Would you want any of these phase change products for your home? To get an EcoFlow Delta Max, Delta Pro or some of their great accessories, go to the EcoFlow website: us.ecoflow.com/?aff=195 or to Amazon: amzn.to/3vSDqhZ. If you liked this video, check out How the CO2 battery could be the future of energy storage? th-cam.com/video/GSzh8D8Of0k/w-d-xo.html
Ecoflow offered to pay me $100 to remove my negative review, they have been caught removing and adding the same product on Amazon to reset reviews. I know bills need to be paid but disappointing to see you supporting this shady company.
There is also a company who makes a ice battery that builds off solar panels during day, and defrost overnight when it’s used as A/C to cool your home when solar doesn’t produce, I was looking for options to use extra solar power produced during summer in desert, vs pumping back into the grid, about 6 years ago, there are some smart products out there!
30 years ago I worked for a company that was trying to get into this market. Their use case was for long haul trucks. The idea was that many truckers ran their trucks at night to keep the sleeper warm in the winter. They planned to use the excess heat will driving to store heat for night so the engine could be shut off. I left the company and lost track of the project, but I think it is safe to assume it went nowhere.
for moving vehicles, the weight could be the real issue. You need a lot of stuff to store some meaningful amount of energy. Interestingly, water has a high specific heat and also high latent heat of melting and boiling.
@@janami-dharmam Steam cars/trucks/boats/subs/most large industrial "engines"in the world use steam and have a TON of power. For exactly those reasons Uses to build hobby steam engines, its scary if there's a leak or God forbid a boiler burst.
Sunamp trialled a system on London buses which typically sit running for a while in a morning to warm up. The Sunamp unit stored heat during the previous day's use then released it early morning the next day to warm up the engine, reducing emissions significantly.
That's interesting! Seems like something like that could help avoid the need for plugging in diesel engine block heaters overnight in freezing conditions too.
I've been using a PCM "chill vest" for years. It has large packs of a gell that solidifies at 57 F, so I store it in the freezer and wear it when I'm doing yardwork on a hot day. It's not exactly a 'still suit' from Dune, but it definitely makes me more comfortable and productive.
I have seen them being used as ice-packs to transport chemicals that must be stored cool. They are sealed and that is the only advantage (no mess). They can be used over and over again. But I do not know what is there in the gel.
They are convenient.. I have one, but I wouldn’t buy it again. It was nice to start learning about this stuff, but If I could do it over again, I would just get raw batteries, a solar charge controller and an inverter. The efficiency of the delta’s is atrocious, like low 80%’s. I dont regret it though, I learned A LOT using the ecoflows.
It does show a lot of potential. Since you can add extra batteries and increase the capacity to 6kWh. It will definitely come in handy during blackouts.
To an extent. One of the biggest advantage of a heat pump cylinder, is that they've got a COP of at least 3 which is pretty decent Meanwhile, batteries don't have that same COP. I was looking into getting a heat pump cylinder without having a heat pump outside the house, and it's not possible (I thought I could perhaps gradually move up) I've known about sunamp for a fair amount of if time. I'm also in the UK, so I've followed UK solar news somewhat. The absolutely biggest drawbacks of sunamp does appear to be the lack of a COP (Other than the price ofc) A sunamp battery is obviously better for smaller homes where they can't even have a cylinder
When used as "insulation" PCM simply increases the thermal mass in a much denser way than traditional insulation, but only right around the phase temperature. For homes that seems like it would be only advantageous in certain areas that fluctuate past that phase temperature, or fluctuate past the holding temperature, for a large portion of the year. In more extreme areas, like the northern US, a significant portion of the year is just cold and the PCM wouldn't help much. I see an application like Sunamp's thermal batteries as a much better use case as the energy fluctuations are in a much narrower band, allowing for more optimization.
The other case where it might make sense is in areas with time of use billing. TechnologyConnections mentioned that's how he deals with his home in summer. Crank the AC at night, then let the house warm up during the day. Of course, for such a simple application a dedicated chiller and ice would also work.
@@arthurmoore9488 The problem with the ice approche is efficiency. The greater the temperature delta the lower the COP for a refrigerant cycle is. You can get COPs of 6 during times of the day cooling isn't normally required like late at night. So long as your only cooling down to like 68 or something. This means that not only are you getting better time of use for the power but also its being used more efficiently. Ice requires going down to 32/0 vs outside air which even at night is often 60-80 degrees during the summer. So the COP may be as low as 1-2 to generate the ice vs the 4-6 of lowering a thermal mass at near the houses optimal temp. *Coefficient of performance, the thermal energy moved/generated in watts vs the electrical/fuel energy consumed in watts. 4 is 400% 2 is 200% ect.
Even in cold climates (not extreme North, but still cold), you need to think beyond ambient temps. The sun-facing sides of buildings can absorb a significant amount of solar radiation during the day and could release it during the night. Use would be limited to specific locations, but still viable.
@@Mike80528 exactly. I have a house in Wyoming. As we know, the winters in Wyoming can be brutal. The south wall of my house has a sliding gass door. During the day, quite a bit of solar energy comes through that door. The floor re-radiates quite a bit of that into the house as heat. The floor is just vinyl on strandboard decking, so no real thermal mass. These phase changing materials, sandwiched between the floor joist would give the advantage of large thermal mass, without the large mass.
@@nocare You my dear need to go back to school. The HIGHER the T delta the MORE efficient a heat pump is. To achieve this high COP you have to have a large enough Heat exchanger... Which nearly EVERYONE skimps on and why the efficiency of said heat pump SUCKS. This is why, if you have free water, you squirt water onto your CHEAP ass heat exchanger to achieve superior results. Likewise nearly everyone also goes ultra CHEAP on the pump as most have a SINGLE speed (Q flow) instead of variable speed. And nearly NO one has a two stage Heat Pump based on total (Q required). Obviously the working fluid has an impact, but minimal for residential/commercial real estate in the grand scheme of COP.
We've had two SunAmps in our passive house since 2017 🙂 We just use off-peak mains power to heat these overnight and are fairly light HW users. Apart from energy density, the heat losses are fantastically low compared to a conventional UVC. E.g. our CH control system went offline whilst we were on holiday -- our son took 4 days to notice that the showers were running cold! Nice and simple we've never noticed water heating / flow issues in nearly 5 years of use.
Is it a case of great heat retention, or simply when the cat's away, the mice will not wash :-). Seriously though, going to look into those Thermino systems.
@@jamestripptrapp Heat retention. The compact cuboid form factor and vacuum panel insulation make a huge difference to hear losses. My 2 SAs lose about 1kWh per day between them.
@@tscook10, the system complies with UK codes. The whole HW + CW system is potable and fed from the rising main via coarse filter + 3 bar limiter then through a water softener. (Main pressure is a consistent 3-3½ bar. ) The HW branch goes through 2 parallel but individually isolatable SunAmps (so we can tolerate one out of service, ableit at reduced max flow) that act as heat exchangers in flow terms. The HW outputs are TRV mixed down to around 48°C at the HW manifold. All appliances and white-goods are each fed on a 1-1 isolatable spur from a manifold. The H/W will typically be at a couple of bar when flowing through this can drop to maybe 1½ bar if 2 or three showers are going at once. We've 3 ensuites, one bath/shower room + utility, kitchen and G/F toilet. Never had any flow probs.
@@TerryE-UK So the hot branch is one-way through the heater and then the sunamp? My understanding is that the SunAmp doesn't incorporate a heater, correct?
I have a Sunamp Thermino heat battery running with the ASHP installed 2 months ago and it is brilliant. Works very efficiently and is economical to use for all our hot water needs in a 4 bed detached house although only occupied with 2 old wrinklies at home now.
I researched thermal storage materials during my diploma (equivalent to a master thesis). I think a small fact in the video could be misinterpreded: Most salt hydrates for thermal storage are no PCMs! They are usually used as thermochemical energy storage materials. Water vapor will be incorporated in the crystal structure of the salt, which releases a lot of energy. They have a higher theoretical energy density than PCMs (but have other issues for household usage). However both material classes have a huge potential.
So the salt hydrate systems are not bound to a specific temperature band at atmospheric pressure? That seems to be the difficult limitation of PCM in a building.
@@armadillito They have other limitations than PCM: The dehydration temperatures are relatively high for most of these systems (they vary a lot depending on the salt used). Systems with lower dehydration temperatures have lower energy densities.... However, to "discharge" those systems, you only need humid air.
