How Can A Wind Turbine Be Motionless?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ธ.ค. 2022
- Exploring How Can A Wind Turbine Be Motionless? Visit brilliant.org/undecided to sign up for free. And also, the first 200 people will get 20% off their annual premium membership. Wind generates enough energy to produce about 35 times more electricity than the entire planet could even use each day. It's free, clean, and renewable, so why don't we see more wind turbines used on rooftops? In a nutshell, it’s the blades. Small sizes and more moving parts means more complexity. But what if we could contain those moving parts in a way that makes for safer and more efficient wind turbines? Can the Aeromine make generating wind energy on rooftops a breeze?
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Is this an update of your video "The Future of Solid State Wind Energy - No More Blades" from a year ago? Are any of those projects still feasible?
This was invented by University of Michigan about 11 years ago here...
Except the design is used for under water in small creeks with low flow 🧠
Vortex Hydro Energy by University of Michigan (same concert except it's in water for small river and creek.. genius and untalked about)
How Dare a wind turbine be motionless.. would you please cover sterling engines and their uses .. thanks 😊
You mentioned a minimum wind speed but not a maximum wind, I assume because they didn't give you this information but in curious how this system would hold up to high winds. I live in the tropics so all building roofs are flat. This would be good to combine with the solar panels to generate power at night.
The power nest is exactly what I've been dreaming of for years. Some kind of a hybrid system of wind and solar working in conjunction with each other. And from some of the examples in the video, they look potentially easy to install on buildings.
Now comes the next part of my dream: somehow combining power nest technology with green roof infrastructures.
That feels like an either-or scenario, unfortunately. We can only hope that the powernest proves to be efficient enough so that we don't have to fill every roof with them.
You dont need a green roof if you have the power nest. Unless all you want is looks. The main thing for a green roof is to bring down roof top temps. The power nest will do that.
Hmm, why do you want a green roof with a power nest? If you want to have plants to reduce your CO2 footprint I would recommend vertical gardens. Look at Vincent Callebaut's architecture and buildings as an example. His Coral Reef houses combined with a power nest is certainly something that is not so far off what we know today.
This is me agreeing with other commenters; as a green roof would probably mess with wind power efficiency, vertical green space (especially on high rises) seems to be the best option, and would almost definitely increase rent price on the floors that have it.
Biggest limitation is efficient water gathering. It would probably have to be from the roof top and used for non-edible plants. I would assume in most places only the south side, and only a portion of the floors, would have this.
There's about two practical applications: mental wellbeing of residents/workers, and reducing the worst reflective areas of sunlight
I wish I could make a sketch to attach here. I'll just try to put it into words though. Here's a way you could try that.
Power nest works by funneling wind, right? And Aeromine works by using wind with airfoils to generate low pressure zones that suck air through a turbine, right? So if you pair them together, 1 funnel for air capture with 1 Aeromine for air outlet, and loop them into a ducted air turbine below them, you could get significant increases while keeping the horizontal footprint low. You could almost stack them, so that the air expelled goes upwards instead of through the entire rooftop. Then if you set up your hydroponic / aquaponic gardens on the roof you can use solar arrays as partial shade (spacing properly to let enough sun through).
As a Dutch person I think you pronounced Eindhoven very well👍
Phew! I'm so bad with names (no matter the language).
For real, Utrecht and haasje over too!
He butchered Bahstin and New Yorwk though…
He also butchered Wyandotte, Michigan. 🤣Prounced like WHY-ANN-DOT.
@@user-nz6ug4ru8f no. And there are moving parts. They are just enclosed (and thus harder to service) rather than exposed.
It's neat to hear you mention the air flow keeping the solar panels cool.
When I was in grad school, there was a guest presenter who had done extensive research into temperature dependance of solar panel efficiency and then using that data to produce more accurate maps of globally available solar energy.
I believe the Powernest is a better idea simply because of different directions the winds can come from. The new wind invention captures wind coming up a building wall from a fixed position, but if the wind comes from behind it, equals no capture and no energy. The Powernest also performs a cooling of the solar panels, adding longer life to the panels. My money is on the Powernest. Great vlog of information as always.
Powernest is a low efficiency system as more than half the wind is bypassed. Any solar panel mounting that is raised gives wind cooling.
I really like the way you said multiple sources can be the real solution. Most of the time people try to be the only saviour and in fact, it is our ability to work together and combine the ideas that make the solution work so well. Really cool video.
The solution of renewable/low carbon power was always going to be a mix - you are 100% on that. Renewables WILL work and WILL make a difference (already are) and it will be a giant, glorious, bubbling stew of technologies and designs.
Seems to me that once the concept is proven with the 'motionless' turbines, the next challenge is to make the vanes pivotal to optimize the windflow, and you could increase the generation. But, one step at a time.
that's how the motionless turbines in the turbosails on the vessel Alcyone worked so yeah, they might as well rip off the whole concept 👍
That would be easy.
Just place the vane structure ,as it is now, on a turntable bearing.
The turbine in the base can remain fixed and a gland in the bearing can prevent pressure loss.
Don't even need the gland. Mount the turbine to the bottom of the airfoil support plate, and let all of it turn to track the wind. There still needs to be a way to get the electricity from the turbine to the building, but that's mostly a solved problem in electrical engineering - brushes, spiral cables, etc.
This is such an obvious improvement to their system, I'm honestly surprised the Aeromine people haven't thought of it already. Maybe they think such a rotational system would be too costly or too maintenance-prone? With a spinning turbine in there already, I think the "no maintenance required" ship has already sailed. And sure, the forces on the airfoils are much larger than the forces on the shaft of the turbine. But if we made rotating HAWTs work in the 1800s with those windmills that pumped water in fields and were subject to the harsh winds, rain and snow out on the prairie...
@@SaltyPuglord cheaper to use one bearing than a bearing and slip rings or some other method to affect a moving electrical joint
@@paulg3336 There's a cost to an airtight gland, too. The big question is, which is less expensive to buy... and to maintain.
You started off talking about no moving parts, but then quietly morphed that to no EXPOSED moving parts.
Like Dyson fanless fan
Every time he mentioned no moving parts, he suggested that what the manufacturer claims. He even put finger quotes around it once.
