Just an FYI, you should check out hot wire cutting for the foam and cleaning up the excess that came out the top. Maybe check out some model plane building that uses the technique.
I really felt your pain whilst gearing up to do this. I share your reluctance to engage with foam of any sort in a closed void in a boat. Like you, I’ve seen the rot and horrors that PU foam can create in years to come. Honestly, I think you came up with the best set of solutions and, as ever, carried them out beautifully. Lovely job. 👍
Incredibly great use of readily available materials. Done very cleanly. I'll probably be utilizing some of the ways how you did this. Great job and thank you for posting it. Absolute cleanest float job I've seen, ever. 🤙🏼
Hi Mark here’s an idea, after fitting the blue polystyrene remove and line the hull with cling film this will stop it sticking to the hull and if any fears of water getting in you can lift the whole block out to dry or any maintenance in the future, of course it’ll mean having a removable deck but your a clever guy this is just planting a seed of an idea for you or anyone else. Love the work Mick G .in the UK.
WHAT A GREAT SERIES OF FILMS. ONE OF MY DREAMS IS TO BUILD AN ALL WOODEN BOAT. IVE BUILT SEVERAL SMALL-SCALE MODEL BOATS ONE WITH ABOUT 3.5 THOUSAND DOWELS. LOOKING FORWARD TO MAKING IT HAPPEN! PERHAPS 8FT IN LENGHT. MY CHEAP TOOLS, CHEAP WOOD BUT WOW WHAT ENJOYMENT IT WILL BE. THANKS FOR ALL THE INSPIRATION. IM SURE THE CRAZY GUY WILL PAY WELL FOR YOUR WORK AND ENJOY WATCHING HIS LOVELY BOAT IN PROSSES TO BOOT!!!
If you ever get a blop of foam where you don't want it, Spritz it lightly with water wait a bit and you can lightly pluck it off what it is on. (here is not so much a problem but think installing a window and getting some on the carpet). Spray foam cures with the humidity in the air, spritzing water makes a hard outer shell that can be used to remove it. As always, thanks for sharing your work. Have to say you inspired me to refinish our stairs!
You could have made quick work of that foam with a hot knife. Easily made by hand using wire, some wood, and a car battery. It would have cut that foam like butter, smooth as a jiffy. These are used in the experimental aircraft hobby (LongEz, VariEz, etc...).
Mark, a fantastic video as always. I am (very slowly) building a 16’ Melonseed, and nowhere have I found anything on adding buoyancy; I may have just found a great solution. Thanks for the inspiration.
If it were my boat I would just go with empty buoyancy/storage tanks. I have no choice in this situation unfortunately. Love melon seeds btw. Never built one so far though.
Well done a neat job, yes pour in foam really can deform during installation and absorb weight later in the yachts life. I am impressed with your method.
good choice with using foam panels than the one you pour in. when i was still doing Cutterrowing in Central Germany we had 3 Cutters: 2 Wood and 1 out of GFK with the entire inside wich is like double hull filled with that foam. and we had similar issue that it was constantly listing to one side from waterlock and the weight itself. normaly its a bit over 1 ton for competitions. we had to cut alot of small holes and dig in with hands to get rid of it. on the other hand you allways had almost explosion sounds from the metal tanks extending when it gets warmer. ZK 10 Kutters where 10 oars with a 2 Mast Gaff Ketch. 24feet length over all and mast height 1090kg weight.
O man I can imagine your dread and understand perfectly why you didn't want to do what I just witnessed but you've done a good job..what ever that means, in this application, right. I know one thing if I had to do that I would've most likely made a mess of it. lol
Sounds like the rules wont allow for racing, but for a personal boat, I've been looking at filling the voids with pingpong or similar balls that can be removed with a large vacuum occasionally for when inspection and maintenance or welding is needed. They also allow airflow for drying and dont absorb water.
What a shame to have to cover all that beautiful craftsmanship. Although you can make any material look good! Lol Your work is a credit to your profession. Thanks for making the awesome videos!
Watching you use blue foam is taking me back to architecture school. Hours and hours of cutting foam to make form & scale models. Usually during all nighters surviving on coffee. I can feel the anxiety I sensed you really didn’t enjoy putting damn foam in the bouyancy tanks either
I dont know how often you use xps foam in you boatbuilding but it might be worth purchasing a hotwire knife table I have one for hobby model terrain making and I can cut up to 5 inches of depth at a time. Also the angle of cut is adjustable so it wouldn't be all that difficult to fair the curve to fit the hull fairly snuggly. I have a proxon table with a foot pedal and it's a dream to use to eliminate that foam squeak!
