Nelo's new single scull could be a fast design
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2024
- At the spring training camp Vienna I had the chance to meet Pete Spivey, who happens to be the Austrian rep for Nelo rowing boats.
I knew that Nelo is a big company and I knew that they were about to make their mark in rowing. In this video, I go through some of the remarkable features of this 75kg Nelo single scull.
For disclosure: As of this date, I am not associated with Nelo in anyway. I just like their design.
The rowing and kayak videos were filmed playing from youtube, and are available here:
• Rio Replay: Men's Sing...
• Rio Replay: Men's Kaya...
my personal website: www.aramtraining.com - กีฬา
I had the chance to row the Nelo several times. Really great. I never rowed a boat faster than this one. Seriously considering buying one. I was positively surprised about the stability given the extremly slim shape of the boat. Try to row one if you have the chance.
Heimo Hinterer thanks for your support Heimo.
They'd sell more if it was painted yellow ;)
Always good to see more competition for the big manufacturers. The difficulty is breaking through, especially into crew boats.
There are plenty of singles from all kinds of manufacturers racing, but at the big clubs almost every crew boat is an Empacher or Filippi, with the odd Hudson here and there (in the UK anyway).
The good thing about Nelo is that there is a wide variety of colors to choose from and the gel coat finish can be easily repaired with the correct colour supplied by Nelo so it blends in nicely.....
Yes but they haven't got black as a colour which you can choose 😭
Aram is not only the worlds leading independent professional coach but he also represents a new wave of innovation in rowing. Too long has our sport been confined by tradition and convention and it is time that we look with fresh eyes, not being afraid of trying new ideas. Aram's depth of understanding, open-mind and generous heart represents a significant new direction for our sport.
Nothing about Aram...but how many other coaches in the world do you know? And how many of them have a youtube channel?
I think there were lots of innovations in rowing. At least many have been tried. My guess is, that it makes not so much of a difference because rowing depends on the antropomorphy of the rower. There are many different rowing styles. Different rowers prefer different boats. Rowing is unique because of the way it is: moving your bodywaight against the movement of the boat. For me it would be okay if FISA will allow sliding riggers but I also like the way it is now. It is very complicated to understand the movement of rowing and find a good technique. Maybe I will never be able to coach the "best" technique but it is shure a lot of fun to experiment and try to work out a good approach for every athlete.
What do you make of the trend to shorter boats in the last few seasons? The have to have much more bouncing and not very much of a stady motion. Would it not be more of an advantage to use a long boat for distance of 2k? There are so many different oppinions in rowing and what makes a boat fast. It is very interesting to learn about different approaches :)
Without doubt Aram is a fantastic analytical coach. He understands how to get an athlete to maximize body position to generate the most efficient stroke......
In terms of boat design, Nelo are short, the shape of the bow reduces bouncing, the boat keeps acceleration longer. Breaking the hydraulic barrier that all other designs do not do is the first aspect of the Nelo, the Next is the lift it generates as you finish the stroke......this is a boat for anyone wishing to embrace the future......it’s basically really nice to row and it is quick.
I got to row the Nelo single and it was super smooth. I think it would be extremely helpful in head racing but I think a lighter boat like a fluidesign is still better (at least for me) for 2 km races.
Flat bottom? Didn't George Pocock do that about a century ago for stability as Seattle area can get pretty rough?
It's great to see Nelo building boats because they're bringing other experiences to design.
Nice skiff, in Holland I’ve tried 2 times a Nelo. Glide-feelings is really nice.
:) you can trade in your Carl Douglas
I row um a Nelo double and its really good
I'm surprised that not once in your videos I've heard of Wintech Racing. I believe these boats are always underrated while this brand is all about winning technology and winning performance: according to Valery Klechnev, they're the fastest boats on the water, then they're the best built. They have a perfect drainage system that drains the water contained inside effectively after each stroke and they are also the stiffest (from bow to stern, an Empacher 8 would bend the 30mm while a Wintech would bend 7mm). Wintech Racing has categories adapted to all rowers and at reasonable prices. The brand also has a silver medal at the Olympics (for only 0.01 seconds to the gold!). I've always competed in these boats and felt better than other brands I've raced in, for the good and only reason that these cockpits are easy to row and don't sink in wavy/windy conditions (remember the female boat race a few years back? On the Thames? With hellish forecast? A Hudson boat they had was it not? Nobody thought their boat would stay afloat).
Anyway, I should remind everyone that it isn't the boat that makes the rower, but the rower makes the boat.
