@@danielcaraballo113 Antisocial af. The dopamine hit you get from snark. You're commenting on a youtube comment, why do you think you have anything to offer either the OP, the community, or Drac?
@@stevewhite3424 You do? You a mind reader or something? I just wanted to point out y'all are weird, I'm allowed to. Just like you're allowed to have a parasocial attachment. But you are doing it in public, so just anybody can indeed waltz by and leave their opinion, you're just gonna have to contend with that.
As I understand it, Nelson & Rodney managed such a compact citadel citadel by accepting that buoyancy would not be guaranteed, and when the USN tried to do the numbers on them they couldn't make them work because they assumed a citadel that protected buoyancy.
Drach has explained in another video that the American designers couldn't duplicate what the British were claiming for the Nelsons because they assumed that the armor belt would cover a set percentage of the ship's length. The Nelsons then came in with a shorter length of armor belt.
@@kemarisite I also read this in Friedman’s _Illustrated Design History._ For decades US designers operated under a condition / rule that the length of the armor belt would be a percentage of overall waterline length. If a ship uses all-forward main armament, the belt of said ship _could be_ shorter than the percentage. That was disallowed by US design philosophy.
Great video Drach. 48:57 In 'High Seas High Risk' by Pat Wastell Norris starting at page 218 The Sudbury II (oceanic tug) was in a storm over Christmas/new years and the cook still made a 5 course dinner for the crew with the ship rolling to 50 degrees. I think the big gain with the Nelson class as 8 gun ships would be switching to 2 quad turrets, but that would probably make them too wide.
That's hilarious about how the modern day "salute" originated & changed. Which is another thing of which I was unaware. Half awake & listening to a new Drydock and I learn something new about something old. And that happens quite frequently, which is why I keep listening.
The magnetic field is an issue in any fire control solution. Back in the day, as you said, the planetary magnetosphere was not well understood but by WWII the fire control computers (in the US- I don't know about other navies) did calculate for the ship's position on the earth. The Mark 68 GFCS, for example, was able to make those adjustments (I know from personal experience) and this system was on US warships by 1953- and it was based on WWII systems that could also do the same thing. I mean, wow. think about it. As a combat veteran fire control technician, just think about what it really takes to put a round on a target. Oh yeah, killing is a science.
That's really interesting for a knuckle dragger like me. Let's just say I'm good at long-range shots, but what you guys had to figure out is ridiculous, lol. All the tech to help do that I find interesting. I didn't know we had the capability back in WW2.
You can thank Lee for some of those details as he treated the big guns the same as one of his competition riffles and after his curvature of the Earth adjustments were included the ships that did so started setting gunnery records. In leading the Japs away at night from the rest of his squadron, he targeted their search lights with the 5" guns near range limits then slipped away. Fun Fact is the NAVY wanted to disqualify him because of bad eyes (due to a flash injury) but he kept winning gunnery championships proving he was the best despite the handicap.
I always took the salute when not having a hat on as a similar thing to the term "tugging the forelock" which I've seen in various historical books of that time period and earlier. It's a sign indicating recognition and subservience to a superior. And it seems to be pretty obvious to extend it to one removing a hat. And doffing or saluting by tipping or indicating a motion towards removing a hat makes sense as a short-cut since there are times when removing the hat would take additional time or be very inconvenient. (A sailing ship usually having wind crossing it which could blow the hat off, plus I recall hats being strapped down in poor weather or very windy conditions.)
I read somewhere that the gesture started with armoured knights raising their visors on a meeting, so that the other knight could recognise them. It also showed friendly intent. Though this was a book about soldiering. Pongos may have got it all wrong.
re: 10:46 deaths in the rigging While it's not naval service, I think that looking at Richard Henry Dana's Two Years Before the Mast is going to be illustrative, too. For those unfamiliar, it's the account of a two year voyage from Boston to the California coast, and back, around Cape Horn. During the outbound journey one of the experienced sailors falls from the rigging into the ocean, and dies. Dana describes, in detail, the way that the deceased sailor's possessions are dealt with. With the understanding that he was describing an established, and general procedure used by custom & recognized in law, aboard all American merchant shipping at the time. This was for a ship with a crew of ~14, I think. And for that part of the voyage, it was seen as unusual, but not surprising, to lose a sailor in that manner. I don't want to suggest this for extrapolating for deaths in naval service, but to offer another bit of insight for the acceptance about the level of risk involved in getting into the rigging in all weathers.
@@keefymckeefface8330 I agree! It became popular because of the California Gold Rush, and I'm so glad it did. It's an absolute treasure. I must share this quote from the section about Professor Nuttall. It's so wonderfully cynical and gladitorial: "The Pilgrim's crew called Mr. Nuttall "Old Curious," from his zeal for curiosities; and some of them said that he was crazy, and that his friends let him go about and amuse himself this way. Why else would (he)... come to such a place as California to pick up shells and stones, they could not understand. One of them, however, who had seen something more of the world ashore said, "Oh, 'vast there!... I've seen them colleges and know the ropes. They keep all such things for cur'osities, and study 'em, and have men a purpose to go and get 'em... He'll carry all these things to the college, and if they are better than any that they have had before, he'll be head of the college. Then, by and by, somebody else will go after some more, and if they beat him he'll have to go again, or else give up his berth. That's the way they do it. This old covery knows the ropes. He has worked a traverse over 'em, and come 'way out here where nobody's ever been afore, and where they'll never think of coming." This explanation satisfied Jack; and as it raised Mr. Nuttall's credit, and was near enough to the truth for common purposes, I did not disturb it." The book is also available via Project Gutenberg in several different formats.
Nah, it works well because Merchant Mariners and Navy Sailors at the time were basically the same people, just sailing under different paymasters and often switching between the civilian and military services on a regular basis. It is really only after the Age of Sail that we find most Navy sailors are trained entirely by the Navy to service warships, as opposed to being professional mariners who sail whatever ship is asking for crew. Thus, the "customs and traditions" of the Merchant Mariners were mostly the same as the Navy in a given country. All the Navy really added was some extra discipline to manage the larger crew sizes and ensure battle competence.
