Just because "A king should be willing to die for his people" doesn't mean he has to throw himself on a spear like an idiot. The Alliance aren't the Burning Legion. Varian died for the world, Rastakhan died for his pride.
@Hk Dk wrong. He died for his empire. Zandalar ruled by the blood trolls would be very bad. The Alliance wrote their own death sentence by putting in motions the events that lead to Queen Taligis installation. The Queen is far superior as a great ruler who will quickly overshadow her father. Jaina Proudmoore is just that. Nothing more than proud of making bold moves, quick the leave, quick to talk shit, stir drama. I look forward to the day her life ends. King Verian died honorably. .
The Alliance should have just blown up the navy and left. Pushing into the city cost them an army, Mekkatorque, and the Abyssal Scepter, and in return they swapped an old king for a new (arguably more competent) queen and made some powerful loa very angry at them.
One thing that people dont give blizz enough credit for is the increase in quality and quantity of the voice acting. There is just SO MUCH awesome voice clips in this expansion.
Their Character writing as a whole is pretty good. Bwonsambdi is handsdown one of the most fun characters in WoW. His voice, his dialogue and his appearance just fits extremly well together.
So Jaina can raise the ship from the sea, make it fly all the way to the Undercity and magically power the cannons to blast all the walls.....but here she has trouble holding up a shield against the trolls attacks.....uh huh
And she can freeze blight from an entire battlefield, shield and teleport every alliance leader out to her ship but gets tired from an arcane bubble. ok
Jaina staff is probably the most powerful mage weapon to ever exist currently. It is a artifact in its own rate on par with the ones mages got in Legion but the 3 in legion got 'broken' absorbing corruption.
I don't understand how attacking the Zandalar was supposed to destabilized relations with the Horde.... if anything you are giving them a common foe....
Quest just says to destroy the ships because they will be used again against ally. Not that killing troll will make them not go horde, just make them a deadweight
Yeah, thats what I am thinking as well. Just bad writing I guess. And it would be even easier to just say: we attack them to cripple the fleet that could best our fleet. At the same time, you should be aware of the fact that attacking them and killing the king might piss them off really bad. And sitting on an island with a nation who might have the support of several Loa is scary... I mean, lets be honest: if he actually wanted to, Bwonsamdi could propably kill most of the alliance army on his own...
Just realized they’re gonna introduce mechagnomes as a playable allied race by using Mekkatorques survival as the story. He will survive by turning into a mechagnome. And yep nobbel just said it as I was typing this out.
I agree. I hope we see more of the Darkfallen, as they’ve recently taken a liking to drinking gnome blood. But more likely it will be those mutant aquatic goblins.
gotta keep those reskins as 'new races' going to cash in on those sweet sweet 25-30 USD services that are done within mere seconds and no stress for the servers whatsoever
Bruh we all knew Talanji was going to take over anyway. I thought that after Zul stabbed Rastakhan he would die and Talanji would become Queen and join the horde.
Damn shame too, he really turned out to be a cool character with a lot of potential, but nope guess we just gotta accept Princess No-Personality as the Zandalari leader now.
Yea i miss him too,but can we have him in guestline that we see him as a ghost like we see Vol'jin spirit in the guestline that you, Vol'jin, Talanji and Baine are trying to find who give Vol'jin the vision to name Sylvanas warchief.
Alliance lures army out, attacks civilian population and slays Rhastakan "Lady Admiral was as gallant as they come, offering them every chance to back down" u wot
You sure you're not being sliiiiiightly biased there? The only civilians that were killed were the ones that attacked the Alliance as they went through, which makes them no longer civilians. And Genn literally tells Rastakhan to surrender directly before Rastakhan insults everyone who isn't a Zandalari.
@@flamingjockeys I think you might be forgetting how an exiled king just rolled up blasting their naval forces and carving a path through the city itself (living quarters and trade areas) to then demand, with no proof of authority beyond the forces he commanded to invade with, to bend the knee.... or die. Now the most gallant admiral's other version of events was not about allowing them to flee but to lure them out into open water and murder them. But for reasons the dev team decided that the factions don't get to see the same storyline and words them with very different dialogue at times.
The Alliance objective was to destroy the Zandalari fleet and force Rastakhan to surrender or to capture him as a hostage. If they were able to do either, they could force the Zandalari to expell the Horde from Zandalar, depriving the Horde of a critical naval port which would be perfect to reinforce Horde efforts on the Eastern Kingdoms, and depriving the Horde of a sizable new army to join the war. In the scheme of the battle itself, if they had managed to force Rastakhan to surrender, the Horde army would have been trapped on Zandalar outnumbered and without escape, without Zandalari support and with Dazar'alor held by the Alliance. The critical failure of the Alliance was killing Rastakhan, because all they have done was to solidify Talanji's Alliance with the Horde, with no hope of holding the city. In my opinion, this battle was in fact a strategic loss and tactical pyrrhic victory for the Alliance. Ironically, their deception in Nazmir was too successful, with the Horde taking Zandalar's best ships up to Nazmir when the Alliance launched their attack. The Alliance sacrificed too much in Nazmir, and the main combined Zandalari-Horde army didn't actually suffer much casualties when they returned to Dazar'alor. The Alliance lost quite a sizable chunk of their rear guard during their retreat and would have lost a lot more if not for Jaina Proudmoore hard carrying the Alliance retreat. And even so, they still lost quite a few ships. In this battle, the Alliance sacrificed an entire army in Nazmir, blitzed the skeleton crew of Dazar'alor's garrison while the main navy and army were away, and then took far heavier than expected casualties and losses of veteran 7th Legion during their retreat. The Horde's main forces and the Zandalari army were relatively unscathed and intact despite losing King Rastakhan who, lets be honest, was already on the way out. Rokhan's forces in Nazmir were defeated but not decimated, and Dazar'alor's garrison was blitzed but remained a fighting force throughout the battle. This wasn't a decisive Alliance victory..This was Pearl Harbour..it pushed the momentum in the Alliance's favour but it failed to eliminated the Horde's capabilities to wage war.
Zandalari lost over half their fleet in the bombing. Not to mention Zandalari ships would be garbage in ship to ship combat especially compared to Kul Tiran ships that have sea magic all through them. The characters on both sides say it clearly: the alliance is winning. Thats why Sylvanas falls back on another evil scheme that Baine apparently ruined anyway.
True. This technically an Alliance victory but it didn't do anything substantive for the war effort. 1.) The Horde still has a pressence on Zandalar, despite the losses inflicted on then by the Alliance invasion. 2.) The Zandalari formally joined the Horde, multiplying the Alliance's enemies and the Horde's military capabilities. 3.) King Rastakan's death didn't stop the Zandalari. It only caused Princess Talanji, arguably a better leader, to take the throne. 4.) The Alliance expended a HUGE amount of resources to launch this assault, which weakens them strategically. 5.) The Alliance lost a HUGE number of troops and may even lose Mechatorque himself. In conclusion, I would argue that the HORDE won the battle because the Alliance didn't really accomplish anything for their sacrifice.
@@grandoldpodcast She wouldn't have been able to, 1. his body already deteriorated during his last moments and 2. his soul is firmly in the hands of Bwonsamdi, I guess you could ress his body as a ghoul but I doubt it would do any good
It hurts to hear a few of the comments made by some of the Alliance, Genn and Mekkatorque for example. Alliance locks Talanji up in Stormwind, Horde breaks her out and she's appreciative, but apprehensive of it. Rastakhan makes a deal with Bwomsamdi only to save his people. Pricey, but he didnt do it "power for power's sake." Even though raising the dead is Bwomsandi's power, Genn says the Zandalari deserve what they get' suffice to say the only time Rastakhan utilizes it is to DEFEND HIS HOME. Rastakhan willing to sacrifice himself for his people in his fight, only to be looked down on for "not surrendering," even though the Alliance wiped out half of their population by that point. Not trying to take away all the messed up things the Horde did leading up to this moment. Likewise, the characters don't know what WE know. All the while though, it's behavior and attitudes like this that push the outsiders together - the creation of The Horde.
Yea that's exactly my issue. I feel like the writers have made Sylvanas out to be this maniacal villain willing to do anything to achieve her goals, but it's not much different than what the alliance have been doing especially to people not initially involved in the Horde vs Alliance conflicts. The Alliance spurred a lot of this on throughout history and they act surprised by increased retaliations. First there was the warmonger Garrosh who retaliated against them with extreme actions, next it was Sylvanas, now Talanji's gonna do something and also be scapegoated as a villain despite them invading her home and killing her father.
@@HoboJoe10000 That's always been the Alliance's greatest flaw; for all their talk about honor, nobility, and justice; they can be quite xenophobic and arrogant.
Krovgor Warhawk considering the horde is a construct of the Orcs brought to this world to conquer it, after destroying their own world I might add, by agents of the burning legion. Anything the alliance would do to purge the horde from its world would be justified. Or are you saying if some Alien race came to earth with the intent of taking it over, enslaving it’s people, and taking all the resources we humans should just bow down? While the Orcs are no longer under the effects of the demon blood they drank on draenor, they have not proven to be able to settle for just their given land. I do understand this is a storyline in a game and needs to create conflict, it is why people say the horde is basically evil and the alliance good, notwithstanding individual members of each faction.
@@bhzikerI'm not saying that the Horde is without flaws, I just wanted to say that the Alliance has it's share of flaws. Personally I don't see the factions as good or evil, just different shades of guilt.
Ever since I saw the first "gorilla warfare" pasta in youtube comments I've always wanted to use this: not only Alliance hit the Horde with guerilla tactics but they also them with actual gorilla tactics
I absolutely *loved* this raid. The content of this expansion has so far mostly felt like prep-work, but now the "Battle for Azeroth" has finally actually begun. My only real criticism has to fall on the half-assed way they implemented Jaina as a bossfight. I mean, she faced off against the people who are referred to on a regular basis as the mightiest champions the Horde have to offer yet sho got away pretty much completely unscathed. Granted, she is *extremely* powerful, but she's still only one person. It feels like she was included as a boss just as a "wouldn't it be cool if you fought Jaina" type scenario but with there being no real consequences for her, why have it be Jaina in the first place? At the very least, I'd like to have seen her be crippled in some way (now there's a line you don't wanna say without context :P) but she wasn't even hospitalised.
@@onlycorndog6322 Well...Christie Golden is writing the story and her favourite characters are Anduin and Jaina. So yeah...none of those two are going to die.
Both narrators, Otoye for Horde and Tandred for Alliance, are unrreliable in order to make their side look better Otoye tells the Horde that Genn wanted Rastakhan to kneel and Talanji as a prisoner when he said nothing of the sort Tandred tells the Alliance that Jaina was noble and tried to avoid conflict when in reality she was shown to be sadistic
If there’s anything we learned from the alliance’s attack, it’s that next time we should inspect every inch of our ships so they don’t get blown up again, there are plenty of heroes crazy enough to do that for us.