I don't think so. There really weren't any issues, and by going athwartship I was able to foam in against the hull sides much more effectively and with less material.
Presumably the combination of a lead keel and also some sailors of limited mobility means if there was a catastrophic collision the boat could go down very quickly leaving little time to escape the cockpit and entrapment potential. Hence the requirement for foam.
Boy! You must have been glad to see the end of THAT task and clean up the shop... Very tidy result though. Have you weighed the actual boat itself though?
I'm not a boat builder, and I don't know the regulations regarding this build, but could you have put a large plastic bag into the void, then filled it with foam allowing it to expand & fill the void in a similar manner to a tire inner tube filling the casing, which would allow lifting it out in one piece later if necessary?
How do you prove to the Scrutineers that you have the flotation installed, when it’s all covered? Nice job, by the way! (Maybe you just have to sign off that you’ve done it - honesty system?)
We have inspection hatches for one, and by communicating with the head scrutineer through the building process. Of course we have video evidence of the foaming job!
“Video evidence” !! Duh! Stupid me! (Thanks for quick answer, Mark) Also… I’m interested you’ve been communicating with the head scrutineer through the process. Makes sense.. cheers and all the best from Hong King!
@@peterforsythe3643 Well, the local scrutineer at least. That's all that matters. My client isn't planning on any international competition. He just want's to kick some local butt.
The name of this boat must be "Hidden Gator". I live in Gainesville Florida, home of The University of Florida, Gators, team colors, Orange and Blue. You will hide them when the deck goes in place. What do you think?
Did you consider filling the voids with ping pong balls? Or giving up your 1970s bean bag? Good decision on the 2 part foam. That could even burst a seam, or distend the shape of the hull or deck. It's horrible stuff to work with. The drain hole is almost a philosophical question. Any hole that can let water out can also let water in, unless you have a non-return valve.
The boats have to pass an inspection, measurement, flood test, etc to get certified for the class. There must be an inspection hatch that has to be open for the flood test.
BTW - How much weight can your foam flotation float? Eureka! I imagine that Archimedes would probably estimate the buoyancy to be equal to the weight of water that could fill the foam cavities, right?
Lpts of extra work for no net benefit. Should have used the standard boat foam. Not sure you took into account material density and water absorption. Also, making provisions for water that wouldn't even be thete if done properly.
He mentions that it’s closed-cell foam board, so absorption shouldn’t be a major issue. The pour-in foam has no sealing properties and so whichever method is chosen some accommodation for water management seems appropriate.
Hi great job but STUPID Rule: do not forget to leave tube space for Jip sail controls (cunning & bow line) and rear deck back stays ). But just to repeat silly rules ( could be related to considerations for handicap needs.
this is the first episode that made me cringe/wince. I've watched them all and waiting for the finish of the dory but understand that you have to work, not just on editing. the pipe insulation with knife slits isn't going to allow moisture out. I wondered why you didn't just leave a gap at the bottom and only spray foam the sides. the inspection port is a joke at this point, so why did they make you make it in the first place? oh, yeah, I can see foam through this... what good does that do? silly rule. looking forward to the deck.
You might be right about the pipe insulation but it did do the job of raising the panels for foaming and yes the inspection holes are purely to prove that there is foam inside.
@@Nomadboatbuilding I have no idea how you find the time in the first place! have I told you my only canadian joke? re: british pronunciation. theas a fiyeah at the end of the peeayahh somewheah in canerder. love your stuff buddy keep em coming i have to rewatch every once in a while to learn the tricks. looks like the deck is next I'm very excited! nice work on the hatch, it's really coming together. looks like you're already preparing for the next project, too... where does the name catalina come from?
In the vast majority of your episodes I get great satisfaction watching fine wood getting shaped by wonderful tools. This is the cringe episode! Goopy toxic sticky crud squirting uncontrollably on your fine woodwork....NOOOO! Plastic dust floating in clouds around your shop full of wonderful tools... NOOOOO! I have many ideas to avoid this travesty, but I am sure you don't want to hear them now.
![เปิด อาณาจักร หมื่นล้าน "สาระตั้ม" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3XE0nPF4YkQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Consolation prize... that is by far the neatest floatation foam job I have ever seen. BZ.
Thank you.
Just an FYI, you should check out hot wire cutting for the foam and cleaning up the excess that came out the top. Maybe check out some model plane building that uses the technique.
I really felt your pain whilst gearing up to do this. I share your reluctance to engage with foam of any sort in a closed void in a boat. Like you, I’ve seen the rot and horrors that PU foam can create in years to come.