52:45 I once saw a detailed attempt using modelling program to squeeze enough machinery into a Nelson to make it go in the range of 30 knots; it ended up with removing the secondaries in addition to various Other changes which were similar to what you were talking about, so one less gun, everything moved forward, etc.
Regarding the Edmund Fitzgerald, she was a "split house" ship. The deck officers generally live in the forward superstructure and the rest of the crew live in the aft superstructure. If the vessel lacks "tunnels" aka below deck fore and aft passageways it can be too rough to head aft for food.
It's my understanding they do. A friend has written a number of Great Lakes shipwreck books. One thing he describes in one book is that in heavy seas you can see the ship twisting by looking down the length of the tunnel.
On the subject of sails and steam engine funnels, it's only on a dead run (with the wind directly behind) that the smoke travels down the line of the ship, all other directions that you can sail it's diagonal and the smoke would be going to one side. Since the sails were a "range extender" to make up for the inefficiency and short range of early steam engines, I suspect you'd either use sails or engines, but rarely both at once.
I've been watching for a very long time and it just occurred to me how easily you give details in inches and yards instead of Cm and meters. Being from England I really appreciate your effort to make it easy for us dumb Americans.
Another reason to document cause of death relates to compensation entitlements for widows and orphans: death had to be service-related to get the payout via the Chatham Chest. I believe this typically took the form of a lump sum - not necessarily a big one by any means (probably no more than a couple month's wages) - in lieu of a pension. This was additional to pay accrued since the dead man's last pay (which was paid out to the next of kin whether service-related or not).
A fellow Chef of me served as a cook on a german frigate. He told me it depended on the duration of the heavy sea because after a few days you run out of things. He said it was impossible to grasp materials from the storages.
Would it make sense to not only view battleships as pre- or post-Dreadnought, but also their small cousins the coastal defence ships? The older coastal defence ships like the Eidsvold class look a lot like pre-Dreadnought battleships, while later coastal defence ships like the Sverige class or the Väinämöinen class look similar to Dreadnoughts.
I think you've summed up my own views on Admiral Tryon, obviously trying to get Captains to use their initiative in following orders was a good thing and would have paid dividends in the long run, but as you say he should have realised much sooner what was going to happen and cancelled the manoeuvre. Ironically it seems that in trying to teach initiative to his captains he refused to use any initiative with his own plans, following them to the letter and refusing to adapt them to the changing situation he found himself in, ultimately resulting in no action being taken to prevent his ship being lost until far too late.
28:50 My understanding of the Japanese Zero fighter was that it had a huge range, but a rather limited amount of ammunition, necessitating that fighters on CAP had to land for re-arming quite often. Perhaps having the second, smaller flight deck available only for launching replacement fighters would have helped with this. 39:40 Drach goes into detail about the living conditions on U505 compared to USS Silversides, but the thing that would have sold it for me is that Gato class subs had air conditioning. There are several accounts of Axis subs returning from long patrols and one of the first things they do is throw all the mattresses overboard because they are black and rotting from mould/damp. 57:13 On the variations of magnetic field, it is also possible that they knew it varied, but assumed that said variations would be an ideal spherical gradiation from pole to pole, as you might find in a mathematical model. Whereas the real earth is big, odd and still not entirely understood.
@@WALTERBROADDUS I don't claim any expertise here, it is something I read elsewhere. As I understand it, the Zero initially carried 60 rounds for each of the cannon, which equates to (roughly) 7 seconds of firing or 3-5 bursts. The 7.7mm machine guns carried 500 rounds, about 30 seconds of firing. But American aircraft were armoured and there are several accounts of them absorbing large amounts of MG fire. Ammunition for the cannon was upgraded in later variants to 100-round drums and then 150 (125?) - round belts. Edit: I took a look at the Zero model types and I *think* it would have been the model 32 at Midway, which had 100 rounds for each cannon, so about 11 seconds total firing time.
The A6M Zero carried 60 rounds of ammunition for each of its two wing cannons, giving about 7 seconds continuous fire. The two smaller machine guns in the nose had more ammunition, so could continue to fire after the cannon ammunition ran out, but were far less effective. The Messerschmitt BF109E used in the battle of Britain had a similar arrangement and shared the same problem.
The primary driver for air conditioning on US submarines was electrical and electronic reliability. Wet electrical equipment (particularly with rubberised cotton insulation) tends to function “poorly”. The Japanese aircraft carriers started with up to three flight decks but these were reduced as the required takeoff run increased. US carriers started fitting catapults with the Essex class having up to four (two forward and two in the hangar mounted sideways). The Japanese Zero was optimised for range and manoeuvrability above everything else. Low powered engines also fed into the need for light weight.
Incidentally, for inveterate haters of BuOrd on this channel, US flight services recognised well before they got into the war that .50 calibre MGs were a bit anaemic and planned to switch into 20mm Hispano cannons. In typical fashion, they built a lot of guns and ammo in 1941 and *then* tested them, only to find they were horribly unreliable. Someone looked at the drawings for (quite reliable) British Hispanos and discovered the firing chamber was a bit too long. Obvious response? Rebuild or find some way to shim the parts. Actual response? Muck about pointlessly with a bunch of other parts. The analogy to Mk14 torpedoes is clear.
Thanks, Drach! You've explained (I think) something that bothered me years ago when I read the Alexander Kent novels centering on the fictitious Richard Bolitho. I never understood why he used the phrase "he knuckled his brow" for saluting. I'm assuming that he's describing what you were describing - the bringing up of the curled hand to touch the head when there was no hat present. Thanks!
A thought on the citadel structures to extend fighting ability and floating of the key parts of the ship, has thought been given to shedding sections of the ship's outer hull or forecastle. An ability between bulkheads to shed dead weight from the extreme ends or the outer hull with a citadel designed to float out like a tight fitting container.