I hope you'll see this and reply Nobbel but do you have any more information on the imprisonment of talanji at the start of all this like why she was captured in the first place? Because as I see it the alliance committed an act of war against the zandalari first as at the time they were neutral and not allied with the horde yet
Talanji was out to seek help from the Horde. Being that they are Zandalari, the Alliance have every right to imprison them and kill them if they wanted to. Like another comment posted, Zul's actions in both Cata and Mop give the Alliance all the right in the world to detain them. But being that they are the Alliance they spared their lives.
@@thefacelessone5591 What does that have to do with anything? Did the Alliance know that? Did you or I know that in cata and mop? Remember that the Night Elves know the Troll history better than most and they know of the ways of the Zandalari. For all we know, Anduin was probably waiting to hear from Tyrande and Malfurion before deciding what to do with Talanji. But since they were both still recovering from the World Tree burning they had more important things to attend to than to council the "boy King" and teach his history.
Heroes of the Horde can slay N'zoth but can't kill Jaina Proudmoore. She has to be a Nathrezim or Demon of some sort. Like why doesn't she just kill N'zoth or something? She's literally more powerful than an Old God.
for a "severely" wounded Jaina Proudmoore she stands, talks and reason quite lively. Oh, right, she's alliance, ofc she's invulnerable - how could i forget.
Gnome king: possible dies You: alliance leaders are invulnerable! Malfurion could tear Sylvanas apart back in ashenvale but he just blinded her...because of reasons? Main characters don't just die like that but I agress it is a bad writing.
gnome king didn't die, he just froze himself kinda like magni did he'll probably come back in a few expansions as a new gnome just like Magni did Rastakhan ain't coming back though
Very even handed and morally grey story telling, the incompotent tree burning, war crime committing and divided horde againt the pure, perfect, multiple times victorious and united Alliance. So beautiful and complex /s
I am getting increasingly sick of you people, calling everything (Tree was evil, yes) the Horde does wrong and cruel and unreasonable, when that's not what's going on. And even sicker of you worthless filth ignoring everything the Alliance is doing that isn't even close to morally good, always justifying themselves with "the Horde does worse" either have consistent morals or throw them in the trash YOU FUCKING PISS ME OFF.
@@varnisa The tree burning wasn't evil as much as it was retarded. A single night elf talked back to Sylvanas and she threw a fit. Sylvanas will act like a idiot when provoked. Which will likely be her downfall.
The Troll Champion of Light says "Light guide me ... to de ... Other Side" and because of Blizzcon this year we know The Other Side is Bwonsomdi's Pocket Dimension in the Shadowlands so I'm going to say that the Boss is a paladin of Bownsomdi.
I find Genn having huge amount of double standards when so coldly saying Rastakhan was a cassualty of war, but at the same reacting so emotionally to Varians and his sons death. They both were casualties of the war so how he reacted to and said Rastakhan chose his fate same could be said about both of them so he shouldn't react emotionally Varians or his sons death.
Basic human emotions 101: The closer they are too us the more we care. It is easy to call some troll king he doesnt care for a cassualty of war. It is hard to call your own child or best friend a cassualty of war. Also both those wars where unprovoked. King Rastakhan knew that letting the horde stay would make him a target as the horde was already at war with the alliance. He isnt that stupid(it is why he is dragging his feet in joining the horde. Would you want to get your people involved in there wars?) He atleast had a choice not to get involved into the war at all.
@@malaficus Yeah I get its basic human emotions, but you can't use the excuse that the was only casualties of war, if you can't take the same excuse as its double standards at its highest. Also Varian died because Mathoas shaw failed to do his job and got captured before the events at the broken shore so Genn should be mad at him for it, not sylvanas. Also Gurubashi, Amani and sandfury tribes were at the zuldazar for years and they were at war with the alliance and the horde and letting them stay didn't make them at target, so why would the horde then? Secondly Alliance forced Rastakhans hand by capturing and imprisoning Zul and Talanji. Actually no he didn't have a choice Alliance captured their major political figures for no reason and sent an navy to zandalari waters and had troops in Talanji's rebuke area of zuldazar. From Rastakhans PoV alliance were out to get him.
@@malaficus Nearly every respetacble leader in humans history has shown that they know letting their blind emotions dominate them is stupid and know that acting hypocritically even if they lose many people they love only causes misfortune. So why can't genn act like a proper ruler?
@@johannessimola1615 Knowing and doing are two different things. Our own history is full of pridefull leaders who allow there country to be ruined for pride alone. As for why genn cant act like a proper ruler? He is the only alliance leader who remotely does. There is a reason so many want him has high king. He threats his enemies as enemies, Care's for his people and honor his debts. But blizzard has shown time and again to have no concept on anything remotely normal human behavior. I remember several thousent of topic's complaining on how anduin is to soft, tyrande was reduced to a thropy wife the gnomes didnt do anything, velen was kinda there but forgettable. Jania turns her point of view every five min. Genn is the most love alliance charater because he is the only one with a personality.
Well...Christie Golden is writing the story now. Who are her favorite characters? Anduin and Jaina. Guess which characters got an immense plotarmor and massive power-ups...
Well thats the thing, I don't think the horde should have revenge really, but I do think the alliance should have more bad guys for the horde to kill so they can be the good guys every once in a while since the horde has routinely played the bad guy at this point.
I want Shaw. He’s done shady shit in the past and I wish they had a new Garathos that was xenophobic to match. Something to stain the Alliance in the open and not just their recent past.
Predictions Derek will attempt to kill jaina Kathrine will sacrifice her life to protcc her Jaina be even more mad Talanji vs jaina will be super interesting
I agree on the Talanji vs Jaina thing. In one corner, we have a super powerful mage who was once so openminded and idealistic, who was quickly twisted to hating everyone who had anything to do with Theremore's destruction. Talanji was the same. Perhaps a bit more jaded to the alliance, but she wasnt bloodthirsty by any means. Perfect illustration of the vicious cycle the Alliance and the Horde are locked in. Proudmore made another Theremore.
@@aerieleah533 You are blind to the facts but it is ok it suits your wants. Jaina was not "quickly twisted". You should go read up on previous lore and expansions and even Warcraft. Jaina has been fighting for peace for years and years only to have the Horde repeatedly ruin those chances.
I can see Derek being the reason why the Alliance accept undead, they were already willing to accept them back in before Sylvanas killed her own people. I would not be surprised if Blizzard end up splitting both factions and ending up with 3. Each faction for a Windrunner sister.
I do like how our visit to alternate Draenor actually DID impact some things (since the Mag'har come from nearly 30 years after the time we were there - even though it wasn't that long ago for us). We apparently taught the Mag'har how to be classes like monks. Also, for Zandalari paladins, it doesn't matter if Rezan is gone now. They might've thought they were getting their power from Rezan, but that's not how the Light works. Even after Rezan was gone, a Zandalari paladin could continue to wield the light as long as they continued to believe in it.
Imprisoned her because she was traveling with known super villain Zul. Destroyed their capital because they allowed the horde to use it as a military staging point.
@@Moadar they still attacked civilians and peaceful archaeologists. The Alliance is JUST as bad as the Horde, if not worse given their history. The whole Defias Brotherhood storyline still paints The Alliance as scum, just to start from Vanilla. Culling of Dalaran is another thing. Attack on Undercity in Wrath. There are PLENTY of cases where the Alliance, just like the Horde, went too far. It's funny how people either take one extreme stance or the other, even when it comes to a video game.
@@MrMhtmht Thrall is, apparently, making a comeback, though. Hopefully this'll herald in a new time for the Horde. One where childish writers don't mess up the characters in the game.
Jaina now rejects the idea of pressing the attack at a time when the Zandalari Empire is weak? So now she is not full of vengeance? Last expansion she was ready to go full genocide on the Horde. Did something happen to her during BfA that gave her a change in heart? Or is this just the amateur inconsistency of characters and lore in this expansion?
@SamTheWayne and pretty soon blizzard is going to have jaina lose her mother too because why shouldn't they just shovel more shit into her life specifically.
Here's the thing about that. She's not restraining her attack out of courtesy or sympathy to the enemy. She's doing it to avoid resembling them. So any morality that can come from her decision is completely lost.
????? So do y’all have such short memory that you don’t remember the whole Jaina thing in Kul Tiras? Or is this some other Jaina? I KNOW y’all can’t be this dumb to forget why she’s calmed down.
@SamTheWayneNotice how when she was trapped in... "the void i guess?", she confronted all of her regrets, and none of the regrets were towards the horde? I find that fishy, as if it was intentional on the part of the void creatures tormenting her.
Yes an alliance attack will surely destabilize relations between horde and zandalari....didn't twilight's hammer have a similar plan that actually worked? sad that a group of fanatical lunatics have better strategies than the alliance.
Again. The whole point was never to weaken their relation. The whole point was to take them out of the war. The alliance want the Zandalari navy to be gone. That is their target. They hold talanji hostage to make sure Zandalari won't join the Horde.
Good God BFA's storytelling is absolutely atrocious. I'm sorry you have to endure this, Nobbel. Horde literally isn't allowed anything good at this point. The entire faction's storytelling has been poison for years. Mekkatorque will be 100% perfectly fine before the end of BFA, Jaina was 'gravely wounded' but the next time she's seen she basically acts like she just climbed a few steep flights of stairs. Meanwhile the Horde is still saddled with Arthas + Tits for a leader, Rastakhan is dead, Princess Mary Sue is now Queen Mary Sue and the Bwonsamdi angle will probably be dropped similar to Stormheim because reasons. Oh, and Baine is still a simpering bitch and Saurfang has gone full Eitrigg and is off hiding in a hut in Swamp of Sorrows. YAY FOR MORALLY GRAY.
"Muh Teldrassil" First off: Undercity. Second off, literally the least used Alliance city. Exodar had more consistent activity. I bet you couldn't name 3 people that lived in Darnassus in the last 14 years that weren't Tyrande, Malfurion and Fandral Staghelm without looking up an NPC list. Meanwhile, Rastakhan is canonically killed by an Alliance player raid. A Horde Allied Racial Leader is killed so he can be replaced by his daughter because he was the only Allied Racial Leader that wasn't female. In exchange we "hurt" Mekkatorque (He'll be back before BFA is over, stronger than ever and with zero residual damage from this fight) and despite the story claiming we "heavily wounded" Jaina, she basically acts like she got a few hairs knocked slightly out of place when she's seen 5 minutes later talking to Anduin. Bitch doesn't even sound lightly winded despite having just fought up to 25 Horde elites that were responsible for numerous victories over massive Legion armies and leaders up to and including Kil'jaeden and Argus. Plus we're being set up for Siege of Orgrimmar 2.0 with Sylvanas playing Garrosh and Nathanos playing Nazgrim. Meaning an Alliance Player raid will now canonically have TWO KILLS of Horde Warchiefs under their belt.
Mary sue? All female leaders have fighted lot of battles and trainded longs years to gain those powers. Cant handle a strong female characther? These characthers are nothing like that Stupid ho Rey from star wars.
@@Stuff59042 sylvanas aint gonna die. I bet she leave the horde for the greater good. She knows whats luring in the void. Dead is the true enemy of the void. Thats why she want so much dead.
