I've been studying Japanese for 8 years-ish by now and this latest videos have been actually very eye-opening. I would consider my accent quite good considering it's never been a real focus for me, it's nice to have material that explains exactly what shape your mouth/tongue should make. For example, I realized that my "shi" is slightly more towards the front then what it typically is, and that my t is slightly more back than it should be.
Lol i am learning japanese for 6 months and i am already at JLPT N3 and mastered pronounciation excluding pitch accent. And i am 12 yo. this also includes kanji. Also just started learning chinese. Not to brag tho. Totally not. Yeah totally not........ Hahahahahahhahahaaa
Japanese here. I want to add another tip for learners. The SH sound in Japanese (at least Tokyo dialect) is pronounced more front than English one. Try to say "shh" (like when you make someone not speak) and glide the narrow point a little bit forward, you will notice that the sound become higher. That is the Japanese SH sound. To be honest, we (or at least I) can easily tell if a person is a native speaker or not with this sound.
I just noticed that recently! I was surprised at how much my pronunciation improved when I made that little change. I'm so glad to hear I have indeed been doing it correctly now. Thank you! 😊
@@pepperdayjackpac4521 It's hard for me to explain it, just check these articles: English SH sound: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_postalveolar_fricative Japanese SH sound: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_fricative
As a person who's native language is phonetically closer to Japanese than English those videos actually teach me much more about how to speak English properly and explain to me why even though my English is advanced and Japanese only intermediate I still sound more natural speaking the latter. Even though that is not the intention of these videos, they cover the aspect of BOTH languages in a way that nobody does and I'd like to thank you. I'm going to practice my English pronunciation more from now on.
This short video about one of those extra vowels can quickly give an idea of why it's hard to know how to pronounce in english th-cam.com/video/qu4zyRqILYM/w-d-xo.html
This is the 2nd little video of your pitch-accent stuff I've seen and I think I'm sold on jumping on the Patreon train. This sorta stuff is INCREDIBLY useful, and while I am not necessarily aiming for perfect 100% native level of speaking (I just want to be able to communicate what I want), this stuff is still very appealing to want to learn. Keep up the great content! Been subbed for many years now but its great to see how consistent you've been with your videos!
I think there's also something to be said about the "sh" sound in し - pronouncing it like the english word "she" also gives off non-native vibes. i don't have the vocabulary for it but i feel like the "sh" in し has the tongue more forward than in "she"
し is alveolo-palatal instead of postalveolar literally look up "Alveolo-palatal consonant" on Wikipedia and it shows how your mouth should be also a little bit off-topic but Ñ (Or in the better way of writing "Nh") is alveolo-palatal the Japanese ににゃにゅにょ is purely palatal.
It's also a good idea to study the Chinese 'sh' as well. The 'sh' and 'x' are so radically different that it forces you to differentiate s-sounds and your brain will pick up on it easily after that.
one thing thats great about being a native speaker of a language that pronounces a lot of sounds in similar ways to japanese is that i rarely ever make a lot of english native speaker mistakes in terms of pronounciation still doesnt change that my japanese pronounciations probably pretty bad
These videos are always super interesting for me. English is my first language, but Spanish is my second. So when I speak Japanese, I draw more from Spanish since there are a fair amount of similarities in pronunciation. But I've never been conscious of mouth shape. Such a cool nuance to see and understand. Thank you, and best wishes!
That's super interesting cos I have Swedish, along with English, as my first language and I definitely draw from some Swedish pronunciation habits when trying to speak Japanese. English is no use at all in that regard, haha
@@trollnystan that's really cool! I can kind of see how some of it would transfer over to Japanese, and I'm really curious to hear it. I gotta say, between all those languages, that's one well trained tongue!
@@BrewSir The easiest languages to draw from are the ones that indeed also have 5 vowels. Though for spanish speakers learning new tones distributions might be hard as it has a quite regular entonation rule with the help of the accent mark, so not seeing one in japanese would make me want to stress always the second to last syllable (there are spanish words that stress the last syllable without a mark but they don't end on vowels or n)
But Telugu and Japanese sounds are similar so no big problem for me. My English pronunciation sucks though… So I feel much more confident speaking Japanese than English even though I started speaking in Japanese much later in life.
@@habibi_xd7022 I genuinely don’t think Japanese w a southern accent is funny lol, it’s usually an excuse for not speaking w a good Japanese accent, passing off one’s inability with a joke nbd tho
Fun fact: the reason for this is that the W sound in English is "U" acting like a consonant and since "U" is rounded W is also rounded however in Japanese う is not rounded thus their W is not rounded same thing happens in languages with a rounded "I" they sometimes have a rounded "Y".
Thank you, Dogen. You have just helped me enormously in understanding why my pronunciations do not sound correct despite my diligent efforts to imitate what I am hearing from a Japanese speaker. Thank you for your videos they are extremely insightful. Heading over to your page to become a patron.