@ 28:42 Or do away with the Lower Flight Deck, Lengthen the Middle Flight Deck almost to the bow (solving the water over the bow issue) and use Catapults. (Either add forward firing Casements (IJN Kaga) or simply use the weight saved by removing four 8 inch guns (IJN Akagi) elsewhere.). And lengthening the Upper Flight deck to perhaps halfway between where the Middle Deck originally ended and the bow. Cats should be either Compressed Air or Hydraulic since the weight of the aircraft to be launch would be much greater variance than a standard Recon Floatplane (off a Cruiser or Battleship) would ever be.... (Unless you set up a system of a base charge and extra small powder bags/rings like you have on a mortar to allow for this large range of weights... Anything else you could start either dumping planes into the ocean or literally ripping the airframes in two!) Using either Air or Hydraulics would allow the Cat crew and the Launch Officer see the amount of pressure available for launch and could quickly be adjusted as needed if the windspeed over the Flight Deck changes. (Former USS Saratoga (CV=60) "A (Auxiliary)-Ganger)
I've never been to Chicago, alas (but have done a quick run-through of a Gato boat because I happened to be surprised by a museum right at their closing time on an unrelated road trip), but U505 is a Type IX, which is the much larger (which ain't saying much) of the two classes the Kriegsmarine used. The VIIc of "Das Boot" fame is even smaller.
Hi Drach, maybe have a look at the description. I think there was a copy-paste mistake and the keyreturns have fallen off, causing lack of chapter generation by youtube.
For a very cool (fictional) example of a more modern carrier with a two-deck arrangement: The SHIELD helicarrier from the MCU! The original one, hull number 64, rather than the trio of later Insight carriers (which feature a single deck).
22:13 This question makes me want Drach to make a Hot or Not list of warships from different periods and rate them out of 10 just on appearance. Bringing some teen magazine energy to naval history!
having been through u 505 and USS Pampanito, it is amazing the size difference. I had to turn sideways to get between the engines and I am not a big guy.
Interesting...so the whole figuring out how everyone died part of Return of the Obra Dinn is actually historically viable? Cool! Obviously the supernatural pocketwatch that lets you hear the moments before their death and see the moment of death, the book that can tell when you wrote down the causes of death correctly, the mysterious magical treasure and the various sea monsters are fictional but it's nice to know that there's at least one thing about it that's right other than "Yes, ships existed"
Under the segment about dumb decisions by otherwise smart admirals, I'm surprised Admiral Halsey's Grand Typhoon Excursion Parts 1 and 2 didn't at least get a mention.
You have no idea how often naval vessels went through bad storms in that era. No satellites back then, and they didn't understand the weather as well, so there was a lot less warning. HMS Illustrious and escorts went through a typhoon in the Indian Ocean during WW2. This is what one of the pilots had to say: _We spent two days and nights trying to dodge it, but it won in the end and on October 26 it hit us with all the force of nature gone stark, staring mad. It continued to hit us for three days and I have no desire to experience another. Everything about it was terrifying._ Carrier Pilot [Norman Hanson]. Notice the 'trying to dodge it' part of that quote - they did everything they could to not get caught by the storm, but they failed to escape. Also during WW2: Japanese admiral Mineichi Koga - the successor to Yamamoto - was killed by another typhoon - not one of the storms Halsey ran into. Just after WW2: Washington (BB), Enterprise (CV) and Portland (CA) went through an Atlantic hurricane (in the Pacific, the big storms are called typhoons, in the Atlantic hurricanes). No Halsey involvement. It was actually the second Atlantic hurricane for Enterprise, she went through another one pre-war. She came into NYC so badly damaged by the storm that it looked like the Japanese had gotten her again, Washington lost power and had to be towed, and Portland was actually reported lost, then struggled in a week late only to be immediately condemned by a Navy survey team as no longer fit for sea. This was a Magic Carpet trip, and US soldiers that had survived the war in Europe and were going home would be crippled for life or even killed by the storm. From Sweet Pea at War. Probably lots more examples out there. Notice that all three of the major navies were taking damage and losing people from these storms. Even today we have trouble predicting the path of those storms: a few years back lots of folks in Florida fled from the predicted path of a hurricane and ended up being caught when the storm changed course. Even just this past year, lots of people in the USA died recently from a hurricane that did far more damage than anybody expected. Anybody operating at sea in the pre-satellite era in certain parts of the world at certain times of year was at significant risk of being caught by one of these storms. It's pure luck whether or not ships are able to escape. Halsey was not at fault for being caught by these storms. There were mistakes made, but mostly things that should have been handled at lower levels.
On the subject of submarine habitability, how did the big subs of the other naval powers (excluding one-offs or near one-offs like Suffren or the I-400s) compare to the Type IXs and Gatos?
Even on submarines of today; ergonomics and habitability are low priority. Accommodations are sparse and cramped. Machinery spaces and weapons take priority. Zero privacy. Limited personal space.
I may have missed it, but did you adjust the power on the Amp? I didn't realize it was adjustable until I read another listing for the Amp the other day... Essentially low power pulls 3.7v and amps 5db, medium 5v 10db, and high 6v 11dbm. Though they don't recommend the high setting
Was there any precedent for a CAP-trap? Essentially, knowing you've been spotted by an enemy carrier and instead of sending a strike at them. Mobilizing your entire fighter complement for a CAP or interdiction of the strike?
At high tempo operations, you can keep about a quarter to a third of your force airborne continously at some distance from the carrier. A strike may well include the whole enemy force. Unless you can time your combat patrol to scramble within a tanks loiter time of the strike arriving, you might be putting yourself at a disadvantage.
Question: is there any historical example of a damaged ship listing enough that an enemy ship was able to get close enough to be under the elevation of their guns?
Not so much a question but maybe a Wed or Fri video suggestion. I was reading that early ship to ship radio was literally that, so at Tsushima the "Enemy in sight" message had to go from the aux-cruiser Shinano Maru to the cruiser Itsukushima then relayed to Mikasa. Then in 1912, ships were blasting message ocean wide and the direct messaging was gone; why Jack Phillips told Californian to shut up, because Evans nearly blew his ears off. A video about the development of wireless communication might make a good series.
Re British gun size: weren’t the problems - accurate range-taking, poor ammunition handling and faulty fuses, entirely the problem. Surely with these issues fixed, as they were, the larger gun sizes were an advantage.
What would have to change in history that allows the Wasp to be built as a Yorktown Class and how would history change with Wasp built as the third (of possibly four) Yorktown Class Carriers?
I've toured both _U-505_ and _USS Pampanito._ Uncle Drach is not exagerrating how much more cramped and lacking in amenities the German boat in comparison.