I think the Loa that the Zandalari Prelates worship now is Akunda. The buff you get from his altar is called Holystorm, and the proc deals Holystorm damage, so he uses a combination of nature and holy magic.
Bain : Perhaps we can open negotiations? Sylvanas : The Alliance slays the leader of Zandalari , And you speak of negotiation? Me : Well , all of this will never happened if you don't burn that goddamn tree!!!
@@donjezza10 this is where our good friends Derek would help and save Azeroth at killing 2 of the warmonger leaders of that faction and once Sylvannas gets out of the way the peace negotiations can begin.
@@donjezza10 Genn can change his mind if u read before the storm. jaina is no longer a angel of revenge I think she just want the war to end. Literally the only problem in the horde are the undead buddies Nathanos and Sylvanas. They need to die cuz an undead horde is a shitty horde
@@takerustuff5233 lol read before the storm more attentively. Genn wanted this war. Fucking stump only accelerated events, the alliance would have struck one way or another, if you carefully read the book it will be clear
@@takerustuff5233 In before the storm, Genn was the only one encouraging a retaliation against the Horde because he flat out lied to Anduin about how Sylvanas wanted to break the Alliance up, something that was never even mentioned or even hinted at beforehand. Also in Before the Storm, Sylvanas talks about the fact that the attack in Stormhiem was illegal and states that Genn will clearly go to any lengths to get his revenge.
Sometimes this game is really really scary. To think of the lengths some people will go to get what they want. No wonder Orcs just wanna fight and win honorably. Most of everyone else schemes so deeply it borders on insane, if not vile.
I had a feeling early on that we would eventually get 3 factions or something similar. The Tauren would join up with the Night Elves and any other race based on nature etc. (Draenai,Worgen) and be Nature's Grasp. The orcs/trolls/vulpera,undead etc would join up as the Outsiders The Humans, dwarves, gnomes etc would be the Titanic Alliance Any other race could be neutral like the Pandaren, Goblins etc. Sadly this will not be the case though.
And once again, the Horde starts a war against the Alliance, only to get soundly beat. They have a long line of losses, which makes me wonder, why would they even attempt to fight the Alliance knowing they'll just lose, again.
Man they completely don't give a fuck about any pre-existing lore. So much of this is a contradiction to stuff from other expansions, especially the resurrection at the end.
She fought countless deamons int the nether, but when we fought against their Overlord Sargeras she shines with brilliant apsences. in my eyes she is only a offended shirker with too much Power.
Using loved ones to kill their own family, insisting on completely wiping out a people. Never mind the Lich King, what is the difference between Sylvanas and Kiljaedan now? The Horde continues to look more and more like the Legion each day.
Alliance just destroyed Zandalari fleet just so the Horde could not have them, they killed the Zandalari king who has been alive for over 200 years just because of their hatered for the Horde. It's war, stop whining.
I still think that this refers more to Azeroth or maybe Alleria. There's been no Void relations with any of the Zandalari aside from G'huun, and Talanji never showed any signs of allying with him.
the team writing for the story right now isnt the same from the RTS days, and they made a lot of oopsies when they took over, because they wanted to make warcraft their own instead of keeping the same spirit. But yea, blademasters were specifically an orc thing from the old horde.
Blademaster is a vague term. He's been around a lot longer than the orcs have, and the title can literally just mean a master of blades. I also suppose there's no reason why a non-orc couldn't become a Blademaster, like theoretically a non elf could become a Demon Hunter, it's just that Illidan hadn't trained any non-elfs so you don't see any in game.
@@SadeGames Its not vague in warcraft; it blademasters were a sect of orcs in the burning blade clan. They've been around since the lore in warcraft 1 and were integral to the formation of the first horde, as well as a few key battles during the first war. And though it is practical for someone outside of orcs to be trained to be a blade master, like it would be practical for someone thats not an elf to become a demon hunter... as the lore has been written, there arent any non-elf demon hunters, and no reason for there to be non-orc blade masters
Does nobody remember Lantresor of the Blade? He was technically part Draenei in the alternate Draenor, so he's technically living proof that the career isn't Horde exclusive.
The alliance finnaly looks bad for once. The zandalari never attacked the alliance or kul'tiras and they haven't officially sided with the horde yet as stated by Ion Hazzikostos. That doesn't happen until they become an allied race. (Not saying what sylvannas did was okay either)
". The zandalari never attacked the alliance or kul'tiras and they haven't officially sided with the horde yet as stated by Ion Hazzikostos". In Cataclysm, the Zandalari assisted the Amani in their war against both factions. Although Rastakhan didn't care, he offered Zul the power he needed. Zul, as a representative of the Zandalari Empire and the right hand man of Rastakhan, stationed his very troops to fight against us in Zul'aman. So, the Zandalari were actually enemies of the Alliance ever since Cata. Also, the people in Stormsong Valley weren't officially sided with the Alliance, but that didn't stop the Horde from butchering everyone.
@@PrinceVega Right but that was against the horde as well and bringing up past events the zandalari even aided both factions when we were fighting the gurubashi and Zul he was never on the zandalari's side.
@@victorolson1477 , if my memory serves me right, they aided us against the Gurubashi in Classic, when we defeated Hakar. However, the Gurubashi themselves were empowered by the Zandalari during Cataclysm, when they launched attacks to reclaim Stranglethorn Vale for thesmselves. Also, judging by the fact that Cata is closer to BfA, that would make Zul's actions more recent. Zul was indeed a backstabbing traitor, but Rastakhan kept him as an official representative of the Zandalari. His right hand man even! His action would still cause a war between the Alliance and the Zandalar Empire. Here, let me give a similar example. Genn Greymane, Anduin's right hand man, attacked Sylvanas without Anduin's permission. Like Zul back in Cata, Genn acted behind Anduin's back in order to get what he wanted. In this case, revenge against Sylvanas. However, that still counts as an Alliance attack and is registered, to this day, as one of the many sources of strife between the two factions.
@@PrinceVega Talanji never trusted Zul anyway. Zul even controlled the first king. Rastakhan never really cared about what Zul did. He was eventually going to betray him.
Victor Olson yet they did. During attack on Boralus in War Campaign of Alliance Horde soldiers are almost exclusively Zandalari with some orcs mixed in and we can see more of them on Horde troop ships. Soooo... yeah they attacked Kul’Tiras first.
Listen everyone, here’s what the end plot of battle for azaroth and who made Sylvanas warcheft should be. The void wants Sylvanas's soul but each time she has die she has been resurrected by her followers. So the void lord knew the only way to possess her soul permanently was to have the mortal races destroy all her resources. So they devised a plan where they'd tell vol'gin in his dying breath that she would need to become warcheft if the horde were to survive the legion. That way, when she started her own agenda she would cause so much havoc the mortal races would have to unite to defeat her and destroy everything she possesses that way when she dies this time, she will be dead for good. If you like my idea please like and share it and help make blizzard aware of it.
I think it is quite funny, how the alliance continues to speak about honor if you look at the table right now. Not that the attack was a bad idea (the reasoning given ingame is stupid though. You won't weaken the link between the horde and the zandalari by attacking them and killing the current king...) - but if you think how they do it: Not a honorable fight, but bombs, tricks, and all that. As a tactic it was good, but then again... not really honorable, I would say. I mean, one faction is also allowed to just blow up half a zone, surely no one was harmed during the big bombing of Vol'dun Not to say that the horde is any better. Or to say: Sylvanas. Oh no, surely not. But as we learned in Pandaria, the circle is continuing, and right now, the Alliance was responsible for it by killing the Zandalari king. It will be interesting to see what happens now, how the next things play out, and how exactly N'zoth and the Naga will come into play later on. My guess would be that the alliance will maybe take a bigger hit from them since they are basically closer to Kul Tiras
@@CalculatorTI89 I am perfectly aware of that - although what happend in the history of our world has little to no meaning to a fantasy world. And I also said I understand the tactic and why they did it. Still, I think it is funny to how actions of the two factions are evaluated... let's be honest, if the horde would do something like that in the current state of the addon / lore / whatever, how fast do you think someone would cry out how dirty, cowardly and without honor they are and so on. It is if anyone is trying to sell one faction as the pure good, and the other one as evil. Vol'Dun by the way is a VERY good example as well. With the alliance war campaign, they kill civilians. No doubt about that. But no one seems to care. At the same time, the horde is the evil faction because of the San'Layn. As if someone wants to distract players by waving at the "obviously bad thing" while not saying one word about the other action. Even better if you look at Gnomes who are proud if "a plan works perfect" - you kill civilians and you are proud of it? Holy hell, if the horde did this, how many would cry out? (alot, as we see - which is understandable and fine, but at the same time... some get out without even a small comment of "was that the right thing to do?") If honor's definition is up to interpretation, and if you should not call something out that may be wrong, no one has the right to question every action of a fantasy faction. But they do. But only for one of the two factions. Why is that I wonder?
it wasn't really dishonorable. it was tactics. did you know armies used to just line up and shoot at each other like idiots? then some tactical genius thought "hey lets hide behind stuff and ambush others" and it worked out a lot better. There is nothing morally compromising about blowing up enemy ships in combat. now if some of those ships were merchant ships or civilian ships and they did it indiscriminately then yes that would be very dishonorable but blowing up war vessels like that is just battlefield tactics. I doubt the alliance will face any real losses. They wont dare kill Anduin so soon after his dad died and Jaina has so much plot armor I think Erza would be jealous. I highly doubt that gnome leader will die. The only one I can see maybe dying is Glenn but that is just wishful thinking on my part. Sylvanas literally cannot die this expansion. When she dies the forsaken die with her. there can be no forsaken without her since without her no new forsaken can be raised. Since this is also a game we have to take into account what certain actions will cause gameplay wise. With Garrosh it wasn't like this because the orcs would always have another leader. The forsaken have been written into a corner with no good way out. Bad blizzard story telling.
