Marvelous ! He wore a hole in the rug, thats why the floor is bare, soon that too will be worn away. Excellent demonstration. In forty years of my training that was one of the best executions of Eight Trigrams Boxing I've ever seen. Thank you so much for sharing. Peace. Laoshr #60 Ching Yi Kung Fu Association
If it's any help... The Forms (listed in the order demonstrated in this video)... The 2 Mother Palm Forms... 1) Single-Palm Change* 2) Double-Palm Change* The 8 Animal Forms**... 1) Lion Form 2) Unicorn Form 3) Sparrowhawk Form 4) Snake Form 5) Dragon Form 6) Monkey Form 7) Phoenix Form 8) Bear Form * = Think of 'Single-Palm' as 'Single-Direction' (both your hands flowing in approximately the same direction); then think of 'Double-Palm' as 'Two Different Directions' (your hands moving in different directions, such as in a Tearing Motion); & 'Change' essentially means that the form is set up for the purpose of equal practice on both right & left sides of one's body to end-up 'Changing the Direction of Walking on the Circle' [as in going from Counterclockwise to Clockwise on the circle; for instance: if, while walking counterclockwise, you start a form, then at the completion of the form you'll be walking clockwise; this is for practice purposes only; for use in self-defense you would use whatever portion or portions of a form - with or without variation/adjustment/adaptation - as you see fit & in any order that you see fit; note that it may be possible to use some different movements in the order presented within a form as there are combos within the forms; when using a form in self-defense & you reach a stopping point short of completing the form, no sweat - simply begin a different movement; for Baguazhang is - functionally speaking - a mix of planing & adapting (ad-libing); for some short & simple plans are good to have & practice: like plans how to Enter, that is, how to remove a foe's guard from out of your way in order to strike a primary target]. ** = There are some differences in this video from how I was taught, but it's mostly the same (& I like this guy's Unicorn Form better than what I was shown) - & this is okay because Baguazhang is all about changing. Note: Generally the Chinese Internal Martial artist doesn't move as if to exactly mimic an animal or use one's imagination to guess how a mythical critter might move & then move that way; but rather they might name movements based upon what they sort of look like to them - or remind them of - be it s real animal or a myth from a popular story (some techniques even have human-like names - & one may find moves within a form named after animals different from the form's name: don't sweat this; for instance, the move called 'Green Dragon Moves Its Tail' can be found in every form, although some call it a Black Dragon or choose to call it a Blue or a Blue-Green Dragon: & it may seem a bit odd to be found in say the Bear Form, but it's just how it is - unless you choose to change the names, which you can; & some of the English names of the Forms aren't necessarily literal translations; for I've seen Phoenix - Tai - also translated as Ostrich & even Vulture; plus the Chinese human-like names might not mean anything to a westerner, so changing the name may be a good thing; it really doesn't matter what names one uses - the general idea is to use names to help one to remember the movements: that's all).