0:20 he starts off the video saying “contain those moving parts”
He was fairly clear that there’s still moving parts
I used a 1/3 hp 110 v motor for my first experiment. I attached two large (100 lb lift capacity magnets) to one side of a six inch circular by 1/4" plate of aluminum and bolted it to the motor shaft, magnets facing outward away from the motor. It was bolted down securely. I then took my 1/2" copper coil and placed it beside the magnets at a safe 1/2" and turned on the motor. In a very small amount of time the copper coil was glowing red so I quickly shut off the power. I was so impressed I went and purchased a solar panel of (33volts LR4-60HPH 355-385M) this with its 12v computerized controller should be more than enough power to operate my next experiment. I also bought a lithium iron phosphate 12v battery to start my project. My intention is to operate a 12v motor instead of 110v and build an overflow system to catch the expanding water in the coil witch will also have two one way valves to help with circulation, and a radiator to dissipate the so needed heat in my winter home.
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It's nice to see a new spin on windmills.
"New spin" ... intentional or not, I love it.
Windmills are “mills” they mill grain
The way the aeromine works is actually the same way people in hot climates used to build buildings long before air conditioning. By taking advantage of the pressure differential, fresh air could be consistently brought in.
With that said, I think the power nest is the more likely solution to become widespread.
you can also utilize the empty floors of skyscrapers that let wind pass through them to put in the same type of wind turbines to generate more energy as well
The method of measuring differential pressure is also how some racers used to do low-budget aerodynamic refinement of their car. Run a hose to the area that they wanted to investigate and hook it up to a low air pressure gauge, get a buddy and a clipboard and go for a drive. Take notes of weather conditions, speed, and test pressures, and you start to build a model of the aerodynamic characteristics of your car at different speeds. Simple.
Try doing the same thing with a building. This is part of Building Information Management. You don't even have to do anything permanent to the building. Some arduino weather stations around the property, connected to your wifi and dumping data would let you build a differential pressure map around the house in different seasons. If you have a single turbine with gates and plumbing to these places, you can automate optimum returns actively. Be worth it to create both high and low pressure zones to take advantage of the effect.
@@HeavyMetalorRockfan9 100%
@@HeavyMetalorRockfan9I feel like sky scapers are so far up high with their own little unique chaotic weather systems.
I mean I've seen videos of simulations on what is happening especially in a place with multiple sky scrapers, and it is wild from floor to floor building to building.
Sky scrapers may not have issues generating wind speed at all is what I am saying. Controlling it definitely would be the issue.
With that said using those empty maintenence floors is a good idea. It would have to be a robust system being able to capture all the chaotic air, and controlling the flow in times of strong wind.
I just watched a documentary about this technology being created a decade ago and set aside. I thought that it would be perfect for roof tops as soon as I saw it. Super cool stuff.
Thanks for great video! One note on 7:19 the flow does not increase when you restrict the water in a hose, it is the velocity that increases. Flow actually decreases due to the added pressure drop.
I heard him say velocity increases
Well, to get technical, he didn't say the flow increases, he said the flow speeds up. In other words, whatever AMOUNT of flow there is, it's velocity increases. But, I agree that saying the flow's (or water's) VELOCITY increases would've been better (more accurate, and easier to interpret).
@@mikek0135 Velocity is dependant on direction as well. 'Speed' is the correct term. Wind is a velocity because you say 20kmh E. Speed + direction.
I think it's better to explain it as the structure increases the volume of wind a small turbine can collect.
As a layman I love it when people get into the nitty gritty because ultimately that understanding actually makes a difference at some point. For me though, especially with the visual aid of the garden hose, it was crystal clear what he was trying to explain: wind speeds up before it reaches the turbine hence the increase in energy creation. So for the general understanding, for me it was sufficient and very effective.
Keep up the good work!
A 5kW turbine has around 15 square metres of swept area. These have nowhere near that area plus they are wind direction dependent and they redirect the wind. So their capacity factor must be much less than the 35% typical of turbines. That said, reducing noise and vibration is critical for attaching wind generators to residential or commercial buildings. It would be nice to see some real numbers for this technology.
We'll have to see how these pilot tests play out for final numbers.
Hi John the wind turbine in PowerNEST has a swept area of 12.6m2 and a capacity of 3kW per turbine. The entrance of each Venturi funnel is around 30m2. There is certainly always room for improvement and that's where IBIS Power is already working on.
The powernest concept, as shown, is clearly a nonstarter. Way too much infrastructure vs. output. A successful unit would be a lot larger, taller, feature one central turbine, and would sit in a venturi or between 2 lens shapes, covered with solar I suppose.
The AeroMine concept is interesting, but it's also a nonstarter unless it's made to be dynamically directional and it must be a lot higher and a lot larger. Unless the turbine is right in the base below the foils, forget it due to laminar flow losses in the piping.
It's worrisome to think people would pay for these naive executions of maybe good concepts... the same people are voting on 'green energy' and making all of us pay for it. And endure blackouts because of it. For the record, I have always been hopeful about renewable energy.
I thought from the footage of the nests that those spun in the "egg beaters", which made them change direction. Or did I see that wrong? They are stationary INSIDE those? I figured they spun inside making it like a car in a constant corner which helped the turbine inside. These are an interesting concept for sure, especially from a maintenance aspect. Looking forward to seeing how it develops.
@@alexandersuma Can you tell us at what wind speed do they achieve 3kW ?
The power nests look very promising.
I'd definitely have questions about just wind power on roofs since that seems very limited to flat rooftops of large buildings to make an sense, but the mix of solar and wind makes is super smart since it improves the efficiency of both, while making use of the entire space available and as a bonus it doesn't look as ugly as the other rooftop wind turbines shown in the video. It's definitely also limited to taller buildings so probably mainly cities and factory buildings (and possibly car parks) but we need anything that can help bring more renewables in the mix, especially if it can be used right where it's produced.
I almost entirely agree, but don't rule out lower level wind entirely - with the right location even low buildings can get very reliably windswept, sometimes aided by the layout of the roads and buildings creating that wind tunnel effect. The practically and safety of lower level wind is still perhaps in doubt - when its 50 meters up doesn't matter if its noisy nobody will hear it.
