I’m 63 now. When I was 18 I went to Nashville with my band to “make it”. We went back home with our tail between our legs with nothing but a dose of reality. I joined the Army shortly afterward and put my dreams on hold so I could take care of my wife and son. Now I’m retired from the Army and playing music and still in awe at how anyone can make it. We make $500-700 a gig for a 5 piece band. That’s not enough to live on. We can be selective but doing it for a living you can’t.
@ejj archer absolutely. I love that my youngest daughter wanted to play drums and sing. I was more than happy to pay for lessons for both, something I never had. I think all of the you tube content is great too for musicians to make extra money. I also play on a Worship Team but most of us are volunteers except for the Worship Leader. There are a lot of different ways to make money playing music and I wasn’t trying to imply differently. it’s a great time to be a musician in my opinion. I guess when I was younger I was from a small town in Georgia and just didn’t have a lot of options with music. Now I’m happy with my decision to join the Army and get to fly Apache helicopters for almost 30 years. I guess everything happens for a reason. I can enjoy playing guitar with my band and don’t have to worry about the financial aspect of it. I also agree with you to never give up on your dreams, sometimes they just take a little longer.
My younger brother is 35 at the moment & for the last 3 years he's been playing a gig or 2 on occasion every weekend either at a ski lodge, restaurant, bar, , private party or a wedding. He has a full time job working with extremely handicapped individuals (changes at least 50 diapers a day on adults), teaches part time at the local School of Rock & he's really happy to be a working musician. It's not the dream rockstar show but he's playing everyday & earning money because of it.
@@michaelpacinus242 Not at all, he's doing REALLY well since he lost his full time job as a banker in 2019! He works so hard & he's earning far less money than he was as a banker now, but is feeling REALLY fulfilled with the work he's doing, if anything I'm really proud of him!
I think part of the change is that venues now take a cut of merchandise sales. Back in the day merch sales were pure profit and where a band actually made their money.
It’s been happening since at least the 90’s, but now even smaller theaters and clubs are doing it. It’s because of LiveNation/Ticketmaster basically “owning” all of the significant venues.
@@DavidHBurkartnot the point and you know it. it's about the corporate interests taking everything they can from everyplace and everyone they can... they justify it as "growth" to the shareholders.
“Famous” bands, sure. The music industry is dead because it is less important. People listen to podcasts and are activists on Twitter. That’s why… no one has a need for music anymore. The only popular music is black because it’s still cool to be black… and you know the white girls love to squirt.
No one wants to admit it I guess. But music. Buying it. Playing it. Performing it. Producing it. It’s over. It’s been over for a while. People just refuse to admit it. The music business is like the Arcade business; once Xbox and the like came along, it was over. Same for music. Once people began to steal it for free via the net-- it was over. And it will never recover.
I don't play. (Professionally). But work on the technical side. I'm already booked through 2025. Offers for 2026 are starting. So. For some of us, we're going strong.
Another aspect of why it's so hard for young or unknown bands to get gigs is that bars and clubs now expect that your band already has a "following" that will bring in business. Bars used to hire bands to provide entertainment to their customers. Now they want the entertainment to provide the customers to their bar. It's kind of a catch-22. And they still don't want to pay you anything for the priviledge...
THAT IS SOOO TRUE! It's just the old "production" shake down, but more trailer parkie. You might be better off finding or renting a park setting, setting up, and putting up a small merch table, and an open guitar case!
💯. Absolutely spot on! And some venues ask the band to provide someone to sit at the door and collect presold tickets as well as sell at-the-door tickets. Imagine if bands stopped catering to this sort of treatment... I wonder what would happen as it could stop them from hiring live entertainment or cause them to pony up and market their business appropriately. 🤔
Jonathan is 100% right that it's moved to an online presence, for better or for worse. I purchased an older Sequoia to haul my band and gear around (little less sketchy looking than the murder van), but it's expensive to maintain. Especially living in a good sized city, no local venues want to pay because some band will do it cheaper. So we travel, some times clear across the state. I love gigging, and I feel like I can experience the "musician lifestyle" driving 8 hours round trip on a late night to make $500. But when I can make $100 sitting at home from people I met on Instagram who like and buy merch, or send tips through livestreams, it makes it much more appealing. The way I look at social media is like the after show. People like your content and stick around to talk to you, and that's how you make friends and fans. So many people consume social media and never produce anything of value, which is why so many are disillusioned with it (myself included).
Ran a bar, customers whined about $5 cover price (= to 2 beers), a low cost place. had some good bands. Scarlet Runner played there and drew 40 people. Everyone there loved it, I lost money big time. No one knew them, wouldn't come out to see a new band. Best bands for me to make money, local cheap bands.
I toured with a band in the early '80s and your point about lower overhead back in the day is spot on. 5 piece band, light man, sound man, and manager. We traveled in a pair 1/2 ton vans set up primarily for passengers (mine had a bed in the back) and a 1 ton cargo van. Most of the time lodging was provided by the venue. (We typically played 3-5 nights per venue.) By the time we paid for gas and vehicle repairs, made the payments on the light system and rental on the PA we often netted $50/week per man. These days all of those expenses would be higher, and yet the pay per night is still about the same. We were touring to promote our EP. This was also at a time when there was a healthy local music scene in our town, where we could play 6 nights a week and then play at the club down the street the next week. There were a good number of venues, all of which were hopping 6 nights a week. Once we were on that circuit, we could actually make a decent living.That scene no longer exists here. I'm in a popular band now, and we only gig one or two nights per month because only a handful of clubs still have live music, and if they do it's only one night a week.
I’m glad the guys in the back spoke up. I actually think this conversation warrants a hr long discussion with everyone on camera. Lots of opinions and I want to hear em!
Back in the day, I played in several bands in the CT club circuit between NYC and Boston; we'd travel across the small state to open for bands from both cities as they were passing through. Some of these bands went on to international success, unfortunately we (nor I) did not. Strippers, groupies, parties, punk, rock, metal,... Good times. Moved to another city in a different area, and auditioned for the top death metal band in the area, got the gig. We headlined the top clubs in the area, more metal, strippers, groupies, parties, and good times. We were in talks for a short European tour (Germany, Norway, Sweden) that unfortunately didn't materialize before the band imploded. Played my first paying gig at 14 years old, my last at 32. Even with all the drama, stupidity, and challenges, I'm happy for the experiences. I can't imagine what it's like trying to be a successful band today; few clubs, many other entertainment options; seems like music is no longer a big part or central to many people's lives like it was for many of us back in the day? My teenage son plays guitar for a hobby, he also plays keys, and I have a music store's inventory of equipment (including several organs, synths, full and half stacks, and a few PA systems...) he has no interest in being in bands... I dunno... Cheers!
I used to roadie for my wife’s band, 10 years or so. It was back in the late 80’s to mid 90’s right before the internet took off. Had social media been a bigger thing back then I’m sure this band would have gone somewhere but at the time it was all about creating a buzz with playing ALL the time and making the live shows speak for themselves. Many, many nights driving home and stopping at Taco Bell for late night double decker tacos… It wasn’t glorious living but it was fun.
