Just leaving this as a comment to explain the inner workings of phase change to those interested in why it seemed amazing at first and then bad towards the end of the stream. May it help you too Splitsie when you come back to fine tune it some more after adding a counterflow heat Exchange (its not as spacious as you think, still takes up space though): To start of, we need to know the properties of water, it takes 72 J to change 1 degree per mol, Its latent heat is 8000 J per 1 mol doing phase changing, and there are 55.6 mols in 1 Liter of water. The reason it worked great is because water takes a lot of thermal energy to do the change. When splitsie added close to 50+ Liters of 20C water to the liquid pipes before the evaporation chamber, he had an intense amount of water that could do the cooling. Thats more than 2700 mols of water that can absorb so much thermal energy to keep the coolant line working. the 600 mols of CO2 with a specific heat of 28.2 J cannot easily heat that up and will keep losing heat for quite some time. At first the system looks like it would be amazing and wonderful for only a 100W investment vs the other 5 ACs trying to do the same job and probably capping at 5000 J of thermal energy moved. To answer what happened, we need to look forward. Much later at @3:40:45, Splitsie had temperatures of 580K in the condensation chamber and about 480K in the evaporation chamber? Notice the 100 Degree difference there. Water and all gases used as a coolant are hard limited on phase change temperature change to be within the latent heat divided by the specific heat, for water this results in 111 degree difference. When the phase change setup is in a steady state, the maximum difference you can get will be 111 degrees, though probably never reach there. For a heat pump phase change setup to work you need to understand that the evaporation chamber cools its heat exchange line through evaporation. The excess heat the evaporation chamber takes up has to go to the condensation chamber where the gas condenses into a liquid, and that excess heat is dumped into its heat exchange pipe line. The pressure settings you set on the chambers essentially set a max temp and minimum temp, but the actual temperatures they reach are dependent on their heat exchange lines. Since he wants to cool, the evaporation chamber will keep doing cooling so long as it still has liquids to evaporate towards that temperature goal (set this as low as you want it to do). What controls the temperature at the condensation chamber is the AC further up set at 280C, or 553K. Keep in mind splitsie is trying to dump heat out of his system, in order to do so the condensation chamber must dump it, but the coldest that chamber can ever be will be 553K. This in turn means that the evaporation chamber can only drop as low as 442K (169C) because of water's phase change limitations. In the beginning, the coolant had not reached a steady state and was sucking in thermal energy from both the evaporation chamber (good, its what he wants) AND the condensation chamber (BAD, you need to dump heat here). Because of the sheer amount of water Splitsie had in the system, it would not be noticable at all until much later as the temperatures equalized. In a sense, Splitsie was cooling down both his greenhouse and attempting to cool down Venus. Once the system reached a steady state where the condensation chamber was hotter than the AC setting, he was finally dumping the excess heat back to Venus. So then the problem now is how to break past the 111 degree difference that is innate to water phase change? The answer to that is actually a counterflow heat exchanger between the gas and liquid coolant lines. What that does is it will accept the gas input from the evaporation chamber and liquid input from the condensation chamber, the two will exchange temperatures, and now you have hot gas going into the condensation chamber and cold liquid going into the evaporation chamber. What this functionally means is that if the 480K gas from the evaporation chamber exchanges its temperature with the 580K liquid from the condensation chamber, you get a close to 580K gas going into the condensation chamber and close to 480K liquid going into the evaporation chamber. This will allow the resulting evaporation to get as low as 370 K (97C), this has the ability to improve his system and expand its operating temperature range. That lower 97C temperature is an ideal temperature to actually replace his final AC with another phase change setup with a different gas if he chooses to. Adding the counterflow does take up some space (3 pipes long and about 2 pipes wide and tall worth of space) but it is fairly compact for how good it does. I will mention though that water, as well as every other coolant gas, struggles to move a lot of heat around at the extreme ends of its phase change graph. The closer water gets to 20C, the worse the performance it will have. Getting it down to 100C would be great and let another gas take over that can move more energy around at the room temperature range, or atmospheric ACs. As far as finetuning the phase change system, you have to tune it to ranges where you have 0 standing liquid in the gas pipes and the liquid pipes between the two phase change devices. Partially it is for safety, but the extra liquids in the liquid pipes do act as a capacitance so that the evaporation chamber can keep cooling if the condensation chamber stops condensing gases. The evaporation chamber maxes out the liquids it intakes at 20L, you dont want to reach this maximum so that it takes up liquids from the condensation chamber as fast as it evaporates gases. The problem with standing liquid in the liquid pipes is all those liquids that evaporate will be trapped in the gas pipes between the two chambers. Dont forget that what leaves the evaporation chamber is cold gas... that cold gas under high pressure will liquify, and water loves to condense. Currently there is a potential chance that Splitsie will break the gas pipes between the two chambers if the condensation chamber stops condensing the gases it takes in, and you actually see the symptom of this problem at 3:41:40. You can fix this by a few ways: draining the standing liquids in the liquid pipes until the evaporation chamber has less than 20L of liquid at a time, adding insulated in-line tanks to the gas pipe to reduce the pressure thus keeping less liquids in there, or adding an extra condensation chamber to take up the excess and do more work for you. Sorry for the essay, I am quite passionate about the phase change heat pump system and had probably too much time in my hands to tinker and fool around with this system a lot. 😅 I am currently working on making a cooling system with only Phase change on Venus and actually ran into these same issues a few days before the stream. Hopefully next stream we have greenery in the greenhouse!
@@Redicule_research._ridiculous You know the thermodynamic simulation is rather intense when you're not sure he's talking about the game mechanics or the _actual_ thermodynamics involved.
No problem. Oddly enough the devs have captured quite a lot of the actual thermodynamics involved. The tough part is going in with a general idea of how it works, but the slight differences with how he game handles everything and how real life thermodynamics work takes a little bit of experience to separate what is true and what is in game mechanics. He got the gist of things done, fine tuning these things is definitely some experimentation involved, but once set up you can leave it alone for a long time.
Splitsie, if you're going to start playing with logic and especially IC10 coding, I _highly highly_ recommend crafting a Configuration cartridge for your tablet. When pointed at any device, it shows you every single logic value available on that device and its current value. You could point it at a battery, for example, as see that the Ratio value is in fact the percentage, purely from the values on the tablet. It's _amazing_ when trying to code out logic for devices.