@@LithKast As I said, if the Horde would use tactics like that to lure the army out and kill a leader, everyone would cry out in rage how disgraceful they are, how little honor they possess and how dirty they fight? For me, if I look at those two factions right now, there is a BIG bias going on (comparing the horde to the legion is also going a bit far I think). Not that there isn't any reason for it, there sure is. But still you should call out some of the actions that... well aren't right now. And don't tell me otherwise. That the horde have San'Layn in their army is called dishonorable (as a horde player you don't even know that) - but here is the question: are they worse than the guys who litterally use the might of the void lords to power themselfs? Which of those two factions are a bigger time bomb that can go catastrophially wrong? Strange, how everyone is very quiet about the very fact that these guys hear the whispers, and everyone is okay with that? Sure, there is no chance that they at some point give in... I mean, they already corrupt wildlife with the void, which would be bad enough, but throwing people INTO the void? Well, let's just say: I don't think that is something you should do, even to your enemy. Because what the creatures in there do to you? Pretty damn terrible. But on regards to the Forsaken: I am not sure. I do expect Sylvanas to at least lose the title of warchief. I am not sure if she will stay in the horde at the same time though. Even if she dies, its not really something I would cry about. As much as I like the character as a whole (not because she is good/bad/whatever, but because of her lore backgound and story arc), I am not sure how long you can keep her around - as we see, even in the horde the resistance is growing. Even Nathanos has his doubts in some cases, which should be VERY alarming for her. And he is the reason why I don't think she is needed any more. The reason why there are new forsaken isn't her personally, but the Valkyries. And sure they have a pact, but you have to think whats the basis of that pact. Being free from the Lich King. As it is with the questionable writing and reasoning right now, the question I have is: what is so special about Sylvanas in comparison to Nathanos for example. He is also not a "normal" forsaken. Could he have enough power (or get it, with the help of the Valkyries for example?) to secure them their freedom from the Lich King? I mean, they didn't want to be enslaved by the LK, if she for example really goes into Old God territorry (which isn't so unlikely, we've seen her with the old god dagger), I don't think the Valkyries are fine with serving them. In that case it would be possible for them to abandone her, IF they have another one... and that one could be Nathanos. And since he is doubting her actions at times, it would also be possible for him to break with her, if her actions continue like those he already didn't like. Even though I don't wanna see a Garrosh 2.0, because there are alot of similarities, they could go with a reason for her to leave the horde, have Nathanos lead the forsaken together with the Valkyries (or with them as his allies, however you want to put it). At least that would open her up to be a real bad guy, and not a bad guy in charge of the horde. I mean, that way you could also go REALLY wild with her actions, which also would kind of make sense. The more desperate she grows (losing her faction and so on), her actions to "survive at any costs" could also go further than they already did. I mean, if you have a bad guy, let him go all the way. Arthas was a GREAT villain, he also really basically went all the way (and he also is a pretty complex character)
@@Rakshiir Mark my words, they are going to go full 180 on Sylvannas' story and make her sacrifice herself for the forsaken. I strongly believe this ever since I saw those Legion thingies that basically teased her doing just that.
So i'm just going to point out why Sylvanas's plan wouldn't work. So for it to even get out the door she would need him to play dead. If she's planning on having him pretend to side with his sister that wouldn't work immediately because A.) the alliance and jaina knew she had his body, and B.) everyone knows that the forsaken as they are now are created by Sylvanas, and C.) they can't trust sylvanas. If Sylvanas has him pretend to join them it would fail because they know sylvanas was the one who had to resurrect him and if she resurrected him there was a purpose so they should automatically expect him to be a tool of sylvanas.
I still have a problem with the lore as Horde.. especially as a Death Knight.. why can't I just raise every Alliance soldier I kill to be part of my own army? I mean I AM THE DEATHLORD! "When your throne runs red with betrayal..." I wonder if that's Derek killing the Alliance or if maybe, just maybe Baine is going to grow a set and kill Sylvanas for the honor of the Horde.... but then the throne wouldn't run red as she doesn't have living blood in her.
There's a questline on the PTR that reveals what happens to Derek and that whole plan. Although, it hasn't shown the end of it so Sylvanas's plot could still be in motion. But yeah, I think Baine, Saurfang, Eitrigg and possibly Thrall will team up and slap Sylvanas down, but she has plot armour and will probably pull an Illidan and be like "everything was a part of my plan lul" and single-handedly slay an old god or some shit.
@@SadeGames accordingly she's being controlled by them as it's part of N'zoth's will as he has the Black Blade of the Empire and yet somehow she ends up with it. I mean it's not a stretch to think she's been controlled by the Old Gods after being impaled on saronite.. "her heart is a crater and we have filled it" being impaled on a spike would literally make your heart a crater and saronite is the blood of Yogg Saron.. I haven't seen the end of the Derek thing.. is it on the Alliance side? (but then I haven't done the dungeon quests so that might be part of it)
Is it just me or did blizzard nerf the zandalari fleet? In first horde cinematic the blockade completely destroyed the alliance fleet with basically a single volley,yet here it takes them several volleys and even then they failed to destroy the alliance ships.
Playing Battle for Azeroth at this time is like watching your best friend die from tuberculosis. It's only ever gonna get worse, you both know it and neither of you can do anything about it. Whether you like or hate the characters, nobody can deny that how this expansion has been utilising them is nothing less than heinous. The alliance are all the same person at this point, a sociopath obsessed with vengeance they stopped earning a long time ago. Sylvanas has polarised the entire fanbase, even though she is probably the only relevant character in the game anymore. Everything else is either forgotten as quickly as it's discovered and it genuinely feels like nobody cares about what happens by then end of this mess, but we just want it to end as quick possible.
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I was late because i was boosting The Hivemind JANIA WAS HELLA FUN
hivemind Sylvansas is worst
27:29 typical Daisy lol
Epic , But can u WHIP AND NAENAE AT THE SAME TIME !!!!!1
Alliance: "A king should be willing to die for his people."
Alliance: *asks Rastakhan to surrender*
Rastakhan: *refuses to surrender*
Alliance: :O
Sebastien Roux the :O is anduin, the rest doesn‘t give a shit
That is how true Kings “Surrender”
Lok’tar Ogar! Vengeance for Rastakhan!
Just because "A king should be willing to die for his people" doesn't mean he has to throw himself on a spear like an idiot.
The Alliance aren't the Burning Legion. Varian died for the world, Rastakhan died for his pride.
@Hk Dk wrong. He died for his empire. Zandalar ruled by the blood trolls would be very bad. The Alliance wrote their own death sentence by putting in motions the events that lead to Queen Taligis installation. The Queen is far superior as a great ruler who will quickly overshadow her father.
Jaina Proudmoore is just that. Nothing more than proud of making bold moves, quick the leave, quick to talk shit, stir drama. I look forward to the day her life ends.
King Verian died honorably. .
@Hk Dk sorry. I replied to the wrong person. I am writing to the asswipe that said the King died for Ego. He clearly did everything contrary to ego.
Rastakhan yelling "BWONSAMEDI" is the best piece of voice acting this xpac xD i love it so much. I gotta set it as an alarm
Lmaooo
I found it annoying. Not as annoying as Malfurion in Legion yelling Tyrande.....
39:22
Sylvanas: You should be grateful.
Derek: LOOOOOOOOOOL
I can’t wait for him to take revenge on the Warchief... *puts outcast hood on*
thats all i can hear now lol
Bet Sylvanus is gonna have Derek end up killing Katherine Proudmoore and then he realizes what he's done and screams some more
Oh my god I can't unhear it. I'm wheezing.
bahahahhaahah
damn, last time I was this early the grain just arrived at Stratholme...
😂😂😂 lmaoooo im weakkkk
No you didnt
brah
no king rules forever, my fada
Oh, fada
W h y .
ZUCCSEADING YO FAAADAHHH!!!111
@@Letgoit2 You have been stopped.
@@youraverageshitposter9083 whaaat?
The Alliance should have just blown up the navy and left. Pushing into the city cost them an army, Mekkatorque, and the Abyssal Scepter, and in return they swapped an old king for a new (arguably more competent) queen and made some powerful loa very angry at them.
I'm laughing at how sad Gallywix was after we killed the gold elemental.
welp tha gallywix for ya but he probly looted it as well
@@moonFang32 Goblins sobbing everywhere.
And he is a racial leader...
I’ll admit, that put a smile on my face. Love taking away the things that failed Trade Prince loves.
19:30 lol so funny
One thing that people dont give blizz enough credit for is the increase in quality and quantity of the voice acting. There is just SO MUCH awesome voice clips in this expansion.
You mean Magni telling us to heal "AZERATH WOOMS" and even critters in nazmir shouting "G'HUUuuUUUuUuN!11!!" at you?
@@themoreno2600 Ok so maybe not all of them are good.
Can i just have warcraft 3's sylvanas voice back now please? no oh ok bye.
Indeed!
Their Character writing as a whole is pretty good. Bwonsambdi is handsdown one of the most fun characters in WoW. His voice, his dialogue and his appearance just fits extremly well together.
So Jaina can raise the ship from the sea, make it fly all the way to the Undercity and magically power the cannons to blast all the walls.....but here she has trouble holding up a shield against the trolls attacks.....uh huh
its ridiculous how powerful she is shown to be and then she still loses.
And she can freeze blight from an entire battlefield, shield and teleport every alliance leader out to her ship but gets tired from an arcane bubble.
ok
Jaina staff is probably the most powerful mage weapon to ever exist currently. It is a artifact in its own rate on par with the ones mages got in Legion but the 3 in legion got 'broken' absorbing corruption.
@@domehammer I mean I think Atiesh, wielded by Khadgar, is the most powerful, but maybe i'm misinformed
I think raising the ship and gaining control of the seas required a long time. You can compare it to Illidan's spellwork in Outland.
Alliance: =killed like least several thousand trolls on the way here= "Surrender and you will be treated with dignity."
Rastakhan: =Doubt=
I don't understand how attacking the Zandalar was supposed to destabilized relations with the Horde.... if anything you are giving them a common foe....
Bad writing is bad
I think because the Alliance thought that if they destroyed the Zandalari fleet the horde would abandon them.
Quest just says to destroy the ships because they will be used again against ally. Not that killing troll will make them not go horde, just make them a deadweight
Yeah, thats what I am thinking as well. Just bad writing I guess.
And it would be even easier to just say: we attack them to cripple the fleet that could best our fleet. At the same time, you should be aware of the fact that attacking them and killing the king might piss them off really bad.
And sitting on an island with a nation who might have the support of several Loa is scary...
I mean, lets be honest: if he actually wanted to, Bwonsamdi could propably kill most of the alliance army on his own...
@@Rakshiir Bwonsamdi? Helping the Banshee queen? Suuuuure, that will happen...
Just realized they’re gonna introduce mechagnomes as a playable allied race by using Mekkatorques survival as the story. He will survive by turning into a mechagnome. And yep nobbel just said it as I was typing this out.
Yup! We know they're a-comin' Maybe Tinker class too?
I agree. I hope we see more of the Darkfallen, as they’ve recently taken a liking to drinking gnome blood. But more likely it will be those mutant aquatic goblins.
@Frostek its gonna happen eventually bud. watch. i could see horde and alli both getting their own unique classes.
@Frostek Nothing. I don't smoke, I don't drink, and the only drugs I take are those prescribed by my doctor. Go check the forums.
gotta keep those reskins as 'new races' going to cash in on those sweet sweet 25-30 USD services that are done within mere seconds and no stress for the servers whatsoever
I'm gonna miss Rastakhan he was my favorite new character from BFA. :(
Bruh we all knew Talanji was going to take over anyway. I thought that after Zul stabbed Rastakhan he would die and Talanji would become Queen and join the horde.
Damn shame too, he really turned out to be a cool character with a lot of potential, but nope guess we just gotta accept Princess No-Personality as the Zandalari leader now.
@@buldren0101 It's like what they did to vol'jin.
Yea i miss him too,but can we have him in guestline that we see him as a ghost like we see Vol'jin spirit in the guestline that you, Vol'jin, Talanji and Baine are trying to find who give Vol'jin the vision to name Sylvanas warchief.