On the flip side it might of made difference or made things more difficult. Few want to go out to see a band anymore because of technology ect., and the internet is oversaturated. Hey you guys had fun and probably have some good stories. At least least you did it instead of becoming 'too old' and regretting
I think a bif part of the equation is that the infrastructure for bands has been hollowed out the last couple of years and people are still working on an old model of what it “looks like to make it” . I think with overhead being so high it’s realty extremely hard to make a living a band on the road. With that being said there are a lot of us who make a full time living touring/ gigging as singer songwriters/ folk adjacent acts . I didn’t set out to be a solo acoustic act “folk singer” type but I did set out to make a sustainable career in music. I can travel with me and my wife in a small suv Playing house concerts, folk clubs, small venues and the like and make a decent living. And I am an absolute nobody. I have played big stages on tour that I got paid very little and I have made bank in peoples living rooms and in small listening rooms. None of it is glamorous but I get to make a living sharing music. People get caught up in “the dream” of what it looks like to be a musician, and don’t think super critically about how to make a long term multifaceted career in music. Slept in my car a lot so I can come home with real money. Good video guys.
I think Jonathon has it right. One has to use the tools available to connect with their audience. Nothing replaces playing live in front of people but picking the best places to play is the key.
A few weeks ago I went to see Boy Golden and The Sheepdogs. It was at a small, but sold-out venue. Excellent guitar work by both bands, especially The Sheepdogs' Allman-esque dual guitar harmonies. They had a nice merch table setup and we happily purchased $30 tour tees and some stickers. It felt good to throw some extra cash at these bands, they deserve it. You could tell they'd been on the road a while just by their performances. There are still some great bands that heavily tour, and it was good to see! (and worth every penny of $20.)
On December 2, I saw Chris Knight at a bar in Murfreesboro, Tn, I paid $27 and it was worth every penny. I stood right by the stage directly in front of him the whole show. If you care anything about Americana or Outlaw Country style music and you don’t know who Chris Knight is you owe it to yourself to look him up. Even if you don’t typically like that style of music he is definitely worth checking out. It’s really surprising that his first major label album from 1998 is the only one that had any actual chart success. He is still exactly the same writing and singing songs that make you feel like he has actually lived it. Some of his songs are so intense that if he had actually lived it he would either be in prison or dead. I’ve got tickets to see an up and coming band, 49 Winchester, at a small venue in Nashville in February. I paid $18 each for those tickets it’s general admission and all tickets were that price. It’s sold out now and reseller prices range from $36-80. The band has been around since 2014, but I had never heard of them until I heard one of their songs on SiriusXM channel 60 (Outlaw Country) in early November. I actually used the Shazam app to find out more about the band which was how I found out about the show. The song was called “Russell County Line” and it’s from their 4th album Fortune Favors the Bold that came out earlier this year. I downloaded the album and liked it enough that I bought the tickets a few days later. I think this album is going to be there breakthrough release. I’m eager to see what they are like live.
It’s a sacrifice many are not willing to make. City to city on fumes from the few t shirts you sold at the last show. Hoping to make enough that night to get to the next venue
There's money to be made in the music industry, making music is not where it is. And from my experience, playing bars in the '90s the band would make $300-$500 a night. Playing bars now, bands are still getting $300-$500 a night.
Except $3-500 now is only a fraction of the real money it was then in terms of purchasing power. Maybe you were taking that into account though. Either way it's not enough to live on. Probably for most musicians by far and in my experience, it costs to play. You never make an actual dime and have to subsidize your 'music career' by doing other things to pay the bills. The pay for doing something we love is not always money, right? Otherwise it wouldn't be worth the trouble for like 99% of musicians. I'm 65. If I could find interested people to play live with, good places to do it and had a chance to perform again I'd like to try again, knowing it'd be likely to fail. But there's nothing like it. You only live once.
If you're not the Foo Fighters, which is a sure thing money-wise, most bands are going to be struggling with their creative outlet and performing as primary income sources. Take Periphery for example, they're a pretty dang popular band, but they don't make much money from writing, releasing, and performing music. They all make money from their endorsements and business ventures, from music and otherwise. And even then, they're still outliers because not all musicians are lucky enough to have big time endorsements and signature models from Ibanez, Jackson, Paul Reed Smith, Peavey, etc. It basically appears now, for the most part, that music has to be a passion project, and you have to find a way to make money via teaching, working as a guitar store employee, or go to college to get a STEM degree while just doing music on the side, and so forth and so on.
Hey I love this channel so much that just to make things easier for everone, ill go ahead and volunteer to be the person to receive the PRS Silver Sky!! Thanks for everything you guys do!!
I think the order of progression for a musical or artist has changed over time. Playing live and touring used to be the first steps but now, it seems reserved for acts that already have a following online. Many might see it as putting the cart before the horse. Now it wouldn't be unusual to make a few music video before ever playing live, which would have never been the case back in the day. But the fact is, it's more cost-effective and reaches a much larger audience.
Stadtler and Waldorf here talking about kids these days lol . . . 40 years ago we used to drive hundreds of miles between tour stops, sleep on barroom floors and play in places where we had to clear the place out after 2 am . . . sometimes there was a hotel room but it wasn't much of a step up if you have to stuff 4 guys in there. Vans breaking down, bad weather, unruly crowds, hostile bar owners . . . but even at the bottom it was 400 or 500 bucks a night to split between the band members. If bands are playing for that now they ought to revolt. Set up their own venues, even temporary ones, and put on some local band showcases for a low cover. No reason a bar or a club ought to be able to have live music by professionals and pay fees that are half a century out of date, but they'll do it if you let them. In the '90s clubs around here even had bands paying the clubs to be able to play weekend gigs. It's exploitation and it's gross. If you're bringing people in who are buying drinks--and drinks don't cost $1.25 like they did in 1978--you should get paid. If the venues don't want to pay then book your own space, put on your own show and steal their crowds. Viva la revolution
I love bands that you can see in smaller venues, Bowery Ball Room, Webster Hall, etc. Generally these are the folks that have put in the time and effort and can be considered successful even though they aren’t filling stadiums.
We didn’t have cell phone bills because we didn’t have cell phones. But we did have long distance charges. And if you weren’t careful you could get bills over $1000 without even paying attention. And when we did finally get cell phones, we also got “roaming charges”
Interesting commentary …I had a friend who did that grind for several years. Back and forth between touring with a band and Nashville promotions ..teaching guitar…gone from home 300 days a year….he has since passed away…I don’t think he would have changed anything….
My son is in a couple of bands in college that have a pretty good following, but i am going to have him watch this! it should be required watching for every aspiring band!!! Thank you!
So many clubs near me that used to showcase up-start and the mid-tier bands are now closed. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems anyone trying to make it today has to travel a further geographic footprint to get their name out there if they aren’t using social media to its fullest extent. More travel means more money and many of the bands I know that “tour” make embarrassing low money at these stops. They can only afford to go out in short bursts because they have to work. It just feels like if you aren’t an old nostalgic rock band, you have no shot anymore of growing an audience through touring.
Venues are taking a bigger cut of things too. You go on a tour, especially as an opening band for a more established band, and you're getting nickel and dime by the venue. The venue is taking a merch cut, maybe charging you for 'promoters' who do everything from advertise in the local music papers to hang posters on phone poles. If you're signed, your record company might have a 360º deal with you, where you are expected to cut the label in for merch and ticket revenue as well. I am not saying that all these bands are innocent, there's a lot of artists that just pay zero attention to the business side of things until its too late - but it's hard to know what you don't know, until you get into the thick of it.
Good video. Jonathan hittin everyone with some TRUTH. It's cool to see the different points of view from the guys my age vs the younger generation behind the camera
Our local band Proxima Parada has been around San Luis Obispo since 2011 and one guy (influencer) liked one of their song and now they have blown up on Spotify. It is changing their lives as we speak. New deal and all the good stuff. You guys should check them out!
