped the team instead of just one tower" or "Hey we're behind so lets give them a dragon instead while we do baron or farm, instead of dying at dragon pit and losing both"
@@OrenjiMochi Yeah that's that juicy salt generation right there, or when you wipe the enemy team, and they go back to farm your own jungle and back instead of taking their jungle and taking towers.
A constant game of this feels like winning your chess piece battle, but your pieces don't go forward.
15:45 side note
I notice that the little yellow flower on the bottom wall is where the enemy vision ends if they are standing under tower
Loving the new format btw with the after-match analyses during the video
I've been grand Master on starcraft for a couple years. And I'm finally a grand Master on league at 32 XD
Well done homie
So which is harder?
@@maruquijano4915StarCraft obviously
Neace your coaching has really evolved! This is amazing! I feel like I should pay you for this.
I mean, this is advertising in a sense- for getting new clients. Yt revenue is also a thing. So you are _paying_ him in a way.
I'm the same hahahah - I am high master SC2 Wings, HOTS's and Legacy.... started playing LoL last year and I'm hardstuck Plat 2 - I think the difficulty for SC2 players is that they are so used to having ABSOLUTE control over the game, in the sense that is my APM is 300 - 400 (Not that I can do that any more, BOOMER) there is very little you can't control whereas in League there are a lot more variables (Other Players) which can cause frustration and based on the ELO and other players different decisions are optimal.
Huh. The penny finally dropped.
At around 16:30 when Neace explains the minion pathing and advises us to "walk the crease"...
This is the situation that results in a laner getting roamed and ganked on when their teammate hasn't even sent out an enemy missing ping yet; we've all been there.
It's because they pushed in, walked straight back and then roamed, never giving the illusion that they might go roam. The laner doesn't realize the enemy laner is gone until they hear the anguished cries of their teammate...
This video was very good content. I might have heard about 'the crease' before but seeing it with the gig if war really made me think about it. And the dive ' who can kill me now exercise' also really good
The whiteboard sessions edited in are SO good!
20:00 I think he was also worry about the minions damaging him... and he wanted to loose "aggro" by going in the bush
Awesome video! Thanks all the recommendations 😃
Neace, man, I just wanna say that your content has just hit a new plateau. This is top tier stuff
Yo neace, the editing is getting crazy good these days. Props
I like how this client will say "say that again, I don't understand" instead of obviously not understanding and pretending to
That eminem edit had me rollinggggggggg
DYIN
I really really really like the splicing of post-game commentary into the game itself.
How to tell he is a SC player.
He has his minimap on the bottom left.
*SIDE NOTE*
You can easily get to masters in SC with 130 APM.
Just have builds that can apply a bit of pressure so you know at (X) time he should have (Y) amount.
Some builds that are friendly that can apply pressure but can also use it for defense too. You'll naturally transition into bigger armies that are more sophisticated but these were my "GO-TO" builds that got me out of Diamond.
2 or 3 gate blink stalker + robo
2-1-1 16 marines + stim + 2 medivacs
Rushing +1 carapace for your Zerglings
Naturally these builds alone wont end the game unless you become very good at it and your opponent has way worse control than you but the builds are naturally more on the safe side while you can still apply pressure without doing a coin-flip "ALL-IN". These builds all challenges your opponent "CAN YOU MICRO AND MACRO AT THE SAME TIME"?
thank you for the insights, a lot of this I've also been doing and wondering about ends up being good ELO just the fact that you only need 1-2 champs per role makes sense! master a few know the rest to get use to all the macro things you cant ever consciously know about.
"I don't want you to flash him, dude. That's disgusting. nobody wants to see that" -Neace 34:28
what a fucking sweetheart man, just general good vibes from this guy.
this is one of the best coaching sessions I've seen from Neace
realy like the edeting on that video the mistakes in play and directly after the analysis
"He's my yeeyaayeyeeye he's my man, he's my yeeyeyyayaaayaya my boi" - This will live in my head for ages
editing style worked, gj + ty
neace is right tho , i was masters 1 in starcraft and when i started league got gold in my first season no problem
League is clicking is weird as hell, It's easiy to mis champs you think you're clicking on. clicking on a wall (even the side on the side closest to where you are) somehow causes your champ to path differently -- like going back and around to the other side of the wall..
lol that Eminem AI
Neace u gotta tell them to ward in any spot with multiple traffic run ways so like a bush with 4 run ways has multiple spots for traffic to cross thru
"im pretty sure i have a learning disability" while trying to rank up is possibly the most accurate way to put it lol
Assessing for the potential enemy champs popping out and killing you should be happening as often as someone checks to make sure they aren't supply blocked.
what is a supply block?
For me that’s like once every time the Queen screams at me to build another overlord
@@fiction1992 in RTS games like Starcraft, you've got a maximum number of units you can have in your army at any given point, called supply. The maximum number is based on how many supply buildings you have, and you rhythmically increase it over the course of the game. To be supply blocked means that you fucked up your macro somewhere by not building additional supply buildings. For me, it happened a lot after expanding and adding additional unit-producing buildings but not assigning additional workers to build supply buildings to match my increased income.