@@stanislavkoev467 that reminds me, I still haven't encountered vol Jin as an NPC but I've heard that he becomes an NPC in the necropolis? Idk
Bwonsombi has the greatest dialogue. Absolute chaotic evil character but seriously funny as hell in a darker sense 26:17-26:19
Alliance lures army out, attacks civilian population and slays Rhastakan
"Lady Admiral was as gallant as they come, offering them every chance to back down"
u wot
Bias
You sure you're not being sliiiiiightly biased there? The only civilians that were killed were the ones that attacked the Alliance as they went through, which makes them no longer civilians. And Genn literally tells Rastakhan to surrender directly before Rastakhan insults everyone who isn't a Zandalari.
That's what the new PC leftist cucks at blizzard think "honorable" would mean lol. Sadly most Horde heroes in blizz are gone now
@@flamingjockeys I think you might be forgetting how an exiled king just rolled up blasting their naval forces and carving a path through the city itself (living quarters and trade areas) to then demand, with no proof of authority beyond the forces he commanded to invade with, to bend the knee.... or die.
Now the most gallant admiral's other version of events was not about allowing them to flee but to lure them out into open water and murder them. But for reasons the dev team decided that the factions don't get to see the same storyline and words them with very different dialogue at times.
The Alliance objective was to destroy the Zandalari fleet and force Rastakhan to surrender or to capture him as a hostage. If they were able to do either, they could force the Zandalari to expell the Horde from Zandalar, depriving the Horde of a critical naval port which would be perfect to reinforce Horde efforts on the Eastern Kingdoms, and depriving the Horde of a sizable new army to join the war.
In the scheme of the battle itself, if they had managed to force Rastakhan to surrender, the Horde army would have been trapped on Zandalar outnumbered and without escape, without Zandalari support and with Dazar'alor held by the Alliance.
The critical failure of the Alliance was killing Rastakhan, because all they have done was to solidify Talanji's Alliance with the Horde, with no hope of holding the city.
In my opinion, this battle was in fact a strategic loss and tactical pyrrhic victory for the Alliance. Ironically, their deception in Nazmir was too successful, with the Horde taking Zandalar's best ships up to Nazmir when the Alliance launched their attack.
The Alliance sacrificed too much in Nazmir, and the main combined Zandalari-Horde army didn't actually suffer much casualties when they returned to Dazar'alor.
The Alliance lost quite a sizable chunk of their rear guard during their retreat and would have lost a lot more if not for Jaina Proudmoore hard carrying the Alliance retreat. And even so, they still lost quite a few ships.
In this battle, the Alliance sacrificed an entire army in Nazmir, blitzed the skeleton crew of Dazar'alor's garrison while the main navy and army were away, and then took far heavier than expected casualties and losses of veteran 7th Legion during their retreat.
The Horde's main forces and the Zandalari army were relatively unscathed and intact despite losing King Rastakhan who, lets be honest, was already on the way out. Rokhan's forces in Nazmir were defeated but not decimated, and Dazar'alor's garrison was blitzed but remained a fighting force throughout the battle.
This wasn't a decisive Alliance victory..This was Pearl Harbour..it pushed the momentum in the Alliance's favour but it failed to eliminated the Horde's capabilities to wage war.
Well said.
Zandalari lost over half their fleet in the bombing. Not to mention Zandalari ships would be garbage in ship to ship combat especially compared to Kul Tiran ships that have sea magic all through them. The characters on both sides say it clearly: the alliance is winning. Thats why Sylvanas falls back on another evil scheme that Baine apparently ruined anyway.
FOR THE HORDE!
True. This technically an Alliance victory but it didn't do anything substantive for the war effort.
1.) The Horde still has a pressence on Zandalar, despite the losses inflicted on then by the Alliance invasion.
2.) The Zandalari formally joined the Horde, multiplying the Alliance's enemies and the Horde's military capabilities.
3.) King Rastakan's death didn't stop the Zandalari. It only caused Princess Talanji, arguably a better leader, to take the throne.
4.) The Alliance expended a HUGE amount of resources to launch this assault, which weakens them strategically.
5.) The Alliance lost a HUGE number of troops and may even lose Mechatorque himself.
In conclusion, I would argue that the HORDE won the battle because the Alliance didn't really accomplish anything for their sacrifice.
@@onlycorndog6322 Canonically horde lose more force from those fleet alone than entire alliance present in the assault.
Have Bwonsamdi and Sylvanas ever actually interacted? Because I imagine that would be interesting.
I was kinda wondering why she didn't offer to resurrect the king.
@@grandoldpodcast She wouldn't have been able to, 1. his body already deteriorated during his last moments and 2. his soul is firmly in the hands of Bwonsamdi, I guess you could ress his body as a ghoul but I doubt it would do any good
They haven't really interacted, but so far it seems that Bwonsamdi hates her.
look forward to 8.1.5 or 8.2
bwonsamdi would just kill her, she's sticking her fingers too deep into his territory.
It hurts to hear a few of the comments made by some of the Alliance, Genn and Mekkatorque for example. Alliance locks Talanji up in Stormwind, Horde breaks her out and she's appreciative, but apprehensive of it. Rastakhan makes a deal with Bwomsamdi only to save his people. Pricey, but he didnt do it "power for power's sake." Even though raising the dead is Bwomsandi's power, Genn says the Zandalari deserve what they get' suffice to say the only time Rastakhan utilizes it is to DEFEND HIS HOME. Rastakhan willing to sacrifice himself for his people in his fight, only to be looked down on for "not surrendering," even though the Alliance wiped out half of their population by that point.
Not trying to take away all the messed up things the Horde did leading up to this moment. Likewise, the characters don't know what WE know. All the while though, it's behavior and attitudes like this that push the outsiders together - the creation of The Horde.
Very well said.
Yea that's exactly my issue. I feel like the writers have made Sylvanas out to be this maniacal villain willing to do anything to achieve her goals, but it's not much different than what the alliance have been doing especially to people not initially involved in the Horde vs Alliance conflicts. The Alliance spurred a lot of this on throughout history and they act surprised by increased retaliations. First there was the warmonger Garrosh who retaliated against them with extreme actions, next it was Sylvanas, now Talanji's gonna do something and also be scapegoated as a villain despite them invading her home and killing her father.
@@HoboJoe10000 That's always been the Alliance's greatest flaw; for all their talk about honor, nobility, and justice; they can be quite xenophobic and arrogant.
Krovgor Warhawk considering the horde is a construct of the Orcs brought to this world to conquer it, after destroying their own world I might add, by agents of the burning legion. Anything the alliance would do to purge the horde from its world would be justified. Or are you saying if some Alien race came to earth with the intent of taking it over, enslaving it’s people, and taking all the resources we humans should just bow down? While the Orcs are no longer under the effects of the demon blood they drank on draenor, they have not proven to be able to settle for just their given land.
I do understand this is a storyline in a game and needs to create conflict, it is why people say the horde is basically evil and the alliance good, notwithstanding individual members of each faction.
@@bhzikerI'm not saying that the Horde is without flaws, I just wanted to say that the Alliance has it's share of flaws. Personally I don't see the factions as good or evil, just different shades of guilt.
Wow... Genn's prejudice and arrogance is overwhelming. Just like Sylvanas's unfathomable hubris.
Therefore, I see the only option...is to join N'zoth!
If only that was possible
High Tinker's voice actor, as well as Bwonsamdi's, are so good
Rastakhan's VA too.
Who was that amazing holy paladin at the end tho
Ever since I saw the first "gorilla warfare" pasta in youtube comments I've always wanted to use this: not only Alliance hit the Horde with guerilla tactics but they also them with actual gorilla tactics
Like holy shit that Bwonsamdi voice actor (Alex Dessert) is so good man. I can listen to him all day.
I absolutely *loved* this raid. The content of this expansion has so far mostly felt like prep-work, but now the "Battle for Azeroth" has finally actually begun. My only real criticism has to fall on the half-assed way they implemented Jaina as a bossfight. I mean, she faced off against the people who are referred to on a regular basis as the mightiest champions the Horde have to offer yet sho got away pretty much completely unscathed. Granted, she is *extremely* powerful, but she's still only one person. It feels like she was included as a boss just as a "wouldn't it be cool if you fought Jaina" type scenario but with there being no real consequences for her, why have it be Jaina in the first place? At the very least, I'd like to have seen her be crippled in some way (now there's a line you don't wanna say without context :P) but she wasn't even hospitalised.
Technically it's the second time the Horde has fought Jaina in game lol
In BFA, Jaina is protected by plot armour that's so thick it even protects her from character development and the consequences for her actions.
horde is weak
@@onlycorndog6322 Well...Christie Golden is writing the story and her favourite characters are Anduin and Jaina.
So yeah...none of those two are going to die.
That was simply for the raid purpuse. If they didn't make it like this, it wouldn't really make much sense. But yes, I agree with you.
She offered the Horde every chance to turn back.
Jaina: KILL’EM ALL!!!
Both narrators, Otoye for Horde and Tandred for Alliance, are unrreliable in order to make their side look better
Otoye tells the Horde that Genn wanted Rastakhan to kneel and Talanji as a prisoner when he said nothing of the sort
Tandred tells the Alliance that Jaina was noble and tried to avoid conflict when in reality she was shown to be sadistic
the fact that Mekkatorque survies a balista shot to the face, doesn't make sense at all
It's okay, he is wearing plate armour... right?..
he has like millions of health duhh
It didn't hit him in the face tho? it hit the ground he was standing on which made him fall to the lower levels of the ship
Justin Mitchell it hit him otherwise if it hit the ground otherwise he would have fallen through the upper deck
@@Jay-kr7kt we saw allis ships going down by 1-2 shots of said balista in the intro to zandalar so yes it is a "bit" lucky
Bownsandi like “I’m having so much FUN!!”
33:06 feels relateable man. its so annoying that they force the music on you in some parts of the story now. and always super loud.
to the top with you
I agree. It's absolutely obnoxious.
If there’s anything we learned from the alliance’s attack, it’s that next time we should inspect every inch of our ships so they don’t get blown up again, there are plenty of heroes crazy enough to do that for us.
I hope you'll see this and reply Nobbel but do you have any more information on the imprisonment of talanji at the start of all this like why she was captured in the first place? Because as I see it the alliance committed an act of war against the zandalari first as at the time they were neutral and not allied with the horde yet
Well, they HAVE tried to wipe all of us out multiple times...Just look at what Zul did...
@@Diree What ZUL did. As far as I know, Rastakhan never ordered him to do all of this shit.
Talanji was out to seek help from the Horde. Being that they are Zandalari, the Alliance have every right to imprison them and kill them if they wanted to. Like another comment posted, Zul's actions in both Cata and Mop give the Alliance all the right in the world to detain them. But being that they are the Alliance they spared their lives.
@@silverspear21 May I remind you that Zul was technically not acting on Rastakhans behalf.
@@thefacelessone5591 What does that have to do with anything? Did the Alliance know that? Did you or I know that in cata and mop? Remember that the Night Elves know the Troll history better than most and they know of the ways of the Zandalari. For all we know, Anduin was probably waiting to hear from Tyrande and Malfurion before deciding what to do with Talanji. But since they were both still recovering from the World Tree burning they had more important things to attend to than to council the "boy King" and teach his history.
As somebody who only raids with LFR I thank you Nobbel for letting me the happenings of this raid for both Horde and Alliance. Thanks!
