Statement of Mr. Dongchung Ngodup, Kalon for Department of Security, on the issue of Dhogyal during the 7th session of the 15th TPiE on 17th March, 2014.
Desung Kalon la,absolutely right. 100 percent true. I fully support and agree with you. Hey! you Shugden followers, Anything to say or comment after hearing this fact? Truth is more powerful than chinese government money.
I had been with shugden for many years and i have documented many of his teachings and predictions. By looking at them, he is a great scholar, kind teacher and his teaching is full of guru devotion, karma, compassion, how to lead meaningful life. I haven't seen even an atom of negativity in his teaching. One time at monastery, we were not studying good and often go to watch movie. One day while in trance, shugden said to us" when u have all the spiritual resources and excellent teacher as ur guidance, don't waste ur time, instead with great sense of urgency make your life meaningful otherwise when all these conducive factors are passed, you will regret so much." also he said, those who go and watch movie, why don't you watch the great treatises of buddha and commentaries by both indian and tibetan masters, you would find so many beautiful things in those". From that moments, i stopped going to cinema theater. So tell me, how can i possibly think his as evil spirit? I cant, he had been like my parents.
THIS IS INDEED A WONDERFUL AND CONCISE STATEMENT MADE BY KUGOE DENSUNG KALON ON DHOGYAL, HOWEVER THIS STATEMENT SHOULD BE REFERRED TO OR TAKEN UP AS A STATEMENT FROM KASHAG RATHER THAN DENSUNG KALON ALONE.
I really appreciate kashag for their clear answers and replies to all shugden concerns. I hope the followers of shugden can go to india and see whether there is such ban, if Tibetans practising this sprint has been ostracised from the tib community..please be aware and visit tibetan settlements
Everyone has the right to believe in any religion no matter what . One must respect others . The young tibetan generations are not stupid like our older generation. They are more educated ,true (pure)even they don’t practice Buddhism like our older generation.Why do they divide unity among Tibetan. (Why don’t tibetan government office focus on tibetan freedom more than Dogyal .Don’t blame Dogyal , they only practice purely Buddha ‘s teaching .Really sad !
In conclusion, if you are not lying you must say publicly: 1) what is your valid reason for saying that Shugden harms the Dalai Lama’s life, 2) what is your valid reason for saying that Shugden harms the Tibetan people, and 3) what is your valid reason for saying that Shugden harms Tibetan independence.
You see this controversy first proped up during the time of Vth Dalai Lama ( 17th century ) and is still lingering in our community. I think the great fifth had the vision of restoring the glorious past Tibet of Trisong Detsen ( 7th century ) when really we tibetans were the power block atleast in that part of the world. Even the Chinese historian accords with these records. The King Trisong imported Buddha Dharma from India, did a marvellous job of introducing Buddhism in Tibet. It has had immense benefit for inner well being of tibetans and its neighbours. But in my mundane opinion he went too far in establishing Buddhism and left ignored the political establishment, armies, buracratic structure,commerce etc. Thus Bhuddism "establishment" penetrated deep into the fibres of our community leading to the end of Tibetan empire definitly during the Lhang Dharma ( 8th century ). In short thus started the religious instituition as the temporal and spiritual head of the country. Chronologically Nyingmapa, Kagyupa , Sakyapa, Jhonangpa, Kadampa, Gelukpa reigned subsequentely and loosely "Tibet" by then divided into kings and kingdoms. Though politically ( hard core ) Tibet was divided yet the tibetan Buddhism ( soft core ) became the common denominator among all the tibetan speaking people. And it has remained up to these days as an invisible thread that bind us all. To cut the long story short , for a Tibet to become an united entity the unity among these major school of Tibetan Bhuddism was (and is) not only vital but necessary. So going back to the Great Fifth he saw the possiblity and we did felt the atmosphere of great Tibet as he himself was a great architect of political and spiritual sphere. He strongly condemned the dhogyal practice because it stressed on the supremacy of Gelugpa over the other schools. Here I would like to clarify that Gelugpa school was founded by the great scholar and spiritual master Je Tsongkha pa, during whose time shugden spirit was not even born yet. And Tsong Kha Pa himself learned and practiced all the other schools also. So this close minded vision of " Gelugpa supremacy" is a retrospective attribution of Shugden group. Besides without incommoding spiritual aspects this standpoint alone is enough even for non spiritual persons to envision disaster it might bring. Now coming back to us, we have lost our country and we are in exile. What we have now ? What is our assets? Tenzin Gyatso the 14th Dalai Lama has rewired the greatness of our past Tibet at least in the heart of millions tibetan and non by focusing and navagating with wisdom and compassione amids the torrents of exile condition, democratic norms, revitalizing the tibetan buddhism and in nut shell giving every tibetan a hope and aspiration to carry on. Remember he is the first tibetan Lama ( perhaps first religious figure in the world ) to packed up definitely the century olds religious instituition as both temporal and spiritual head. I would love to see if they (Shugden group ) have the wisdom and courage to reform the divisive element so called "gelugpa" supermacy out of their hardcore practice ? Perhaps then we can imagine and envision a united " Tibet " in our heart to begin with..
