The only ope in hades of preventing the sun from stripping Mars of its snazzy new atmosphere would be to somehow generate a magnetic field. On a much smaller scale, artificial magnetic fields would make the science fiction style domed cities viable, since we wouldn't have to be immured underground.
lets talk about is it possible to use starlifting or the energy of the star to tractor a planets spin maybe using asteriod or even other planets to then back spin it to make a molten core and also i think a molten core is very effcient if your goal is to make a magnetosphere that would be very hard to terrorize or tamper with
@@charliemaynard2554 yea dude does have one if you look at his early work its much more pronounced he has since underd gone speech threapy after his YT carreer took off but imo i prefer his original speech
A supraconductor ring ON the planet, along the equator, with 10 or 12 nucléar plants (one gigawatt each), is enough energy to build up a magnetic field similar to the one on earth in less than 12 years. We need to use the core of mars to spend much less energy.
@@luciendardaraurore7433 I'm a bit confused maybe. If a current in a superconductor requires zero volts to keep it going and power = volts x amps that means multiplying a very great amps current by zero which would get zero watts of power. It seems to me that it would only require volts to get the current going then none after that, Of-course if the planets temperature was at a level comfortable to humans then the superconductors with todays technology would need refrigeration which would need a lot of power so that is maybe what your saying.
I never thought I'd see the aurora borealis on Mars. That's what you get when you make a magnetosphere. They made their own clouds. Brings to mind the people who built the great Gothic cathedrals, knowing they'd be long dead before the work was finished, trusting that their great-grandchildren would lay the final stones. We've lost that kind of generational thinking on Earth. Here, you see it in everything they do.
My DnD world is 30k years in the future, and the Elves are the humans that evolved on Mars before they destroyed it and had to flee back to earth. I've wanted to justify them making a magnetosphere but I just hand waved the "how." Thanks Issac for making my DnD world a little more accurate lol
They trap an massive iron elemental lord in the planets core which is forced to generate the magnetic field but the wards holding it in place are waning in power.
I tried DnD once as i loved the idea of disappearing in to a fantasy world. So i joined a club. The problem is the other members were very cliquey and impatient with a beginner. I did my due diligence and read as many of Gary Gygax's books as possible but as a new player I was still very inexperienced and 'dense' when it game to playing the game. Can you recommend any groups that play and record their sessions for TH-cam as I hope to try again someday ? Thanks in advance for any replies or suggestions:) Love Light and Peace everyone.
@@twt3716 The adventure zone is pretty good at telling a story and being light in rules. th-cam.com/video/V5sK5QW6FbE/w-d-xo.html My advice for DnD is ignore all the dice and play the game. A good DM will tell you what to roll for your first few sessions. The rules will come over time, a fun group is why people play DnD.
@@derp-tiny Thank you very much for taking the time to reply to me. I will take your advice. Once again, thank you very much :) Have yourself a glorious evening
@snugglepig now this is just an assumption but I’m assuming that the cliquey group places lots of importance on the mechanics and base lore of the game, and in my experience the main big dnd media like the adventure zone and others are a bit looser on things like the mechanics and rigid accuracy, instead focusing more on their story and having a good time. If you can’t find anything good enough, if all else fails you could theoretically sit in on a session with that/your group without playing yourself, just observing them to familiarize yourself with the game and their play style. Depending on other factors I might suggest trying to find a different group to play with, but that isn’t always possible to do in these situations.
this episode is a good reminder of how grounded you are in reality compared to a lot of other people that discuss these topics and I very much appreciate it. :)
Exactly, it would be more practical to build some cities on Mars and lace it with electromagnetic material to give it a artificial magnetic field to protect them
@@isaacarthurSFIA Hows about a second sun?, surely a million nuclear bombs would be enough on Jupiter. Ofcorse we have to stay away from europa once it's done 🙂
I could see a cylindrical space habitat having equipment at its ends for capturing charged particles that get drawn into its magnetic field. If they're going to spiral into the ends of the magnetic field anyway, might as well bottle them as supplemental materials for making stuff instead of just wearing away at the armour.
When moving planets and galaxies is the norm on this channel, putting a magnetosphere on a planet is a like a Tuesday event. Just plain and boring to the engineer at hand haha
I'm sure there are people on modern day Earth who genuinely enjoy building the exact same cookie cutter two-story house for the 100th time, maybe with a minor incremental improvement or two. To each their own, as they say
"If you shipped in and built your oceans and sky, then you probably do not feel the sky's the limit on your ambitions and undertakings. " -27:57 Very nice quote!
Thank you for making it clear early on that Magnetospheres are technically optional on human timescales since the main indicators of atmosphere is Volcanism with how slow the atmosphere loss is. This is one of those misunderstood concepts that people seemed to have picked up somewhere and then just parrot without thinking, and I've spent many hours commenting on this bringing up the escape mechanisms and timescales involved in the past with no real discussion. One thing useful in future videos is that the UV Ionization/Solar Wind charged particle stripping combination may not even exist on red dwarf stars, because they hardly radiate any UV light, resulting in less charged particles for the Red Dwarf's Solar Wind to strip, making Magnetospheres far less necessary there.
I consider myself scientifically literate and try to keep abreast with the latest scientific information in areas of interest to myself and I always learn something new when I come to Isaac’s channel. Whether it’s from Isaac or the incredibly knowledgeable fans in the comment section his channel consistently provides new and interesting information, it’s so cool!
@@christopherhughes2211 Here's a good article in more layman's terms on planetary atmosphere loss: geosci.uchicago.edu/~kite/doc/Catling2009.pdf It's one step below an actual technical article, so bridging the gap between pop sci and actual research articles.
@@CFCbluemofia but red dwarves are more active and often have violent flares of charged particles, so probably no. I'm sure there might be stable ones, but they'd be in the minority compared to what we've observed. Also, to be in the habitable zone a planet would have to be MUCH closer, which means more chances of direct hits from CMEs.
One of the neater proposals I've seen for a Mars magnetosphere involved constantly ionizing particles off Phobos to create a plasma torus around Mars. Unsure if that would be better or worse than a L1 magnetic shield, but still neat!