@@foldionepapyrus3441 very good point
@@foldionepapyrus3441 My two story house is about 30 feet from my neighbor's two story house. The two big boxes create a funnel effect (venturi) between them. While wind here in Austin TX is not as regular and constant as it is in the northern and western parts of the state, there is often a prevailing breeze which gets amplified by the two structures. Something like Aeromine or Joe Doucet's Wind Wall might be a good add-on to any renewable power system I install. I think the Aeromine concept has room to be configured in many different ways and should allow options for improving its appearance.
I think everything is going to be a mix in this field - there is no one single solution. The power nest seems a bit of genius and should find widespread applications as it becomes more well known. In the hands of an architec it should be able to be added to exisitng structures without taking a huge esthetic penalty.
Those things shown in the video just look so extremly ugly. Can't imagine having something like that on small houses in my neighbourhood on the rooftops ^^'
Estimated cost of 12.000$ is also a little bit expensive.
another upside is that in most places, when the sun gets weaker during winter the winds get stronger. So the power generation could be more balanced year round.
I also currently have the most faith in vertical axis wind turbines compared to both horizontal or stationary types.
The combo of solar and wind looks very promising. Solar generation during the day and vertical wind turbines to run at night seems like a "win-win" solution.
Yeah they combine nicely together.
Wind tends to be strongest in the morning and evening and weakest during middle of the day. At night it is slightly stronger vs day IIRC.
So solar creates most of energy during 4-6 hours in the middle of the day, strong wind satisfies demand during morning and evening, and during the night demand is very low anyways, so a bit of wind generation is likely more than enough
it sounds wind-wind :)
@Radoslav Kuba: 🤦♂️😄
@@radoslavkuba4900 You almost made me swallow a gum congratulations
Just takes up sooo much space. We used to have an awesome green park on top of the parking deck near me now its ugly mess of solar panels.
Good idea. The main problem is the storage of electric power. In relevant quantities at acceptable prices. You don‘t want be dependent on wind regarding access to electricity.
Those power nests are so cool; I love that the system is complementary, which each mechanism boosting the effectiveness of the other
Thanks! Great to read your comment and support
Are roofs meanwhile equipped with enough units?
And are there independent tests of how much electricity was generated at which investment costs? I am sceptical. I've seen too many small wind turbines come and go…
I did a lot of work on a similar system about 10 years ago (CFD simulations and models) but could never get a decent output. It used a very similar process. Let's hope they are more successful than we were.
This is my concern as well. Solid state wine isn’t a new concept. It seems to have not been viable to date.
@@mimandshaindy4906 Wine Gums? On a more serious note, I forgot to mention that we could get reasonable outputs if they were roof mounted horizontally on the apex). They do mention roof mounting, so perhaps this is a condition of their figures.
What were the issues?
@@silo3com Low power and variations in wind direction. We did try a Torus configuration (a bit of imagination required without drawings) to access wind from any direction, but this gave even lower power.
@@rogerwilson6367 is there a way to channel the wind between the buildings themselves to generate power?
Wind energy without exposed blades is such a cool idea to me. I remember a few years ago when the vortex bladeless turbines went kinda viral.
Utilizing the Venturi effect and using solrized inlet louvers is a great idea. I’m looking forward to homes all having these types of innovations in order to be able to function as their own islands and for people to be able to increase their independence once again.
If you use bernoulli equation to determine the lift, you would notice there won't be much lift.
Agreed, compressible flow theory would be better applied considering there is a turbine but it might be ok to still first pass debunk this bs
First Ziroth, then Just Have a Think, and now this. I feel blessed to have such high quality channels delivering their different takes on the same very promising new tech in such a short time.
Thanks for your kind words!
The channels are high quality, for sure, but giving this unlikely idea so much attention (probably at their specific request because they're looking for investors) makes a little bit of a dent in that quality.
As a good comment under the video of Just Have a Think said "I wish them luck but this is a well trodden path to failure."
I really like these channels content but it's cleat they chose to submit to either the hype or sponsorship because these are not motionless. They say so themselves and it's in the images too. The moving parts are hidden. They could be more efficient because of their winged design, but that is not being addressed or verified.
Suspicious.
It's good company to be in.
Already made a comment this below, but Aeromine made no overture to me to make this video. I have no connection to them whatsoever.
I own a company called 4sphere, a wind/water turbine without blades. No Wake Turbulence, no rf signals, no bird kills and more, BUT it works off Drag instead of lift. Because of that we left it on the back burner because of our other companies amazing success.
These turbines are like other inventions in wind energy that use funnels and airfoils, they are very very inefficient in turbulent winds. The turbulence makes the airfoil vibrates and will produce a lot of stress on the airfoils. For a wind turbine to be efficient, it needs high wind speed and these wind speeds are all in a turbulent flow.
Believe me, I already built one and it doesn't work. These designs only work in laminar flow situations.
I've been researching and working in the energy industry for 9 years already and I'm a long time follower. More power to your channel. 😊
I work about 200 meters from 'Haasje over' where the PowerNest is placed. It is silent and produces a lot of energy for the building beneath. However, due to the building's power usage, they actually reduce the Nest's output by as much as 50% most of the time. It's been suggested to just put mining rigs on top of the building if the power can't be fed back in the net.
the city doesnt allow it to be fed back into the grid? thats quite insane. there are ways to disconnect the system in case the lines go down to keep repair workers safe. The only reason to make such a decision is if the power companies are blocking it.
Another system i like is one where they place spaced out solar panels about 10-13 feet or about 3-4 meters above certain farm land. in many cases crops get too much sun and having intermittent shade from solar panels helps them grow and because of less heat directly on them, less water evaporates so they also use less water to grow. Because of the height of the solar panels, farming equipment can easily fit underneath them.
Why you need these turbines on the Roof, too far from any parks in the North Sea ?
my suggestion for the region is, find local solutions if you can, make a hoover dam whatever, be creative !
The roof, let's see in 10 years ! Eindhoven !
Too many physics/engineering errors, is this an AD?
It's nice to see the Darrieus VAWT designs coming back into play, I think they were overlooked early on because of the lateral forces on the lower bearing in large scale installations. Years ago I visited one in Quebec that was more of a demonstration of the concept and saw their shortcomings there, it was just too big! So properly scaled, I could see these turbines combined with a Savonius (starter) a really efficient power generation device.