@@kleinerELM I wonder whether heat pumps could leverage PCMs or salts as an artificial source/sink where ground installation is unviable and air temperatures are extreme?
I've had a SunAmp Uniq12 since 2019 - it's great. In the winter we heat it with off-peak cheap electricity - between March and October surplus PV from our solar panels is more than sufficient to provide us with hot water and heat our towel rails. Having potable, mains pressure hot water is fabulous!
On the flip side, PCM's integrated into refrigeration units on the cold side can help alleviate short cycling and reduce total energy use. Instead of kicking on the compressor because the door was opened, air is circulated across the PCM to bring the temperature back down. This leads to longer compressor on times, less frequently, which is better for longevity of the compressor.
I worked with a PCM blanket developer in San Antonio back in 2013 while in the energy-efficient home business. I would have liked to see the platform under front-loading washers and dryers be the PCM hot water tank without the water. Layer the ketchup packet-sized blankets with copper tubing in an insulated box and run the hot water plumbing through the connections.
I have a PV charged Sunamp fitted as the hot water provider for a detached 3 bedroom house in the UK and have found that it provides just about all the hot water we need in summer. Having a EV we also have a cheap night tariff so as well as charging the car we also can charge the Sunamp if it needs to be topped off if there has not been enough sun during the day.
The pillow I use has PCM in it to help maintain comfortable temperature. After 2 or 3 years of use I've never once felt that it was too hot or too cold. Material science is so cool.
The key to the efficiency of such units as the Sunamp is that they can store a huge amount of thermal energy without the temperature changing and thus they do not need massive amounts of inrulation to retain that heat.
The Sunamp also uses Vacuum Insulation Panels - which it is able to do because the "tank" is cubical, so flat surfaces to insulate. They provide excellent insulation. But as you say - having most of the energy stored not increase the storage medium's temperature is a big help. Also, unlike a sealed water tank, the whole thing is at atmospheric pressure, so there's no danger of a steam explosion. The major downside is the weight of the units, as they arrive pre-filled - unlike a water tank that is fairly light (if bulky) until you fill it with water. And they're a little more expensive than an "equivalent" water tank.
@@notapplicable4637 It's only 0/5% on certain energy saving items (per gov.uk, "Not all products or installations qualify for the lower rate"), and if you're in NI it's slightly different again. I think something like this would be probably be on the lower VAT rate, but you don't want to get caught out by thinking you'll pay 0/5% and then having a nearly 15% (or more) higher bill.
If you live somewhere that the night time temps are low and daytime temps are high, this would work simply by selectively exposing the material to indoor air or outdoor air, or even just letting sit there in the wall/attic and serve as a buffer. But if it is always too hot (summer time in about 2/3 of the US) or always too cold (about 2/3 of the US in the winter), then you can't get your product to phase change without a lot of complicated heat management. For example, you could have solar water heating panels in the North and you could pump your water (glycol) through them, let the water heat to above the PCM melting point, then circulate it into the PCM during the day, then circulate through the pcm and air handler inside the house at night. But now you added a significant level of cost and complexity and lots of failure points.
This is what we need to see from all levels of government. Support of these new materials and technologies. The immediate change of building codes to include these things and drive towards passive/net zero. NOT taxing the use of existing forms of heating and cooling systems and fuels. The more new technologies are used the cheaper and more available they become!!
Another good PCM is greenery on facades, cooling your wall with water vapour and warming by providing surface area for dew condensation and frost sublimation. Included is a insulation layer of air between the leaves and the wall, which saves even more energy. 😁
I'm glad someone pointed this out. There was a reason stone buildings like castles (the main building itself, not the outer protective walls) and even Victorian era houses were built with very thick external walls, and why even the interior seperator walls were also thick and made of stone or brick. It wasn't anything to do with protection - not even in the castle's case. It was to do with keeping those buildings warm in the winter and cool in the summer. And why such massive buildings could be kept that way with only a small handful of oversized fireplaces. The idea of castles always being cold and/or damp are false - like any king or noble is going to want to spend all that money only to end up in a freezing building. Same went for Victorian era houses. And yet we seem to have completely lost or forgotten all the lessons learned since those ages and now build our houses with walls as thin as we can get away with, out of materials that AREN'T good at thermal management (like wood and plasterboard) and wonder why they're so damned expensive to keep comfortable.
Just came back from a trip in Europe, where houses are build in bricks with a fair amount of insulation. Despite the heat during the day (summer 2022) no AC was needed and I slept fine at night. This is certainly not the case here in my US house...
Adjacent to this subject, I have a PCM component to my mattress because I'm a very hot sleeper (to the point that during the summer it was... unpleasant). Made a huge difference.
Thank you for the video. This brings back memories: I grow up in a small town in China, and our school don’t have HVAC, so we would get those PCM handwarmer and boil it when I get home to reuse
[Bonus Points]: If the phase change "modules" installed inside walls/ceilings are placed between two thin polyester wadding films (without touching them, keeping enough flow of air going through the modules from the hidden ventilation system), the acoustic insulation benefits do not compete with the thermal regulation eficiency.
Matt, I'd just like to say that I really appreciate what you and your team are doing! You're single-handedly educating a world of people and will definitely have an impact on our future. Thanks man!
BMW actually had these kind of sodium heat storage systems in some models of their cars. I had a 2000 528i that had one of these installed. Was supposed to help in the winter by allowing the car to store heat so when you turned on the cabin heater, it would get warmer faster. Was not a huge difference, but I did notice I had heat much sooner out of the vents than the same car without that system.
I was thinking about replacing my hot water tank with a tankless solution. Your video definitely helped open my eyes to other options, but there's still a lot of information I am missing. I'd love a more in-depth look at them with more solid comparisons between existing and accessible products, and the pros and cons!
I'm not sure I would buy into the hot water heater aspect, but using these materials to insulate a living space, especially here in the South, would be a good move and I would definitely jump on board with that. The fact that they wokr even when the power is out is a huge bonus. This, plus retrofitting with solar panels, are the two main things I would do with a new home here.
I had some knowledge about ice storage for commercial buildings HVAC and phase change cooling vests. So this seemed to be theoretically very doable. But this was the first that I have seen a presentation about it actually being marketed and used. Thanks for the video.
Or just build your wall out of concrete/brick and use the thermal mass of a building as a battery. I live in a house that doesn't need air conditioning as the walls are 35cm of solid brick and another 20cm of EPS insulation on the outside. When the temperature was 36°C outside the inside was at a cool 22°C. Max out air fresh system or open up windows at night and it cools the house back to 20°C.
You did it correctly - insulation on the outside, thermal mass on the inside. This same arrangement is key for PCM too. In the U.S., many people are stuck with the house built as it is, so ideas like PCM help for retrofit of a structure that cannot support new brick wall construction.
The trick with PCMs is that they have a specific temperature they don't want to cross. Just like you can bring water to 100°C (212F) and then have to add and add and add more energy for ages until it finally becomes steam and gets to 101°C, those PCMs resist being heated/cooled over their melting point. A thick brick wall doesn't do this. It has a large thermal mass, but it won't stick to the temperature you want to have. It's just slow to move at all. A PCM layer tuned to 22°C (72F) will stick to that temperature as long as it can. If the temperature drops below, it will give off heat (at 22°C) until it is completely frozen. If the temperature rises above, it will stay cool (at 22°C) until its completely melted. It's like walking up a mountain and hitting a wall with a ladder. You will need to spend plenty of energy going up the ladder but won't move a single inch forward while doing so. Your concrete wall is just a steeper mountain.