Same here. Im more for PvP.
You dont really raid then, you just hit test dummies.
At last, the very much expected story from our favourite Loremaster, thanks again! ^^
Heroes of the Horde can slay N'zoth but can't kill Jaina Proudmoore. She has to be a Nathrezim or Demon of some sort. Like why doesn't she just kill N'zoth or something? She's literally more powerful than an Old God.
I listened to Before the Storm on Audible, and I loved it. It’s actually read by Anduin’s Voice Actor.
for a "severely" wounded Jaina Proudmoore she stands, talks and reason quite lively. Oh, right, she's alliance, ofc she's invulnerable - how could i forget.
Your Green J did everything for 3 expansions
shut it
Which is why even Horde disliked green Jesus. Alliance players worship at the feet of Jaina.
Gnome king: possible dies
You: alliance leaders are invulnerable!
Malfurion could tear Sylvanas apart back in ashenvale but he just blinded her...because of reasons? Main characters don't just die like that but I agress it is a bad writing.
@@filipkwasnik7926 Gnome king is going to come back stronger as the leader of the new mecha-gnome allied race
gnome king didn't die, he just froze himself kinda like magni did he'll probably come back in a few expansions as a new gnome just like Magni did
Rastakhan ain't coming back though
Whomever was manning the ballista that shot Mekkatorque and Jaina needs a promotion.
Very even handed and morally grey story telling, the incompotent tree burning, war crime committing and divided horde againt the pure, perfect, multiple times victorious and united Alliance. So beautiful and complex /s
I am getting increasingly sick of you people, calling everything (Tree was evil, yes) the Horde does wrong and cruel and unreasonable, when that's not what's going on. And even sicker of you worthless filth ignoring everything the Alliance is doing that isn't even close to morally good, always justifying themselves with "the Horde does worse" either have consistent morals or throw them in the trash YOU FUCKING PISS ME OFF.
@@varnisa get your head checked. Genocide is as evil as it gets
@@varnisa The tree burning wasn't evil as much as it was retarded. A single night elf talked back to Sylvanas and she threw a fit. Sylvanas will act like a idiot when provoked. Which will likely be her downfall.
domehammer she did not burn the tree because of being talked back to lmao it’s pretty obvious it was an ulterior motive
The Troll Champion of Light says "Light guide me ... to de ... Other Side" and because of Blizzcon this year we know The Other Side is Bwonsomdi's Pocket Dimension in the Shadowlands so I'm going to say that the Boss is a paladin of Bownsomdi.
"failure is your family lagacy "
roasted
racim ramzi lmfao oh yeah burned hard
someone asked you when the bombs were placed ey? wonder who that could be :)
I find Genn having huge amount of double standards when so coldly saying Rastakhan was a cassualty of war, but at the same reacting so emotionally to Varians and his sons death.
They both were casualties of the war so how he reacted to and said Rastakhan chose his fate same could be said about both of them so he shouldn't react emotionally Varians or his sons death.
Basic human emotions 101: The closer they are too us the more we care.
It is easy to call some troll king he doesnt care for a cassualty of war.
It is hard to call your own child or best friend a cassualty of war.
Also both those wars where unprovoked.
King Rastakhan knew that letting the horde stay would make him a target as the horde was already at war with the alliance.
He isnt that stupid(it is why he is dragging his feet in joining the horde. Would you want to get your people involved in there wars?)
He atleast had a choice not to get involved into the war at all.
@@malaficus Yeah I get its basic human emotions, but you can't use the excuse that the was only casualties of war, if you can't take the same excuse as its double standards at its highest. Also Varian died because Mathoas shaw failed to do his job and got captured before the events at the broken shore so Genn should be mad at him for it, not sylvanas.
Also Gurubashi, Amani and sandfury tribes were at the zuldazar for years and they were at war with the alliance and the horde and letting them stay didn't make them at target, so why would the horde then?
Secondly Alliance forced Rastakhans hand by capturing and imprisoning Zul and Talanji. Actually no he didn't have a choice Alliance captured their major political figures for no reason and sent an navy to zandalari waters and had troops in Talanji's rebuke area of zuldazar.
From Rastakhans PoV alliance were out to get him.
@@johannessimola1615 But humans are hypocrits.
That is kinda the whole problem with our spieces.
@@malaficus Nearly every respetacble leader in humans history has shown that they know letting their blind emotions dominate them is stupid and know that acting hypocritically even if they lose many people they love only causes misfortune.
So why can't genn act like a proper ruler?
@@johannessimola1615 Knowing and doing are two different things. Our own history is full of pridefull leaders who allow there country to be ruined for pride alone.
As for why genn cant act like a proper ruler?
He is the only alliance leader who remotely does.
There is a reason so many want him has high king.
He threats his enemies as enemies, Care's for his people and honor his debts.
But blizzard has shown time and again to have no concept on anything remotely normal human behavior.
I remember several thousent of topic's complaining on how anduin is to soft, tyrande was reduced to a thropy wife the gnomes didnt do anything, velen was kinda there but forgettable.
Jania turns her point of view every five min.
Genn is the most love alliance charater because he is the only one with a personality.
If this ends with another Siege or Orgrimmar I will straight up quit WoW.
The shitty state of the game already made me quit, but yeah the story writing this xpac certainly isn't tempting me to go back.
Good one less hypocrite playing.
@@JohnDoe-vn1we How is it hypocritical?
Please do one less Horde hypocrite.
i don't think we'll end up killing sylvannas this xpac, but leading into the next one, most likely yes. she will be a tool in helping Nzoth
But yeah, Blizz isn't playing favorites at all. Nope. Completely no bias for the Alliance at all.
That's what the new PC leftist cucks at blizzard think "honorable" would mean lol. Sadly most Horde heroes in blizz are gone now
Well...Christie Golden is writing the story now.
Who are her favorite characters? Anduin and Jaina.
Guess which characters got an immense plotarmor and massive power-ups...
26:42 me watching my brother forced to do the dishes because I have a "fever"
A troll that uses the light sounds interesting.
Bwonsamdi is best loa!
Let the horde have their revenge!
Well thats the thing, I don't think the horde should have revenge really, but I do think the alliance should have more bad guys for the horde to kill so they can be the good guys every once in a while since the horde has routinely played the bad guy at this point.
I want Shaw. He’s done shady shit in the past and I wish they had a new Garathos that was xenophobic to match. Something to stain the Alliance in the open and not just their recent past.
Trolls using the light only exsist because the horde babies cried hard enough.
Trolls using the light exists because of Blizzards long time established lore.
@@JohnDoe-vn1we Troll paladins have been a thing waaaay before now.
Predictions
Derek will attempt to kill jaina
Kathrine will sacrifice her life to protcc her
Jaina be even more mad
Talanji vs jaina will be super interesting
I agree on the Talanji vs Jaina thing. In one corner, we have a super powerful mage who was once so openminded and idealistic, who was quickly twisted to hating everyone who had anything to do with Theremore's destruction. Talanji was the same. Perhaps a bit more jaded to the alliance, but she wasnt bloodthirsty by any means. Perfect illustration of the vicious cycle the Alliance and the Horde are locked in. Proudmore made another Theremore.
@@aerieleah533 You are blind to the facts but it is ok it suits your wants. Jaina was not "quickly twisted". You should go read up on previous lore and expansions and even Warcraft. Jaina has been fighting for peace for years and years only to have the Horde repeatedly ruin those chances.
I can see Derek being the reason why the Alliance accept undead, they were already willing to accept them back in before Sylvanas killed her own people.
I would not be surprised if Blizzard end up splitting both factions and ending up with 3. Each faction for a Windrunner sister.
I do like how our visit to alternate Draenor actually DID impact some things (since the Mag'har come from nearly 30 years after the time we were there - even though it wasn't that long ago for us). We apparently taught the Mag'har how to be classes like monks.
Also, for Zandalari paladins, it doesn't matter if Rezan is gone now. They might've thought they were getting their power from Rezan, but that's not how the Light works. Even after Rezan was gone, a Zandalari paladin could continue to wield the light as long as they continued to believe in it.
Sylvanas really wants that little lion on his knees...😂.
This was perfect! Thanks as always for your amazing works!!
19:03 & 19:28. Gallywix's VA is so good. Alliance are really the real monsters... LOL
this shows that a raid and battleground mix would be fking amazing! imagine a race to kill the bosses to see who finish first
First they imprisoned their princess.
Then destroyed their capitol.
And Anduin think they haven't lost sight of who they are? Okay, boy.
Imprisoned her because she was traveling with known super villain Zul. Destroyed their capital because they allowed the horde to use it as a military staging point.
@@Moadar Alliance are just like USA, fucking terrorists.
That's what the new PC leftist cucks at blizzard think "honorable" would mean lol. Sadly most Horde heroes in blizz are gone now
@@Moadar they still attacked civilians and peaceful archaeologists. The Alliance is JUST as bad as the Horde, if not worse given their history.
The whole Defias Brotherhood storyline still paints The Alliance as scum, just to start from Vanilla.
Culling of Dalaran is another thing.
Attack on Undercity in Wrath.
There are PLENTY of cases where the Alliance, just like the Horde, went too far.
It's funny how people either take one extreme stance or the other, even when it comes to a video game.
@@MrMhtmht Thrall is, apparently, making a comeback, though. Hopefully this'll herald in a new time for the Horde. One where childish writers don't mess up the characters in the game.
Jaina now rejects the idea of pressing the attack at a time when the Zandalari Empire is weak? So now she is not full of vengeance? Last expansion she was ready to go full genocide on the Horde. Did something happen to her during BfA that gave her a change in heart? Or is this just the amateur inconsistency of characters and lore in this expansion?
they are lifting the alliance story atm, so the crazy psyco weak lame etc etc story.. are horde only allowed..
@SamTheWayne and pretty soon blizzard is going to have jaina lose her mother too because why shouldn't they just shovel more shit into her life specifically.
Here's the thing about that. She's not restraining her attack out of courtesy or sympathy to the enemy.
She's doing it to avoid resembling them. So any morality that can come from her decision is completely lost.
????? So do y’all have such short memory that you don’t remember the whole Jaina thing in Kul Tiras? Or is this some other Jaina? I KNOW y’all can’t be this dumb to forget why she’s calmed down.
@SamTheWayneNotice how when she was trapped in... "the void i guess?", she confronted all of her regrets, and none of the regrets were towards the horde? I find that fishy, as if it was intentional on the part of the void creatures tormenting her.
Talanji, my daugtah..... **eye starts flaming blue** ...you're gonna have a bad time... **megalovania wow theme remix starts playing**
I can't express my hate towards this comment.
as a horde player i got to give it to the alliance, they caught us mostly with our pants down
Yes an alliance attack will surely destabilize relations between horde and zandalari....didn't twilight's hammer have a similar plan that actually worked? sad that a group of fanatical lunatics have better strategies than the alliance.
Again. The whole point was never to weaken their relation. The whole point was to take them out of the war. The alliance want the Zandalari navy to be gone. That is their target. They hold talanji hostage to make sure Zandalari won't join the Horde.