19:00 - Isn't that doable even against a capital ship that _does_ have a citadel large enough to keep it afloat unassisted, by smashing up the ends of the ship to render it unmaneuverable and finishing it off with a few torpedoes?
Kind of, but if the citadel is unbreached guns will likely still be firing and at least in case of battleships, they outrange most torpedoes. A static battledhip that is still spitting shells at you is still doing to be very dangerous to most of your torpedo crafts.
@@michalsoukup1021 That isn't any _more_ the case for a battleship whose citadel is large enough to keep it afloat unassisted than it is for a battleship whose citadel isn't, tho.
Everyone on TH-cam says “coup de gras” when they mean “coup de grâce.” I do not know why. The first might mean “blow of fat.” The second DEFINITELY has an s sound on the end.
That would be the better way, probably. Then again, back when the Nelsons were designed, twin turrets were the norm and going for triples was a big step. Quads might have been a step too far at the time.
I know that I have pestered you about this before, but seeing how it is probably about that time where you would be planning out videos for the coming April: could you please make a video based on the series lore for _Uchū Senkan Yamato_ / _Space Battleship Yamato_ for next AFD? I don't know if the English translation was ever broadcast in the UK, but in the US there were many young nerds who held a deep love of _Star Blazers_ long before the term 'anime' had reached our shores; to a child in the late 1970s and early 1980s, shows like that and the slightly earlier Battle of the Planets (which was a heavily Macek'red edit of _Kagaku Ninja-tai Gatchaman_ / Science Ninja Team Gatchaman ), it was a revelation as to what animation could be.
9:30 Stop it, Drach. This is not the first time you have demonstrated a weak understanding of sailing physics, and of the difference between true wind and apparent wind in particular. Even a wind-only square-rigged ship will frequently carry enough speed to bring the apparent wind forward of the beam - i.e. the wind that a sailor on deck would feel would often be flowing across the deck, but from somewhat forward to somewhat aft. This is despite the fact that the true wind might well be from somewhat abaft. An auxiliary steam vessel operating under sail and steam would be even more prone to carry the apparent wind forward of the beam since the auxiliary power would add to boat speed and thus bring the apparent wind even further forward, often approaching the limit of forward apparent wind in which the sails could stay filled. Your mistaken statements on sailing are not quite reaching the ridiculous levels that the _Game of Thrones_ and _House of the Dragon_ shows do, where they repeatedly show things like full sails set square while masthead pennons flow merrily aft, different characters’ hair streaming in multiple, contradictory directions, and waves (if they exist at all) moving completely independently of these wind indications, but you are getting embarrassingly close.
Simply do not feed into his arguement as its all he has. He is not the type to helpfully educate, but rather he is the type to tear you down while he assumes it builds his image up. If he was all that he would be on some Americas Cup Team and wouldnt have time for poor, misinformed Drach…
🤣 This is nowhere close to America’s Cup level stuff. It is elementary sailing, which is why it is so frustrating to sailors when Drach keeps giving out authoritative sounding but incorrect information.
🤣 Never have. You, on the other hand, are exactly the kind of guy who presumes to know more than he actually does. Do you find that your level of arrogance helps you make your point better?
You lost me with the "being on the 'slightly' less-genocidal side of the war"... You don't get it. There is no difference between the UK/US/German/Russian/Japanese Bureaucracies other than by name. 'The Sun never sets on the British Empire" - and how much bloodshed and deprivation has that caused over the Centuries in places like Africa/middleEast/India/Australia/Canada? Or how about the U.S.Administration's ongoing war against most of the World since 1945? Korea/Vietnam/Nicaragua/Lybia/Iraq/Iraq/Afghanistan/Ukraine/and today Syria? Right now - Europe is a Puppet for the declining almighty 'American Dollar' - and ruled by WEF clowns pouring foreign violence into a once clean, prosperous and safe Continent - and it's not the People's fault... Who makes the rules and enforces them?
Describing the European continent as a once blah, blah, blah blah....and safe continent is simply the funniest thing.I have ever heard looking back over the history of the european continent. 😂😂😂😂
There should be a certificate awarded to people who get "That's actually a good question" from Drach in their answers! :D
Well I got a" that was really a long question" feel honored when ever Drach chooses your question to answer.
Parasocial af. The dopamine hit you get from senpai noticing you. He's a youtuber, why do you seek his intellectual validation?
@danielcaraballo113 Why do you even care? Why the snark?
Nevermind, I already know the answer.
@@danielcaraballo113 Antisocial af. The dopamine hit you get from snark. You're commenting on a youtube comment, why do you think you have anything to offer either the OP, the community, or Drac?
@@stevewhite3424 You do? You a mind reader or something? I just wanted to point out y'all are weird, I'm allowed to. Just like you're allowed to have a parasocial attachment. But you are doing it in public, so just anybody can indeed waltz by and leave their opinion, you're just gonna have to contend with that.
As I understand it, Nelson & Rodney managed such a compact citadel citadel by accepting that buoyancy would not be guaranteed, and when the USN tried to do the numbers on them they couldn't make them work because they assumed a citadel that protected buoyancy.
Drach has explained in another video that the American designers couldn't duplicate what the British were claiming for the Nelsons because they assumed that the armor belt would cover a set percentage of the ship's length. The Nelsons then came in with a shorter length of armor belt.
@@kemarisite
I also read this in Friedman’s _Illustrated Design History._
For decades US designers operated under a condition / rule that the length of the armor belt would be a percentage of overall waterline length.
If a ship uses all-forward main armament, the belt of said ship _could be_ shorter than the percentage.
That was disallowed by US design philosophy.
Also the torpedo voids were filled with water so you can't flood what's already flooded.
Great video Drach.
48:57 In 'High Seas High Risk' by Pat Wastell Norris starting at page 218 The Sudbury II (oceanic tug) was in a storm over Christmas/new years and the cook still made a 5 course dinner for the crew with the ship rolling to 50 degrees.
I think the big gain with the Nelson class as 8 gun ships would be switching to 2 quad turrets, but that would probably make them too wide.
That's hilarious about how the modern day "salute" originated & changed. Which is another thing of which I was unaware. Half awake & listening to a new Drydock and I learn something new about something old. And that happens quite frequently, which is why I keep listening.