OMG THANK YOU. I can always hear myself say "wuhtashi wuh." Drives me bonkers, cringing a little whenever I say it, harming my confidence in the rest of my speaking...But I hadn't been able to figure out how /not/ to do it, practice as I might. When you mentioned "atashi" it was like /DUH/, of course! I don't have a problem with saying "uh-tashi," so I can "convert" that into watashi. I've watched your comedic videos for some time and have only just started going through your Patreon content. I've been listening to Japanese media for a long time, basically since kindergarten, but haven't had any real opportunity to study the language seriously until now, in my thirties. I am SO GLAD to have come across your material at just the "right time" in my life. I've been frustrated with the beginner Japanese course I'm taking because of exactly the issues you discuss. Class sizes are too large, and time is too short for the teacher to police proper pronunciation- let alone pitch accent- before bad habits are formed. Having a class full of non-native speakers fumble through speaking exercises with each other is like the blind leading the blind. 😵 While the teacher is a native speaker, I can see her frustration in lacking a common vocabulary to discuss how to produce the sounds needed to pronounce things properly. Most people don't have any background or education in linguistics/phonetics, so her using terms like "alveolar" or "fricative" isn't going to help, it's going to make eyes glaze over. "Wuhtashi" is a great example. It might be one of the first words out of your mouth when speaking to someone, why would I want to risk a bad impression by saying it like such a noob? And yet we "wuhtashi" it up throughout every class, without the simple kind of guidance you provide in this video- something the teacher could easily provide herself, if she had the presence of mind to do so and the will to prioritize the issue. Thanks for all your hard work! I look forward to continuing to work through the Patreon content. 😊
I had my Japanese colleagues (English speaking) say watashi and water to test this out and they agreed it's different. They also mentioned how we tend to over-pronounce "し" and it made me realize we really don't focus enough on Japanese phonics do we? (we, the general foreigner). Most commonly we think of the L and R differences but not し or わ. What other sounds are we messing up? Edit: someone mentioned about し already so I guess some people do notice 😂
Just wanted to drop in and say to anyone seeing Dogen’s pitch-accent/pronunciation content for the first time, the Patreon series is absolutely PACKED with stuff like this that is a huge help for sounding natural in Japanese. I actually never finished the entire series myself, and never did the suggested “movie on repeat” repetition practice, but even now I remain subscribed just to maintain access to the course and support Dogen. I had a bit of an advantage in learning this stuff as a professional musician, but I can attest that the course content works. I get complimented on my Japanese somewhat regularly, specifically how good my pronunciation is, and have even been asked by native Japanese speakers what age I started learning at or where I studied the language. I’ve never taken a formal course, private lessons, or even had a tutor, but Dogen’s patreon is absolutely incredible at making you aware of things you’d never have imagined would matter as a native English speaker. Dogen! Hope you’re doing well with the hospital stuff, man. Keep up the great work, looking forward to your future content!
I’m a native speaker of Spanish, so when I speak Japanese I do tend to pronounce the vowels and consonants the way I would Spanish because of how close they sound to each other. Working pretty well with my online Japanese teacher at the moment.
@@ShiruSama1 That’s true. After watching this video though on Dogen explaining how to pronounce the Wa, definitely going to practice that now so it doesn’t come out as “Gua”
@@jordibernal3488 Understandable as Spanish (like a lot of languages out there) sticks closely to a set consistent standard of vowel pronunciations, unlike with English.
Every time I happen across a video like this, I’m reminded how blessed I am with my talent for picking up pronunciation. I already do all of these things subconsciously just from listening to the sound.
Same. Personally, I'm unsure about its due to the fact that I grew up in one of the most multi-cultural regions in Australia, or if its because I've visited different countries and got used to learning how to speak the language from the locals (quite a lot voluntarily helped correct my accent/pronunciation).
I find that pronunciation of foreign languages becomes much easier if you grew up dutch. We have so many weird and impossible to pronounce sounds in the language. I subconciously pronounce the japanese wa as the dutch wa, which is also without the lip rounding.
For some reason I lost touch with this channel for easily 5-8 years. I cannot believe how far you’ve come! I remember watching your campus videos doing stunts! Glad to see you stuck with Japanese and are now living the dream!
1:27 is the 'schwa'! ə Conversely to this video, I'm teaching my Japanese people to use it (or even be able to pronounce this vowel sound on command) to speak English more naturally.
Very helpful as always! On a separate note, I must say it's hilarious how your voice rises at least a solid half octave whenever you switch to Japanese LOL
Glad to know that my tutor having me repeat everything I said dozens of times got me saying this correctly. I clicked on this worried I've been saying 私 wrong the whole time. Love your channel Dogen, today was a small victory for me but I still have a long way to go.
So when I was 5-6, I took speech classes to deal with a heavy Texas Southern accent that pretty much meant I sounded like a kid version of Boomhauer off King of the Hill. Anyways, really has helped me learn proper pronunciation when I hear/see words and I was pronouncing this just fine based off of Anime that I've watched as I watch Subbed more often than Dubbed.
I had a really friendly Japanese neighbor when I was in high school who taught me from time to time; she made it a big point to tell me that Japanese is mainly spoken "inside" the mouth. For example with English she said we chew our words a lot, and if you focus on making the sounds with relaxed/neutral lips, you're more likely to sound more like a native Japanese speaker
I'm so happy I'm not a native English speaker so I don't have these problems :D The pronunciation my language has actually makes Japanese a lot easier for me since there are a lot of similarities. But of course, there are still some problems and differences here and there. However, my language is more syllable based (as Japanese is), English is just like a soup of sounds.. haha, idk how to explain that. So yeah, studying Japanese sounds and pronunciation was way easier for me than studying the English ones.
Since most westerners are probably much more likely to have exposure to the Spanish language even in passing does it help to tell people to approach voiced vowel pronunciation in a more Spanish way than the colloquial way in which English is usually spoken?
I'd say so. I took 2 years of Spanish in high school (and promptly forgot most of the words later on...) so when I took Japanese at my college & instantly recognizing the "ah, ey, ee, oh, oo" type of pronunciation similarities really helped me get the hang of how the Japanese "alphabet" works.
