How to Attach Wood to Steel
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- A Surprising Secret allows use of discrete fasteners to Attach Wood to Steel when unsightly self-drilling TEK screws or Hex Head Bolts are unacceptable. Learn how ordinary tools and a simple process make attaching ship-lap cedar boards to a welded steel door frame easy-peasy!
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Can these screws be used to attach cypress to 14 gauge 2.5in steel frame
tubing in a metal bldg?
I'm sure they can but you'll probably need to do a bit of trial and error to get it to work consistently. As a rule of thumb, the thicker the steel, the larger the pilot hole. That's because in thicker steel the screw's threads aren't really cutting threads into the hole as much as they are deformed by compression. To see what I mean, drive a screw in so it grabs and seats and then remove it. There won't be much for threads in the inside of the hole but threads on the screw will be mashed down considerably. Keep in mind that it doesn't really take much for the screw to hold wood to steel strong enough so that if you try to pull a board off the screw head pulls through the wood but the screw sticks in the steel. Do some experimenting to find the smallest size hole that screws can be driven into consistently without breaking the screw or stripping its head.
BTW I'm trying to source about 300~400 board feet of 4/4 cypress for a project and can't find anyone locally to supply it. Where are you getting yours? A source would be greatly appreciated!
Best, Matt
@@NextLevelCarpentry Dude stop adding music. there is no need to add music. TY for listening.
@@MichaelMantion TY for listening?! You are polite enough but if you think I'm going to quit producing videos the way I do because of your comment you're at least mildly delusional🤨😂😂
did you find your cypress? @@NextLevelCarpentry
Love the way you speed up the video for the bits that aren't so important. Great time saver!
First time I have seen your site. DOUBLE IMPRESSED. Thank you sir
Watch you from Norway 🇧🇻. Great video😊👍
Holy smokes! That's got to be the shortest video ever... shorter than most introductions!
All the best!
Thanks for the one method of production and as you've probably seen, there are extra methods for increased strength such as blind rivet nuts and thanks also, for not playing distracting music in the background during your treatise on this. Five stars for communication, ability, forward thinking on your other videos too. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Fantastic little tip! I do prefer stainless when working with cedar though. I’ve found EVERY other fastener eventually starts bleeding, regardless how corrosion resistant they say they are.
Thanks for posting this comment with your preference Dan! Because of it I checked Amazon and found they have the same GRK torx drive trim screws (in 1 1/2" length) in STAINLESS STEEL... NOICE!! Stainless is my preference as well but I didn't think to see if they were available until now. I thank you and my client thanks you as we won't have to deal with inevitable streaking (eventually) from the good but not as good fasteners I use in the video. Best, Matt
@@NextLevelCarpentry I’ve gleaned a lot from you Matt, glad I could be useful!! The stainless screws are NOTICEABLY softer- as you’d expect. Just takes a little more patience/precision, and you’ve got plenty of both. Love those little screws.
@@danervin2530 I'm duly noting the 'noticeably softer' part and, with that in mind, plan to use a little wax on threads of those on the door after its powdercoated. Thankfully there's only 32 fasteners that go into metal, the rest go into wood (pine and redwood) so I think it won't be too much of a fight...🤞🏻🤞🏻 it's well worth any extra fuss for streak-free-and-proud fastening though!
Nicest thunder box door I’ve ever seen. Well done moon cutout with the angle and shape. That care seen even in that detail.
"Thunder Box" LOL... never heard it called that before but I love it!! BTW I plan to make the moon shape a 'window' that opens and closes from the inside... Best to you F.W. ! Matt
I love neatly kept sheds and workshops.
I have learned a lot from this video. Thank you .
Cedar in Australia is super expensive. The quality of your work is outstanding and your explanations are great - I think the mm measurement is around 2 mm😁
Older Engineers appreciate your little jab
Great looking door and frame.
Thanks Mr Greg! I'm a little deflated because the overall project got downgraded from an outdoor shower/privvy combo to just a 'thunder box' but I totally understand my client's choice on the matter. Thanks for watching and commenting! Best, Matt
Just started watching your videos.