@Flipsie, So I just figured out when and why the airlock bug shows up, if you put in the disk deselect the exterior vent so that you can manually use it, then reselect it as the exterior vent, it will work while you are playing, but when you save and quit, then reload, it will be flipped, so if you manually use the vents, it's best to just deselect both vents, then reselect the vents, it should not give you any issues after that, that's why it's typically the vent to outside that get's messed up, that's typically the one you mess with the most.
Ah, that may be why that bug hasn't resurfaced lately for me. I was having it constantly early in my current playthrough, but after I built up my base more, I ended up using a separate airlock that wasn't actually configured as my "open-helmet-eat-drink-close-helmet" room (rather than the primary one that actually led outside), and now that I have a breathable living space, I never have to muck with the airlock configs for manual control. Good to know that's the cause, it jives with when I stopped encountering the bug. Much appreciated.
There is a few ways to deal with power. My solution was to mix difference sources and activate them based on a weather station. I start with 20 large batteries and 10 wind turbines. When the batteies drain to 50%, the solid generator kicks in, when it goes to 30%, the gas fuel generator kicks in. The system never charges above 50% because a storm will charge 20 batteries from 50-100%. If a storm comes, both the solid and gfg gets shut down until the storm is over. Bonus for when you get plants: making charcoal from biomass gives you volatiles from the biomass,(just cook biomass in the arc furnace in a room and suck out the gasses.) Bonus Bonus: The gas is probably cooler than atmostphere.
Alternate title: "In this space colony we obey the laws of thermodynamics!" Edit: Also TIL coding in this game feels like a cross between Arduino and an abstract RISC assembly language. Sleep probably wouldn't be in most instruction sets, for one thing.
Interestingly, IC10 originally was just a direct copy of MIPS, a real-world RISC language used to program industrial machinery. They took base MIPS and just added to and tweaked it as needed to fit the functionality in-game.
If you wanna save power then drop the pipe analyzers too. You can get the pressure reading from the Tank Storage where you put the waste tank every time. Connect to the logic slot and boom. No power readings. I use there all over my base to save power. Pipe Analyzer use 50w each
So just something of note, (I haven't made it to the end yet so I don't know if you changed it), the way you wrote the pipe script, while it works fine, is both a bit cumbersome and uses an anti-pattern in assembly that actually makes the code "slower" and technically less readable in the context of assembly. The way you did it works fine in a high level langauge but would be optimized down to something resembling the following script. alias analyzer d0 alias pump d1 alias roomSens d2 alias vent d3 start: yield //You don't need to sleep, infact sleep is generally a very bad thing to use in programming in general because it hangs, just yield in assembly to skip every other tick so things can update. l r0 analyzer Pressure sgtz r0 r0 s pump on r0 l r0 roomSense Pressure sgtz r0 r0 s pump on r0 In general branches are very slow when code runs, so doing a direct compare to 0, and then just using the output is cleaner, faster and more readable in the context of assembly, since you're using that 0 or 1 output anyway (sgtz always outputs 1 or 0) and you can just write that state directly to the pump.
Clarification: yield does not skip every other tick, it pauses the script until the start of the next tick. Also, as written in your program, if the pipe has pressure but the room does not, the pump will be kept off. Better bet is: l r0 analyzer Pressure l r1 roomSense pressure sgtz r0 r0 sgtz r1 r1 or r0 r0 r1 s pump On r0
@@KaedysKor that’s valid. Depending on where you put the yield the effective behavior is skipping every other tick. But the clarification is definitely are important. Also good catch on that. Admittedly I didn’t attempt to think through the edge cases at all lol.
What I would have done in your shoes in terns of power is to first make a larger and more efficient air con system with several large, high pressure insulated CO2 tanks that it cools. Then I would have put a sensor outside that would switch the AC system on when ever the outside temperature drops below 400 C (and switch them off if it rises above). Since that only happens during storms, you would only run the AC units when you have tonnes of surplus power and when you are pumping heat against 100 C less temp. The CO2 tanks would store the cold produces during the storms. In between storms that cold would be used to keep the base cool. On top of that, that sensor could also do things like switch the pipe heaters on and off so that they only run during storms. You should have more then enough wind turbines and batteries already if you utilize that kind of system. This would require more parts then just a sensor and a bit of programming though. I will confess that I have not played this game but have watched enough people play and enough tutorial to believe that such a system is possible and would likely be effective. Anyway, you have already gone too far down another path to turn back and do this, but it may still inspire other solutions to similar problems you will likely come across in the future.
1:16:00 That's pretty much what I've been commenting in most of your stationeers vids :P. Doing the basic, easy automation, allows you to progress a little faster and much more safely. Don't get me wrong, I'm very entertained by explosions, but it makes the game much more fun when you don't have to remember to manually open every valve or turn x device on and off. It gets tedious after a while doing that.
Been following your venus play thru and sadly have only been able to catch the live stream a little. I'm going to miss the next one all together because of work. You're furnace heating system. You tried to use the ac to take the heat from cooling your base and dumping it in and it creates problems. What you should try instead is using ac to cool the venus outside to move that heat inside. Using about 4-5 ac you can get your tank to about 1000k, Which is more than enough for steel. You still need pipe heaters to get past that point, but getting to 1000k on 5 ac is so much less power than 4 pipe heaters and it's also much faster than pipe heaters.
Thought on how you could do the room lights for the greenhouse; you could tie them into the airlock operation so when it cycles in they turn on, no sensor needed.
I really like the Battery Wireless Cell for things like tools. No more swapping batteries around. Just put some Omnidirectional distributors around your base (on the trunk power) and throw some wireless cells in your tools. They have a little bit of capacity when you are out of range and/or building an expansion and recharge constantly.
Also, for those that like that route, there's a new mod on the workshop called BigOmniTransmitter that adds a transmitter with a 40m range (with downscaling efficiency of transmission across that range). It will also transmit up to 1500W, versus the ~200 W of the standard transmitter.
4:50:30 "megawatt-hours" - given that the station batteries are able to charge to full from flat in less than a minute from 100kW, I think it's actually megawatt-seconds or megajoules. You've basically added 10kWh to your previous 8.5kWh.
Regarding the 2 transformers between batteries thing, there is currently a (very old) bug where the 2 transformers will duplicate your power output. I asked about it in the discord and it seems the issue is a hard-to-fix one which requires overhaul on power grid system. So don't expect any bug fixes about that anytime soon. So for now, you can't have transformers in parallel if you don't want to duplicate power.