The VAWTs have a number of advantages IMO. Yes I know their overall efficiency is lower but they also can be sited more densely. Also because the mast only needs to support the loads of the top bearing assembly and its associated loads the overall mass of the foundation block can be lower. Another factor in their favor is the generator is pretty much at ground level easing servicing by maintenance personnel.
Even though this is a vertical style could it be designed with same blades and used horizontally? that way both ends support and bear the weight of the blades instead of putting most of the weight on the bottom bearing. It would mean putting the generator on the same level as the turbine. Also is there a way to control the maximum speed as sometimes the wind where I live can vary greatly in speed and direction. A normal wind turbine can control the speed by using computer, anemometer and vane and turn the blades away from the wind at an angle determined by the computer to capture maximum effect without burning up the generator. The concepts appear very feasible except for controlling the air space around the buildings from blockage of new construction of taller buildings. And it takes away the argument of NIMBY (Not In My BackYard) that cattle farmers have a problem with the noise from a wind turbine.
@@johnsnyder9033 They've tried the horizontal methodology in ridge or rooftop designs, but the merit of the Darrieus VAWT is to be able to capture wind from all directions without yaw control. Regarding speed, they use mechanical or passive braking or both, same as HAWTs. Sometimes they are so big they need to be "nudged" to start up.. that is why you see the hybrids with a Savonious turbine.
Happy you mentioned Savonius! Many times "the best" stays in the way for "good enough under these circumstances" - like independence, stability, viability, environmental friendliness, are also important values, not only highest gain from lowest investment. User value can be more important than capital investment. For the investor it might be a minor problem that production stops for a time as long as the production on a yearly base is profitable, and more profitable than other investment options in what ever. For user the utility is in the practical and stable production, that is needed and desired.
PowerNest is a well thought combined solution. Even the wind turbines are equiped with 2x Savonius rotors to help starting at low wind speeds (4x would be still better). The worrying feature is high speed wind tolerance. The forces during storms up to 50 m/s wind speeds can rip off first the panels and then the wind blades out from the roof. The panels form a really large "aeroplane wing" , because air flow enters under the panels and vortexis enchance forces. The joints to the roof and the internal strength have to be 4x secured during the whole operational period, more than 20 years, taking into consideration rusting and structural fatigues.
Choked flow is what you're describing at 7:13. Choked flow is a part of the venturi effect but its not the same thing.
Not specifically chocked flow as it's unlikely the flow at the nozzle sonic in the hose example or the product he is shilling
With some architectural consideration and thoughtful build these nests could be incorporated to one or two sides of the roof to take advantage of the wind. Certain roofing surfaces such as TPO would provide even more wind force to aid the convection process. This is a good call Matt.
Matt, can you cover any advancements in this space for residential applications? Your videos are always engaging and informative - thank you!
Thanks for this. It is a good thing that people are still working on things to make it better. Ive said this for years. If we just covered all the roofs with solar it would make a difference.
I am a contractor that goes in and out of that BASF facility. Didn't know about this until recently. Going to see if I can go check the unit out and get some info on how it's working out.
Matt: it's hard to decide which of your videos is more interesting and useful. Thanks for your effort in researching and production. My preferred subject is alternative energy, but I have seen some others and all of them are very interesting.
Beware. Matt researches almost nothing. He reports purely on what these random research company’s say, with zero research. There’s a reason 99% of the stuff he’s reported on has not and will not ever develop.
It’s a video channel that is basically a list of an engineers fever dreams
It's hard to decide which one of his videos is more stupid and malicious.
Matt, I remember reading a neat article in the past in one of the "Popular Science/Mechanics" mags. It was a bladeless design for use in cities. It looked like a Nautilus shell sitting on the wide end. It was also aesthetically pleasing to look at. No birds will fly into it and it won't spontaneously burst into flame.
I remember that design... What happened to it??
What about snow?
Gerald Bock: This is a fascinating design. I am a building manager in San Francisco (And my last name is also Bock. Not too common) and I agree. The vertical turbine is much more aesthetically pleasing. I have reached out to the company to see if they might be interested in installing a test module here.
What "spontaneously burst's into flame"?
@@mustang6599 The wind turbines as currently designed will catch on fire if the decouple doesn't work. They are designed to operate within certain wind speeds. My comment was intended to be humour but it is true. I have a colleague who builds and repairs these critters.
The benefits are definitely there once perfected like generating electricity at night especially on a windy nights
I love this power Nest idea and it does look from the design to be very visible to birds so they won't go near it it reflects off of the light
It does make sense to capture the air and concentrate it in a more easily usable way since that's what we do with most other energy harvesting systems. But I think they need to find a way to get the turbine mounted directly in the base of this thing so it's all one unit and won't have to move large volumes of air through pipes where it will quickly lose energy from friction. Also, making the whole thing able to pivot into the wind's direction would make them way more versatile in where they can be placed
SUCH COOL TECH !
WISH I COULD GET MY HANDS ON ONE FOR TESTING!
AS ALWAYS THANKS MATT AND THE TEAM FOR YET ANOTHER INFORMATIVE VID!!
I think this is fantastic with perfect potential to be used and scaled anywhere.
Really appreciate your videos, all the updates on new technology, research and new ideas.
At different points in this video, the Aeromine system is described as having “no visible moving parts”, or similar phrasing.
At 3:56 in the video, a diagram shows air being drawn past a “fully enclosed wind turbine”, “at ground level”, through a set of pipes. It would seem as though potentially lengthy pipes would create drag and inefficiency.
At 6:00, the video of an actual installation (BASF) looks upward toward the Aeromine, and what appears to be a wind turbine can be seen beneath the central column, between the airfoils. It somewhat resembles the “roof vent” seen on many residential roofs to pull air from the attic. That arrangement would seem to be more efficient.
It would be interesting to know what kind of turbine or generator were being used.
Long ago, I became interested in “ducted fans”, which are usually employed on a horizontal axis, such as an aircraft engine and propeller, or HAWT. Allegedly, their use on wind turbines was limited to fairly small ones.
For several years, I have been thinking about a VAWT design employing a pair of vertical airfoils to funnel air to the “downwind” side of the VAWT, while shielding the “upwind” side. That should both increase velocity and reduce drag.
