Many people feel that pitch is an absolute, and hitting a pitch is hit or miss only, but to those of us who really understand singing, pitch is an area, a radius around a place, and how you arrive in that area, stay in it, and then exit is where all the character of your voice is recorded.
I think this is why the vocal performances we really fall in love with as iconic these days are still the ones that aren't tuned. There are only 12 notes, and so the way that you approach them from either side provides so much of the character of a singer. Much like how a lot of the character of a guitarist is in the way they bend or vibrato notes. Sure, most of today's popular music is tuned to some extent, or tuned a lot, but if you look at the top 5 albums of the century so far, Adele is #1 (21) and #5 (25) and Norah Jones (Come Away With Me) is #4, with something like 90 million albums sold between those 3. Those are 3 albums that are beloved in part for their amazing, and honest vocal performances, and they are absolutely not tuned. My philosophy when chasing little details while playing in a band is that the audience WILL be able to hear the difference, even if they wont necessarily identify what the difference is (nor should they bother to try, just enjoy!). And I don't know if the average music fan who bought those albums could tell you that the little (sometimes deliberate) tuning imperfections are a big part of the character of those two women's voices and that it's one of the details that makes those performances on those albums so iconic. But they ABSOLUTELY agreed that those performances were iconic.
@@chadchadsonyt7813 totally agree mate. Unless "oppinion "is a dig about roboticism? Think I'm probably reading far too much into this, and it is indeed, merely a typo. Social media has made me a suspicious bugger... paranoid even. But you're only paranoid, until they are out to get you.. It was a typo wasn't it??? 😀
This whole video was worth it to learn that you can use a little bit of autotune on a bass. I have a song I'm working on where the bass guitar I had to use really wasn't the best quality and some of the notes went flat. I was thinking of just copy/pasting the notes that are in pitch to correct it, but I think I'll try a little bit of autotune instead! Update: worked like a charm. Thanks Justin!
Please learn to adjust the intonation on your bass. You will find some quite expensive basses that are not properly set up. No, sorry: most guitars are not properly set-up.
Your intro jingle never fails to make me laugh. It's so wistfully sad, that the sheer inappropriateness of it's use makes it perfect British comedy. Don't ever stop being you Justin.
Justin, it's the same for guitars. I always hated locking tuners. Brandon What's-his-face from the Raconteurs once talked in an interview about a session he was doing where they tuned up before each punch in. At the end of the session he told the engineer "It all sounds a bit lifeless". The engineer suggested doubling the part on a guitar that was slightly out of tune on purpose. Suddenly it was MUCH better! Same with effects. Everyone buys "analog" plug-ins with "wow & flutter". Well, guess what the plugins and old tape machines are "fluttering"? The f*cking pitch! S And same AGAIN with rhythm. As Ringo once said "I'm the damn click track!" SING OUT OF TUNE PEOPLE! SPEED UP OR SLOW DOWN THE BEAT! Mess it up. Give your song some damn life.
Works for drums, too. Wanna know why a double kick setup sounds so much better than a single (for those who are inclined for double-bass)? Because usually each kick is just slightly out-of-tune with the other one. Some drummers will even intentionally tune one slightly out to create better articulation. Hell, some drummers even have two different sized kicks.
Yeah, keep the character in voices. Not quite hitting a note here and there though is quite different from just being completely flat or sharp all the time.
Never going to happen when the majority of tabletop producers are using midi click tracks to create punched in wav files of recorded instruments. Everything gets snapped to the grid
2:55 I'm actually really impressed! Justin Hawkins has always come across as particularly eloquent/elegant and very verbally well-versed (I guess it makes sense for a songwriter, so I suppose the surprise comes from my observation that not all singers/band front men come across as nearly that well spoken) but I didn't expect him to have such a good handle of the meaning of stochastic, which you don't normally see outside of the context of topics in statistics and discrete math (including probability). That's a spot on interpretation considering that stochastic comes from the greek word, -stochos, meaning "guess." Impressive as always, Justin! :)
I always think of autotune as having a similar effect as quantizing all of the drum and guitar parts so they are perfectly on the beat but for vocals. objectively it should be better but sometimes just sucks the life out of the music
Double tracking a pitchy vocal often turns it into almost a feature piece and somehow sounds better than one pitchy vocal on it's own. I prefer this method to using any form of pitch correction or autotune. I am an indy producer however and I produce accordingly. Not sure it would fly in the hyper polished pop world though.
I liked the way Cher used it to create an effect. And lo! You have just said it as I was typing. Am I channeling Mr Hawkins? Strange as I'm more of a large than a medium these days. Loving these instructive videos.
Sometimes it’s cool.. other times, it’s used as a crutch. It’s all relative to the listener. I get why people go so hard in the paint and hate it, but it’s another tool to be creative with.
Frank Ocean as well - I feel like he uses it to deliberately mask emotion, like someone would look away from you if they were talking to you about something deeply personal. Makes it even more emotionally impactful particularly as I know Frank has a great voice and doesn't need it.
The voice is a beautiful instrument, and to remove the rawness and human flaws of it is a sin. I'm also not some geezer out there reminiscing about what music used to be, i'm a 16 year old aspiring musician, so maybe our generation has some hope if there's others out there who have the same musical values as me.
not to mention, it's always painfully obvious when autotune has been used so I don't know who they think they're fooling. also, most of the mainstream performers today are lipping or using pitch correcting mics. everyone's afraid of f-ing up. I think producers rely on autotune now just to shorten studio sessions
The most beloved vocal performances of this century are still not autotuned, so I'd say there's no need to lose hope at all. For me, the best verification of this is that 3 of the top 5 albums so far this century (where autotune has been available the whole time) belong to Adele (2) and Norah Jones (1) and none of those vocal performances are tuned, and the vocal performances are definitely the biggest part of what makes those albums iconic. Great songs can be made using autotune, but great vocal performances can't be, and I think we're always going to be drawn to the power of a vocal performance that feels honest and emotive, and the human element of how someone uses their voice is always going to need to be a part of that. Look forward to hearing Justin discuss one of your songs someday. :)
@@imnotokayipromise5940 I mainly play guitar but am proficient in bass, drums, and piano as well. I mainly play rock, metal, and ballads but like to experiment jazz and slower things. How about you?
Having done vocal pitch correction, my $0.02 A) if done right with good vocals, you shouldn't notice. It can be a great tool for cleaning up harmonies, the key is to be gentle/subtle and not just dump everything thru the pitch correction. B) Melodyne is a better pitch correction platform imo C) Justin is spot on, it is hella useful on bass or even occasionally on guitar leads to clean up a bend that didn't land right. Bass especially though. In our perfect A440 world, bass being even a smidge off can make the whole track sound bad.
I’ve lost count of the amount of vocalists that have asked me to ‘fix their vocal with auto tune’, my answer is always the same “let’s fix it in the vocal booth shall we” 😊
This must be why I love earlier rock bands records a lot, I absolutely love the rawness and human-ness of it. It feels like you can connect, rather than the overly-produced, higher budget later records.
Has anyone else seen the This Is Pop Netflix doco on autotune? I found it fascinating, especially how T-Pain can really sing well without autotune, also the inventor is an interesting guy…. Justin, yet another great video mate, nice to hear someone speak that pretty much always mirrors what’s going on in my head
Im loving this stuff mate! My grandfather taught me to play the spoons but ive never really explored my song writing skills , perhaps autotune will help. Hope your mustache get well soon.