Yep I've had my hot water heated by a SunAmp PCM Thermino Heat Battery for the past 3+ years. Brilliant! There are several versions and I have one which has two heating methods and mine is optimised for Solar PV/Off-Peak-Grid recharging providing the equivalent of over 210 litres of instantly heated water from the stored energy. The alternative method of heating is by a second heat-exchanger and so there is a second pair of 22mm pipes connected to a Gas boiler or Solar Thermal or high-temperature Heat Pump (low-temperature Heat Pump version has PCM tunes to change phase at a different lower temperature). Because my unit is optimised for Solar PV recharging using an electrical heater. When charged via the electrical source 100% of the capacity is utilised, but when charged via the alternative source heat exchanger only 80% of the capacity is achieved (by design). I used to have a 1st Generation SunAmp which was optimised for charging from my gas boiler as the primary means and that could be fully charged by the heat exchanger with the electric charging as a backup only, but now I'm fitting PV there is a different use case. SunAmp Heat batteries can also be configured and installed as a buffer Heat Store with a Heat Pump allowing the heat pump to optimise its efficiency and then (Wet radiator based) central heating can pull the heat from this Store intermittently on demand thereby decoupling Heat Pump cycling from central heating varying demands allowing for smaller Heat Pumps. Another heat storage Becoming more popular in the UK is "Mixergy" using a sophisticated control system with a large water storage tank that heats the water from the top down in such a way as to create a Barrier zone between hot and cold water in the tank by use of a pump and clever nozzles. In addition to this, the control circuit can be networked across the UK allowing the system to dump excess cheap energy into the hot water tank to help balance the grid. Several thousands of these have been already installed in a large pilot scheme.
Thanks for more fascinating and potentially very useful information Matt. My family and I are Australian and a few years ago our old immersion element hot water reservoir gasped it's last. We were advised by a plumber and family acquaintance that a 'Nanny' State Government was exerting strong pressure for installation of more energy efficient 'heat pump' systems during both new builds and replacements. Although a heat pump water heater was substantially more expensive than an immersion element model we decided to be environmentally responsible and spend the extra money on a locally made heat pump. Whereas our old immersion heater had lasted for more than forty years to our great regret and expense the heat pump failed within a mere five, years and would have been absurdly expensive to repair. We called the same plumber who installed the heat pump and were advised that heat pumps had "turned out to be a bad idea due to unreliability" and that the State Government had reverted to recommending immersion element heated units subject to specifically limited maximum reservoir capacity!
I live in a ground floor apt. My windows are at road level so I don’t need ac in the summer, even at over 90f. I’m only 50% underground too! In the Colorado winters, it doesn’t take much to keep it cozy either. Matt, you should either consider going underground or partially underground. That’s the most efficient setup.
I was in China 3 months in 2007. Almost every building I saw had Solar Heaters with a tank on the roof. Super simple and worked great. One time in Yangshwo near Guilin when the power was out so no water being pumped I needed some water in the bathroom. So I thought oh hot water on the roof and yes the gravity fed hot worked while the cold needing an electric driven pump did not. Seems all houses should have that solar water heater with optional electric heater or heat reservoir in case all the hot water is used up. Surprising there aren't clothes dryers which use heat from a solar mass heated up by the sun during the day.
I can't find it now, but I remember reading about a company that was researching incorporating PCM capsules in their drywall insulation and it reduced the cost of heating in the building by 20%. I'm always shocked at how this hasn't taken off, I used to know a friend who had a wood stove in their basement and they had an old crock pot that they filled with paraffin wax bricks and when they turn on their wood stove it would melt the pot, and then they would move the pot to their work area where they were in down there and it would keep that room while also still sending the wood stove heat up into the rest of the house.
Hi Matt, could you please do a series on your home build? I suspect many of your followers would love to see what all of your insight can yield in a new home.
I can see a possible use for this product in the greenhouse industry. I would look at hanging rows of panels from under the trusses in a north/south orientation, 90 Degrees to the ground. Because they are reflective, light loss would be minimal. Greenhouse structures fit the bill of heating up rapidly during the day and loosing lots of energy at night. Even at -30C greenhouses will vent heat with full sun, but the boilers run non stop at night. As always, you've got me thinking.
I can think of two good applications for pcm, one is to freeze a large quantity (a block the size of a refrigerator) on a hot sunny day to operate a cold loop through an air/liquid heat exchange for after sundown AC. The other is to store summertime heat (in something the size of a small swimming pool) to use in the winter to heat the house.
The key to phase change material is how much energy it takes to change phase. Imagine boiling a litre of water in your kettle. It takes what, a minute? Now how long does it take to boil the litre away, phase changing it into a gas? Twenty minutes, more? We could calculate it / measure it but the point is, there's much, much more energy in the phase change than there is in just raising the temp 75 degrees or so.
7:54 It's interesting, kinda works like any structure that has good thermal mass like a basement but with a state change to absorb or release that extra heat still i don't know about the precise temperatures you would need for this to be efficient, especially in places with extreme temperature fluctuation between the season. Like something that is great in summer could be bad in winter and vice versa.
I think part of the problem, for me, an efficient user, is that we have different set points in the summer and winter. You would have to pick a material for one of those seasons and stick with it. I guess that's not a huge problem for very hot or very cold places with only one energy intensive season, but there are many places (like the midwest and southeast united states) that have significant heating and cooling seasons, and these places often use the most energy.
@@tscook10 Yeah, idk seems to me that it's better to simply have good insulation because it's just as effective in any weather since you know it keeps better whatever temp your system is pumping out
The big untapped potential in this is an ability to keep buildings comfortable while allowing the HVAC system to cycle according to energy management instructions from aggregators/ISOs. That would solve the renewable intermitentcy issue by allowing heating (and most transportation) load to be managed to match supply curves rather than having to manage supply to meet demand curves.
Standard VAT rate in UK is 20% - the rate for the Thermino may be different but our government isn't known for encouraging environmental progress (eg insulation is still 20% VAT)...
That's a cool idea. Even for passive heating and cooling. The temperature of the dwelling would be buffered at the transition temperature of the substance. That would be great for my place, which heats up and cools down each day with the sun. The cabin could stay at a comfortable temperature for longer, both as it warms and as it cools.
thank you so much for the presentation of the phase change materials, and their implementation. I've been a fan for a long time and i really appreciate your information. i work in a solar company called Apparent that has been dealing with a solar heating system and you set my eyes on a good energy storage medium. thank you for the high end data analysis.
The energy blanket could be the perfect product for a greenhouse wall. Greenhouses easily overheat during the day and often need a heat boost at night This could reduce needs for both heating and venting
The ENRG panel reminds me of why houses are built the way they are in the UK, lots of Stone or bricks. As heat rises, the stone absorbs heat, and lets it out at night and as it gets cold and start using heating (traditionally you'd have fires on all winter) the heat in the walls is maintained like a thermal battery. These days, heating is expensive, we rarely use fires and therefore our homes are not working the way they were designed, so require retrofitting. Heat is provided by fast, very hot solutions.
Thank you 🙏 again for your EXCELLENT work 🙏👏👏👏 #1,I THINK living in a 4 season state this PCM technology is not that attractive yet but I'm no engineer. #2, Can't wait to see your new home and it's modern solutions #3, your channel is still an awesome resource second to NONE 🥇🏆
Now imagining combining the Energy panels in the walls with the super-reflecting space cooling from another of your videos, plus ultra reflective paint on the outer walls.
At 6:01 - UK VAT. The general rate now is 20%. Some sustainability products are free of VAT, or at a reduced rate of 5%, but as things stand, Sunamp products attract the full 20% (to my knowledge.)
I think the idea of the Sun-Amp solar battery will be the most widely used. I'd love to combine that with a hybrid PV/Thermal array especially in conjunction with a ground sourced heat pump.
The Apollo 15 to 17 Moon Mission *_Lunar Rovers_* had Paraffin heat exchangers to regulate the Battery temperature, during and after the Lunar Rover use!
A PCM water heater would be a perfect pedestal for front loading washer/dryers. An insulated box with layers of PCM sheets and water tubing. The Dry HPWH could be part of the home's HVAC.
I bet these kind of materials would have great usage in public buildings. Here in Finland it's mostly cold and heating is needed almost all year around and that's why all buildings are insulated very well. However in office building or school for example, good insulation with alot of people inside heat up the space quickly so there's also cooling systems! (which is kind of bizarre...) These kind of materials could be a great addition to catch the heat from people during the day and release it at night. One thing didn't come apparent though and that's the danger of condensation when absorbing heat. Maybe I need to take a closer look of these...
Hmmm. Get a pair of materials with high and low transition temps, then actively mix between the reservoirs, as needed. Maybe 50 C and 0 C. Trading off computational function against control of large energy sources. You use a smaller reservoir, and get more flexibility.