Jamyung Norbu: "Of course, people must be allowed their beliefs no matter how ridiculous or wrong we may perceive them. I believe people have the right to worship Shugden or any other deity they want....The trouble is that the Tibetan government has been inducted to implement the Dalai Lama’s proscription of Shugden worship. The Tibetan government claims it has not issued any orders or appeals to people to harass or fight Shugden worshippers. Yet it has produced and distributed literature and videos demonizing Shugden worshippers." www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2013/10/31/the-sad-painful-joke-of-tibetan-democracy/
these people have non idea whats going on in the tibetan society!!! all the suffering they creating for noting instead of solving tibet independence and harmony hope the this will change
i just want all tibetan brother and sister to be united. dalai lama and tibetan govt. should try to help and care abt shugden believers.dnt let them to be used againt tibetan by chinese...wake up and stop fighting within ourself.
Open Letter to The Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile from The International Shugden Community In point 2 of your resolution you say: “Worshipping the worldly gods, particularly spirits for protection, contravenes the principle of following the three refuge in Buddhism. The conference unequivocally proclaims that any individuals or organisation propitiating Dolgyal, would not be affiliated to any Tibetan religious school.” You are lying! Following the Dalai Lama’s view and intention the Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile is continually telling people that Shugden harms the Dalai Lama’s life, harms the Tibetan people and harms Tibetan independence. Using these three reasons you are forcing people to abandon Shugden practice. People have no freedom as they are completely controlled by the Dalai Lama himself and Parliament. Everybody knows the Dalai Lama is already 80 years old and very healthy; it is complete nonsense to say that Shugden is harming his life! There is not one single Tibetan person in India and Nepal who has received harm from Shugden; only people who follow the Dalai Lama’s hallucination believe this. The Dalai Lama himself has rejected Tibetan independence; he has already said publicly that Tibet is a part of China. Everybody knows this! So, in reality, he has destroyed Tibetan independence. It is therefore complete nonsense to say that Shugden harms Tibetan independence. You, the Tibetan Parliament, do not understand this. This is your ignorance. Previously many higher Sakya Lamas and later many higher Gelugpa lamas including Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, who is the root Guru of this present false Dalai Lama, have said that Shugden is an Enlightened Deity, the nature of the compassion and wisdom of the Buddhas. Because of your ignorance you do not understand this. In conclusion, if you are not lying you must say publicly: 1) what is your valid reason for saying that Shugden harms the Dalai Lama’s life, 2) what is your valid reason for saying that Shugden harms the Tibetan people, and 3) what is your valid reason for saying that Shugden harms Tibetan independence. We need your reply to be posted on your website by no later than 29th March 2014. If we do not receive your reply with your three valid reasons, which we mention above by this date, then it will be internationally recognized that the Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile and the Dalai Lama are lying. The International Shugden Community wishes to tell you, the Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile, Samdong and Robert Thurman: Tibetan Parliament-in-exile, stop lying; Samdong, stop lying; Robert Thurman, stop lying; Tibetan Parliament-in-exile, stop cheating people; Samdong, stop cheating people; Robert Thurman, stop cheating people. The International Shugden Community 20th March 2014
Karze Bhu Any other murders happend since 1996 in the world? Should we ban all religions because of individuals engaging in negative actions? Can you please bring more examples of the violent behavior of Gelugpas, who wish to continue their protector practice, given to them by their teachers. No matter how often you mention this unresolved murder case ... it does not transform it into more violence. Even if these murders were committed by those who rely on Dorje Shugden, how can you make all other Shugden practitioners responsible???? Please think again and stop this hateful speech.
Omg such a boring poeple the only thing they care is about them self and their little life in the Tibetan government non one is agains Dalai Lama there is only one form of politic this is not democracy
Very insightful n informative . Thank u Kugno la!!
Desung Kalon la,absolutely right. 100 percent true. I fully support and agree with you. Hey! you Shugden followers, Anything to say or comment after hearing this fact? Truth is more powerful than chinese government money.
Thank you for the clear message to all.....