Honestly, I think you came up with the best set of solutions and, as ever, carried them out beautifully.
Lovely job. 👍
Thanks Rob. Sometimes you just have to roll the dice and accept that wooden boats are not forever.
Incredibly great use of readily available materials. Done very cleanly. I'll probably be utilizing some of the ways how you did this. Great job and thank you for posting it. Absolute cleanest float job I've seen, ever. 🤙🏼
Hi Mark here’s an idea, after fitting the blue polystyrene remove and line the hull with cling film this will stop it sticking to the hull and if any fears of water getting in you can lift the whole block out to dry or any maintenance in the future, of course it’ll mean having a removable deck but your a clever guy this is just planting a seed of an idea for you or anyone else. Love the work Mick G .in the UK.
I actually entertained that idea but we decided that the bonding to the hull was providing a significant bit of desired structure.
WHAT A GREAT SERIES OF FILMS. ONE OF MY DREAMS IS TO BUILD AN ALL WOODEN BOAT. IVE BUILT SEVERAL SMALL-SCALE MODEL BOATS ONE WITH ABOUT 3.5 THOUSAND DOWELS. LOOKING FORWARD TO MAKING IT HAPPEN! PERHAPS 8FT IN LENGHT. MY CHEAP TOOLS, CHEAP WOOD BUT WOW WHAT ENJOYMENT IT WILL BE. THANKS FOR ALL THE INSPIRATION. IM SURE THE CRAZY GUY WILL PAY WELL FOR YOUR WORK AND ENJOY WATCHING HIS LOVELY BOAT IN PROSSES TO BOOT!!!
Looks pretty damn good to me. I’m going to use this on my Mirror dinghy
If you ever get a blop of foam where you don't want it, Spritz it lightly with water wait a bit and you can lightly pluck it off what it is on. (here is not so much a problem but think installing a window and getting some on the carpet). Spray foam cures with the humidity in the air, spritzing water makes a hard outer shell that can be used to remove it. As always, thanks for sharing your work. Have to say you inspired me to refinish our stairs!
That’s a great tip. Thanks.
You could have made quick work of that foam with a hot knife. Easily made by hand using wire, some wood, and a car battery. It would have cut that foam like butter, smooth as a jiffy. These are used in the experimental aircraft hobby (LongEz, VariEz, etc...).
Looks great what pain staking work I felt the torture as I watched along, final product amazing
Mark, a fantastic video as always. I am (very slowly) building a 16’ Melonseed, and nowhere have I found anything on adding buoyancy; I may have just found a great solution. Thanks for the inspiration.
If it were my boat I would just go with empty buoyancy/storage tanks. I have no choice in this situation unfortunately. Love melon seeds btw. Never built one so far though.
Well done a neat job, yes pour in foam really can deform during installation and absorb weight later in the yachts life. I am impressed with your method.
Very awesome Building Si
Wow! Mark well done. Finished product looks great.
good choice with using foam panels than the one you pour in. when i was still doing Cutterrowing in Central Germany we had 3 Cutters: 2 Wood and 1 out of GFK with the entire inside wich is like double hull filled with that foam. and we had similar issue that it was constantly listing to one side from waterlock and the weight itself. normaly its a bit over 1 ton for competitions. we had to cut alot of small holes and dig in with hands to get rid of it. on the other hand you allways had almost explosion sounds from the metal tanks extending when it gets warmer.
ZK 10 Kutters where 10 oars with a 2 Mast Gaff Ketch. 24feet length over all and mast height 1090kg weight.
Came out looking good.
Wow messy, still came out good.
So whatever floats yer boat 🤣😅😂
Fantastic! 🇨🇦
Very nice job , wonderful technology - nasty sh8T ,EH! Thanks for posting.
O man I can imagine your dread and understand perfectly why you didn't want to do what I just witnessed but you've done a good job..what ever that means, in this application, right. I know one thing if I had to do that I would've most likely made a mess of it. lol
Sounds like the rules wont allow for racing, but for a personal boat, I've been looking at filling the voids with pingpong or similar balls that can be removed with a large vacuum occasionally for when inspection and maintenance or welding is needed. They also allow airflow for drying and dont absorb water.
You wouldn’t get enough floatation though. Too much space between those balls.
What a shame to have to cover all that beautiful craftsmanship. Although you can make any material look good! Lol Your work is a credit to your profession. Thanks for making the awesome videos!
I hear you but it would have been buried under a deck anyway.
