I love you Michael, You are honest about the prediction in prices. These watch dealers are always biased. They talk as if they are financial analysts. I have been collecting watches since 2002 and never ever saw a watch market like this in the last 2 years. Good Luck to people who bought these watches at 3X or 4X. I hate when people say watches are investment, Watches are meant to be worn enjoyed and passed on. These dealers and flippers killed the fun of collectors and watch enthusiasts. I am sorry if i hurt anybody's feelings. I hope that there will be a day soon that you can walk into an AD and buy a watch of your choice.
I don’t think there’s a bubble, only a bubble to a curtain extent. Rolex submariners will NEVER go below retail. Daytonas will never go below 2 times there value.
No way you can any watch you want from the ad. That’s not their business model. But I agree that the marked is more or less fu*ked. It will come down on certain models and other models will go up. But what I can agree 100% on is that watches are meant to be worn, enjoyed and passed on. 👍🏻
Who cares about pleple who bought watches at 3x 4x prices. People who are buying 50k, 100k, hell even 5k+ USD watches have those money to BURN. They do not need them for living.
whenever someone tells you "commodity X will never go down", "investment Y wiil definitely retain value", run like the wind. I'm glad to see that Michael has always been careful with his words, unlike some dealers featured in his videos. people just don't learn from history. there's almost no investment that is hazard free. and the more irrational the value, the more volatility it possesses.
Because of Rolex constantly playing games with not releasing watches and having only exhibition watches I have purchased a Grand Seiko Shunbun. Fantastic watch, dial and movement. No stupid questions, long wait list or snobbery. Went in, made to feel very welcome and brought the watch.
But you wanted a Rolex, that’s the issue with people buying substitutes, it will never ever feel as good as that Rolex. It is awful what ADs do, but you got to play the game, to win. You buy watch you truly want.
Great piece and congrats! I have a shunbun as well and love it. With all the bad vibes surrounding Rolex, I went into an AD in my hometown and couldn't be happier with the service and experience of putting my name down. I'm not in a rush to purchase and there's a sort of thrill in the chance of getting the Rolex I want at MSRP.
@@acac1982 I have a Rolex Milgauss 116400GV and a 2016 116900 Airking. Loved the watches and still do. I was just saying that I cannot purchase anymore due to the games Rolex play. I’d like the Tiffany OP but well out my price range now. I kept asking Rolex AD’s for this but was told I would never get one. These are one of the cheapest watches Rolex make but I give up on waiting and won’t pay the secondary market a huge mark up
Amazing how the Nautilus 5711 according to this video when filmed early Aug was $140k... as of Aug 16, 2022... that same exact model with box and papers is now going for $117k on chrono24 and nobody is buying. Keep the price cuts coming!
so real price is 85% of lowest chrono prices since there are 7% fee and the other 8% is discount to move. Watch Affociado way overprice their watches anyways. You can get better pricing from other grey dealers
As a Swiss following the watch market I can tell you that prices will fall MUCH more. Its quite likely that you will be able to buy most Rolex, AP and PP under list price within 6-12 months as the global recession hits hard. All speculators and grey market dealers will be flood the market with watches whilst very few people will buy.
Yes agreed. Rolex 'expressions of interest' (waiting lists) are very healthy at the moment, but it'll be a different matter next year, when people get the call.
I like how he avoided Michaels question 😂. I think the Luxury watch Market will continue to dip over the next few months. The lucky few who get to purchase them at list will be good
@AWN 777 we are already in a recession that has a likelihood to get worse in the next few months. I think it’s safe to say luxury goods like watches and jewelry will certainly have a pullback
"50% off", LMAO, no. The bubble is bursting and they're trying to sell them to you before they tank even more. When the watches are back to normal MSRP prices or lower is when it will be worth considering purchasing.
50% off 😂 Still a lot more than retail. I’d never buy flipped watches in the grey market. Guess a lot of people including dealers lost their ass. It couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of schmucks.
@Dell Wright not really. I bought three rolex from regular AD’s. Explorer 1 in 2020, Explorer 2 in 2019 and a SkyDweller in January of this year. Just by walking into local stores in Germany, Las Vegas and Spain. For the SkyDweller I had to wait a month. I had no prior relationship with these dealers. Oh, I even got one of these fun Swatch watches too. 😅
I will never pay a penny over retail and quite happy to wait for the stuff I want. Watches arent investments, you buy them to wear them. I'm actually glad the market took a big hit, hopefully it will come down even more. People went bat shit crazy and paid 60,000$ for a 4000$ watch for fucks sake. Personally I'm not interested in the top segment of the market anyway. Quite happy to stay within the 2500$-15000$ range.
"We are now at fair market." Well, 6 months ago when that steel 5711 was $200K and that panda Daytona was $55K, that was fair market at that time. The market changes. Pricing above fair market means charging more than others are charging at that time. Fair market changes with time. It is not stable. Whenever you're paying over MSRP, you're at risk.
Whenever watch retailers/sellers talk prices, they always say they're gonna be stable... Always time to buy, never time to wait... I don't think they act ethically. More like scammers, actually. Don't like this a bit, sorry.
Enjoy the squirming. Come back in another three months and watch them say prices are "stable" after more large falls. These guys are giving a free education to those who had the sense not to spend stupid money up to now. Many people will learn the dealer is not your friend and never was. 😊😊😊
Producer Michael, you need to call those guys out on their recommendation. Anyone who knows money, and anyone with any kind of fiduciary experience, will tell you that we are headed for a prolonged and deep recession. The primary watch market has not bottomed out. And the secondary market has a long way to drop before it stabilizes. It will be between 6 and 12 months, and most Rolex models will be available at MSRP. Or discounted. Many dealers have been hanging on to inventory hoping prices have bottomed out. But they will not be able to sit on inventory indefinitely. And when that happens, those millions and millions of Rolex will be available on the market. Not the scarce models, or the limited editions. Or the rare gem editions. But it will not be long before we will be seeing Batman's in the gray market at MSRP or lower.
These are the videos when i realise Michael is a lot more prudent than he seems. He has been buying watches at cutdown prices while the speculators have been selling off.