I wonder how well it'd work if the two transformers were each drawing from a pair of the input batteries, or if it is their outputs being connected that causes the issue?
1:28:00 play with the baby girl you monster :p. 1:34:00 the only places your gasses that you moved from your waste gas storage lost heats was from off-gassing + heating the ores up. Off-gassing absolutely ate tons of heat from your system. Though i admit i hadn't thought about it that way myself till i saw you talking about someone else commenting on it.
batteries have always discharged serially, it's kind of annoying but it is what it is. probably easiest to to think of them as a bank of capacity and charge instead of individual cells, added all together basically.
Hei if you setting up deepmining and combustion centrifuge. Then your exstra off gasses are at ish 2000 degrees. And h2 combustion also out put 2000 degrees. So no need for loots off power to create heat . Normaly I use sirling engine to bring temp down to 464 degrees. If I don't need the heat .
on my current setup, i put a transformer in front of each battery feeding to the mains, and a power analyzer on the mains - then i have a circuit that adjusts all the transformers to an even split of the min of (current power require or 80KW), which forces them to feed evenly! would be pretty easy to do with an IC10 too, but i did quick&dirty logic chips
Hey Splitsie, "much success" this episode! - BTW, I'd made some suggestions during the stream regarding a pressurised solar panel room. Here's some errata: 1. In the stream, I suggested pressurise with CO2 and use heat exchanger to equalise with body (venus) temp. *Correction:* Passive vents inside to pipe network that runs outside and just slap some small convection radiators on them 2. I had stated that std solar panels indoors would get damaged by storms _if_ the _composition_ of the indoors atmoshere matches body atmosphere - hence 100% CO2 atmosphere in solar room. *Update:* I have seen another playthrough recently where someone was able to protect an AiMEE robot from storm damage in a "room" with doors open to the outside. That said, I'm _still not confident_ that std solar panels would escape damage in similar circumstances and would err on the side of caution!
you can also use the padded wall windows, they can withstand greater pressures than the regular steel wall windows, 200 kpa for composite window {kit (Wall)}, 300 kpa for Padded Window {Kit (Padded Wall)}, both versions of the padded wall window are at 300 kpa
@@Flipsie Worth noting that in a pinch, if your O2 tank is empty, you can likely swap your waste tank into your O2 tank slot and breath the excess O2 in it. Depends how hot it is, of course, and you either need a spare waste tank or a way to empty your O2 tank of the CO2 (if you use it as the new waste tank), but it can save you in a pinch. It's also only really a thing if you've been outside, since there's a _lot_ of extra O2 in that waste tank due to air cycling for cooling when outside, but a lot less in it (if any) when you're not in a crazy hot atmosphere.
This is one of the reasons you put the Power Control thingy in every airlock - not only to replace in case it runs out, but to hot-swap batteries for your suit in an emergency. Definitely not something to rely on all the time, but maybe one of those two-slot basic battery chargers in the airlock, too.
@paulchaisson8301 Splitsie's airlocks are already overburdened with a ton of things going through them, and those power thingies are always closed, you'd have to equip a crowbar to open them and only have a small basic battery in them if I'm not mistaken. Plus, he simply never does it, ahaha. He spends a lot of time in the greenhouse and in the furnace room and only has a battery charger at the entrance of the base. It would be an easy and quick install to have a small battery charger in each of these rooms at least.
If you want to force the batteries to drain roughly equally; place a transformer after each battery bank, just a medium will do with four or more banks of batteries, then use a cable analyser to check for required amount of power on the line, divide that by the number of battery banks you have and batch-write that to the transformers - your base needs 20kw of power? It'll set each of the banks to 5kws; they're is a little delay which can cause things to brown-out as the demand changes, but are power controls and battery cells can smooth that out. Currently you have eight wind turbines charging each of the large station batteries - on Mars, at least, just three will charge one of those batteries in a few minutes during a storm. It may be worth splitting the turbines across more batteries so you don't waste any potential energy. Possibly too late for that, considering how much work has gone into the power system already.
I suppose I could do a similar thing but with the balancing being between the large batteries on each generator set and the ones on the main power line (if the ones on the main power line ever sit fully charged). Then I'd have the balancing working properly without any risk of brownout :)
If you decide to pressurize your workroom/batteryroom remember that it will be heat up quite a lot from all the devices. And the lower the pressure the faster the heatup will be. For power saving i don't really understand why you have the tool printer and autolathe on all the time. in these 5 hours you did use the tool printer once to print2 duct tapes and the autolathe not once if i remember correctly. Each use in standy(!) about 115 W. When i checked last in my own game the 4 printers used in standby about 465 W. You can additionly save some power if you automate the O2Filtraion. The O2Ratio on the input side can be read from the filtration device itself. Did you know that the canister holder has a data port where you can read the pressure in a canister and so indirectly the pressure to the connected pipe? No need for a pipe analyser if you just want check if a pipe is empty.
A recommendation on how to hang the lights, if possible. Can you run the water line above the planters and attach the grow light to it? It would look more intentional and structural.
You cant have your upper stage of evaporation cooling work on water, water wont liquify at temp above 374C, and your discard atmosphere temp is ~460C, last 100C you have to transfer with those inefficient units(can place few in parallel). Search for substance which can exist in liquid state at t > 460C(if there any in game... sulphur would do the trick, but afaik its not in the game).
I don't believe there is anything that'll work properly within the game (though I think there's something that'll work a bit less than perfectly), however I always planned on having a couple of regular AC units in the sequence anyway. My plan here was just to cut out some of the ACs to improve my power efficiency at least a bit :)
Could you please add frames to your furnace room as wall and maybeeven ceiling? It makes me nervous everytime you use your drill outside in the area where the room would be.
Your comments about the medical in Stargate and how accurate it could be reminds me of the TV show Scrubs. It was said on the DVDs that some of the actors asked their Medical Consultants how accurate the show was being, the answer was that nearly everything, including the drama and comedy, was a very accurate representation of modern hospitals and their staff. I didn’t know if I should be impressed or terrified hahaha
Oh yeah, scrubs nailed the feeling of it all as well (at least in season 1). It seemed like the majority of the story was based on a book written by a psychiatrist 'the house of God' en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_House_of_God
Hia splise, very impresive. I have been 2 concerned to touch the automation chips myself. As for boosting your coolant available have you considered placing a liquid/gas heat exchanger before the evaperator to pre-heat the water whilst Cooling your exsternal air/waste hot air from the furnaces. this would also alow you to bost the air presher in the base as required.