The Aeromine concept is fundamentally different, but the physical structure is still remarkably similar. I would think a VAWT placed between and slightly behind the two airfoils would be significantly larger and more efficient than the small “hidden” turbine.
I personally feel the power nest design has more potential on the face of it than the other but I look forward to a future where seeing either on rooftops is the norm.
I like the idea of a power nest - I think that have multiple power generation sources is a good idea, along with sufficient storage to maintain power for short periods when the generation sources, i.e.: wind and sun, are absent, which happens periodically at certain times of the year. I also like the idea of the Aeromine, which whilst not necessarily targeted at the domestic market could indeed be implemented by community collectives to provide alternative power to a number of houses. I would be interested to find out how they leverage their output, and if it does in fact match their claims. Thanks for a really interesting video and for sharing you thoughts with us 👍🙂
It is a cool adorable addition. Large wind turbines are a better investment of capital and energy.
It could also make companies seem more interested in getting them because they can produce there own electricity or even give electricity back too the grid which could have its own benefits.
A combination of both wind and solar could be fantastic. Whereas solar can obviously only be used during daylight hours, there is no such limitation to wind power
The Aeromine concept looked promising. I am in Hong Kong with high rise buildings, and very strong seasonal typhoon. Solar roof have been promoted, but it causes roof leaks which became very costly to repair. I am looking for a solution that takes up a very small footprint yet can generate power year round. Vertical blade turbines looked promising, but they can become very large. I looked at your analysis of aeromine and it sounded like a true possibility.
@Blind Freddy It does not promote leaking, but when a roof leaks, solar panels covering them makes it very difficult to repair. Just an added problem where Aeromine sitting on a small footprint will make it a lot easier in terms of building maintenance.
Interesting topic. I like the pop up about the guidelines in regards to having a efficient and civil conversation. Great work!
👍
This looks very promising, and very cool. But what I want to see is a system that uses both power nests AND Aeromines combined. Since the Aeromine works by sucking air with the low pressure caused by the air foils, the power nests work by funneling it. They're complementary. I bet you could get significant increases in efficiency, especially at low wind speeds, because you'd be funneling air into a wind tunnel that also has a low pressure zone at the outlet to help speed the air up. Imagine building something like the passive air towers used in some Middle Eastern cities, with a funnel down to a wind tunnel with a turbine in it that feeds out into the Aeromine installation.... I bet it would be amazing!
Thank you for explaining technical features in a lucid and practical way. I helped install many wind turbines in the Tehachapi desert, ca. I also love birds which these turbines destroy quite frequently. Currently gathering materials for a small savonius rotor which does not harm birds, will not over rev and can use wind from any direction, eliminating need for extra components. Have you any plans for videos on this efficient rotor system?
Birds killed by wind turbines are only a few hundred thousand, while cats kill an estimated 2 billion and buildings around 500 million.
Also, wouldn’t that idea have low power output due to smaller swept area?
Beautifully done
Thank you
There's a reason you have over a million subscribers. Another educational, interesting, factual and positive message. Thanks!
👍 Glad you liked it!
@@UndecidedMF I rather enjoyed it too. I do wish that aerodynamics wasn't so complicated. For instance, lift is generated from an airfoil by the Bernoulli effect as well as the coanda effect. The Bernoulli effect is really the same thing as the Venturi effect. I do know that it's complicated and not what this video was even about so, going into detail isn't desirable. At the same time, you didn't even mention the coanda effect and you said that the Bernoulli effect and the Venturi effect are different. 🤷
Anyways, thanks for the hard work I know you put into these topics.
From little things bigger things grow compare todays cars to that of 100 years ago as an example,we keep evolving the tech gets better one day perfectjon will arrive.
I second that, really good content.
He plays fast and loose with his figures. Several times he misrepresents, such as comparing the per megawatt cost of a fully installed motionless turbine system with the cost of just solar panels themselves.
The power nests look like such a great idea. They look pretty cool too. I'd love to see that adopted everywhere
The embodiments shown in this video have less than no chance of success, it's clear.
That PowerNest is a brilliant idea because not only does it optimally combine wind and solar PV but also that the PV panels get cooled down, increasing their efficiency and lifespans. Tech Ingredients YT channel did a video on PV panel cooling recently where he used powered biscuit fans on the rear, but this is even better because the cooling action is 100% free. Now I KNOW what I want for Christmas! A PowerNest.
Excellent and very informative - thank you!
In the Midwest, we get a lot of wind in the winter, but in random directions. Other than that issue, the nest idea looks great. I have a great couple of roofs that could use a nest system.
I think the nest idea works in any direction. The side all have that effect thing that increases the velocity. It’s the motionless turbines that are direction dependent.
Great video, Matt! Pro tip: We here in Michigan pronounce Wyandotte as "wine-dot".
I can't say I'm convinced.
Looks like alot of materials in these tiny structures.
I expect many have short life spans.
I'm concerned how they cope in extreme weather.
I'm concerned by a need for energy storage and the inefficiency of batteries.
This all just seems like a great way to earn contracts for short term gain.
The green facade continues I suppose.
I'd love to see some tests on buildings that aren't higher than their neighbors, or possibly utilizing service floors rather than roofs. For practical deployment in a city, you can't assume you control the development of neighboring plots. And besides - as anyone who's walked down a street full of skyscrapers can tell you - when you have a long street of flat surfaces channelling the air, the windspeed is strong regardless of height.
Hi Matt,
Congratulations on a great show. Do you have any plans to do an episode on wave power. I read a few years ago that this would be the future for many nations energy needs?
Thanks for your video. Very informative and very encouraging to see what is happening in that field. (I thought about building my own small Savonius blade turbine in the '80s but did not have the time. I am a licensed NYS Industrial Arts teacher, retired so I just wish our Elementary and High School school systems had age-adjusted (age-appropriate) fun practical "engineering" courses and labs that allowed students to design, experiment, collaborate, and make a small home system, and for the younger kids just little demonstration units made with straws, white glue, and real simple concept models. The schools abandoned the I. A. curriculum a long time ago and I know many frustrated teachers now called Technology Teachers who feel the students don't actually get to start, build, and complete a project. Keyboarding Skills... hmm. 😞 Class time from subjects that ruminate about the past and other political agenda driven programs could be better spent on moving forward and exciting our kids about what we can do to help our environmental and energy future. . I think young intelligent forward looking minds would prefer doing something useful and constructive and thrive in that environment. BTW, you won't believe this so pls Fact Check this, there is no National Standard for Science education in the USA! That is why the average citizen can't even understand the Science section of the New York Times. STEM educated citizens will be the catalyst to adoption of renewable energy.