Nobbel is the embodiment of the lorewalker title
Good God BFA's storytelling is absolutely atrocious. I'm sorry you have to endure this, Nobbel. Horde literally isn't allowed anything good at this point. The entire faction's storytelling has been poison for years.
Mekkatorque will be 100% perfectly fine before the end of BFA, Jaina was 'gravely wounded' but the next time she's seen she basically acts like she just climbed a few steep flights of stairs. Meanwhile the Horde is still saddled with Arthas + Tits for a leader, Rastakhan is dead, Princess Mary Sue is now Queen Mary Sue and the Bwonsamdi angle will probably be dropped similar to Stormheim because reasons.
Oh, and Baine is still a simpering bitch and Saurfang has gone full Eitrigg and is off hiding in a hut in Swamp of Sorrows.
YAY FOR MORALLY GRAY.
Teldrassil
"Muh Teldrassil"
First off: Undercity.
Second off, literally the least used Alliance city. Exodar had more consistent activity. I bet you couldn't name 3 people that lived in Darnassus in the last 14 years that weren't Tyrande, Malfurion and Fandral Staghelm without looking up an NPC list.
Meanwhile, Rastakhan is canonically killed by an Alliance player raid. A Horde Allied Racial Leader is killed so he can be replaced by his daughter because he was the only Allied Racial Leader that wasn't female. In exchange we "hurt" Mekkatorque (He'll be back before BFA is over, stronger than ever and with zero residual damage from this fight) and despite the story claiming we "heavily wounded" Jaina, she basically acts like she got a few hairs knocked slightly out of place when she's seen 5 minutes later talking to Anduin. Bitch doesn't even sound lightly winded despite having just fought up to 25 Horde elites that were responsible for numerous victories over massive Legion armies and leaders up to and including Kil'jaeden and Argus.
Plus we're being set up for Siege of Orgrimmar 2.0 with Sylvanas playing Garrosh and Nathanos playing Nazgrim. Meaning an Alliance Player raid will now canonically have TWO KILLS of Horde Warchiefs under their belt.
Mary sue? All female leaders have fighted lot of battles and trainded longs years to gain those powers.
Cant handle a strong female characther? These characthers are nothing like that Stupid ho Rey from star wars.
@@Stuff59042 sylvanas aint gonna die. I bet she leave the horde for the greater good. She knows whats luring in the void. Dead is the true enemy of the void. Thats why she want so much dead.
Stuff59042 she was very impulsive in nazmir from what I remember
I think the Loa that the Zandalari Prelates worship now is Akunda. The buff you get from his altar is called Holystorm, and the proc deals Holystorm damage, so he uses a combination of nature and holy magic.
Thanks. I quit wow. but I was curious how things are going. Definately dont miss it from the looks of this.
Currently hooked on FF14
Voljin questline becomes available after you finish this quest, hopefully you cover it in next video :)
Bain : Perhaps we can open negotiations?
Sylvanas : The Alliance slays the leader of Zandalari , And you speak of negotiation?
Me : Well , all of this will never happened if you don't burn that goddamn tree!!!
It goes back further than that. As long as Jaina and Genn were in the Alliance, there would never be peace between the Alliance and Horde.
@@donjezza10 this is where our good friends Derek would help and save Azeroth at killing 2 of the warmonger leaders of that faction and once Sylvannas gets out of the way the peace negotiations can begin.
@@donjezza10 Genn can change his mind if u read before the storm.
jaina is no longer a angel of revenge I think she just want the war to end.
Literally the only problem in the horde are the undead buddies Nathanos and Sylvanas. They need to die cuz an undead horde is a shitty horde
@@takerustuff5233 lol read before the storm more attentively. Genn wanted this war.
Fucking stump only accelerated events, the alliance would have struck one way or another, if you carefully read the book it will be clear
@@takerustuff5233 In before the storm, Genn was the only one encouraging a retaliation against the Horde because he flat out lied to Anduin about how Sylvanas wanted to break the Alliance up, something that was never even mentioned or even hinted at beforehand.
Also in Before the Storm, Sylvanas talks about the fact that the attack in Stormhiem was illegal and states that Genn will clearly go to any lengths to get his revenge.
26:15 just noticed something, works well since you can obtain Bwonsamdi's staff as raid loot... but he got a different staff now, how bout that
11:55 R.I.P. lovely Longboi.
Wow that gnome wireless bomb thing scene was goofy xD
"Were you planning to sparkle me to death?" best line :D
You think you are better than me?
YOU THINK YOU ARE BETTER THAN ME?
*LETS GO TINKER BOY*
Sometimes this game is really really scary. To think of the lengths some people will go to get what they want. No wonder Orcs just wanna fight and win honorably. Most of everyone else schemes so deeply it borders on insane, if not vile.
Alliance Logic: If we siege the Troll city it should totally destablize relations between them and the Horde...
Tzeentch: AHAHAHAHAHA
u mean blizzard logic, blizzard writes the story, u know?
It would seem like tzeentch plan to foil his other plan.
Damm the revan god.
The blood god (Khorne) is very happy with this war!!!
@@malaficus hey hey hey now, give credit where credit is due plebeians, it's about time my plans finally came to fruition.
I feel like there might be some like the Tauren who may turn against the Horde in favour of the Alliance or something like that.
I had a feeling early on that we would eventually get 3 factions or something similar.
The Tauren would join up with the Night Elves and any other race based on nature etc. (Draenai,Worgen) and be Nature's Grasp.
The orcs/trolls/vulpera,undead etc would join up as the Outsiders
The Humans, dwarves, gnomes etc would be the Titanic Alliance
Any other race could be neutral like the Pandaren, Goblins etc.
Sadly this will not be the case though.
Am I the only one interested for Talanji and Bwonsamdi's interactions
Damn they wernet kidding when they said that Tension between NPC's were rising, just wondering when we get some world pvp going?
Wow, can someone please re-purpose Baine into burgers? This is primary school level dialogue.
Im sure the Blood Elves would be happy with that.
And once again, the Horde starts a war against the Alliance, only to get soundly beat. They have a long line of losses, which makes me wonder, why would they even attempt to fight the Alliance knowing they'll just lose, again.
rastakan accent is just golden !!
Man they completely don't give a fuck about any pre-existing lore. So much of this is a contradiction to stuff from other expansions, especially the resurrection at the end.
Whoa "The pyramid is Alliance 'property;"? Damn Alliance Colonizers!!
Thanks for the laugh.
She fought countless deamons int the nether,
but when we fought against their Overlord Sargeras
she shines with brilliant apsences.
in my eyes she is only a offended shirker with too much Power.
Using loved ones to kill their own family, insisting on completely wiping out a people. Never mind the Lich King, what is the difference between Sylvanas and Kiljaedan now? The Horde continues to look more and more like the Legion each day.
As if that matters plot armor will do its work just like in the raid
Alliance just destroyed Zandalari fleet just so the Horde could not have them, they killed the Zandalari king who has been alive for over 200 years just because of their hatered for the Horde. It's war, stop whining.
Isn't it obvious? We do it for the Horde. Our warcry is victory or death, not sucking up to Allinance's expectaions.
KJ did nothing wrong!!! ;)
ranch man I swear horde fanboys dont know shit about the lore xD.
Great vid, always a pleasure.
"Her heart is a crater... And we have filled it." We might have a new contestant for this whisper now that our princess is a queen.
It could also be connected with the fact that Bwonsamdi has a boss
I still think that this refers more to Azeroth or maybe Alleria. There's been no Void relations with any of the Zandalari aside from G'huun, and Talanji never showed any signs of allying with him.
What's that Genn? 1:27 for the horde you say?
I thought the Blademaster occupation was orc exclusive...? Since when can draenei be blade masters? Are there other non-orc blademasters?
the team writing for the story right now isnt the same from the RTS days, and they made a lot of oopsies when they took over, because they wanted to make warcraft their own instead of keeping the same spirit. But yea, blademasters were specifically an orc thing from the old horde.
Blademaster is a vague term. He's been around a lot longer than the orcs have, and the title can literally just mean a master of blades. I also suppose there's no reason why a non-orc couldn't become a Blademaster, like theoretically a non elf could become a Demon Hunter, it's just that Illidan hadn't trained any non-elfs so you don't see any in game.
@@SadeGames Its not vague in warcraft; it blademasters were a sect of orcs in the burning blade clan. They've been around since the lore in warcraft 1 and were integral to the formation of the first horde, as well as a few key battles during the first war.
And though it is practical for someone outside of orcs to be trained to be a blade master, like it would be practical for someone thats not an elf to become a demon hunter... as the lore has been written, there arent any non-elf demon hunters, and no reason for there to be non-orc blade masters
bloodydove5718 not like someone else couldn’t have become their own style of blademaster look how many different types of other classes there are
Does nobody remember Lantresor of the Blade? He was technically part Draenei in the alternate Draenor, so he's technically living proof that the career isn't Horde exclusive.
These type of videos are the best. love this way of story telling
The alliance finnaly looks bad for once. The zandalari never attacked the alliance or kul'tiras and they haven't officially sided with the horde yet as stated by Ion Hazzikostos. That doesn't happen until they become an allied race. (Not saying what sylvannas did was okay either)
". The zandalari never attacked the alliance or kul'tiras and they haven't officially sided with the horde yet as stated by Ion Hazzikostos".
In Cataclysm, the Zandalari assisted the Amani in their war against both factions. Although Rastakhan didn't care, he offered Zul the power he needed. Zul, as a representative of the Zandalari Empire and the right hand man of Rastakhan, stationed his very troops to fight against us in Zul'aman.
So, the Zandalari were actually enemies of the Alliance ever since Cata.
Also, the people in Stormsong Valley weren't officially sided with the Alliance, but that didn't stop the Horde from butchering everyone.
@@PrinceVega Right but that was against the horde as well and bringing up past events the zandalari even aided both factions when we were fighting the gurubashi and Zul he was never on the zandalari's side.
@@victorolson1477 , if my memory serves me right, they aided us against the Gurubashi in Classic, when we defeated Hakar.
However, the Gurubashi themselves were empowered by the Zandalari during Cataclysm, when they launched attacks to reclaim Stranglethorn Vale for thesmselves.
Also, judging by the fact that Cata is closer to BfA, that would make Zul's actions more recent. Zul was indeed a backstabbing traitor, but Rastakhan kept him as an official representative of the Zandalari. His right hand man even! His action would still cause a war between the Alliance and the Zandalar Empire.
Here, let me give a similar example. Genn Greymane, Anduin's right hand man, attacked Sylvanas without Anduin's permission. Like Zul back in Cata, Genn acted behind Anduin's back in order to get what he wanted. In this case, revenge against Sylvanas. However, that still counts as an Alliance attack and is registered, to this day, as one of the many sources of strife between the two factions.
@@PrinceVega Talanji never trusted Zul anyway. Zul even controlled the first king. Rastakhan never really cared about what Zul did. He was eventually going to betray him.
Victor Olson yet they did. During attack on Boralus in War Campaign of Alliance Horde soldiers are almost exclusively Zandalari with some orcs mixed in and we can see more of them on Horde troop ships. Soooo... yeah they attacked Kul’Tiras first.