That's the entire centerpiece of Bamford's paper, i'm surprised Issac mentioned the paper but not the plasma torus. Bamford specialises in plasma physics, and also has some interesting papers on trapping plasma from the solar wind to enhance active shielding for spacecraft, which she links to the natural phenomenon of lunar swirls.
Ah welcome friend! Welcome to the channel that is full of wonder and where moving whole solar systems is an "every other Tuesday". Moving whole galaxies is an "once a month event". All while you realize every alien invasion movie ever is so vastly underpowered it's not even funny how quickly we'd lose. Hope you enjoy your stay and remember! "If brute force isn't working you're not using enough!"
I cant hear the term Shkadov Thruster without giggling. Sounds like something that used to occasionally happen to mall Santas with nervous kids. Yes I know what it is but I'm a child. Love the channel, gives me hope for humans like me. Thanks Isaac and Crew😁
I like the fact how gravity of mars makes it nice candidate for real sturdy dome design Can make some with 10m thick shell glass, weight of it creates enough pressure that generated air will be like on earth, possible to have giant thick heavy dome over the head supported only by sea level air pressure
What a fascinating in-depth look at magnetospheres, and the potential for creating them! Oh, and the fact that we would have a really long time to figure it out on Mars, if we got the atmosphere built up. I've seldom seen it mentioned on other channels... though I seem to remember Anton (Petrov) and Kyle (Hill) both saying something quite similar, before.
Great episode. It really does raise the question of what a galaxy-wide gardening effort might actually look like. By this point I'm sold on cozy habitats rather than fussing with planets, but even if they're only being worked on as a hobby, there's a lot more factors to consider than I originally thought.
I absolutely loved this video. It reminded me of some of your very first videos from way back when your channel was still largely unknown. I've said this several times, but I'll say it again: thank you so much for giving us such great quality and interesting videos.
This was a very intriguing, in-depth view of how to Create a Magnetosphere. You are really making History with these videos you make. On Mars, a Statue should be erected of you! 😉
@@isaacarthurSFIA Fine by me. Musk and his organization have done more to transport humans to space than NASA has in half a generation. It's time to let the space industry develop like the airlines did 100 years ago.
Thanks for the video, not much people talk about the magnetoshpere for Mars, more people need to talk about this when they talk about terraforming Mars. ❤💯
For Mars to look like Earth you would have to give it a Moon. The gravitational force would cause the core of Mars to warm, creating a magnetic field, protecting the planet's atmosphere.
then why doesn't the moon itself have a magnetic field? it's not that simple dude, IO is the most vulcanically active body in the solar system and orbits the biggest planet if having a molten core were enough then Io would be the place to expect a magnetic field, and it doesn't. its not just: if moon then magnetic field, else dead planet
You know, Mr Arthur, I was totally expecting you to explain how the 'Use nukes to restart the core' method from "The Core" can actually work. Not disappointed though.
The funny thing is that while you assume an advanced civilization controls so much energy they don't care I always assume the opposite. My definition of a mature/advanced technology is that it does the most work possible while using the LEAST energy, no matter how much energy might be available. Such a civilization would always be trying to work with entropy to make the universe do as much work for them as possible, and they'd avoid endless fights against it even if they had plenty of energy to spare.
I personally think that while giving Mars a magnetosphere would definitely be cool, a GUNNM-style (minus the weird biotech-stuff) would just be more realistic. Basically just turn the entire surface into 1 big semi-contiguous "dome".
@@Feroce depends on how the dome is made. I'm thinking less 'big solid dome', and more 'foam/membrane-aerogel-like covering'. Also, my IRL "specialties" are biology and linguistics, so I might just be completely wrong in some of my assumptions here.
@@Feroce I entered a game dev contest like probably 7 years ago, had a month to make a game about an hour in length. My game was set on Mars with a dome built over it like that (there are in-world reason why), the inciting incident of the story was maintenance failing and a section breaking off and falling to the planet.
I Really Miss Your Old Longer Videos That Delved Into The Technology, Materials, The Crazy Math And Was Much More Niche I Like These Short Overviews . But You Did The Hard Science Long Form Better Than Anyone On This Site
I wonder if enlarging Phobos would not be cheaper. With a larger moon, we could resurrect the magnetosphere of March. The gravitational friction between the two bodies would heat the core of Mars. Wouldn't it be cheaper to tow meteorites from the asteroid belt to Mars' orbit than to build a large nuclear power plant in orbit around Mars?
I know this is a bit late reply but for a Mars it would required at least a moon in the size range of Ceres or Iapetus. Another option would be Oberon, Titania. These moons could heat up the core and keep it fluid. The issue is we do no have currently the technology to move bodies in that size and there must be some studies how it will effect the other inner planets a new object. Venus also could have a moon in a size range of Callisto or Ganymede. The issue there is how the Venus could keep the moon and not dragged by the Sun. This is currently a scifi so maybe Isaac won't reply to it but these things could ensure both planets can have better chances to be habitable.
A question: Like most I look on the concept of terraforming as one where the plan is to permanently alter a planet in the image of Earth. To do that you need the requirements of long term stability, like a magnetosphere, not just do some window dressing. But given our seeming liking for disposable rather than repairable, might we look on terraforming the same way? If we have to power to transform a planet it may be more convenient to just keep doing it than bother with long term stability. "I've got my house, my children can build their own!" ie: If we could terraform Mars would we bother with the effort of a lasting solution if a convenient one would do for say 5k years?
Thing is once you've given it the atmosphere you need then you are looking at very minor additions on geologic timescales. So it's not much of an issue.
What if at some point every civilization makes a satellite swarm like starlink but with more functions like outward observation, communications, energy generation and electromagnetic shielding? This solution would be kind of a one for all solution for every planet
Dear Issac, I want my own personal magnetsophere. Maybe put it on a drone, and it can hover above my head. But I can not think of a good reason to do this. Can you help? Thanks
I still like the idea of using a man made black hole. Drop one into the core to orbit its center of mass and churn the contents to reactivate plate tectonics. Is it overkill? Yes, but its a solution that requires no maintenance and can last for millenia while surviving wars and carastrophe
A deflector tracking Mars' L1 point would be helpful to protect the atmosphere of a terraformed Mars. An L1 deflector for Earth would reduce the force of the Van Allen Belts, which would make operating in Earth orbit safer fr humans and machinery. Another example of how terraforming other worlds could be helpful in terraforming Earth.
