ALTEC 19 speakers: Massive vintage sound!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2025
- High quality efficient speaker come at a high price today...can a vintage solution be up to modern standards?
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#altec #altec19 #speakers
I heard these speakers 40 years ago and it marked a moment in. time, the salesperson used Elton John's Blue Moves album and started with the cut Sorry Seems to be the Hardest Word as I said this marked a place in time, I can still remember the time vividly and that wonderful moment when I realized that great components in a stereo system can serve to give a transcendent experience of music and that moment become a point of disembarkation from the past journey of sound to a new one of music moving the soul in me. Thanks Altec 19's
In 1974, a friend had a pair of Altec "VOT" speakers in his basement, where we partied often. They were Remarkable & Big. Because of them, I have always loved horn speaker systems and I've always Loved BIG! People today just don't get it. IMHO, BIG is Always Better.
Thank You. Most Enjoyable. Best regards.
The Voice of the Theater speakers by ALTEC are among the secrets of true audiophiles. The full visceral realistic quality they are able to create is just unmatched today, which are surely more neutral and analytical but less engaging at all levels.
I used to sell these in a high end retail store back in the day.....When ever I got a well heeled rocker in the store I would usually assemble a Citation 12 preamp, a Citation 18 power amp and set up a pair of these Altec's up in a seperate room....I almost sold this combo to each one I took the time and effort to show and demo....AND YES!, it was loud and even the one's that didn't buy ALWAYS had a smile on their FACE!!! The one's that didn't buy just didn't have the room to do them justice. Get yours into a much larger room and let them SING!
Citation 12 is a power amplifier.
Cool!!
Hey dear Guido congratulations for your new addition in your music room .i'm a fun of vintage stuff in hi-fi domain they look astonising .
Happy listenings 🙂
In the early 1970s, I lived in an old, once swanky apartment building in Baltimore. The top floor had an apartment equipped with a ballroom, where the occupants (Hopkins students) had installed a pair of Altec VOT speakers. Needless to say, they threw parties with the speakers blasting out the rock music of the day.
How cool!! 😎
I am glad that I found your channel! Someone had posted this video on the Klipsch forum where I've been on for 18 years. I'm glad you are someone who has a very similar listening experience to mine.
To make a long story short, I share your impressions of DSP. I've had a Klipsch Underground Jubilee (full horn) designed for DSP use since 2008, especially the K402 tractrix/conical horn. It is exactly the problematic effect of very subtle artifacts that you describe about these Golden Ear speakers, and with the Jubilee it also affects the high frequencies. So I currently have them passive and therefore unfortunately do without time delay correction and am stuck with one driver, all things that are not a problem with DSP, but still...it's analog now:)
A very important point you mention is the fact of how to acoustically marry a horn with a conventional bass reflex cabinet. I think it works best with large enclosures. And yet I can hear the transition very clearly. I don't have an Altec 19 but a Tannoy Canterbury 15 Alnico from 1992 (now with new surrounds).
In terms of treble/mid horn with bass reflex, the Altec and the Tannoy are similar, although otherwise quite different.
You have described the challenge of this combination of horn and bass reflex very well!
My third larger speaker is a 1977 LaScala. Just as you say. On the one hand a bit too small for a full bass but on the other hand what you hear is shockingly good and absolutely coherent. But with subs they don't sound as naturally fresh and fast (I don't like subs).
I'm not one to buy new stuff all the time, I've had my speakers for a long time, but I occasionally change which speaker I want to listen to from my collection. I think what I'm missing are good corners. I have the suspicion that if I had good corners I would sell all the big speakers. Because I was 14 when I first heard a Klipschorn in the 1970s. I think that's the sound I've been looking for all these years :)
And in between I listen to my LS3/5a and think that's all I need for the desert island.
A word about the xovers. You are absolutely right to leave everything as original as possible. Some people make the biggest mistake when they replace the capacitors in an Altec 19 or Klipsch LaScala with "super duper high end" polypropylene/Teflon types. I saw in your video that Altec uses polyester types. And it's the same with old Klipsch! Modern caps brutally destroy the homogeneous sound image if the ESR is "too good", because this changes the overall imledance of the network and even bass can suffer. I went through a long odyssey until I finally was aware about the above said and now use original Polyester cap types (which are cheap to buy today) and correct autoformers for my LaScala.