He’s very savvy and he didn’t get where he is now without a business brain. Most of his Rolex are at retail from AD. He’s shown quite a few pieces he’s acquired from AD, and Adam made sure he showed the receipt of price he paid. These two have no doubt gone to Micheal and asked to be showcased on his channel.
You are the first who really understand....... Just wait it will go down big time.... People who are in this stupid empty lonely word of watches with all their money know ..... It was all about fast money. Me me me.... They Will loose big time
People borrow to buy cars which depreciate so why not borrow to buy a watch which has more chance of appreciating if you can afford it,but its all about timing obviously buy when prices are low
You see Vadim is being very quiet cuz he knows that we haven't hit bottom yet. Prices are going to keep on dropping...it wasn't too long ago in 2016 or 2015 when you could buy rolexes, and popular ones at that, for under retail price. In the next 3 to 6 months I'm waiting for those Glory Days to return.
I like how Michael will always talk to Adam and always ask his opinion. Definitely a good boss to be around and pretty much can learn lot of things with him
If they actually sold, I see so many listings that just sit there not selling. Anyone can list something at extortionate prices but is anyone actually buying them or is it all hype from the people just trying to sell them...
The people that took the heavy hits were those that were borrowing just to flip the watches. I don't know how many of those flippers were in the marketplace but it was clearly enough that everyone recognized their influence. With them gone (or slowly getting out of the market) things should begin to stabilize whether that's now or some months from now. People like Michael should be safe because all of his purchases (as far as I know) are done with money he's actually earned so even if the value of his watch collection crashed (as Michael so loves to say) it isn't going to severely hurt him. Though I'm sure he wouldn't be happy.
@@nanoflower1 people are seeing its not really worth it for all the bs you have to do, yes you can buy a watch to resell but after you sell it, it's gone because you'll have to buy another at the price you sold it for. So either keep the watch or make a little profit. I think they put those crazy high listenings up so you feel like you're actually getting a decent deal but you're not.
The most big part that make me fan of Michael that his a men with big open heart and he like to make his fan happy just of doing his video.we can see many reality truth about all this big brand watch. He show us how he negotiate with all this big seller,and the bonus that he always figth discount for his fan on purchase .
It is true about retailers holding the watches. I bought recently a Rolex from Goldsmith and was told I’ll have to wait over a year only to get a phone 2 weeks later saying that my watch has arrived. Also they do suggested to me that I need to buy some other stuff as well if I wanted the really “rare” watches. Just don’t pay the silly prices second hand
Had the same, they said it's worth 20k more on the grey market, so you have to buy 20k+ in jewels, after waiting 14 months or so, told them to fuck right off.
Don't know if you've noticed, but there's an odd clicking noise in this video. I do just really admire Micheal for the wealth of information these videos give
Good old Buffet said it best.... ¨Be fearful when others are greedy (= SELL) and greedy when others are fearful¨ (=BUY) Not there justttttt yet with watches, but indeed: if you ever wanted to go for a purchase; do it - knowing that your chances of seeing improving value increased 5x times since 6 months ago. In that sense watched are like stocks, only more fun:)
Got into watches last month.Bought an Olevs and an invicta 42mm, Gold (36552) that looks like a Rolex,it's sold out on invicta website.Then I learned the Hulk Rolex collection hit the market which is on bonhams auction website.Every Hulk Rolex from 2010 to 2020.And even the Hulk 2 feet Statue.Min Bid is $29,000 for all of them each.The 2010 Hulk Rolex is $35,000 bid and the 2020 Hulk Rolex is $38,000 bid.The best watches keep time.This is far from what ProducerMichael buys but at least its a start for me and as long as those two watches keep time,i made a good choice.
Such salesmanship, they look at you straight in the eye telling you a $50K watch "now" selling$150K is hitting a sweet spot. They both know they are still in this game because truth is watches are still insanely over priced, we have not gone anywhere near normal, until these used pieces goes less than retail DO NOT BUY. Great content but these two guys aren't honest. They are here to promote and sell...another thing I hate about these two well dressed salesmen is they now all sound like financial advisor, stabilized, sweet spot, future, market, trends....all these buzz words, these guys are not experts, they are Craigslist flippers, no difference.
@@samuelburton5576 I'm not questioning their integrity but am more than willing to point out that they have a great incentive to see the marketplace through rose colored glasses. After all, telling people the price will only go down from here is not how you sell anything. So they may actually think the marketplace is at a stable point,but until a few months have gone by with relatively stable prices no one can be sure we've hit a bottom. This is true for any market where a large number of the buyers were just flipping the products. It's happened with shoes, with graphic cards and with watches.
@@samuelburton5576 It's a simple principle called freedom of expression, freedom to pursuit happiness. I can say whatever I want as it is my right. These two are clowns. Producer Michael is fine he is making great content, who are you to question me? Watch is like art, all in the eyes the beholder. Sam, think for yourself.
What a surprise another grey market dealer once again saying the same thing they’ve been saying for the past six months “no you’re good NOW, you can buy watches now”. If you aren’t getting that watch at retail, if you don’t absolutely have to have THAT watch and the price is of little concern, anyone buying a watch on the secondary market today is a fool. And you know what they say about fools and money.
Clearly the two guys selling the watches are not gonna tell you to keep waiting much longer knowing that prices are going to continue to drop .The higher $ you pay the more $ they make
I’ve always been a bit baffled why antique watches from the 50’s,60’s,70’s etc don’t command more money. There are some very unique high quality watches from those era’s that are harder to buy than many Rolex, Tissot, seiko etc etc Would be nice if you could feature a video with these sort of watches at some point with watches like sultana, smiths, modina and other vintage watch brands
Watches from that period are much smaller in diameter, so they're out of style. Also, the cost of maintaining them and fixing them is outrageous because the parts aren't available.
I do get that they might be expensive to maintain but if you’re looking for something that not many will be able to find but easily affordable then some of the older vintage watches can be a good option. My sultana chronograph running landerno 149 is a good 38mm wide and looks as good as some of my more modern watches and always get more questions from people asking what it is and where they can get one till I explain how old it is (late 60’s early 70’s)
The watch industry is all about marketing and false scarcity. Patek makes over 60,000 watches PER YEAR. AP makes over 40,000 watches PER YEAR. Rolex makes OVER 800,000 WATCHES PER YEAR. There's no reason most "limited" modern pieces should ever be trading above retail, let alone general production pieces, but gatekeeping by the brands creates that false inflation. Older watches from a time when production was a fraction of what it is now should be objectively more valuable, but the market is dictated by modern trends. Maybe they'll get the recognition they deserve in another 50 years.