Love the video as always Matt. Not to be impatient or rush, but is there any ROUGH timeline for the house build videos? I know these things take time, but am VERY excited to see what you did
I have a large property, so my heat source is a DIY solar thermal panel, and my "heat battery" is a 250 gallon IBC filled with water. Mains water flows through a copper coil immersed in the IBC, before going to my electric flash heater. The sun heats up the water in the IBC, and the mains water is so warm, the flash heater hardly runs at all. The panel and IBC form a thermosiphon, so that takes no power but the sun. The IBC cost me about $45. Not perfect, but my grid-tied PV system keeps me a negative balance with the electric company, so "good enough" is fine.
At 70 years old, I am not going to move from my townhouse. IF I was 40, I would triple or quadruple the insulation in my walls & ceilings. Same for windows, triple pane at least. I did add extra insulation to my attic & may add even more.
This is an excellent video. I have wondered in the past, if hand warmers could be used to store heat at a much higher level. It’s nice to know companies are looking into it, and it’s on sale, although at an early stage.
It seems the "complications" of this PhChMo (peechimö) depend mostly of the COMPETENCE of the constructors [assuming the blueprints are correct]. So it goes in the same category than roofing with solar panels [you may have serious problems if this is tasked to people who had no proper training or a lot of experience].
In American houses interior walls are hollow , you just need to pack pcm in there and run pipes from thermal solar panels to it. But I have better design for heating and heat storage for new construction
Heating and cooling a home becomes alot more efficiency when the size of the room or house is smaller. Design homes with high utility and less mass wasted space and this alone will drop the cost for heating and cooling. This combined with good insulation and a efficient heating and cooling systems is $$$ Loft/bunk bedrooms can pretty much give u double the space and have 2 functions for a room with a smaller bedroom size. Kitchens don't need to be huge(look at food trucks) Dining room/living room combo has worked for many parties and get togethers. People like big living rooms and dining areas BUT combo rooms are the way to go. For the rich people trying to be eco, NOT EVERY ROOM NEEDS TO BE HEATED/COOLED in your billion dollar house Also idk blankets and dressing warm is good for cold weather. For Hot weather, cold shower, popsicles, and just dealing with it like how are ancestors use to do it. Poor people know whats up. People make the solution sound so hard but when in reality you just need to down size, and except less. Can't all live like kings.
very interesting..as usual..may be i missed the part about how to manage the temperature when using the phase change blankets - you mentioned there needs to be a specific temp change day to night, but presumably there is a relationship between how much is installed and the volume of the space with the temperature required. The water heaters feel more obvious but again hot water on demand is often reliant on specific use cases. I can see it working with a much smaller hot water in line storage tank perhaps to manage that - though i'll look into Sunamp's products more carefully now for our new refurbishment.
PS thanks for the Belinda Carr link - she notes that phase change panels are a supplement to work with traditional insulation rather than as a replacement.....
3:39. I mean…… that’s not true. It’s efficient if you have good insulation. These phase change cells also have insulation. It’s the same principle. You are storing heat for later use.
Dear Matt. Persumed energy consumption for a heat pump for 2+2 family here, in the center of Europe is around 1500kWh. So cheap heat pump+3 PV panels with microinverters. You get same result, cheaper. More efficient. You forget, altough I have real respect for you as a really elightened person, that resistance heating is really not efficient heating. It is a good idea, but should be coupled with heat pump and solar panels. That would be something like Chuck Norris with light saber.
Would love to learn more about PCMs in the future. Read about these in Popular Science decades ago and it's great learning about where they're fitting in now.
Separate comment, just because lol. A figure about PCMS that always blows my mind is that if you have a bucket of water at zero degrees Celsius melted and you have a bucket of ice at 0° solid the amount of energy to make the solid 0° water to get to the liquid 0° water would turn the 0° liquid water to 60 degrees Celsius
I’d love to integrate PCM and the hot water battery into a home build someday! Love the idea. This, combined with some of the ideas from a video you did a while back regarding energy-efficient homes (I wish I could remember the exact title you used!), I see a big long term benefit.
Heard of PCM before, but didn't know it got to market now. Sounds very promising for various applications. If i had my own home, i would consider using it.
It needed a heat source; you are basically running a heat engine instead of an electric motor. A refrigerator is basically a heat engine being run in reverse.
Still used in RV refrigerators, usually burning propane as the heat source. Seems like it could be used more with solar for daytime cooling, though I don't know how it compares to heatpump efficiency.
@@ralphbell1786 thermodynamically the heat pump and refrigerator are same product but used differently. Both need input energy to transfer heat from a lower temp to a higher temp. But how they calculate the efficiency is a bit of an art, rather than science.
Also one thing to consider. Phase change is a way to store a lot of heat in small place. In some regins of the civilized world houses are bulid of modern ceramic brick. Which is not very space efficient, but a real energy store device. If your house is an energy store device, you don't need phase change untill you want to boil an egg. I think being involved in business of using renewable energy for modernizations thermal storeage based on phase change is only part of system, that will be still based on heat pumps. Why? I can use SG Ready protocol to make stuff work almost the same way today only using energy source and a heat pump.
*Make Your Own!* You can also make you own Phase Change Thermal Storage by filling empty drink bottles with the Phase Change material and placing the bottles on wire shelves with air gaps in between the bottles for air circulation up and down. Don't want to see shelves full of bottles? Put a folding room divider around the shelves, with a gap of about 4 inches/10 cm between wall and divider. Or attach fabric of your choice directly to the vertical pipes of the shelves, leaving the top open and an air gap of 4 to 6 inches/10 to 15 cm below the bottom shelf.
Pricey for domestic use, but I definitely see the benefit for using them in the medium and long term, and I would be inclined to do so... early adoption always tends to be expensive...
I’d like some black tubes filled with PCM that I can put by my south-facing windows in the winter. It’d be a simple and inexpensive way to store solar heat in the daytime and release the heat when the room cools at night.
I’m not sure if it is specifically considered a phase change material, but you should look at ice block air conditioning units for an example of this for cooling. I have heard of units that freeze a block of ice at night, then use that ice to cool a building through the day.
Would you want any of these phase change products for your home? To get an EcoFlow Delta Max, Delta Pro or some of their great accessories, go to the EcoFlow website: us.ecoflow.com/?aff=195 or to Amazon: amzn.to/3vSDqhZ.
If you liked this video, check out How the CO2 battery could be the future of energy storage? th-cam.com/video/GSzh8D8Of0k/w-d-xo.html
Mr. Ferrel, Please, Keep yourself and us informed. many thanks for your efforts.
SALT, answer for heating and electrical battarys, and can Salt heating battery work included with pcm??
Ecoflow offered to pay me $100 to remove my negative review, they have been caught removing and adding the same product on Amazon to reset reviews. I know bills need to be paid but disappointing to see you supporting this shady company.
There is also a company who makes a ice battery that builds off solar panels during day, and defrost overnight when it’s used as A/C to cool your home when solar doesn’t produce, I was looking for options to use extra solar power produced during summer in desert, vs pumping back into the grid, about 6 years ago, there are some smart products out there!
Have you noticed the Scams going on in the comments?
With your Pic and a Whatsapp number.
30 years ago I worked for a company that was trying to get into this market. Their use case was for long haul trucks. The idea was that many truckers ran their trucks at night to keep the sleeper warm in the winter. They planned to use the excess heat will driving to store heat for night so the engine could be shut off. I left the company and lost track of the project, but I think it is safe to assume it went nowhere.
for moving vehicles, the weight could be the real issue. You need a lot of stuff to store some meaningful amount of energy. Interestingly, water has a high specific heat and also high latent heat of melting and boiling.
Nons of the products matt finds have or will l8keky go anywhere it s3ems, quite disappointing.
@@janami-dharmam Steam cars/trucks/boats/subs/most large industrial "engines"in the world use steam and have a TON of power. For exactly those reasons Uses to build hobby steam engines, its scary if there's a leak or God forbid a boiler burst.
Sunamp trialled a system on London buses which typically sit running for a while in a morning to warm up. The Sunamp unit stored heat during the previous day's use then released it early morning the next day to warm up the engine, reducing emissions significantly.
That's interesting! Seems like something like that could help avoid the need for plugging in diesel engine block heaters overnight in freezing conditions too.
I've been using a PCM "chill vest" for years. It has large packs of a gell that solidifies at 57 F, so I store it in the freezer and wear it when I'm doing yardwork on a hot day. It's not exactly a 'still suit' from Dune, but it definitely makes me more comfortable and productive.