Thanks for your great channel and best regards from Cologne.
Thank you so much for this nice and interesting comment as well as sharing your experience with us, it’s important. Congrats Dr your journey and I must admit that I desperately want to try a pair of Klipshorns but as you said you need good corners and room (even for the new types).
Congrats Guido! Happy for you, enjoy
Bellissimi! Can't go wrong with the vintage speaker recipe... big, efficient... real!
Big cabinets with high internal volume just hits different.
And these guys are massive!
And you're on point with the elevation of bass driver relative to floor.
The closer you bring it, the more room gain - which is an acoustic phenomena that increases amplitude below 350 hz.
They tune the bass response this way.
Congratulations on the speakers 👍 They seem effortless in their music reproduction, thanks in part to the efficiency . I got a pair about a year and half ago. They needed a lot of TLC to bring the finish back , i stripped , smoothed to rid them of water rings and stains , oiled with Watco Tung Oil , and top coated with Minwax paste wax , this made the grain really pop . Then i rotated the woofers 180° , used some black grill material to cover the port from the inside , completely reqired the crossover with 12 gauge high quality wire, and replaced the caps with Clarity brand . The cap change really made them sing , i was somewhat disappointed with the sound until then, as i have Klipschorns and La Scalas too , i wanted to have that big horn sound for my smaller apartment living room , and i was going to trade them for a pair of Cornwalls until i made the cap changes . Anyway i love them now and will never sell , they are forever speakers like my Klipsch heritage pairs .
I run them with a Rotel RDD-1580 dac , Parasound 2100 preamp , and Adcom GFA-555SE. Really really good combo , the Adcom is dead quiet ive used it previously on my La Scalas for live sound before getting a Crown BL 2/600 for the purpose.
Thanks for sharing, yes, in the future I will certainly upgrade the crossover
Finally some REAL speakers 👌
What many don't know about the Model 19 is how evolved and refined the speaker is compared to it's ancestors like the A7 VOTT. There is considerable complexity and development in the Model 19's crossover that far surpasses the crude crossovers of Altec's earlier speakers. Also the invention of the "tangerine phase plug" massively improves the smoothness, bandwidth and dispersion of the mid/treble horn. The end result is a beautifully voiced speaker with considerable improvements in accuracy and low coloration compared to any other Altec offering. To accomplish this some efficiency was sacrificed and the crossover is quite complex but it's still very efficient and in my opinion it's the best sound Altec has ever offered.
Quite correct. I wonder how well the tangerine phase plugs hold up over time. Being made of plastic, they will slowly lose their plasticizers over time, causing them to be susceptible to shrinkage and cracking. As for the crossover, get rid of them and get a dbx digital crossover and two stereo amps. Using a calibration microphone, they could then be time aligned and 1/3 octave equalized.
Later examples even had the Mantaray horn.
I am vintage. i have only vintage. I love me some hornish vintage. It is my favorite type-ology. 😉 i am with you all the way. I would like to hear them on my Dynaco ST-70.
Before making any changes to wiring you need to try Belden 9497. They are cheap and you can try them as speaker wires. If you like their sound you can change the internal wiring as well. This is the wire Shindo is using for his internal wiring of his super expensive speakers that use the same Altec drivers as well.
They are the black and orange wires that can be seen hanging at the back of the horn in the photo of the Altec A7 you showed
also recommend western electric or duelund cables. using them with my altec carmels.
Or just use cat5 cable
Not my road…they are tinned copper of who knows which quality with PVC insulation. Not very good. Next video I will reveal my choice.
I cant recommend this enough! I rewired my Klipsch Belles with Belden 9497 with great results. I also use it for speaker cables.
I highly recommend soldering the speaker to amp cables directly to the crossover too. I have a pair of 55 year old large Sansui's running Alinco speakers and this mod changed the sound so much. Way more in the room and punchy. I like the idea of upgrading the inner cables too. I actually picked up a second pair of the speakers with Alinco speakers and I'm going to get some new cabinets that are made and add the drivers and crossovers to them. Damn I love this hobby! Those speakers are amazing. I can only imagine how good they sound. Have you considered replacing the capacitors etc?
Cool! Thanks for suggesting that.
Yes, I want to change them in the future.
