Evergrande's $78 Billion Fraud
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- The Chinese real estate giant Evergrande was recently ordered by a court to liquidate all of its assets. The company has also been accused of fraudulently inflating its revenue by $70 billion.
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0:00 - 1:15 Intro
1:16 - 3:36 Evergrande Background
3:37 - 8:17 Fraud Allegations
8:18 - 12:25 Liquidation
12:26 Conclusion - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
![พาแม่บินครั้งแรก..เกือบวูบ! ให้เกาหลีเยียวยาใจ I Korea Ep.1 [Seoul] x อุงเอิง](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/waL3__dEQBU/mqdefault.jpg)
he was put under arrest for illegal crimes, as opposed to legal crimes. :D
“Legal Crimes” are just the Chinese Government.
“Legal crime” is when the Chinese Government does it.
Rich and well connected people tend to do many legal crimes.
It was extreme overleverage real estate investing, Unlike President Trump, who can still running business and presidency of united states, which is very unfair
Well, corruption is legal until it doesn't work anymore
Evergrande's executives: Man, those Enron guys were onto something. We just need to think BIGGER.
Smartest Guys in the Room. 😉
Yeah. Except they picked a country where you get ex3cuted for fraud
Lol legendary comment!
Enron pales compared to Evergrande, the US Savings and Loan, and the 2008 mortgage collapse. US housing bubble will burst again. Nothing can sustain such a bubble rate.
Invest wisely. go for safe companies and spread your investments. I would stay away from commie companies. At least, in the US, criminals are more likely to get prosecuted. Commies will sweep problem under the rug and leave you to fend for yourself.
How could you cook your books so badly that even pwc refuses to work with you.
you use gutter oil
@@robertkeyes258 lmfao
I LOL'd
hahaha
If you want to do a large fraud, use a large accounting firm
Considering prepayment as revenue is so sacrilegious it's like depreciating land. I wonder how much PWC let's slide before they were like all right I'm out.
I think these days Big 4 stamp of approval just doesn't mean anything anymore and it's not a China issue neither. Look at how far EY Germany let Wirecard go. Nowadays, if Big 4 say you're good, it doesn't mean anything good or bad. If Big 4 is like: ay, we're out, that's when it means something is up...
PWC will let anything slide as long as the payment clears. I suspect Evergrande started to fail PWC payments and that is why PWC quit the auditing racket. PWC is over the last decades been involved in so many shoddy company audits that its not just unlucky at this point.
@jasonq4816 got it.
$70b
‘Stage payments upon stage delivery’ are quite common in construction. Of course if nothing has actually been delivered apart from the vision that’s a bit different…
1:38 “The company operated in various tiers of cities in China,” *shows clip of Chinatown NYC*
Stock images.
Better than a blank screen.
More for storytelling and imagination.
Eh, it's China adjacent
Fun thing, there is a Taiwanese flag in the clip.
@@antman7673but if the pictures are striking wrong, people are distracted and don't focus on the story.
So for proper storytelling a blank screen would be better.
Same thing 😂
Like CPC or not. I think they took the right step in not bailing out the company. Companies that fail, should be allowed to fail. Taxpayers money should not be used to save investors.
Ccp
No stock market manipulation either. If the market falls, it falls. The CPC couldn't care less.
@@dirremoire THE CCP NOT CPC YOU FUCKWIT DONT FALL TO THEIR PROPAGANDA
@@jxxxxx44 CPC, CCP is an American propaganda.
they fumbled the ball big time, comparing this to how us handled svb, the ccp looks like amateurs, anyone with a brain would know it's bankrupt the moment they see the book, the government shoulda freeze the asset, liqudate and sell off the asset immediately to stop further loss, instead they allowed asset to be stolen off for 1 yr while dragging down the whole economy, such retard move can only be done by the ccp
Honestly good on them for having the balls to tell a large corporation to bend over. 2008 taught American banks that they have total immunity as long as they're big enough. At least in China the other property developers are going to see this and scramble to make sure their pocketbook is in order
I mean sure, but what about the millions of people that lost their life savings?
@@luipaardprint millions of people DID loose their life savings. The retirement strategy of a significant portion of the population is sell your house -> use money for retirement. Rewarding the banks that lied to investors about their bonds being stable creates an incentive for future recklessness. If you're going to give any money for the banks then the government should literally own them. If the banks want to be private again they can buy back their stock - from the government - paying back the bailout. If the banks doing this crap go under they deserve it.