I have seen them being used as ice-packs to transport chemicals that must be stored cool. They are sealed and that is the only advantage (no mess). They can be used over and over again. But I do not know what is there in the gel.
Can you link to the chill vest or packs you are using? I have a need for such a product.
i just soak myself when it gets too hot lol
@@nou5440 got someone working near high voltage electrics without A/C in Georgia heat. Water based cooling is a no-go.
@@nou5440 that doesn't work in the southern or eastern United States
Thanks for the video. I do like that the Delta Max has the option to add a couple of extra batteries.
Looks like this Delta Max is the best solution for power outages. With 2kWh of power it will have no problem at all.
They are convenient.. I have one, but I wouldn’t buy it again. It was nice to start learning about this stuff, but If I could do it over again, I would just get raw batteries, a solar charge controller and an inverter. The efficiency of the delta’s is atrocious, like low 80%’s. I dont regret it though, I learned A LOT using the ecoflows.
@@BLASTIC0 I have a feeling that the original comment was sarcastic ;)
@@gustru2078 oh, lol. Duh 🙄
A kWh is not a measure of power, but of energy
An hour is 3600 sec.
It does show a lot of potential. Since you can add extra batteries and increase the capacity to 6kWh. It will definitely come in handy during blackouts.
To an extent. One of the biggest advantage of a heat pump cylinder, is that they've got a COP of at least 3 which is pretty decent
Meanwhile, batteries don't have that same COP. I was looking into getting a heat pump cylinder without having a heat pump outside the house, and it's not possible (I thought I could perhaps gradually move up)
I've known about sunamp for a fair amount of if time. I'm also in the UK, so I've followed UK solar news somewhat. The absolutely biggest drawbacks of sunamp does appear to be the lack of a COP (Other than the price ofc)
A sunamp battery is obviously better for smaller homes where they can't even have a cylinder
When used as "insulation" PCM simply increases the thermal mass in a much denser way than traditional insulation, but only right around the phase temperature. For homes that seems like it would be only advantageous in certain areas that fluctuate past that phase temperature, or fluctuate past the holding temperature, for a large portion of the year. In more extreme areas, like the northern US, a significant portion of the year is just cold and the PCM wouldn't help much.
I see an application like Sunamp's thermal batteries as a much better use case as the energy fluctuations are in a much narrower band, allowing for more optimization.
The other case where it might make sense is in areas with time of use billing. TechnologyConnections mentioned that's how he deals with his home in summer. Crank the AC at night, then let the house warm up during the day. Of course, for such a simple application a dedicated chiller and ice would also work.
@@arthurmoore9488 The problem with the ice approche is efficiency.
The greater the temperature delta the lower the COP for a refrigerant cycle is. You can get COPs of 6 during times of the day cooling isn't normally required like late at night. So long as your only cooling down to like 68 or something.
This means that not only are you getting better time of use for the power but also its being used more efficiently.
Ice requires going down to 32/0 vs outside air which even at night is often 60-80 degrees during the summer.
So the COP may be as low as 1-2 to generate the ice vs the 4-6 of lowering a thermal mass at near the houses optimal temp.
*Coefficient of performance, the thermal energy moved/generated in watts vs the electrical/fuel energy consumed in watts. 4 is 400% 2 is 200% ect.
Even in cold climates (not extreme North, but still cold), you need to think beyond ambient temps. The sun-facing sides of buildings can absorb a significant amount of solar radiation during the day and could release it during the night. Use would be limited to specific locations, but still viable.
@@Mike80528 exactly. I have a house in Wyoming. As we know, the winters in Wyoming can be brutal. The south wall of my house has a sliding gass door. During the day, quite a bit of solar energy comes through that door. The floor re-radiates quite a bit of that into the house as heat. The floor is just vinyl on strandboard decking, so no real thermal mass. These phase changing materials, sandwiched between the floor joist would give the advantage of large thermal mass, without the large mass.
@@nocare You my dear need to go back to school. The HIGHER the T delta the MORE efficient a heat pump is. To achieve this high COP you have to have a large enough Heat exchanger... Which nearly EVERYONE skimps on and why the efficiency of said heat pump SUCKS. This is why, if you have free water, you squirt water onto your CHEAP ass heat exchanger to achieve superior results. Likewise nearly everyone also goes ultra CHEAP on the pump as most have a SINGLE speed (Q flow) instead of variable speed. And nearly NO one has a two stage Heat Pump based on total (Q required). Obviously the working fluid has an impact, but minimal for residential/commercial real estate in the grand scheme of COP.
We've had two SunAmps in our passive house since 2017 🙂 We just use off-peak mains power to heat these overnight and are fairly light HW users. Apart from energy density, the heat losses are fantastically low compared to a conventional UVC. E.g. our CH control system went offline whilst we were on holiday -- our son took 4 days to notice that the showers were running cold! Nice and simple we've never noticed water heating / flow issues in nearly 5 years of use.
Is it a case of great heat retention, or simply when the cat's away, the mice will not wash :-). Seriously though, going to look into those Thermino systems.
@@jamestripptrapp Heat retention. The compact cuboid form factor and vacuum panel insulation make a huge difference to hear losses. My 2 SAs lose about 1kWh per day between them.
How do you have these hooked up? Is it like a separate loop from the hot water heater with a pump? How does it know to charge/cycle?
@@tscook10, the system complies with UK codes. The whole HW + CW system is potable and fed from the rising main via coarse filter + 3 bar limiter then through a water softener. (Main pressure is a consistent 3-3½ bar. ) The HW branch goes through 2 parallel but individually isolatable SunAmps (so we can tolerate one out of service, ableit at reduced max flow) that act as heat exchangers in flow terms. The HW outputs are TRV mixed down to around 48°C at the HW manifold. All appliances and white-goods are each fed on a 1-1 isolatable spur from a manifold. The H/W will typically be at a couple of bar when flowing through this can drop to maybe 1½ bar if 2 or three showers are going at once. We've 3 ensuites, one bath/shower room + utility, kitchen and G/F toilet. Never had any flow probs.
@@TerryE-UK So the hot branch is one-way through the heater and then the sunamp? My understanding is that the SunAmp doesn't incorporate a heater, correct?
Good job, editor! We appreciate you doing your job despite the constant power outages! Remember to save your work often!
I have a Sunamp Thermino heat battery running with the ASHP installed 2 months ago and it is brilliant. Works very efficiently and is economical to use for all our hot water needs in a 4 bed detached house although only occupied with 2 old wrinklies at home now.
I researched thermal storage materials during my diploma (equivalent to a master thesis). I think a small fact in the video could be misinterpreded: Most salt hydrates for thermal storage are no PCMs! They are usually used as thermochemical energy storage materials. Water vapor will be incorporated in the crystal structure of the salt, which releases a lot of energy. They have a higher theoretical energy density than PCMs (but have other issues for household usage).
However both material classes have a huge potential.
So the salt hydrate systems are not bound to a specific temperature band at atmospheric pressure? That seems to be the difficult limitation of PCM in a building.
@@armadillito They have other limitations than PCM: The dehydration temperatures are relatively high for most of these systems (they vary a lot depending on the salt used). Systems with lower dehydration temperatures have lower energy densities.... However, to "discharge" those systems, you only need humid air.
@@kleinerELM I wonder whether heat pumps could leverage PCMs or salts as an artificial source/sink where ground installation is unviable and air temperatures are extreme?
I've had a SunAmp Uniq12 since 2019 - it's great. In the winter we heat it with off-peak cheap electricity - between March and October surplus PV from our solar panels is more than sufficient to provide us with hot water and heat our towel rails. Having potable, mains pressure hot water is fabulous!
On the flip side, PCM's integrated into refrigeration units on the cold side can help alleviate short cycling and reduce total energy use. Instead of kicking on the compressor because the door was opened, air is circulated across the PCM to bring the temperature back down. This leads to longer compressor on times, less frequently, which is better for longevity of the compressor.
I worked with a PCM blanket developer in San Antonio back in 2013 while in the energy-efficient home business. I would have liked to see the platform under front-loading washers and dryers be the PCM hot water tank without the water. Layer the ketchup packet-sized blankets with copper tubing in an insulated box and run the hot water plumbing through the connections.
I have a PV charged Sunamp fitted as the hot water provider for a detached 3 bedroom house in the UK and have found that it provides just about all the hot water we need in summer. Having a EV we also have a cheap night tariff so as well as charging the car we also can charge the Sunamp if it needs to be topped off if there has not been enough sun during the day.