Very cool to see you joining the Altec gang. 🙂 I would love the 19 but decided to go with the more reasonably sized Valencia for my home (powered by an Accuphase E-202 or Scott 340b), although it was a pain to move them by myself. There is a gentleman on YT called “The Empirical Audiophile” who goes in length into what he did with his Valencia speakers if you are curious. He added external ribbon super twitters to his setup. I was curious to know if you ever considered those previously.
I almost got the Valencia but then I found a good pair of 19s. I had supertweeters on my ATC speakers and worked quite well. I may be testing this again in the future since I am after some new crossovers with that option
Wow Guido! Spectacular speakers!!!
I got my original A19s back in April this year here in Singapore from a collector who had them for 30y+(his wife wanted them gone....) ; absolutely amazing sound, driving them with an Accuphase M100 Monoblock (a bit overkill) which gives that beautiful warm Accuphase sound with the Accuphase C250 preamp.
They definitely start sounding outstanding with at least 60cm off the back wall.
When I play electronic music, I use the amp high pass filter at 50Hz and switch on 2 x SVS subwoofers and bleed them in at 70Hz. This gives you an incredible club like room filling clear and hugging sound!
The foam inserts from Ebay are an essential!
Regular wood oil TLC is key! ❤
Nice!
@@anadialogupdate; one of the crossovers went and will have them both recapped and rewired them locally. Convinced 2 more friends to buy a set in the meantime! 😂
Yeah man, augment the environment that was, in terms of what it’s connected to. I want these one day. Good video.
🤗👍😎 THANKS GUIDO,FOR SHARING THIS WITH US, ALTEC LANSING TOWERS WERE MY FIRST INTRO INTO HI-END 🤗💚💚💚
Cool!
@@anadialog THEY WERE 511 4 way acoustic suspension speaker system,🤗 I LOVED ❤️ THEM,🥹but the surrounds fell apart and I had no money to repair them, SO I GAVE THEM TO MY FRIEND,HE EVENTUALLY GOT THEM REPAIRED,SO A HAPPY ENDING TO THE STORY…I STILL HAVE SOME LITERATURE 🤗💚💚💚
Have had 19's for about a decade. They benefit enormously from being set up properly and in medium to large room with favorable acoustics. My experience is that the two drivers don't become a singular cohesive source of sound until you get about 12' away from them and gets better even further than that (I sit nearly 14' away). Also, Ive found the best image resolution and sound stage dimensionality is achieved with extreme toe in (so the axis if the drivers crosses about 3-4' in front of listening spot.
Thanks for the tips!
In the 70s I heard a pair of Voice of the theater, with a pair of Bose 901s stacked on top, and equalizer, and two Mono Block Macintosh amps in a studio settings. The combo smoothed out and filled in the shortcomings of each alone.
Awesome speakers! I am still looking for a pair to add to my collection.
Hi!
I had a nice pair of Nineteens in the 90s, but felt a lack of bass.
Then I found that it was because of the dimensions of my room and the location of the speakers.
If your room is small, try to find the best location and use lots of sound absorbers in the walls and ceiling, to avoid stationary waves cancel bass frequencies.
I heard you saying that your speakers don't reproduce deep bass notes, but that's false. They do. Just locate them well and prepare the room the best you can and you'll get lots of fun!
Greetings!
Thank you for the review. I had the opportunity to listen to a pair of Model 19's in the early 1980s that had the woofers re-coned due to a fault with the amp. They sounded great! A dear friend of mine from the same period was a recording engineer from LA that had a pair of Altec 604s from Sunset Labs and after multiple listening sessions, I was convinced that the Altec vs. JBL wars were over; The Altec's were listenable over a great period of time and the JBL's, as great as they were, are hot on the highs and lows and contribute to a term called listener fatigue. In other word, you could listen to Altec 604s all day long without fatigue but the JBLs would wear you out. My friend was an audio pro and founder from Precision Lacquer and really knew his stuff. I had the fortune to buy a pair of 604-8H from Apex Music in San Diego and still have them to this day. They are the perfect loudspeaker. Moreover, I would love to obtain a pair of 19s as they rock. The other factor in listening is the fact that tube amps deliver a different transfer function compared with transistor amplifiers. The most noteworthy example is that tube amps deliver a sound quality that, for lack of a better term, is 'apparent loudness', unlike transistors. This means a substantially smaller power output from a tube amp can effectively make a large speaker sound good, despite the power limitations.