Also happened a lot after big fights where I'd need to spend most of my money to replace my army and I didn't "switch back" to macro mode.
Either way, it's just a number in the top-right corner that you'd constantly check in game to make sure you can still produce units. You'd check it almost as often as the minimap
@@coherentlegacy7281 Alright! Thanks a lot!
@@fiction1992 "additional supply depots required"
I was thinking maybe one way to explain the situation with backing out after making a dive is the 'follow the light at the end of the tunnel'
AKA don't walk into any random bushes or the enemy jungle, just walk the line right back to where you've got full vision lol
I’m a Starcraft player as well, high diamond Zerg, but I’m a low silver/ bronzie in league and I know it’s cause my macro descision making is GARBAGE
As a Terran he should really play a kite-heavy character like ADC Vayne or so.
first time I'm watching your content. Very good points you had, good video
Fuck me, i didnt even watch 2 mins of this video and im almost in tears from laughing so hard...
Being a master in starcraft I can say that the difference between master and grandmaster is the same as the difference between challenger and gold, honestly this guy is insane for hitting grandmaster on 3 different accounts.
Walking out of lane for the false roam reminds me of a thing incontrol said on one of his streams years ago, playing as protoss into zerg.
He kept doing these fake pushes. Just waln his army out, kill some creep, walk back. He said that it would cost the zerg resources to build an army to counter the push. Except he didn't push, he'd expand. And not relieving the cap by killing those units really hurt zerg in the long run, and let incontrol win.
Same concept there, really. The mid laner is gaining something by being pushed up like that, and loses something by having to pull back and protect themselves. Until they get complacent and you actually roam and kill them.
Awesome coaching
Dude, you make the best content, I've ever seen, about this game
Imma add to everyone saying that i also love the cuts to vod review for certain parts
When i first started playing whenever people killed me I used to type to them in all chat saying how it was super dope what they did and they would always flame me haha I was in 8th grade then..
There have always been a war between different games. Dota vs LoL, CoD vs BF, CS vs Valorant etc etc.
But every gamer agrees to give StarCraft players credit 🙏
I was surprised by his camera control, being a GM SCII player… I suppose he must be really good with camera locations or perhaps he uses middle click more. Either that or camera movement doesn’t translate well when he has so much new stuff to think about and/or he doesn’t know what exactly he should be looking at anyways.
More than anything now in Top lane when I get a little bit of breathing room I figure out where the jungler is. Most of the time i throw a Control ward on their buff
I didnt watch the whole video and this might have come up already, but I think that he should definitely press s when farming to cancel the movement commands. He wouldve gotten a lot more cs.
This is a great vid yo. It hit different
Holy shit that bootcamp commercial with the Eninem voice got me. HAHAHAHAHA
1:45 lol ninja comes to mind
likeing this new review format
I relate to this guy SO much and how long it takes him to learn games. I am the same bro
Should have asked him to show you his composition. If he plays mech that drops him down a league or two :)
lol id love seeing this dude use zyra hed be enjoying those spines since those things are like spine crawlers or he can use yorick for those mistcrawlers like how stukov uses infected terrans
Every league player: but neace there is a garen in every Bush though!
"TittyLord", "UncleClimax" lol this guy :D D:
This is one thing what i like dota more, bush in lol you can just walk right tru, in dota you can get stuck in the trees.
lovely content as always
when you're editing these videos you should raise the volume (or move it down) when the person your coaching speaks to make the volume more consistent throughout
The first thing I did was to try every champion.
Partly to learn what they did and what to watch out for but also to find "my champs"
Then I narrowed it down to roughly 2-3 champs in each role so that I wouldn't have to fight people for position, I would be atleast serviceable in every role.
This works excellent in low elo but once you reach a bit higher you kinda have to spend enough time perfecting a few select champs to keep up.
Luckily for me this happened roughly at the same time as they made preset positions while matching. 🤣
i was always all my life gold/platinum in SC. i recently replayed it briefly and got masters as well which i know im not
He says he didn't have to do anything.
But him keeping irelia in lane and honest allowed his team a fair 4v4
He didn't int and he kept pantheon interested top a few times.
Sometimes all u gotta do is play well enough to get carried
The editing in this one was on point.
thank you willem dafoe. very cool!
You are doing great. Just got to digest the fundamentals.
I love the Eminem ad. Is that edited sound or did you really get eminem to plug your bootcamp???
I would love to get into your bootcamp, but I am at school in programming. When I finish school I will be looking for your enxt bootcamp and free myself just for that.
This guy even sounds like the pilot of Goliath in Star Craft 2 😀
Lmao what the actual hell was that Eminem bootcamp ad. Brilliant is what it is
Gotta love the 40+ players with the serious names like .... ehhmmm TittyLord!
At around 9:55 , u didnt tell him to walk up into tower range to get the gold from the plate, he legit lost plate money for no reason when he had 3 waves stacked and coulda either hit tower or just get in range to get the plate, thats pretty huge tbh