Take a look at vintage Rolex Patek VC etc and get back to me. Vintage watches are the most valuable watches in the world. They command much more then there modern counterparts
@@saint7626 exactly! There’s so many older watches out there that are absolutely outstanding in terms of quality and style plus the rarity factor and at fraction of the price.
Second 0:38 into the video something is up with the guy in black. Everytime Michael says "down in value" or "collapsed" or "decreased" you can tell these guys get ticked lmao! It's probably because they prefer "corrected" as apposed to the wording the mike uses which scares customers away. The fact of the matter is Mike's wording is THE HARSH REALITY. THANKS MIKE!
Haha it's so fun to see them sweating and hoping they would flip them asap before they will start the sell below the sticker and they will. Trust me...
I like how they all now say “oh yeah prices were high and needed correction” when they are the ones who priced and sold high promising people great investment deals. Bunch of scammers and unethical practices. They should be ashamed of themselves.
I can't help it, these watch videos are addictive, they've always been my favorite on your chan. I miss Seth being out of the mainstream, and loved the "Mr Wonderful" vids. Well done, more of these, please.
Many sheep lost their shirts as well as many dealers. Great news! People need to realize, very few modern watches can be considered investments. Most are are volatile are crypto. The true cause of the crash is that the prices were artificially inflated by dealers. Most were dealer to dealer trades with but marked as sold at some stupid number, only to see the same watch relisted a week later lol
I just picked up a GMT Batman at slightly above retail & have a Submariner coming at a similar price. I never would’ve spent the prices at the peak of the market.
Doesn’t matter If you are rich or not. No watch in the world should have a pricetag of more then 30K. If you have diamonds max. 50K. But stainless steel watches over the 10K!? People with class and style never pay that amount of money for stainless steel. At the end, it’s just a watch.
When he said feel for the guy who paid 320k, and the other fella said who new who new. Not him directly but plenty of grey market dealers said you will never lose I will get your money back or make on it, not at any point did they say it could drop btw 120k. If they did they might not have paid 275k over retail.
we haven't seen the worst yet. and i wouldn't be surprised to see these watches selling below retail in the near future. thanks Michael. you're da man.
I appreciate your inclusion of the fundamental economic forces driving this current market. The biggest risk I see for AP is the failure to bring in new customers because of supply shortages and waiting lists. I recently bought a luxury sports watch and wanted to include the Oyster Perpetual on my short list. The local AD had no inventory to show but plenty of Omega, Breitling, and AP watches. I bought a Seamaster Diver 300 and am very happy with my purchase. Watching your videos has helped me become a more educated consumer and appreciate the many brands and product options out there
I get what Rolex is doing but I do question how long they can continue. It's like Debeers and diamonds. They've got tons of diamonds in inventory but they limit the supply so the price stays high. Particularly with the market being the way it is Rolex doesn't want to release a large number of watches to the market as it would only further lower the market so they limit the supply and help maintain their price. Also the limited supply helps maintain the desirability of a Rolex (at least so far.) Will it remain that way forever? No one knows.
If you can buy retail from Rolex/AP/Patek, you will generally maintain value or have appreciation over time. If you’re buying over retail price there is no historical precedent to say they will hold value or go up. All of this 3x or 4x retail prices were ridiculous
The GMT Master II, Batman, oyster bracelet, is still double the price on Jaztime. No buy for me. I don't care how long it takes, I'm not paying over retail. If I never get it, oh well.
It won't be long before dealers are trying to offload for much less. One of those guys looks like he's already been scalped by whoever he's leveraged to. 😂🤣😂🤣😂
One of my favorite watch lovers he loves watch same like me big fan of watch but the diferance is that michael is rich he can buy any watch that he dreams, but I'm not that rich that i can afford to buy so expensive watch but i really really like to watch that kind of video on luxury watch.just of watching that kind of video already make me happy and got 50% of my dreams for watch ⌚️ achieve
Watches have so much more room to fall it’s scary especially when home prices begin to severally decline no one in their right mind will be looking to buy a hunk of metal when they could scoop up cheap real estate
50% off of a crazy price is still a stupid price... So you saying that I can get a SUB for 18K when new is 9 but before was 22K ? WOW AMAZIIIING..... and what is this continus clicking sound on the video Adam ?
Told you the Tulips were due to sprout. Rolex Daytona Petrizzi 1995 to 1996 is a cracking investment. Very short supply, chemical error *like stamp collector errors, going up up up. Probably double in 24 months. But anything NOT in very short supply, or able to be made, nope. Going down, down, down. Especially the plastic crap.
I’m a fan of those who are a fan of watches and even mansions, hence why I’m forever a supporter of this channel, because I love the lifestyle and possibilities, but come on now lol if something cost 30 K and it went up to 250 K and now it’s at 150… that’s not a correction 🤣 this is why I love producer Michael because he genuinely loves watches, but to all the hustlers and scammers out there, good for you!! I hope the market continues to crash and collapses. We have to love and be honest and fair with one another. But $100,000’s above what it cost to make and pay those who made it is crazy!! That’s like me renting my house out for 3200 when my mortgage is only 1,200 Lol God would be soo disappointed. 🤣 which is why I’m trying to rent it out for 1700 🤣 anyone interested?
Its still going to go down the stores have brand new ones they can't sell for retail prices and people still think they can get over market value all the flippers are trying to keep the prices up so they don't lose their asses like they should for driving it so high in first place but its well on way to crashing like it should time to sell your fancy cars to the market going to crash to
michael: "i feel bad for the guy who bought it at 320 right? Eddie: who knew, who knew? apparently michael knew. because hes been questioning the meteoric rise on the prices since the beginning and always said its unsustainable. But Its in the best interests of any salesmen to inflate the idea of value which translates to cost so they can make more money. Sure, they may not dictate the costs directly because value is subjective and ultimately based on what someone is willing to pay. But they definitely exacerbated the huge jump/inflation on watches. Just like realestate agents do with houses. After you factor in supply and demand and comps, you can then set whatever price you think u can sell it for.