@@MrTodd2000 I don't know how many styles & sub-styles/style-variations exist in the Baguazhang lineage(s); so, I can't answer your question as asked; however, I'll tell you of my limited experience with the Sun Style Baguazhang (SSB) & the Yin Style Baguazhang (YSB) [I do not have full knowledge of either art; rather I have very limited knowledge of both - & each have varying lineages which might not fit my descriptions]: The YSB that I'm most familiar with is approximately 8 times more quantitative than SSB that I'm most familiar with due to it being 8 complete fighting systems plus 2 incomplete systems (each with several forms; & there are many medical practices as well - which I know practically nothing about) compared to SSB's one system (of ten forms); so, in that sense one would say that SSB is much easier to learn because there's much less to learn (if one were to learn everything in both systems, that is); but it's rare for any YSB practitioner to know the complete art: most only end up fully practicing one system or else gleaning from a few systems to make up their choice method of fighting. A strength of YSB is having much to choose from, but it's also a weakness as it can take much time just to figure out what you like best (what best fits you). IMO YSB circle-walking footwork is more natural & easier to learn & practice where changing direction on the circle is concerned than SSB footwork, but YSB also has a square footwork that's not natural & takes some getting used to (& that is its main fighting footwork). SSB's circle-walking footwork is done in a complex manner by comparison & there are two footwork variants that I know of (one keeps the stepping foot close to the ground while the other is a high step method; both are fighting footwork methods). SSB's footwork is for the most part simply alternating toe-in (like a pigeon) or toe-out (like a duck) type steps, but it's practiced with an almost ritualistic series of upper-body motions (so one never quickly changes direction on the circle as in YSB): the strength is it reinforces these movements so much that they're quickly learned; & the weakness IMO is that it stiffles quick change of direction on the circle; but circle-walking, especially large circle-walking is more of an exercise & a teacher's method to see & correct all students much more easily than if the students were in rank & file. Large circle-walking has various other usages as well, but I won't get into that now. Both YSB & SSB have striking & grappling, but SSB stems from a famed grappler (so it has a lot of subtle & not so subtle wrestling moves - & sneaky hits) & YSB stems from a famed kicker who supposedly preferred to start off with hand strikes & finish off with kicks (YSB has a reputation for being a hard-hitting Baguazhang style). After practicing SSB footwork for decades before practicing YSB, I prefer it to the square-stepping of YSB (but I don't toss out the square-stepping method as it has merit: I just need time to get used to it & fugure out when & where it might be an advantage over SSB's method). I'm poor at wrestling, so I love some of YSB striking methods (but I don't dismiss all of SSB's wrestling methods for some are jewels that even I can pull off easily). YSB's Dragon Fighting System is closest to SSB, so it was easy for me to pick up. Much of YSB's Phoenix Fighting System is like how my dad used to fight, so I picked up on much of that fairly quickly. I've also borrowed a few techniques that I like from YSB's Rooster, Bear, Lion, & Unicorn Fighting Systems (because they closely matched - & seemed better than - some other arts' methods that I've already had some experience with). Having had the prior SSB Forms Practice - & my dad swatting me around as a kid - made picking up what I did from YSB much easier than if I hadn't had such muscle-memory & other memories. I've seen some Gao & other Baguazgang styles demonstrated: it's all good stuff (but I recommend concentrating on practicing standing & line drills plus various footwork* the most, regardless the style, for fighting purposes; & flowery forms are good for range of motion & flexibility/fluidity/balance exercise). * = Try to learn as many footwork systems as you reasonably can because terrain & circumstances vary greatly - especially if you move around a lot - & appropriate footwork can be essential to success.
@@michaeltaylor8501 awesome thx brother, I have studied Yin ( Gong ) for awhile but my linage has Lo Han kung fu mixed in and have several longer forms along with numerous weapons forms. I believe Yin Fu was a lo han master before learing bagua.