@@Triforce_of_Doom I took 4 semesters of German and one semester of Spanish. So, I can kind of relate to what you mean. I remember observing a tendency of Germans to keep their lips more tight to their teeth instead of protruding them in articulating what they say. Also, I recall thinking that I saw a lot more stiffness and sideways stretching of the upper lip and more up, down, and stretch movements of the lower lip. I haven't taken any Japanese classes yet, only self-studied some of it here and there.
Interesting. I lived in Japan as a kid, and I realized that I pronounce the “w” sound correctly in Japanese. But you pronounced the “I” sound at the end of the word. I never pronounce that. Maybe that’s a relic of my Tohoku-ben. Finally, I don’t find that I ever say “watasi” much when I speak Japanese. Sometimes with friends I say “boku.” But in situations where “watasi” would be used, I feel that it should not be used.
I follow Norm and I guess that's why your new home tour came up and I'm so glad it did! My dad was career US Navy and spent a lot of time in Japan. He was a jokester and would put his hands on his hips and declare, "I am the Big Watashi!" Here I am over 50yrs later and finding out what it meant and how to say it correctly! Lol
This is fascinating to see broken down. I'm a native speaker of both English and Japanese (moved to Japan at the age of 4 and attended Japanese public schools before moving back to the states in high school) and when teaching my husband and kids Japanese words I have a hard time figuring out how to explain the mechanics of proper pronunciation. Moreso my husband, as the kids are better observers and more flexible linguistically so they pick it up pretty well if I demonstrate slowly and clearly. My oldest though is interested in studying Japanese as his foreign language credit in high school (he's going into 7th grade now) so your Patreon might be especially useful to him as a supplemental resource.
I studied Japanese in Tokyo for about a year, with most other people being from various Asian countries, and then also a bunch of people from America. I myself am from the Netherlands. It was really interesting to hear how people from some countries would consistently make specific mistakes in pronunciation. As I remember, people from China would regularly confuse 'ai' with 'ei', and people from the US definitely had a bit of an accent and sometimes couldn't properly enunciate the difference between "kawaii" and "kowai". Trying to break out of pronunciation patterns from your native language is a very real thing.
The (correct) lack of lip rounding also goes for the sibilant consonant in the final syllable/mora (shi), as English "shi" also contains lip rounding, which is not found in the Japanese analogue.
easier way is to think of it as something like the korean "ssi" rather than "shi" it's like a "ssi" that's inching towards "shi" if that ever makes any sense lmfao
It's definitely tricky if you were not introduced to different languages at a younger age. I'm able to do it because Arabic was one of the languages I grew up learning, and that language is very strict when it comes to accentuating parts of the word.
How not to say "watashi" like an American: 1. Don't round your protrude lips 2. Don't say "waTAshi" 3. Say "あ" rather than "uh" And 4. Don't use the word "watashi"
I have a great ear for vocals I've noticed whenever I listen to Japanese speakers from say 実況動画 content that's easy to search on TH-cam, I noticed this difference without the need to become aware of it. Since I'm a disabled learner my particular needs are different from the average. 自分は診断になった自閉症を受けることできた2017年前ほどです。 It's social cues I have difficulty on, just like with Asperger's/autistic japanese people learning English I tend to take things literally in Japanese, I've grown accustomed to English so all of those idioms and such I've made myself aware of overtime however with Japanese with my current stage I am going to take most things literally.
This is a great video, I think this word can often feel unwieldy because the word for "I" in many other languages is often very short and just one or two sounds, so Watashi feels very long and unnatural in comparison. This video definitely helps me a lot
Thank you for the video and tips! I started noticing the difference in the "w" when I tried to pronounce the country name, "Sweden" in a Japanese way, according to the JPDB dictionary online. I practiced saying "Sweden" over and over again. Eventually, I made a note in the Anki card to partially skip over the "w" sound after the "S", or like make it a "gentler w." Now this video helps me to realize I was on the right track! I saw a comedy video (youtube short) where a Japanese young woman was pretending to be a cashier who didn't understand what an American guy was saying when he was speaking Japanese. It was obvious that the comedy sketch was inspired by a real-life experience, and ever since I saw that, I wondered if it had something to do with the shape of his mouth when he said the vowels. I'd be willing to guess that the Japanese people take cues not just on the sound of words, but the shape of people's mouths, as well. It even took me a few moments to realize he was speaking Japanese in the video, lol (I think the video is called "When a Foreigner speaks Japanese in Japan").
Super funny coinkidink, being a native finnish speaker has the perk of having most of these sounds, vowel lengths, lsck of accent and japanese t-sounds etc. come naturally as we also have single sound for each letter and thus reading romanized japanese in finnish way sounds pretty close to japanese. All that said I don't speak japanese, I just can sorta cheat pronouncing it mostly right 😅
I have to wonder if my childhood exposure to Filipino and later adolescent exposure to Spanish helped me with the vowels as they're all the same five a, e, i, o, and u. The syllabic structure and cadence is similar, too. Japanese pitch accent is something I've never been aware of until recently though.
wuhtashi does not have that problem, since I am not German, but yeah, I know quite a few Americans that struggle with this issue. Very recognizable. Great video!
Realizing that native English speakers do the rounded lip thing for W sounds and Japanese don't makes the spelling of things like White Day ホワイトデー make more sense. I guess in order to mimic that rounded lip sound they have to put ホ in front of the ワ. Neat!