A lot of guys had one or two pedals, no huge pedalboards, the had a lot of 88 Watt Fender twin reverbs. They were common as dirt. A Strat or even a Fender Squire bullet when they came out in 82 because the new Fenders were just not held in high regard. I was jazzed when I got my first Gallien Krueger, a big step up. The gear was so much simpler, I didn't even have a compressor. Yeah I remember bouncing around in 20 degree weather in the dark of a cargo van with gear sliding all around just to play at CBGBs on a Sunday night.
Hey Casino Guitars... You guys just realistically summed up what ALL of us have experienced to some degree or another. THIS is why I watch you guy's! I'm retired from the "scene" and have experienced the "scene" you just described over and over til I said "NO MORE"... At age what do I have to show???? Well... I moved to the mountains of NC to get peace of mind, and to mature the nature of my slide playing.... At what point is it really about your craft or is it about paying dues and making the rent? You guy's tend to talk too much, but.... wow, this was a tear jerker... because this is the way it does happen for MANY. I would love nothing more than to roll doll the peidmont and visit y'all.
This is one of the most interesting videos you’ve ever done. And the key to music as it exists now and why it is the way it is. Acts basing themselves on Instagram and TikTok is one thing but it isn’t real. This is real.
In the early 70s I was in a band and we had a blast playing local, our 1st "Big" gig was the main stage at the fair we had to rent a PA and a van to haul all of our gear and at the end we each made 20$ , it was then I realized that there was no money in music. Years have passed and i'm now retired from a non music career and I have ONE friend at 70 who has never held a job, he has only worked as a musician his entire life,
Great video today-I passed by on Wednesday on my way from Martinsville, Va back to Jacksonville, Fl. Didn’t time it well and passed by 45 minutes before you opened. Hope to get by again soon. Be well guys! Happy new year!
Back in the day when I was singing in a country band. I had what I affectionately called a hillbilly hotel. Which was a trailer with a prison style bed that folded down and a 3x3 shower with a tanks I had robbed out of an old rv. Was on the tristate circuit for a couple of years doing that. Yeah the time of my life and the worst possible conditions. Now they play a casino get comped a room.
I should have gone to The Fillmore West or Winterland earlier but my first concert was LZ for Houses at KEZAR when i was 16 in '74. The ticket price was i believe $12.00. Alot. I almost didn't go but equated the price as around the list price for a two record set. it was worth it ;) Short time later, like $6.00 at Winterland for 3 good bands. (CDB, LS and MTB is a fave memory). Then the gas crisis hit,,,,three bands became two with a price increase to $8.00 (Al DiMeola and Weather Report, or Leslie West and Elvin Bishop. Pretty great). My point is, I saw VH for 1984 (Cow Palace). Heaps of shows by then. Read an interview with Eddie where he said they didn't make any money because they were hauling around their own sound and lights,,,,really ? I don't know how bands survive today,,,,fuel costs have levelled off some but still pricey. CD sales hopefully help. Thank goodness bands can gig now. Pretty sucky couple of years there.
The whole working several jobs thing, right now it feels like places get real jealous about people having another job, lotta scheduling bullshit to make you choose which job you're "really" working. Just scheduling pettiness all around.
Man- I'm 53- when we were younger and gigging, we toured in an old 1982 Ford Station wagon. We played 18 shows across the southeastern US over a 3 month period- living out of that station wagon basically. Sometimes, if we knew the club owner- we would ask to park in the parking lot because we always got messed with if we went to Walmart- and if we just went and found an alley, we were scared we'd get robbed. We did it two years in a row and both times ended up stranded in Orlando Florida, the last stop, with no money and no way to get home. The first year the drummer's wife came got us- the second year we were stuck living on the beach for about 2 weeks- until I broke down and pawned my guitar to get home. That was just par for the course though- every band went through this. In fact, I'd say we did better than a lot of them. We tried to help one another when we could- like 2-3 bands would get together to rent a room- then we'd sneak the other ten guys in via the fire escape. I wouldn't trade back even one second of it though- I loved it. Well- maybe a couple nights when it was really hot down in Orlando- sleeping in that car was rough. And some nights we would get run off by the cops just over and over until we just hit the road for the next town. They obviously didn't want us there. We made 50 bucks a show- if we were lucky. That's after paying everyone out and splitting it up. You have to do it because you love it- not to make money. You can make way more money staying home and punching a clock.
I remember riding to a gig with all of our gear in the back of a stripped out work van, sitting on the floor... Sharing a pack of smokes and sweating in the Texas summer heat. "The good life" 😂😂😂
I’ve done all the things you were talking about. Living in a van, sleeping on floors, getting paid no money. It was exhausting and often terrifying…but a big part of me really wants to do it all over again!! Haha.
I take a pricey Magnatone to dead end gigs all the time. It makes the shitty gigs enjoyable having fun playing through gear that I love to play in my free time. I turned down a gig for new years eve for tomorrow because the venue wasn't willing to pay me what I feel I'm worth for such a dangerous holiday to be out. By the time all the effort put in to complete the gig, tear down and start the drive home gotta contend with dui checkpoints and all kinds of added bullshit. Not worth playing out sometimes
I don't know about touring in the USA but, in Canada in my experience, sometimes you pay to play and other times you get paid very well... it seemed to depend on the town or city the show was being played in. I played around 300 shows in 2.5 years and some were huge venues (arena, festivals) and some only had the staff and 5 people in a bar as the audience. It was weird but at the end of the day we always played our best regardless of the size of the crowd... it was a great experience but definitely not what the dreamers think it's like. I personally got tired, quickly, of always eating at restaurants and staying in hotels; none of us were into partying either as we left the venue, got some sleep and up early the next morning to drive to the next venue. I do think bands need to tour at least once as it helps the overall quality of the musicianship and provides topics for songwriting.
I played some larger venues and never had to split merchandise profits with the venue. The only time I ever see that is when the venue provides staff for the bands to sell their merch. Most of the bands profit was from merch sales
Back in the 90s I was a traveling stand up comedian. In the clubs it seemed so glamorous and cool, especially when you killed, and you’re signing autographs and getting drinks bought for you. Then, after the show, you either slept in a crappy hotel or your car, then drive 600 miles to the next gig. I can’t imagine that lifestyle with a whole band. You’d definitely need to make sure the folks in the band were people you really care about, or it would be tough.
I think a part of it is back in the day being on tour was the one of the biggest things about being in a band. It was part of the adventure and showed a degree of success; you had enough gigs to tour. Today young kids aspire to going viral on social media and so young bands perhaps aren’t that bothered about touring. If they don’t see touring as something to aim towards then they’re not likely to do everything to make ends meet: sleeping in the van, sharing food etc.
So musicians should be forced to sleep on the floor, starve, beg for help, and basically be treated like crap or they are getting soft? I call BS on that concept. It was always wrong to treat people like this and it still is.
MY buddy bought a used utility company van for $500, with a million miles on it, back in the 70's. He toured the midwest, and he was happy when they got a $30 room in a crappy hotel. They were decent, but didn't make it. Once he asked me to go to gig and cheer for his band, so the club would sign them to return. They were decent warmup back, the main band, who was unknown at the time, I thought this is now a kick ass band. That band was Cheap Trick when they were starting out. My buddy would tour for maybe 3 months until they ran out of money, and came back. The wedding band he was in made tons of money, but he really hated playing songs like the hokey pokey over and over again. Ironically he opened for several "to become famous" bands, but he never made it.
“The shift from blue collar to white collar” makes good sense to me. These kids are playing on quality gear I only dreamed of. Very few in my area ever had the chance to do a demo. At the end of the day you still have to play a lot of live gigs to make things happen.