I had a design for a magnetosheath and then 6 months after I had drawn it up I saw a NASA press release unveiling almost exactly what I had designed lol
I thought so, a few months back on Anton's channel I suggested missing magnetic field isn't THAT bad to a planet, as we have a couple of moons and a planet on our solar system with practically no magnetic field, but still have atmospheres. Didn't know any numbers though. Interesting episode!
I admit that I've been negligent in listening to you for the past few months. Still, when I do listen I enjoy the effort you put in. Thanks from a years-long subscriber.
It all depends on how much power is available. On a budget, use carefully placed solar shields If not, stellar mining and nucleosynthesis of gigatons of transuranics then drop it all to the martian core.
What about transducers capable of taking advantage of the Earths mechanical energy and turning it into electrical energy? Say maybe a network of them on the equator? Doing some math, it seems like the shape best suited to achieve this coupling is, surprise surprise, a pyramidal shape, and the best materials naturally available for the task are, interestingly enough, granite because of its high quartz content, and sandstone as an insulator
Future Episode idea! the feasibility of building an orbital ring and using it as a superconductor network to transport solar energy around the world. Thus eliminating the "only when the sun shines" limitations of solar energy.
It would be a few years back now and not sure if it was an episode unto itself but he has touched on microwave beaming satellite to satellite and to the surface on the night side. Cant help more than that.
The main issue with solar is the massive material waste, same as wind, which is why environmentalists only advocate for nuclear. Well, environmentalists who care about the environment anyway.
Not really. The moon is nearly 400,000km away & the earth's magnetosphere peters out at barely 70,000km. Magnetic fields obey the inverse square distance law & stretching it that far is gunna leave you witha weak distorted megnetosphere that's not strong enough to protect anything.
This I think was the main problem with Elon saying 'we should have a plan B for nuclear armageddon'. There is no nuclear armageddon that could erase our magnetosphere.
Just a thought, but wouldn't bringing a sizeable enough moon to low enough orbit potentially restart the core "naturally"? And would be a forever solution too. Not a low energy solution, or fast, but something. The magnetospheres on some moons around gas giants in our solar system are pretty hefty after all, so just replicate that interaction. Works for Earth too..
@@HowlingWolf518 I'm still thinking the density differences between the layers might be enough to cause some rotational difference between the core and "the rest". Friction, energy, heat. And there you go. I assume the entire core isn't solid anyway. Also, The moon would probably have to be "ridiculously" low at least for the start of the pumping of energy into the core. And large enough.
I am current writing a sci-fi series about Humanity explore the Galaxy using reserve-engineered alien technology (acquired from their invaders in mid-21 century). Right now, I am having some difficulty writing about how Humanity could terraform planets like Mars and the Jovian Moons for human habitation. Is there any place that I can discuss with many people about this topic?
Funny thing when you replenish Mars' magnetosphere. The planet warms up - very fast in fact. You may have oceans again within less than a single generation. Not to mention massive atmosphere building (with comfortable temperatures soon after).
I'm surprised I didn't hear you mention adding mass to the moon to increase the churning affect on Mar's core similar to how our moon affects our core to slowly build a natural magnetosphere.
L1 Lagrange point halo-orbital rings. If you can create an orbital ring for any orbit then you can create an industrial platform at any L1. Generate a magnetic field. Dim or increase illumination coincident with the normal day length. Electromagnetically capture hydrogen for low-water worlds. At L2, create a permanent, low-temperature observatory (JWST and Isacc triggered this train of thought). Thought you may have implied this in this video, but I wanted to trigger thoughts with it explicitly. Thanks Isaac.
If you want to terraform mars you should start by delivering a large amount of cometary mater to the planet that would provide both water and gasses. Of course you'll get stuff like amonia and other things you might not want. However the right bacteria can help clean that up once atmospheric pressure and water are right
These long game theories are going to be silly to future aims I think. Nano swarms of AI directed robots will be able to build massive domed structures faster than we can imagine. With lush vegetation, animal and human life within. With warp drive advances, we’ll be able to pass mars easily in seconds and find earth like planets that we could conceivably live on with minimal terraforming.
I wonder how countries like Norway would recreate the aurora borealis (or australis), since I expect that the shield would disable it, and I just can't imagine those countries being okay with that without a replacement. also... do you then buy an aurora for your birthday? Or are they just trying to replicate the natural one? Will other places try it too? "See the Aurora over the Pyramids!" ?
I like the L1 mega magnet idea, and im glad im not the only one that sees a magnetosphere as doable ! ....... think i would go for the multi satellite "starlink" approach tho ? better coverage and if 1 in 20,000 satellites goes down......no real problem...........plus you get good internet ! :)
Technically, the average speed of atoms in our atmosphere is the speed of sound relative to pressure. But there are some at times that are completely motionless.
The reason Venus and Mars don't have a magnetosphere is because they lack a large moon like Earth. Earth's large moon's gravity helps the Earth's core spin as it orbits the Earth creating our magnetosphere.
Mars needs much more mass to keep atmosphere, and liquids for longer periods. Perhaps, all the asteroids could be directed at Mars, to increase it's mass. Then, it might be worth it to have magnetospheric generators. Thanks for the vid. :)
You need a deflector screen just as much as you need a magnetosphere. You plant a battery of radio transmitters in shallow graves in a straight line around the equator and transmit both high frequencies and low frequencies at the same time to block heavy radiation like protons and neutrons bombarding the surface of mars.
Could you drill ultra deep bore holes and melt the rock via fusion ignition? Once you have melted a sufficient amount of the core all you need is an orbital body to get the now molten core spinning again. I'd recommend taking an many asteroids as are moveable and creating a ring around Mars creating some tidal heating mechanism.