This is a great lesson. I've made 50% in 3 months ($2M), and I've also lost 50% in 3 months while investing on the same principles. It's an educated gambling game
To assemble lincoln SUV costs around $5000 and they sell it for 35k roughly; used rolex has a decent price, you can buy with the certificate depending of the model, 5-8k and more..nothing wrong to be a second owner of some Rolex, you wear it and you can keep or resell it, in europe the watch expert says yes breitling is the better watch but Rolex will always keep the interest and price on the market. Also, i have nothing against the good dupes, we can not afford just everything to have in this life.
The reason a Rolex is selling at such high mark-ups over list is because - even though Rolex produces 800k+ watches per annum - demand still exceeds supply. The RRP is below the market equilibrium and the used market is finding the equilibrium (albeit a fluctuating one).
I’m with Michael regarding the crypto collapse. After this collapse even the mugs will be wary of something built solely on ‘confidence’ with no intrinsic value and I never see it recovering. Once bitten, twice shy!
As a watch connoisseur. I can only watch and admire these watches. But in the end these gorgeous hand crafted with care watches will always be expensive. Still an excellent deal though. Great video and awesome presentation.
Expensive, yes. But what are they worth? The retail price by itself is already inflated and the AD’s as well as manufacturer make a handsome profit. Paying grey market prices is nuts.
Yes, watches are same like crypt-o currency $$$, same for classic cars and furniture and yachts, I personally would not buy a 100 000$ watch if it would not slow down the time.TH
Prices should be less than retail, my first rolex cost £3000 new, sold for £2000 a few years later. 300% over retail AFTER a fall is still crazy. Tulips.
What’s the point of asking watch salesmen the status of the watch market? Any conflict of interest? 😂 I mean look at 9:26, what is he going to say? “Don’t buy now”? 😂
Late last year & early this year when market was still very hot… I commented that the bubble will eventually burst … just like stock, bond, housing, crypto , etc… of course many ppl didn’t agree with that view back then… Many ppl said high prices are here to stay… Now I’m going to say that watch market is gonna drop further… a lot more room to go… the watch dealers say market is stabilising n unlikely to go down…I beg to differ… When inflation is high, Fed increases rates and removes liquidity from the market via QT. Those who over leveraged find themselves in trouble. Many will be forced to sell whatever assets they have on hand… stocks, property, watches, crypto etc. when there are more ppl doing this, asset prices going down … Those dealers who bought inventory at high price and refuse to let go now, thinking market will go up soon, will be going down the drain.
I love you Michael, You are honest about the prediction in prices. These watch dealers are always biased. They talk as if they are financial analysts. I have been collecting watches since 2002 and never ever saw a watch market like this in the last 2 years. Good Luck to people who bought these watches at 3X or 4X. I hate when people say watches are investment, Watches are meant to be worn enjoyed and passed on. These dealers and flippers killed the fun of collectors and watch enthusiasts. I am sorry if i hurt anybody's feelings. I hope that there will be a day soon that you can walk into an AD and buy a watch of your choice.
Nah you haven't screw emm all
I don’t think there’s a bubble, only a bubble to a curtain extent. Rolex submariners will NEVER go below retail. Daytonas will never go below 2 times there value.
No way you can any watch you want from the ad. That’s not their business model. But I agree that the marked is more or less fu*ked. It will come down on certain models and other models will go up. But what I can agree 100% on is that watches are meant to be worn, enjoyed and passed on. 👍🏻
Who cares about pleple who bought watches at 3x 4x prices.
People who are buying 50k, 100k, hell even 5k+ USD watches have those money to BURN. They do not need them for living.
@@acac1982 you can already get a Ceramic Daytona below 2x retail lol
whenever someone tells you "commodity X will never go down", "investment Y wiil definitely retain value", run like the wind. I'm glad to see that Michael has always been careful with his words, unlike some dealers featured in his videos. people just don't learn from history. there's almost no investment that is hazard free. and the more irrational the value, the more volatility it possesses.
And when it does go down, those 'experts' disappear into thin air..
Nice words
This felt like i was watching a therapy session where the dealers were convincing themselves everything is all okay😭
totally
Yes, thay will all say off corse correction is over -buy the fu....in watches...mhm we get used on waiting -so we will wait some more
@@roksmerkol8300 Love when these dealers act like they’re doing a favour for customers. It’s like a welfare check up huh? 😂😂😂
Can't really blame them as they are salesmen trying to sell a product and telling people the price will only get lower isn't going to work for them.
Yes hahahha
Because of Rolex constantly playing games with not releasing watches and having only exhibition watches I have purchased a Grand Seiko Shunbun. Fantastic watch, dial and movement. No stupid questions, long wait list or snobbery. Went in, made to feel very welcome and brought the watch.
But you wanted a Rolex, that’s the issue with people buying substitutes, it will never ever feel as good as that Rolex. It is awful what ADs do, but you got to play the game, to win. You buy watch you truly want.
Great piece and congrats! I have a shunbun as well and love it. With all the bad vibes surrounding Rolex, I went into an AD in my hometown and couldn't be happier with the service and experience of putting my name down. I'm not in a rush to purchase and there's a sort of thrill in the chance of getting the Rolex I want at MSRP.
@@acac1982 Totally agree. He never got what he really wanted and if he gets the call he would’ve wasted money on a Seiko unnecessary purchase.
@@acac1982 well said
@@acac1982 I have a Rolex Milgauss 116400GV and a 2016 116900 Airking. Loved the watches and still do. I was just saying that I cannot purchase anymore due to the games Rolex play. I’d like the Tiffany OP but well out my price range now. I kept asking Rolex AD’s for this but was told I would never get one. These are one of the cheapest watches Rolex make but I give up on waiting and won’t pay the secondary market a huge mark up
Amazing how the Nautilus 5711 according to this video when filmed early Aug was $140k... as of Aug 16, 2022... that same exact model with box and papers is now going for $117k on chrono24 and nobody is buying. Keep the price cuts coming!
so real price is 85% of lowest chrono prices since there are 7% fee and the other 8% is discount to move. Watch Affociado way overprice their watches anyways. You can get better pricing from other grey dealers
Excellent. When it hits 15k I'll buy (got to sell my car first though).