I don't like Autotune at all. I want my singers to be either perfectly and authentically on the notes (think Freddie Mercury) or perfectly and authentically off (think Bob Dylan). Come to think of it, most of my favourite singers are of the "slightly off" persuasion.
I’ve been working with a well known, respected female singer these last six months, on a track for one of her upcoming albums. The vocal she included in the multitrack, she told me was a demo/guide vocal, to be replaced later with a second “better” take. As a producer/remixer, I’ve been doing this since way before Autotune even existed, so I maybe don’t work in a way some younger musicians do, inasmuch as, I don’t automatically reach for the pitch correction software when I hear something isn’t right bang on the note. Firstly this is just down to personal preference, as I’m from the old school, and believe that imperfections are what give magic to music. Even though she kept telling me it was a guide vocal, containing lots of imperfect moments, I didn’t once choose to apply any pitch correction, simply ‘cause I personally loved it the way it existed in its raw form. She didn’t stipulate or insist on any pitch correction, and I instinctively felt it wasn’t even a consideration given the style and flavour of her song. To have implemented Autotune would’ve totally robbed the track of so much unexplainable magic. I often joke with my wife about one of the toughest periods of our life together. I once spent 70 plus days fighting for my life in Intensive Care. I regularly tell my wife how I count my blessings for those traumatic, stolen weeks in ICU, as they fell during October/November/December 1998, which perfectly coincided with the release of Cher’s song Believe. If one is going to be placed in an induced coma, always keep your fingers crossed that it coincides with the release of a particularly polarising and irksome smash hit! I’m jesting for comic effect obviously, I don’t really dislike Cher’s song that much. I’ve actually long fancied a crack at a retrospective remix of that song, and have often wondered if the original, raw vocal still exists in its pre Autotuned form. Everybody is so accustomed to the highly processed finished version, I can’t help thinking that an authentically produced late 70s/early 80s Disco or Hi Energy mix featuring a pure, un-Autotuned vocal might possibly sound even better than the 98 version? I wonder if a raw, un-Autotuned take of Cher’s vocal still exists on good old 2 inch tape somewhere, or if they only archived the vocal in its more recognisable Autotuned form? I’d love to hear it, warts n all.
Instead of just applying it to a whole vocal track, sparse use on single notes can be useful. When the emotion and character of the voice is just perfect, but the note is just flat enough to sound off. Just use it on that one syllable, and just nudge it enough that it doesn't sound "off" anymore. It can still be flat, just not as flat. I'd like to see auto tuning software get rid of the piano roll underneath the notes. The pitch could still move moved for individual syllables, but engineers would have to rely on their ears to decide which notes to "fix" and by how much. As is, autotune it is a perfect example of mixing with your eyes and not your ears.
Anthony Keidis sings slightly out of tune on most of the RHCP material, and for myself(and apparently millions of others) that is what makes his delivery unique. No auto tune needed
I think autotune is a large reason why there hasn't really been a truly iconic rock voice like Chris Cornell or Freddie Mercury etc since its invention
More like what Justin said some time ago about there being too many "experts" in music industry that push only certain types of sound (and looks) towards the ears of the public and overproduce the sound. It's not like there's a lack of talents with trained voices with wide ranges. Also feels like people might actually be tired of regular sounding voices. I remember long time ago some older people told me that it takes no talent to play electric guitars (and other string instruments like violins) with effect pedals and that true musicians should stick with acoustic stuff and that overdriven and distorted electric guitars all sound like meowing cats. And now we are here complaining that younger people like distorted, clipped and altered voices.
there have been... they just aren't as famous. anthony green of saosin and circa survive immediately comes to mind. there's also rody walker of protest the hero. both of those guys have insane ranges and vocal control and their tone is unique and amazing
Absolutely right. Cher used autotune as an effect and not to compensate for any pitch shortcomings, as many do now. Love Mr Blue Sky too - perfect rock/opera/pop and love the effect on Jeff Lynne's voice.
Love this channel , your break down of Florence and the machine was brilliant I was proper chuckling to myself. Won't be long til you get your 100k subs
The problem is that record companies have been autotuning old recordings as well when they remaster them. There is something to be said about not being totally perfect, it gives the song character, like you said. The harmonies on a song like Roundabout, for example, would not have the feel they do if it was autotuned. Great video Justin!
Very cool! Again as a singer I think I’ve been trapped into feeling like I was not interpreting certain pieces of music correctly, possibly because of these types of effects. If it did anything it made me push a little harder, and train my ear better! Lol! Personally I was always very irritated by the effect, beginning in Cher’s song, And it’s rare that I have much of an appreciation for it… I just love to learn from your videos!
I think it's important to differentiate between auto-tune and manual tuning. To tidy up a vocal track I think a bit of manual tuning on the worst offending notes is alright. But applying auto to the whole track is a bit much unless you're using it as an effect.
Fun fact. The producer of the Cher track told interviewers they’d used a vocoder. IIRC he did this so that every producer wouldn’t immediately copy the effect. Also, it would have been pretty hard to explain in interviews. Most people didn’t know what auto tune was. Most people didn’t even know what a DAW looked like and a lot of people didn’t even know computers were being used instead of tape machines. I remember when that song came out and we were fascinated by it, wondering why it didn’t sound like a normal vocoder.
@@twkotb Not quite. From what I saw on a documentary, Everyone was already using it secretly. He lied about it so the public wouldn't find out about a software that made their favorite singers sound good when a lot of them couldn't really sing. It was an industry secret and T-pain let the cat out of the bag. No idea what is accurate, but there is another story.
Give me whole, natural, organic every time. It's all about that character & emotion. Just another example of someone inventing something for "good" and then someone else immediately finds a way to use it for "evil".
Autotune reminds me of the "third umpires" in sport -- where a decision is reviewed by a video referee upstairs. These electronic umpires were originally brought in to remove the "howler" decisions -- the blatantly bad human error decisions that can easily be overturned by a second look, but instead they end up being overused, which ends up destroying the rhythm, flow and humanity of the game. Same goes for music. A vocalist sings a great part, but there's one or two glaring pitchy notes that need a bit of a tweak to tighten them up -- not a problem. But then you end up going through the entire vocal track and putting everything perfectly in tune and time and hey presto, you've killed the song.
Auto-Tune is a natural progression for an industry that wanted to expand the profit base that it cultivated by moving to a tuneless, nearly melody free, genre: Rap. It enables them to market "personalities" that would otherwise lack the ability or talent to get notice in music.
@@inkwisitive Ask any known performer who can actually sing and create melodies to cover a rap song and then ask 95% of high profile rappers to sing a cover of any melodic song and the comparison will be dire. Just listen to Kanye or P Diddy try to sing or check out Snoopy Dog utterly murdering Sad But True on Metallica MTV icons. The talent gap is so evident.
@@ROOKTABULA sounds like you have an automatic bias against rap because you dont understand the culture and reasons as to why its top artists are amongst the greatest.