That one is more because white has been transcribed from English with a pronounced H (there are English dialects where "wh" is pronounced as "hw"). Other transcriptions such as ワルド (world) lack the ホ.
as someone who learned english in 5th grade after learning chinese, this is helping me say my "w"s in english better. I've never rounded my mouth like that lol
Another japanese speaking channel I follow suggests to pronounce the consonant sounds using the mouth shape for the vowel sound that follows, so a full row of the kana can basically be spoken without moving your lips (except for the ma-mi-mu-me-mo column, since you need to close your lips). I guess that'd the general rule of thumb for the "no rounding" issue?
Btw this sound you were referring to as “uh” is called “shwa”, I believe. The kind of sound without an accent on it. Like every second sound in russian words.
I just became conscious of the lips thing when saying English w sounds, but I seem to be able to pronounce わ properly. Turn out my native language also doesn't have much lip action when making a w sound and I've been subconsciously making different lip movements when speaking English vs my native language! I never would have noticed it
Thank you for putting this mistake to words. It's definitely one of those things that, even if you can pinpoint what's wrong, it's hard to put it into words that are actually useful for learning. (It's also a pretty telling spot when listening to Japanese actors fake American-accented Japanese. Always fun to listen to.) For future lessons, the pitch accent of names might be a good topic to cover. Similar to wuhTAshi, there's a lot of uhKEEruh (Akira) that could use some well-worded correcting.
Everything I need to know about Japanese pronouns, I learned from Cool Hand Luke and War Games. “Sometimes nothing is a real cool hand.” “Sometimes the only way to win is not to play the game.” “How about a nice game of thermonuclear pronouns?” “No.”
As a spansih Speaker, I loved when the teacher asks me if I've been to Japan before and the dirty looks by my English classmates. The downside is... I get Jouzu'd a lot.
Funny how all of this comes really naturally for Norwegian speakers; our "v" sound is between english "v" and "w" and unrounded, and Norwegian vowels are very similar to Japanese and we also have pitch accent.
Japanese pronunciation lessons: www.patreon.com/dogen
Big new video coming soon!
I've been studying Japanese for 8 years-ish by now and this latest videos have been actually very eye-opening. I would consider my accent quite good considering it's never been a real focus for me, it's nice to have material that explains exactly what shape your mouth/tongue should make. For example, I realized that my "shi" is slightly more towards the front then what it typically is, and that my t is slightly more back than it should be.
Than* (:
Lol i am learning japanese for 6 months and i am already at JLPT N3 and mastered pronounciation excluding pitch accent. And i am 12 yo. this also includes kanji. Also just started learning chinese. Not to brag tho. Totally not. Yeah totally not........ Hahahahahahhahahaaa
@@TheseksiXae look at this guy lol
@@TheseksiXae "leaening" oof
@@TheseksiXae good for you! Keep it up!
Japanese here. I want to add another tip for learners. The SH sound in Japanese (at least Tokyo dialect) is pronounced more front than English one. Try to say "shh" (like when you make someone not speak) and glide the narrow point a little bit forward, you will notice that the sound become higher. That is the Japanese SH sound.
To be honest, we (or at least I) can easily tell if a person is a native speaker or not with this sound.
I just noticed that recently! I was surprised at how much my pronunciation improved when I made that little change. I'm so glad to hear I have indeed been doing it correctly now. Thank you! 😊
Happy to know I’ve been doing this subconsciously already, despite only learning Japanese in a high school classroom for a couple years :0
Wdym by “glide the narrow point a little bit forward?”
@@pepperdayjackpac4521
It's hard for me to explain it, just check these articles:
English SH sound:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_postalveolar_fricative
Japanese SH sound:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_fricative
Do you have any tips for how to say the Japanese "R"? Like in Ramen.
This really helped me notice I've been saying "wutashi" the entire time until now
wuたしも
@@markdavis2934 wəたʃiも*
Myself too
@@kakahass8845 あ！そdeskあ？うreeぐと！
do you know your dialect? i never reduced non final As in japanese
As a person who's native language is phonetically closer to Japanese than English those videos actually teach me much more about how to speak English properly and explain to me why even though my English is advanced and Japanese only intermediate I still sound more natural speaking the latter. Even though that is not the intention of these videos, they cover the aspect of BOTH languages in a way that nobody does and I'd like to thank you. I'm going to practice my English pronunciation more from now on.
This short video about one of those extra vowels can quickly give an idea of why it's hard to know how to pronounce in english th-cam.com/video/qu4zyRqILYM/w-d-xo.html
I'm second you on that
Indeed
I felt the same as a Turkish
@@pokuman2666 as a tip for some english grammar, for someone whom is from turkey, they are Turkish, but they are not a Turkish, they are a turk
This is the 2nd little video of your pitch-accent stuff I've seen and I think I'm sold on jumping on the Patreon train. This sorta stuff is INCREDIBLY useful, and while I am not necessarily aiming for perfect 100% native level of speaking (I just want to be able to communicate what I want), this stuff is still very appealing to want to learn.
Keep up the great content! Been subbed for many years now but its great to see how consistent you've been with your videos!
Glad to hear that and looking forward to you over there!
I think there's also something to be said about the "sh" sound in し - pronouncing it like the english word "she" also gives off non-native vibes. i don't have the vocabulary for it but i feel like the "sh" in し has the tongue more forward than in "she"
し is alveolo-palatal instead of postalveolar literally look up "Alveolo-palatal consonant" on Wikipedia and it shows how your mouth should be also a little bit off-topic but Ñ (Or in the better way of writing "Nh") is alveolo-palatal the Japanese ににゃにゅにょ is purely palatal.
yeah, it reminds me a bit of the chinese "x" sound that many foreigners don't quite get right.
@@genericembarrassingusernam7843 Retroflex AKA with the tip of your tongue touching the roof of the mouth.