Maybe on a smaller scale, artificial magnetic fields could also be added to settlements on Mars. That way, we could build geodesic domes instead of bunkers.
They are very small. Our moon is a pretty big one compared to our planet. Those tidal forces that drive volcanism and tectonics and a spinning molten core rely on gravity, which is related to the mass of the object. Phobos and Deimos are too small to have much of an effect.
I think in order to keep Mars' core functioning it will need a significant real moon of its own. I really believe that the tug & pull interaction of Earth and our moon keeps our core functioning.
Sounded like the audio was sped up a tiny bit and i like it also congrats on beating the lisp, I'd totally forgotten the lisp rabbit disclaimer m, now you're clearly as
Mars with a star link with microwaves just going around cooking away may be able to restart the electric dynamo, of mars’ core, but that’s only a hypothesis. Just an idea.
Solar wind shield at Terran L1 is not a far future project. It is going to be a near future project to prevent hazards by coronal mass ejection like the Carrington Event. The civilization based on electronic circuits needs it today.
If you want to put your magnetosphere generation on an orbital ring, it doesn't need to be high-altitude to get enough sun. A low-altitude one that's still in darkness for half its length would still have more than enough exposed to the sun that you could power it from what lands on the day-side of the ring alone, with room to spare. Let's say it takes 4 GW for a magnetic field. If 1 m^2 of panels produces 250 W, then you need 16 million square metres of panels to generate enough power. If the angle to the sun cuts the average efficiency in half, that's 32 million square metres. If your ring is 40,000 km in circumference, then just putting a strip 2m wide around the ring would more than cover the magnetosphere's power requirements, and you're going to be making it much wider than a mere two metres, anyway.
Exactly how would stay in place a space station at L1 point of Mars, when would be pushed by solar wind, because it would have a enormous magnetic field big enough to shield whole Mars?
@Paul Bedford the issue is that engines will consume 1000 more energy than deflection field, so if your shield needs tens of GW, you need tens of TW to push against solar wind, certainly can be done but not a artificial magnetosfere is the hardest part to do, but whole apparatus necessary to keep it in place.
@@alandpost that isn't possible, if would be closer to the sun than L1 point would complet its orbit significant more faster than Mars, so wouldn't stay between planet and sun, and even if you find a way to keep it in that place, solar wind will push it into Mars direction, because it is basically a giant magnetic sail that catches each day thausen of tons of charged particle moving with a speed between 500 and 2000 of km/s.
Re-heating the core. Hm from when in known physics molten metal can produce magnetic field? I think we dont really understand what is really happening inside the Earth. Noone was ever there.
Here's that Martian Magnetosphere paper by R.A. Bamford:
arxiv.org/abs/2111.06887
The only ope in hades of preventing the sun from stripping Mars of its snazzy new atmosphere would be to somehow generate a magnetic field. On a much smaller scale, artificial magnetic fields would make the science fiction style domed cities viable, since we wouldn't have to be immured underground.
lets talk about is it possible to use starlifting or the energy of the star to tractor a planets spin maybe using asteriod or even other planets to then back spin it to make a molten core and also i think a molten core is very effcient if your goal is to make a magnetosphere that would be very hard to terrorize or tamper with
@@charliemaynard2554 yea dude does have one if you look at his early work its much more pronounced he has since underd gone speech threapy after his YT carreer took off but imo i prefer his original speech
A supraconductor ring ON the planet, along the equator, with 10 or 12 nucléar plants (one gigawatt each), is enough energy to build up a magnetic field similar to the one on earth in less than 12 years. We need to use the core of mars to spend much less energy.
@@luciendardaraurore7433 I'm a bit confused maybe. If a current in a superconductor requires zero volts to keep it going and power = volts x amps that means multiplying a very great amps current by zero which would get zero watts of power. It seems to me that it would only require volts to get the current going then none after that, Of-course if the planets temperature was at a level comfortable to humans then the superconductors with todays technology would need refrigeration which would need a lot of power so that is maybe what your saying.
I never thought I'd see the aurora borealis on Mars.
That's what you get when you make a magnetosphere.
They made their own clouds. Brings to mind the people who built the great Gothic cathedrals, knowing they'd be long dead before the work was finished, trusting that their great-grandchildren would lay the final stones. We've lost that kind of generational thinking on Earth.
Here, you see it in everything they do.
The Expanse ❤️
Our attention spans have been deliberately shortened.
@@2wings1bird31 we do it to ourselves. Lizard brain want quick easy dopamine.
Aurora Borealis? At this time of day, at this time of the year, at this point in the country, located entirely within MARS?
Ah I miss The Expanse, here's hoping they wind up being able to pull off a second miracle and get a mini-series to do the last few books.
My DnD world is 30k years in the future, and the Elves are the humans that evolved on Mars before they destroyed it and had to flee back to earth. I've wanted to justify them making a magnetosphere but I just hand waved the "how." Thanks Issac for making my DnD world a little more accurate lol
They trap an massive iron elemental lord in the planets core which is forced to generate the magnetic field but the wards holding it in place are waning in power.
I tried DnD once as i loved the idea of disappearing in to a fantasy world. So i joined a club. The problem is the other members were very cliquey and impatient with a beginner. I did my due diligence and read as many of Gary Gygax's books as possible but as a new player I was still very inexperienced and 'dense' when it game to playing the game. Can you recommend any groups that play and record their sessions for TH-cam as I hope to try again someday ? Thanks in advance for any replies or suggestions:) Love Light and Peace everyone.
@@twt3716 The adventure zone is pretty good at telling a story and being light in rules. th-cam.com/video/V5sK5QW6FbE/w-d-xo.html
My advice for DnD is ignore all the dice and play the game. A good DM will tell you what to roll for your first few sessions. The rules will come over time, a fun group is why people play DnD.