Still an insane price for a basic 3-hander in steel
@Dell Wright the recession hasn't started yet. Give it 6 months more.
@Dell Wright the recession is still in the early phases, wait till mid 2023 and you will like what you see :-)
As a Swiss following the watch market I can tell you that prices will fall MUCH more. Its quite likely that you will be able to buy most Rolex, AP and PP under list price within 6-12 months as the global recession hits hard. All speculators and grey market dealers will be flood the market with watches whilst very few people will buy.
Yes agreed. Rolex 'expressions of interest' (waiting lists) are very healthy at the moment, but it'll be a different matter next year, when people get the call.
I like how he avoided Michaels question 😂. I think the Luxury watch Market will continue to dip over the next few months. The lucky few who get to purchase them at list will be good
@AWN 777 we are already in a recession that has a likelihood to get worse in the next few months. I think it’s safe to say luxury goods like watches and jewelry will certainly have a pullback
They haven’t crashed as it was all false in the first place , if they are still well above retail then they are still extremely over priced ….
It sounds like you are talking about the economy!
"50% off", LMAO, no. The bubble is bursting and they're trying to sell them to you before they tank even more. When the watches are back to normal MSRP prices or lower is when it will be worth considering purchasing.
50% off 😂 Still a lot more than retail. I’d never buy flipped watches in the grey market. Guess a lot of people including dealers lost their ass. It couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of schmucks.
👍👍😂😂
@Dell Wright not really. I bought three rolex from regular AD’s. Explorer 1 in 2020, Explorer 2 in 2019 and a SkyDweller in January of this year. Just by walking into local stores in Germany, Las Vegas and Spain. For the SkyDweller I had to wait a month. I had no prior relationship with these dealers. Oh, I even got one of these fun Swatch watches too. 😅
@Dell Wright
But to by a Tissot at retail is also not smart.
You can get always 10-15% off easily.
@@aeroAdvocate those aren’t the highly desired models though
This correction is great for watch enthusiasts. Terrible for flippers who only see watches as money makers.
Michael seems to delight in telling people the market has "crashed"
Because he knows so many of these guys are scam artists.
@@dlife7427 lol have you seen all these youtuber watch dealers, they're all ex convicts/shady as fuck.
@@andrewvaughan5686 exactly
@@Kigoz4Life I think he does it out of mischief but I don't think you should take delight in other people's misfortune
@@Kigoz4Life he's never going to sell them regardless so it doesn't matter to him if they're worth 2c or $2 million
I will never pay a penny over retail and quite happy to wait for the stuff I want. Watches arent investments, you buy them to wear them. I'm actually glad the market took a big hit, hopefully it will come down even more.
People went bat shit crazy and paid 60,000$ for a 4000$ watch for fucks sake.
Personally I'm not interested in the top segment of the market anyway. Quite happy to stay within the 2500$-15000$ range.
I will never pay retail. The MSRP for these PP and AP watches is too high (10x already) compared to what they cost to make.
Real collectors have been waiting for this
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"We are now at fair market." Well, 6 months ago when that steel 5711 was $200K and that panda Daytona was $55K, that was fair market at that time. The market changes. Pricing above fair market means charging more than others are charging at that time. Fair market changes with time. It is not stable. Whenever you're paying over MSRP, you're at risk.
That same 5711r they are saying is sub 200k is on their site for 229k
Whenever watch retailers/sellers talk prices, they always say they're gonna be stable... Always time to buy, never time to wait... I don't think they act ethically. More like scammers, actually. Don't like this a bit, sorry.
Enjoy the squirming. Come back in another three months and watch them say prices are "stable" after more large falls. These guys are giving a free education to those who had the sense not to spend stupid money up to now. Many people will learn the dealer is not your friend and never was. 😊😊😊
Because you didn't hear what you wanted. That's why
@@BAF605 boo boo!!!
Watches are taking a huge hit. These “low prices” are all relative and are going to continue to drop.
How do you know Nostradamus?
Producer Michael, you need to call those guys out on their recommendation. Anyone who knows money, and anyone with any kind of fiduciary experience, will tell you that we are headed for a prolonged and deep recession. The primary watch market has not bottomed out. And the secondary market has a long way to drop before it stabilizes. It will be between 6 and 12 months, and most Rolex models will be available at MSRP. Or discounted. Many dealers have been hanging on to inventory hoping prices have bottomed out. But they will not be able to sit on inventory indefinitely. And when that happens, those millions and millions of Rolex will be available on the market. Not the scarce models, or the limited editions. Or the rare gem editions. But it will not be long before we will be seeing Batman's in the gray market at MSRP or lower.
Awesome video Michael with Wristaficionado!!! They are professionals with integrity that don't have controversy or record like Time piece gentlemen!!
These are the videos when i realise Michael is a lot more prudent than he seems.
He has been buying watches at cutdown prices while the speculators have been selling off.
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He’s very savvy and he didn’t get where he is now without a business brain. Most of his Rolex are at retail from AD. He’s shown quite a few pieces he’s acquired from AD, and Adam made sure he showed the receipt of price he paid.
These two have no doubt gone to Micheal and asked to be showcased on his channel.
"They've corrected slightly" Half the price it was 🤣
always in love with michael intro and outro
No dealer will say wait. Last 6 months all saying it won’t drop further and it does.
Wait for the recession to bite end of 2022
You are the first who really understand....... Just wait it will go down big time.... People who are in this stupid empty lonely word of watches with all their money know ..... It was all about fast money. Me me me.... They Will loose big time
People were borrowing money to buy watches? What a bad idea!
People borrow money for everything that is showing growing potential. I can still remember 2017 when people were borrowing money to buy Bitcoin 🤔
Fast money.......😂😂😂 They Will fall down
If you could beat the interest rate you borrowed it for by flipping watches, I don't see the issue.