The magnetic field is an issue in any fire control solution. Back in the day, as you said, the planetary magnetosphere was not well understood but by WWII the fire control computers (in the US- I don't know about other navies) did calculate for the ship's position on the earth. The Mark 68 GFCS, for example, was able to make those adjustments (I know from personal experience) and this system was on US warships by 1953- and it was based on WWII systems that could also do the same thing. I mean, wow. think about it. As a combat veteran fire control technician, just think about what it really takes to put a round on a target. Oh yeah, killing is a science.
That's really interesting for a knuckle dragger like me. Let's just say I'm good at long-range shots, but what you guys had to figure out is ridiculous, lol. All the tech to help do that I find interesting. I didn't know we had the capability back in WW2.
You can thank Lee for some of those details as he treated the big guns the same as one of his competition riffles and after his curvature of the Earth adjustments were included the ships that did so started setting gunnery records. In leading the Japs away at night from the rest of his squadron, he targeted their search lights with the 5" guns near range limits then slipped away. Fun Fact is the NAVY wanted to disqualify him because of bad eyes (due to a flash injury) but he kept winning gunnery championships proving he was the best despite the handicap.
I always took the salute when not having a hat on as a similar thing to the term "tugging the forelock" which I've seen in various historical books of that time period and earlier. It's a sign indicating recognition and subservience to a superior. And it seems to be pretty obvious to extend it to one removing a hat. And doffing or saluting by tipping or indicating a motion towards removing a hat makes sense as a short-cut since there are times when removing the hat would take additional time or be very inconvenient. (A sailing ship usually having wind crossing it which could blow the hat off, plus I recall hats being strapped down in poor weather or very windy conditions.)
I read somewhere that the gesture started with armoured knights raising their visors on a meeting, so that the other knight could recognise them. It also showed friendly intent. Though this was a book about soldiering. Pongos may have got it all wrong.
re: 10:46 deaths in the rigging While it's not naval service, I think that looking at Richard Henry Dana's Two Years Before the Mast is going to be illustrative, too. For those unfamiliar, it's the account of a two year voyage from Boston to the California coast, and back, around Cape Horn. During the outbound journey one of the experienced sailors falls from the rigging into the ocean, and dies. Dana describes, in detail, the way that the deceased sailor's possessions are dealt with. With the understanding that he was describing an established, and general procedure used by custom & recognized in law, aboard all American merchant shipping at the time. This was for a ship with a crew of ~14, I think. And for that part of the voyage, it was seen as unusual, but not surprising, to lose a sailor in that manner.
I don't want to suggest this for extrapolating for deaths in naval service, but to offer another bit of insight for the acceptance about the level of risk involved in getting into the rigging in all weathers.
Wonderful book- i got old copy somewhere...
@@keefymckeefface8330 I agree! It became popular because of the California Gold Rush, and I'm so glad it did. It's an absolute treasure.
I must share this quote from the section about Professor Nuttall. It's so wonderfully cynical and gladitorial:
"The Pilgrim's crew called Mr. Nuttall "Old Curious," from his zeal for curiosities; and some of them said that he was crazy, and that his friends let him go about and amuse himself this way. Why else would (he)... come to such a place as California to pick up shells and stones, they could not understand. One of them, however, who had seen something more of the world ashore said, "Oh, 'vast there!... I've seen them colleges and know the ropes. They keep all such things for cur'osities, and study 'em, and have men a purpose to go and get 'em... He'll carry all these things to the college, and if they are better than any that they have had before, he'll be head of the college. Then, by and by, somebody else will go after some more, and if they beat him he'll have to go again, or else give up his berth. That's the way they do it. This old covery knows the ropes. He has worked a traverse over 'em, and come 'way out here where nobody's ever been afore, and where they'll never think of coming." This explanation satisfied Jack; and as it raised Mr. Nuttall's credit, and was near enough to the truth for common purposes, I did not disturb it."
The book is also available via Project Gutenberg in several different formats.
Nah, it works well because Merchant Mariners and Navy Sailors at the time were basically the same people, just sailing under different paymasters and often switching between the civilian and military services on a regular basis. It is really only after the Age of Sail that we find most Navy sailors are trained entirely by the Navy to service warships, as opposed to being professional mariners who sail whatever ship is asking for crew.
Thus, the "customs and traditions" of the Merchant Mariners were mostly the same as the Navy in a given country. All the Navy really added was some extra discipline to manage the larger crew sizes and ensure battle competence.
The age of sail “slop chest” was partly filled with dead sailors clothes…
90% mortality wasn’t uncommon during exploration voyages…
Thanks Drach you always make Sunday morning fun.
52:45 I once saw a detailed attempt using modelling program to squeeze enough machinery into a Nelson to make it go in the range of 30 knots; it ended up with removing the secondaries in addition to various Other changes which were similar to what you were talking about, so one less gun, everything moved forward, etc.
Regarding the Edmund Fitzgerald, she was a "split house" ship. The deck officers generally live in the forward superstructure and the rest of the crew live in the aft superstructure. If the vessel lacks "tunnels" aka below deck fore and aft passageways it can be too rough to head aft for food.
I don't believe the lake ships have any below deck tunnels? The bulk carriers are filled with compartments for cargo. So you walk the deck.
@@WALTERBROADDUS thank you. I never sailed on a bulker or on the Great Lakes, so my comment was based on speculation.
It's my understanding they do. A friend has written a number of Great Lakes shipwreck books. One thing he describes in one book is that in heavy seas you can see the ship twisting by looking down the length of the tunnel.
@mpetersen6 that would reduce cargo space. You can just make the crew walk the deck.
When the Fitz sank she was carrying a lot more taconite than she was originally rated for.
On the subject of sails and steam engine funnels, it's only on a dead run (with the wind directly behind) that the smoke travels down the line of the ship, all other directions that you can sail it's diagonal and the smoke would be going to one side. Since the sails were a "range extender" to make up for the inefficiency and short range of early steam engines, I suspect you'd either use sails or engines, but rarely both at once.
00:58:47 In my experience, when the weather got bad, demand for meals was greatly reduced.