@@derp-tiny Thank you very much for taking the time to reply to me. I will take your advice. Once again, thank you very much :) Have yourself a glorious evening
@snugglepig now this is just an assumption but I’m assuming that the cliquey group places lots of importance on the mechanics and base lore of the game, and in my experience the main big dnd media like the adventure zone and others are a bit looser on things like the mechanics and rigid accuracy, instead focusing more on their story and having a good time. If you can’t find anything good enough, if all else fails you could theoretically sit in on a session with that/your group without playing yourself, just observing them to familiarize yourself with the game and their play style. Depending on other factors I might suggest trying to find a different group to play with, but that isn’t always possible to do in these situations.
this episode is a good reminder of how grounded you are in reality compared to a lot of other people that discuss these topics and I very much appreciate it. :)
Exactly, it would be more practical to build some cities on Mars and lace it with electromagnetic material to give it a artificial magnetic field to protect them
Isaac Arthur has single-handedly ruined my dreams of detonating a million nuclear bombs inside of Mars.
:) There's plenty of other handy uses for them
@@isaacarthurSFIA Hows about a second sun?, surely a million nuclear bombs would be enough on Jupiter. Ofcorse we have to stay away from europa once it's done 🙂
@@isaacarthurSFIA Orion drive mayhaps?
Artificial magnetosphers and in general radiation protection is a topic I had wanted to see covered for a long while now, thank you.
I could see a cylindrical space habitat having equipment at its ends for capturing charged particles that get drawn into its magnetic field. If they're going to spiral into the ends of the magnetic field anyway, might as well bottle them as supplemental materials for making stuff instead of just wearing away at the armour.
You're welcome :)
@@isaacarthurSFIA Cheers for all this
I know you probably get it a lot
But you deserve more for your effort
@@isaacarthurSFIAis there a way to do artificial volcanoes because those are what replenishes the atmosphere so I heard
When moving planets and galaxies is the norm on this channel, putting a magnetosphere on a planet is a like a Tuesday event. Just plain and boring to the engineer at hand haha
*Tuesday morning*
It's kinda in the description of the channel... science, sci-fi, and futuristic ideas, not necessarily in that order.
Awww I have to a magnetosphere again, ugh.. Can't Steve do this one?, he has nothing important to do anyway..
Tossing up a magnetosphere around your new planet…. Is about as “epic” an event as, slipping on a fresh pair of socks 😏😎
I'm sure there are people on modern day Earth who genuinely enjoy building the exact same cookie cutter two-story house for the 100th time, maybe with a minor incremental improvement or two. To each their own, as they say
"If you shipped in and built your oceans and sky, then you probably do not feel the sky's the limit on your ambitions and undertakings. " -27:57
Very nice quote!
It also mirror the martian hopelessness quote from expanse about living under the dome and ocean seem impossible
Thank you for making it clear early on that Magnetospheres are technically optional on human timescales since the main indicators of atmosphere is Volcanism with how slow the atmosphere loss is. This is one of those misunderstood concepts that people seemed to have picked up somewhere and then just parrot without thinking, and I've spent many hours commenting on this bringing up the escape mechanisms and timescales involved in the past with no real discussion.
One thing useful in future videos is that the UV Ionization/Solar Wind charged particle stripping combination may not even exist on red dwarf stars, because they hardly radiate any UV light, resulting in less charged particles for the Red Dwarf's Solar Wind to strip, making Magnetospheres far less necessary there.
I consider myself scientifically literate and try to keep abreast with the latest scientific information in areas of interest to myself and I always learn something new when I come to Isaac’s channel. Whether it’s from Isaac or the incredibly knowledgeable fans in the comment section his channel consistently provides new and interesting information, it’s so cool!
@@christopherhughes2211 Here's a good article in more layman's terms on planetary atmosphere loss:
geosci.uchicago.edu/~kite/doc/Catling2009.pdf
It's one step below an actual technical article, so bridging the gap between pop sci and actual research articles.
@@CFCbluemofia but red dwarves are more active and often have violent flares of charged particles, so probably no. I'm sure there might be stable ones, but they'd be in the minority compared to what we've observed. Also, to be in the habitable zone a planet would have to be MUCH closer, which means more chances of direct hits from CMEs.
Bullshit.
@@durshurrikun150 care to elaborate on that?
One of the neater proposals I've seen for a Mars magnetosphere involved constantly ionizing particles off Phobos to create a plasma torus around Mars. Unsure if that would be better or worse than a L1 magnetic shield, but still neat!
How about 3 big solar powered directional magnetrons out in L1. You could direct the solar wind whichever way you wanted.
I'm surprised Isaac didn't mention this idea, I've seen it before too. Maybe it's a crazy idea?
That's the entire centerpiece of Bamford's paper, i'm surprised Issac mentioned the paper but not the plasma torus. Bamford specialises in plasma physics, and also has some interesting papers on trapping plasma from the solar wind to enhance active shielding for spacecraft, which she links to the natural phenomenon of lunar swirls.
I just found your channel a few days ago and it’s a complete rabbit hole. I’m so deep in and there’s still so much to watch. Thank you!
Ah welcome friend! Welcome to the channel that is full of wonder and where moving whole solar systems is an "every other Tuesday". Moving whole galaxies is an "once a month event". All while you realize every alien invasion movie ever is so vastly underpowered it's not even funny how quickly we'd lose. Hope you enjoy your stay and remember! "If brute force isn't working you're not using enough!"
Welcome :)
Thanks a bunch for this! I've been writing a Martian Magnetosphere generation plotline, and its nice to have all the research in one place!
Nothing makes my Thursdays like a new informative SFIA video. 👌
I cant hear the term Shkadov Thruster without giggling. Sounds like something that used to occasionally happen to mall Santas with nervous kids. Yes I know what it is but I'm a child. Love the channel, gives me hope for humans like me. Thanks Isaac and Crew😁
I don't get it.
It's a joke about child abuse
I like the fact how gravity of mars makes it nice candidate for real sturdy dome design
Can make some with 10m thick shell glass, weight of it creates enough pressure that generated air will be like on earth, possible to have giant thick heavy dome over the head supported only by sea level air pressure
What a fascinating in-depth look at magnetospheres, and the potential for creating them! Oh, and the fact that we would have a really long time to figure it out on Mars, if we got the atmosphere built up. I've seldom seen it mentioned on other channels... though I seem to remember Anton (Petrov) and Kyle (Hill) both saying something quite similar, before.
cough cough piezoelectrical transducers tuned to the planet's resonant frequency... a network of pyramids would do nicely
Great episode. It really does raise the question of what a galaxy-wide gardening effort might actually look like. By this point I'm sold on cozy habitats rather than fussing with planets, but even if they're only being worked on as a hobby, there's a lot more factors to consider than I originally thought.