People borrow to buy cars which depreciate so why not borrow to buy a watch which has more chance of appreciating if you can afford it,but its all about timing obviously buy when prices are low
Their worthless lives will end to the sound of a gat once their "investments " continue to crash back to normal value
You see Vadim is being very quiet cuz he knows that we haven't hit bottom yet. Prices are going to keep on dropping...it wasn't too long ago in 2016 or 2015 when you could buy rolexes, and popular ones at that, for under retail price. In the next 3 to 6 months I'm waiting for those Glory Days to return.
I like how Michael will always talk to Adam and always ask his opinion. Definitely a good boss to be around and pretty much can learn lot of things with him
Some people must have taken some nasty financial hits. Glad Michael with his *wild* watches is still safe.
If they actually sold, I see so many listings that just sit there not selling.
Anyone can list something at extortionate prices but is anyone actually buying them or is it all hype from the people just trying to sell them...
The people that took the heavy hits were those that were borrowing just to flip the watches. I don't know how many of those flippers were in the marketplace but it was clearly enough that everyone recognized their influence. With them gone (or slowly getting out of the market) things should begin to stabilize whether that's now or some months from now. People like Michael should be safe because all of his purchases (as far as I know) are done with money he's actually earned so even if the value of his watch collection crashed (as Michael so loves to say) it isn't going to severely hurt him. Though I'm sure he wouldn't be happy.
Yea ,but only Untill he tries to sell them.Good luck with that
@@nanoflower1 people are seeing its not really worth it for all the bs you have to do, yes you can buy a watch to resell but after you sell it, it's gone because you'll have to buy another at the price you sold it for. So either keep the watch or make a little profit. I think they put those crazy high listenings up so you feel like you're actually getting a decent deal but you're not.
The most big part that make me fan of Michael that his a men with big open heart and he like to make his fan happy just of doing his video.we can see many reality truth about all this big brand watch. He show us how he negotiate with all this big seller,and the bonus that he always figth discount for his fan on purchase .
We are fortunate to have PM Micheal, we can watch all these beautiful watches.
They are not friends their opportunist looking for someone to separate from his hard earned money.
It is true about retailers holding the watches. I bought recently a Rolex from Goldsmith and was told I’ll have to wait over a year only to get a phone 2 weeks later saying that my watch has arrived.
Also they do suggested to me that I need to buy some other stuff as well if I wanted the really “rare” watches.
Just don’t pay the silly prices second hand
Can i ask what watch you ordered i have an appointment with them about ordering a stainless 41mm datejust
Had the same, they said it's worth 20k more on the grey market, so you have to buy 20k+ in jewels, after waiting 14 months or so, told them to fuck right off.
I think Micheal was wondering if he'd ever get his watch back at the end 😅
Don't know if you've noticed, but there's an odd clicking noise in this video. I do just really admire Micheal for the wealth of information these videos give
Good old Buffet said it best....
¨Be fearful when others are greedy (= SELL) and greedy when others are fearful¨ (=BUY)
Not there justttttt yet with watches, but indeed: if you ever wanted to go for a purchase; do it - knowing that your chances of seeing improving value increased 5x times since 6 months ago. In that sense watched are like stocks, only more fun:)
Micheal:”Do you now what my watch is “ the guy has no idea and says “its a beautiful Rolex”
Some Of the comments are saying these two are great watch dealers
Got into watches last month.Bought an Olevs and an invicta 42mm, Gold (36552) that looks like a Rolex,it's sold out on invicta website.Then I learned the Hulk Rolex collection hit the market which is on bonhams auction website.Every Hulk Rolex from 2010 to 2020.And even the Hulk 2 feet Statue.Min Bid is $29,000 for all of them each.The 2010 Hulk Rolex is $35,000 bid and the 2020 Hulk Rolex is $38,000 bid.The best watches keep time.This is far from what ProducerMichael buys but at least its a start for me and as long as those two watches keep time,i made a good choice.
Such salesmanship, they look at you straight in the eye telling you a $50K watch "now" selling$150K is hitting a sweet spot. They both know they are still in this game because truth is watches are still insanely over priced, we have not gone anywhere near normal, until these used pieces goes less than retail DO NOT BUY. Great content but these two guys aren't honest. They are here to promote and sell...another thing I hate about these two well dressed salesmen is they now all sound like financial advisor, stabilized, sweet spot, future, market, trends....all these buzz words, these guys are not experts, they are Craigslist flippers, no difference.
Are you more informed than them? Are you more qualified than them? If not then what gives you the right to question their integrity?
@@samuelburton5576 I'm not questioning their integrity but am more than willing to point out that they have a great incentive to see the marketplace through rose colored glasses. After all, telling people the price will only go down from here is not how you sell anything. So they may actually think the marketplace is at a stable point,but until a few months have gone by with relatively stable prices no one can be sure we've hit a bottom.
This is true for any market where a large number of the buyers were just flipping the products. It's happened with shoes, with graphic cards and with watches.
@@samuelburton5576 what's the difference between them and flippers? They aren't official dealers they are the aftermarket dealers aka flippers 🤣
@@samuelburton5576 It's a simple principle called freedom of expression, freedom to pursuit happiness. I can say whatever I want as it is my right. These two are clowns. Producer Michael is fine he is making great content, who are you to question me? Watch is like art, all in the eyes the beholder. Sam, think for yourself.
They’re selling for what buyers are willing to pay. That’s all. So wtf are you on about, man?
What a surprise another grey market dealer once again saying the same thing they’ve been saying for the past six months “no you’re good NOW, you can buy watches now”. If you aren’t getting that watch at retail, if you don’t absolutely have to have THAT watch and the price is of little concern, anyone buying a watch on the secondary market today is a fool. And you know what they say about fools and money.
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Adam, i don't know what that tapping is, starts at around 6:06 and it drives me nuts
Clearly the two guys selling the watches are not gonna tell you to keep waiting much longer knowing that prices are going to continue to drop .The higher $ you pay the more $ they make
Soner you bay, less thay will lose...
@@roksmerkol8300 Why would you overpay on an investment when if you wait a little bit longer you’ll get it even cheaper. Buy low sell high
I’ve always been a bit baffled why antique watches from the 50’s,60’s,70’s etc don’t command more money. There are some very unique high quality watches from those era’s that are harder to buy than many Rolex, Tissot, seiko etc etc
Would be nice if you could feature a video with these sort of watches at some point with watches like sultana, smiths, modina and other vintage watch brands
Watches from that period are much smaller in diameter, so they're out of style. Also, the cost of maintaining them and fixing them is outrageous because the parts aren't available.