Absolutely love your program and have learned a great deal listening to your videos. Sometimes I get up at 3 in the morning to watch them before the rest of the family distracts me from this addictive hobby.
What a lovely comment! Thank you so much❤️
Wow congratulations! Can’t wait to enjoy watching this video.
Thanks Guido for the review. I was so sure that you choose vintage speakers. Iam for 25 years into vintage equipment after my hiend journey. A recommendation my friend. For speaker cables you must try an old western electric 16 or 12 awg. Or a duelund cables .
I totally love this. I like the 19, but ultimately, after upgrading the crossover in my Flamenco (16 ohm Valencia basically), I greatly prefer them for their coherency. So cool that you have found a happy place with Altecs! Similarly, I went from some expensive "HiFi" speakers to the Flamenco, and the emotional level of my listening has been taken to a place that is hard to describe. Congrats to you!
This what I love about the Altec classics. The 19, 14, Super Duplex Drivers, 15 Im not familiar with its sound but I am sure it is in the same vein of sounding great, its just finding your preference. Coax coherancy, Bass Punch/Tightness from 12”, Size and depth from 15” drivers. Just find what you like best and go with that. Im stuck between the Model 14, and the 604 Duplex drivers. I also would like to hear the 755 driver, but havent yet. Ive heard they are fantastic with Mid Range. Enjoy the Flamenco. As Im sure Anadialog will enjoy the 15’s.
Then you perfectly understand my impression!
@@anadialog Totally man.... Live music is imperfect. It is edgy, gritty, bold, dynamic. All those things are what I believe these speakers try to create for us at home brother! I can't see me ever going back to a traditional hifi speaker with cones and domes. Horns and sensitivity are where it's at!
Welcome to Altec Horn World!🎉 With 101db I want to see you try low watt SET amps... with my horn-onken Altecs (that I assume are a bit less efficient) I just moved from a 2.6w Decware to a 10w Shindo
Sweet!
Great to see and hear you back 😅
I love altecs and vintage klipsch. I think your system is great and if you enjoy what you are hearing then go with it. New is not always better.
I had dream that oneday u would get a vintage altec experience. The altec a7 horn loaded woofer cabinet is another magic that need to be experienced. Once I got a solid state amp to really grip n push the woofer, the blend in the high n low balanace
I think your description of them is spot on. They are perfectly imperfect. That is why I prefer vintage speakers to new speakers. Ultra precision isn't the best sound for most music.
The blend you talk about is probably due to the lack of space behind the cabinets. If they are set about 16 inches from the wall they really start to come into there own. They need some of that reflected resonance to really get the blend.
It's the same as not having Klipshorns in a corner.
I think you’re right…gotta convince wife! ;-)
The Altec 19 is an early modern horn speaker that used many techniques uncommon at the time but common now such as matching the dispersion of the woofer and horn at the crossover and using compensation EQ in the crossover to flatten and extend the treble response. I owned 19s for several years and consider it one of the finest all in one box turnkey speakers ever.
Wow - these look great!
I like old high efficiency loudspeakers as the work well with lower powered class A and tube amplifiers.
There are interesting videos on TH-cam where the great Art Dudley (editor of Listener Magazine)describes his Altec Flamenco and Valencia loudspeakers.
Indeed, great fan of Art here!
Hi and thanks for your video! I'm an Altec fan since 2003 and I was trying different kind of Altec's speakers and horns. Concerning 811 horns thay are not the best, they ringing. To avoid this, you have to made simple modification. Use self adhesive antivibration bitum-resine mats for car 3-4mm thin on outsidee wall of the horns!
Also the drivers are not go far high (up to 13-14 kHz)an you lose some air. You can try to add a supertwitter with its own 2 pole crossover.
As far as my today's system, I ended it up with Altec A5 DIY cabinets with Atec 805B multicell horns and Altec 288-16K drivers with Hiraga DIY crodssovers. The amps are DIY SE 300B monoblocs. This is my end point.