He's explained this in previous episodes. He uses the volume of the Oxygen in his tank to know when he needs to process/buy more oxygen. With a pressure regulator, it's easier to get complacent and ignore the total volume of O2 in the system.
@@AndirHon I mean, my solution to that is to throw some logic chips down and output the tank pressure, or tank moles, to an LCD above the tank. I do the same thing with my water tank to know when I need to buy more (at least, until I get an H2 Combustor up and running), and with my batteries, for that matter.
@@KaedysKor Well sure. I end up doing something similar. I was simply replying with what Splitsie said was the reason for not putting a pressure regulator on his oxygen tank.
1:19:15 Sorry, had to jump in.. I've never even seen this language before, but it seemed close enough to assembly I thought I would give it a go. Found a IC simulator and wrote this.. alias Pump d0 alias PipeSensor d1 alias Vent d2 alias GasSensor d3 alias PipePressure r15 alias RoomPressure r14 alias PumpState r13 alias VentState r12 start: l PipePressure PipeSensor Pressure sgtz PumpState PipePressure s Pump On PumpState l RoomPressure GasSensor Pressure sgtz VentState RoomPressure s Vent On VentState sleep 5 j start Sorry if I jumped the gun and this is done later in the video.. I was just quite impressed with myself that I did that above without actually seeing how to use this language before watching this video.. (I normally skip the coding parts of videos)
Generally solid, but in IC10, the `sleep` command is generally discouraged. `yield` pauses until the next tick anyway, and you typically want to place a `yield` immediately after your `start:` anchor, and then just let the script run on every tick. They really don't cost that much, and sleep can have some undesirable effects. Basically, the core of every program should be: --- # Aliases of device pins, ex: alias device1 d0 # Constants define someConstant 42 # Named registers, starting from r15 and moving downwards, so the lower register numbers are kept free alias someVar r15 start: yield # program goes here j start ---
@@KaedysKor I've actually been doing some more coding with this since. Wrote an IC that can monitor up to 6 batteries and stores on the housing which one is flattest, and you could use another IC to read that setting and turn off/on a transformer, but that could only control 5 transformers. I have seen there is 'sbn' but not worked out how to construct a hash (for the name) from a compound string + variable counter yet.
@@ColinRichardson define hashName HASH("Device Name") lbn r0 [PrefabHash] hashName Variable Mode sbn [PrefabHash] hashName Variable r0 Variable is any of the normal logic variables for a device (On, Setting, Pressure, Temperature, etc). Mode is Maximum, Minimum, Average, or Sum, and only applies to loading from batch. PrefabHash is the unique ID of that type of device, which can be found by looking up that device in the Stationpedia in-game (ex, a large transformer's hash is -1423212473). You can click on the prefab hash in the Stationpedia to automatically copy it to your clipboard. Also, you can just globally write to all of a specific type of device on the network, regardless of name, using `sb` instead of `sbn`. Just takes the prefab hash of the device as an argument. sb [PrefabHash] Variable r0 As an example, this would turn on and then set the power output of all large transformers on the network to 50 kw: sb -1423212473 On 1 sb -1423212473 Setting 50000
I don't know who's saying drinking fointains are instantaneous. That has not been my experience with them at all, they've taken just a long as drinking from a bottle every time I've used them
@Flipsie I also figured out why the airlock keeps getting flipped, it has to do with selection order, whenever you reload it sets the first selected to exterior, so when you manually use it make sure to de-select both, then re-select in the correct order
Phase change isnt that great working on venus. u need spare acs to help the phase change, or use plants, like winterspawn to cool things down. winterspawns are amzing, if u know, how to work with them. tried it many times - and they work flawlessly.
It's a fantastic game if you like tinkering with these sorts of systems and automatisation. It's got a pretty rough learning curve, especially if the chemistry used is unfamiliar but once you get the basics of creating a safe space to eat and a moderate amount of power, you'll be in a position to learn all the other bits at your own pace :)
The RBLF’s Guide for making your base better. Step 1: Get Red Batteries Step 2: Charge Red Batteries Step 3: Sit back and enjoy your base knowing you have Glorious Red Batteries… Hopefully someday the Splitsie will read the guide and make his base better. 😂😂😂😂😂
Streams with no accidents: 0 Streams with no deaths: 2 2?! While splitsie is sick? Something is wrong, something is very wrong. That was way too much progress for today's little almost harmless accidents. ... Maybe you should play while sick more often, it seems your survival rate increases significantly 🤔 (meant as a joke, don't actually do that)
Just leaving this as a comment to explain the inner workings of phase change to those interested in why it seemed amazing at first and then bad towards the end of the stream. May it help you too Splitsie when you come back to fine tune it some more after adding a counterflow heat Exchange (its not as spacious as you think, still takes up space though):
To start of, we need to know the properties of water, it takes 72 J to change 1 degree per mol, Its latent heat is 8000 J per 1 mol doing phase changing, and there are 55.6 mols in 1 Liter of water.
The reason it worked great is because water takes a lot of thermal energy to do the change. When splitsie added close to 50+ Liters of 20C water to the liquid pipes before the evaporation chamber, he had an intense amount of water that could do the cooling. Thats more than 2700 mols of water that can absorb so much thermal energy to keep the coolant line working. the 600 mols of CO2 with a specific heat of 28.2 J cannot easily heat that up and will keep losing heat for quite some time. At first the system looks like it would be amazing and wonderful for only a 100W investment vs the other 5 ACs trying to do the same job and probably capping at 5000 J of thermal energy moved. To answer what happened, we need to look forward. Much later at @3:40:45, Splitsie had temperatures of 580K in the condensation chamber and about 480K in the evaporation chamber? Notice the 100 Degree difference there. Water and all gases used as a coolant are hard limited on phase change temperature change to be within the latent heat divided by the specific heat, for water this results in 111 degree difference. When the phase change setup is in a steady state, the maximum difference you can get will be 111 degrees, though probably never reach there.