I do get that they might be expensive to maintain but if you’re looking for something that not many will be able to find but easily affordable then some of the older vintage watches can be a good option. My sultana chronograph running landerno 149 is a good 38mm wide and looks as good as some of my more modern watches and always get more questions from people asking what it is and where they can get one till I explain how old it is (late 60’s early 70’s)
The watch industry is all about marketing and false scarcity. Patek makes over 60,000 watches PER YEAR. AP makes over 40,000 watches PER YEAR. Rolex makes OVER 800,000 WATCHES PER YEAR. There's no reason most "limited" modern pieces should ever be trading above retail, let alone general production pieces, but gatekeeping by the brands creates that false inflation. Older watches from a time when production was a fraction of what it is now should be objectively more valuable, but the market is dictated by modern trends. Maybe they'll get the recognition they deserve in another 50 years.
Take a look at vintage Rolex Patek VC etc and get back to me.
Vintage watches are the most valuable watches in the world.
They command much more then there modern counterparts
@@saint7626 exactly! There’s so many older watches out there that are absolutely outstanding in terms of quality and style plus the rarity factor and at fraction of the price.
Second 0:38 into the video something is up with the guy in black.
Everytime Michael says "down in value" or "collapsed" or "decreased" you can tell these guys get ticked lmao!
It's probably because they prefer "corrected" as apposed to the wording the mike uses which scares customers away. The fact of the matter is Mike's wording is THE HARSH REALITY. THANKS MIKE!
Haha it's so fun to see them sweating and hoping they would flip them asap before they will start the sell below the sticker and they will. Trust me...
I like how they all now say “oh yeah prices were high and needed correction” when they are the ones who priced and sold high promising people great investment deals. Bunch of scammers and unethical practices. They should be ashamed of themselves.
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I'm tremendously lucky. My Rolex AD is my next door neighbor. Got all my pieces at retail.😎
I'm tremendously lucky. I have an ebay account. I got all of my pieces below retail.
I can't help it, these watch videos are addictive, they've always been my favorite on your chan. I miss Seth being out of the mainstream, and loved the "Mr Wonderful" vids. Well done, more of these, please.
I have been watching Mr Michael's videos for long time
First time I am seeing him repeating a shirt
😋
Mike is lookin energetic love watching you this way . And also the shirt looks really cool
Many sheep lost their shirts as well as many dealers. Great news! People need to realize, very few modern watches can be considered investments. Most are are volatile are crypto. The true cause of the crash is that the prices were artificially inflated by dealers. Most were dealer to dealer trades with but marked as sold at some stupid number, only to see the same watch relisted a week later lol
I just picked up a GMT Batman at slightly above retail & have a Submariner coming at a similar price. I never would’ve spent the prices at the peak of the market.
Prices are still crazy! I for one do not believe the "correction" is over as of yet. Good luck, God Bless
Brilliant video, very informative. Sorry for those that paid the crazy prices and have now lost all the value. It's the same with the housing market.
You should get the patek in rose gold, suits you very well😁
A correction in prices are always a good thing😉what's up with the sunglasses indoors michael😊
Doesn’t matter If you are rich or not. No watch in the world should have a pricetag of more then 30K. If you have diamonds max. 50K. But stainless steel watches over the 10K!? People with class and style never pay that amount of money for stainless steel. At the end, it’s just a watch.
When he said feel for the guy who paid 320k, and the other fella said who new who new. Not him directly but plenty of grey market dealers said you will never lose I will get your money back or make on it, not at any point did they say it could drop btw 120k. If they did they might not have paid 275k over retail.
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we haven't seen the worst yet.
and i wouldn't be surprised to see these watches selling below retail in the near future.
thanks Michael. you're da man.
I appreciate your inclusion of the fundamental economic forces driving this current market. The biggest risk I see for AP is the failure to bring in new customers because of supply shortages and waiting lists. I recently bought a luxury sports watch and wanted to include the Oyster Perpetual on my short list. The local AD had no inventory to show but plenty of Omega, Breitling, and AP watches. I bought a Seamaster Diver 300 and am very happy with my purchase. Watching your videos has helped me become a more educated consumer and appreciate the many brands and product options out there
Glad I sold my blue face sky a few months back at 29k, but I do miss it. Trying to get another one with jubilee band this time from my AD
Love your your TH-cam channel ! Learned and been inspired of your content! Keep it up!
I get what Rolex is doing but I do question how long they can continue. It's like Debeers and diamonds. They've got tons of diamonds in inventory but they limit the supply so the price stays high. Particularly with the market being the way it is Rolex doesn't want to release a large number of watches to the market as it would only further lower the market so they limit the supply and help maintain their price. Also the limited supply helps maintain the desirability of a Rolex (at least so far.) Will it remain that way forever? No one knows.
If you can buy retail from Rolex/AP/Patek, you will generally maintain value or have appreciation over time. If you’re buying over retail price there is no historical precedent to say they will hold value or go up. All of this 3x or 4x retail prices were ridiculous
Always great to get a good, informative dose of luxury watch news from our team Producer Michael and Adam 🤝
The GMT Master II, Batman, oyster bracelet, is still double the price on Jaztime. No buy for me. I don't care how long it takes, I'm not paying over retail. If I never get it, oh well.
It won't be long before dealers are trying to offload for much less. One of those guys looks like he's already been scalped by whoever he's leveraged to. 😂🤣😂🤣😂
The gold diggers Will all fall down......
You don’t know what your on about, watch Roman sharf and his grey market, and tell me that there’s a crash
@@acac1982 its allready happening.... Not that fast yet but Just Wait....... Just wait
@@pleun315 Great reset
@@acac1982 yessss finally back to normal 🙏
The Guy on the left looks worried 😟
One of my favorite watch lovers he loves watch same like me big fan of watch but the diferance is that michael is rich he can buy any watch that he dreams, but I'm not that rich that i can afford to buy so expensive watch but i really really like to watch that kind of video on luxury watch.just of watching that kind of video already make me happy and got 50% of my dreams for watch ⌚️ achieve
Watches have so much more room to fall it’s scary especially when home prices begin to severally decline no one in their right mind will be looking to buy a hunk of metal when they could scoop up cheap real estate
50% off of a crazy price is still a stupid price... So you saying that I can get a SUB for 18K when new is 9 but before was 22K ? WOW AMAZIIIING..... and what is this continus clicking sound on the video Adam ?