I disagree with that. Rap is a separate phenomenon. Highly melodically focused music like ballads, just think of all the Adele's, have been as dominant in pop music of past two decades as rap. I would rather use Ed Sheeran as the epitome example of the music industries "perfect product". factory produced, cultureless, generic slop, all heavily tuned and built around whatever ear worm rhythms are in the minds of normies. It's like the equivalent of subway sandwiches. Every combination tastes the same.
A friend came over some years back with a theremin and a quantizer device. While theremin obliges one to slide through all pitches from the starting point to end-point, the quantizer assigned the pitch of the theremin to whatever "note" it was closest to. The end result, while more precise and not as jarring as typical theremin pitch-wobble (and it takes FAR more practice to make a theremin sound musical than it takes to be able to sing in key), reminded me of something I saw the eminent pianist, composer, and conductor Nicholas Slonimsky do in a film once. He played the piano by rolling an orange across the keyboard. To get from note X to note Y, you had to press every single piano key "on the way" to the target note It strikes me that Auto-tune is fundamentally a European scale device. The "stochastic" aspect is predicting which note, out of 12 possible choices, and some number of octaves, the singer is aiming for. Do they, indeed *CAN* they, use Auto-tune in India? The legend is that when Neil Young came to record his vocals for the song "Tears are not Enough" (the Canadian equivalent to the one-bar-per-superstar tunes "We are the World", and "Do They Know It's Christmas"), as he was leaving the studio, someone noted that Young had been a little flat. Young is reputed to have replied "That's my sound, man".
Seeing as my vocals sound like a yak being eaten alive by a panda, I have often had "friends" recommend that I use an auto tuner so I got one and it just sterilised everything... took the soul out so I've just got to try harder.... a lot harder haha.... besides... I'm more about the vibe etc :) Great vid hawk! :)
Justin, an experiment, if you please, to demonstrate; how would auto tune translate your vocals and what would the output sound like compared to your natural singing vocals?
I’ve seen that we’re getting auto-tune ‘enhanced’ re-releases of older records by artists who most definitely didn’t need auto-tune, you know back in the old days when singers needed to sing as near in-pitch as possible, and maybe with a rhythm section that weaves in and out of time - you, that intangible thing called ‘groove’?
The only cookie monster I like... th-cam.com/video/Q5rg_63Shqg/w-d-xo.html (This singer safe in the U.S. but her band trapped back home in Kyiv...good luck to them)
Only discovered your podcast yesterday (Sunday 6th march) and must say your funnier than I thought and actually quite enjoyable!keep up the good work “big” J,outstanding 👍👍👍
Prior to the quarter-century reign of Auto-Tune, any similarly gimmicky production affectation would survive maybe a few years before becoming dated, hacky and vulgar. It boggles the mind that this particularly goofy, eyeroll-inducing effect remains a go-to for artists and producers, and that the public continues to want to hear it.
I'm not much into hip hop but check out songs that are big occasionally just to see what the hype is all about...and here in 2022 it's still used to an insane degree in hip hop.
Pop music has been incredibly stagnant for more than a generation. Up to the 90’s pop music would change it up every 2-5 years. It feels like it hasn’t changed in at least 20 years. I understand auto tune in the most disposable of pop because it might as well be deodorant or car insurance. But in anything attempting to be an expression of an artist it should be shunned and derided as a robber of humanity in music.
Auto tune has the added incentive that it can get the recording done in less takes and requiring less talent. I think that is why people still use it. I can imagine that there is pressure to use it wether you want to or not and your accused of wasting the money and time of the label if you refuse to use it.
I'm not a "Boomer", however some of my all-time favorite vocals have very noticeable audible imperfections, i.e. Joe cocker, Paul McCartney, Phil Collins...which make their vocals (voices) completely unique. Just like the world needs to be. Auto tune is Satin's snack bag!! #LetTheSpitFly
@@johnbickley5954 ... huh...you mean like Pringles, Funions, Slim Jim (if you wanna snap into something, I guess) or more like a Crunch-n-Munch? Not quite sure which from of Satanists appetizer would best describe Phil's "Just A Job To Do" or "Man On A Corner". I need clarification, please.
Always used to use it on the odd notes here and there, a great time saver if you've otherwise got a great performance. Auto is terrible though, always draw it in, and never exactly to the correct note, always spit the difference and get it close, but not quite.
As you sing like an angel,and had to work hard to perfect your craft,I don't blame you for hating these vocal cheaters. Image has become all in pop music.Talent like yours is a rare gem.
Justin! 1. I love you and your work so much. Have since I was a teen. 2. You didn't credit T-Pain! He was instrumental in the beginnings of Auto-Tune. Before Cher. He should be a part of this conversation.
I find it's used mainly in music that I am not drawn to to begin with, so I don't really care that it exists. But maybe I'm not drawn to the music because of the autotune? Hmmm.
I believe autotune has its time and place and, just like any tool, can be used to an advantage or detriment. ps....thanks Justin, for catching the toxic language. Its MUCH appreciated!
@@chrisjackson9626 Thank you! I was going to say I hope he was being sarcastic. "Separates the men from the boys"? Is that supposed to be "toxic" language? Why, because there are masculine words in it? 😂 Rediculous.
I don't think that he was being sarcastic; that would be incredibly emotionally immature and insecure. If you watch enough of these videos, you'll know that isn't a description of Justin Hawkins.
Autotune is a great tool when it’s used as an actual tool to repair something. If there’s a particularly ‘off’ note in an otherwise amazing vocal take it can be used to correct it without effecting the overall dynamic or personality of the singer. Apart from that it’s a lazy go-to for modern producers to pimp average voices…
Spot on, in a nutshell, what I was going to comment. Imagine if you put Auto-Tune on Ella Fitzgerald or Nina Simone, it would be horrible but, like you said, I’ve used similar processes for fixing an off note in a great take.
It became an actual aesthetic. I've heard a lot of young singers whose natural style is partly based on growing up hearing tuning on everything -- not just in terms of being in tune but that sort of 'snapping to the note' robotic sound. Sigh.
it's almost like the new version of "yarling". It's especially rampant among female singers. Coupled with the extreme overuse of melisma, I find even the ones with actual good voices pretty much unlistenable.
It's also an instrument in the right persons hands (just like you can hit someone over the head with a trumpet, or make a beautiful song) like Holly Herndon, 100 Gecs, Oneohtrix Point Never (on Babylon and Black Snow) and a lot of rap artists making it a real aesthetic beyond just "perfecting" things they actually are embracing its ugly side. Even T-Pain!
Justin I'd love if you did a video on how to become more confident in singing. Tips, tricks and, exercises. I'm a guitarist but I get super self conscious when singing solo.
I read enough comments and came across some mixers and engineer types. Well it looks like autotune is widely used in a substantial amount of subtle ways in mastering many genres of music.. Along with a more pronounced effect in who knows how many pop songs to come.. I don't shift much of my attention to concept pop when searching but many do,people seem to be into its novelty. And of course so many effects vocally,musically and methods of tracking will be a part novelties in pop and rock. I guess its all about the type of piece of music and what they will use to achieve an interesting song or sound in what they present.. Its all over the place.
The big problem with autotune is that this isn't how actual human voices sound; voices have a continuous range of frequencies, and this is removed when autotune turns it into a much more digital form - this is almost like an "Uncanny Valley" effect, because it sounds _almost_ human, but at the same time definitely not human at all, so it feels unsettling to a lot of people.