For a heat pump phase change setup to work you need to understand that the evaporation chamber cools its heat exchange line through evaporation. The excess heat the evaporation chamber takes up has to go to the condensation chamber where the gas condenses into a liquid, and that excess heat is dumped into its heat exchange pipe line. The pressure settings you set on the chambers essentially set a max temp and minimum temp, but the actual temperatures they reach are dependent on their heat exchange lines. Since he wants to cool, the evaporation chamber will keep doing cooling so long as it still has liquids to evaporate towards that temperature goal (set this as low as you want it to do). What controls the temperature at the condensation chamber is the AC further up set at 280C, or 553K. Keep in mind splitsie is trying to dump heat out of his system, in order to do so the condensation chamber must dump it, but the coldest that chamber can ever be will be 553K. This in turn means that the evaporation chamber can only drop as low as 442K (169C) because of water's phase change limitations. In the beginning, the coolant had not reached a steady state and was sucking in thermal energy from both the evaporation chamber (good, its what he wants) AND the condensation chamber (BAD, you need to dump heat here). Because of the sheer amount of water Splitsie had in the system, it would not be noticable at all until much later as the temperatures equalized. In a sense, Splitsie was cooling down both his greenhouse and attempting to cool down Venus. Once the system reached a steady state where the condensation chamber was hotter than the AC setting, he was finally dumping the excess heat back to Venus.
So then the problem now is how to break past the 111 degree difference that is innate to water phase change? The answer to that is actually a counterflow heat exchanger between the gas and liquid coolant lines. What that does is it will accept the gas input from the evaporation chamber and liquid input from the condensation chamber, the two will exchange temperatures, and now you have hot gas going into the condensation chamber and cold liquid going into the evaporation chamber. What this functionally means is that if the 480K gas from the evaporation chamber exchanges its temperature with the 580K liquid from the condensation chamber, you get a close to 580K gas going into the condensation chamber and close to 480K liquid going into the evaporation chamber. This will allow the resulting evaporation to get as low as 370 K (97C), this has the ability to improve his system and expand its operating temperature range. That lower 97C temperature is an ideal temperature to actually replace his final AC with another phase change setup with a different gas if he chooses to. Adding the counterflow does take up some space (3 pipes long and about 2 pipes wide and tall worth of space) but it is fairly compact for how good it does.
I will mention though that water, as well as every other coolant gas, struggles to move a lot of heat around at the extreme ends of its phase change graph. The closer water gets to 20C, the worse the performance it will have. Getting it down to 100C would be great and let another gas take over that can move more energy around at the room temperature range, or atmospheric ACs.
As far as finetuning the phase change system, you have to tune it to ranges where you have 0 standing liquid in the gas pipes and the liquid pipes between the two phase change devices. Partially it is for safety, but the extra liquids in the liquid pipes do act as a capacitance so that the evaporation chamber can keep cooling if the condensation chamber stops condensing gases. The evaporation chamber maxes out the liquids it intakes at 20L, you dont want to reach this maximum so that it takes up liquids from the condensation chamber as fast as it evaporates gases. The problem with standing liquid in the liquid pipes is all those liquids that evaporate will be trapped in the gas pipes between the two chambers. Dont forget that what leaves the evaporation chamber is cold gas... that cold gas under high pressure will liquify, and water loves to condense. Currently there is a potential chance that Splitsie will break the gas pipes between the two chambers if the condensation chamber stops condensing the gases it takes in, and you actually see the symptom of this problem at 3:41:40. You can fix this by a few ways: draining the standing liquids in the liquid pipes until the evaporation chamber has less than 20L of liquid at a time, adding insulated in-line tanks to the gas pipe to reduce the pressure thus keeping less liquids in there, or adding an extra condensation chamber to take up the excess and do more work for you.
Sorry for the essay, I am quite passionate about the phase change heat pump system and had probably too much time in my hands to tinker and fool around with this system a lot. 😅 I am currently working on making a cooling system with only Phase change on Venus and actually ran into these same issues a few days before the stream. Hopefully next stream we have greenery in the greenhouse!
That was quite a read
Thank you
@@Redicule_research._ridiculous You know the thermodynamic simulation is rather intense when you're not sure he's talking about the game mechanics or the _actual_ thermodynamics involved.
Thank you! In video explanation just made no sense to me.
No problem. Oddly enough the devs have captured quite a lot of the actual thermodynamics involved. The tough part is going in with a general idea of how it works, but the slight differences with how he game handles everything and how real life thermodynamics work takes a little bit of experience to separate what is true and what is in game mechanics. He got the gist of things done, fine tuning these things is definitely some experimentation involved, but once set up you can leave it alone for a long time.
@@shadowdrake082🍻 This (the original post) is really good stuff.
But, you forgot to end your prose with, "Thanks for listening to my TED talk" 😂
The reason large batteries are 9000.001 kw storage is so that when they are full their power level is OVER 9000!
Splitsie, if you're going to start playing with logic and especially IC10 coding, I _highly highly_ recommend crafting a Configuration cartridge for your tablet. When pointed at any device, it shows you every single logic value available on that device and its current value. You could point it at a battery, for example, as see that the Ratio value is in fact the percentage, purely from the values on the tablet. It's _amazing_ when trying to code out logic for devices.
@Flipsie, So I just figured out when and why the airlock bug shows up, if you put in the disk deselect the exterior vent so that you can manually use it, then reselect it as the exterior vent, it will work while you are playing, but when you save and quit, then reload, it will be flipped, so if you manually use the vents, it's best to just deselect both vents, then reselect the vents, it should not give you any issues after that, that's why it's typically the vent to outside that get's messed up, that's typically the one you mess with the most.
Ah, that may be why that bug hasn't resurfaced lately for me. I was having it constantly early in my current playthrough, but after I built up my base more, I ended up using a separate airlock that wasn't actually configured as my "open-helmet-eat-drink-close-helmet" room (rather than the primary one that actually led outside), and now that I have a breathable living space, I never have to muck with the airlock configs for manual control.
Good to know that's the cause, it jives with when I stopped encountering the bug. Much appreciated.
There is a few ways to deal with power. My solution was to mix difference sources and activate them based on a weather station. I start with 20 large batteries and 10 wind turbines. When the batteies drain to 50%, the solid generator kicks in, when it goes to 30%, the gas fuel generator kicks in. The system never charges above 50% because a storm will charge 20 batteries from 50-100%. If a storm comes, both the solid and gfg gets shut down until the storm is over. Bonus for when you get plants: making charcoal from biomass gives you volatiles from the biomass,(just cook biomass in the arc furnace in a room and suck out the gasses.) Bonus Bonus: The gas is probably cooler than atmostphere.