Sweet spot my backside, we are no where near the bottom these guy's need to realize most of these watches will be available in the AD'S very soon
so nice to see vadeem again!
I would love to have a Patek 5711. Just such a beautiful watch. Class all the way.
So basically, these guys bough into huge stock and now they are trying to cut their loss, prior to end of 2022. imminent recession?
Told you the Tulips were due to sprout. Rolex Daytona Petrizzi 1995 to 1996 is a cracking investment. Very short supply, chemical error *like stamp collector errors, going up up up. Probably double in 24 months. But anything NOT in very short supply, or able to be made, nope. Going down, down, down. Especially the plastic crap.
I’m a fan of those who are a fan of watches and even mansions, hence why I’m forever a supporter of this channel, because I love the lifestyle and possibilities, but come on now lol if something cost 30 K and it went up to 250 K and now it’s at 150… that’s not a correction 🤣 this is why I love producer Michael because he genuinely loves watches, but to all the hustlers and scammers out there, good for you!! I hope the market continues to crash and collapses. We have to love and be honest and fair with one another. But $100,000’s above what it cost to make and pay those who made it is crazy!! That’s like me renting my house out for 3200 when my mortgage is only 1,200 Lol God would be soo disappointed. 🤣 which is why I’m trying to rent it out for 1700 🤣 anyone interested?
yessuhh 🤚
Its still going to go down the stores have brand new ones they can't sell for retail prices and people still think they can get over market value all the flippers are trying to keep the prices up so they don't lose their asses like they should for driving it so high in first place but its well on way to crashing like it should time to sell your fancy cars to the market going to crash to
michael: "i feel bad for the guy who bought it at 320 right?
Eddie: who knew, who knew?
apparently michael knew. because hes been questioning the meteoric rise on the prices since the beginning and always said its unsustainable. But Its in the best interests of any salesmen to inflate the idea of value which translates to cost so they can make more money. Sure, they may not dictate the costs directly because value is subjective and ultimately based on what someone is willing to pay. But they definitely exacerbated the huge jump/inflation on watches. Just like realestate agents do with houses. After you factor in supply and demand and comps, you can then set whatever price you think u can sell it for.
This is a great lesson. I've made 50% in 3 months ($2M), and I've also lost 50% in 3 months while investing on the same principles. It's an educated gambling game
To assemble lincoln SUV costs around $5000 and they sell it for 35k roughly; used rolex has a decent price, you can buy with the certificate depending of the model, 5-8k and more..nothing wrong to be a second owner of some Rolex, you wear it and you can keep or resell it, in europe the watch expert says yes breitling is the better watch but Rolex will always keep the interest and price on the market. Also, i have nothing against the good dupes, we can not afford just everything to have in this life.
Well that was interesting, always great informative content on your channel Producer Michael and thats why we are all here :)
Adam you show the most beautiful watches I have ever seen. I love watching you and Adam. Thanks for all of your videos,!!
The reason a Rolex is selling at such high mark-ups over list is because - even though Rolex produces 800k+ watches per annum - demand still exceeds supply. The RRP is below the market equilibrium and the used market is finding the equilibrium (albeit a fluctuating one).
Rolex back to rrp for most models in 6-12 months.
Normality returning
I’m with Michael regarding the crypto collapse. After this collapse even the mugs will be wary of something built solely on ‘confidence’ with no intrinsic value and I never see it recovering. Once bitten, twice shy!
Michael is quite unique himself
Loving the shirt Micharl. Are they for sale on your website?
As a watch connoisseur. I can only watch and admire these watches. But in the end these gorgeous hand crafted with care watches will always be expensive. Still an excellent deal though. Great video and awesome presentation.
Expensive, yes. But what are they worth? The retail price by itself is already inflated and the AD’s as well as manufacturer make a handsome profit. Paying grey market prices is nuts.
It's about time the market corrected
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They are holding pieces so they can adjust the pricing when the markets turns around.
Yes, watches are same like crypt-o currency $$$, same for classic cars and furniture and yachts, I personally would not buy a 100 000$ watch if it would not slow down the time.TH
Prices should be less than retail, my first rolex cost £3000 new, sold for £2000 a few years later. 300% over retail AFTER a fall is still crazy. Tulips.
agree
Do not listen to grey market dealers about investment ever.
Prices will continue to drop for another 2-3 years. Soon you will be able to get into AD and buy want you want without humiliting waiting lists.
I think this is the best time to pull the trigger and get a Rolex Pepsi! ❤️
What’s the point of asking watch salesmen the status of the watch market? Any conflict of interest? 😂 I mean look at 9:26, what is he going to say? “Don’t buy now”? 😂
Late last year & early this year when market was still very hot… I commented that the bubble will eventually burst … just like stock, bond, housing, crypto , etc… of course many ppl didn’t agree with that view back then… Many ppl said high prices are here to stay…
Now I’m going to say that watch market is gonna drop further… a lot more room to go… the watch dealers say market is stabilising n unlikely to go down…I beg to differ…
When inflation is high, Fed increases rates and removes liquidity from the market via QT. Those who over leveraged find themselves in trouble. Many will be forced to sell whatever assets they have on hand… stocks, property, watches, crypto etc. when there are more ppl doing this, asset prices going down …
Those dealers who bought inventory at high price and refuse to let go now, thinking market will go up soon, will be going down the drain.
Hi Michael, if I purchase form ur bouquet do you ship to singapore? Pls advise.
is it worth going to Tokyo to buy a Patek Phillipe considering the US Customs, taxes, and fees?
Bought all my watches from the AD at MSRP.
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3:51 what’s up with the date window..?
Can you ask them next time if I should wait with buying my grail watch, Casio F-91W, or are the prices not going down any further?