The pillow I use has PCM in it to help maintain comfortable temperature. After 2 or 3 years of use I've never once felt that it was too hot or too cold. Material science is so cool.
The key to the efficiency of such units as the Sunamp is that they can store a huge amount of thermal energy without the temperature changing and thus they do not need massive amounts of inrulation to retain that heat.
The Sunamp also uses Vacuum Insulation Panels - which it is able to do because the "tank" is cubical, so flat surfaces to insulate. They provide excellent insulation. But as you say - having most of the energy stored not increase the storage medium's temperature is a big help.
Also, unlike a sealed water tank, the whole thing is at atmospheric pressure, so there's no danger of a steam explosion.
The major downside is the weight of the units, as they arrive pre-filled - unlike a water tank that is fairly light (if bulky) until you fill it with water. And they're a little more expensive than an "equivalent" water tank.
@@justinmacneil623 As I understand they are sized to fit in with kitchen units so in most cases will sit on a solid floor.
Hey Matt,
Thanks for the video. As an FYI, VAT is 20% here in the UK do its quite a bit pricier.
It's only 5% on energy saving products such as this boiler.
Currently 0%, from 1st April 2022 until 31st March 2027 from Chancellor's spring budget. Then would presumably revert back to 5%.
@@allenscoging8561 Thanks for that. I hadn't realise the zero rate took immediate effect when it was announced. This is good to know.
@@notapplicable4637 It's only 0/5% on certain energy saving items (per gov.uk, "Not all products or installations qualify for the lower rate"), and if you're in NI it's slightly different again. I think something like this would be probably be on the lower VAT rate, but you don't want to get caught out by thinking you'll pay 0/5% and then having a nearly 15% (or more) higher bill.
@@notapplicable4637 It's not for consumers, it's for contractors/installers. They don't necessarily pass on the VAT discount to you.
If you live somewhere that the night time temps are low and daytime temps are high, this would work simply by selectively exposing the material to indoor air or outdoor air, or even just letting sit there in the wall/attic and serve as a buffer. But if it is always too hot (summer time in about 2/3 of the US) or always too cold (about 2/3 of the US in the winter), then you can't get your product to phase change without a lot of complicated heat management. For example, you could have solar water heating panels in the North and you could pump your water (glycol) through them, let the water heat to above the PCM melting point, then circulate it into the PCM during the day, then circulate through the pcm and air handler inside the house at night. But now you added a significant level of cost and complexity and lots of failure points.
This is what we need to see from all levels of government. Support of these new materials and technologies. The immediate change of building codes to include these things and drive towards passive/net zero. NOT taxing the use of existing forms of heating and cooling systems and fuels. The more new technologies are used the cheaper and more available they become!!
Another good PCM is greenery on facades, cooling your wall with water vapour and warming by providing surface area for dew condensation and frost sublimation. Included is a insulation layer of air between the leaves and the wall, which saves even more energy. 😁
Yeah ivy growing on your house does wonders in the summer.
A low-tech alternative is just having thick walls. The large thermal mass has a similar effect.
I'm glad someone pointed this out. There was a reason stone buildings like castles (the main building itself, not the outer protective walls) and even Victorian era houses were built with very thick external walls, and why even the interior seperator walls were also thick and made of stone or brick. It wasn't anything to do with protection - not even in the castle's case. It was to do with keeping those buildings warm in the winter and cool in the summer. And why such massive buildings could be kept that way with only a small handful of oversized fireplaces. The idea of castles always being cold and/or damp are false - like any king or noble is going to want to spend all that money only to end up in a freezing building. Same went for Victorian era houses. And yet we seem to have completely lost or forgotten all the lessons learned since those ages and now build our houses with walls as thin as we can get away with, out of materials that AREN'T good at thermal management (like wood and plasterboard) and wonder why they're so damned expensive to keep comfortable.
@@DavidStruveDesigns 🪵 is a gr8 renewable resource, but ur right about current construction being profit-focused & often low-quality.
#materials
Too easy an answer for libtards…
I commented on this above. Built 13 homes with this method. Very doable.
Just came back from a trip in Europe, where houses are build in bricks with a fair amount of insulation. Despite the heat during the day (summer 2022) no AC was needed and I slept fine at night. This is certainly not the case here in my US house...
Adjacent to this subject, I have a PCM component to my mattress because I'm a very hot sleeper (to the point that during the summer it was... unpleasant). Made a huge difference.
Thank you for the video.
This brings back memories: I grow up in a small town in China, and our school don’t have HVAC, so we would get those PCM handwarmer and boil it when I get home to reuse
[Bonus Points]: If the phase change "modules" installed inside walls/ceilings are placed between two thin polyester wadding films (without touching them, keeping enough flow of air going through the modules from the hidden ventilation system), the acoustic insulation benefits do not compete with the thermal regulation eficiency.
Matt, I'd just like to say that I really appreciate what you and your team are doing! You're single-handedly educating a world of people and will definitely have an impact on our future. Thanks man!
BMW actually had these kind of sodium heat storage systems in some models of their cars. I had a 2000 528i that had one of these installed. Was supposed to help in the winter by allowing the car to store heat so when you turned on the cabin heater, it would get warmer faster. Was not a huge difference, but I did notice I had heat much sooner out of the vents than the same car without that system.
I was thinking about replacing my hot water tank with a tankless solution. Your video definitely helped open my eyes to other options, but there's still a lot of information I am missing. I'd love a more in-depth look at them with more solid comparisons between existing and accessible products, and the pros and cons!
I'm not sure I would buy into the hot water heater aspect, but using these materials to insulate a living space, especially here in the South, would be a good move and I would definitely jump on board with that. The fact that they wokr even when the power is out is a huge bonus. This, plus retrofitting with solar panels, are the two main things I would do with a new home here.
I had some knowledge about ice storage for commercial buildings HVAC and phase change cooling vests. So this seemed to be theoretically very doable. But this was the first that I have seen a presentation about it actually being marketed and used. Thanks for the video.
Or just build your wall out of concrete/brick and use the thermal mass of a building as a battery. I live in a house that doesn't need air conditioning as the walls are 35cm of solid brick and another 20cm of EPS insulation on the outside. When the temperature was 36°C outside the inside was at a cool 22°C. Max out air fresh system or open up windows at night and it cools the house back to 20°C.
The only benefit i see of a PCM in this aplication is it uses less space but it's probably a lot more expensive.
You did it correctly - insulation on the outside, thermal mass on the inside. This same arrangement is key for PCM too. In the U.S., many people are stuck with the house built as it is, so ideas like PCM help for retrofit of a structure that cannot support new brick wall construction.
The trick with PCMs is that they have a specific temperature they don't want to cross. Just like you can bring water to 100°C (212F) and then have to add and add and add more energy for ages until it finally becomes steam and gets to 101°C, those PCMs resist being heated/cooled over their melting point.
A thick brick wall doesn't do this. It has a large thermal mass, but it won't stick to the temperature you want to have. It's just slow to move at all. A PCM layer tuned to 22°C (72F) will stick to that temperature as long as it can. If the temperature drops below, it will give off heat (at 22°C) until it is completely frozen. If the temperature rises above, it will stay cool (at 22°C) until its completely melted.
It's like walking up a mountain and hitting a wall with a ladder. You will need to spend plenty of energy going up the ladder but won't move a single inch forward while doing so. Your concrete wall is just a steeper mountain.
the three little piggies knew something
GE filed for a patent back in 2010 for a water heater utilizing PCM. The patent was assigned to HAIER in 2016.
Yep I've had my hot water heated by a SunAmp PCM Thermino Heat Battery for the past 3+ years. Brilliant! There are several versions and I have one which has two heating methods and mine is optimised for Solar PV/Off-Peak-Grid recharging providing the equivalent of over 210 litres of instantly heated water from the stored energy. The alternative method of heating is by a second heat-exchanger and so there is a second pair of 22mm pipes connected to a Gas boiler or Solar Thermal or high-temperature Heat Pump (low-temperature Heat Pump version has PCM tunes to change phase at a different lower temperature). Because my unit is optimised for Solar PV recharging using an electrical heater. When charged via the electrical source 100% of the capacity is utilised, but when charged via the alternative source heat exchanger only 80% of the capacity is achieved (by design). I used to have a 1st Generation SunAmp which was optimised for charging from my gas boiler as the primary means and that could be fully charged by the heat exchanger with the electric charging as a backup only, but now I'm fitting PV there is a different use case. SunAmp Heat batteries can also be configured and installed as a buffer Heat Store with a Heat Pump allowing the heat pump to optimise its efficiency and then (Wet radiator based) central heating can pull the heat from this Store intermittently on demand thereby decoupling Heat Pump cycling from central heating varying demands allowing for smaller Heat Pumps.
