RCS vs iMessage: The REAL Problem of Privacy
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2023
- Green bubbles vs Blue bubbles? iMessage vs Google Messages? Or is this really a conversation we should be having about RCS, MLS, and privacy when it comes to messaging? The less companies play nice with each other, the more vulnerable we are.
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Source links:
www.androidpolice.com/google-...
www.theverge.com/2023/7/20/23...
beebom.com/google-messages-ml...
security.googleblog.com/2023/...
fagenwasanni.com/ai/google-me...
support.google.com/messages/t...
www.theverge.com/2022/9/7/233...
www.wsj.com/articles/why-appl...
www.businessinsider.com/apple...
businessday.ng/technology/art...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMessage
messages.google.com/
support.google.com/messages/a...
signal.org/
signal.org/blog/sms-removal-a...
www.android.com/get-the-message/
www.theverge.com/2021/10/7/22...
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The problem with using a third party app for messaging is trying convince others to also use it. People here in the States will just use what comes with there phones, most are not going to download a whole other app and set up an account just to talk to one person. This is why standards are important.
I've had no problem getting people to use Signal. Maybe the people in my circle value privacy more, but even people I consider very naive technically had no problem downloading and using it.
I think it's more so a matter of awareness. Whenever I tell people about signal, they are intrigued And i'm pretty sure they could be convinced to use it.
In Russia, RCS is only available for some Samsungs bc Google abandoned us, so we use messengers all the way. Old people use whatsapp, while youth uses Telegram and Discord
@@KirikkSiSq that's a huge problem. Your telecoms should be the ones supporting RCS, the same way they support SMS/MMS. They shouldn't need Google.
People outside America mostly use WhatsApp aka Facebook. 0 security, you're literally downloading a rat that turns people's camera on, on the toilet. So you're not missing out on much.
This is exactly why Signal needs to go back to SMS support. Cross platform, and was transparent SMS vs Whisper.
Agreed!!!
There’s an anti-trust lawsuit out there that is going to force apple to let you select the default messaging app like they do with maps, music, and other key functions. The goal should be improving privacy not improving brand loyalty.
That's good, i'm not an rcs fan, cause rcs(imessage is too) is proprietary, so google has control over who can make apps for rcs messaging, with that being said, they can deny someone from having permissions to develop rcs apps.
It's time all messaging apps were cross compatible like emails so that it doesn't matter which one you choose to use you can receive messages from all other messaging apps & have them all encrypted.
@@Look_What_You_Didlife isn't secure. Security is an illusion.
The best way to make the entire internet safer for all is to introduce a total outright ban on the collection, selling, sharing of private/personal information by all websites, search engines etc & a complete ban on all unsolicited advertising.
A BIG YES TO CROSS PLATFORM ENCRYPTION... THANK YOU SHANNON FOR THE HEADS UP!!!!
Keep up the great info-torials! :))
You are so welcome!
This is yet another reason for the necessity of competitive compatibility legislation. EU legislation is forcing USB-C and user-replaceable batteries into iPhones (at least in the EU, though such laws can and should be mirrored elsewhere). Legislation can and should likewise compel Apple to implement RCS.
And while we're at it, since the problem company in this case is Apple, let's get right to repair as well.
Unfortunately the EU ruled in favor of Apple today. They won't have to implement RCS
The international people saying this is just a US problem are completely blind to the underlying issue. And that's the lack of interoperability between messaging platforms. And that's just the way they want it as it effectively creates them a messaging monopoly. Because for the system to work everyone has to use their platform. Line, Whatsapp and iMessage have essentially created a monopoly in their respective markets.
And Discord.
@@Samson1 forgot about them
Plus, iPhones are slowly gaining popularity in the developing world too. Even in South Korea, a primarily Samsung place. Eventually, this issue will crop up there as generation go
but apple didn't create a monopoly in the US. there's a reason why apple is called a walled garden
Well, you are not supose to use default "messaging" apps to communicate with people like we do nowadays. This is like making a big fuss about lack of interoperability between Betamax and VHS while the rest of the world is on BluRay at this point. It's like complaining about imperial system measurement while the rest of us are on metric system. You'all are making a big deal of something so easily fixable just by stop using default messaging apps and use third party apps that don't have this kind of issues! Reminds me when NASA had to spent thousands of dollars to make a pen that could work in space because lack of gravity while the Soviets just used a bloody pencil!