Thanks for your help today
Looks interesting. For the Aeromine, maybe the direction issue could be solved by onboard software that would rotate the position of the turbine based on wind direction.
It doesn't even need anything fancy like that. It just needs a base that can rotate. The wind foils will automatically align it with the wind direction if they are behind the center of rotation.
I remain skeptical. Isee a lot of hype about Aeromine (and similar small turbines) but no hard numbers can be found.
You refer to physics. It’s also physics that dictates that the power that can be captured by wind turbines is related to the swept surface that is exposed to wind. Speeding up the flow does not change the amount of energy contained in that flow.
Add to that the fixed position and the turbulence that is usually found at such rooftop edges…
There are not even figures about the size on their website. Which would allow a serious estimate of the yield for different wind speeds.
But by all appearances, it's just a couple of squaremeters wind swept area.
You won't get 5 kW from that, except at very high wind.
And you also won't get 14.3 MWh/a from it at fairly common conditions.
These are in the pilot testing phase, so we'll have to wait and see how this turns out.
@@UndecidedMF there have been so many of those small rooftop turbines that never got off the ground…. Ridgeblade, Airturb, Windwall and however many others. The business case is just not good enough. All they ever do is throw that max power figure around that the generator could deliver under optimal conditions, but which is never achieved in real situations. I bet that this one will be no different.
Agreed stinks of bs and marketing spins. In addition accelerating the flow with a ventury isn't taking any work out of the flow so adds nothing unless there is entrainment of additional mass flow. Don't think Matt actually knows much or any aerodynamic/fluid mechanics
Great info Matt, thank you! Has anyone you know of tried combining solar PV with wind, where the turbine is turned using the convection of the air heated by the solar PV panels for residential use? Maybe glass duct above and plastic or metal duct below the panel array to trap and guide the heated air up to a ducted turbine?
Exactly what I have been thinking for a long time, it will happen, the Nest will develop that way utilizing every bit of useable energy, it just has too.
I like it. It’s very windy where I live. Like, until the summer heat waves started even the warmest days were always requiring a sweater because out of the wind it might be 20c (about room temp) but the cold wind made it feel much colder. We still have the wind most days but the heat is too oppressive now on the days we don’t
I enjoy technology diversification like this. Getting to a cleaner future won’t be through one be all end all technology, but many ambitious ideas being deployed to solve a problem. Thanks for another great video.
I've been planning solar on my roof, but I would love to get a home base roof-top capable turbine that doesn't live on top of a pole to offset my solar. I live in Canada, so Solar isn't always the best option, but where I live, there is literally 3-5 days/yr where there isn't at least a 10km/hr breeze. It makes total sense to me.
I would love to see one for home use. And, I had to smile on how you pronounced Wyandotte - WHY AN DOT - it took me a second to figure out which city in Michigan you were talking about :) Also, Detroit Metro Airport has some wind turbines they use to (I think) power some parking structure lights and maybe more. It's neat to see them.
Forget the roofs, stick these up and down on corners of buildings in big cities. Take advantage of those incredible natural valleys that act as wind tunnels
Thank you Matt.
Thanks for the video, Matt. I'm curious about a company called Harmony Turbines. The design looks interesting, they claim to have a more efficient revolutionary small scale residential wind turbine.
This is very interesting 😊Thanks for sharing!
Thank you! You broden our horizons! 👍❤️🙏 I often watch your viedos repeatedly. Every time, I found myself understand a little more.
It sounds like the wind energy is better than solar. Is the motionless wind turbine available in the market?
Always grateful for the interesting content here, and the dissection of that content. Another thought about AeroMine.... that concept would work far better if it was configured in 2 wings in an elevated horizontal position, not vertical. This is because there is virtually no wind near the ground. The increase in power climbs significantly with elevation, to the point it can't be ignored. Even better would be a ring, not 2 parallel wings. The internal turbine would have to be as close as possible to the vacuum generation. Finally.... output would increase if the vacuum generator were rotating to gain apparent air speed.... as in a propeller!
About 60 years ago there actually WAS such a turbine.... "In 1947, the French engineer Jean-Edouard Andreau proposed a vacuum wind turbine......" A very interesting read
Why can't the "wings" mount on a rotating base that always points in to the wind?
@@devastator39 this is what I'm describing. I didn't make that clear enough.
The AeroMine will do so much better on a tower, facing the wind, with an annular ring creating suction... so much better that it obliterates any justification for having it on the ground. Look up the Andreau Turbine, the performance specs are really impressive and I find those specs plausible. The AeroMine as it stands today only tells us the company has more believers than actual potential.
@@someotherdude the aeromine turbines aren't on the ground. They're on the edge of s rooftop.
@@EctoMorpheus might as well be on the ground, since air often hits the face of a building and wants to pass well above the edge of the rooftop. Locating a turbine at the edge of a building assures that you'll harvest almost no wind, and what you do get will be turbulent. And you're missing far higher velocities not far above. Ever wonder why no commercial turbines are mounted on roof edges?
That's really interesting, so the low pressure air basically sucks air out of the tubes to spin the turbine at the bottom. This would be something neat to experiment with. One of the big advantages is that the parts that need maintenance are more easily accessible.
Oh I see, thanks for this, I was confused after watching the video
@@jama211 Yeah I feel they kind of glossed over that fact. I was trying to figure out too how it works but when they showed the diagram it made more sense. It's almost a reverse of how those dyson "bladeless" fans work.
I love that vague explanation "as much as 16 solar panels". Those could also be 16 calculator solar cells.
The beauty of roof top electricity generation is that most of the transmissions costs/losses are eliminated . . . and that's huge. This should help offset other cost or inefficiencies, when looking at the overall big picture.
The Aeromine looks like an interesting concept. I wonder how feasible it would be to try to make something similar as a DIY project.