I'm a carpenter of over 20 years experience and I wish I was half as good as you are. You make it simple but quality and effective. Great work!
I too was half as good as I am now 20 years ago so I anticipate good thing for your future Carlos... thanks for watching Next Level Carpentry videos too! Best, Matt
Great video+explanation+presentation! Thank you SO MUCH for sharing your knowledge! Well done mate - NEW SUB 🙏🏻
My dear sir, you're a genius...You saved me a plethora of frustration & embarrassing moments. Bless you!!
Excellent pro tip.
I have to agree with you. GRK screws are first-rate.
Thanks!!
Milli-minches... Love it.
Great video! And it's fun to see your work space. Thank you for the great tips!
Yep, works nice with GRK screws, also works well with Spax. I’m sure it will work with other high quality screws as well. Another good one for interior trim work with steel stud framing is Senco’s hardened diamond point 15 gauge finish nails.
Good evening from Auckland, New Zealand ...we are in 'Lock-Down' should be moving out from 'Level 4 to Level 3' tomorrow meaning some of us can go to work !!!
That is such a neat technique
milliminches 😁
You are clearly from the developed world! 😆
I really wish we were all metric….so much easier!
Dill bit lit
I love combining steel fabrication with woodwork. Powder coating is a great solution for protecting the steel (if not stainless). The temptation is to pick black or something outrageous. I tend to pick colors that compliment the wood finishes I use.
Hah! That’s a finely crafted outhouse, for sure.
Thanks for the tip! Oh, I also have been known to add a daub of PL200 to the joint between steel and wood to ensure it stays together through inevitable door slams favored by young folks…😉
I just came on here to comment about your PVC trim article. And you were really down on painters. A painter by trade for 30 plus years I understand what you're saying. A lot of painters are bad however not all of us are. I've always schooled the carpenters and finished carpenters on how caulk and putty will not fix everything. So yeah, show me a good carpenter/finish carpenter and I'll show you a good painter. Hardly anyone one glory's in the Lord with their work these days.
Eeeeecept I didn't do a PVC trim article. 😶
Looks fantastic. Thanks. Also i love the "in the developed world.." haha
That's awesome nice barn 🚪
You know I can't believe there aren't more TH-cam videos on the GRK Trim Screws. They work amazing and I've used them for so many projects. Metric for the developed world! LMAO 🤣
Thank you. I like your videos. Nice door :)
Nice video...have you ever consider rivets? Structural huck rivets or Countersunk rivets look cool and have holding power far in excess of screws.
Properly done... Impressive...... ❤
LOL! Funny! I would *_definitely_* want some " mega screw heads showing" on my custom boards. Some big stainless steel ones. Everybody's different.
Fantastic! Thank you🙏🏼
I do that all the time,Great video!,also you should show them the regular screw with the wire trick for attaching wood into concrete instead of the stupid tapcons!Cheers from the North!!(Canada)
Great minds think alike, right?! 😎
You had me on milliminches. 😁 Subscribed!
Awesome door! Great tips!!
The Man.
Thank you.
Great vid Matt!
Thanks Curtis... are you back in the area or still at large? Hope all's well! Best, Matt
PS Sad day: just this morning cut a nice, clean little kerf in the edge of the otherwise magnificent phenolic top on my tablesaw! 😳 I'll have to fill the scar with JB Weld and get on with life but the event was an embarrassing moment of sadness!
What many don't realize and many more do, is that trim screws, all weather deck screws, even the E.G. (gold) drywall type are case hardened steel (actually, the black phosphate drywall screws are too), or a fully hardened steel. This is a pretty old trick and works well. With the right sized pre-drill the screws are hard enough to cut their own threads. How do you know they're hardened? Drive one into a scrap of wood about 1/3 to 1/2 of the screw length and bend it over with a hammer. It'll break off either on the initial bend force or when you straighten it, you won't get it to bend twice. Denotes a hardened steel. Try it.
Very clean!!! Master you are!
Ok yoda
@@galvanizedgnome whats yoda??