This was actual fraud tho. Ib America it was because of greed on one end and a lack of financial understanding and luck on the other. People shouldn't have taken loans but were allowed to.
@@luipaardprint It was incredibly unstable business structure in the first place, it was bound to collapse. The government regulations just sped up the process. Atleast the people responsible are actually being punished for their crimes
@@kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk0123 well loads of people up and down the US subprime food chain de facto know that it was putting random price tags on properties in the middle of nowhere and underwrite securities at the made up face value. It's slightly more subtle but still very scammy.
since most of these apartments were bough for speculation, not to live in, even if finished they will be worth nothing.
Yeah, its kinda hard to feel bad for them when these people wanted to buy future housing just to be landlords/investments. Greed.
@Devilishlybenevolent what a low IQ take. If you have any retirement investments of any kind you're doing the same thing. So is everyone else. Imagine trying to virtue signal against individual civilians for trying to legally invest their money. Talk about a loser.
This is part of the massive slowdown in property sales when the CCP brought out rules that property sold to be lived in and not just speculated after years of allowing property sales for speculation purpose only. This sudden change put a nail in the coffin of generating future sales profits to be spend now.
@@Devilishlybenevolenteven worse is that they were not allowed to buy productive assets so bought these houses.
@@Paetaordefine " productive assets"
Pretty bold and stupid to do this in a country that uses the death penalty for white collar crime.
for some people short-term luxury is worth their life, its sad
Pretty much all rich people and high level politicians in China are involved in corruption. It's only enforced when you become a problem for the party
I don't agree with China on much but...
You can get the death penalty just for being pulled over in the US, even if you're unarmed.
As@@o_o8203
Please talk about those homes completed and delivered after the developers filed for bankruptcy. Chinese owners are claiming the workmanship and materials are sub standard and some are dangerous they claim on Chinese social media.
I hope the CEO gets the wall, China is one of the few countries handing out proper punishments for white collar crimes.
Make all the higher-ups walk toe Great Wall barefoot.
Yes. Its great when the state unalives people we dont like, right?
@@zxt5148 not people we don't like, people who objectively lack empathy
As if Hui Ka Yan wasn’t working for the ccp lol
He was or maybe still a Party Committee Secretary for the ccp lol.
Kinda the expected result for Evergrande.
People investing in Evergrande, expecting government intervention were not considering, that their money made not bailing out investors even more attractive.
Right. They only bail out billionaire's money. They won't bail out normal people.
Huh?
5:30 Yes prepayments cannot be considered revenue but it is not correct to say "based on standard accounting principles this should not count as revenue until the final product has been delivered." The construction industry often applies percentage of completion method since builds are long-term projects. They are allowed to record revenue on a project based on an estimated completion percentage, given certain criteria. This is true despite the final product not being delivered.
The main issue seems to me that the chinese economy basically was or is still based on real estate and most of that speculative in nature. Evergrande is just a symptom of that.
Every capitalist economy is like this
Yup. Homes are places to live, not "investments" to be flipped.
Wrong. Housing is a part of it. But import/export and manufacturing are the main causes of china's growth and expansion
@@xyzmediaandentertainment8313in terms of gdp real estate accounts for 30%
@@xyzmediaandentertainment8313 Not really. It's not a secret that investment in infrastructure and housing was a huge part of chinas growth and also the reason they are struggling at the moment, since that model is no longer sustainable. As I said, Evergrande is just a symptom of a bigger problem.
The main problem is outrageous malinvestment in property. They should have pulled the plug almost a decade ago. In all but a few of the top tier cities there are literally millions of empty apartments. There are probably more apartments than people now, and if you add all the empty village houses left outside the cities then the situation becomes truly comical. And they are still building like there's no tomorrow!!! Cities (let alone towns) where the population is decreasing, that probably have as many apartments as individual people, are still building... My in-laws live in one of the fancy developments in a third tier city that was built ten years ago and is still only about a third full. From their 25th floor window you can easily see all the empty apartments. And visible outside the development area? About 10 new 30+ floor buildings going up!!! It's pure insanity!
This would never happen in America! The government would bail out. The company would get a bailout, nobody would be prosecuted and small-time investors would lose everything.
We should charge you with securities fraud just for saying that
@@samsonsoturian6013how so?
Whatever some may think of China’s system of governance, they’re filled with competent leadership especially at the top with Xi trying to cut corruption from society. It’s good they let the company fail while still ensuring homeowners get their homes finished to ensure the stability of society.