Best opening tune on TH-cam ever
I've been watching for a very long time and it just occurred to me how easily you give details in inches and yards instead of Cm and meters. Being from England I really appreciate your effort to make it easy for us dumb Americans.
Probably more about using whatever units period documents use than specifically catering to current day Americans..
Another reason to document cause of death relates to compensation entitlements for widows and orphans: death had to be service-related to get the payout via the Chatham Chest. I believe this typically took the form of a lump sum - not necessarily a big one by any means (probably no more than a couple month's wages) - in lieu of a pension. This was additional to pay accrued since the dead man's last pay (which was paid out to the next of kin whether service-related or not).
A fellow Chef of me served as a cook on a german frigate. He told me it depended on the duration of the heavy sea because after a few days you run out of things. He said it was impossible to grasp materials from the storages.
Thanks for answering my question!
Go forth an prosper. ... .. ... godspeed comrade!
Would it make sense to not only view battleships as pre- or post-Dreadnought, but also their small cousins the coastal defence ships? The older coastal defence ships like the Eidsvold class look a lot like pre-Dreadnought battleships, while later coastal defence ships like the Sverige class or the Väinämöinen class look similar to Dreadnoughts.
I think you've summed up my own views on Admiral Tryon, obviously trying to get Captains to use their initiative in following orders was a good thing and would have paid dividends in the long run, but as you say he should have realised much sooner what was going to happen and cancelled the manoeuvre.
Ironically it seems that in trying to teach initiative to his captains he refused to use any initiative with his own plans, following them to the letter and refusing to adapt them to the changing situation he found himself in, ultimately resulting in no action being taken to prevent his ship being lost until far too late.
Given the position his ship wound up in maybe he wanted to play Naval Lawn Darts.
28:50 My understanding of the Japanese Zero fighter was that it had a huge range, but a rather limited amount of ammunition, necessitating that fighters on CAP had to land for re-arming quite often. Perhaps having the second, smaller flight deck available only for launching replacement fighters would have helped with this.
39:40 Drach goes into detail about the living conditions on U505 compared to USS Silversides, but the thing that would have sold it for me is that Gato class subs had air conditioning. There are several accounts of Axis subs returning from long patrols and one of the first things they do is throw all the mattresses overboard because they are black and rotting from mould/damp.
57:13 On the variations of magnetic field, it is also possible that they knew it varied, but assumed that said variations would be an ideal spherical gradiation from pole to pole, as you might find in a mathematical model. Whereas the real earth is big, odd and still not entirely understood.
Define limited ammunition? Most aircraft only have ammunition for about 10 to 15 seconds continuous fire. Which is why you fire in bursts.
@@WALTERBROADDUS I don't claim any expertise here, it is something I read elsewhere. As I understand it, the Zero initially carried 60 rounds for each of the cannon, which equates to (roughly) 7 seconds of firing or 3-5 bursts. The 7.7mm machine guns carried 500 rounds, about 30 seconds of firing. But American aircraft were armoured and there are several accounts of them absorbing large amounts of MG fire. Ammunition for the cannon was upgraded in later variants to 100-round drums and then 150 (125?) - round belts.
Edit: I took a look at the Zero model types and I *think* it would have been the model 32 at Midway, which had 100 rounds for each cannon, so about 11 seconds total firing time.
The A6M Zero carried 60 rounds of ammunition for each of its two wing cannons, giving about 7 seconds continuous fire. The two smaller machine guns in the nose had more ammunition, so could continue to fire after the cannon ammunition ran out, but were far less effective. The Messerschmitt BF109E used in the battle of Britain had a similar arrangement and shared the same problem.
The primary driver for air conditioning on US submarines was electrical and electronic reliability. Wet electrical equipment (particularly with rubberised cotton insulation) tends to function “poorly”.
The Japanese aircraft carriers started with up to three flight decks but these were reduced as the required takeoff run increased.
US carriers started fitting catapults with the Essex class having up to four (two forward and two in the hangar mounted sideways).
The Japanese Zero was optimised for range and manoeuvrability above everything else. Low powered engines also fed into the need for light weight.
Incidentally, for inveterate haters of BuOrd on this channel, US flight services recognised well before they got into the war that .50 calibre MGs were a bit anaemic and planned to switch into 20mm Hispano cannons. In typical fashion, they built a lot of guns and ammo in 1941 and *then* tested them, only to find they were horribly unreliable. Someone looked at the drawings for (quite reliable) British Hispanos and discovered the firing chamber was a bit too long. Obvious response? Rebuild or find some way to shim the parts. Actual response? Muck about pointlessly with a bunch of other parts. The analogy to Mk14 torpedoes is clear.
Thanks, Drach! You've explained (I think) something that bothered me years ago when I read the Alexander Kent novels centering on the fictitious Richard Bolitho. I never understood why he used the phrase "he knuckled his brow" for saluting. I'm assuming that he's describing what you were describing - the bringing up of the curled hand to touch the head when there was no hat present. Thanks!
A thought on the citadel structures to extend fighting ability and floating of the key parts of the ship, has thought been given to shedding sections of the ship's outer hull or forecastle. An ability between bulkheads to shed dead weight from the extreme ends or the outer hull with a citadel designed to float out like a tight fitting container.
@ 28:42 Or do away with the Lower Flight Deck, Lengthen the Middle Flight Deck almost to the bow (solving the water over the bow issue) and use Catapults. (Either add forward firing Casements (IJN Kaga) or simply use the weight saved by removing four 8 inch guns (IJN Akagi) elsewhere.). And lengthening the Upper Flight deck to perhaps halfway between where the Middle Deck originally ended and the bow.
Cats should be either Compressed Air or Hydraulic since the weight of the aircraft to be launch would be much greater variance than a standard Recon Floatplane (off a Cruiser or Battleship) would ever be.... (Unless you set up a system of a base charge and extra small powder bags/rings like you have on a mortar to allow for this large range of weights... Anything else you could start either dumping planes into the ocean or literally ripping the airframes in two!)
Using either Air or Hydraulics would allow the Cat crew and the Launch Officer see the amount of pressure available for launch and could quickly be adjusted as needed if the windspeed over the Flight Deck changes. (Former USS Saratoga (CV=60) "A (Auxiliary)-Ganger)
Good explanation of the sailor salute. Honestly, I assumed it was more of a forelock tug.