Yoda from Star Wars (I have no idea which one/ones) uses phrasing like you did in your original comment. Apparently this is a classic: “When nine hundred years old you reach, look as good you will not.” Yoda in Return of the Jedi
@@NextLevelCarpentry oh sorry,
@@3dandyrandy3 Google it, I had to!🤣
Another incredible video…
Outstanding. Slick!!!
I used those screws there are good and yes you can use them on pressure tread lumber ..
Very good Sir!
Great video.
Love the video
For invisible and strong mounting, also consider Rampa screw-in nuts on the back of the wood. Not as quick, though...
Impresive!
Enjoyed the video. Would love to see you put the metal frame together.
Me too. Next Level Weldingry?
Very instructive as any of your videos. One question about this one's subject. Can wood movement while screwed to the steel make the board crack?
I'm sure it could, just like when wood is screwed or nailed to wood. Main thing is that this is the best option for holding wood to steel without using fasteners with large, exposed heads IMHO.
Great vid! Love the door!
If if I wanted zero hardware visible on the face, would it be possible to to screw the panels down from behind? If so, would the same screws work?
I wouldn't recommend use of the same screws for holding the panels on from the back Chris. It takes a large screw diameter to hold in soft wood like cedar and redwood because you only get about 5/8" screw depth when attaching 3/4" ~ 13/16" thick panels from the back side so I use #12 or #14 stainless steel pan head screws for projects that require 'invisible' fasteners. I considered them for this project but the it was cost prohibitive because of extra time for planning, layout, drilling and assembly. Plus all the rest of the siding on the structure will be attached with torx drive trim screws too, so a precedent was set.
Thanks for watching and commenting on this video! Best, Matt
@@NextLevelCarpentry Thanks for the reply! Keep up the great work!
Love the video. Keep up the good work. What is this door going to be used for? I’ve never seen a door like that
Hello, putting up a steel i-beam and need to connect plywood to the top flange. 1. What type of plywood would be best? 2. What type of self tapping screws would go through 1/2” steel flange? Note: steel mill is making holes
in top of flange for me.. thank you sir!
Dear Matt, thanks for the tip. Hiding the screws certainly makes the final look more professional.
One thing I have to point out is that your videos all look a little blurry. Could it be that the lens filter for your camera has picked up dust, paint or sandblasting marks? Changing the cover filter would be an easy fix to deliver sharp, crisp videos. Alternatively it’s the resolution of your camera or the resolution you compile your videos on your computer, like VGA vs HD or SHD. I miss some of the detail like when sanding Bondo on your video on preparing paint grade lumber for finishing. Cheers.
If there's any clear shots in videos you're referring to then any 'blurry' clips you see are due to lighting, temporary dust on the lens or the fact that, because I shoot all the video myself, I need to do a lot of digital zooming, sometimes to as much as 200%, which tends to 'pixelate' video and decrease clarity. I only wish it was something cured as easily as a dusty lens😥
@@NextLevelCarpentry Yes I see. The one example I can think of was when you were “zooming” in to the Bondo resin in wood where the close-up became pixellated. It’s not the camera zooming in, maintaining focus but your post-editing on a fixed focal length filming. I guess the only solution would be to have a dedicated camera operator who was doing the zooming live and maintaining focus and depth of field. That would be very expensive I would imagine. I find it hard enough to get say a good close-up of a plant or little animal but doing it in video, well that’s a whole level more difficult.
What I do know is that other TH-cam presenters have got this facet licked and it may be good to chat to them to see how they go about maintaining a crisp image at any focal depth. Cheers.
Get new glasses and clean them with 40 grit paper every day and you will be singing Matt’s favorite song “ I can see clearly now that the rain is gone “
Nice video Matt, will you be able to post pictures of the finished product.