@@MrTodd2000 I think that's correct: I heard it as a Shaolin practitioner. My Sun instruction was by Tim Cartmell who learned from Sun Lu Tang's daughter if I recall correctly. And I wanted to add that while Sun Style Baguazhang (SSB) has many similarities to the Dragon Fighting System Yin Style Baguazhang (YSB) of the Yin - Men - Xie - He lineage of YSB, these two systems are not the same. Besides the difference in footwork, SSB uses whipping strikes like those of YSB's Rooster Fighting System & SSB favors a Ward-Off-Like strike that appears to be a signature move of YSB's Phoenix Fighting System. Every upper-body movement I've seen of YSB's Dragon Fighting System I've practiced in doing SSB's forms. Note: All of my YSB instruction has been on-line watching & listening to Xie, his old-time student turned instructor, Liu, & He who learned from Liu first, & then Xie (near the end of Xie's life: they were video documenting Xie, but he passed away after only recording very little: but his short discussions were gems). Liu's instruction had occassional gems (things he says & strikes he shows that He doesn't talk about in his lessons): he was convinced that Yin was primarily a striker & kicker, that the wrestling moves were mostly added my Men. Liu was a fighter & liked sparring & favored basic standing-drills, line-drills, & cotton-ball kicking-practice over the more flowery circle-walking practice for developing fighting ability (& his favorite fighting systems were a mix of Lion, Phoenix, & Dragon - this last system he said was the easiest to practice into old age of the 3 due to the main arm position held while circle-walking); Xie's favorite was Phoenix - he wouldn't fight with any other system (it favors someone with quick movement: for what I know of it, it's a very good system, overall, with only one 'iffy' whirling move that's great if you can pull it off, which I can't do well: Liu, who could pull it off, said it was an unnecessarily risky movement that one could skip if not comfortable with it). IMO, it appears that He has skills, but he's not an experienced fighter like Xie or Liu were. He occassionally makes some terrible rookie errors (something I never saw Liu do): one error that I've seen him repeat is to spin a foe behind him without even a chance at having harmed the foe - leaving himself vulnerable to an attack from his rear (this tells me that he's either not a fighter, or he just keeps trying to practice some move that he was taught but still has great trouble pulling off: & what that might be I don't know); otherwise, He is fairly slick with his moves. He brings up some good points in his instruction - & his instruction is fairly good & well-rounded, but incomplete (he only shows the 3 main stikes of 7 strikes in each system & omits the kicks which he teaches separately in a kicking lesson; BTW: YSB's Monkey Fighting System is primarily a kicking system, but last I checked He didn't yet have that system available in on-line lesson format). I gleaned what I could that caught my attention, & I took notes. Then I practiced some things from YSB & added it to what I was already comfortable with from SSB (& modified some of my old practice methods with YSB methods I liked better - & did some same old type practice with some new insight, making for better practice*). * = At the time I was learning SSB I was mostly practicing forms & unlike most who study I wasn't already a skilled fighter, so I didn't understand much of the moves. YSB showed me what many of those movements could be used for. Before finding YSB I was only able to figure out a few excellent uses for the SSB moves.
@@michaeltaylor8501 that is awesome to hear. I actually spoke with Tim 1x years ago and he seemed like an awesome person. But, I am too far away. I wish i could find a Sun bagua teacher .......
Can you please tell me what this gentleman's name is , a little about him, if he is still with us on this earth, I love his Bagua so simple not fast, but that could be because of his age, beautiful form.
Very nice! Another interesting variation of Sun Lutang's Bagua Quan. Especially how he did the 5th palm which is the snake (in this case snake palm was done as the 6th palm) where it was followed up with a kick.
TheHeatwole, the same thing. Since 1990 study Sun's form. Photos from His book and videos are far away from real understanding of His art. I suppose that Qing long suo wei mostly is not performed by perfomers. Thing is in rotation of the wrist. As scooping.
I completely agree. All perform forms according to the pictures in the book. There are no direct explanations. It remains to be regretted that Sun Lutang's daughter did not leave educational videos and books on Sun Bagua.
![[GSL] UK Bagua sept2012](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/McAIR1Fp2iM/mqdefault.jpg)
Who is this excellent gentleman. The most helpful footage I have ever seen. A gift. Thanks.
I have no idea. Sorry. Uploaded from chinese sites with no description.
Excellent! Thank you!!
Marvelous ! He wore a hole in the rug, thats why the floor is bare, soon that too will be worn away. Excellent demonstration. In forty years of my training that was one of the best executions of Eight Trigrams Boxing I've ever seen. Thank you so much for sharing. Peace.
Laoshr #60
Ching Yi Kung Fu Association
Glad you liked it!
If it's any help...
The Forms (listed in the order demonstrated in this video)...
The 2 Mother Palm Forms...
1) Single-Palm Change*
2) Double-Palm Change*
The 8 Animal Forms**...