Great video. I remember doing this many MANY years ago, and it was a struggle. I can only imagine what it’d be like now. So much has changed. I love most all of your guys videos. Great channel! Liked, subscribed, and one of the few I hit the bell for. HA! Keep it up, guys!
Great points, but have you seen what some of these bands are charging for tickets these days?? I'm talking about arena bands mostly.. and some of it can be blamed by Ticketmaster but hell you can't tell me touring doesn't make money at 300 bucks to sit in nosebleeds
Saw them at the Ritz NYC July 1990 at the apogee of their fame. London Choirboys opened. In the sidestreet behind the venue, there was a line of women making their way onto tour busses BEFORE the show. Damn thing started two hours late. Was Spike lonely? Medoubtsit.
As a teenager in the 70s I went to a lot of cheap local concerts because there weren’t a lot of equal entertainment options available for cheap. Lots of hunting, fishing and camping of course but most girls weren’t interested in those things. Fast forward to today and young people aren’t inclined to go see unknown bands when they can watch the artists they love and it’s already paid for. Sure, bands (people in general) are softer but mostly it’s just a radically different consumption environment, and even those bands willing and eager to sleep in the van and eat cheap starvation diets aren’t going to make it unless they are savvy about today’s market. You aren’t going to be discovered at a dive bar; if it happens it’ll be on TH-cam or Rumble or TikTok . . . And then you still have to understand how to monetize that publicity with merch, tours and records/streaming.
I make steady money during tourist season playing classic rock on an acoustic, dressed like a Pirate with some comedy interaction... Lots of talent out there; most far better than me. I’m a campfire bozo... lol Call it a Sellout or paying bills or survival... but a gimmick is a modern necessity for many of us. Like carneys or gypsy variety. Point is, we get to play and getting paid for it is a Blessing beyond measure. Humble and true to reality is how ya roll, gang. Love this show guys! Cheers!
During an interview with Keith Richards, he revealed that the Stones made a real profit during the second half of most tours due to the excessive production costs. At one point, they had three complete stage setups leapfrogging around the globe. Think about that for a minute. I can't even imagine the logistics. Absolutely mind boggling.
Touring is not what it is about in the post COVID reset. It's all about the Cottage Industry Product that Home Studios are enabled to produce and distribute. I'm working on making a high quality product to sell without having to leave my home studio.
I don't think the going rate for a unsigned band, has kept up with the same premium signed bands make. One thing that hasn't changed is that you have to do it for the love of the music, and your band mates...or you're done already. I have 2 accounts... gave you 2 likes, 2 bells, and, 2 subs. I never win sh!t....CHANGE MY LUCK. I lost 5 guitars, and 3 amps, in a house fire...12 days into 2022. I sure could use that Silver Sky. Rock on, and keep up the format.
Back in the 1970's - 2000 bands made decent money playing live. We would get the door late 1970's and it was $1,000-$1,200 ( $4,700 in 2023 money ) at a decent bar 200-250 cap. People went out to see bands and places were packed and people drank. In the 80's there were huge clubs in NJ that held 1,200-2,000 people. Hammerjacks in Baltimore one of my favorite clubs held 3,700 people. That is a lot of big hair.
Todays music industry is more like the boxing industry in the 70s, everyone has their hand in the till, the two groups that matter, the band and the fans are the ones getting ripped off
I see some people complaining that Clubs, bars etc. today want your band to have a following and bring in customers. I have been playing in bands for more than 50 years and I can tell you that this is not a new phenomena. It's always been that way. Places book your band because you bring in customers. I don't know any place that I play where the owners/managers has entertainment because they like music. It's a business and if you can't bring in a following that can at least cover what your band expects to be paid, you won't be back and you may get nothing. In the late 70's early 80's I toured with two different bands who were linked to an agency that booked places across the US where up and coming bands with a good track record in their local area could go out for weeks (or months) and play several places a week. Your band was responsible to live on the small bit of money you were making on the road usually sleeping in the vans or in better cases a motel (not a hotel) room at the cheapest dump available. All the band often crammed into one room on most nights sleeping on the floor. You hoped that the money the band made would cover enough gas money to get to the next nights gig 300 miles away (gas, tires, trailer rentals, food etc.). We usually got a per diem (daily) pay of $5-10. That was your food money for the whole day. It was enough to cover a loaf of bread and assorted cold cuts or you and another band member split a pizza. If you were a smoker when the "tour" started you generally became a non-smoker by the end of the first week because you couldn't spend your food money on cigarettes'. Eating became much more important than cigarettes. Luxury's were scarce and usually were consisted of new guitar strings and drum sticks. I'm not complaining though because I have great memories of my times on the road playing 4-5 times a week and seeing a lot of the US from Bismarck, ND to Dallas TX, to Omaha NB and back home to the north east where I lived but that life isn't for most bedroom/basement players with teen dreams of rock N roll stardom. It's tough and you sacrifice friends, girlfriends, family life and anything resembling a normal income. I doubt it's any different today. If you have the passion by all means do it. Just be realistic.
I guess if you're doing something that you love like playing music and just about surviving, then even the worst day fishing is better than the best day working!
This is very interesting topic. I knew some local Fayetteville bands that are still going from mid 2000s. It seems the struggle stayed the same/similar but the medium just shifted from live to online.
I’m 63 now. When I was 18 I went to Nashville with my band to “make it”. We went back home with our tail between our legs with nothing but a dose of reality. I joined the Army shortly afterward and put my dreams on hold so I could take care of my wife and son. Now I’m retired from the Army and playing music and still in awe at how anyone can make it. We make $500-700 a gig for a 5 piece band. That’s not enough to live on. We can be selective but doing it for a living you can’t.
@ejj archer absolutely. I love that my youngest daughter wanted to play drums and sing. I was more than happy to pay for lessons for both, something I never had. I think all of the you tube content is great too for musicians to make extra money. I also play on a Worship Team but most of us are volunteers except for the Worship Leader. There are a lot of different ways to make money playing music and I wasn’t trying to imply differently. it’s a great time to be a musician in my opinion. I guess when I was younger I was from a small town in Georgia and just didn’t have a lot of options with music. Now I’m happy with my decision to join the Army and get to fly Apache helicopters for almost 30 years. I guess everything happens for a reason. I can enjoy playing guitar with my band and don’t have to worry about the financial aspect of it. I also agree with you to never give up on your dreams, sometimes they just take a little longer.
My younger brother is 35 at the moment & for the last 3 years he's been playing a gig or 2 on occasion every weekend either at a ski lodge, restaurant, bar, , private party or a wedding. He has a full time job working with extremely handicapped individuals (changes at least 50 diapers a day on adults), teaches part time at the local School of Rock & he's really happy to be a working musician. It's not the dream rockstar show but he's playing everyday & earning money because of it.
Your brother's a f$$$ing saint. I'm not kidding.
He's awesome but don't tell him I said that. I don't want it to go to his head 🤣
Jealous much?
@@michaelpacinus242 Not at all, he's doing REALLY well since he lost his full time job as a banker in 2019! He works so hard & he's earning far less money than he was as a banker now, but is feeling REALLY fulfilled with the work he's doing, if anything I'm really proud of him!
I'm still in the "my bedroom" scene with my soloist career.
I think part of the change is that venues now take a cut of merchandise sales. Back in the day merch sales were pure profit and where a band actually made their money.
That's wild to me that that's a thing
It’s been happening since at least the 90’s, but now even smaller theaters and clubs are doing it. It’s because of LiveNation/Ticketmaster basically “owning” all of the significant venues.
Venues take a cut of just about everything. After all, the band is setting up shop for their sales at venue facilities.