If you remind me in a month or so I'll post some photos on Pinterest and share the link? Thanks! Best, Matt
Hi Matt, I’m new to your channel and just found this video helpful for attaching wood shelves to a 3/4” square tubing framed liquor display that I’m building. That said, I’d like to ask your thoughts on another part of my project… I am using 16 ga mild steel sheets (hot rolled, I think) as a backsplash for my above referenced liquor display, and need to attach directly to bare SPF 2x4 framing. I finished said sheets to a high gloss antique “mercury” mirror look and want to find a way to cover or hide all attachment method(s) and seams. This is a commercial bar application, so I coated sheets with an oil based poly and I will have to thoroughly seal all seams in compliance with health code standards. Currently, my thought is to cut(rip) sheets to hide joints behind my shelves (1^1/2” total width of shelves), attach with wood screws close enough to edges to also hide behind shelves, and seal joints with silicone caulk. While this would hide my seams well enough, I don’t know how to get screw heads out of the way to make sure display sits flat against the wall. Not sure if I can countersink so close to edges or at all with metal this thin. I’m a woodworker gal, so my knowledge of metal and wood/metal combo is novice at best and I’m sure that that there are options that I don’t know to consider. Any advice that you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
It's hard to answer your question confidently without a complete understanding of the design/installation but because you mention bare 2x4 stud framing, my first reaction is to advise using something like contact cement to glue your steel sheet to a substrate like 1/2" OSB or MDF sheet, otherwise I think seams between studs would be a nightmare to seal and get to look right. In that case you could leave the sheet 3/8" short of the panel edges where screws or nails could hold everything in place, sealed with silicone caulk and hidden behind your 1-1/2" thick shelves. Or you can match edges of steel and substrate panels and CAREFULLY countersink for flathead screws that would hold steel to substrate to studs leaving only a metal to metal seam to seal.
There may well be a better design for the installation and fastening but that gets into the overall scope of the project... Good luck... sounds like an interesting project!
I'd like to see some metal work too. Great video.
Beautiful work as always, Matt.
Could I use this to fasten plywood to aluminum framing? I planning to build a casting deck on my 14 ft fishing boat.
May we know what this door is intended for? Very nice design and quite narrow: workshop/shed door?
The answer, a surprise, awaits you at the very end of the video...
@@NextLevelCarpentry I must have missed it, all I recall was this was for a client. I'll have to rewatch it.
@@ALAPINO it is at the end of the end of the end which many viewers don't stick around to see. I often slip some little thing at the very end of next level carpentry videos for a little extra entertainment value😁😎
@@NextLevelCarpentry Hahaha! Not quite sure how I missed that.
would this work with aluminum tubing as well?
I don't see why not. You might end up using a little wax on the screws so they don't 'get stuck' driving into aluminum. My guess is that it might take a smaller pilot hole because aluminum is softer too? Regardless, a little experimenting with scrap should address those issues and anything else that might be different.
Thanks. Re: the gauge of the steel squarish tubing you used to build the frame of that door... if it is 5/64", then it is ~equal to 1.9844 mm... (You arrived at 5.64mm). Just wondering... I hope this helps 👷
I think you are a real master... Today, i used GRK lag screws, following your advice within another video.
Hi John,
Your metric equivalent number is indeed accurate however I was just being silly with that figure... if you listen closely I said "5.64 milliminches" in an attempt to make light of the fact some viewers get worked up about lack of metric measurements in Next Level Carpentry videos. I've been tossing in other little quips like this in recent videos just for fun and it seems to be working. Here's another recent one if you're interested: th-cam.com/video/-ZgDRLM8DqM/w-d-xo.html
Glad you found GRK torx lags useful... those things are amazing! Thanks for watching and commenting too! 😎
Best, Matt
@@NextLevelCarpentry yes, you keep the presentation light and quick. It's important to encourage people who think woodworking that, with proper planning and the proper tools (though not expensive), they could build something that doesn't fall over 👷
Not trying to belabor the point but you have the gauge in millimeters ("mm) written over the video at 1:30 min from the beginning. Only us Hispanics would probably catch that 🙋
I've always loved the aesthetic of wood and steel together. What was the purpose/application of this steel-framed door?
Watch the video to the end of the end... 😉😁😎
@@NextLevelCarpentry Ahaha, yes I left too early..
Thanks!
Your Super Thanks is a nice gesture, Ruth K... and greatly appreciated!