Listen everyone, here’s what the end plot of battle for azaroth and who made Sylvanas warcheft should be. The void wants Sylvanas's soul but each time she has die she has been resurrected by her followers. So the void lord knew the only way to possess her soul permanently was to have the mortal races destroy all her resources. So they devised a plan where they'd tell vol'gin in his dying breath that she would need to become warcheft if the horde were to survive the legion. That way, when she started her own agenda she would cause so much havoc the mortal races would have to unite to defeat her and destroy everything she possesses that way when she dies this time, she will be dead for good. If you like my idea please like and share it and help make blizzard aware of it.
Vengeance for Zul'jin! VENGEANCE FOR RASTAKHAN!
Horde = Avengers
Alliance = Justice League
Lol
Reap what you sow horde fuckwad.
The fucking 3 fingered asshats will pay for killing mekkatorque
@@JohnDoe-vn1we I guess that means that the Proudmoores will be no more when we decimate Kul Tiras.
Love the respect that the high tinker is getting
I think it is quite funny, how the alliance continues to speak about honor if you look at the table right now.
Not that the attack was a bad idea (the reasoning given ingame is stupid though. You won't weaken the link between the horde and the zandalari by attacking them and killing the current king...) - but if you think how they do it:
Not a honorable fight, but bombs, tricks, and all that.
As a tactic it was good, but then again... not really honorable, I would say.
I mean, one faction is also allowed to just blow up half a zone, surely no one was harmed during the big bombing of Vol'dun
Not to say that the horde is any better. Or to say: Sylvanas. Oh no, surely not. But as we learned in Pandaria, the circle is continuing, and right now, the Alliance was responsible for it by killing the Zandalari king. It will be interesting to see what happens now, how the next things play out, and how exactly N'zoth and the Naga will come into play later on. My guess would be that the alliance will maybe take a bigger hit from them since they are basically closer to Kul Tiras
Honorable fights like this happen all the time in the history of our own world. Shoosh. Honor's definition has always been up to interpretation.
@@CalculatorTI89
I am perfectly aware of that - although what happend in the history of our world has little to no meaning to a fantasy world.
And I also said I understand the tactic and why they did it.
Still, I think it is funny to how actions of the two factions are evaluated... let's be honest, if the horde would do something like that in the current state of the addon / lore / whatever, how fast do you think someone would cry out how dirty, cowardly and without honor they are and so on. It is if anyone is trying to sell one faction as the pure good, and the other one as evil.
Vol'Dun by the way is a VERY good example as well. With the alliance war campaign, they kill civilians. No doubt about that. But no one seems to care. At the same time, the horde is the evil faction because of the San'Layn. As if someone wants to distract players by waving at the "obviously bad thing" while not saying one word about the other action. Even better if you look at Gnomes who are proud if "a plan works perfect" - you kill civilians and you are proud of it? Holy hell, if the horde did this, how many would cry out? (alot, as we see - which is understandable and fine, but at the same time... some get out without even a small comment of "was that the right thing to do?")
If honor's definition is up to interpretation, and if you should not call something out that may be wrong, no one has the right to question every action of a fantasy faction. But they do. But only for one of the two factions. Why is that I wonder?
it wasn't really dishonorable. it was tactics. did you know armies used to just line up and shoot at each other like idiots? then some tactical genius thought "hey lets hide behind stuff and ambush others" and it worked out a lot better. There is nothing morally compromising about blowing up enemy ships in combat. now if some of those ships were merchant ships or civilian ships and they did it indiscriminately then yes that would be very dishonorable but blowing up war vessels like that is just battlefield tactics.
I doubt the alliance will face any real losses. They wont dare kill Anduin so soon after his dad died and Jaina has so much plot armor I think Erza would be jealous. I highly doubt that gnome leader will die. The only one I can see maybe dying is Glenn but that is just wishful thinking on my part.
Sylvanas literally cannot die this expansion. When she dies the forsaken die with her. there can be no forsaken without her since without her no new forsaken can be raised. Since this is also a game we have to take into account what certain actions will cause gameplay wise. With Garrosh it wasn't like this because the orcs would always have another leader. The forsaken have been written into a corner with no good way out. Bad blizzard story telling.
@@LithKast
As I said, if the Horde would use tactics like that to lure the army out and kill a leader, everyone would cry out in rage how disgraceful they are, how little honor they possess and how dirty they fight? For me, if I look at those two factions right now, there is a BIG bias going on (comparing the horde to the legion is also going a bit far I think). Not that there isn't any reason for it, there sure is. But still you should call out some of the actions that... well aren't right now.
And don't tell me otherwise. That the horde have San'Layn in their army is called dishonorable (as a horde player you don't even know that) - but here is the question: are they worse than the guys who litterally use the might of the void lords to power themselfs? Which of those two factions are a bigger time bomb that can go catastrophially wrong?
Strange, how everyone is very quiet about the very fact that these guys hear the whispers, and everyone is okay with that? Sure, there is no chance that they at some point give in... I mean, they already corrupt wildlife with the void, which would be bad enough, but throwing people INTO the void? Well, let's just say: I don't think that is something you should do, even to your enemy. Because what the creatures in there do to you? Pretty damn terrible.
But on regards to the Forsaken:
I am not sure. I do expect Sylvanas to at least lose the title of warchief. I am not sure if she will stay in the horde at the same time though. Even if she dies, its not really something I would cry about. As much as I like the character as a whole (not because she is good/bad/whatever, but because of her lore backgound and story arc), I am not sure how long you can keep her around - as we see, even in the horde the resistance is growing. Even Nathanos has his doubts in some cases, which should be VERY alarming for her.
And he is the reason why I don't think she is needed any more.
The reason why there are new forsaken isn't her personally, but the Valkyries. And sure they have a pact, but you have to think whats the basis of that pact. Being free from the Lich King. As it is with the questionable writing and reasoning right now, the question I have is: what is so special about Sylvanas in comparison to Nathanos for example. He is also not a "normal" forsaken. Could he have enough power (or get it, with the help of the Valkyries for example?) to secure them their freedom from the Lich King? I mean, they didn't want to be enslaved by the LK, if she for example really goes into Old God territorry (which isn't so unlikely, we've seen her with the old god dagger), I don't think the Valkyries are fine with serving them. In that case it would be possible for them to abandone her, IF they have another one... and that one could be Nathanos. And since he is doubting her actions at times, it would also be possible for him to break with her, if her actions continue like those he already didn't like.
Even though I don't wanna see a Garrosh 2.0, because there are alot of similarities, they could go with a reason for her to leave the horde, have Nathanos lead the forsaken together with the Valkyries (or with them as his allies, however you want to put it). At least that would open her up to be a real bad guy, and not a bad guy in charge of the horde. I mean, that way you could also go REALLY wild with her actions, which also would kind of make sense. The more desperate she grows (losing her faction and so on), her actions to "survive at any costs" could also go further than they already did. I mean, if you have a bad guy, let him go all the way. Arthas was a GREAT villain, he also really basically went all the way (and he also is a pretty complex character)
@@Rakshiir Mark my words, they are going to go full 180 on Sylvannas' story and make her sacrifice herself for the forsaken. I strongly believe this ever since I saw those Legion thingies that basically teased her doing just that.
I've been gearing up some alts through timewalking for this raid. The first LFR wing will come out this week.
So i'm just going to point out why Sylvanas's plan wouldn't work.
So for it to even get out the door she would need him to play dead.
If she's planning on having him pretend to side with his sister that wouldn't work immediately because A.) the alliance and jaina knew she had his body, and B.) everyone knows that the forsaken as they are now are created by Sylvanas, and C.) they can't trust sylvanas.
If Sylvanas has him pretend to join them it would fail because they know sylvanas was the one who had to resurrect him and if she resurrected him there was a purpose so they should automatically expect him to be a tool of sylvanas.
Hahaha when this actually happens and I am like man how stupid can lore get.....
@Nyghtking who asked
"Rastakhan chose his fate when he sided with the horde", no he decided his fate when you imprisoned his daughter and trusted aide
Or he decided his fate from what the Zandalari did in Cata and MOP.
32:38 Not sure if Anduin is being overly negative or realistic, he was aware of the whole plan, but now expresses a strange amount of concern
The plan was to imprison rastakan and force a surrender, so the plan failed in that aspect.
I gotta say, despite the problems with this expansion, it has made me absolutely fall in love with Jaina. Her character arc is wonderfully written
Anyone else think Bwonsamdi looks and acts much like Hades from Hercules animated film?
I still have a problem with the lore as Horde.. especially as a Death Knight.. why can't I just raise every Alliance soldier I kill to be part of my own army? I mean I AM THE DEATHLORD!
"When your throne runs red with betrayal..." I wonder if that's Derek killing the Alliance or if maybe, just maybe Baine is going to grow a set and kill Sylvanas for the honor of the Horde.... but then the throne wouldn't run red as she doesn't have living blood in her.
Nah, we're all back to being nobodys
don't think baine is close to being powerful enough to stand against sylvanas
There's a questline on the PTR that reveals what happens to Derek and that whole plan. Although, it hasn't shown the end of it so Sylvanas's plot could still be in motion. But yeah, I think Baine, Saurfang, Eitrigg and possibly Thrall will team up and slap Sylvanas down, but she has plot armour and will probably pull an Illidan and be like "everything was a part of my plan lul" and single-handedly slay an old god or some shit.
@@SadeGames with n'zoth's whispers out i kinda trust him over sylvanas at this point.
@@SadeGames accordingly she's being controlled by them as it's part of N'zoth's will as he has the Black Blade of the Empire and yet somehow she ends up with it. I mean it's not a stretch to think she's been controlled by the Old Gods after being impaled on saronite.. "her heart is a crater and we have filled it" being impaled on a spike would literally make your heart a crater and saronite is the blood of Yogg Saron.. I haven't seen the end of the Derek thing.. is it on the Alliance side? (but then I haven't done the dungeon quests so that might be part of it)
39:40. No wonder why the taurens, including the Highmoutain, are the ONLY Horde races that can't play rogues.
Is it just me or did blizzard nerf the zandalari fleet? In first horde cinematic the blockade completely destroyed the alliance fleet with basically a single volley,yet here it takes them several volleys and even then they failed to destroy the alliance ships.
Plot Armor
Depend on where they were hit. Obviously Jaina were not there to block some of the shield
Nobble87 when you look at last alliance meeting, it look like Shaw is using two Azerite daggers. Know anything about them?
Playing Battle for Azeroth at this time is like watching your best friend die from tuberculosis.
It's only ever gonna get worse, you both know it and neither of you can do anything about it.
Whether you like or hate the characters, nobody can deny that how this expansion has been utilising them is nothing less than heinous.
The alliance are all the same person at this point, a sociopath obsessed with vengeance they stopped earning a long time ago.
Sylvanas has polarised the entire fanbase, even though she is probably the only relevant character in the game anymore.
Everything else is either forgotten as quickly as it's discovered and it genuinely feels like nobody cares about what happens by then end of this mess, but we just want it to end as quick possible.