@@DavidHBurkartnot the point and you know it. it's about the corporate interests taking everything they can from everyplace and everyone they can... they justify it as "growth" to the shareholders.
“Famous” bands, sure. The music industry is dead because it is less important. People listen to podcasts and are activists on Twitter. That’s why… no one has a need for music anymore. The only popular music is black because it’s still cool to be black… and you know the white girls love to squirt.
No one wants to admit it I guess. But music. Buying it. Playing it. Performing it. Producing it. It’s over. It’s been over for a while. People just refuse to admit it. The music business is like the Arcade business; once Xbox and the like came along, it was over. Same for music. Once people began to steal it for free via the net-- it was over. And it will never recover.
Well said 💭
Turns out Lars was right all along. It was obvious at the time, but no one wanted to hear it.
I don't play. (Professionally).
But work on the technical side. I'm already booked through 2025. Offers for 2026 are starting. So. For some of us, we're going strong.
Another aspect of why it's so hard for young or unknown bands to get gigs is that bars and clubs now expect that your band already has a "following" that will bring in business. Bars used to hire bands to provide entertainment to their customers. Now they want the entertainment to provide the customers to their bar. It's kind of a catch-22. And they still don't want to pay you anything for the priviledge...
Damn
THAT IS SOOO TRUE! It's just the old "production" shake down, but more trailer parkie.
You might be better off finding or renting a park setting, setting up, and putting up a small merch table, and an open guitar case!
I totally agree! It’s unfortunate, but absolutely true.
💯. Absolutely spot on! And some venues ask the band to provide someone to sit at the door and collect presold tickets as well as sell at-the-door tickets. Imagine if bands stopped catering to this sort of treatment... I wonder what would happen as it could stop them from hiring live entertainment or cause them to pony up and market their business appropriately. 🤔
I wouldn't mind putting my own man on the door. That way I know everything's on the up and up.
Jonathan is 100% right that it's moved to an online presence, for better or for worse. I purchased an older Sequoia to haul my band and gear around (little less sketchy looking than the murder van), but it's expensive to maintain. Especially living in a good sized city, no local venues want to pay because some band will do it cheaper. So we travel, some times clear across the state. I love gigging, and I feel like I can experience the "musician lifestyle" driving 8 hours round trip on a late night to make $500.
But when I can make $100 sitting at home from people I met on Instagram who like and buy merch, or send tips through livestreams, it makes it much more appealing. The way I look at social media is like the after show. People like your content and stick around to talk to you, and that's how you make friends and fans. So many people consume social media and never produce anything of value, which is why so many are disillusioned with it (myself included).
It's for worse
My enjoyment of money definitely got in the way of my music career.
Also the lack of talent and skill.
Good luck findinhg a full lineup of talented musicians who prioritizes your band over job, family and friends.
If you can play music and stay fed, not freeze to death, and keep yourself buzzed and laid, you’ve made it.
Funny how they claim warming is super dangerous but the freezing to death is actually real.
Totally agree!!!
Ran a bar, customers whined about $5 cover price (= to 2 beers), a low cost place. had some good bands. Scarlet Runner played there and drew 40 people. Everyone there loved it, I lost money big time. No one knew them, wouldn't come out to see a new band. Best bands for me to make money, local cheap bands.
These guys are the most interesting thing on TH-cam. I completely enjoy these posts.. well done
I toured with a band in the early '80s and your point about lower overhead back in the day is spot on. 5 piece band, light man, sound man, and manager. We traveled in a pair 1/2 ton vans set up primarily for passengers (mine had a bed in the back) and a 1 ton cargo van. Most of the time lodging was provided by the venue. (We typically played 3-5 nights per venue.) By the time we paid for gas and vehicle repairs, made the payments on the light system and rental on the PA we often netted $50/week per man. These days all of those expenses would be higher, and yet the pay per night is still about the same. We were touring to promote our EP. This was also at a time when there was a healthy local music scene in our town, where we could play 6 nights a week and then play at the club down the street the next week. There were a good number of venues, all of which were hopping 6 nights a week. Once we were on that circuit, we could actually make a decent living.That scene no longer exists here. I'm in a popular band now, and we only gig one or two nights per month because only a handful of clubs still have live music, and if they do it's only one night a week.
We owned our own PA and lighting. That PA made me a ton of money back in the 70's and 80's. Clubs were packed
I’m glad the guys in the back spoke up. I actually think this conversation warrants a hr long discussion with everyone on camera. Lots of opinions and I want to hear em!
I’m playing my local Warrior Healing Center, a vet center here in town. It’s a priceless gift for me to play for my fellow veterans. It’s no joke.
Back in the day, I played in several bands in the CT club circuit between NYC and Boston; we'd travel across the small state to open for bands from both cities as they were passing through. Some of these bands went on to international success, unfortunately we (nor I) did not. Strippers, groupies, parties, punk, rock, metal,... Good times.
Moved to another city in a different area, and auditioned for the top death metal band in the area, got the gig. We headlined the top clubs in the area, more metal, strippers, groupies, parties, and good times. We were in talks for a short European tour (Germany, Norway, Sweden) that unfortunately didn't materialize before the band imploded.
Played my first paying gig at 14 years old, my last at 32. Even with all the drama, stupidity, and challenges, I'm happy for the experiences.
I can't imagine what it's like trying to be a successful band today; few clubs, many other entertainment options; seems like music is no longer a big part or central to many people's lives like it was for many of us back in the day? My teenage son plays guitar for a hobby, he also plays keys, and I have a music store's inventory of equipment (including several organs, synths, full and half stacks, and a few PA systems...) he has no interest in being in bands... I dunno...
Cheers!
More like 30-40 years ago?
I get it.
I don’t think of that being so long ago, until I do the math.
I used to roadie for my wife’s band, 10 years or so. It was back in the late 80’s to mid 90’s right before the internet took off. Had social media been a bigger thing back then I’m sure this band would have gone somewhere but at the time it was all about creating a buzz with playing ALL the time and making the live shows speak for themselves. Many, many nights driving home and stopping at Taco Bell for late night double decker tacos… It wasn’t glorious living but it was fun.
ya - that stuff is fun UNTIL you get to be about 40 years old. then it starts to feel more like a low paying job on the graveyard shift.
On the flip side it might of made difference or made things more difficult. Few want to go out to see a band anymore because of technology ect., and the internet is oversaturated. Hey you guys had fun and probably have some good stories. At least least you did it instead of becoming 'too old' and regretting
@@supernothing77 well, I did it for a while - but I got old anyway. go figure!
I think a bif part of the equation is that the infrastructure for bands has been hollowed out the last couple of years and people are still working on an old model of what it “looks like to make it” . I think with overhead being so high it’s realty extremely hard to make a living a band on the road. With that being said there are a lot of us who make a full time living touring/ gigging as singer songwriters/ folk adjacent acts . I didn’t set out to be a solo acoustic act “folk singer” type but I did set out to make a sustainable career in music. I can travel with me and my wife in a small suv
Playing house concerts, folk clubs, small venues and the like and make a decent living. And I am an absolute nobody. I have played big stages on tour that I got paid very little and I have made bank in peoples living rooms and in small listening rooms. None of it is glamorous but I get to make a living sharing music. People get caught up in “the dream” of what it looks like to be a musician, and don’t think super critically about how to make a long term multifaceted career in music. Slept in my car a lot so I can come home with real money. Good video guys.
I think Jonathon has it right. One has to use the tools available to connect with their audience. Nothing replaces playing live in front of people but picking the best places to play is the key.
A few weeks ago I went to see Boy Golden and The Sheepdogs. It was at a small, but sold-out venue.