1) Lion Form
2) Unicorn Form
3) Sparrowhawk Form
4) Snake Form
5) Dragon Form
6) Monkey Form
7) Phoenix Form
8) Bear Form
* = Think of 'Single-Palm' as 'Single-Direction' (both your hands flowing in approximately the same direction); then think of 'Double-Palm' as 'Two Different Directions' (your hands moving in different directions, such as in a Tearing Motion); & 'Change' essentially means that the form is set up for the purpose of equal practice on both right & left sides of one's body to end-up 'Changing the Direction of Walking on the Circle' [as in going from Counterclockwise to Clockwise on the circle; for instance: if, while walking counterclockwise, you start a form, then at the completion of the form you'll be walking clockwise; this is for practice purposes only; for use in self-defense you would use whatever portion or portions of a form - with or without variation/adjustment/adaptation - as you see fit & in any order that you see fit; note that it may be possible to use some different movements in the order presented within a form as there are combos within the forms; when using a form in self-defense & you reach a stopping point short of completing the form, no sweat - simply begin a different movement; for Baguazhang is - functionally speaking - a mix of planing & adapting (ad-libing); for some short & simple plans are good to have & practice: like plans how to Enter, that is, how to remove a foe's guard from out of your way in order to strike a primary target].
** = There are some differences in this video from how I was taught, but it's mostly the same (& I like this guy's Unicorn Form better than what I was shown) - & this is okay because Baguazhang is all about changing.
Note: Generally the Chinese Internal Martial artist doesn't move as if to exactly mimic an animal or use one's imagination to guess how a mythical critter might move & then move that way; but rather they might name movements based upon what they sort of look like to them - or remind them of - be it s real animal or a myth from a popular story (some techniques even have human-like names - & one may find moves within a form named after animals different from the form's name: don't sweat this; for instance, the move called 'Green Dragon Moves Its Tail' can be found in every form, although some call it a Black Dragon or choose to call it a Blue or a Blue-Green Dragon: & it may seem a bit odd to be found in say the Bear Form, but it's just how it is - unless you choose to change the names, which you can; & some of the English names of the Forms aren't necessarily literal translations; for I've seen Phoenix - Tai - also translated as Ostrich & even Vulture; plus the Chinese human-like names might not mean anything to a westerner, so changing the name may be a good thing; it really doesn't matter what names one uses - the general idea is to use names to help one to remember the movements: that's all).
I've studied Gong Baguazhang but have heard that Sun stye is the easiest to learn. Is that true ?? thx !
@@MrTodd2000
I don't know how many styles & sub-styles/style-variations exist in the Baguazhang lineage(s); so, I can't answer your question as asked; however, I'll tell you of my limited experience with the Sun Style Baguazhang (SSB) & the Yin Style Baguazhang (YSB) [I do not have full knowledge of either art; rather I have very limited knowledge of both - & each have varying lineages which might not fit my descriptions]:
The YSB that I'm most familiar with is approximately 8 times more quantitative than SSB that I'm most familiar with due to it being 8 complete fighting systems plus 2 incomplete systems (each with several forms; & there are many medical practices as well - which I know practically nothing about) compared to SSB's one system (of ten forms); so, in that sense one would say that SSB is much easier to learn because there's much less to learn (if one were to learn everything in both systems, that is); but it's rare for any YSB practitioner to know the complete art: most only end up fully practicing one system or else gleaning from a few systems to make up their choice method of fighting. A strength of YSB is having much to choose from, but it's also a weakness as it can take much time just to figure out what you like best (what best fits you).