@@genericembarrassingusernam7843 i pronounce it exactly like the chinese x
It's also a good idea to study the Chinese 'sh' as well. The 'sh' and 'x' are so radically different that it forces you to differentiate s-sounds and your brain will pick up on it easily after that.
one thing thats great about being a native speaker of a language that pronounces a lot of sounds in similar ways to japanese is that i rarely ever make a lot of english native speaker mistakes in terms of pronounciation
still doesnt change that my japanese pronounciations probably pretty bad
Portuguese has all of the same sounds.
Is it a romance language?
@@LucyLerma You bet it probably is. English did a number on itself with the great vowel shift, also completely out of the blue
Samee
So weird how the most popular language in the world is so different.
These videos are always super interesting for me. English is my first language, but Spanish is my second. So when I speak Japanese, I draw more from Spanish since there are a fair amount of similarities in pronunciation. But I've never been conscious of mouth shape. Such a cool nuance to see and understand. Thank you, and best wishes!
@@ムャlechat That's a very good point! English is such a departure phonetically speaking.
English and Spanish are my two first languages and while trying to learn Japanese I can confirm I use more of my Spanish speaking habits over English.
That's super interesting cos I have Swedish, along with English, as my first language and I definitely draw from some Swedish pronunciation habits when trying to speak Japanese. English is no use at all in that regard, haha
@@trollnystan that's really cool! I can kind of see how some of it would transfer over to Japanese, and I'm really curious to hear it. I gotta say, between all those languages, that's one well trained tongue!
@@BrewSir The easiest languages to draw from are the ones that indeed also have 5 vowels. Though for spanish speakers learning new tones distributions might be hard as it has a quite regular entonation rule with the help of the accent mark, so not seeing one in japanese would make me want to stress always the second to last syllable (there are spanish words that stress the last syllable without a mark but they don't end on vowels or n)
これ系の動画、マジで日本人にも役に立つ
逆のことすれば、ワ行じゃなくてwを発音できるようになるから
私も、同じ意味で観始めました。
日本語の発音を知ることで
英語の発音の特長を知ることができます。
My biggest issue is that I revert to my native Telugu accent when I speak a non-English language, which no one understands the origin of 🥴
A fellow Telugu watcher of Dogen damn!
But Telugu and Japanese sounds are similar so no big problem for me.
My English pronunciation sucks though…
So I feel much more confident speaking Japanese than English even though I started speaking in Japanese much later in life.
@@sindhurtej9638 haha there's lots of us!
@@balusurisetti Yeah both having syllabaries makes the pronunciations feel similar
I do the same with a Russian accent!
I have a Japanese cousin and he thinks it's hilarious when I speak Japanese with a super exaggerated southern American accent 😂😂
Not funny didn’t laugh
@@DengueBurger look who's having a bad day? xD
@@DengueBurger ok? good for u I guess?
@@habibi_xd7022 I genuinely don’t think Japanese w a southern accent is funny lol, it’s usually an excuse for not speaking w a good Japanese accent, passing off one’s inability with a joke
nbd tho
Now that reminds me of Filthy Frank’s Japanese 101: Hot Dog video where he intentionally mispronounces “hotto-dogu” lmao
『わ』の音でよくある間違いを指摘していただき、ありがとうございました。その為に私の視野を広げるだけでなくて、発音について理解も深めるのにとても役に立ちました。
また、きれいな剃立て顔つきはとても似合っていますね。
¨Try to say it like a robot... or a Japanese person for that matter.¨
I never knew I was saying the わ sound strangely until now… very useful!
Fun fact: the reason for this is that the W sound in English is "U" acting like a consonant and since "U" is rounded W is also rounded however in Japanese う is not rounded thus their W is not rounded same thing happens in languages with a rounded "I" they sometimes have a rounded "Y".
Wuhtashi: the revenge of the schwa!
Seriously though, thanks for the three helpful tips!
REVENGE OF THE SCHWA OMGGG
I cannot believe that made me laugh like it did. Cringe. 😂
you saying "wake up" 4 times in a row getting more and more firm triggerd dream reality confusion in me🤣
Thank you, Dogen. You have just helped me enormously in understanding why my pronunciations do not sound correct despite my diligent efforts to imitate what I am hearing from a Japanese speaker.
Thank you for your videos they are extremely insightful. Heading over to your page to become a patron.
"Whuh-TA-she wha Amanda dess"
OMG THANK YOU.
I can always hear myself say "wuhtashi wuh." Drives me bonkers, cringing a little whenever I say it, harming my confidence in the rest of my speaking...But I hadn't been able to figure out how /not/ to do it, practice as I might.
When you mentioned "atashi" it was like /DUH/, of course! I don't have a problem with saying "uh-tashi," so I can "convert" that into watashi.
I've watched your comedic videos for some time and have only just started going through your Patreon content.
I've been listening to Japanese media for a long time, basically since kindergarten, but haven't had any real opportunity to study the language seriously until now, in my thirties. I am SO GLAD to have come across your material at just the "right time" in my life.
I've been frustrated with the beginner Japanese course I'm taking because of exactly the issues you discuss. Class sizes are too large, and time is too short for the teacher to police proper pronunciation- let alone pitch accent- before bad habits are formed. Having a class full of non-native speakers fumble through speaking exercises with each other is like the blind leading the blind. 😵 While the teacher is a native speaker, I can see her frustration in lacking a common vocabulary to discuss how to produce the sounds needed to pronounce things properly. Most people don't have any background or education in linguistics/phonetics, so her using terms like "alveolar" or "fricative" isn't going to help, it's going to make eyes glaze over.