I absolutely loved this video. It reminded me of some of your very first videos from way back when your channel was still largely unknown. I've said this several times, but I'll say it again: thank you so much for giving us such great quality and interesting videos.
your channel is god-like. i like where you are clearly asking "what is the MECHANISM by which a magnetosphere protects against escape" or whatev
This was a very intriguing, in-depth view of how to Create a Magnetosphere. You are really making History with these videos you make.
On Mars, a Statue should be erected of you! 😉
Someone tell Elon, we need that statue ASAP.
Put that Isaac Arther statue next to the one of Ray Bradbury...
I wouldn't object, but the first thought that came to my mind was some huge Elon Musk statue looming over a domed city :)
@@isaacarthurSFIA Fine by me. Musk and his organization have done more to transport humans to space than NASA has in half a generation.
It's time to let the space industry develop like the airlines did 100 years ago.
@@isaacarthurSFIA Issac Arthur bobbleheads. It's a marketable idea 💡
Thanks for the video, not much people talk about the magnetoshpere for Mars, more people need to talk about this when they talk about terraforming Mars. ❤💯
For Mars to look like Earth you would have to give it a Moon. The gravitational force would cause the core of Mars to warm, creating a magnetic field, protecting the planet's atmosphere.
then why doesn't the moon itself have a magnetic field? it's not that simple dude, IO is the most vulcanically active body in the solar system and orbits the biggest planet if having a molten core were enough then Io would be the place to expect a magnetic field, and it doesn't.
its not just: if moon then magnetic field, else dead planet
You know, Mr Arthur, I was totally expecting you to explain how the 'Use nukes to restart the core' method from "The Core" can actually work. Not disappointed though.
I was actually the 'prosecutor' for that movie on a show called Reels of Justice :)
@@isaacarthurSFIA XD
The funny thing is that while you assume an advanced civilization controls so much energy they don't care I always assume the opposite. My definition of a mature/advanced technology is that it does the most work possible while using the LEAST energy, no matter how much energy might be available. Such a civilization would always be trying to work with entropy to make the universe do as much work for them as possible, and they'd avoid endless fights against it even if they had plenty of energy to spare.
I personally think that while giving Mars a magnetosphere would definitely be cool, a GUNNM-style (minus the weird biotech-stuff) would just be more realistic. Basically just turn the entire surface into 1 big semi-contiguous "dome".
@@Feroce depends on how the dome is made. I'm thinking less 'big solid dome', and more 'foam/membrane-aerogel-like covering'. Also, my IRL "specialties" are biology and linguistics, so I might just be completely wrong in some of my assumptions here.
@@Feroce I entered a game dev contest like probably 7 years ago, had a month to make a game about an hour in length. My game was set on Mars with a dome built over it like that (there are in-world reason why), the inciting incident of the story was maintenance failing and a section breaking off and falling to the planet.
This episode took me back about six years. Having the math and graphs explained was pretty cool very nostalgic
I Really Miss Your Old Longer Videos That Delved Into The Technology, Materials, The Crazy Math
And Was Much More Niche
I Like These Short Overviews .
But You Did The Hard Science Long Form Better Than Anyone On This Site
You're funny 🤣
Mars! Such a storied subject, and handled so well, as expected!!
I wonder if enlarging Phobos would not be cheaper. With a larger moon, we could resurrect the magnetosphere of March. The gravitational friction between the two bodies would heat the core of Mars. Wouldn't it be cheaper to tow meteorites from the asteroid belt to Mars' orbit than to build a large nuclear power plant in orbit around Mars?
That's not a moon (anymore). It's a space heater!
I know this is a bit late reply but for a Mars it would required at least a moon in the size range of Ceres or Iapetus. Another option would be Oberon, Titania. These moons could heat up the core and keep it fluid. The issue is we do no have currently the technology to move bodies in that size and there must be some studies how it will effect the other inner planets a new object. Venus also could have a moon in a size range of Callisto or Ganymede. The issue there is how the Venus could keep the moon and not dragged by the Sun. This is currently a scifi so maybe Isaac won't reply to it but these things could ensure both planets can have better chances to be habitable.
A question: Like most I look on the concept of terraforming as one where the plan is to permanently alter a planet in the image of Earth. To do that you need the requirements of long term stability, like a magnetosphere, not just do some window dressing.
But given our seeming liking for disposable rather than repairable, might we look on terraforming the same way? If we have to power to transform a planet it may be more convenient to just keep doing it than bother with long term stability. "I've got my house, my children can build their own!"
ie:
If we could terraform Mars would we bother with the effort of a lasting solution if a convenient one would do for say 5k years?
Thing is once you've given it the atmosphere you need then you are looking at very minor additions on geologic timescales. So it's not much of an issue.
Thanks mate!
What if at some point every civilization makes a satellite swarm like starlink but with more functions like outward observation, communications, energy generation and electromagnetic shielding?
This solution would be kind of a one for all solution for every planet
kinda the whole idea behind planet & dyson swarms
Dear Issac, I want my own personal magnetsophere. Maybe put it on a drone, and it can hover above my head. But I can not think of a good reason to do this. Can you help? Thanks
technically, you would recieve even less radiation from the sun...so. less sunburn?
To stop gas from escaping when you're left out in the sun, obviously
@@jetflaque8187 That's a pretty good idea! Thanks
@@Hulmeg0319 If gas can't escape , how do I disperse my own farts? I don't want them to linger around my person. I want to share them with the world.
Use a good ferromagnetic shampoo, and your will never have a bad hair day.
I still like the idea of using a man made black hole. Drop one into the core to orbit its center of mass and churn the contents to reactivate plate tectonics. Is it overkill? Yes, but its a solution that requires no maintenance and can last for millenia while surviving wars and carastrophe
I’ve been asking for this. Thank you.