As it seems to be a design that only works in very specific locations really I don't think it will make a great DIY project - you can build something like that relatively easily but the odds that you have a good location to get the right airflow for it to work well are pretty low. Also don't think it will really scale that well - as the pipes to the turbine gets smaller the airflow resistance increases and the cost for the materials will relatively go up - can't use a 0.001mm wall thickness pipe, even if it will take the pressure as its not structurally sound enough.
I’m not a sparky but it seems the most basic form would be a DC fan that you mount somewhere and use as a generator. From there, enclose it in varying dimension ductwork. Attached to a wind vane. Is the airfoil itself necessary?
@@-Stop-it the airfoil is what manipulates the air pressure. The difference in pressure makes the turbines spin, versus wind driving the turbine blades
@Unicorn Trooper the whole thing is pointlessly over complicated. You would generate more energy by making a hoop that has the same diameter as that things height, putting a large rotar in the hoop, and covering both openings with chicken wire. That thing is a fancy looking, inefficient waste of money.
This Aeromine integrated with solar panels seems to be an absolute genius idea and I could seriously envision this as a great opportunity for buildings, where the proper conditions exist, to apply clean energy strategies into their designs. I currently have solar panels on my house as well as a ridge vent on the roof. If there’s a way that they could employ a ridge vent as a small scale version of the Aeromine system I would love to have them install such a system on my house.
An important issue is how high above the house the aeromine needs to be to be efficient - so depends on how "leafy" your neighbourhood is, height of other buildings, turbulence due to buildings and trees, etc. And of course, higher up = higher wind speed. Further, if limited to your ridge vent, then the house orientation comes into play. These are just a couple reasons why they're targeting larger buildings with flat roofs: cleaner air flow (less turbulence).
Yeah, when he went over the design of the aeronest I imagined that future humans might talk about such an efficient structure like how we talk about Roman aquaducts; ingenious, especially for their time, using design principles we can still learn from.
@@Direblade11 I think he biggest advantage will be that it produces a more constant flow of energy because it is less common to have no wind and no sun at the same time.
This windmill will produce power 80-90% of day, you just need a little backup battery, no need for solar.
Its not, unless you home is as or close to as tall as windmills are. There is a reason why windmills are tall.
Great video, Matt...👍
i LIVE NEXT DOOR TO THE ORANGE BUILDING HERE IN EINDHOVEN AND JUST AFTER THEY FINISHED, THAT POWERNEST WAS STILL ON THE GROUND LOOKING IMPRESSIVE. NOW I KNOW WHAT IT ACTUALLY IS, THANKS. SORRY FOR THE CAPS, I STARTED THIS WAY, DONT WANT TO RETYPE.
'No exposed moving parts' doesn't mean 'motionless'. The Aeromine has a hidden ducted wind turbine, as you show in 3:53, which is far from motionless. As you say, air will in fact be accelerated by funneling it through a narrow duct (Venturi effect), probably the reason why it can work at lower wind speed. The ducted turbine will therefore spin faster, adding vibration and wear- and- tear in an inaccessible place. And with the air, the Venturi effect will pull and accelerate dust, pollen, and insects through the turbine duct, sandblasting the turbine and its bearings. Undecided indeed.
Why does the turbine have to be in an inaccessible place? It’s just ducting like an AC vent. You can put an access hatch right below it for maintenance.
Also, I’m sure there’s a filtration system for the air that’s being used to spin the blades.
If there is an access hatch and a filter, why are they not mentioned? Is the hatch accessible from the roof or do you need a crane / platform to reach it? A filter needs regular replacement, and it slows flow rate (the more so the better it filters). Not saying it's hopeless but there are at least 2 issues I can spot that the video choses to ignore - so I suspect there may be more. I remain undecided.
@@Leberteich Being that this is in the very early stages of development, I am certain that they will address those issues as the development comes along. They may even be able to use the suction to their advantage. like, negative pressure in a clean room or something. It will be interesting to see where this leads in the future for sure.
Your videos give me so much hope, so well made, well researched and sincere!! We’re in a tricky spot as a species but I am excited for the future!
Very intersting. I appreciate the simlicity
another great video. thank you.
The powernest does seem like a really solid solution to me because it really benefits from each other so it is a win-win.
Why not build in the ability for the wind apparatus to rotate into the wind direction as to keep the efficiency?
This can be easily achieved by having a wind direction monitor attached to a motor unit to adjust the stationary turbine in small movements.
Easier achieved by putting it on a pivot and a simple tail fin on it. They figured out how to rotate windmills hundreds of years ago.
As a Dutchman I can compliment you: you pronounced Utrecht really well! 🙂
I absolutely love this - jammed full of engineers producing new engineering and innovation, if we would add up all the wasted cash spent ungluing zealots from the M25 and "awareness campaigns" and applied it to these operations we'd probably have this type of configuration just about everywhere by now. I sincerely hope their expectations are met and claims come to fruition.
Excellent video too Mr Ferrell, thank you again.
I'm certainly not a fan of these gluing actions or throwing food at artwork, but it's pretty ridiculous to try and make a point that it is a significant waste of resources. The inherent claims that that type of protest does no good is based on emotion, with zero reference to evidence. History is full of disruptive actions that directed attention at a chosen problem that was ultimately addressed. Underestimating the value of air time for a given subject is a mistake.
@@zweigackroyd7301 utter nonsense - these "protests" are themselves rooted in emotional hysteria and are solely aimed at social status climbing and standing attainment within their local social cliques, their "message" is merely an excuse to get famous within their own subcultures. Impost and cost are actually very big problems, in the UK they went so far as to block ambulances and I believe there may have been a fatality resulting from one. The disruption that they cause so someone can "claim" to care does NOTHING but alienate the populace from the stated cause; it doesn't really matter of course because their pseudo-cause is merely an excuse for attention seeking. Claiming the "air time" is valuable - do you support terrorist actions as well? Plenty of air time there... perhaps the terror campaigns of "The Weather Underground" in the 1970s achieved the air time you think so valuable? Their bombing campaign not only wholly alienated an already soft and malleable population but everything they did failed spectacularly. If you had to google who or what they were - as most people do - this not only shows how they failed to share any "message" but how they are remembered for only harm and violence today.