Best,
Matt
@Next Level Carpentry do you have any suggestions to doing this for an exterior fence panel detail... cedar into steel?...
Pretty much exactly what you see in the video WT. Note: I'm convinced that stainless steel screws are key for non-streaking fasteners over the long term.
Best,
Matt
Epic.thank you
😂🤣😂 @1.26 "for those of you who live in the developed world" 😂🤣😂
I live in the uk so i really to question us being "developed" many times, but i digress. Amazingly i use metric for all my work so i don't get imperial fraction headaches🤕 but visualise and freehand measure/mark all my projects in imperial during the initial mental design stage.
Anyway another great video, glad i subbed after seeing the bunk bed through bar video.
I'm glad you subbed too... metric and all! 😉👍
In commercial buildings, for years I have seen wood base and trim attached to metal studs using those screws.
That application is probably what the screws were originally designed for... the difference here is the difference in thickness of steel studs at what, 22-26 gauge? vs steel tube at 13 gauge...
@@NextLevelCarpentry structural studs can be as large as 12 ga. We had to predrill all holes in the studs hanging cabinets. A real pain. Lots of guys use the screws with a drill bit on the end so it's a one shot deal. Sheetrock hangers used them.
Well Done!
I love when Americans include metric units
👍🏼
I like it a lot.
Dang! That's exactly what I was trying to make smh thank you
Fantastic! It's not necessarily an intuitive method but I think you'll be pleased at the results and amaze those who see your work!
@@NextLevelCarpentry Its good enough for me thanks so much again]
Have you thought about drilling a sunk hole for the head and tapping it with a bit of color matched wood filler to have an even more invisible look?
Not for an exterior project like this where ANY filler will fail in relatively short order...
@@NextLevelCarpentry Ah! Great point regarding exterior projects! Thanks for letting me know.
Nice trick. Love the dad joke on the whiteboard!
You caught that, eh, Erik? 😎
The way things are going we could all be using those again.
I poket it 2nd :-). tnx 4 videos! I love your twin brother :-).
Matt, I think you'd be the best one to ask about this. I was wondering if it would be possible to frame a house out of pallet wood that's been made into slabs and cut to what size you need. I figure it's probably just as strong or stronger than conventional lumber since it's layered. What do you think?
Possible? Sure. Practical? I seriously doubt it. Economically feasible/sensible? No way. It's generally true that 'layered' wood (think LVL's and gluelam beams) are stronger than conventional, careful production control standards/practices need to be followed for consistent, reliable results.
To make it strong/stronger would require properly engineered lamination with the right adhesive (like resourcinol glue?), etc, all of which go directly against practicality and economics.
Interesting proposition but likely polyanic IMHO Best, Matt
"live in the developed world". Lmao! Great video. Thanks for making and sharing this
Seemed like an appropriate sense of humor test for metric viewers in the audience...
Thank you for watching and commenting! Best, Matt
just blew my mind 😂
Awesome!
Does this work for softer metals, like sheet aluminum? Or would those screws just strip it right out?
Works fine in softer metal but not in harder types. With aluminum in particular you'll probably need a slightly smaller hole size and wax on screw threads might prevent screws from sticking and snapping when being driven.
God bless u my brooda😫
👍
If these boards are a single sheet, how do you fasten the sheet to the metal frame, with respect to thermal expansion/contraction?
I'm more concerned about wood movement on individual boards than thermally generated expansion/contraction from sheet goods or the frame unless the door was very large...
Beauty
That’s the only way I’ve ever done it had a customer build his whole house out of heavy gauge steel framing 4 stories of red oak crown base casing had to pre drill thousands of trim screws into steel
Wow
How are you going to keep that steel from rusing?
th-cam.com/video/OoicKizBKT0/w-d-xo.html
I would assume a fine thread screw would be best for this method?
Not necessarily... the GRK trim screws are more coarse than standard machine screw threads and work just fine in my experience. Might get into fine thread territory on thicker, harder steel though...
is it preferable to align all the screws on a straight line? If so how "wood" you do this? I'm assuming a chalk line would leave behind chalk.