I have also not talked about Weitenauer, Stämpfli, Schellenbacher, Ave, Empacher, Resolute, Kashper, Hudson, and so on.
A brand new wintech is stiffer than a new empacher maby (even though I would highly doubt even that) but after three years they feel like a wet bread in the water. With our Cobra double you can even see the boat bending if the waves are high enough. None of our wintechs survived over 8 years while we have empachers from the 90s that are in a usable state.
Thank you for the video. I have a comment on the lift (at 3:33) created by the flat of the bottom. The (hydrodynamic ) lift will be downward which can pull the boat down, increase the wetted surface area and create more friction. In that case, more lift more friction. Maybe this design is generating less lift downward when it is compared to other boats.
To generate lift upward to reduce friction, the boat should achieve very high speed, let's say 6.5m/s or the boat should be shorter than 6 m for a single sculler. The values were calculated by using Froude number>0.7.
Another additional drag might be caused by the flow separation due to a very flat bottom. But this is not certain without research.
Nevertheless, it seems a nice design and hopefully, it will be successful.
Serkan Turkmen thanks Serkan, interesting comments. A lot of very technically minded people have made analysis of the design. Some positive, some sceptical. It is really just a boat that has been designed and tested to reduce the deceleration during recovery, it does work so if you get a chance to try one then you can see if Nelo got it right. Thanks for the good wishes. Regards Pete.
Excellent point. Hydrodynamic lift will be in the opposite direction , i.e. downwards.
Tout comme toi Aram je suis impressionné par la créativité de cette firme de ... kayak, je suis très impatient de l'essayer et peut être de l'acheter.
Merci beaucoup Bony!
Literally I thought this guy's name was pizza baby and I seriously thought that was a cool name
I have a video request/idea that should not take too much time to produce:
Could you make a slow motion video of the ideal rowing stroke on water? Like 10 strokes by one of your athletes filmed from the side (and maybe different angles as well). Many of the videos that are available on youtube are filmed at normal speed and when slowed down the framerate and quality drops dramatically. Thus, they are hardly usable for teaching.
I am a big fan of yours! Keep doing what you do!!
The Tomas lange Shoes are the best schoes I ever Tried because you have a verry god hold in them Even of they are much to big. Unlikely to the Nike shoes who Have a Bad closing mechanism. And they aren‘t expencive like Filippi or Empacher shoes.
interessting design, i really want to see this boat used in the world cups
Hans yes so do I. They will change things.
You can see. The LM1x from Portugal
I've seen Thomas Lange for about hundred times because he's in our club and he's rowing a win tech. But I wish he would row a nelo.
This is what we need😭,fishing on a lake. We spend an hour rowing just to reach our fishing spot😭unfotunately we can't afford this kind of boat.
Molto interessante. Sarebbe uno scafo più planante che dislocante. Mi piacerebbe moltissimo provarlo!!!!
I'd need sponsons to stay upright. I paddle a 19' x 21" kayak. I'd buy one if I thought I could stay upright.
What is the wetted surface area as compared to a more traditional hull?
The same
gavin hassett thats a really interesting question. What I can say without doubt is that it is absolutely critical to row in a boat that matches your weight category to ensure the boat sits in the water at the correct buoyancy level which directly correlates to wetted surface area and the length of the boat in the water. However evidence suggests that it’s not wetted area but plumb line that is critical to resistance. A plumb line ( length in water) should be short as possible. The Nelo is a short boat so plumb line is shorter. But also the boundary layer that the boat breaks is a constant length whereas conventional boats tend to lift out as you approach the catch, therefore increasing and decreasing the boundary layer and length of plumb line. The hull shape of the Nelo stabilizes resistance, decreases deceleration and makes for a very comfortable fast ride. It’s best to try one out and see for yourself if you get the opportunity.
@@mondseerc1 if you should ever make it to the west coast of Canada, i would be glad to give it a go, Cheers
Nice boats, had a few test rows in one using a power meter in order to most fairly compare between brands - generally found it was comparable to the fluidesign I had at the time doing 1k pieces in the same time at the same rate - the wintech cobra I have now was faster than both
The WInTech Cobra is actually 2-3 seconds slower per 500 than a Fluidesign , I have tested both throughly as I worked for both companies. I even rowed my Fluidesign while working for WinTech. The Cobra rigger flexes too much actually changing pitch during the stroke. The compartment is small and shallow while the shell is not very durable, vulnerable to easy chips and dings from normal usage.
The initial Nelo design is a bit clunky and bounces too much in the water when at rate.
Never compare 75 kg boats with 90 kg boats.