But as for the hypocrital nature of today's "look at me shouting" crowd, let's drill down to one example. Actress Emma Thompson flew from LA to London to dance in front of traffic for "Extinction Rebellion". Her business class flights there and back (excluding her local travel, lodging, etc) produced more carbon emissions than I do cumulatively for every single thing I do for a period of FOUR YEARS. The trope of the private-jet-set telling the guy in the hatchback he's killing the planet scales all the way up and down the social strata because like the morons gluing themselves to the M25 it has no real relationship to the claimed desired outcome. As for costs - it's of course extremely difficult to add up the economic impost of holding up entire chunks of a country (engines idling while it happens) for so many years now but it's an entirely reasonable thing to believe that this would head well into nine figures - or more - when you consider the urban disruption around the world alone. Imagine what engineers could do with that sort of funding or the political attention they could get for achievements in the field... Imagine SMRs being quickly rolled into place or WAMSR type reactors burning nuclear waste products to kill two birds with one stone. Imagine projects like those being fast tracked and funded, we could shut down not just carbon emission plants but sharply increase energy security especially given the trajectory towards war we all seem to be on now.
But back to the gimmicky "protests" what about the human cost? The poor people blocked from funerals, hospitals, their jobs, the sheer human cost... All so someone can shatter any support that existed for a claimed cause so they can "look cool". Understand that environmental issues will NEVER be solved by Drama and Dance majors - actual solutions are purely the domain of engineers like the ones in this video.
@@davocc2405 I would note these protests have certainly got your attention, and I presume you will have read about it in news media that is read by millions. I rest my case. Your highly emotional response doesn't exactly support your contention.
@@zweigackroyd7301 Someone having their head blown off with a shotgun on a crowded train would also gain my attention but it neither means I'm going to respect their actions nor what they wanted to achieve from it.
It's not a "highly emotional response" in any way, shape or form - you're attempting to deride someone who dare disagree with you by claiming they're acting in an emotional manner but I've clearly outlined WHY I think this entire manner of "protest" is entirely wrong and how it works only to harm any case related to environmental protection and improvement. You're trying to fight the person not argue the point - while I do appreciate that you really don't have anything to come back with or any point to rest on perhaps doing some modicum of research of your own may help you formulate a better - or even simply existent - argument and who knows, you may even learn something in the process! Double bonus score there.
I agree the PowerNest looks very promising. I live in Rotterdam, in a 23 story building, and we're contemplating solarpanels. I did some research into PowerNest, and I can't seem to get concrete results, just projections and estimates. Another thing is that a PowerNest module is ridiculously expensive and most probably only really feasable on a new building. During my research, I came across a lot of sceptisism about the smaller wind turbines. Some experts claim they can't really produce the power that's promised. That's why I would like to hear from PowerNest. Let them show some real world data from the buildings they've installed these things on. As soon as you have some real data, you can start to compare the costs vs gains.
That's the thing, there is no real data. It's just like solar roads, lot's of gullible people being misled with a 'green energy' promise. Very unfortunate Matt Ferr was not able to add any criticism. What an incredibly biased video.
First saw this tech on a video about Jay Leno's car collection garage, where they talked about it. THIS is the solution. It doesn't have to face any direction and works great in most areas.
The old wooden corn windmills used to have a small lateral rotor that would catch lateral wind and turn the smock into the wind.
Interestinger and interestinger as Alice might have said. The solar panels on roofs in such high latitudes as Eindhoven seem a little flat, but I love the ideas like the nest. Living in an area of pretty reliable wind (SW coast of S Africa) and with a virtually non functioning national grid, I am always looking for wind possibilities to supplement the shorter winter hours of the sun on our panels. 🤔
Thanks Nicolas, the solar panels in eindhoven are directed to the East and West to distribute the power generation during the day (morning/evening) instead of having the 12PM peak of the South direction. Their angle is 15 degrees which is sufficient to capture the sun and keep them clean by offwashing rain.
@@alexandersuma very interesting. I have tried to get our solar guys to do something similar to catch the winter sun earlier, as our panels all currently face NW and are inclined at 45degrees. They claim there is no benefit in placing some on the SE roof. What you say may be useful in convincing them to reconsider the problem. I’m not tech savvy though.🤔
Great video, I like the big ol dutch type windmill with 60ft diameter that can run on very low winds (if perfectly balanced), the top turret can have a tail so its always aligned into the wind ! Slow moving is alot Safer and Quieter, and the sailcloth vanes (or lattice light wood vanes) makes it work where others fail. Braking can be by making the vanes "Feather into the wind or pull in sail cloth or using telescoping vanes that minimize surface area in typhoon/hurricane winds (use all 3 methods), other methods are the good old flying balls that apply brakes when they spin too fast. Tell me what you think, thanks. InventPeaceNotWar
Subscribed - Thanks for Your effort. I find this nest very promissing. It looks ok, If silent - why not! We need clean energy in cities. If every new high building had a nest - great contribution to the grid.
This stuff is awesome! I love it, but its all so limited without proper energy storage.
I don't understand why the aeromine shouldnt turn with the wind direction. I think this could be achieved incredibly easily by installing it on a rotating platform and placing a vertical fin on the leeward side. It would use no energy and probably increase the efficiency and range of use-cases dramatically.
The old corn windmills had lateral rotors that would screw the smock around to face into the wind.
That would make it a lot more expensive. And there is no way a single vertical fin will be able to provide enough force to move the entire platform, it looks like it weights several tons.
Brilliant!! Great to heard about various ways wind may get into commercial and residential use in a hybrid model with solar! Also great to have the nest really using the cooling effect!!
Also those wind turbines that are modelled after racing cars, nice thinking to whoever thought of that!
Thanks a lot Moony!
More aesthetically pleasing for sure!
Awesome. Thankyou
Aeromine looks much like a scam to me.
No hard facts (not even about size), but unrealistic claims regarding costs and electricity production.
I heard about 25% efficiency, but with the proper wind direction of course. Even at a site with a dominant wind direction, the overall efficiency will be much lower.
Probably comparable to a Savonius-type wind turbine of the same size.
Let's be optimistic and say 20%. And a size of 9 m² wind swept area (3x3 m). You would need a wind speed of 16.4 m/s (59 km/h, 37 mph) to get 5 kW from a turbine of this size and this efficiency. This would be a very high wind speed for nominal power. And a poor electricity production at fairly normal sites.