With the catapult launch-from-the-hangar system you'd basically have the Battlestar Galactica Viper launch tube...:P
Actually U-505 is about equidistant from USS Silversides and USS Cobia in Manitowoc.
I remember the U505 being relatively roomy. Of course I was 8 at the time.
I've never been to Chicago, alas (but have done a quick run-through of a Gato boat because I happened to be surprised by a museum right at their closing time on an unrelated road trip), but U505 is a Type IX, which is the much larger (which ain't saying much) of the two classes the Kriegsmarine used. The VIIc of "Das Boot" fame is even smaller.
Hi Drach, maybe have a look at the description. I think there was a copy-paste mistake and the keyreturns have fallen off, causing lack of chapter generation by youtube.
Did that fix it?
It looks like it to me. I see chapter heads
For a very cool (fictional) example of a more modern carrier with a two-deck arrangement: The SHIELD helicarrier from the MCU! The original one, hull number 64, rather than the trio of later Insight carriers (which feature a single deck).
22:13 This question makes me want Drach to make a Hot or Not list of warships from different periods and rate them out of 10 just on appearance. Bringing some teen magazine energy to naval history!
having been through u 505 and USS Pampanito, it is amazing the size difference. I had to turn sideways to get between the engines and I am not a big guy.
Interesting...so the whole figuring out how everyone died part of Return of the Obra Dinn is actually historically viable? Cool!
Obviously the supernatural pocketwatch that lets you hear the moments before their death and see the moment of death, the book that can tell when you wrote down the causes of death correctly, the mysterious magical treasure and the various sea monsters are fictional but it's nice to know that there's at least one thing about it that's right other than "Yes, ships existed"
Under the segment about dumb decisions by otherwise smart admirals, I'm surprised Admiral Halsey's Grand Typhoon Excursion Parts 1 and 2 didn't at least get a mention.
Good choice.
Not really sure Halsey counts as a smart admiral otherwise; he comes across to me as something of an American Beatty.
You have no idea how often naval vessels went through bad storms in that era. No satellites back then, and they didn't understand the weather as well, so there was a lot less warning.
HMS Illustrious and escorts went through a typhoon in the Indian Ocean during WW2. This is what one of the pilots had to say:
_We spent two days and nights trying to dodge it, but it won in the end and on October 26 it hit us with all the force of nature gone stark, staring mad. It continued to hit us for three days and I have no desire to experience another. Everything about it was terrifying._ Carrier Pilot [Norman Hanson].
Notice the 'trying to dodge it' part of that quote - they did everything they could to not get caught by the storm, but they failed to escape.
Also during WW2: Japanese admiral Mineichi Koga - the successor to Yamamoto - was killed by another typhoon - not one of the storms Halsey ran into.
Just after WW2: Washington (BB), Enterprise (CV) and Portland (CA) went through an Atlantic hurricane (in the Pacific, the big storms are called typhoons, in the Atlantic hurricanes). No Halsey involvement. It was actually the second Atlantic hurricane for Enterprise, she went through another one pre-war. She came into NYC so badly damaged by the storm that it looked like the Japanese had gotten her again, Washington lost power and had to be towed, and Portland was actually reported lost, then struggled in a week late only to be immediately condemned by a Navy survey team as no longer fit for sea. This was a Magic Carpet trip, and US soldiers that had survived the war in Europe and were going home would be crippled for life or even killed by the storm. From Sweet Pea at War.
Probably lots more examples out there. Notice that all three of the major navies were taking damage and losing people from these storms.
Even today we have trouble predicting the path of those storms: a few years back lots of folks in Florida fled from the predicted path of a hurricane and ended up being caught when the storm changed course. Even just this past year, lots of people in the USA died recently from a hurricane that did far more damage than anybody expected.
Anybody operating at sea in the pre-satellite era in certain parts of the world at certain times of year was at significant risk of being caught by one of these storms. It's pure luck whether or not ships are able to escape. Halsey was not at fault for being caught by these storms. There were mistakes made, but mostly things that should have been handled at lower levels.
👍Thank you.
On the subject of submarine habitability, how did the big subs of the other naval powers (excluding one-offs or near one-offs like Suffren or the I-400s) compare to the Type IXs and Gatos?
Even on submarines of today; ergonomics and habitability are low priority. Accommodations are sparse and cramped. Machinery spaces and weapons take priority. Zero privacy. Limited personal space.
I may have missed it, but did you adjust the power on the Amp? I didn't realize it was adjustable until I read another listing for the Amp the other day... Essentially low power pulls 3.7v and amps 5db, medium 5v 10db, and high 6v 11dbm. Though they don't recommend the high setting
The ship used as illustration in Q1 is HMS Hotspur ?
Was there any precedent for a CAP-trap? Essentially, knowing you've been spotted by an enemy carrier and instead of sending a strike at them. Mobilizing your entire fighter complement for a CAP or interdiction of the strike?
At high tempo operations, you can keep about a quarter to a third of your force airborne continously at some distance from the carrier.
A strike may well include the whole enemy force.
Unless you can time your combat patrol to scramble within a tanks loiter time of the strike arriving, you might be putting yourself at a disadvantage.
Silversides Apartments. 100's of Submarines moored at docks, and 4 small apartments in each, and insane prices!
You don't like sauerkraut? If you ever get ahold of a good Reuben sandwich, you'll love it.
0:22 why is december a ketchup month?
Because he has to cut the mustard.
@@nk_3332 But we relish his answers....
Question: is there any historical example of a damaged ship listing enough that an enemy ship was able to get close enough to be under the elevation of their guns?
Not so much a question but maybe a Wed or Fri video suggestion. I was reading that early ship to ship radio was literally that, so at Tsushima the "Enemy in sight" message had to go from the aux-cruiser Shinano Maru to the cruiser Itsukushima then relayed to Mikasa. Then in 1912, ships were blasting message ocean wide and the direct messaging was gone; why Jack Phillips told Californian to shut up, because Evans nearly blew his ears off. A video about the development of wireless communication might make a good series.