Alternate title: "In this space colony we obey the laws of thermodynamics!"
Edit: Also TIL coding in this game feels like a cross between Arduino and an abstract RISC assembly language. Sleep probably wouldn't be in most instruction sets, for one thing.
Interestingly, IC10 originally was just a direct copy of MIPS, a real-world RISC language used to program industrial machinery. They took base MIPS and just added to and tweaked it as needed to fit the functionality in-game.
If you wanna save power then drop the pipe analyzers too. You can get the pressure reading from the Tank Storage where you put the waste tank every time. Connect to the logic slot and boom. No power readings. I use there all over my base to save power. Pipe Analyzer use 50w each
So just something of note, (I haven't made it to the end yet so I don't know if you changed it), the way you wrote the pipe script, while it works fine, is both a bit cumbersome and uses an anti-pattern in assembly that actually makes the code "slower" and technically less readable in the context of assembly. The way you did it works fine in a high level langauge but would be optimized down to something resembling the following script.
alias analyzer d0
alias pump d1
alias roomSens d2
alias vent d3
start:
yield //You don't need to sleep, infact sleep is generally a very bad thing to use in programming in general because it hangs, just yield in assembly to skip every other tick so things can update.
l r0 analyzer Pressure
sgtz r0 r0
s pump on r0
l r0 roomSense Pressure
sgtz r0 r0
s pump on r0
In general branches are very slow when code runs, so doing a direct compare to 0, and then just using the output is cleaner, faster and more readable in the context of assembly, since you're using that 0 or 1 output anyway (sgtz always outputs 1 or 0) and you can just write that state directly to the pump.
You might want to explain the term 'anti-pattern', as our dear friend here has had very little exposure to programming jargon.
Clarification: yield does not skip every other tick, it pauses the script until the start of the next tick.
Also, as written in your program, if the pipe has pressure but the room does not, the pump will be kept off. Better bet is:
l r0 analyzer Pressure
l r1 roomSense pressure
sgtz r0 r0
sgtz r1 r1
or r0 r0 r1
s pump On r0
@@KaedysKor that’s valid. Depending on where you put the yield the effective behavior is skipping every other tick. But the clarification is definitely are important.
Also good catch on that. Admittedly I didn’t attempt to think through the edge cases at all lol.
If you think sleep is a bad command, wait till you see stationers version of "StopAndCatchFire"
@@darthkarl99 what, hcf? I admit I've never a actually used it, though I know of it. Please tell me it literally catches fire.
What I would have done in your shoes in terns of power is to first make a larger and more efficient air con system with several large, high pressure insulated CO2 tanks that it cools. Then I would have put a sensor outside that would switch the AC system on when ever the outside temperature drops below 400 C (and switch them off if it rises above). Since that only happens during storms, you would only run the AC units when you have tonnes of surplus power and when you are pumping heat against 100 C less temp. The CO2 tanks would store the cold produces during the storms. In between storms that cold would be used to keep the base cool. On top of that, that sensor could also do things like switch the pipe heaters on and off so that they only run during storms. You should have more then enough wind turbines and batteries already if you utilize that kind of system. This would require more parts then just a sensor and a bit of programming though. I will confess that I have not played this game but have watched enough people play and enough tutorial to believe that such a system is possible and would likely be effective.
Anyway, you have already gone too far down another path to turn back and do this, but it may still inspire other solutions to similar problems you will likely come across in the future.
1:16:00 That's pretty much what I've been commenting in most of your stationeers vids :P. Doing the basic, easy automation, allows you to progress a little faster and much more safely. Don't get me wrong, I'm very entertained by explosions, but it makes the game much more fun when you don't have to remember to manually open every valve or turn x device on and off. It gets tedious after a while doing that.
After spending lots of time troubleshooting your code and bugs, It is so satisfying when suddenly everything works as it should!
Been following your venus play thru and sadly have only been able to catch the live stream a little. I'm going to miss the next one all together because of work.
You're furnace heating system. You tried to use the ac to take the heat from cooling your base and dumping it in and it creates problems. What you should try instead is using ac to cool the venus outside to move that heat inside. Using about 4-5 ac you can get your tank to about 1000k, Which is more than enough for steel. You still need pipe heaters to get past that point, but getting to 1000k on 5 ac is so much less power than 4 pipe heaters and it's also much faster than pipe heaters.
Thought on how you could do the room lights for the greenhouse; you could tie them into the airlock operation so when it cycles in they turn on, no sensor needed.
I really like the Battery Wireless Cell for things like tools. No more swapping batteries around. Just put some Omnidirectional distributors around your base (on the trunk power) and throw some wireless cells in your tools. They have a little bit of capacity when you are out of range and/or building an expansion and recharge constantly.
Also, for those that like that route, there's a new mod on the workshop called BigOmniTransmitter that adds a transmitter with a 40m range (with downscaling efficiency of transmission across that range). It will also transmit up to 1500W, versus the ~200 W of the standard transmitter.
4:50:30 "megawatt-hours" - given that the station batteries are able to charge to full from flat in less than a minute from 100kW, I think it's actually megawatt-seconds or megajoules. You've basically added 10kWh to your previous 8.5kWh.
Regarding the 2 transformers between batteries thing, there is currently a (very old) bug where the 2 transformers will duplicate your power output. I asked about it in the discord and it seems the issue is a hard-to-fix one which requires overhaul on power grid system. So don't expect any bug fixes about that anytime soon.
So for now, you can't have transformers in parallel if you don't want to duplicate power.
I wonder how well it'd work if the two transformers were each drawing from a pair of the input batteries, or if it is their outputs being connected that causes the issue?
@@klightspeed outputing to the same line
In case someone hasn't stated it yet the "bright fog" is from it becoming daytime.
@Splitsie, Occupancy sensor on the airlock, and some logic to toggle the lights on/off each time? If it gets out of sync, manually toggle it.
1:28:00 play with the baby girl you monster :p.
1:34:00 the only places your gasses that you moved from your waste gas storage lost heats was from off-gassing + heating the ores up. Off-gassing absolutely ate tons of heat from your system. Though i admit i hadn't thought about it that way myself till i saw you talking about someone else commenting on it.
batteries have always discharged serially, it's kind of annoying but it is what it is. probably easiest to to think of them as a bank of capacity and charge instead of individual cells, added all together basically.