Wow, I gotta get up real early to see an Isaac Arthur release.
How about an episode about HOW to quickly build an atmosphere and oceans on Mars, assuming there's not a much water there as we thought?
A deflector tracking Mars' L1 point would be helpful to protect the atmosphere of a terraformed Mars. An L1 deflector for Earth would reduce the force of the Van Allen Belts, which would make operating in Earth orbit safer fr humans and machinery.
Another example of how terraforming other worlds could be helpful in terraforming Earth.
I had a design for a magnetosheath and then 6 months after I had drawn it up I saw a NASA press release unveiling almost exactly what I had designed lol
Should've worn that tinfoil hat
Then share the design freely
Ayy I’ve been looking forward to this one
I thought so, a few months back on Anton's channel I suggested missing magnetic field isn't THAT bad to a planet, as we have a couple of moons and a planet on our solar system with practically no magnetic field, but still have atmospheres. Didn't know any numbers though. Interesting episode!
I admit that I've been negligent in listening to you for the past few months. Still, when I do listen I enjoy the effort you put in. Thanks from a years-long subscriber.
It all depends on how much power is available.
On a budget, use carefully placed solar shields
If not, stellar mining and nucleosynthesis of gigatons of transuranics then drop it all to the martian core.
What about transducers capable of taking advantage of the Earths mechanical energy and turning it into electrical energy? Say maybe a network of them on the equator? Doing some math, it seems like the shape best suited to achieve this coupling is, surprise surprise, a pyramidal shape, and the best materials naturally available for the task are, interestingly enough, granite because of its high quartz content, and sandstone as an insulator
Future Episode idea! the feasibility of building an orbital ring and using it as a superconductor network to transport solar energy around the world. Thus eliminating the "only when the sun shines" limitations of solar energy.
It would be a few years back now and not sure if it was an episode unto itself but he has touched on microwave beaming satellite to satellite and to the surface on the night side. Cant help more than that.
The main issue with solar is the massive material waste, same as wind, which is why environmentalists only advocate for nuclear. Well, environmentalists who care about the environment anyway.
Yea, there is waste involved, but it is still WAY better then burning coal or oil.
MAGNETO ARTHURSDAY TIME!
I have been waiting for someone to cover this topic for years now. At lease by mr isacc standard
Awesome, I have been looking forward to this episode
We need a series and movie where humanity is 3200 yrs in the future and have completely developed and colonized our solar system. Awesome video
Can we extend the earth's magnetosphere around the moon with giant magnets in orbit? squeeze it towards the moon?
Not really. The moon is nearly 400,000km away & the earth's magnetosphere peters out at barely 70,000km. Magnetic fields obey the inverse square distance law & stretching it that far is gunna leave you witha weak distorted megnetosphere that's not strong enough to protect anything.
1:58 biblically accurate Mars
Kerbal Space Program rule #1) If your thrusters do not point the right way; you will not go to space today.
This I think was the main problem with Elon saying 'we should have a plan B for nuclear armageddon'. There is no nuclear armageddon that could erase our magnetosphere.
Hey Isaac, can you do a video about analog computers in the future?
Just a thought, but wouldn't bringing a sizeable enough moon to low enough orbit potentially restart the core "naturally"? And would be a forever solution too. Not a low energy solution, or fast, but something. The magnetospheres on some moons around gas giants in our solar system are pretty hefty after all, so just replicate that interaction. Works for Earth too..
As far as I know, the core is not made of "the right stuff", it would not last, the moon would drift away faster than our own...
I think tidal forces can only sustain an active core, not restart a dead one.
@@foreigncontaminant2015 Why would the moon drift away based on that?
@@HowlingWolf518 I'm still thinking the density differences between the layers might be enough to cause some rotational difference between the core and "the rest". Friction, energy, heat. And there you go.
I assume the entire core isn't solid anyway. Also, The moon would probably have to be "ridiculously" low at least for the start of the pumping of energy into the core. And large enough.
@@gebus5633 Perhaps, but that's still going to be fairly weak - you're just blowing on the soup, not mixing it.
I am current writing a sci-fi series about Humanity explore the Galaxy using reserve-engineered alien technology (acquired from their invaders in mid-21 century). Right now, I am having some difficulty writing about how Humanity could terraform planets like Mars and the Jovian Moons for human habitation. Is there any place that I can discuss with many people about this topic?
Try the SFIA Facebook link in all the episode descriptions, talk book concepts is probably on the top 3 most common threads in our forum there.
Funny thing when you replenish Mars' magnetosphere. The planet warms up - very fast in fact. You may have oceans again within less than a single generation. Not to mention massive atmosphere building (with comfortable temperatures soon after).
Please don’t forget to link the paper you mentioned by R.A. Bamford! Great video 😊
I did didn't I? Thanks for reminding me Nicolas :)
Mine all the surface perchlorates of Mars. Add fuel and ignite the stuff. How much O2 would that add to the atmosphere?
Thank you for addressing this issue. Very interesting and something I've been curious about.
I'm surprised I didn't hear you mention adding mass to the moon to increase the churning affect on Mar's core similar to how our moon affects our core to slowly build a natural magnetosphere.
L1 Lagrange point halo-orbital rings. If you can create an orbital ring for any orbit then you can create an industrial platform at any L1. Generate a magnetic field. Dim or increase illumination coincident with the normal day length. Electromagnetically capture hydrogen for low-water worlds. At L2, create a permanent, low-temperature observatory (JWST and Isacc triggered this train of thought). Thought you may have implied this in this video, but I wanted to trigger thoughts with it explicitly. Thanks Isaac.
This is one of the greatest space videos of all time
If you want to terraform mars you should start by delivering a large amount of cometary mater to the planet that would provide both water and gasses. Of course you'll get stuff like amonia and other things you might not want. However the right bacteria can help clean that up once atmospheric pressure and water are right
These long game theories are going to be silly to future aims I think. Nano swarms of AI directed robots will be able to build massive domed structures faster than we can imagine. With lush vegetation, animal and human life within. With warp drive advances, we’ll be able to pass mars easily in seconds and find earth like planets that we could conceivably live on with minimal terraforming.