"Wuhtashi" is a great example. It might be one of the first words out of your mouth when speaking to someone, why would I want to risk a bad impression by saying it like such a noob? And yet we "wuhtashi" it up throughout every class, without the simple kind of guidance you provide in this video- something the teacher could easily provide herself, if she had the presence of mind to do so and the will to prioritize the issue.
Thanks for all your hard work! I look forward to continuing to work through the Patreon content. 😊
Looks like Dogen's content is a much needed resource for Japanese language teachers.
@@thairinkhudr4259 uP
I had my Japanese colleagues (English speaking) say watashi and water to test this out and they agreed it's different.
They also mentioned how we tend to over-pronounce "し" and it made me realize we really don't focus enough on Japanese phonics do we? (we, the general foreigner).
Most commonly we think of the L and R differences but not し or わ.
What other sounds are we messing up?
Edit: someone mentioned about し already so I guess some people do notice 😂
Well most English speakers aspirate the voiceless plosives P, T and K and pronounce に like a normal N so 2 more things people don't usually notice.
Accent is probably the main thing in Dogen 's channel.
ふ is not /fuː/ !
@@JivanPal And ひ is not /hi/ it's /çi/.
@@kakahass8845 , conveniently enough, British English speakers pronounce ひ correctly half the time, because /hj/ is realised as such.
I'm really enjoying these short, targeted pronunciation improvements. Thanks!
Just wanted to drop in and say to anyone seeing Dogen’s pitch-accent/pronunciation content for the first time, the Patreon series is absolutely PACKED with stuff like this that is a huge help for sounding natural in Japanese. I actually never finished the entire series myself, and never did the suggested “movie on repeat” repetition practice, but even now I remain subscribed just to maintain access to the course and support Dogen.
I had a bit of an advantage in learning this stuff as a professional musician, but I can attest that the course content works. I get complimented on my Japanese somewhat regularly, specifically how good my pronunciation is, and have even been asked by native Japanese speakers what age I started learning at or where I studied the language. I’ve never taken a formal course, private lessons, or even had a tutor, but Dogen’s patreon is absolutely incredible at making you aware of things you’d never have imagined would matter as a native English speaker.
Dogen! Hope you’re doing well with the hospital stuff, man. Keep up the great work, looking forward to your future content!
I’m a native speaker of Spanish, so when I speak Japanese I do tend to pronounce the vowels and consonants the way I would Spanish because of how close they sound to each other. Working pretty well with my online Japanese teacher at the moment.
Yeah, the vowels are easy for us. But I guess many people would say "guatashi" the same way English speakers tend to be closer to "buatashi" 🤔
@@ShiruSama1 That’s true. After watching this video though on Dogen explaining how to pronounce the Wa, definitely going to practice that now so it doesn’t come out as “Gua”
@@jordibernal3488 Understandable as Spanish (like a lot of languages out there) sticks closely to a set consistent standard of vowel pronunciations, unlike with English.
Every time I happen across a video like this, I’m reminded how blessed I am with my talent for picking up pronunciation. I already do all of these things subconsciously just from listening to the sound.
Same for me
Same. Personally, I'm unsure about its due to the fact that I grew up in one of the most multi-cultural regions in Australia, or if its because I've visited different countries and got used to learning how to speak the language from the locals (quite a lot voluntarily helped correct my accent/pronunciation).
Thanks Dōgen, super useful tips as always.
Hope you're feeling better and are able to escape the storage closet!
I find that pronunciation of foreign languages becomes much easier if you grew up dutch. We have so many weird and impossible to pronounce sounds in the language. I subconciously pronounce the japanese wa as the dutch wa, which is also without the lip rounding.
thanks for the quick pronunciation lesson, dogen.
Thank you!! I was always told I had great pronunciation in class but there’s always these little things to improve on that I want to know
"If you're a native English speaker..."
I don't have such weaknesses
For some reason I lost touch with this channel for easily 5-8 years. I cannot believe how far you’ve come! I remember watching your campus videos doing stunts! Glad to see you stuck with Japanese and are now living the dream!
Finally caught up with your videos ! Thank you for your contents, and I wish you a good recovery !
日本人としても英語の発音のクセを知れてとても面白かったです！ありがとう！
I like this new video format. It feels more personal. The wide lens is good, too, IMO.
1:27 is the 'schwa'! ə
Conversely to this video, I'm teaching my Japanese people to use it (or even be able to pronounce this vowel sound on command) to speak English more naturally.
/wəˈtɑːʃi/ moment
this is really good and useful advice to come back to in the future. rn as a beginner i barely hear the difference tbh
Thank you Dogen! One of the rarer cases when not being a native speaker of English is actually a benefit
Very helpful as always! On a separate note, I must say it's hilarious how your voice rises at least a solid half octave whenever you switch to Japanese LOL
確かにｗａｋｅのＷａは、わＷａじゃない！
けど、それに気がついて丁寧に解説してる道元さん凄い
Glad to know that my tutor having me repeat everything I said dozens of times got me saying this correctly. I clicked on this worried I've been saying 私 wrong the whole time. Love your channel Dogen, today was a small victory for me but I still have a long way to go.
This was very useful, thank you
So when I was 5-6, I took speech classes to deal with a heavy Texas Southern accent that pretty much meant I sounded like a kid version of Boomhauer off King of the Hill. Anyways, really has helped me learn proper pronunciation when I hear/see words and I was pronouncing this just fine based off of Anime that I've watched as I watch Subbed more often than Dubbed.