Splitsies got the ol brown finger dip stick, from checking all those diapers.lol
Hei if you setting up deepmining and combustion centrifuge. Then your exstra off gasses are at ish 2000 degrees. And h2 combustion also out put 2000 degrees. So no need for loots off power to create heat . Normaly I use sirling engine to bring temp down to 464 degrees. If I don't need the heat .
52:30 Even poor jingle dog and grandma... You guys had a hard week of it.
1:00:45 The nudist incident.
on my current setup, i put a transformer in front of each battery feeding to the mains, and a power analyzer on the mains - then i have a circuit that adjusts all the transformers to an even split of the min of (current power require or 80KW), which forces them to feed evenly! would be pretty easy to do with an IC10 too, but i did quick&dirty logic chips
Hey Splitsie, "much success" this episode! - BTW, I'd made some suggestions during the stream regarding a pressurised solar panel room. Here's some errata:
1. In the stream, I suggested pressurise with CO2 and use heat exchanger to equalise with body (venus) temp. *Correction:* Passive vents inside to pipe network that runs outside and just slap some small convection radiators on them
2. I had stated that std solar panels indoors would get damaged by storms _if_ the _composition_ of the indoors atmoshere matches body atmosphere - hence 100% CO2 atmosphere in solar room.
*Update:* I have seen another playthrough recently where someone was able to protect an AiMEE robot from storm damage in a "room" with doors open to the outside. That said, I'm _still not confident_ that std solar panels would escape damage in similar circumstances and would err on the side of caution!
you can also use the padded wall windows, they can withstand greater pressures than the regular steel wall windows, 200 kpa for composite window {kit (Wall)}, 300 kpa for Padded Window {Kit (Padded Wall)}, both versions of the padded wall window are at 300 kpa
you can use any gas in your jet pack. You can condense CO2 from atmo and pump it into a tank then use that tank to fill your fuel tank
Yup, plenty of people swap out their waste tank when needing a refill
@@Flipsie Worth noting that in a pinch, if your O2 tank is empty, you can likely swap your waste tank into your O2 tank slot and breath the excess O2 in it. Depends how hot it is, of course, and you either need a spare waste tank or a way to empty your O2 tank of the CO2 (if you use it as the new waste tank), but it can save you in a pinch. It's also only really a thing if you've been outside, since there's a _lot_ of extra O2 in that waste tank due to air cycling for cooling when outside, but a lot less in it (if any) when you're not in a crazy hot atmosphere.
Splitsie, have you thought about installing a few more battery chargers throughout your base? It would save you some running around.
This is one of the reasons you put the Power Control thingy in every airlock - not only to replace in case it runs out, but to hot-swap batteries for your suit in an emergency.
Definitely not something to rely on all the time, but maybe one of those two-slot basic battery chargers in the airlock, too.
@paulchaisson8301 Splitsie's airlocks are already overburdened with a ton of things going through them, and those power thingies are always closed, you'd have to equip a crowbar to open them and only have a small basic battery in them if I'm not mistaken. Plus, he simply never does it, ahaha.
He spends a lot of time in the greenhouse and in the furnace room and only has a battery charger at the entrance of the base.
It would be an easy and quick install to have a small battery charger in each of these rooms at least.
If you want to force the batteries to drain roughly equally; place a transformer after each battery bank, just a medium will do with four or more banks of batteries, then use a cable analyser to check for required amount of power on the line, divide that by the number of battery banks you have and batch-write that to the transformers - your base needs 20kw of power? It'll set each of the banks to 5kws; they're is a little delay which can cause things to brown-out as the demand changes, but are power controls and battery cells can smooth that out.
Currently you have eight wind turbines charging each of the large station batteries - on Mars, at least, just three will charge one of those batteries in a few minutes during a storm. It may be worth splitting the turbines across more batteries so you don't waste any potential energy. Possibly too late for that, considering how much work has gone into the power system already.
I suppose I could do a similar thing but with the balancing being between the large batteries on each generator set and the ones on the main power line (if the ones on the main power line ever sit fully charged). Then I'd have the balancing working properly without any risk of brownout :)
If you decide to pressurize your workroom/batteryroom remember that it will be heat up quite a lot from all the devices. And the lower the pressure the faster the heatup will be. For power saving i don't really understand why you have the tool printer and autolathe on all the time. in these 5 hours you did use the tool printer once to print2 duct tapes and the autolathe not once if i remember correctly. Each use in standy(!) about 115 W. When i checked last in my own game the 4 printers used in standby about 465 W. You can additionly save some power if you automate the O2Filtraion. The O2Ratio on the input side can be read from the filtration device itself. Did you know that the canister holder has a data port where you can read the pressure in a canister and so indirectly the pressure to the connected pipe? No need for a pipe analyser if you just want check if a pipe is empty.
Always great to see step one of IT missed: is the device plugged in correctly. Lol
A recommendation on how to hang the lights, if possible. Can you run the water line above the planters and attach the grow light to it? It would look more intentional and structural.
I plan to use white painted regular pipes to attach them to the ceiling, similar idea but a smoother look than the water pipes :)
I'm working on a cooling system that uses one AC and a bunch of valves. So I can switch the AC to different tanks to use each tank with only one AC.
You cant have your upper stage of evaporation cooling work on water, water wont liquify at temp above 374C, and your discard atmosphere temp is ~460C, last 100C you have to transfer with those inefficient units(can place few in parallel). Search for substance which can exist in liquid state at t > 460C(if there any in game... sulphur would do the trick, but afaik its not in the game).
I don't believe there is anything that'll work properly within the game (though I think there's something that'll work a bit less than perfectly), however I always planned on having a couple of regular AC units in the sequence anyway. My plan here was just to cut out some of the ACs to improve my power efficiency at least a bit :)
Could you please add frames to your furnace room as wall and maybeeven ceiling? It makes me nervous everytime you use your drill outside in the area where the room would be.
Hearing splisie talk about phase change,Ac units and heat pumps...
Those are all the same thing IRL..
Your comments about the medical in Stargate and how accurate it could be reminds me of the TV show Scrubs. It was said on the DVDs that some of the actors asked their Medical Consultants how accurate the show was being, the answer was that nearly everything, including the drama and comedy, was a very accurate representation of modern hospitals and their staff. I didn’t know if I should be impressed or terrified hahaha
Oh yeah, scrubs nailed the feeling of it all as well (at least in season 1). It seemed like the majority of the story was based on a book written by a psychiatrist 'the house of God' en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_House_of_God
if anything I always found get together and parties with medical staff to be hilarious and just a little on the side of a national lampoon movie.