Would love to hear what your athletes think if they have the chance to try one out.
You can try out boats in several countries already (Portugal, Austria, Croatia, UK, France, South Africa, USA-Florida, Germany, Netherlands, just ask through the nelorowing.eu website) In the Netherlands you can try out in Utrecht: www.eurow.eu/boten/nelo-rowing.html
You can also make use of the Nelo Rowing Training Centre: for €75 per day you can stay in that centre, make use of the fitness room, including meals, and boat: www.eurow.eu/en/boats/nelo-rowing/nelo-training-centre-34.html
adrian johnson i am obviously biased but Jakob who Features in some of Arams videos loved it. He was the only one to try it at the camp. However Nelo are lending Aram a selection of boats for his Summer training camp. We will get more feedback then.....Also we are organizing the boat rental for EUROW at Ottensheim at end of July. In a few weeks we will finalize the details....probably €25 per seat....so keep an eye out on the worldrowing.com site......then we are at world champs and then World Masters in Hungary.....all the best.
We tried one in California for a few days. Seems very set and stable at steady state, but appears to lose some run between strokes. However, at high rates it seemed very responsive, but with a definite pronounced rocker. We had the smaller fin installed and the scullers all said it was difficult to keep the boat running straight. Would like to have had it for longer and would like to do some speed trials with it. The reverse tracks appear to have significantly more drag/friction than conventional tracks and wheels. It would be a good idea to have height graduations marked on the pins, making the height adjustment/differential on each side more precise.
leanderian it’s designed to have less rocker than the Italian or German boats. The bow is supposed to be in the water at all times but I have noticed that rigger position is critical to achieve this depending on your size and weight.....like you say a little more time to test is a good idea. The riggers are level so it’s a very easy visual indicator of the level for rigger height....anything from 10 to 20mm is normal depending on your hand positions.
You get the most out of the design the faster you go. So at slow speeds and low rate the boat will obviously slow down the same as other boats. You just get a longer water line and a cutting bow to enhance speed.
Really interesting vlog. Would have liked an idea of price range.
Phil Neale hi Phil this boat is €7500 and that includes boat bag, water bottle and holder, tool kit, fins, VAT and delivery in Europe. Go to nelorowing.com to check out the designs you can have. Regards Pete.
Phil Neale Take out a bank loan
0:12 last name reveal!
The boat looks nice, but make it like mat black or something, so it looks like more classy
top dog you can have it in black and it does look very classy indeed. Not advisable in hot climates due to heat absorption and delamination. Many different colors and designs are available. Gel Coat finish.
Very interesting and promising indeed , but all this years why fillipi and embacher didn't came out with a design like this?
They try to produce the most efficient boats so I believe they know what they are doing.
I would like to try this new design but made from the most common companies fillipi or embacher which they are use the best materials and you know that if you get a boat from them now , you will have it for many many many years.
Hm. I have a bit of a different impression. But this is just an opinion.
Just reflecting on the design and innovation progression of other sports, rowing seems in the dark ages. So much of what we do is simply based on what we have always done - not upon research or science regardless of what the webpages tell you. This negative feedback loop is caused by many factors: the relatively small market place forces producers to make conservative development decisions. In addition, the small number of World Cup regatta's has created a culture of playing it safe - with so much a stake there is too much to risk in taking innovation to the start line. Nobody ever got fired for buying an empacher!
The traditional rowing boat builders are very traditional and/or copy each other. Nelo has quite some understanding about boat forms. They are the world leader in canoe and kajak. Nelo is not bothered by what a rowing boat "should look like" and comes up with innovative solutions.
From another site th-cam.com/video/XsPU7dl5JpQ/w-d-xo.html
"The Nelo hull bounces too much, it takes so much more effort and even more rate to keep the bow above water and the boat going forward. This is not even the faster of the Graves family pecking order easily winning over Mendes."
"The RSR thread makes the point that a conventional flared bow cross-section increases buoyancy the further the bow dips into the water, providing a correcting lift of the bows. The Nelo inward sloping shape doesn't. Ie once the bows are going down, that's it."
rowingillustrated.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8710
The design is patented for rowing boats and Kajaks. They can't use this design for rowing boats without paying for the rights
It would look a lot better if it had a full carbon interior. The way they make it now it just looks like a tupperware.. also the oarlock mounts look terrible
Whats wrong with the oarlock mounts? Better looking than some crappy wintech wielding jobs I've seen.
There are many different designs and colours available. You must be careful in the hot sun with full carbon interiors and any dark colour.