I thought the thumbnail was fried chicken... I was like YA, Gonna be a good one
Hahaha. Food reference comment #7. Third for chicken related.
Foam kicks back soooo easy on table saw and hurts
It sure as hell does as I have discovered too many times.
Watching you use blue foam is taking me back to architecture school. Hours and hours of cutting foam to make form & scale models. Usually during all nighters surviving on coffee. I can feel the anxiety I sensed you really didn’t enjoy putting damn foam in the bouyancy tanks either
I had the same experience when I studied industrial design.
@@Nomadboatbuilding ahh your sketch diaries & process makes much more sense now.
An electric bread knife is a good option for trimming foam
I dont know how often you use xps foam in you boatbuilding but it might be worth purchasing a hotwire knife table I have one for hobby model terrain making and I can cut up to 5 inches of depth at a time. Also the angle of cut is adjustable so it wouldn't be all that difficult to fair the curve to fit the hull fairly snuggly. I have a proxon table with a foot pedal and it's a dream to use to eliminate that foam squeak!
You can also re-close the cells on the outside with a heat gun if you don't like the fuzzy texture
I very rarely mess around with this stuff.
My thoughts exactly. Done wing cores 30” wide with a makeshift hot bow saw🤣 way less messy too.
The PU foam can degas for weeks. It was a problem I came across plug making.
Hello: Still think it is a stupid idea - but do not forget to leave space for fwd & rear control lines, ( if not too late).
In hind site, would you have had less issues if had run the foam board in line with the centerline? Thoughts.
I don't think so. There really weren't any issues, and by going athwartship I was able to foam in against the hull sides much more effectively and with less material.
I’m curious as to whether a piece of soaker garden hose would have also worked, being somewhat rigid yet also completely porous.
Yes, that would probably have been a good option too.
Presumably the combination of a lead keel and also some sailors of limited mobility means if there was a catastrophic collision the boat could go down very quickly leaving little time to escape the cockpit and entrapment potential. Hence the requirement for foam.
Exactly right. I can't argue with that.
you could use the hot wire method pioneered by Burt Rutan to carve the wing cores on his Vari Eze
I considered that but I just don’t need any more tools around that won’t get used again anytime soon.
The squeaking of the styrofoam set my teeth on edge. I don’t know how you could stand it. A really nice solution to a really ugly problem, though!
I think the squeaking is worse on camera than in person but yes, I know what you mean.
Yuk! But nicely done. I have to do something like this with my old Princecraft aluminum canoe.
Boy! You must have been glad to see the end of THAT task and clean up the shop... Very tidy result though. Have you weighed the actual boat itself though?
Yes I have. I don’t recall what the current weight was at. Written down somewhere.
I'm not a boat builder, and I don't know the regulations regarding this build, but could you have put a large plastic bag into the void, then filled it with foam allowing it to expand & fill the void in a similar manner to a tire inner tube filling the casing, which would allow lifting it out in one piece later if necessary?
We actually discussed that but the client preferred that it bond to the hull. It’s providing a pretty substantial amount of structure that way.
How do you prove to the Scrutineers that you have the flotation installed, when it’s all covered? Nice job, by the way!
(Maybe you just have to sign off that you’ve done it - honesty system?)
We have inspection hatches for one, and by communicating with the head scrutineer through the building process. Of course we have video evidence of the foaming job!
“Video evidence” !! Duh! Stupid me! (Thanks for quick answer, Mark)
Also… I’m interested you’ve been communicating with the head scrutineer through the process. Makes sense.. cheers and all the best from Hong King!
@@peterforsythe3643 Well, the local scrutineer at least. That's all that matters. My client isn't planning on any international competition. He just want's to kick some local butt.
The name of this boat must be "Hidden Gator". I live in Gainesville Florida, home of The University of Florida, Gators, team colors, Orange and Blue. You will hide them when the deck goes in place. What do you think?
thumbnail made me hungry.
How did you do all that without getting it all over your hands
lol, that's a trial by fire thing. Do it enough and you will bloody well learn. Acoustic Seal is the Mother of all materials for mess.
Good question. I wasn’t so lucky when installing the windows at my cabin.
Did you consider filling the voids with ping pong balls? Or giving up your 1970s bean bag?
Good decision on the 2 part foam. That could even burst a seam, or distend the shape of the hull or deck. It's horrible stuff to work with.
The drain hole is almost a philosophical question. Any hole that can let water out can also let water in, unless you have a non-return valve.
It’s actually sealed off from when I epoxied in the plug. You will have to run a drill bit through to break the seal. Did that on purpose.