Thanks for sharing. I have never cared for how Apple handles messaging. Blessings on your day!
If only there was a pre-existing, extensible protocol which supports end-to-end encryption at massive scale and had been around for years so has stability at its core...
Well done as usual
I had an iPhone before iMessage was rolled out.. EVERY text was green back then, no matter the phone, nobody cared until then
Also, be careful if services allow you to use a 2FA app but allow you to use SMS as a backup. Security is only as strong as its weakest link, so having that option still makes you vulnerable to those attacks!
TL;DR explicitly turn off SMS based 2FA if you use an app and if you can't, don't use the service!
And if you have the option, delete your phone number from the service entirely.
@@ShannonMorse exactly!
@@Blizzard4242Wait delete your phone number? Don't most of these services ask you to put phone number to begin with? Aren't you already screwed once you give it to them as sign up but erase it later? For example as sign up Tik Tok got my number but I erased it after sign up
Am i supposed to believe that google or apple provide end to end encryption without keeping a copy of the encryption key?
I don't believe it either. I am 100% positive Apple/Google have been served NSL's (National Security Letters) which FORCES their compliance and forces them to keep their mouths shut. I am not as sure about Signal, but it's very possible they can be served NSL's as well.
That's the gamble you're always taking. When the locksmith installs new locks on your doors, is he keeping a copy of the key?
Nice video Shannon 👍
And like that, you have my subscription! Great content! 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
Is my first time paying attention to this sms security stuff, thanks! Nice content 😊
Happy to help!
Great thoughts 🫡
Thank you!
Would love to know what you think of the OnePlus 11!
I keep wanting to read RCS as Reaction Control System. I suppose that RCS could be used to right a message in the sky using rocket exhaust.
My question about Google Messages: who is maintaining the keys? Is it Google? Also, if there Apple did support encrypted RCS, who would be maintaining the keys for both ends? Or am I missing something?
The encryption is at the "end"s. That's the definition of E2EE. WhatsApp doesn't (supposedly) read the messages it's just the delivery agent. The "key" is the app that the phone number is registered with.
Reminds me of 2008/2009 when I was on Verizon Wireless and my phone didn't say 3G on it. Some Apple user was convinced that I was somehow inferior, when in fact CDMA was at the time 3.5G.
Even though they created iMessage;vApple doesn't, or shouldn't have the "keys" to iMessage encryption.
@@avkay12 Somebody needs to manage the public keys. Who has the directory of public keys? Unless I am missing something in the RCS spec, where the initial connection is trusted and the public key(s) sent are assumed to be the one sending them and not a third party.
@@sfuoncall Encryption and decryption keys are created by algorithms. Nobody's managing anything. I use a 2FA app. The authentication codes are updated every 30 seconds by a cloud someplace. No humans involved.
No wonder why i sent my brother a video recorded on my galaxy to his iphone and it looked on low resolution and small
I must be one of the odd ones because while I do have RCS turned on, I turn off read receipts and typing indicator.
Does that keep everything private? I just downloaded rcs and I'm quite fond of it so far.
Correction, they could communicate well with each other, but Apple has chosen not to give their users that feature. So Android = helps their users and makes better experiences. Apple = actively denying their users a better experience.
Oh also android users see the correct emoji, so again Apple actively denying their users a better experience...
Shannon said almost exactly that in the video.
Almost exactly, but not exactly. Also I am pretty sure I made this comment before watching the whole video.
So my android messages are encrypted with stock messages to another android message user?
I have a Samsung galaxy s23 and I prefer using Samsung messages and love how now Samsung messages & Google messages comes with RCS enabled on by default
Secure-by-default, not by choice! Far too often a marketing lens of "it needs to be easy" overrides basic security controls that are not even a hinderance for the average user. The messaging app you are referring to seems to be the official Google One - it may be worth talking about Samsung's "Messages" app as well given so many use it. Thanks for the great content!
Apple agreed to turn on RCS
Yes they did.
This video was posted in August, long before apple released that news.
Isn't the matrix protocol supposed to be doing the same thing? Making multiple apps just work without having to use the same one as everyone else.
Apple is anti consumer. I'm shocked.