Excellent guitar work by both bands, especially The Sheepdogs' Allman-esque dual guitar harmonies. They had a nice merch table setup and we happily purchased $30 tour tees and some stickers. It felt good to throw some extra cash at these bands, they deserve it. You could tell they'd been on the road a while just by their performances.
There are still some great bands that heavily tour, and it was good to see! (and worth every penny of $20.)
On December 2, I saw Chris Knight at a bar in Murfreesboro, Tn, I paid $27 and it was worth every penny. I stood right by the stage directly in front of him the whole show. If you care anything about Americana or Outlaw Country style music and you don’t know who Chris Knight is you owe it to yourself to look him up. Even if you don’t typically like that style of music he is definitely worth checking out. It’s really surprising that his first major label album from 1998 is the only one that had any actual chart success. He is still exactly the same writing and singing songs that make you feel like he has actually lived it. Some of his songs are so intense that if he had actually lived it he would either be in prison or dead.
I’ve got tickets to see an up and coming band, 49 Winchester, at a small venue in Nashville in February. I paid $18 each for those tickets it’s general admission and all tickets were that price. It’s sold out now and reseller prices range from $36-80. The band has been around since 2014, but I had never heard of them until I heard one of their songs on SiriusXM channel 60 (Outlaw Country) in early November. I actually used the Shazam app to find out more about the band which was how I found out about the show. The song was called “Russell County Line” and it’s from their 4th album Fortune Favors the Bold that came out earlier this year. I downloaded the album and liked it enough that I bought the tickets a few days later. I think this album is going to be there breakthrough release. I’m eager to see what they are like live.
It’s a sacrifice many are not willing to make. City to city on fumes from the few t shirts you sold at the last show. Hoping to make enough that night to get to the next venue
There's money to be made in the music industry, making music is not where it is. And from my experience, playing bars in the '90s the band would make $300-$500 a night. Playing bars now, bands are still getting $300-$500 a night.
Except $3-500 now is only a fraction of the real money it was then in terms of purchasing power. Maybe you were taking that into account though. Either way it's not enough to live on. Probably for most musicians by far and in my experience, it costs to play. You never make an actual dime and have to subsidize your 'music career' by doing other things to pay the bills. The pay for doing something we love is not always money, right? Otherwise it wouldn't be worth the trouble for like 99% of musicians. I'm 65. If I could find interested people to play live with, good places to do it and had a chance to perform again I'd like to try again, knowing it'd be likely to fail. But there's nothing like it. You only live once.
If you're not the Foo Fighters, which is a sure thing money-wise, most bands are going to be struggling with their creative outlet and performing as primary income sources. Take Periphery for example, they're a pretty dang popular band, but they don't make much money from writing, releasing, and performing music. They all make money from their endorsements and business ventures, from music and otherwise. And even then, they're still outliers because not all musicians are lucky enough to have big time endorsements and signature models from Ibanez, Jackson, Paul Reed Smith, Peavey, etc. It basically appears now, for the most part, that music has to be a passion project, and you have to find a way to make money via teaching, working as a guitar store employee, or go to college to get a STEM degree while just doing music on the side, and so forth and so on.
Hey I love this channel so much that just to make things easier for everone, ill go ahead and volunteer to be the person to receive the PRS Silver Sky!! Thanks for everything you guys do!!
You guys should make more videos about things people were talking about six years ago
I think the order of progression for a musical or artist has changed over time. Playing live and touring used to be the first steps but now, it seems reserved for acts that already have a following online. Many might see it as putting the cart before the horse. Now it wouldn't be unusual to make a few music video before ever playing live, which would have never been the case back in the day. But the fact is, it's more cost-effective and reaches a much larger audience.
Stadtler and Waldorf here talking about kids these days lol . . . 40 years ago we used to drive hundreds of miles between tour stops, sleep on barroom floors and play in places where we had to clear the place out after 2 am . . . sometimes there was a hotel room but it wasn't much of a step up if you have to stuff 4 guys in there. Vans breaking down, bad weather, unruly crowds, hostile bar owners . . . but even at the bottom it was 400 or 500 bucks a night to split between the band members. If bands are playing for that now they ought to revolt. Set up their own venues, even temporary ones, and put on some local band showcases for a low cover. No reason a bar or a club ought to be able to have live music by professionals and pay fees that are half a century out of date, but they'll do it if you let them. In the '90s clubs around here even had bands paying the clubs to be able to play weekend gigs. It's exploitation and it's gross. If you're bringing people in who are buying drinks--and drinks don't cost $1.25 like they did in 1978--you should get paid. If the venues don't want to pay then book your own space, put on your own show and steal their crowds. Viva la revolution
I love bands that you can see in smaller venues, Bowery Ball Room, Webster Hall, etc. Generally these are the folks that have put in the time and effort and can be considered successful even though they aren’t filling stadiums.
We didn’t have cell phone bills because we didn’t have cell phones. But we did have long distance charges. And if you weren’t careful you could get bills over $1000 without even paying attention.
And when we did finally get cell phones, we also got “roaming charges”
Interesting commentary …I had a friend who did that grind for several years. Back and forth between touring with a band and Nashville promotions ..teaching guitar…gone from home 300 days a year….he has since passed away…I don’t think he would have changed anything….
My son is in a couple of bands in college that have a pretty good following, but i am going to have him watch this! it should be required watching for every aspiring band!!! Thank you!
So many clubs near me that used to showcase up-start and the mid-tier bands are now closed. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems anyone trying to make it today has to travel a further geographic footprint to get their name out there if they aren’t using social media to its fullest extent. More travel means more money and many of the bands I know that “tour” make embarrassing low money at these stops. They can only afford to go out in short bursts because they have to work. It just feels like if you aren’t an old nostalgic rock band, you have no shot anymore of growing an audience through touring.
I live in Philly and all the clubs seem to be corporate now. It’s a big market too. This is a problem.
...at least us non-essentials are safe!
Venues are taking a bigger cut of things too. You go on a tour, especially as an opening band for a more established band, and you're getting nickel and dime by the venue. The venue is taking a merch cut, maybe charging you for 'promoters' who do everything from advertise in the local music papers to hang posters on phone poles. If you're signed, your record company might have a 360º deal with you, where you are expected to cut the label in for merch and ticket revenue as well. I am not saying that all these bands are innocent, there's a lot of artists that just pay zero attention to the business side of things until its too late - but it's hard to know what you don't know, until you get into the thick of it.
Oooof I want a prs and a strat. The silver sky would meet both those criteria! Gimme gimme! :D
Good video. Jonathan hittin everyone with some TRUTH. It's cool to see the different points of view from the guys my age vs the younger generation behind the camera
Our local band Proxima Parada has been around San Luis Obispo since 2011 and one guy (influencer) liked one of their song and now they have blown up on Spotify. It is changing their lives as we speak. New deal and all the good stuff. You guys should check them out!
I’ve been waiting almost a year for my new silver skies to send it on over and let’s get the party started!
Great channel gents. Would love to see you have a drink from the whisky bottle behind you. Toast the new year. Cheers.
This was quite an interesting video.
I told my son the other day I'd like to have a Silver Sky. Keep that in mind. :)
A lot of guys had one or two pedals, no huge pedalboards, the had a lot of 88 Watt Fender twin reverbs. They were common as dirt. A Strat or even a Fender Squire bullet when they came out in 82 because the new Fenders were just not held in high regard. I was jazzed when I got my first Gallien Krueger, a big step up. The gear was so much simpler, I didn't even have a compressor. Yeah I remember bouncing around in 20 degree weather in the dark of a cargo van with gear sliding all around just to play at CBGBs on a Sunday night.