I had been with shugden for many years and i have documented many of his teachings and predictions. By looking at them, he is a great scholar, kind teacher and his teaching is full of guru devotion, karma, compassion, how to lead meaningful life. I haven't seen even an atom of negativity in his teaching. One time at monastery, we were not studying good and often go to watch movie. One day while in trance, shugden said to us" when u have all the spiritual resources and excellent teacher as ur guidance, don't waste ur time, instead with great sense of urgency make your life meaningful otherwise when all these conducive factors are passed, you will regret so much." also he said, those who go and watch movie, why don't you watch the great treatises of buddha and commentaries by both indian and tibetan masters, you would find so many beautiful things in those". From that moments, i stopped going to cinema theater. So tell me, how can i possibly think his as evil spirit? I cant, he had been like my parents.
THANK YOU DESUNG KALON LA
really nice speach and we salute for ur brave.LONG LIVE HIS HOLINESS
THIS IS INDEED A WONDERFUL AND CONCISE STATEMENT MADE BY KUGOE DENSUNG KALON ON DHOGYAL, HOWEVER THIS STATEMENT SHOULD BE REFERRED TO OR TAKEN UP AS A STATEMENT FROM KASHAG RATHER THAN DENSUNG KALON ALONE.
I really appreciate kashag for their clear answers and replies to all shugden concerns. I hope the followers of shugden can go to india and see whether there is such ban, if Tibetans practising this sprint has been ostracised from the tib community..please be aware and visit tibetan settlements
thank you so much! long live his holiness the Dalai Lama, long live the truth!
ONE OF THE BEST SPEECH ... GOOD JOB .. TASHI DELEK ...
Everyone has the right to believe in any religion no matter what . One must respect others . The young tibetan generations are not stupid like our older generation. They are more educated ,true (pure)even they don’t practice Buddhism like our older generation.Why do they divide unity among Tibetan. (Why don’t tibetan government office focus on tibetan freedom more than Dogyal .Don’t blame Dogyal , they only practice purely Buddha ‘s teaching .Really sad !
In conclusion, if you are not lying you must say publicly:
1) what is your valid reason for saying that Shugden harms the Dalai Lama’s life,
2) what is your valid reason for saying that Shugden harms the Tibetan people, and
3) what is your valid reason for saying that Shugden harms Tibetan independence.
very true...
Adidaphat 🙏🙏🙏
You see this controversy first proped up during the time of Vth Dalai Lama ( 17th century ) and is still lingering in our community. I think the great fifth had the vision of restoring the glorious past Tibet of Trisong Detsen ( 7th century ) when really we tibetans were the power block atleast in that part of the world. Even the Chinese historian accords with these records. The King Trisong imported Buddha Dharma from India, did a marvellous job of introducing Buddhism in Tibet. It has had immense benefit for inner well being of tibetans and its neighbours. But in my mundane opinion he went too far in establishing Buddhism and left ignored the political establishment, armies, buracratic structure,commerce etc. Thus Bhuddism "establishment" penetrated deep into the fibres of our community leading to the end of Tibetan empire definitly during the Lhang Dharma ( 8th century ). In short thus started the religious instituition as the temporal and spiritual head of the country. Chronologically Nyingmapa, Kagyupa , Sakyapa, Jhonangpa, Kadampa, Gelukpa reigned subsequentely and loosely "Tibet" by then divided into kings and kingdoms. Though politically ( hard core ) Tibet was divided yet the tibetan Buddhism ( soft core ) became the common denominator among all the tibetan speaking people. And it has remained up to these days as an invisible thread that bind us all. To cut the long story short , for a Tibet to become an united entity the unity among these major school of Tibetan Bhuddism was (and is) not only vital but necessary. So going back to the Great Fifth he saw the possiblity and we did felt the atmosphere of great Tibet as he himself was a great architect of political and spiritual sphere. He strongly condemned the dhogyal practice because it stressed on the supremacy of Gelugpa over the other schools. Here I would like to clarify that Gelugpa school was founded by the great scholar and spiritual master Je Tsongkha pa, during whose time shugden spirit was not even born yet. And Tsong Kha Pa himself learned and practiced all the other schools also. So this close minded vision of " Gelugpa supremacy" is a retrospective attribution of Shugden group. Besides without incommoding spiritual aspects this standpoint alone is enough even for non spiritual persons to envision disaster it might bring.