Cool! Thanks for sharing that. I actually think that in the 19’s the sound is superlative there is no ringing from what I hear but I do want to try sooner or later a pair of super tweeter since I got some good crossovers that features that possibly.
nice video and vintage speaker...I also like vintge speakers...own a pair of original Spendor S100 and Tannoy Berkeley's
I heard these in a small club/bar,next to the dance floor playing ,Last Child by Aerosmith,it blew me away I was awestruck,you gotta play that track on the 19s
Had a pair of Altec Santiago's back in the day with a phase linear 400. Moved to a small house and foolishly sold them and bought some KEF 105.2's. Saw the error of my ways and traded them on a pair of Altec 19's that I still treasure. Next step is to ship them off to Great Plains audio for a well deserved refurbishment after 45 years of faithful service.
Just discovered your channel & am super impressed with this video. Great, thorough, thoughtful review. Loved it. Haven’t made the move yet but also have my eyes on “vintage style” horn speakers. Two questions: 1) You mentioned a vid you did about your search for high sensitivity speakers but I couldn’t find it. 2) Have you heard Volti Audio horn speakers? Volti Rivals might be comparable to your Altec 19s. I’d be EXTREMELY interested in what you think of them, especially in comparison to your Altecs!! I think Volti is cautious in giving speakers to TH-cam reviewers (unserious channels seem to be typical). And Volti is small and located in the US. But maybe……
Welcome aboard! I never did that video. Maybe one day…it’s difficult and a very broad topic. On paper Volti was one of my top choices. Extremely expensive, a little too much for what it is, and very similar design to Klipsch heritage models.
@@anadialog Thanks for your response! Am a bit surprised you say Voltis are expensive. I know of many other horn speakers which are more expensive and seem like a lower value. Indeed, similar to Klipsch, but I hear better sounding and much higher quality construction. Keep up the good work.
My main speakers are my originally purchased JBL L110s. They are still most amazing. I bought them in the 70s, of course, then I foolishly sold them to a friend in the late 80s. Fortunately, he gave them back to me several years ago, & I've been blessed with their great JBL monitor sound.
James Bullough Lansing founded both Altec Lansing and JBL.
@@robertyoung1777 Yep....The L in JBL...
While on the topic of classic JBL home audio speakers, also check out the L166's. They were not big sellers back in the day due to they not having the "west coast" sound and are not common on the used market today but their smooth balanced sound has stood the test of time better to mr ears compared to the L100's, 4310 and 4311's.
Nice!!
Great choice … I have the model 14 .
I was close to getting one of these on eBay. Need to hear them first to see if I want them or not.
Anico speaks cust mire and a lot uf guitars pickups SO SOUND REPRODUCTION IS THE BEST for my ears
I, too, prefer the AlNiCo magnets as do many electric guitarists. The pickups in many current and vintage electric guitar pickups used these magnets. I absolutely love the unique 'horn' sound of the Model 19's as well!
Sweet! I always have a vintage system in at least one room.
Very nice. Maybe you would like tannoy dual concentric speakers. Maybe some Ardens .Horn loaded mid-treble and a big paper cone base. With excellent synergy between the two.
Next time the itch comes back obviously
I can attest tooth quality and capabilities of the Tannoy dual concentric speaker drivers (own a pair or Ardens myself). These are among the few full range high quality speakers which can be adequately driven to room filling volume by EL84 and 6V6 based tube amps as well as modest powered solid state amps (such as the NAD 3020). while the topic of co-axial speaker drivers, also check out the Altec 604 series of speaker drivers.
😬
Yes i second that. Can i also recommend the GRF Memory in addition to Ardens. All are superb vintage Tannoys.
For 30 yrs I had my Altec Model 19 powered by a Sansui AU 20000 that was the ultimate paring. The are the only speakers that I sold for twice the amount I paid for them. You know Rod Stuart did a sale poster with him having his leg on it you know he love soccer. Onother point is that Carnegy Hall had only two for their sound system. You have to lisen to "Money For Nothing" to experiance their total presence. I am with you they are the best speakes ever made for public.
Cool! Gonna have to try that Sansui sooner or later! Thanks for the tip!
I’ve been thinking about getting some 19s. My Klipsch LaScalas have been in the rotation most of the time.