Open standards for interoperability needs to be more of a thing than they are. The whole green vs blue bubble has never really been a thing for us (or most of the world as far as I'm aware). Maybe in the really early days, but when WhatsApp took over from BBM and it was usable by everyone regardless of platform, that just became the platform of choice and most people never looked back. I think that's the case in most of the world. Most people just install it as a matter of course when they get a new phone, regardless of platform.
Even though they probably shouldn't given its history. The example it does offer is one where if it works everywhere and easily it will get adopted which does not sound like any Apple product and likely gives some insight into their reluctance.
Too bad Facebook /meta who owns them are stalker number two after google - so not looking back is a massive mistake lol
So what can happen when texts are not encrypted over the airwaves?
Everyone and their grandmother can read them, so nothing that can be viewed as important or a potential economical gain should be discussed in that way.
@@wikingagresor how is that possible? Can your average person somehow intercept it with their own phone?
@@ramonjrusa depends on the access method, are we talking computer over ethernet cable, computer over wireless, phone over wireless or phone over telecom?
A video on Signal would be appreciated
Honestly, I mostly just use Discord. Don't think I've used a message app for anything else than authentication.
The messenger in Utopia is the best choice for those who want to communicate safely
Can you do a video on Apple supporting RCS and what does it mean for Android users like myself?
OK that sign in the back KM6F?? an Amateur radio call sign ?
I can’t say for sure if that’s her call sign but Shannon is a HAM operator.
@@sailorbrite I would like to know her full call sign . Like to see if I have ever logged her as a contact
I'm not practicing but it's KM6FPP. Note: the data on the fcc database is old and isn't my home address (it's a warehouse).
Damn Apple! 😡
Meshtastic is great!
Google message is more secure than imessage
How is it more secure?
I love how in G messages you can assign a Group Name regardless if Android or Apple contacts! So useful! In Apple, only full iMessage users have that ability. Boo
Meanwhile half of Asia still using Fb Messenger
I adore your privacy deep dives! Privacy and security are my favourite topics on TH-cam. Mahalo!
_imagine living in america_ and texting and not using whatsapp for everything
Yes, this is actually our reality.
It's interesting the amount of people in the comments that say that they don't care about the bubbles, either because they just don't care or they use another platform. I am noticing how that thinking leads to the worsening of the current circumstances where people are fighting over green or blue. The people who care less about the bubbles should be more outspoken about other messaging platforms so that others could be persuaded. Good persuasion also helps direct the consumer who is unaware or ignorant to other solutions.
This!!! You hit the nail on the head. Thank you for the thoughtful comment!
@@ShannonMorse Thank you for affirming these thoughts! I've been thinking through something like this for a while now in regards to tech in general.
google message and phone dialer is safe on stock android
Very nice to see you're one of the few female Android users that doesn't judge what others use to communicate. As you're probably aware, there are untold amounts of videos out there that show that most girls today will not give a bro the time of day if they see a green text bubble pop up in their chat app. I pray that Apple will adopt RCS, or make their own version of it that will connect instead of divide smartphone users.
FYI, You're missing the "O" in Morse in your Morse Code screen bug.
No it's not. M O is -- ---. The space is hidden by the top of the alpha M.
I use an I phone and all the bubbles are green I have never seen a blue one I text with both I phone and android users.
Do you have iMessages turned on in settings?
@@avkay12 I just looked and yes imessage is on and highlighted green in settings.
I don’t care about the bubble colour. They can use whatever phone they want. However, I wont use anything else than iMessage for texting. Most of my extended family uses FB Messenger and I hate it. I wish Apple supports this standard for encryption purposes though
I could care less about the color of a bubble. I hope Android and Apple can come to some sort of protocol agreement. That said, Apple has been secure with messaging for years. Glad Google is there now as well. We all benefit
Only when it's cross platform do we all benefit
There is no such thing as secure messaging. Don't be naive.
@@JohnSmith-ys4nl agreed
Apple will now support RCS in 2024 according to apple
I prefer iPhones strictly for the app optimization and, more often, better app features than their android counterpart.
For literally everything else I prefer android.
But what if I just send pictures of potatoes 🤔😂
🤣🤣🤣 this is permitted
Is RCS available for group android messages? Three android phones..