Another heat storage Becoming more popular in the UK is "Mixergy" using a sophisticated control system with a large water storage tank that heats the water from the top down in such a way as to create a Barrier zone between hot and cold water in the tank by use of a pump and clever nozzles. In addition to this, the control circuit can be networked across the UK allowing the system to dump excess cheap energy into the hot water tank to help balance the grid. Several thousands of these have been already installed in a large pilot scheme.
Thanks for more fascinating and potentially very useful information Matt.
My family and I are Australian and a few years ago our old immersion element hot water reservoir gasped it's last.
We were advised by a plumber and family acquaintance that a 'Nanny' State Government was exerting strong pressure for installation of more energy efficient 'heat pump' systems during both new builds and replacements.
Although a heat pump water heater was substantially more expensive than an immersion element model we decided to be environmentally responsible and spend the extra money on a locally made heat pump.
Whereas our old immersion heater had lasted for more than forty years to our great regret and expense the heat pump failed within a mere five, years and would have been absurdly expensive to repair.
We called the same plumber who installed the heat pump and were advised that heat pumps had "turned out to be a bad idea due to unreliability" and that the State Government had reverted to recommending immersion element heated units subject to specifically limited maximum reservoir capacity!
You realise that all air conditioners are heatpumps, right? Anyone whinging about heat pumps has zero clue.
Thund3rf00t will enjoy this. :D
I live in a ground floor apt. My windows are at road level so I don’t need ac in the summer, even at over 90f. I’m only 50% underground too! In the Colorado winters, it doesn’t take much to keep it cozy either. Matt, you should either consider going underground or partially underground. That’s the most efficient setup.
Thanks!
I thought that I had the video player in 2x speed setting, but no, its just Matt`s usual speaking speed WOW!
I was in China 3 months in 2007. Almost every building I saw had Solar Heaters with a tank on the roof. Super simple and worked great. One time in Yangshwo near Guilin when the power was out so no water being pumped I needed some water in the bathroom. So I thought oh hot water on the roof and yes the gravity fed hot worked while the cold needing an electric driven pump did not. Seems all houses should have that solar water heater with optional electric heater or heat reservoir in case all the hot water is used up. Surprising there aren't clothes dryers which use heat from a solar mass heated up by the sun during the day.
I love that it just works without electricity or other actions. It's great as non-toxic. Only cost and effectiveness are the limits.
I can't find it now, but I remember reading about a company that was researching incorporating PCM capsules in their drywall insulation and it reduced the cost of heating in the building by 20%. I'm always shocked at how this hasn't taken off, I used to know a friend who had a wood stove in their basement and they had an old crock pot that they filled with paraffin wax bricks and when they turn on their wood stove it would melt the pot, and then they would move the pot to their work area where they were in down there and it would keep that room while also still sending the wood stove heat up into the rest of the house.
Hi Matt, could you please do a series on your home build? I suspect many of your followers would love to see what all of your insight can yield in a new home.
Belinda Carr 🤩
Her channel is a gold mine
I can see a possible use for this product in the greenhouse industry. I would look at hanging rows of panels from under the trusses in a north/south orientation, 90 Degrees to the ground. Because they are reflective, light loss would be minimal. Greenhouse structures fit the bill of heating up rapidly during the day and loosing lots of energy at night. Even at -30C greenhouses will vent heat with full sun, but the boilers run non stop at night. As always, you've got me thinking.
flagstones
Another great video. Glad you mentioned your video and copy editors. Yours are the best quality videos of my taste on TH-cam. I appreciate that.
I can think of two good applications for pcm, one is to freeze a large quantity (a block the size of a refrigerator) on a hot sunny day to operate a cold loop through an air/liquid heat exchange for after sundown AC. The other is to store summertime heat (in something the size of a small swimming pool) to use in the winter to heat the house.
The key to phase change material is how much energy it takes to change phase. Imagine boiling a litre of water in your kettle. It takes what, a minute? Now how long does it take to boil the litre away, phase changing it into a gas? Twenty minutes, more?
We could calculate it / measure it but the point is, there's much, much more energy in the phase change than there is in just raising the temp 75 degrees or so.
7:54 It's interesting, kinda works like any structure that has good thermal mass like a basement but with a state change to absorb or release that extra heat still i don't know about the precise temperatures you would need for this to be efficient, especially in places with extreme temperature fluctuation between the season. Like something that is great in summer could be bad in winter and vice versa.
I think part of the problem, for me, an efficient user, is that we have different set points in the summer and winter. You would have to pick a material for one of those seasons and stick with it. I guess that's not a huge problem for very hot or very cold places with only one energy intensive season, but there are many places (like the midwest and southeast united states) that have significant heating and cooling seasons, and these places often use the most energy.
@@tscook10 Yeah, idk seems to me that it's better to simply have good insulation because it's just as effective in any weather since you know it keeps better whatever temp your system is pumping out
The big untapped potential in this is an ability to keep buildings comfortable while allowing the HVAC system to cycle according to energy management instructions from aggregators/ISOs. That would solve the renewable intermitentcy issue by allowing heating (and most transportation) load to be managed to match supply curves rather than having to manage supply to meet demand curves.
I learned about PCMs when taking a class on greenhouse management and we were talking about ways to regulate the temperature.
Standard VAT rate in UK is 20% - the rate for the Thermino may be different but our government isn't known for encouraging environmental progress (eg insulation is still 20% VAT)...
That VAT rules changed in April so I’m pretty sure alternative boilers like this are 0%
www.gov.uk/tax-on-shopping/energy-saving-products
For domestic energy use, VAT is charged at 5% in the UK. Businesses pay the 20% rate for the most part, though.
That's a cool idea. Even for passive heating and cooling. The temperature of the dwelling would be buffered at the transition temperature of the substance. That would be great for my place, which heats up and cools down each day with the sun. The cabin could stay at a comfortable temperature for longer, both as it warms and as it cools.
thank you so much for the presentation of the phase change materials, and their implementation. I've been a fan for a long time and i really appreciate your information. i work in a solar company called Apparent that has been dealing with a solar heating system and you set my eyes on a good energy storage medium. thank you for the high end data analysis.
The energy blanket could be the perfect product for a greenhouse wall.
Greenhouses easily overheat during the day and often need a heat boost at night
This could reduce needs for both heating and venting
I have a Sunamp Thermino ePV 300 which replaced our old water tank. Its fantastic and lasts far longer in a smaller form factor
The ENRG panel reminds me of why houses are built the way they are in the UK, lots of Stone or bricks. As heat rises, the stone absorbs heat, and lets it out at night and as it gets cold and start using heating (traditionally you'd have fires on all winter) the heat in the walls is maintained like a thermal battery. These days, heating is expensive, we rarely use fires and therefore our homes are not working the way they were designed, so require retrofitting. Heat is provided by fast, very hot solutions.
Thank you 🙏 again for your EXCELLENT work 🙏👏👏👏
#1,I THINK living in a 4 season state this PCM technology is not that attractive yet but I'm no engineer.
#2, Can't wait to see your new home and it's modern solutions
#3, your channel is still an awesome resource second to NONE 🥇🏆
I could imagine combining PCM with heat pumps would be an optimal combination!
Now imagining combining the Energy panels in the walls with the super-reflecting space cooling from another of your videos, plus ultra reflective paint on the outer walls.
At 6:01 - UK VAT. The general rate now is 20%. Some sustainability products are free of VAT, or at a reduced rate of 5%, but as things stand, Sunamp products attract the full 20% (to my knowledge.)
Thanks for introducing me to Belinda's channel!
I think the idea of the Sun-Amp solar battery will be the most widely used. I'd love to combine that with a hybrid PV/Thermal array especially in conjunction with a ground sourced heat pump.
Seems like the perfect isolation for a campervan/ caravan…
Would be interesting what transition is possible…
The Apollo 15 to 17 Moon Mission *_Lunar Rovers_* had Paraffin heat exchangers to regulate the Battery temperature, during and after the Lunar Rover use!