Saludos, que excelentes sus videos, muy apreciados y valorados sus comentarios, gracias por compartirlos, Amo mis Altec 19, la excelencia de la eficiencia y sensibilidad sin carreta, verdadera Alta Fidelidad, sigue adelante, abrazos desde Bogotá, Colombia
love your work man!
Confratulations!!! I have 820A,love it!!!
Guido you nailed again. The dedication to the community is amazing. Thanks for the video. Bud the way are you all ready listen planar ribbon tweeters?
Thanks Gerardo! Yes, my Tritons had those…very nice sound…quite narrow but good!
I sold them in 1978 love them
I bought some clips Harrison IV’s a couple of years ago with a tube amp ( wilsenton r8) and I’m in for glass and efficiency.
Horn speakers and tube amps are the magic combination. I'm not sure how far away you're seated from these speakers, but I believe you're supposed to sit a minimum 10 to 15 feet away, to allow these big drivers to blend together as one. That was my experience with my friends Altec VOTT system and Klipsch LaScala speakers.
Indeed!
the screw missing in the top of the bass driver would set my OCD off. ps you should have tested the caps when the cross over was out !
They were made that way. There are more holes for fasteners/screws in the speaker basket than Altec used in the cabinet. Where there isn't a screw, then there is wood behind it (unless it has been modified), not empty holes where screws should be.
@@James-hb6ee i dont doubt your correct one bit. it would still set me off :)
It’s not missing. That is how it is built. One yes, one no.
@@anadialog i'm gonna post you a box of 30mm screws :)
I have a set of A7s VOTs, have not had the chance to hook them up in years (due to space constraints), but the horn loading on the woofer matches up with the horn better than on the 19s, but the low extension of the A7s is definitely not as deep as the 19s. I truly miss the sound stage and "size of sound" on the A7s. One of these days when I get more space I will restore them to their former glory and get them hooked up to a nice tube amp. I am excited to see how they will sound with my new horn loaded sub.
Nice! A good crossover may do the trick...and I am cooking something in that direction for a future video...
I buil my own version of the 19's.
The center of the 15 inch 416 driver is 3 for off the floor.
The 811 horn is higher up in the cabinet in a separate section of the cabinet.
It is fastened solid and the horn is wrapped in high density foam.
They are excellent speakers.
The magnates degrade on Alice's from too much high volume playing, so I hear.
How cool!
Everybody who loves to listen to music, sooner or later enters a world of 100dB+ with compressed drivers. And yes: HORNS!
I have been using Altec Model 17 604-8g Studio Monitors with McIntosh MC40 mono amps. I share your Altec/McIntosh enjoyment.
Try raising the speakers an inch or so off the floor for (maybe) better crossover between the drivers. Or/and maybe slight tow-in tweaks. Or maybe slope the speakers back a fraction by putting small spacers on the bottom front only. Or/and try speaker distance apart, even if it's only by cms, will make a difference, or/and from the wall. Tiny tweaks like that can make speakers sound a lot different. 🎉
Indeed but not raising because the engineers designed these to hit a surface below to charge the mid-low frequencies, the more you elevate the speakers the more you loose that effect.
The original grills were bad. The sides were solid and caused a huge edge diffraction killing the detail. Also check for leaks in the cabinet. The neck between the top and the bottom often did not seal well (especially 50 years later) and this also kills detail. Same with the horns sealing to the baffle, I use 1/16" thick cork. 811 horns can be out of tune and resonate at too high of a frequency causing a hot spot. I cut the welds and cryo / heat treated. Totally fixed it without any damping. Every attempt at damping (beyond bolting to the baffle) squashed the good parts as well and the hot spot still stood out. Cautionary note. If you heat treat without cutting the welds you may end up with a ruffles potato chip. (sounded great but looked terrible)
Thanks for these suggestions!
On the empirical audiophile I talk about Valencias and how I modified them. You may want to watch it cause you can do the same modifications to the Altec 19.
There's a colleague of Steve Guttenberg "The Audiophiliac" reviewer that was so taken by those Altec Woofers that he has a hoard of NOS drivers for future builds.
Reggae. Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Cool!!
Love the Model Nineteen, had a set in the late 80's! I'm collecting parts to build a pair of replicas but unfortunately Great Plains Audio no longer offers parts or repairs so I may be stuck with aftermarket cone rebuild kits. Strangely, Bill Hanuschak recently quoted prices for reconing knowing I planned to buy a bunch of damaged woofers on eBay and then five days later when I informed him I had acquired the woofers, he tells me, "I'm retired, I don't do that anymore". Say's he doesn't have cone rebuild kits anymore.