Yep! For some reason I can hear it right away. My ears are really sensitive with some things, and autotube is like mails on a chalkboard. There are songs that use it very sparingly and use it at a part or two to add an effect, and that is fine, but having your voice tuned for the entire song feels off and grating.
Thank you so much for bringing this up. Autotune has become so widely used that I've known bands that didn't even notice their record was autotuned themselves, the producer just... did it without even asking. Another thing that annoys the bejeebus out of me is that autotune is just as easy to use live. Like you said, it entirely takes away any authenticity or 'feel' from voices, recorded and live. What's your take on using autotune live, I wonder?
I have a tc helicon, which has vocoders and hard tune Kanye type effects. It also has a more subtle pitch correction which can be applied without it being obvious. I’m an ok singer but sometimes I struggle micro tone accuracy so I have used it live. It also has a analysis feature which will tell you your accuracy percentage and highlight your “problem notes” which is useful for practice.
I believe the term you were looking for was "diction", Justin. You have been my favorite new TH-cam friend and discovery over the last 3 few months. See you in Minneapolis in a few weeks...on the ice!
I've used autotune on my backing harmonies so they tie in but on main vocals I definitely prefer to stay clear and just go for a great take. Great video👌
I personally rather have my vocal either sharp or flat but with my own intention than have it autotuned. On rare occasions it is used as an effect not to correct & it works. Such as on Sevdaliza's Human Nature. Or the obvious Cher example you mention.
This man should talk about the darkness more often and there songs he would probably get more subscribers from The Darknesses fans, Theres a lot of them.
i used to work with a singer who loved being tuned up and autotuned. so i did it. there was one girl i worked with that didnt need like anything done to it but it was so boring to me. for me, being a producer, i tune myself all the time bcs i am not trained. i just love messing with pitches and tuning bcs its fun. anyone who gives me their vocals knows im gonna have fun with and mix it up. ive even had friends give me voice samples and i will send it through vocoders and pitch it, stretch it, everything. if youve got like a ballad then maybe tuning and vocoding is not appropriate but in my music i always use it bcs its so funnnnnn.
I think the more music you listen to, REALLY listen to, the more your ear almost seeks out things that are different whether those differences are in less common note progressions or in the voice being "off" or whatever it is. And I think it's that knowledge that makes it look like "old people on the internet hate autotune" ... it's not that they (we) hate autotune, it's the over use of a tool to the point of making too much sound too processed and too samey that is the issue, and from a position of having heard Captain Beefheart and Ornette Coleman we can see the character that is being lost in the music. That said, there is some great music still being made and heard and the autotune problem isn't really much of a problem at all.
Problem with autotune is in its use. A little nudge back into key on the odd note that is out is really useful. It is up to the mixer when to say stop and rather than just every few notes tune it 50% closer to the prefect pitch they will just slam the whole thing 100% on the grid
With autotune, I can sing like a "Lark." My neighbors love me for it. Really. They love it so much, that they throw things at my window, wanting me to continue singing I'm assuming?
I prefer natural tones/timbre. However, I like to record fast demos and I do a lot of copying and pasting to fix things. Plus I’m not really a singer (played trombone in college) so having something to tidy up my largely improvised (often flat) vocals is awesome. I would say for “demos” auto tune is really helpful.
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JUSTINE WHY DO YOU NOT PLAY KNOCKERS LIVE ANY LONGER? ITS A BRILLIANT SONG.
Consideriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing…..
I care that you never where a raspberry beret
How were you able to keep making these even when you were on tour lol?
ON BASS? really
Many people feel that pitch is an absolute, and hitting a pitch is hit or miss only, but to those of us who really understand singing, pitch is an area, a radius around a place, and how you arrive in that area, stay in it, and then exit is where all the character of your voice is recorded.
I think this is why the vocal performances we really fall in love with as iconic these days are still the ones that aren't tuned. There are only 12 notes, and so the way that you approach them from either side provides so much of the character of a singer. Much like how a lot of the character of a guitarist is in the way they bend or vibrato notes.
Sure, most of today's popular music is tuned to some extent, or tuned a lot, but if you look at the top 5 albums of the century so far, Adele is #1 (21) and #5 (25) and Norah Jones (Come Away With Me) is #4, with something like 90 million albums sold between those 3. Those are 3 albums that are beloved in part for their amazing, and honest vocal performances, and they are absolutely not tuned.
My philosophy when chasing little details while playing in a band is that the audience WILL be able to hear the difference, even if they wont necessarily identify what the difference is (nor should they bother to try, just enjoy!). And I don't know if the average music fan who bought those albums could tell you that the little (sometimes deliberate) tuning imperfections are a big part of the character of those two women's voices and that it's one of the details that makes those performances on those albums so iconic. But they ABSOLUTELY agreed that those performances were iconic.
Not only is he a really good singer, a brilliant guitar player and also bloody
Brilliant youtuber
Bloody good oppinion mate
@@chadchadsonyt7813 totally agree mate. Unless "oppinion "is a dig about roboticism? Think I'm probably reading far too much into this, and it is indeed, merely a typo. Social media has made me a suspicious bugger... paranoid even. But you're only paranoid, until they are out to get you..
It was a typo wasn't it??? 😀
Yeah he really found his stride rather quickly. Love his content.
I agree!
Really!? Nah fair enough, He really is.
This whole video was worth it to learn that you can use a little bit of autotune on a bass. I have a song I'm working on where the bass guitar I had to use really wasn't the best quality and some of the notes went flat. I was thinking of just copy/pasting the notes that are in pitch to correct it, but I think I'll try a little bit of autotune instead!
Update: worked like a charm. Thanks Justin!
Please learn to adjust the intonation on your bass. You will find some quite expensive basses that are not properly set up. No, sorry: most guitars are not properly set-up.
Your intro jingle never fails to make me laugh. It's so wistfully sad, that the sheer inappropriateness of it's use makes it perfect British comedy. Don't ever stop being you Justin.
the sadness of the final 'again' and the zoom to his poignant expression leaves me deeply moved every time.
I'd love to hear a version with full accompaniment(sp?).
Couldn't have said this better myself, my friend
I've found I need the intro song as much as I need one of my favourite songs,I miss it so much,its a great ploy to get me to watch his videos 🤣
Hell, I always skip the damn thing unless I'm completing a comment on another video. Love the channel though
I'm actually disappointed in myself for not giving The Darkness a real try back in the day. Justin is an absolutely incredible musician.
I was never a fan of falsetto vocals. His channel is great though.
@@chrischamberlain2168 he said he doesn't perform falsetto, he just belts the shit out of his voice. "I scream, basically" he said
Justin, it's the same for guitars. I always hated locking tuners. Brandon What's-his-face from the Raconteurs once talked in an interview about a session he was doing where they tuned up before each punch in. At the end of the session he told the engineer "It all sounds a bit lifeless". The engineer suggested doubling the part on a guitar that was slightly out of tune on purpose. Suddenly it was MUCH better!
Same with effects. Everyone buys "analog" plug-ins with "wow & flutter". Well, guess what the plugins and old tape machines are "fluttering"? The f*cking pitch! S
And same AGAIN with rhythm. As Ringo once said "I'm the damn click track!"