I had a really friendly Japanese neighbor when I was in high school who taught me from time to time; she made it a big point to tell me that Japanese is mainly spoken "inside" the mouth. For example with English she said we chew our words a lot, and if you focus on making the sounds with relaxed/neutral lips, you're more likely to sound more like a native Japanese speaker
I love how professional and informative these videos are, and then you get to the end and that suspenseful sound goes off. XD
Quite useful, Dogen, thanks! Also, props to what I think is the Motoko Kusanagi pic in the background. XD
I'm so happy I'm not a native English speaker so I don't have these problems :D The pronunciation my language has actually makes Japanese a lot easier for me since there are a lot of similarities. But of course, there are still some problems and differences here and there. However, my language is more syllable based (as Japanese is), English is just like a soup of sounds.. haha, idk how to explain that. So yeah, studying Japanese sounds and pronunciation was way easier for me than studying the English ones.
Since most westerners are probably much more likely to have exposure to the Spanish language even in passing does it help to tell people to approach voiced vowel pronunciation in a more Spanish way than the colloquial way in which English is usually spoken?
It would. Spanish and Japanese have the same vowels, except for う, which also has unrounded lips
I'd say so. I took 2 years of Spanish in high school (and promptly forgot most of the words later on...) so when I took Japanese at my college & instantly recognizing the "ah, ey, ee, oh, oo" type of pronunciation similarities really helped me get the hang of how the Japanese "alphabet" works.
@@Triforce_of_Doom I took 4 semesters of German and one semester of Spanish. So, I can kind of relate to what you mean. I remember observing a tendency of Germans to keep their lips more tight to their teeth instead of protruding them in articulating what they say. Also, I recall thinking that I saw a lot more stiffness and sideways stretching of the upper lip and more up, down, and stretch movements of the lower lip. I haven't taken any Japanese classes yet, only self-studied some of it here and there.
@@anthonynelson6671 ないす
@@ADeeSHUPA あざっす
This is great info, thank you! I'll have to be sure I keep an ear out to make sure I'm saying this (and other) words correctly
I want that Kusanagi Motoko picture, frame included.
That was really helpful!!! Thank you!
Now I fully understand how to pronounce “watashi” like american.
Interesting. I lived in Japan as a kid, and I realized that I pronounce the “w” sound correctly in Japanese. But you pronounced the “I” sound at the end of the word. I never pronounce that. Maybe that’s a relic of my Tohoku-ben. Finally, I don’t find that I ever say “watasi” much when I speak Japanese. Sometimes with friends I say “boku.” But in situations where “watasi” would be used, I feel that it should not be used.
watash
I follow Norm and I guess that's why your new home tour came up and I'm so glad it did! My dad was career US Navy and spent a lot of time in Japan. He was a jokester and would put his hands on his hips and declare, "I am the Big Watashi!" Here I am over 50yrs later and finding out what it meant and how to say it correctly! Lol
This is fascinating to see broken down. I'm a native speaker of both English and Japanese (moved to Japan at the age of 4 and attended Japanese public schools before moving back to the states in high school) and when teaching my husband and kids Japanese words I have a hard time figuring out how to explain the mechanics of proper pronunciation. Moreso my husband, as the kids are better observers and more flexible linguistically so they pick it up pretty well if I demonstrate slowly and clearly. My oldest though is interested in studying Japanese as his foreign language credit in high school (he's going into 7th grade now) so your Patreon might be especially useful to him as a supplemental resource.
I studied Japanese in Tokyo for about a year, with most other people being from various Asian countries, and then also a bunch of people from America. I myself am from the Netherlands. It was really interesting to hear how people from some countries would consistently make specific mistakes in pronunciation. As I remember, people from China would regularly confuse 'ai' with 'ei', and people from the US definitely had a bit of an accent and sometimes couldn't properly enunciate the difference between "kawaii" and "kowai". Trying to break out of pronunciation patterns from your native language is a very real thing.
Love your Ilya Kushinov GitS poster behind you!
Another very helpful video, thanks for this!
Quick correction; the "わたし" part of 私 is often silent. :D
This was super helpful! Thanks! Gotta say that it’s trippy hearing you speak English lol.
The (correct) lack of lip rounding also goes for the sibilant consonant in the final syllable/mora (shi), as English "shi" also contains lip rounding, which is not found in the Japanese analogue.
easier way is to think of it as something like the korean "ssi" rather than "shi"
it's like a "ssi" that's inching towards "shi" if that ever makes any sense lmfao
Great tip! These little lessons are very helpful.
It's definitely tricky if you were not introduced to different languages at a younger age. I'm able to do it because Arabic was one of the languages I grew up learning, and that language is very strict when it comes to accentuating parts of the word.
you're the best! thank you!!!
As a a native Spanish and English speaker who loves Japanese shows and anime, Japanese pronunciation comes so easy to me.
How not to say "watashi" like an American:
1. Don't round your protrude lips
2. Don't say "waTAshi"
3. Say "あ" rather than "uh"
And 4. Don't use the word "watashi"
The comment I was looking for.
@Soyel We know that, it's just meming about how people use it way more often than they should.
Thank you! I can learn a lot from your videos.
I have a great ear for vocals I've noticed whenever I listen to Japanese speakers from say 実況動画 content that's easy to search on TH-cam, I noticed this difference without the need to become aware of it. Since I'm a disabled learner my particular needs are different from the average.
自分は診断になった自閉症を受けることできた2017年前ほどです。
It's social cues I have difficulty on, just like with Asperger's/autistic japanese people learning English I tend to take things literally in Japanese, I've grown accustomed to English so all of those idioms and such I've made myself aware of overtime however with Japanese with my current stage I am going to take most things literally.