America focuses on “democracy” (which is an illusion) whereas China focuses on competency and social good.
TARP recovered $441.7 billion from $426.4 billion invested, earning a $15.3 billion profit. So the tax payer did not ultimately. Of course the goal was not to make a profit but to stabilize the economy. Of course small investors lost a bundle but that is how capitalism works.
If you believe that, I got a bridge I’m trying to sell, cheap.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
If someone in your nation has super yacht money and you are still a "developing" nation.... something is wrong
That is pretty normal. Even the West in its developing phase had far higher income inequality than now.
South Korea only declared themselves as a developed country in 2019.
or the leader of the country in luxury watches while the country is starving.
The CEO of Evergrande stole money from home owners to pay for his planes, yachts, soccer team, etc. Death Penalty
0:38 “Mostly dead but still just a little bit alive”
Reference status: Known
The China housing model encourages speculation with finished apartments lacking floor coverings, paint, bathroom fixtures and kitchens so they can’t be rented and just sit there empty hoping for a capital gain profit. This is madness. The government could put a big tax on unoccupied property encouraging investors to rent their properties and address the housing crisis at the same time
Not sure it was a good idea to fine Evergrande. How are they gonna pay the fine when they can't even pay back depositors?
I am no lawyer but I assume the legal process proceeding the fine will allow them to pursue executives of Evergrande as well as Evergrande as an entity.
The govt gave them money to try to lessen the financial impact. The fine is to make sure they get paid back first before investors.
The purpose of fines in China is to supplement tax revenue. Bankrupt cities will systematically impound all the scooters on the streets for made up reasons just to hold them for ransom. One city was even caught moving cars with a tow just to give them tickets
I believe the fine was given before there was decision to liquidate. This was likely given to make sure that they were not recovering even if not liquidated.
China has spent the last 4 years crushing big companies and setting them in their place. The decision to crush this one was handed to them on a platter, and a fine was just a way to make sure it went down easier.
Its a complex issue. I espouse no expertise in what is laughable called Chinese Judiciary but presumable a government fine would make it more complicated for Evergrande to discharge unsecured debts during bankruptcy proceedings. The longer the government can keep Evergrande from legally dissolving the more depositors can wring their money back out of the company via civil suits against complicit executives and stakeholders.
How do you cover this without mentioning corruption? The delayed bankruptcy allowed the Party insiders to be made whole and get out, leaving the entrepreneur holding the bag.
FYI, China has a zero tolerance policy for corruption. Especially for party members.
The whole thing was about corruption- what do you think fraud is?
@@David-tt1rb Fraud on Evergreen's part,...corrption on the CCP's part. All defrauding the citizens of China & investors.
Bro, love your content. Only way I can get through work haha. Always have a video of yours in the background while I’m coding.
Unsustainable growth Unsustainable
“illegal crimes” 😂
You'll get more punishment if the crime you committed is illegal
Chatgpt script
@@tomlxyzalot of words to say "insider trading for congress"
@@kyo250996 Insider trading for congress is actually not a crime
I mean it wasn't illegal until the 3 red lines law was passed. Unethical and risky in the extreme but if the Government doesn't make it illegal someone is going to do it. Later Auditors found other things that were illegal even before the 3 red lines was passed and is when it went from "New Regulations killed them" to "It was Fraud all along"
Finally someone is calling it as it is, FRAUD!
That's how it should be, if bankers mess up don't bail them out no matter how big they are
Over time WSM has turned into one of my favorite channels. Really enjoy the format and the pacing. Good work and keep it up.
This could have mostly avoided if the CCP had better pre sale regulations.
Who was the moron who thought it was a good idea to require buyers to pay in full before construction was complete?
Chinese had not many options to invest cash, most stable was real estate, so they pumped it so hard that gone bubble.
How, China has stock market too
@@hulahula6182 Good luck investing in there 🙂
You can indeed claim revenue for ongoing projects, however the contracts need to include specific clauses. And if they do, the calculation is based on the cost occured within the project and is not linked to payments.
Gone where? The land the building still there, unlike the great robbery of FTX, SVB and Credit Suisse!!
Your conclusion that greed is the culprit is spot-on. If he had played it conservatively and not leveraged to the max, he would not be in trouble when the CCP introduced the Three Red Lines. And he wouldn't have to subsequently cook the books to save his ass.
How much did the Chinese government make after all this
It's really staggering to think about how much of an impact this is going to have, not just on the financial level but also environmental with the huge amounts of unfinished construction that's just going to be left to collapse and crumble away over the next couple decades. China is going to be literally falling apart at the seams because of Evergrande.