Re British gun size: weren’t the problems - accurate range-taking, poor ammunition handling and faulty fuses, entirely the problem. Surely with these issues fixed, as they were, the larger gun sizes were an advantage.
What would have to change in history that allows the Wasp to be built as a Yorktown Class and how would history change with Wasp built as the third (of possibly four) Yorktown Class Carriers?
Folding plane wings. Whose idea were they? How much capability did they add to our fleets.
I've toured both _U-505_ and _USS Pampanito._ Uncle Drach is not exagerrating how much more cramped and lacking in amenities the German boat in comparison.
Number 1 reason I would pick a US sub over anyone else's sub is the Us having air conditioning .
19:00 - Isn't that doable even against a capital ship that _does_ have a citadel large enough to keep it afloat unassisted, by smashing up the ends of the ship to render it unmaneuverable and finishing it off with a few torpedoes?
Kind of, but if the citadel is unbreached guns will likely still be firing and at least in case of battleships, they outrange most torpedoes. A static battledhip that is still spitting shells at you is still doing to be very dangerous to most of your torpedo crafts.
@@michalsoukup1021 That isn't any _more_ the case for a battleship whose citadel is large enough to keep it afloat unassisted than it is for a battleship whose citadel isn't, tho.
Everyone on TH-cam says
“coup de gras”
when they mean
“coup de grâce.”
I do not know why.
The first might mean “blow of fat.” The second DEFINITELY has an s sound on the end.
Saturday night, once again!
Smart Admiral doing dumb things: Halsey dragging his fleet through a hurricane, twice?
Why was there never a chemical penetrator or HEAT shell produced for large caliber naval guns?
hell if the seas are rough enough eating will be a nonissue due to the crew being sick as a dog!!!
Why not go with the French style and have two twin-twin turrets superfiring?
That would be the better way, probably.
Then again, back when the Nelsons were designed, twin turrets were the norm and going for triples was a big step. Quads might have been a step too far at the time.
10 seconds ago posted holy
Let’s get Drach to a million subs!! Like, save to playlist, comment (even just an emoji) and download for Premiums. Let’s do this!! 1,000,000
Fun fact, I have heard that algorythm only takes comments of at least seven words long into account.
Sandwiches and mugs of tea. If you are on watch a mug of Kai
How sure are we that it doesn't take 6.02 x 10^23 Styrofoam peanuts to fill the Grand Canyon?
TIL where do salutes come from and I feel like an absolute moron for not realizing that earlier
I know that I have pestered you about this before, but seeing how it is probably about that time where you would be planning out videos for the coming April: could you please make a video based on the series lore for _Uchū Senkan Yamato_ / _Space Battleship Yamato_ for next AFD? I don't know if the English translation was ever broadcast in the UK, but in the US there were many young nerds who held a deep love of _Star Blazers_ long before the term 'anime' had reached our shores; to a child in the late 1970s and early 1980s, shows like that and the slightly earlier Battle of the Planets (which was a heavily Macek'red edit of _Kagaku Ninja-tai Gatchaman_ / Science Ninja Team Gatchaman ), it was a revelation as to what animation could be.
Tip of the hat
Does a ww2 American submarine have a ignition key ?...asking for a friend... ... ...
Nope.
Hand-crank only.
U.s.n. cobra, manitowoc wisconsin...and in a pinch u 505...metric butte servicable... ... ...
Don’t like Sauerkraut?
That’s it, unsubscribe!
😂
9:30 Stop it, Drach. This is not the first time you have demonstrated a weak understanding of sailing physics, and of the difference between true wind and apparent wind in particular. Even a wind-only square-rigged ship will frequently carry enough speed to bring the apparent wind forward of the beam - i.e. the wind that a sailor on deck would feel would often be flowing across the deck, but from somewhat forward to somewhat aft. This is despite the fact that the true wind might well be from somewhat abaft. An auxiliary steam vessel operating under sail and steam would be even more prone to carry the apparent wind forward of the beam since the auxiliary power would add to boat speed and thus bring the apparent wind even further forward, often approaching the limit of forward apparent wind in which the sails could stay filled. Your mistaken statements on sailing are not quite reaching the ridiculous levels that the _Game of Thrones_ and _House of the Dragon_ shows do, where they repeatedly show things like full sails set square while masthead pennons flow merrily aft, different characters’ hair streaming in multiple, contradictory directions, and waves (if they exist at all) moving completely independently of these wind indications, but you are getting embarrassingly close.
Do you find that your level of arrogance helps you make your point better?
Simply do not feed into his arguement as its all he has. He is not the type to helpfully educate, but rather he is the type to tear you down while he assumes it builds his image up.
If he was all that he would be on some Americas Cup Team and wouldnt have time for poor, misinformed Drach…
🤣 This is nowhere close to America’s Cup level stuff. It is elementary sailing, which is why it is so frustrating to sailors when Drach keeps giving out authoritative sounding but incorrect information.
@Mildly.Squeued He's exactly the kind of guy that will argue a speeding ticket with a cop on the side of the road with traffic whizzing by
🤣 Never have. You, on the other hand, are exactly the kind of guy who presumes to know more than he actually does. Do you find that your level of arrogance helps you make your point better?
37th, 8 December 2024
Slightly less genocidal????
You lost me with the "being on the 'slightly' less-genocidal side of the war"...
You don't get it. There is no difference between the UK/US/German/Russian/Japanese Bureaucracies other than by name.
'The Sun never sets on the British Empire" - and how much bloodshed and deprivation has that caused over the Centuries in places like Africa/middleEast/India/Australia/Canada?
Or how about the U.S.Administration's ongoing war against most of the World since 1945? Korea/Vietnam/Nicaragua/Lybia/Iraq/Iraq/Afghanistan/Ukraine/and today Syria?
Right now - Europe is a Puppet for the declining almighty 'American Dollar' - and ruled by WEF clowns pouring foreign violence into a once clean, prosperous and safe Continent - and it's not the People's fault... Who makes the rules and enforces them?
Sigh.... 🥱 You realize TH-cam is not the campus of Columbia? Could we skip the protest marches here please?
Describing the European continent as a once blah, blah, blah blah....and safe continent is simply the funniest thing.I have ever heard looking back over the history of the european continent. 😂😂😂😂