Now coming back to us, we have lost our country and we are in exile. What we have now ? What is our assets? Tenzin Gyatso the 14th Dalai Lama has rewired the greatness of our past Tibet at least in the heart of millions tibetan and non by focusing and navagating with wisdom and compassione amids the torrents of exile condition, democratic norms, revitalizing the tibetan buddhism and in nut shell giving every tibetan a hope and aspiration to carry on. Remember he is the first tibetan Lama ( perhaps first religious figure in the world ) to packed up definitely the century olds religious instituition as both temporal and spiritual head. I would love to see if they (Shugden group ) have the wisdom and courage to reform the divisive element so called "gelugpa" supermacy out of their hardcore practice ? Perhaps then we can imagine and envision a united " Tibet " in our heart to begin with..
གློག་བརྙན་གསར་པ་
brave and courages...salute u
Can anyone translate it in english and other languages
He is thru
Jamyung Norbu: "Of course, people must be allowed their beliefs no matter how ridiculous or wrong we may perceive them. I believe people have the right to worship Shugden or any other deity they want....The trouble is that the Tibetan government has been inducted to implement the Dalai Lama’s proscription of Shugden worship. The Tibetan government claims it has not issued any orders or appeals to people to harass or fight Shugden worshippers. Yet it has produced and distributed literature and videos demonizing Shugden worshippers." www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2013/10/31/the-sad-painful-joke-of-tibetan-democracy/
these people have non idea whats going on in the tibetan society!!! all the suffering they creating
for noting instead of solving tibet independence and harmony hope the this will change
i just want all tibetan brother and sister to be united. dalai lama and tibetan govt. should try to help and care abt shugden believers.dnt let them to be used againt tibetan by chinese...wake up and stop fighting within ourself.
is this the democratic system of our country. So sad.
NKT is not democratic... but CTA, is certainly democratic...
Open Letter to The Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile from The International Shugden Community
In point 2 of your resolution you say:
“Worshipping the worldly gods, particularly spirits for protection, contravenes the principle of following the three refuge in Buddhism. The conference unequivocally proclaims that any individuals or organisation propitiating Dolgyal, would not be affiliated to any Tibetan religious school.”
You are lying! Following the Dalai Lama’s view and intention the Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile is continually telling people that Shugden harms the Dalai Lama’s life, harms the Tibetan people and harms Tibetan independence. Using these three reasons you are forcing people to abandon Shugden practice. People have no freedom as they are completely controlled by the Dalai Lama himself and Parliament. Everybody knows the Dalai Lama is already 80 years old and very healthy; it is complete nonsense to say that Shugden is harming his life! There is not one single Tibetan person in India and Nepal who has received harm from Shugden; only people who follow the Dalai Lama’s hallucination believe this. The Dalai Lama himself has rejected Tibetan independence; he has already said publicly that Tibet is a part of China. Everybody knows this! So, in reality, he has destroyed Tibetan independence. It is therefore complete nonsense to say that Shugden harms Tibetan independence. You, the Tibetan Parliament, do not understand this. This is your ignorance. Previously many higher Sakya Lamas and later many higher Gelugpa lamas including Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, who is the root Guru of this present false Dalai Lama, have said that Shugden is an Enlightened Deity, the nature of the compassion and wisdom of the Buddhas. Because of your ignorance you do not understand this.
In conclusion, if you are not lying you must say publicly:
1) what is your valid reason for saying that Shugden harms the Dalai Lama’s life,
2) what is your valid reason for saying that Shugden harms the Tibetan people, and
3) what is your valid reason for saying that Shugden harms Tibetan independence.
We need your reply to be posted on your website by no later than 29th March 2014. If we do not receive your reply with your three valid reasons, which we mention above by this date, then it will be internationally recognized that the Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile and the Dalai Lama are lying.
The International Shugden Community wishes to tell you, the Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile, Samdong and Robert Thurman: Tibetan Parliament-in-exile, stop lying; Samdong, stop lying; Robert Thurman, stop lying; Tibetan Parliament-in-exile, stop cheating people; Samdong, stop cheating people; Robert Thurman, stop cheating people.
The International Shugden Community
20th March 2014
Karze Bhu
Any other murders happend since 1996 in the world?
Should we ban all religions because of individuals engaging in negative actions? Can you please bring more examples of the violent behavior of Gelugpas, who wish to continue their protector practice, given to them by their teachers. No matter how often you mention this unresolved murder case ... it does not transform it into more violence. Even if these murders were committed by those who rely on Dorje Shugden, how can you make all other Shugden practitioners responsible????
Please think again and stop this hateful speech.
Is it a warning?
Omg such a boring poeple the only thing they care is about them self and their little life in the Tibetan government non one is agains Dalai Lama there is only one form of politic this is not democracy
སྐྱག་པ་ཟ་
Thukjey chey..
sorry but i dont agree with wht he said.no point..foolish man