The more options we have, the better. Thanks for covering all of them :)
A PCM water heater would be a perfect pedestal for front loading washer/dryers. An insulated box with layers of PCM sheets and water tubing.
The Dry HPWH could be part of the home's HVAC.
Ahhh Sunamp, actually a really cool concept and already making its way into UK homes, good stuff it is
Ceres Greenhouses in Boulder has been employing phase change wall panels in their projects for some time now, with good results
I bet these kind of materials would have great usage in public buildings. Here in Finland it's mostly cold and heating is needed almost all year around and that's why all buildings are insulated very well. However in office building or school for example, good insulation with alot of people inside heat up the space quickly so there's also cooling systems! (which is kind of bizarre...)
These kind of materials could be a great addition to catch the heat from people during the day and release it at night.
One thing didn't come apparent though and that's the danger of condensation when absorbing heat. Maybe I need to take a closer look of these...
It's exciting be this close to casually moving heat around instead of recreating it every time we need it.
Summoning Maxwell's Daemons!!
Hmmm. Get a pair of materials with high and low transition temps, then actively mix between the reservoirs, as needed. Maybe 50 C and 0 C. Trading off computational function against control of large energy sources. You use a smaller reservoir, and get more flexibility.
Love the video as always Matt. Not to be impatient or rush, but is there any ROUGH timeline for the house build videos? I know these things take time, but am VERY excited to see what you did
I have a large property, so my heat source is a DIY solar thermal panel, and my "heat battery" is a 250 gallon IBC filled with water. Mains water flows through a copper coil immersed in the IBC, before going to my electric flash heater. The sun heats up the water in the IBC, and the mains water is so warm, the flash heater hardly runs at all. The panel and IBC form a thermosiphon, so that takes no power but the sun. The IBC cost me about $45. Not perfect, but my grid-tied PV system keeps me a negative balance with the electric company, so "good enough" is fine.
At 70 years old, I am not going to move from my townhouse. IF I was 40, I would triple or quadruple the insulation in my walls & ceilings. Same for windows, triple pane at least. I did add extra insulation to my attic & may add even more.
This is an excellent video. I have wondered in the past, if hand warmers could be used to store heat at a much higher level. It’s nice to know companies are looking into it, and it’s on sale, although at an early stage.
It seems the "complications" of this PhChMo (peechimö) depend mostly of the COMPETENCE of the constructors [assuming the blueprints are correct].
So it goes in the same category than roofing with solar panels [you may have serious problems if this is tasked to people who had no proper training or a lot of experience].
In American houses interior walls are hollow , you just need to pack pcm in there and run pipes from thermal solar panels to it. But I have better design for heating and heat storage for new construction
Heating and cooling a home becomes alot more efficiency when the size of the room or house is smaller. Design homes with high utility and less mass wasted space and this alone will drop the cost for heating and cooling. This combined with good insulation and a efficient heating and cooling systems is $$$
Loft/bunk bedrooms can pretty much give u double the space and have 2 functions for a room with a smaller bedroom size.
Kitchens don't need to be huge(look at food trucks)
Dining room/living room combo has worked for many parties and get togethers.
People like big living rooms and dining areas BUT combo rooms are the way to go.
For the rich people trying to be eco, NOT EVERY ROOM NEEDS TO BE HEATED/COOLED in your billion dollar house
Also idk blankets and dressing warm is good for cold weather. For Hot weather, cold shower, popsicles, and just dealing with it like how are ancestors use to do it.
Poor people know whats up.
People make the solution sound so hard but when in reality you just need to down size, and except less. Can't all live like kings.
very interesting..as usual..may be i missed the part about how to manage the temperature when using the phase change blankets - you mentioned there needs to be a specific temp change day to night, but presumably there is a relationship between how much is installed and the volume of the space with the temperature required. The water heaters feel more obvious but again hot water on demand is often reliant on specific use cases. I can see it working with a much smaller hot water in line storage tank perhaps to manage that - though i'll look into Sunamp's products more carefully now for our new refurbishment.
PS thanks for the Belinda Carr link - she notes that phase change panels are a supplement to work with traditional insulation rather than as a replacement.....
I never saw the hard numbers: how many joules one kg of the stuff (PCM) can store or deliver around room temperature? say 20-25C?
Imagine what happens when those massive ENRG blankets at our north and south poles have phase changed.
3:39. I mean…… that’s not true. It’s efficient if you have good insulation. These phase change cells also have insulation. It’s the same principle. You are storing heat for later use.
Nice shout out to Belinda Carr!
Dear Matt. Persumed energy consumption for a heat pump for 2+2 family here, in the center of Europe is around 1500kWh. So cheap heat pump+3 PV panels with microinverters. You get same result, cheaper. More efficient. You forget, altough I have real respect for you as a really elightened person, that resistance heating is really not efficient heating. It is a good idea, but should be coupled with heat pump and solar panels. That would be something like Chuck Norris with light saber.
Would love to learn more about PCMs in the future. Read about these in Popular Science decades ago and it's great learning about where they're fitting in now.
I can see why you appreciate water for heating and cooling, water holds heat about 7.5% better than solid mass.
Thanks for the Belinda Carr suggestion.
Separate comment, just because lol. A figure about PCMS that always blows my mind is that if you have a bucket of water at zero degrees Celsius melted and you have a bucket of ice at 0° solid the amount of energy to make the solid 0° water to get to the liquid 0° water would turn the 0° liquid water to 60 degrees Celsius
I’d love to integrate PCM and the hot water battery into a home build someday! Love the idea. This, combined with some of the ideas from a video you did a while back regarding energy-efficient homes (I wish I could remember the exact title you used!), I see a big long term benefit.
Undecided... good food for thought. Thanks!
Heard of PCM before, but didn't know it got to market now. Sounds very promising for various applications. If i had my own home, i would consider using it.
VAT in the UK is 20% you can reclaim the VAT if it is a new build, but not for a refurbishment.
This video will get Matt into hot water with traditional companies.
Heyooo!
Yes we have. They are actually getting popular In UK right now.
Years ago Crosley made a refrigerator called the Icey Ball it used ammonia to exchange heat with no power needed.
It needed a heat source; you are basically running a heat engine instead of an electric motor. A refrigerator is basically a heat engine being run in reverse.
Still used in RV refrigerators, usually burning propane as the heat source. Seems like it could be used more with solar for daytime cooling, though I don't know how it compares to heatpump efficiency.
@@ralphbell1786 thermodynamically the heat pump and refrigerator are same product but used differently. Both need input energy to transfer heat from a lower temp to a higher temp. But how they calculate the efficiency is a bit of an art, rather than science.
Ahh, like the old bathtub in the greenhouse to keep the veggies from frostbite...
So, yes, I would like something with a phase change above freezing.
Also one thing to consider. Phase change is a way to store a lot of heat in small place. In some regins of the civilized world houses are bulid of modern ceramic brick. Which is not very space efficient, but a real energy store device. If your house is an energy store device, you don't need phase change untill you want to boil an egg. I think being involved in business of using renewable energy for modernizations thermal storeage based on phase change is only part of system, that will be still based on heat pumps. Why? I can use SG Ready protocol to make stuff work almost the same way today only using energy source and a heat pump.
*Make Your Own!* You can also make you own Phase Change Thermal Storage by filling empty drink bottles with the Phase Change material and placing the bottles on wire shelves with air gaps in between the bottles for air circulation up and down. Don't want to see shelves full of bottles? Put a folding room divider around the shelves, with a gap of about 4 inches/10 cm between wall and divider. Or attach fabric of your choice directly to the vertical pipes of the shelves, leaving the top open and an air gap of 4 to 6 inches/10 to 15 cm below the bottom shelf.
Pricey for domestic use, but I definitely see the benefit for using them in the medium and long term, and I would be inclined to do so... early adoption always tends to be expensive...
I’d like some black tubes filled with PCM that I can put by my south-facing windows in the winter. It’d be a simple and inexpensive way to store solar heat in the daytime and release the heat when the room cools at night.
This (PCM) looks like it would be an excellent insulator to use in a tiny home or van build.
I’m not sure if it is specifically considered a phase change material, but you should look at ice block air conditioning units for an example of this for cooling. I have heard of units that freeze a block of ice at night, then use that ice to cool a building through the day.