SING OUT OF TUNE PEOPLE! SPEED UP OR SLOW DOWN THE BEAT! Mess it up. Give your song some damn life.
And fuck em if they can’t take it!❤️🔥
Works for drums, too. Wanna know why a double kick setup sounds so much better than a single (for those who are inclined for double-bass)? Because usually each kick is just slightly out-of-tune with the other one. Some drummers will even intentionally tune one slightly out to create better articulation. Hell, some drummers even have two different sized kicks.
No no just do your best cause most of us aren’t that good anyway
Yeah, keep the character in voices. Not quite hitting a note here and there though is quite different from just being completely flat or sharp all the time.
Never going to happen when the majority of tabletop producers are using midi click tracks to create punched in wav files of recorded instruments. Everything gets snapped to the grid
2:55
I'm actually really impressed! Justin Hawkins has always come across as particularly eloquent/elegant and very verbally well-versed (I guess it makes sense for a songwriter, so I suppose the surprise comes from my observation that not all singers/band front men come across as nearly that well spoken) but I didn't expect him to have such a good handle of the meaning of stochastic, which you don't normally see outside of the context of topics in statistics and discrete math (including probability). That's a spot on interpretation considering that stochastic comes from the greek word, -stochos, meaning "guess."
Impressive as always, Justin! :)
"A beautiful thing is never perfect." - Ancient Egyptian Proverb
I always think of autotune as having a similar effect as quantizing all of the drum and guitar parts so they are perfectly on the beat but for vocals. objectively it should be better but sometimes just sucks the life out of the music
Well said and I concur.
So we should have it on guitars, keyboards etc for musicians who can't play the right keys and strings?
All of that crap sucks the life out of the music.
Ah - Like Beat Detective (Auto Tune's deformed cousin)
This is how we'll find robots in the future. Not by picking out the hydrants in the photo, but by people who can tell real singing & playing from BS.
Great tip, tightening the bass with melodyne!
Double tracking a pitchy vocal often turns it into almost a feature piece and somehow sounds better than one pitchy vocal on it's own. I prefer this method to using any form of pitch correction or autotune. I am an indy producer however and I produce accordingly. Not sure it would fly in the hyper polished pop world though.
I liked the way Cher used it to create an effect. And lo! You have just said it as I was typing. Am I channeling Mr Hawkins? Strange as I'm more of a large than a medium these days.
Loving these instructive videos.
Sometimes it’s cool.. other times, it’s used as a crutch. It’s all relative to the listener. I get why people go so hard in the paint and hate it, but it’s another tool to be creative with.
I think the last 3mins of kanye's Runaway are a fine example of its creative use
Frank Ocean as well - I feel like he uses it to deliberately mask emotion, like someone would look away from you if they were talking to you about something deeply personal. Makes it even more emotionally impactful particularly as I know Frank has a great voice and doesn't need it.
You and Beato are the two best TH-camrs!
The voice is a beautiful instrument, and to remove the rawness and human flaws of it is a sin. I'm also not some geezer out there reminiscing about what music used to be, i'm a 16 year old aspiring musician, so maybe our generation has some hope if there's others out there who have the same musical values as me.
not to mention, it's always painfully obvious when autotune has been used so I don't know who they think they're fooling. also, most of the mainstream performers today are lipping or using pitch correcting mics. everyone's afraid of f-ing up. I think producers rely on autotune now just to shorten studio sessions
The most beloved vocal performances of this century are still not autotuned, so I'd say there's no need to lose hope at all. For me, the best verification of this is that 3 of the top 5 albums so far this century (where autotune has been available the whole time) belong to Adele (2) and Norah Jones (1) and none of those vocal performances are tuned, and the vocal performances are definitely the biggest part of what makes those albums iconic. Great songs can be made using autotune, but great vocal performances can't be, and I think we're always going to be drawn to the power of a vocal performance that feels honest and emotive, and the human element of how someone uses their voice is always going to need to be a part of that.
Look forward to hearing Justin discuss one of your songs someday. :)
@@joelecho I couldn't agree more, thankyou so much for this.
fellow 16 year old musician here, hi !! what kind of music do you typically play?
@@imnotokayipromise5940 I mainly play guitar but am proficient in bass, drums, and piano as well. I mainly play rock, metal, and ballads but like to experiment jazz and slower things. How about you?
dude! I am hooked. i have been binging your shows since last night. btw, I can't get enough of the opening jingle! lol
Having done vocal pitch correction, my $0.02
A) if done right with good vocals, you shouldn't notice. It can be a great tool for cleaning up harmonies, the key is to be gentle/subtle and not just dump everything thru the pitch correction.
B) Melodyne is a better pitch correction platform imo
C) Justin is spot on, it is hella useful on bass or even occasionally on guitar leads to clean up a bend that didn't land right. Bass especially though. In our perfect A440 world, bass being even a smidge off can make the whole track sound bad.
I’ve lost count of the amount of vocalists that have asked me to ‘fix their vocal with auto tune’, my answer is always the same “let’s fix it in the vocal booth shall we” 😊
My initial response would by, "Why don't you fix your voice with lessons?"
Or the mute button 🤣
This must be why I love earlier rock bands records a lot, I absolutely love the rawness and human-ness of it. It feels like you can connect, rather than the overly-produced, higher budget later records.
Has anyone else seen the This Is Pop Netflix doco on autotune? I found it fascinating, especially how T-Pain can really sing well without autotune, also the inventor is an interesting guy….
Justin, yet another great video mate, nice to hear someone speak that pretty much always mirrors what’s going on in my head
Im loving this stuff mate! My grandfather taught me to play the spoons but ive never really explored my song writing skills , perhaps autotune will help. Hope your mustache get well soon.
New to the channel & I must say your videos are always spot on, never nasty & of coarse entertaining. Thank you for your insight,
You’re a musical angel, Justin. Keep shining your light ✌️❤️
Loved your music always, had no idea you were this articulate and engaging. Subscribed.
2:25 AHAHAH LEGEND. Can't agree more with everything you said. May true talent endure.
I don't like Autotune at all. I want my singers to be either perfectly and authentically on the notes (think Freddie Mercury) or perfectly and authentically off (think Bob Dylan). Come to think of it, most of my favourite singers are of the "slightly off" persuasion.
Neil Young
Bob Dylan could actually hit his notes. He just does it like he's part kawasaki street bike.
@@th3unmaker hahah that's the best description I've ever heard!!
Dylan is never out of tune. That’s like saying a flute is out of tune because you don’t like the sound of a flute.
The reflective pose in your singing intro…love it…😃👍
I’ve been working with a well known, respected female singer these last six months, on a track for one of her upcoming albums.
The vocal she included in the multitrack, she told me was a demo/guide vocal, to be replaced later with a second “better” take. As a producer/remixer, I’ve been doing this since way before Autotune even existed, so I maybe don’t work in a way some younger musicians do, inasmuch as, I don’t automatically reach for the pitch correction software when I hear something isn’t right bang on the note. Firstly this is just down to personal preference, as I’m from the old school, and believe that imperfections are what give magic to music.
Even though she kept telling me it was a guide vocal, containing lots of imperfect moments, I didn’t once choose to apply any pitch correction, simply ‘cause I personally loved it the way it existed in its raw form. She didn’t stipulate or insist on any pitch correction, and I instinctively felt it wasn’t even a consideration given the style and flavour of her song. To have implemented Autotune would’ve totally robbed the track of so much unexplainable magic.