Our trailer hitch broke between where you pay and the entrance to the Holland tunnel, big fun and u er profitable lol😂
Oh, Jeez...
My car works perfectly and the holland tunnel F’ing sucks.
Hey Casino Guitars... You guys just realistically summed up what ALL of us have experienced to some degree or another. THIS is why I watch you guy's! I'm retired from the "scene" and have experienced the "scene" you just described over and over til I said "NO MORE"... At age what do I have to show???? Well... I moved to the mountains of NC to get peace of mind, and to mature the nature of my slide playing.... At what point is it really about your craft or is it about paying dues and making the rent? You guy's tend to talk too much, but.... wow, this was a tear jerker... because this is the way it does happen for MANY.
I would love nothing more than to roll doll the peidmont and visit y'all.
This is one of the most interesting videos you’ve ever done. And the key to music as it exists now and why it is the way it is.
Acts basing themselves on Instagram and TikTok is one thing but it isn’t real. This is real.
In the early 70s I was in a band and we had a blast playing local, our 1st "Big" gig was the main stage at the fair we had to rent a PA and a van to haul all of our gear and at the end we each made 20$ , it was then I realized that there was no money in music.
Years have passed and i'm now retired from a non music career and I have ONE friend at 70 who has never held a job, he has only worked as a musician his entire life,
I'm from the same era - similar story. I'll bet your friend has ZERO financial security these days...
@@anthonypanneton923he married a successful woman...
Finally hit 50k, congratulations!🍾
Great video today-I passed by on Wednesday on my way from Martinsville, Va back to Jacksonville, Fl. Didn’t time it well and passed by 45 minutes before you opened. Hope to get by again soon. Be well guys! Happy new year!
Back in the day when I was singing in a country band. I had what I affectionately called a hillbilly hotel. Which was a trailer with a prison style bed that folded down and a 3x3 shower with a tanks I had robbed out of an old rv. Was on the tristate circuit for a couple of years doing that. Yeah the time of my life and the worst possible conditions. Now they play a casino get comped a room.
I should have gone to The Fillmore West or Winterland earlier but my first concert was LZ for Houses at KEZAR when i was 16 in '74.
The ticket price was i believe $12.00. Alot. I almost didn't go but equated the price as around the list price for a two record set.
it was worth it ;)
Short time later, like $6.00 at Winterland for 3 good bands. (CDB, LS and MTB is a fave memory).
Then the gas crisis hit,,,,three bands became two with a price increase to $8.00 (Al DiMeola and Weather Report, or Leslie West and Elvin Bishop. Pretty great).
My point is, I saw VH for 1984 (Cow Palace). Heaps of shows by then.
Read an interview with Eddie where he said they didn't make any money because they were hauling around their own sound and lights,,,,really ?
I don't know how bands survive today,,,,fuel costs have levelled off some but still pricey. CD sales hopefully help. Thank goodness bands can gig now. Pretty sucky couple of years there.
The whole working several jobs thing, right now it feels like places get real jealous about people having another job, lotta scheduling bullshit to make you choose which job you're "really" working. Just scheduling pettiness all around.
I don’t care if I win the guitar. I’ll watch and like your videos anyway. I love you two cats!! ✌🏻
As always, observations are on point, gentlemen! Keeps me coming back for more!
I love discussions like this. Keep ‘em coming!
Man- I'm 53- when we were younger and gigging, we toured in an old 1982 Ford Station wagon. We played 18 shows across the southeastern US over a 3 month period- living out of that station wagon basically. Sometimes, if we knew the club owner- we would ask to park in the parking lot because we always got messed with if we went to Walmart- and if we just went and found an alley, we were scared we'd get robbed. We did it two years in a row and both times ended up stranded in Orlando Florida, the last stop, with no money and no way to get home. The first year the drummer's wife came got us- the second year we were stuck living on the beach for about 2 weeks- until I broke down and pawned my guitar to get home. That was just par for the course though- every band went through this. In fact, I'd say we did better than a lot of them. We tried to help one another when we could- like 2-3 bands would get together to rent a room- then we'd sneak the other ten guys in via the fire escape. I wouldn't trade back even one second of it though- I loved it. Well- maybe a couple nights when it was really hot down in Orlando- sleeping in that car was rough. And some nights we would get run off by the cops just over and over until we just hit the road for the next town. They obviously didn't want us there. We made 50 bucks a show- if we were lucky. That's after paying everyone out and splitting it up. You have to do it because you love it- not to make money. You can make way more money staying home and punching a clock.
Always great videos... keeping fingers crossed on the give-away. ;) Cheers.
Iron Smoke! I see the bottle off the left! Made right in my town, Fairport, NY. The Iron Smoke Distillery is a great music venue too!
We used to call it freedom of the road. Adventure. I roadied for Priest and Maiden in 1981. Fun for the young. Dirty blue jeans and boots. Loved it.
Yep, the social media aspect is huge now. It's almost a must at this point.
I remember riding to a gig with all of our gear in the back of a stripped out work van, sitting on the floor... Sharing a pack of smokes and sweating in the Texas summer heat.
"The good life" 😂😂😂
You guys are great. Greetings from Bethania, NC. Home of the original Muddy Creek venue which unfortunately demised during the pandemic.
I’ve done all the things you were talking about. Living in a van, sleeping on floors, getting paid no money. It was exhausting and often terrifying…but a big part of me really wants to do it all over again!! Haha.
I take a pricey Magnatone to dead end gigs all the time. It makes the shitty gigs enjoyable having fun playing through gear that I love to play in my free time. I turned down a gig for new years eve for tomorrow because the venue wasn't willing to pay me what I feel I'm worth for such a dangerous holiday to be out. By the time all the effort put in to complete the gig, tear down and start the drive home gotta contend with dui checkpoints and all kinds of added bullshit. Not worth playing out sometimes
I don't know about touring in the USA but, in Canada in my experience, sometimes you pay to play and other times you get paid very well... it seemed to depend on the town or city the show was being played in. I played around 300 shows in 2.5 years and some were huge venues (arena, festivals) and some only had the staff and 5 people in a bar as the audience. It was weird but at the end of the day we always played our best regardless of the size of the crowd... it was a great experience but definitely not what the dreamers think it's like. I personally got tired, quickly, of always eating at restaurants and staying in hotels; none of us were into partying either as we left the venue, got some sleep and up early the next morning to drive to the next venue. I do think bands need to tour at least once as it helps the overall quality of the musicianship and provides topics for songwriting.
I really did go. Great show Jonathan. Amazing guitar playing. The vinyl is getting some good revolutions too. Nice Album!
I played some larger venues and never had to split merchandise profits with the venue. The only time I ever see that is when the venue provides staff for the bands to sell their merch. Most of the bands profit was from merch sales
I lose a little on every show but I make it up in volume! Cheers Casino!!
Back in the 90s I was a traveling stand up comedian. In the clubs it seemed so glamorous and cool, especially when you killed, and you’re signing autographs and getting drinks bought for you. Then, after the show, you either slept in a crappy hotel or your car, then drive 600 miles to the next gig.
I can’t imagine that lifestyle with a whole band. You’d definitely need to make sure the folks in the band were people you really care about, or it would be tough.
I think a part of it is back in the day being on tour was the one of the biggest things about being in a band. It was part of the adventure and showed a degree of success; you had enough gigs to tour. Today young kids aspire to going viral on social media and so young bands perhaps aren’t that bothered about touring. If they don’t see touring as something to aim towards then they’re not likely to do everything to make ends meet: sleeping in the van, sharing food etc.