IMO YSB circle-walking footwork is more natural & easier to learn & practice where changing direction on the circle is concerned than SSB footwork, but YSB also has a square footwork that's not natural & takes some getting used to (& that is its main fighting footwork). SSB's circle-walking footwork is done in a complex manner by comparison & there are two footwork variants that I know of (one keeps the stepping foot close to the ground while the other is a high step method; both are fighting footwork methods). SSB's footwork is for the most part simply alternating toe-in (like a pigeon) or toe-out (like a duck) type steps, but it's practiced with an almost ritualistic series of upper-body motions (so one never quickly changes direction on the circle as in YSB): the strength is it reinforces these movements so much that they're quickly learned; & the weakness IMO is that it stiffles quick change of direction on the circle; but circle-walking, especially large circle-walking is more of an exercise & a teacher's method to see & correct all students much more easily than if the students were in rank & file. Large circle-walking has various other usages as well, but I won't get into that now.
Both YSB & SSB have striking & grappling, but SSB stems from a famed grappler (so it has a lot of subtle & not so subtle wrestling moves - & sneaky hits) & YSB stems from a famed kicker who supposedly preferred to start off with hand strikes & finish off with kicks (YSB has a reputation for being a hard-hitting Baguazhang style).
After practicing SSB footwork for decades before practicing YSB, I prefer it to the square-stepping of YSB (but I don't toss out the square-stepping method as it has merit: I just need time to get used to it & fugure out when & where it might be an advantage over SSB's method). I'm poor at wrestling, so I love some of YSB striking methods (but I don't dismiss all of SSB's wrestling methods for some are jewels that even I can pull off easily).
YSB's Dragon Fighting System is closest to SSB, so it was easy for me to pick up. Much of YSB's Phoenix Fighting System is like how my dad used to fight, so I picked up on much of that fairly quickly. I've also borrowed a few techniques that I like from YSB's Rooster, Bear, Lion, & Unicorn Fighting Systems (because they closely matched - & seemed better than - some other arts' methods that I've already had some experience with).
Having had the prior SSB Forms Practice - & my dad swatting me around as a kid - made picking up what I did from YSB much easier than if I hadn't had such muscle-memory & other memories.
I've seen some Gao & other Baguazgang styles demonstrated: it's all good stuff (but I recommend concentrating on practicing standing & line drills plus various footwork* the most, regardless the style, for fighting purposes; & flowery forms are good for range of motion & flexibility/fluidity/balance exercise).
* = Try to learn as many footwork systems as you reasonably can because terrain & circumstances vary greatly - especially if you move around a lot - & appropriate footwork can be essential to success.
@@michaeltaylor8501 awesome thx brother, I have studied Yin ( Gong ) for awhile but my linage has Lo Han kung fu mixed in and have several longer forms along with numerous weapons forms. I believe Yin Fu was a lo han master before learing bagua.
@@MrTodd2000
I think that's correct: I heard it as a Shaolin practitioner.
My Sun instruction was by Tim Cartmell who learned from Sun Lu Tang's daughter if I recall correctly. And I wanted to add that while Sun Style Baguazhang (SSB) has many similarities to the Dragon Fighting System Yin Style Baguazhang (YSB) of the Yin - Men - Xie - He lineage of YSB, these two systems are not the same. Besides the difference in footwork, SSB uses whipping strikes like those of YSB's Rooster Fighting System & SSB favors a Ward-Off-Like strike that appears to be a signature move of YSB's Phoenix Fighting System. Every upper-body movement I've seen of YSB's Dragon Fighting System I've practiced in doing SSB's forms.
Note: All of my YSB instruction has been on-line watching & listening to Xie, his old-time student turned instructor, Liu, & He who learned from Liu first, & then Xie (near the end of Xie's life: they were video documenting Xie, but he passed away after only recording very little: but his short discussions were gems).