I often joke with my wife about one of the toughest periods of our life together. I once spent 70 plus days fighting for my life in Intensive Care. I regularly tell my wife how I count my blessings for those traumatic, stolen weeks in ICU, as they fell during October/November/December 1998, which perfectly coincided with the release of Cher’s song Believe.
If one is going to be placed in an induced coma, always keep your fingers crossed that it coincides with the release of a particularly polarising and irksome smash hit!
I’m jesting for comic effect obviously, I don’t really dislike Cher’s song that much. I’ve actually long fancied a crack at a retrospective remix of that song, and have often wondered if the original, raw vocal still exists in its pre Autotuned form. Everybody is so accustomed to the highly processed finished version, I can’t help thinking that an authentically produced late 70s/early 80s Disco or Hi Energy mix featuring a pure, un-Autotuned vocal might possibly sound even better than the 98 version?
I wonder if a raw, un-Autotuned take of Cher’s vocal still exists on good old 2 inch tape somewhere, or if they only archived the vocal in its more recognisable Autotuned form? I’d love to hear it, warts n all.
I just cannot stand hearing my voice off pitch.
Instead of just applying it to a whole vocal track, sparse use on single notes can be useful. When the emotion and character of the voice is just perfect, but the note is just flat enough to sound off. Just use it on that one syllable, and just nudge it enough that it doesn't sound "off" anymore. It can still be flat, just not as flat. I'd like to see auto tuning software get rid of the piano roll underneath the notes. The pitch could still move moved for individual syllables, but engineers would have to rely on their ears to decide which notes to "fix" and by how much. As is, autotune it is a perfect example of mixing with your eyes and not your ears.
What a wonderful Cher impersonation! I absolutely adore it! :D Keep up the good work! You're awesome!
Anthony Keidis sings slightly out of tune on most of the RHCP material, and for myself(and apparently millions of others) that is what makes his delivery unique. No auto tune needed
You should check out Pat Finertys last video.....
California scoop dooby dooba ding dang dong but slightly out of tune
Anthony Kiedis is heavily auto tuned
@@theworkingmancult8936 and also terrible in every measurable way.
@@vtwinbuilder3129 it’s all personal opinion I suppose, I loved em as a teenager, not so much now.
I think autotune is a large reason why there hasn't really been a truly iconic rock voice like Chris Cornell or Freddie Mercury etc since its invention
I tend to agree with your statement. Modern tech makes it easy for anyone to create a song with little to no musical ability whatsoever.
Amy Lee is pretty damn good.
@ Ben Kidd - even if there was, they'd be auto-tuned to death. Case in point - th-cam.com/video/2NiM3AnhwCI/w-d-xo.html
More like what Justin said some time ago about there being too many "experts" in music industry that push only certain types of sound (and looks) towards the ears of the public and overproduce the sound. It's not like there's a lack of talents with trained voices with wide ranges. Also feels like people might actually be tired of regular sounding voices. I remember long time ago some older people told me that it takes no talent to play electric guitars (and other string instruments like violins) with effect pedals and that true musicians should stick with acoustic stuff and that overdriven and distorted electric guitars all sound like meowing cats. And now we are here complaining that younger people like distorted, clipped and altered voices.
there have been... they just aren't as famous. anthony green of saosin and circa survive immediately comes to mind. there's also rody walker of protest the hero. both of those guys have insane ranges and vocal control and their tone is unique and amazing
Absolutely right. Cher used autotune as an effect and not to compensate for any pitch shortcomings, as many do now. Love Mr Blue Sky too - perfect rock/opera/pop and love the effect on Jeff Lynne's voice.
I am really enjoying Justin Hawkins rides again again. my new favorite channel 👌
Love this channel , your break down of Florence and the machine was brilliant I was proper chuckling to myself. Won't be long til you get your 100k subs
The problem is that record companies have been autotuning old recordings as well when they remaster them. There is something to be said about not being totally perfect, it gives the song character, like you said. The harmonies on a song like Roundabout, for example, would not have the feel they do if it was autotuned. Great video Justin!
Very cool! Again as a singer I think I’ve been trapped into feeling like I was not interpreting certain pieces of music correctly, possibly because of these types of effects. If it did anything it made me push a little harder, and train my ear better! Lol! Personally I was always very irritated by the effect, beginning in Cher’s song, And it’s rare that I have much of an appreciation for it… I just love to learn from your videos!
I think it's important to differentiate between auto-tune and manual tuning. To tidy up a vocal track I think a bit of manual tuning on the worst offending notes is alright. But applying auto to the whole track is a bit much unless you're using it as an effect.
It's settled then, Justin is definitely producing my next album.
Your comparison to photoshopped Instagram models is so on point!
I think performance is more important than being totally in tune. I do like that Cher song though and your rendition of it. :D!
Fun fact. The producer of the Cher track told interviewers they’d used a vocoder. IIRC he did this so that every producer wouldn’t immediately copy the effect. Also, it would have been pretty hard to explain in interviews. Most people didn’t know what auto tune was. Most people didn’t even know what a DAW looked like and a lot of people didn’t even know computers were being used instead of tape machines. I remember when that song came out and we were fascinated by it, wondering why it didn’t sound like a normal vocoder.
They didn’t use a daw for the Cher song 😂 it was an outboard unit
@@rockon526 is that like a wax cylinder?
Haha thanks for the info!
@@twkotb Not quite. From what I saw on a documentary, Everyone was already using it secretly. He lied about it so the public wouldn't find out about a software that made their favorite singers sound good when a lot of them couldn't really sing. It was an industry secret and T-pain let the cat out of the bag. No idea what is accurate, but there is another story.
The unit used on the Cher song was a Digitech pedal. it wasn't software, the software hadn't been developed at that point :-)
@@ViceSquad Are you sure? The Antares Autotune outboard unit was around by 1997.
The apple juice and vocal comparison - brilliant! 🤘🏼
That shirt is fire! Thanks Justin for all these vids!
That’s the best explanation of how a vocoder works I’ve ever heard!
Give me whole, natural, organic every time. It's all about that character & emotion. Just another example of someone inventing something for "good" and then someone else immediately finds a way to use it for "evil".
Autotune reminds me of the "third umpires" in sport -- where a decision is reviewed by a video referee upstairs. These electronic umpires were originally brought in to remove the "howler" decisions -- the blatantly bad human error decisions that can easily be overturned by a second look, but instead they end up being overused, which ends up destroying the rhythm, flow and humanity of the game. Same goes for music. A vocalist sings a great part, but there's one or two glaring pitchy notes that need a bit of a tweak to tighten them up -- not a problem. But then you end up going through the entire vocal track and putting everything perfectly in tune and time and hey presto, you've killed the song.
Ha! Nice analogy.
I HATE replay's in football. "Oh, the ref lost the game for us!" Yeah. IT'S A FRIGGIN' GAME! Get over it!
Auto-Tune is a natural progression for an industry that wanted to expand the profit base that it cultivated by moving to a tuneless, nearly melody free, genre: Rap.
It enables them to market "personalities" that would otherwise lack the ability or talent to get notice in music.