This is a great video, I think this word can often feel unwieldy because the word for "I" in many other languages is often very short and just one or two sounds, so Watashi feels very long and unnatural in comparison. This video definitely helps me a lot
Thank you for the video and tips! I started noticing the difference in the "w" when I tried to pronounce the country name, "Sweden" in a Japanese way, according to the JPDB dictionary online. I practiced saying "Sweden" over and over again. Eventually, I made a note in the Anki card to partially skip over the "w" sound after the "S", or like make it a "gentler w." Now this video helps me to realize I was on the right track!
I saw a comedy video (youtube short) where a Japanese young woman was pretending to be a cashier who didn't understand what an American guy was saying when he was speaking Japanese. It was obvious that the comedy sketch was inspired by a real-life experience, and ever since I saw that, I wondered if it had something to do with the shape of his mouth when he said the vowels. I'd be willing to guess that the Japanese people take cues not just on the sound of words, but the shape of people's mouths, as well. It even took me a few moments to realize he was speaking Japanese in the video, lol (I think the video is called "When a Foreigner speaks Japanese in Japan").
Thank you, Dogen.
That panda box... Is Dogen moving out? ^^;
I knew something felt so off about how i said it but i had no idea how to correct it. This is great
Good shit good shit. I’ll practice that. Hopefully I can take that advice on the W sounds and translate that into other words.
Super funny coinkidink, being a native finnish speaker has the perk of having most of these sounds, vowel lengths, lsck of accent and japanese t-sounds etc. come naturally as we also have single sound for each letter and thus reading romanized japanese in finnish way sounds pretty close to japanese.
All that said I don't speak japanese, I just can sorta cheat pronouncing it mostly right 😅
Darn it Dogen. Click Dogen, expect serious vid. Get jokes. Click Dogen, expect joke vid, get serious helpful vid. Can never predict right.
My prediction is that Dogen won't be uploading any more joke videos until after he has got his health problem sorted out.
I have to wonder if my childhood exposure to Filipino and later adolescent exposure to Spanish helped me with the vowels as they're all the same five a, e, i, o, and u. The syllabic structure and cadence is similar, too. Japanese pitch accent is something I've never been aware of until recently though.
wuhtashi does not have that problem, since I am not German, but yeah, I know quite a few Americans that struggle with this issue. Very recognizable. Great video!
aaaaugghh that W has helped me a lot, i always wondered why i sounded so goofy
Realizing that native English speakers do the rounded lip thing for W sounds and Japanese don't makes the spelling of things like White Day ホワイトデー make more sense. I guess in order to mimic that rounded lip sound they have to put ホ in front of the ワ. Neat!
That one is more because white has been transcribed from English with a pronounced H (there are English dialects where "wh" is pronounced as "hw"). Other transcriptions such as ワルド (world) lack the ホ.
Basically the h isn't silent in British and other foreign dialects of English
i like that "quick video" vibe.
Step 1: stop Anglicizing everything
Step 2: you are now native
To me, as a Portuguese speaker, it's pretty easy. Similar sounds.
Verdade!
Yeah... But the pro tip is to not use watashi in the first place 😉
i’m gonna turn notifications off and back on, been missing a lot of content
as someone who learned english in 5th grade after learning chinese, this is helping me say my "w"s in english better. I've never rounded my mouth like that lol
Another japanese speaking channel I follow suggests to pronounce the consonant sounds using the mouth shape for the vowel sound that follows, so a full row of the kana can basically be spoken without moving your lips (except for the ma-mi-mu-me-mo column, since you need to close your lips). I guess that'd the general rule of thumb for the "no rounding" issue?
This was a Gotcha video, the right way to say 私, is ドゲン as in ドゲンはかっこいいですね！笑
Thanks!
Btw this sound you were referring to as “uh” is called “shwa”, I believe. The kind of sound without an accent on it. Like every second sound in russian words.
thank you dogen!
I just became conscious of the lips thing when saying English w sounds, but I seem to be able to pronounce わ properly. Turn out my native language also doesn't have much lip action when making a w sound and I've been subconsciously making different lip movements when speaking English vs my native language! I never would have noticed it
Thank you for putting this mistake to words. It's definitely one of those things that, even if you can pinpoint what's wrong, it's hard to put it into words that are actually useful for learning. (It's also a pretty telling spot when listening to Japanese actors fake American-accented Japanese. Always fun to listen to.)
For future lessons, the pitch accent of names might be a good topic to cover. Similar to wuhTAshi, there's a lot of uhKEEruh (Akira) that could use some well-worded correcting.
Everything I need to know about Japanese pronouns, I learned from Cool Hand Luke and War Games.
“Sometimes nothing is a real cool hand.”
“Sometimes the only way to win is not to play the game.”
“How about a nice game of thermonuclear pronouns?”
“No.”
Okay but how do i perfectly recreate Yoshi’s voice like you?
As a spansih Speaker, I loved when the teacher asks me if I've been to Japan before and the dirty looks by my English classmates. The downside is... I get Jouzu'd a lot.
I haven't researched how to learn anything Japanese for 10 years, so I don't know how I got recommended this, but it was cool.
Funny how all of this comes really naturally for Norwegian speakers; our "v" sound is between english "v" and "w" and unrounded, and Norwegian vowels are very similar to Japanese and we also have pitch accent.
I've definitely been saying 私 this way. Thanks!
I avoid the problem entirely by simply sticking to "おれ". Definitely some solid tips in this vid though.
You could also just say ore