Those options would not have healed enough buoyancy. You would be surprised how space is between all those balls.
Well done ! All that angst and you prevailed. What grit sandpaper were you using on the electric sanders?
60 grit I think. The multimaster had a something much courser.
Try using hot wire.
You could have left a large central void in each section which once sealed in with the top deck is an airpocket. Added lightness.
I believe he said the class rules require it to be solid foam.
That’s correct.
@@Nomadboatbuilding but who would know? ;)
The boats have to pass an inspection, measurement, flood test, etc to get certified for the class. There must be an inspection hatch that has to be open for the flood test.
boatbuilder fights with foam. News at 11
Hehehe
BTW - How much weight can your foam flotation float? Eureka! I imagine that Archimedes would probably estimate the buoyancy to be equal to the weight of water that could fill the foam cavities, right?
In round numbers 640 lbs ish.
I thought a coat of epoxy over the top of the foam would go a long way towards sealing the foam from water intrusion.
It will get coated in epoxy when the deck gets glued on.
Lpts of extra work for no net benefit. Should have used the standard boat foam. Not sure you took into account material density and water absorption. Also, making provisions for water that wouldn't even be thete if done properly.
Although you did a nice job of doing what you did, like always ;)
He mentions that it’s closed-cell foam board, so absorption shouldn’t be a major issue. The pour-in foam has no sealing properties and so whichever method is chosen some accommodation for water management seems appropriate.
@@philareilly good call Dow do blue foam flotation billets not what the density is 4lbs rings a bell 👍
That thumbnail looks like mashed potatoes and butter.
What a right pain in the arse, that looked like a real faff, i bet you`re glad now it`s done?.
Sure am. It was fairly painless in the end thankfully.
Yep it Will float 👍 First time ive ever notice pour translate into porn.. 😂
But then again this is kind of boat, diy, fabrication porn 🤔🤗
It got dirty there for a moment, but then came out beautiful.
Hi great job but STUPID Rule: do not forget to leave tube space for Jip sail controls (cunning & bow line) and rear deck back stays ). But just to repeat silly rules ( could be related to considerations for handicap needs.
Well behind every safety related rule there is usually the loss of a life. I don’t like it but I can’t fight it either.
I don't know. Feels like some kind of crime!
I don't disagree.
I must say I don’t like what you say you had to do, myself I would have filled the voids with ping pong balls and put the covers back on.
But that wouldn’t jive with the rules.
this is the first episode that made me cringe/wince. I've watched them all and waiting for the finish of the dory but understand that you have to work, not just on editing. the pipe insulation with knife slits isn't going to allow moisture out. I wondered why you didn't just leave a gap at the bottom and only spray foam the sides. the inspection port is a joke at this point, so why did they make you make it in the first place? oh, yeah, I can see foam through this... what good does that do? silly rule. looking forward to the deck.
You might be right about the pipe insulation but it did do the job of raising the panels for foaming and yes the inspection holes are purely to prove that there is foam inside.
I would very much like to finish up the dory series but my editing time is maxed out at the moment. It get's two or three hours every day as it is.
@@Nomadboatbuilding I have no idea how you find the time in the first place! have I told you my only canadian joke? re: british pronunciation. theas a fiyeah at the end of the peeayahh somewheah in canerder. love your stuff buddy keep em coming i have to rewatch every once in a while to learn the tricks. looks like the deck is next I'm very excited! nice work on the hatch, it's really coming together. looks like you're already preparing for the next project, too... where does the name catalina come from?
@@willisgemutlich2608 Catalina is one of the islands in the area near LA where the client plans to use his boat.
Foam floatation, that sucks. Clearly a rule created for fibreglass boats.
Indeed. As are the rules governing the hull and deck weight which doesn’t factor in a backbone structure.
Opening picture looks like a fried chicken 🍗 leg
Food reference comment #6
@@Nomadboatbuilding I wasn't hungry when I watched your video and didn't read all the others guess I was thinking about fried chicken
32:20 Worst. ASMR. Ever.
Hahaha. True.
In the vast majority of your episodes I get great satisfaction watching fine wood getting shaped by wonderful tools. This is the cringe episode! Goopy toxic sticky crud squirting uncontrollably on your fine woodwork....NOOOO! Plastic dust floating in clouds around your shop full of wonderful tools... NOOOOO!
I have many ideas to avoid this travesty, but I am sure you don't want to hear them now.
Well I cringed plenty at the prospect of doing this but it was out of my hands.
Oh that looks like fun! Not! :D Nice work on a very ugly job.
Very good job , came out great.☺