There are talentless artists in every genre - I love rock music but rap music’s doing well right now because it’s taking more risks
@@inkwisitive Ask any known performer who can actually sing and create melodies to cover a rap song and then ask 95% of high profile rappers to sing a cover of any melodic song and the comparison will be dire. Just listen to Kanye or P Diddy try to sing or check out Snoopy Dog utterly murdering Sad But True on Metallica MTV icons. The talent gap is so evident.
@@ROOKTABULA I'm certain Celine Dion would be very convincing doing her version of Bombs Over Baghdad
@@ROOKTABULA sounds like you have an automatic bias against rap because you dont understand the culture and reasons as to why its top artists are amongst the greatest.
I disagree with that.
Rap is a separate phenomenon.
Highly melodically focused music like ballads, just think of all the Adele's, have been as dominant in pop music of past two decades as rap.
I would rather use Ed Sheeran as the epitome example of the music industries "perfect product".
factory produced, cultureless, generic slop, all heavily tuned and built around whatever ear worm rhythms are in the minds of normies.
It's like the equivalent of subway sandwiches. Every combination tastes the same.
A friend came over some years back with a theremin and a quantizer device. While theremin obliges one to slide through all pitches from the starting point to end-point, the quantizer assigned the pitch of the theremin to whatever "note" it was closest to. The end result, while more precise and not as jarring as typical theremin pitch-wobble (and it takes FAR more practice to make a theremin sound musical than it takes to be able to sing in key), reminded me of something I saw the eminent pianist, composer, and conductor Nicholas Slonimsky do in a film once. He played the piano by rolling an orange across the keyboard. To get from note X to note Y, you had to press every single piano key "on the way" to the target note
It strikes me that Auto-tune is fundamentally a European scale device. The "stochastic" aspect is predicting which note, out of 12 possible choices, and some number of octaves, the singer is aiming for. Do they, indeed *CAN* they, use Auto-tune in India?
The legend is that when Neil Young came to record his vocals for the song "Tears are not Enough" (the Canadian equivalent to the one-bar-per-superstar tunes "We are the World", and "Do They Know It's Christmas"), as he was leaving the studio, someone noted that Young had been a little flat. Young is reputed to have replied "That's my sound, man".
As an effect (a la Cher) I think it is pretty fun, but yeah, I am in the Death Cab/Aguillera camp.
David Bowie... his voice was frequently off pitch and harmonies where he doubled his voice weren't perfect... but my God he was amazing!
These videos are very enjoyable. You are immensely talented!
Seeing as my vocals sound like a yak being eaten alive by a panda, I have often had "friends" recommend that I use an auto tuner so I got one and it just sterilised everything... took the soul out so I've just got to try harder.... a lot harder haha.... besides... I'm more about the vibe etc :)
Great vid hawk! :)
Justin, an experiment, if you please, to demonstrate; how would auto tune translate your vocals and what would the output sound like compared to your natural singing vocals?
When you can hear it, then it sucks and I'm sad to say that I hear it a lot.
I’ve seen that we’re getting auto-tune ‘enhanced’ re-releases of older records by artists who most definitely didn’t need auto-tune, you know back in the old days when singers needed to sing as near in-pitch as possible, and maybe with a rhythm section that weaves in and out of time - you, that intangible thing called ‘groove’?
I'd like to hear Justin's thoughts on the use of Cookie Monster vocals in modern metal?
Burping 😆 That's what it sounds like to me. I get so disappointed when I hear a fantastic guitar, then the singer starts burping!
The only cookie monster I like... th-cam.com/video/Q5rg_63Shqg/w-d-xo.html (This singer safe in the U.S. but her band trapped back home in Kyiv...good luck to them)
yeah, 90% of metal is either horrendous growling or obvious Dickinson copies. Such a shame as metal has such potential.
Spot on, Mr Hawkins! Spot on! 👍
Only discovered your podcast yesterday (Sunday 6th march) and must say your funnier than I thought and actually quite enjoyable!keep up the good work “big” J,outstanding 👍👍👍
Prior to the quarter-century reign of Auto-Tune, any similarly gimmicky production affectation would survive maybe a few years before becoming dated, hacky and vulgar. It boggles the mind that this particularly goofy, eyeroll-inducing effect remains a go-to for artists and producers, and that the public continues to want to hear it.
I'm not much into hip hop but check out songs that are big occasionally just to see what the hype is all about...and here in 2022 it's still used to an insane degree in hip hop.
Pop music has been incredibly stagnant for more than a generation. Up to the 90’s pop music would change it up every 2-5 years. It feels like it hasn’t changed in at least 20 years. I understand auto tune in the most disposable of pop because it might as well be deodorant or car insurance. But in anything attempting to be an expression of an artist it should be shunned and derided as a robber of humanity in music.
@@Skoora Absolutely - there's not much evolution in rock/pop music production since Pro Tools became industry standard.
Yeah,Trap beat sounds fall exactly in the same category
Auto tune has the added incentive that it can get the recording done in less takes and requiring less talent. I think that is why people still use it. I can imagine that there is pressure to use it wether you want to or not and your accused of wasting the money and time of the label if you refuse to use it.
The modern voice of wisdom! I love it! Thanks Justin!
I love the channel and your discussions, Justin. I am a singer and songwriter and do not enjoy Autotune.
What a cracking chap. Hats off ,to his natural ,un filtered self 👏👏
I'm not a "Boomer", however some of my all-time favorite vocals have very noticeable audible imperfections, i.e. Joe cocker, Paul McCartney, Phil Collins...which make their vocals (voices) completely unique. Just like the world needs to be. Auto tune is Satin's snack bag!! #LetTheSpitFly
McCartney and all the Beatles (except maybe Ringo) were pretty damn near perfect pitchwise.
Phil Collins is Satan’s snack bag!
Agree. That's what makes it better. They sound like actual human beings.
@@johnbickley5954 ... huh...you mean like Pringles, Funions, Slim Jim (if you wanna snap into something, I guess) or more like a Crunch-n-Munch? Not quite sure which from of Satanists appetizer would best describe Phil's "Just A Job To Do" or "Man On A Corner". I need clarification, please.
Always used to use it on the odd notes here and there, a great time saver if you've otherwise got a great performance. Auto is terrible though, always draw it in, and never exactly to the correct note, always spit the difference and get it close, but not quite.
As you sing like an angel,and had to work hard to perfect your craft,I don't blame you for hating these vocal cheaters. Image has become all in pop music.Talent like yours is a rare gem.
Justin! 1. I love you and your work so much. Have since I was a teen. 2. You didn't credit T-Pain! He was instrumental in the beginnings of Auto-Tune. Before Cher. He should be a part of this conversation.
I think when it's used as an obvious effect it's cool! I love that Cher tune, all though I couldn't admit it at the time, lol!
I find it's used mainly in music that I am not drawn to to begin with, so I don't really care that it exists.
But maybe I'm not drawn to the music because of the autotune? Hmmm.
Agreed as always, Justin
I believe autotune has its time and place and, just like any tool, can be used to an advantage or detriment.
ps....thanks Justin, for catching the toxic language. Its MUCH appreciated!
I was hoping he was being sarcastic regarding the toxic language. The fact people feel they have to self sensor is as irritating as autotune.