Yes with Google Messages
@@markcossman200 thanks
@@marcialp93it only works if everyone in the group msg has RCS. If an iPhone in the group or an Android user without RCS it defaults back to SMS/MMS
I love using Signal. Not for anything other than chatting with my wife when I don't care for nosey people. 🙂🙂
🟢pride!!
Currently really annoying to send full resolution pictures and video over RCS. Google currently makes you jump through some hoops to do it.
Have to hit +, hit Files, and manually choose the picture or video from your file system to send in full resolution with RCS. Just picking it from the gallery compresses it. In the case of photos, they go from 12 MP to 3 MP. Very annoying.
So Apple is the US of the phone world. Does what they want (meters vs in,ft,miles)
Apple watch users lockdown to Apple forever 💯
if RCS is the industry standard doesnt that kinda make iMessage a "third party app?"
Not quite yet. The phone makers and service providers have to be on board.
A high % use WhatsApp here in the uk. Thanks for the video.
Yup I mentioned in the video near the end about how Whatsapp is popular overseas.
Here in Italy there is no problems with messaging cus we all use WhatsApp
Apple fault for this message thing. Android to Android, everything is fine. My daughter can send a whole video from a Galaxy s10, and I have an s23 ultra and videos, and pics come out. It's perfect. No issues at all.
I've used both and can say it's that the green is just an off-putting color. As lame as that sounds. Apple knows this too which is why they make iMessage a nice blue
Yup, I didn't mention this in the video because the video is about privacy, but I have seen that too on my old iPhones.
Except Google Web does not work worth ****. The notifications do not work on my Pixel. Google help .. they are clueless. They said .. "replace your phone". I have to use Link for Windows. Get your act together Google. But yes ... Apple is the problem for the most part. The other thing .. cannot send a message via RCS from my Pixel phone to my Windows PC.
Thankfully, 99% of the people I know all have iPhones. I can count on one hand Android users. Don’t care about colors, but good to know about privacy.
And this is yet another reason me and Apple got beef lol. Google plays nice with everyone EVEN APPLE. But Apple is the one being stubborn. I understand you want to give people incentives to get a damn iPhone but this is just ridiculous. It wouldn’t hurt Apple AT ALL to play nicely with everyone else in the smartphone world. Like, it would actually make things easier for a lot of people!
How important or not important you think metadata is? Even with E2EE metadata can reveal a lot of info about you.
its why so many people choose What's app as an iPhone user and with family and friends with android often we all use what's app
Outside America yea but here in America iMessage is King 😁😁
Now Google just needs to police their play store and search engine.
I'm here to judge you honey maybe you're not that cool girl to use iMessage no hard feelings 😀
in usa 9 out of 10 are iphone users so better get iphone its that simple not that iphone is better or android is better thats just personal preference
You really don't send green 🍏 bubbles. The green bubble is the one they send. Not you. .the green is on the right .
*laughs in non-American. 🤣
Like, why don't you just use 3rd party messaging apps?
If everyone could get on board with one popular app then we'd be talking! It's so annoying to deal with this here in the US. This is also why I made mention in the video about this being an American issue.
Doesn't everyone just use WhatsApp anyway?? I guess not...
Everyone else except north america.
They are stuck in the past.
But give them some time,
In the meantime,
they have more burning issues,
they're still using the imperial system 😂
Signal. Never rely on Zuck for privacy.
We're not stuck in the past, we're on a different evolutionary tract
Hahaha yeah use something owned by Facebook for privacy, right
Besides the EU's regulation, I think the only way to make Apple adopt RCS is for carriers to retire SMS/MMS.
Similar to how the 2G and 3G networks shutdown forced dumb phones to adopt VoLTE and VoNR, in order to make phone calls.
Everybody use WhatsApp 😏
fortunately not "everybody"...
@@rootygroot you don't use WhatsApp?
in simple terms. iphone users: your data is there data. Android users : your data can be your data if used properly. First step in true privacy NEVER own a mac, apple, iphone device. Second step de-google android device.
I don't care which one you use
MLS gives me some slight hope that Beeper may at some point gain encrypted text chat for my friends using Google Messages. I primarily use Signal but disconnected from Beeper, and then Beeper is my "insecure" messages. Discord, Telegram, and iMessage.
They recently announced that they now do. But its basically a front for Google's Messages for Web site that already exists. Its just piped into Beeper
Nice freeze-frame on the first image there 😂
😅
I don't care which one you use