Even though the screw heads are small I prefer to line 'em up. It's pretty easy to use a framing square or straightedge to line holes up or to put little pencil marks for screw locations. BTW I ended up getting the same torx drive trim screws in stainless steel... worked great and won't streak with rust over time. 😎
Hope you had a Merry Christmas and look forward to 2022!
Best,
Matt
@@NextLevelCarpentry would you advise ever adding putty to cover holes in cedar?
@@aaronandbethrodgers4472 Not for exterior use... I think you'd only postpone the inevitable of the putty failing/falling out over time leaving screw heads exposed in the end. If you wanted to have a no-fastener look I think large diameter screws with large threads driven in through the back might be the way to go. Lot more work for only a marginally better finished product IMHO...
I use those screws to install wood flooring right up against the wall with a 90 degree driver adapter.
How do you prevent the steel from rust?
Keep it dry. I used good rattle can spraypaint for this project and it works well. The next step is to consider powdercoating the steel. If neither of those are good enough your best bet is stainless steel or possibly aluminum but both are considerably more $$
Just wanted to pass on that I ordered my Rube like pliers from Menards. Thank you for the guidance
That's funny Roger... I think you'll have fun using them even if it means getting them out when regular pliers would get the job done... I smile just looking at those crazy things even if I'm not using 'em! 😁😎
@@NextLevelCarpentry I know what you mean but that one time that I need the extra 2” of reach in a tight spot I will always think about your video
@@MaddMaxxWoodWorks exactly! 😎
Do you have a video of making the steel door
Unfortunately, no. It would be a huge undertaking from a video production standpoint and, realistically, it would be a poor investment for a carpentry channel. Not that I wouldn't love to do it but I don't have the video production wherewithal for it, sorry. Thanks for watching and commenting though....
I did kind of the same thing when it comes to measurements and predrilling but I don't like the screws showing so I drilled the holes in the metal the same size as the screws and after drilling the holes in the metal I drilled the wood on from the.metal side using flat head screws so it's not only flat on the inside and outside but the the screws don't show and no one can unscrew the wood and come in and I think that's more important than how it looks.
Fastener choice/appearance is ultimately a matter of personal preference vs cost and, for this project, visibility of those tiny screw heads was the practical choice...
Thanks
Thanks for watching and commenting David... hope you're doing well these days! Best, Matt
@@NextLevelCarpentry
Great. How about a mailbox and post project ... maybe in all wood?
@@freightshayker Coincidentally I have just such a project on my list but have yet to settle on a design I like enough to devote the time and energy to... stay tuned though! Best, Matt
@@NextLevelCarpentry
For your consideration ...
Addresses of Distinction video
th-cam.com/video/mVlqs17Z9lk/w-d-xo.html
I like the stepped feature with this post.
Not sure if these guys installed it so we'll. Seems lots of folks go down two feet deep. But I wonder if one needs to be below frost line for best results.
Thanks for all the vids. Peace
Thanks for the link David. I'm a bit fussy with some things and think most mailbox designs that are commercially made and available are a bit too 'formal' for my taste... looking for something modern/classy but not trendy or cheesy... more of a challenge than I expected but the right style/design will come along some day!
thumbs up
5/64" is a bit less than 2 millimetres (1.9844 exactly).
I came here to say that as well
This is another case of rounding error. 13 gage is actually 2.3 mm (he did say 5/64 +) But the 5.64 mm is totally wrong.
@@timpedzinski230 Yep, 13 ga is 3/32".
It appears to me that this thread is totally missing the point that those are erroneous measurements I mentioned in the video are meant to be a joke... 🤣
@@NextLevelCarpentry You're absolutely right. But you know - we Europeans have no sense of humour if it comes to our absolute, only and the best metric system.
This has to be the shortest video you have ever produced! I thought you where going to screw them on angle as if you were nailing flooring starting at the right side and working to the left. There is always more than one way to get a job done!🤣🛫
Milla minches!!!! 😆
I did this on my fence gate but they came out and the boards fell off any ideas
I didn't use GRX screws maybe thats the problem
cool