Liu's instruction had occassional gems (things he says & strikes he shows that He doesn't talk about in his lessons): he was convinced that Yin was primarily a striker & kicker, that the wrestling moves were mostly added my Men. Liu was a fighter & liked sparring & favored basic standing-drills, line-drills, & cotton-ball kicking-practice over the more flowery circle-walking practice for developing fighting ability (& his favorite fighting systems were a mix of Lion, Phoenix, & Dragon - this last system he said was the easiest to practice into old age of the 3 due to the main arm position held while circle-walking); Xie's favorite was Phoenix - he wouldn't fight with any other system (it favors someone with quick movement: for what I know of it, it's a very good system, overall, with only one 'iffy' whirling move that's great if you can pull it off, which I can't do well: Liu, who could pull it off, said it was an unnecessarily risky movement that one could skip if not comfortable with it).
IMO, it appears that He has skills, but he's not an experienced fighter like Xie or Liu were. He occassionally makes some terrible rookie errors (something I never saw Liu do): one error that I've seen him repeat is to spin a foe behind him without even a chance at having harmed the foe - leaving himself vulnerable to an attack from his rear (this tells me that he's either not a fighter, or he just keeps trying to practice some move that he was taught but still has great trouble pulling off: & what that might be I don't know); otherwise, He is fairly slick with his moves. He brings up some good points in his instruction - & his instruction is fairly good & well-rounded, but incomplete (he only shows the 3 main stikes of 7 strikes in each system & omits the kicks which he teaches separately in a kicking lesson; BTW: YSB's Monkey Fighting System is primarily a kicking system, but last I checked He didn't yet have that system available in on-line lesson format).
I gleaned what I could that caught my attention, & I took notes. Then I practiced some things from YSB & added it to what I was already comfortable with from SSB (& modified some of my old practice methods with YSB methods I liked better - & did some same old type practice with some new insight, making for better practice*).
* = At the time I was learning SSB I was mostly practicing forms & unlike most who study I wasn't already a skilled fighter, so I didn't understand much of the moves. YSB showed me what many of those movements could be used for. Before finding YSB I was only able to figure out a few excellent uses for the SSB moves.
@@michaeltaylor8501 that is awesome to hear. I actually spoke with Tim 1x years ago and he seemed like an awesome person. But, I am too far away. I wish i could find a Sun bagua teacher .......
Wow, he does so much in such short period of time. Thanks for the post, it was very interesting.
Very nice. This is how I was taught.
FINALLY! Thanks for uploading this =D! I can finally study more in depth of Sun style now ='D!
Tout est permis ,si on a la posture.merci
Can you please tell me what this gentleman's name is , a little about him, if he is still with us on this earth, I love his Bagua so simple not fast, but that could be because of his age, beautiful form.
How is this? This is a superb example of Sun bagua! Thank you for putting this up.
Very nice! Another interesting variation of Sun Lutang's Bagua Quan. Especially how he did the 5th palm which is the snake (in this case snake palm was done as the 6th palm) where it was followed up with a kick.
Yes. Lots of variations. And to my opinion Deng Fuming's is the worst.
@@Aklukva lols well still good I guess. Is just that it seems he went too excessive with inserting those thrusting palms.
@@henrylazaga Anytime you can make it work its all good. I bet twenty bucks the old gentleman can work it.
这位老师傅练的好像孙振川前辈那支传下来的。
I would love to see the applications for this form.
感謝分享!
TheHeatwole, the same thing. Since 1990 study Sun's form. Photos from His book and videos are far away from real understanding of His art. I suppose that Qing long suo wei mostly is not performed by perfomers. Thing is in rotation of the wrist. As scooping.
Hmm... who is this master?
勁整，流，自然，有功夫
At 1:12, awful. Like that would work. Hand needs to be extended away from the head. This is just the public simplified version of Sun's material.
I completely agree. All perform forms according to the pictures in the book. There are no direct explanations. It remains to be regretted that Sun Lutang's daughter did not leave educational videos and books on Sun Bagua.
@Aklukva the Indoor Style exists. Pictures are small guiding point. Sun stated "continuous movement" which is not seen here.
Xing but little yi.
自然 清楚，谢谢。
Sorry. I don't know his name.
TheHeatwole, I didn't have teachers. I'm in Russia.
Incorrect
ハ架掌