The boats are full carbon, but black boats do get hot in the sun and the heat will destroy them in the end. At this moment I am repairing several delaminations in a full carbon interior of a C86 Empacher of only 3 years old
@@RobHeeres I guess hot sun is not good for all colors/materials in the long run. with a protective cover (when not rowing) you are on the safe side.
storkstork light colors for hot countries is the general rule. Black does look very cool but has its downside unfortunately. It’s also important with boats like this that have gelcoat finish that they are kept away from moisture when stored. So that’s why they come with a breathable cover that fits like a glove.....like any high quality boat, being aware of the dangers of the sun and moisture is incredibly important.
I’m very skeptical..
Jean-pierre Izart just try one if you get a chance. It’s surprising how different it feels.🚣🏻♀️🚣🏻♀️
c'est sur que ce n'est pas par la France que l'innovation arrivera malheureusement. Que ce soit d'un point de vue technique ou d'une nouvelle manière de penser.
Row in one
@@maillardolivier4885 My French is a bit rusty, Not accepting new development is not typical French. Rowers want to be safe and choose for the old boats. It will take some time. Nelo started with canoes in 1978
His boats got 4 medals in Sydney
And that number grew to 27! in Rio
Nelo is now world leader in canoe/kajak and has now quite some understanding about boat forms, where development in rowing stood still.
Nelo started with rowing boats in 2016. It will take some time for rowers to accept new things
Rob Heeres it's just that compared to the different returns I got, nobody told me that the hull was fast.. if nelo wants to prove that his shells are fast, he must compare them to other boats with identical conditions similar to different accelerations in a rowing boat.
flat hulls are easier to sit up.................AND RELAX
What about side wind?
That single is so thin
Not "could be", the Nelo is a very fast hull! 2x SA Champ titles in two consecutive years.
facebook.com/rippledev/videos/905195229620741/
The hull has similar wetted surface to a traditional shells however with extensive input from a leading Olympic championship design team means the hull is stabilized through the stroke cycle to remain as level as possible. This reduces drag and a consistent LWL with a cutting bow equates to one very fast shell!
Pretty close early dreadnoughts of 1914.
Stiffness is king in kayka & racing shells.
It's time to step away from the traditional design and production.
You can get rid off the bouning but that last real revolution was forbidden by fisa when Kolbe won in Duisburg 1983 the single with a perfect shell motion in the water. Beautiful.
Let's hope there will be more pretty different shapes snd designs to get away from the evolutionary approach K....
If someone develops a propably complete different shaped single like this or far more different and the next world champs rows that boat at his win then the whole rowing world will be upaide down.
It's time to get ridd off the old traditions in boat design. The progress is far too slow.
No complains - just have a look in formula 1 design evolution that is mostly aerodynamic efficiency .... and rowing is even far more relying on efficiency due to higher resistance factor of water. There must be far more potential than shown in the previous evolution you can buy at any regatta.
Ot simpky try a slider again to ask the fisa how long they will close the doors for progress. The slider was far better for body health ...
It's time - cause olympic rowing is simply dying if there is not far more progress than shown in the last 4 decades... Sadly to see but that is the reality which you can cleary see if you look at coastal races, le mans start and so on. There is nearly no surprise in a rowing event compared to Biathlon or Formula 1.
Even track and field is dying compared to carl lewis era.... due to missing surprise or a simpke question if an early leader will dy ... like Abagnale brothers anno 1992 .
The reason for the rules is to make rowing about the athlete and not who can afford the most expensive equipment. Do we really want a sport like cycling where you can go a lot faster if you are prepared to spend huge amounts of money on the latest technology?
Empacher 1x about €12580 including VAT
and Nelo1x ….. €7500 including VAT
@@Rover200Power I think the Material in Cycling is not more expensive than in rowing. At least in UCI rules (Tour de France for example) your material must be available to the public, as far as I know. A good road cyling bike wouldcost you between 8000 and 15 000 Euros maybe? It is about the same as a skiff. The difference is the popularity of the sports and the money that you can make with it. Almost every person wants to have a new carbon bilke every few years. In rowing? Not so much. Only hardcore rowers will buy der own boats.
And yes, my opinion is like yours. I want the athlete to be in the middle of the sport. You should have different options, to suit different rowing styles and body shapes, but that is already possible right know.
Thing about the Nelo is that it is €7500 and very very good value and an innovative design.
I was unclear about the construction of this boat. It looks like it might be some sort of injection moulded poly type construction.
My prejudice because I do like a more traditional type but this looks like a bath toy.