I really liked the mystery guy off stage voice over! You should make it part of your video strategy!
So musicians should be forced to sleep on the floor, starve, beg for help, and basically be treated like crap or they are getting soft? I call BS on that concept. It was always wrong to treat people like this and it still is.
MY buddy bought a used utility company van for $500, with a million miles on it, back in the 70's. He toured the midwest, and he was happy when they got a $30 room in a crappy hotel. They were decent, but didn't make it. Once he asked me to go to gig and cheer for his band, so the club would sign them to return. They were decent warmup back, the main band, who was unknown at the time, I thought this is now a kick ass band. That band was Cheap Trick when they were starting out. My buddy would tour for maybe 3 months until they ran out of money, and came back. The wedding band he was in made tons of money, but he really hated playing songs like the hokey pokey over and over again. Ironically he opened for several "to become famous" bands, but he never made it.
“The shift from blue collar to white collar” makes good sense to me. These kids are playing on quality gear I only dreamed of. Very few in my area ever had the chance to do a demo.
At the end of the day you still have to play a lot of live gigs to make things happen.
I agree that “New” acts need creature comforts…. Plus everyone has their hands in the pockets. But that hasn’t changed, Ever! My humble opinion.
Great video. I remember doing this many MANY years ago, and it was a struggle. I can only imagine what it’d be like now. So much has changed.
I love most all of your guys videos. Great channel! Liked, subscribed, and one of the few I hit the bell for. HA! Keep it up, guys!
Great points, but have you seen what some of these bands are charging for tickets these days?? I'm talking about arena bands mostly.. and some of it can be blamed by Ticketmaster but hell you can't tell me touring doesn't make money at 300 bucks to sit in nosebleeds
Back in the day you did have a $900 phone bill from calling people to book the tour. Long distance calls cost $$$$$$$$$$
I remember calling my GF at the time long distance. Lol, seems silly now, but it was a big impediment to booking outside the local area.
Great episode!. Did you get new mics. The sound was much better today. Happy New Year!
No money for gigs, the venues take a% of the merch and no CD sales? So what does a tour do for name value do if you can’t make money on merch and CDs.
Thanks for great vids. Would love to have that Silver Sky you’re giving it away!
BTW an MIM strat and a D'Ville is a hell of a rig!
Go Derrick! Keep them on their toes!!
I saw L.A. Guns here in Denver back in the early nineties. Tracy Guns is a great player and seems like a nice guy in interviews
Saw them at the Ritz NYC July 1990 at the apogee of their fame. London Choirboys opened. In the sidestreet behind the venue, there was a line of women making their way onto tour busses BEFORE the show. Damn thing started two hours late. Was Spike lonely? Medoubtsit.
Congrats on 50K!
Great video guys, Happy New Year!
What these new bands don't realize is how much overhead there is with touring, especially when opening for another band.
I enjoy your vedios, from Florida!
none of these "artists" are worth the ticket prices they charge, most of the music today sounds the same in each style
As a teenager in the 70s I went to a lot of cheap local concerts because there weren’t a lot of equal entertainment options available for cheap. Lots of hunting, fishing and camping of course but most girls weren’t interested in those things. Fast forward to today and young people aren’t inclined to go see unknown bands when they can watch the artists they love and it’s already paid for. Sure, bands (people in general) are softer but mostly it’s just a radically different consumption environment, and even those bands willing and eager to sleep in the van and eat cheap starvation diets aren’t going to make it unless they are savvy about today’s market. You aren’t going to be discovered at a dive bar; if it happens it’ll be on TH-cam or Rumble or TikTok . . . And then you still have to understand how to monetize that publicity with merch, tours and records/streaming.
Love the rants. Keep ‘em up
I make steady money during tourist season playing classic rock on an acoustic, dressed like a Pirate with some comedy interaction... Lots of talent out there; most far better than me. I’m a campfire bozo... lol Call it a Sellout or paying bills or survival... but a gimmick is a modern necessity for many of us. Like carneys or gypsy variety. Point is, we get to play and getting paid for it is a Blessing beyond measure. Humble and true to reality is how ya roll, gang. Love this show guys! Cheers!
During an interview with Keith Richards, he revealed that the Stones made a real profit during the second half of most tours due to the excessive production costs. At one point, they had three complete stage setups leapfrogging around the globe. Think about that for a minute. I can't even imagine the logistics. Absolutely mind boggling.
Touring is not what it is about in the post COVID reset. It's all about the Cottage Industry Product that Home Studios are enabled to produce and distribute. I'm working on making a high quality product to sell without having to leave my home studio.
I don't think the going rate for a unsigned band, has kept up with the same premium signed bands make. One thing that hasn't changed is that you have to do it for the love of the music, and your band mates...or you're done already.
I have 2 accounts... gave you 2 likes, 2 bells, and, 2 subs. I never win sh!t....CHANGE MY LUCK. I lost 5 guitars, and 3 amps, in a house fire...12 days into 2022. I sure could use that Silver Sky. Rock on, and keep up the format.
Back in the 1970's - 2000 bands made decent money playing live. We would get the door late 1970's and it was $1,000-$1,200 ( $4,700 in 2023 money ) at a decent bar 200-250 cap. People went out to see bands and places were packed and people drank. In the 80's there were huge clubs in NJ that held 1,200-2,000 people. Hammerjacks in Baltimore one of my favorite clubs held 3,700 people. That is a lot of big hair.
Todays music industry is more like the boxing industry in the 70s, everyone has their hand in the till, the two groups that matter, the band and the fans are the ones getting ripped off
I see some people complaining that Clubs, bars etc. today want your band to have a following and bring in customers. I have been playing in bands for more than 50 years and I can tell you that this is not a new phenomena. It's always been that way. Places book your band because you bring in customers. I don't know any place that I play where the owners/managers has entertainment because they like music. It's a business and if you can't bring in a following that can at least cover what your band expects to be paid, you won't be back and you may get nothing. In the late 70's early 80's I toured with two different bands who were linked to an agency that booked places across the US where up and coming bands with a good track record in their local area could go out for weeks (or months) and play several places a week. Your band was responsible to live on the small bit of money you were making on the road usually sleeping in the vans or in better cases a motel (not a hotel) room at the cheapest dump available. All the band often crammed into one room on most nights sleeping on the floor. You hoped that the money the band made would cover enough gas money to get to the next nights gig 300 miles away (gas, tires, trailer rentals, food etc.). We usually got a per diem (daily) pay of $5-10. That was your food money for the whole day. It was enough to cover a loaf of bread and assorted cold cuts or you and another band member split a pizza. If you were a smoker when the "tour" started you generally became a non-smoker by the end of the first week because you couldn't spend your food money on cigarettes'. Eating became much more important than cigarettes. Luxury's were scarce and usually were consisted of new guitar strings and drum sticks.
I'm not complaining though because I have great memories of my times on the road playing 4-5 times a week and seeing a lot of the US from Bismarck, ND to Dallas TX, to Omaha NB and back home to the north east where I lived but that life isn't for most bedroom/basement players with teen dreams of rock N roll stardom. It's tough and you sacrifice friends, girlfriends, family life and anything resembling a normal income. I doubt it's any different today. If you have the passion by all means do it. Just be realistic.
I want that Silver Sky! Would be a dream
I guess if you're doing something that you love like playing music and just about surviving, then even the worst day fishing is better than the best day working!
When ya'll first mention the prs giveaway weren't we commenting on who'd win in arm wrestling between Baxter and Johnathan
This is very interesting topic. I knew some local Fayetteville bands that are still going from mid 2000s.
It seems the struggle stayed the same/similar but the medium just shifted from live to online.