Cool to see you get in to the coding. It appears you already had a basic understanding of how it works.
Hia splise, very impresive. I have been 2 concerned to touch the automation chips myself.
As for boosting your coolant available have you considered placing a liquid/gas heat exchanger before the evaperator to pre-heat the water whilst Cooling your exsternal air/waste hot air from the furnaces. this would also alow you to bost the air presher in the base as required.
Wow a lot to take in... maybe some will stick. Beware the plants are coming...
Yeah, it's a bit overwhelming at times. I really need to remember to slow down and give myself a chance to let some of the concepts settle in :D
Why not add a pressure regulator to you oxygen refill station? Set it to something like 18 MP, and refilling will be far between
He's explained this in previous episodes. He uses the volume of the Oxygen in his tank to know when he needs to process/buy more oxygen. With a pressure regulator, it's easier to get complacent and ignore the total volume of O2 in the system.
@@AndirHon I mean, my solution to that is to throw some logic chips down and output the tank pressure, or tank moles, to an LCD above the tank. I do the same thing with my water tank to know when I need to buy more (at least, until I get an H2 Combustor up and running), and with my batteries, for that matter.
@@KaedysKor Well sure. I end up doing something similar. I was simply replying with what Splitsie said was the reason for not putting a pressure regulator on his oxygen tank.
I have to ask... will you do any gribbling to this base? :)
1:19:15 Sorry, had to jump in.. I've never even seen this language before, but it seemed close enough to assembly I thought I would give it a go. Found a IC simulator and wrote this..
alias Pump d0
alias PipeSensor d1
alias Vent d2
alias GasSensor d3
alias PipePressure r15
alias RoomPressure r14
alias PumpState r13
alias VentState r12
start:
l PipePressure PipeSensor Pressure
sgtz PumpState PipePressure
s Pump On PumpState
l RoomPressure GasSensor Pressure
sgtz VentState RoomPressure
s Vent On VentState
sleep 5
j start
Sorry if I jumped the gun and this is done later in the video..
I was just quite impressed with myself that I did that above without actually seeing how to use this language before watching this video.. (I normally skip the coding parts of videos)
Generally solid, but in IC10, the `sleep` command is generally discouraged. `yield` pauses until the next tick anyway, and you typically want to place a `yield` immediately after your `start:` anchor, and then just let the script run on every tick. They really don't cost that much, and sleep can have some undesirable effects.
Basically, the core of every program should be:
---
# Aliases of device pins, ex:
alias device1 d0
# Constants
define someConstant 42
# Named registers, starting from r15 and moving downwards, so the lower register numbers are kept free
alias someVar r15
start:
yield
# program goes here
j start
---
@@KaedysKor I've actually been doing some more coding with this since.
Wrote an IC that can monitor up to 6 batteries and stores on the housing which one is flattest, and you could use another IC to read that setting and turn off/on a transformer, but that could only control 5 transformers.
I have seen there is 'sbn' but not worked out how to construct a hash (for the name) from a compound string + variable counter yet.
@@ColinRichardson
define hashName HASH("Device Name")
lbn r0 [PrefabHash] hashName Variable Mode
sbn [PrefabHash] hashName Variable r0
Variable is any of the normal logic variables for a device (On, Setting, Pressure, Temperature, etc). Mode is Maximum, Minimum, Average, or Sum, and only applies to loading from batch.
PrefabHash is the unique ID of that type of device, which can be found by looking up that device in the Stationpedia in-game (ex, a large transformer's hash is -1423212473). You can click on the prefab hash in the Stationpedia to automatically copy it to your clipboard.
Also, you can just globally write to all of a specific type of device on the network, regardless of name, using `sb` instead of `sbn`. Just takes the prefab hash of the device as an argument.
sb [PrefabHash] Variable r0
As an example, this would turn on and then set the power output of all large transformers on the network to 50 kw:
sb -1423212473 On 1
sb -1423212473 Setting 50000
Make a portable light, turn it on and put it in your backpack. You'll get a 360 light.
Hes aware of the portable light but doesn't use it because some people experience a flickering effect from it and it causes them to have headaches.
I don't know who's saying drinking fointains are instantaneous. That has not been my experience with them at all, they've taken just a long as drinking from a bottle every time I've used them
Apparently if you press alt or something while drinking it'll make it instantaneous
@@Flipsie interesting, definitely not intentional if it works that way
@Flipsie I also figured out why the airlock keeps getting flipped, it has to do with selection order, whenever you reload it sets the first selected to exterior, so when you manually use it make sure to de-select both, then re-select in the correct order
@@Flipsie and that is indeed the case
Phase change isnt that great working on venus. u need spare acs to help the phase change, or use plants, like winterspawn to cool things down. winterspawns are amzing, if u know, how to work with them. tried it many times - and they work flawlessly.
Even months later I still haven't seen any of those seeds from traders, but fortunately my cooling system is finally working 😂
what's that brb music called? i know it from somewhere
Keep watching and im more and more tempted to buy this.
It's a fantastic game if you like tinkering with these sorts of systems and automatisation. It's got a pretty rough learning curve, especially if the chemistry used is unfamiliar but once you get the basics of creating a safe space to eat and a moderate amount of power, you'll be in a position to learn all the other bits at your own pace :)
The RBLF’s Guide for making your base better.
Step 1: Get Red Batteries
Step 2: Charge Red Batteries
Step 3: Sit back and enjoy your base knowing you have Glorious Red Batteries…
Hopefully someday the Splitsie will read the guide and make his base better. 😂😂😂😂😂
Good job on the IC coding, Splitsie. You really seem to get a handle on things! Won't be long until you start hacking SE next 😉
Streams with no accidents: 0
Streams with no deaths: 2
2?! While splitsie is sick? Something is wrong, something is very wrong. That was way too much progress for today's little almost harmless accidents.
...
Maybe you should play while sick more often, it seems your survival rate increases significantly 🤔 (meant as a joke, don't actually do that)
Splitsie now has to intentionally get sick for his Streams ;)
I built stackers, they are over rated.
FIRST! IM A HUGE FAN!