Always great content.
In America, the share holders, bond holders and investors would have been bailed out by a cash injection into EG, in china, the guy on the street gets bailed out
Now that's true capitalism, failed companies should be let to fail and be replaced by better companies
Incorrectly recognizing revenue is a dangerous mistake. Just look how easily this skewed their financial statements..
I wonder who is holding a large portion of Evergrande paper?
At least he's jailed compare to those bankers in 2008 just walk away with bonuses lol
Losing money on pyramid schemes was your own damn fraud
Governments should not bail companies let them fall.
according to Evergrande's 2022 Annual Report, their largest liabilities are:
1. Payable to suppliers $1T yuan - these guys might not be paid in full. it appears only about $600B are actually invoices. $400B is unknown liabilities.
2. Obligation to homebuyers $721B yuan - homebuyers will be made whole by the gov't, as video said.
3. Loans $600B yuan - they probably won't be repaid at all
their assets mostly consists of:
1. Properties under development $1.26T - most of this will be given to homebuyers when they are complete.
2. Buildings and equipment $350B
3. Receivables $205B
if suppliers have lien protection - like in North America - then they will probably get like 80 cents on the dollar, maybe close to whole.
lenders will get nothing, as video suggests.
It's not the greed that's the problem. It's the fraud that's committed (admittedly by greedy people) that's the problem.
No mention of the flawed population numbers that Evergrande used to justify the amount of buildings. Imagine overestimating your population by 100 million 🤦🏻♂️
Big bucks seems to hypnotize even top executives in monitoring agencies. WHY no deeper dive into Evergrande, Enron, Theranos and countless others? When will they learn?
They played their people like a timeshare
One thing we can sort of be thankful for was that the govt saw the potential problem and took some steps to nip it in the bud earlier. Not perfect but I remember the subprime mortgage crisis. There were some high ranking fed officials voicing concerns but Alan Greenspan said nah, everything is fine.
Yes... famously honesty Chinese Government is SAYING that they are going to make the little people whole... right...
They are not finishing partially built properties, they promised but not happening (no money left)
I would never buy off the plan for obvious reasons. 'Let the buyer beware'.
nice that fleeced 'home buyers' are first on the list of creditors to be paid .
here in the 'west' the banks get paid well before normal folks who had their life savings stolen, i believe.
I am glad to hear that the govt' has stepped in to finish many of the unfinished construction projects.
China needs a system change in its rules in presale construction. If I remember correctly, purchasers/investors need to start paying mortgage payments "WHILE" the building is being constructed. This is vastly different than presales in North America where purchasers only pay 10-20% down payment until the project is complete. So the burden is on the developers to finish the project so they can collect the other 80% sales.
The government was not "too slow to catch on", the housing bubble is common knowledge, and the government has made several attempts before the 3 red lines. The reason the chinese government never stopped the bubble sooner is because (1) land sale to these developers was a huge part of the government revenue. (2) everyone in the government was getting bribes from the developers to sell them the land. So all the previous attempts weren all half hearted short pauses in the rising housing prices and the bubble just grew bigger and bigger. I remember my dad sold his shanghai flat back in 2007 when the US housing bubble burst. He said the there is no way his investment grew from $300k to over $1 million in 4 years, in a market where the average apartment cost 70 years of average income, wasn't a bubble. But yet, it kept growing for another 13 years.
who are the "bond holders"?
Agree many locals got scammed. But a lot of western capitalists got punished for their insatiable and obscene greed.
Kaisa is next...there are talks of another big developer hitting the wind-up window
This can he an existential threat to prc if ordinary home buyers don't get made whole.
Ooh, the SPAC biz should find Evergrande interesting 😂😂
The moment they started selling homes to finance building homes they had previously sold it was already a degree too late. You just can't spin cash rhat fast without derailing.
Technically prepayment for a unit are taxable and declarable upon reception if a company is reporting on cash basis and not accrual basis.
Your description is a bit misleading. However they aren't recorded as sales but as a liability until the unit is delivered.
Evergrande took money for projects they hadnt even started. They kept falling further and further behind until they ran out of cash to handle their loans, nevermind actually building the projects they had been paid for.
You did not differentiate between the liquidation in Hong Kong vs mainland china. I think it makes a big difference to say, they are liquidating within thing Kong, or liquidating everywhere
Dealing with Chinese suppliers it's always payment up front and good luck with claims over quality, failures, etc.