@@naturestillness
Longer term we'll render the need for domes in less hospitable environments obsolete, only needed for far more extreme ones.
Ha, so it's like the cone of defense with a buckler shield.
You know I think before we terraform Mars or any other planets I think we need to fully explore them
Thank you..
Thank you Issac. I can always count on you.
I wonder how countries like Norway would recreate the aurora borealis (or australis), since I expect that the shield would disable it, and I just can't imagine those countries being okay with that without a replacement.
also... do you then buy an aurora for your birthday? Or are they just trying to replicate the natural one? Will other places try it too? "See the Aurora over the Pyramids!" ?
CGI
Always been curious about this!
Thanks for that Isaac, This also might be a good education video to use when necessary.
I like the L1 mega magnet idea, and im glad im not the only one that sees a magnetosphere as doable ! ....... think i would go for the multi satellite "starlink" approach tho ? better coverage and if 1 in 20,000 satellites goes down......no real problem...........plus you get good internet ! :)
Yay, a topic I've been looking forward to!
Technically, the average speed of atoms in our atmosphere is the speed of sound relative to pressure. But there are some at times that are completely motionless.
Oh boy this is going to be interesting
Interesting.
Nice relaxing background music too
The reason Venus and Mars don't have a magnetosphere is because they lack a large moon like Earth.
Earth's large moon's gravity helps the Earth's core spin as it orbits the Earth creating our magnetosphere.
Mars needs much more mass to keep atmosphere, and liquids for longer periods. Perhaps, all the asteroids could be directed at Mars, to increase it's mass. Then, it might be worth it to have magnetospheric generators. Thanks for the vid. :)
15:09 Yeah but Isaac ... what place WOULDN'T be great for putting a giant magnet?
How one grand mother broke Mars's magnetosphere
Any SFIA discounts for the NSS conference? Those conferences aren't cheap...
There can be interesting benefits to *putting the artificial magnetic poles **_on the equator_* of the planet/moon/asteroid in question.
You need a deflector screen just as much as you need a magnetosphere. You plant a battery of radio transmitters in shallow graves in a straight line around the equator and transmit both high frequencies and low frequencies at the same time to block heavy radiation like protons and neutrons bombarding the surface of mars.
Could you drill ultra deep bore holes and melt the rock via fusion ignition? Once you have melted a sufficient amount of the core all you need is an orbital body to get the now molten core spinning again. I'd recommend taking an many asteroids as are moveable and creating a ring around Mars creating some tidal heating mechanism.
Maybe on a smaller scale, artificial magnetic fields could also be added to settlements on Mars. That way, we could build geodesic domes instead of bunkers.
At that scale it would be way cheaper to just put a layer of regolith on top of your habs & work areas.
Please make a video about the progress we've made against senescence. Please.
See "Life Extension" & "The Science of Aging"
does phobos and demos have any influence on Mars core in a way that our Moon has on Earth core?
They are very small. Our moon is a pretty big one compared to our planet. Those tidal forces that drive volcanism and tectonics and a spinning molten core rely on gravity, which is related to the mass of the object. Phobos and Deimos are too small to have much of an effect.
I think in order to keep Mars' core functioning it will need a significant real moon of its own. I really believe that the tug & pull interaction of Earth and our moon keeps our core functioning.
@Oak Tree yes, hence my statement of needing a real moon.
Another great topic, thanks for all you do!
As always say awesome channel with awesome content and great quality
Sounded like the audio was sped up a tiny bit and i like it also congrats on beating the lisp, I'd totally forgotten the lisp rabbit disclaimer m, now you're clearly as
Mars with a star link with microwaves just going around cooking away may be able to restart the electric dynamo, of mars’ core, but that’s only a hypothesis. Just an idea.
Solar wind shield at Terran L1 is not a far future project. It is going to be a near future project to prevent hazards by coronal mass ejection like the Carrington Event. The civilization based on electronic circuits needs it today.
Yes
If you want to put your magnetosphere generation on an orbital ring, it doesn't need to be high-altitude to get enough sun. A low-altitude one that's still in darkness for half its length would still have more than enough exposed to the sun that you could power it from what lands on the day-side of the ring alone, with room to spare.
Let's say it takes 4 GW for a magnetic field. If 1 m^2 of panels produces 250 W, then you need 16 million square metres of panels to generate enough power. If the angle to the sun cuts the average efficiency in half, that's 32 million square metres. If your ring is 40,000 km in circumference, then just putting a strip 2m wide around the ring would more than cover the magnetosphere's power requirements, and you're going to be making it much wider than a mere two metres, anyway.
Exactly how would stay in place a space station at L1 point of Mars, when would be pushed by solar wind, because it would have a enormous magnetic field big enough to shield whole Mars?
It would be a bit closer to the sun than L1, to balance
Use magnets to hold it in place.
@Paul Bedford the issue is that engines will consume 1000 more energy than deflection field, so if your shield needs tens of GW, you need tens of TW to push against solar wind, certainly can be done but not a artificial magnetosfere is the hardest part to do, but whole apparatus necessary to keep it in place.
@@alandpost that isn't possible, if would be closer to the sun than L1 point would complet its orbit significant more faster than Mars, so wouldn't stay between planet and sun, and even if you find a way to keep it in that place, solar wind will push it into Mars direction, because it is basically a giant magnetic sail that catches each day thausen of tons of charged particle moving with a speed between 500 and 2000 of km/s.
Ahhhhhh a ring around Mars. . . .The Omnissiah is pleased! Toasters for ALL!!
Steep angle of the rotation axis is also pretty severe.
I’m not the only guy who has to watch these things a few times before I get the concept, right? I mean, not everyone knows this stuff, right?
Of course not.
Anyone who isn't a physicist needs to.
Re-heating the core. Hm from when in known physics molten metal can produce magnetic field? I think we dont really understand what is really happening inside the Earth. Noone was ever there.
I can honestly say I don't feel any smarter after watching this but great graphics