@@chrisjackson9626 Thank you! I was going to say I hope he was being sarcastic. "Separates the men from the boys"? Is that supposed to be "toxic" language? Why, because there are masculine words in it? 😂 Rediculous.
I liked that, too.
I don't think that he was being sarcastic; that would be incredibly emotionally immature and insecure. If you watch enough of these videos, you'll know that isn't a description of Justin Hawkins.
@@miaschu8175 he is a true gentleman, in my experience,so I absolutely agree 👍
Thanks for making me feel better about my sharp or flat vocals, Justin! 😂
Wow, I am amazed how smart you are, not that I thought less it's just your very intelligent, well informed and punctual, I love it
Normally I’d be against autotune, but I’ve heard it used on Ian Brown, now I’m all for it!
He's un-autotunable
Hahaha 😂
Autotune is a great tool when it’s used as an actual tool to repair something. If there’s a particularly ‘off’ note in an otherwise amazing vocal take it can be used to correct it without effecting the overall dynamic or personality of the singer. Apart from that it’s a lazy go-to for modern producers to pimp average voices…
Spot on, in a nutshell, what I was going to comment. Imagine if you put Auto-Tune on Ella Fitzgerald or Nina Simone, it would be horrible but, like you said, I’ve used similar processes for fixing an off note in a great take.
@@chitlun Have you seen Adam Neely and Marc Ajax fun auto correction overkill videos on TH-cam? They’ve done Jackson, Plant, Mercury etc. 🤣
@@michaelantonyaustin I’ve not watched them yet but I’m aware of their existence l. I’ll have to give ‘em a bash 👍
It became an actual aesthetic. I've heard a lot of young singers whose natural style is partly based on growing up hearing tuning on everything -- not just in terms of being in tune but that sort of 'snapping to the note' robotic sound. Sigh.
YES!
it's almost like the new version of "yarling". It's especially rampant among female singers. Coupled with the extreme overuse of melisma, I find even the ones with actual good voices pretty much unlistenable.
It's also an instrument in the right persons hands (just like you can hit someone over the head with a trumpet, or make a beautiful song) like Holly Herndon, 100 Gecs, Oneohtrix Point Never (on Babylon and Black Snow) and a lot of rap artists making it a real aesthetic beyond just "perfecting" things they actually are embracing its ugly side. Even T-Pain!
Justin I'd love if you did a video on how to become more confident in singing. Tips, tricks and, exercises. I'm a guitarist but I get super self conscious when singing solo.
Justin: Auto tune is great on bass
Every bass player : 😟
I read enough comments and came across some mixers and engineer types.
Well it looks like autotune is widely used in a substantial amount of subtle ways in mastering many genres of music..
Along with a more pronounced effect in who knows how many pop songs to come..
I don't shift much of my attention to concept pop when searching but many do,people seem to be into its novelty.
And of course so many effects vocally,musically and methods of tracking will be a part novelties in pop and rock.
I guess its all about the type of piece of music and what they will use to achieve an interesting song or sound in what they present..
Its all over the place.
The big problem with autotune is that this isn't how actual human voices sound;
voices have a continuous range of frequencies, and this is removed when autotune turns it into a much more digital form - this is almost like an "Uncanny Valley" effect, because it sounds _almost_ human, but at the same time definitely not human at all, so it feels unsettling to a lot of people.
Yep! For some reason I can hear it right away. My ears are really sensitive with some things, and autotube is like mails on a chalkboard. There are songs that use it very sparingly and use it at a part or two to add an effect, and that is fine, but having your voice tuned for the entire song feels off and grating.
Thank you so much for bringing this up. Autotune has become so widely used that I've known bands that didn't even notice their record was autotuned themselves, the producer just... did it without even asking. Another thing that annoys the bejeebus out of me is that autotune is just as easy to use live. Like you said, it entirely takes away any authenticity or 'feel' from voices, recorded and live. What's your take on using autotune live, I wonder?
I'm surprised at how many supposed musicians don't have an ear trained up enough to hear pitch correction on their own voice.
I have a tc helicon, which has vocoders and hard tune Kanye type effects. It also has a more subtle pitch correction which can be applied without it being obvious. I’m an ok singer but sometimes I struggle micro tone accuracy so I have used it live. It also has a analysis feature which will tell you your accuracy percentage and highlight your “problem notes” which is useful for practice.
I believe the term you were looking for was "diction", Justin. You have been my favorite new TH-cam friend and discovery over the last 3 few months. See you in Minneapolis in a few weeks...on the ice!
I've used autotune on my backing harmonies so they tie in but on main vocals I definitely prefer to stay clear and just go for a great take.
Great video👌
Right on Brother Justin!
Love the green and black lumber Jack shirt
That's a great overview of vocoding and the difference with Autotune ©. I think the word you were looking for with the analysis of vocals to apply to the filtering was possibly 'formants'? I believe vocoders analyse the formants and use these to apply the filters to the carrier signal. I may be wrong though. I'm sure someone will point out if I am.
I personally rather have my vocal either sharp or flat but with my own intention than have it autotuned. On rare occasions it is used as an effect not to correct & it works. Such as on Sevdaliza's Human Nature. Or the obvious Cher example you mention.
This man is perfect
This man should talk about the darkness more often and there songs he would probably get more subscribers from The Darknesses fans, Theres a lot of them.
Not all of us can sing like you Justin!!! 😂
I can tell from the moments between the second "again" and the strum that JH does TM.
i used to work with a singer who loved being tuned up and autotuned. so i did it. there was one girl i worked with that didnt need like anything done to it but it was so boring to me. for me, being a producer, i tune myself all the time bcs i am not trained. i just love messing with pitches and tuning bcs its fun. anyone who gives me their vocals knows im gonna have fun with and mix it up. ive even had friends give me voice samples and i will send it through vocoders and pitch it, stretch it, everything. if youve got like a ballad then maybe tuning and vocoding is not appropriate but in my music i always use it bcs its so funnnnnn.
I think the more music you listen to, REALLY listen to, the more your ear almost seeks out things that are different whether those differences are in less common note progressions or in the voice being "off" or whatever it is. And I think it's that knowledge that makes it look like "old people on the internet hate autotune" ... it's not that they (we) hate autotune, it's the over use of a tool to the point of making too much sound too processed and too samey that is the issue, and from a position of having heard Captain Beefheart and Ornette Coleman we can see the character that is being lost in the music.
That said, there is some great music still being made and heard and the autotune problem isn't really much of a problem at all.
I’ve never used auto tune but I do use melodyne to nudge my vocals in the right direction but I’ve never set it to its maximum
Problem with autotune is in its use. A little nudge back into key on the odd note that is out is really useful. It is up to the mixer when to say stop and rather than just every few notes tune it 50% closer to the prefect pitch they will just slam the whole thing 100% on the grid
With autotune, I can sing like a "Lark." My neighbors love me for it. Really. They love it so much, that they throw things at my window, wanting me to continue singing I'm assuming?
I prefer natural tones/timbre. However, I like to record fast demos and I do a lot of copying and pasting to fix things. Plus I’m not really a singer (played trombone in college) so having something to tidy up my largely improvised (often flat) vocals is awesome. I would say for “demos” auto tune is really helpful.
Love it great takes.
yeah baby