Here the home buyers took that risk and lost all.
7:53 Man.. paying many many times my yearly salary to live up in one of those shit boxes? I think being a poor tea farmer out in the countryside sounds like the better choice.
Thank you
$78 billion? That'll buff out.
It is a pervasive fact that nothing lucrative can be avoided. Just ask Gerald in Accounting and he'll explain everything.
"Leveraged off future customers" - thats about 99% of the property developers worldwide...
Only the ones committing account fraud. Civilized countries force builders to put the money in escrow
When something seems too good to be true…
It started as kind of a Kickstarter project
Legal crimes are what you do for the powerful.
Won't that affect other parts of the world economy?
1:13 Please tell me that photo has been meme'd to infinity and beyond in China
How do you call prepaid construction in Chinese: Ponzi scheme
3:52 "illegal crime" 🤨🤯🥴... so there is a "legal" version of that???
"unique form of leverage" it's a pyramid scheme lol
Hey they say if you’re going to steal go big he definitely went big Lolo
has this impacted on the China GDP figures?
"illegal crimes"
😂😂😂
if you broke enough, you can run as US President candidate of upcoming presidency term and severed as US President
Not all illegal activities are crimes but all crimes are illegal. It's said for emphasis. Not sure what the gotcha moment is supposed to be here. In fact I'd wager that you and most other commentors didn't even know what I just said was true.
@@raymondyu7933he was committing the crimes while he was a Senator and as Vice President so it doesn’t count.
It’s not gone….it was taken by someone.
they can just give it right back then
It was a ponzi scheme. They were using deposits from new buyers to give houses to old buyers
Was it fraud or high interest rates and a global slow down? Just asking.. how about a shrinking usd supply??
This guy was buying everything everywhere he burned through cash like crazy
Only US$78 Billion?
That's huge in a country where you can rent a studio apartment for 20 bucks a month.
Prop for the government for not balling them out, I wish the US government does the same so these companies stop gambling people money
why did you throw in manhattan chinatown 1:40?
Most of the unfinished projects are taken over by the government and will finish eventually. Interestingly, the worst thing buyer can do is to ask for a refund.
If you don’t ask for refund it’s very likely you get your property some months or years later, but if you ask for refund you get a IOU from evergrand which probably worth pennies 😂
It may be decades before all the projects completed. For some people they wont see either their home or a refund. Given the quality of homes in china theres no guarantee the home will be liveable. In which case its worse than worthless.
Not the kind of chart you want to see, ever.
How does this affect Canadian Real estate and American Banks who gave them Loans?
Wait....isn't that just mark to market accounting that has been normal in big business since Enron?
Only if you're a fraud
@@samsonsoturian6013 exactly. Now see how many companies still do mark-to-market accounting
Wow we haven't heard anything about these guys for a while...
Good to see no "investment" sponsorships that are just gambling.
What about the Chinese Ghost Cities?
Found this channel a couple days ago and been binging videos of it since.
It's mostly factual but mainly for entertainment purposes. Very well written and edited but I wouldn't quote from it unless you want egg on your face.
Phillip.
Chinese government has to take some of this blame.
To increase GDP they incentivized builders to build more homes.
More than some.
The Chinese government is officially infallible, so it mainly exists to take credit for others' success and to blame others for its own failures.
But hey WSM, isn't it the norm in China to pay up front front for properties (estate) and then the builder delivers over lets say a year or two? ALOT of those builders defaulted.
This was infact one of then dominoes that has effectively led to collapse of China's economy.
The current issues with China's property developers is because of poor Government Regulations. In Australia, all purchaser's deposits are held in the purchaser's lawyer's Trust Account and only realised to the developer when the developer receives a Government Occupation Certificate to show the apartment is properly completed and suitable for occupation.
Evergrande and all other PRC developers have simply just taken advantage of poor quality Chinese Government legislation.
The CCP needs to change the Pre Sale/Off the Plan regulations to protect the purchasers and not allow developers to basically "steal" deposits and use them for completely unrelated purpose, like buy a big Gulfstream or a 300 foot long private boat!
I'm sure most of CEOs pocketed some money for themselves at some point. It just a matter of time before karma start catching up with their crime.
Evergrand debt probably over 200 billions, next is Country Garden, Kaisa, Vanke.... more to come...
hopefully investors are taught to be more careful by taking this large loss... wait a sec, what am I saying, they will never learn.
$78 bil gone? No no no, its not gone its just in his family's hidden bank account.