None of the aftermarket cones use the correct dust cap, there is an eBay source for dust caps that are close, they just have the wrong screen material. The seller says he can offer them without the screen so I'm searching for the correct material. Of course if they use the wrong dust caps, who knows what else is wrong with the aftermarket kits. Cone mass, suspension stiffness...
I haven't been able to find out where Great Plains was getting their original Altec cone rebuild kits, if anyone here knows, please let me know. Also if anyone knows where to get magnets recharged, let me know. You can determine whether you need the magnet recharged based on the Thiele/Small parameters.
So far I've collected four 421 woofers that I planned to recone to be 416C, also three 416Z, two of which should not require new cones. I have acquired the 811B horns along with 902 compression drivers. I'll probably use the 416Z in the 19's.
I found one crossover and I'm using it as a reference hoping to have Front Panel Express replicate the face plates. I'll build the crossovers using better parts than the originals. I might fine tune the crossover a touch, I use LspCAD for passive crossover design, it's pretty easy to optimize a crossover with that software.
By brother had full Model Nineteen blueprints from the 80's but they are badly faded so I'm going to try to recreate the drawings. Not sure when I will get this finished but if and when I get it done, I'll make sure they get posted somewhere. It's not easy, the drawings I have are unfortunately pretty far gone and I can't find much on the web.
I want to build these replicas as close to original as possible including cosmetically. I have a DIY open baffle system I use for my 2-way music system, the Model Nineteens will be more for the nostalgic value than a system to listen to on a regular basis. I already have a set of A7 replicas I built close to 20 years ago. They're at the top of the stairs going up to the home theater, I need to find a small low power tube amp to put with them.
Thanks for posting this video, it's great!
Wow, congrats for the effort you are putting into this! Hope you succeed!
I have a pair of Model 19's, 1 pair VoTTs (original green drivers/horns), 1 pair Altec A7 'Magnificent' (orginal green drivers/horns) & 1 pair JBL 4333s. It helps living on the US West Coast 🙂
Cool!! Which one is more engaging for you?
@@anadialog I think the Model 19's are the more engaging of the 3 pair of Altecs I own. I do also like the 4333 a lot too, but it's apples to oranges. I'm looking into the crossovers as a result of your video about upgrades.
Very exiting with good-ol sound. But one big thing you should avoid is to place the amps on top of the speakers. Even the electrical components should be isolated from vibrations.
Indeed! As soon as I have some extra spiace I definitely going to do that!
I have had mine for 30 or so years. I have 2 track r to r of theatre pipe organs oh my! Walls move what more need to be said.
i still have my Tannoy Cheviot Mk2 speakers that i bought new in 1978 sadly they need reconing but £600 to get them done, so i bought a pair of Q acoustics 3050's for £300 but one day i will get them done
Reconing or just thre surround? What drivers do they have the red or the gold I think the reds are better
@@hoobsgroove they have the 12" Gold Drivers and the paper on the cones have started spliting so a full Recone will be needed
@@storm-sf5rj where is the split it could be repaired, I would go for a repair not replacement. A replacement is basically a new driver you have to replace the vocal coil spider as well, it's possible to save the vocal coil and spider but tricky! and needs to be tested matched with the other driver if only one. A patch could be put in place seamlessly
@@hoobsgroove thank you for your input much apreciated, the surounds on both speakers need replacing and i think only 1 has split just at the bottom from the suround but they might be worse now as i have not checked them for a few years as they are in the spare bedroom covered with a blanket and have loads of stuff infront of them
JBL Smith Style Horns work real well with the Altec
Almost bought a set of these. I was looking for Bozak Concert Grands at the same time and found the Bozaks first...
Would have been nice to have a smaller set of vintage speakers though... The Bozaks are kinda big...
there's a pair of the Altec Valencia speakers for sale near me for 6000 and he isn't going to budge...🎶
I would think they're worth it but already have some recently aquired vintage Tannoy Berkely's
Too high…Valencia half that!
Awsome vid yet again!just what i needed to forget about some other shit going on these days.
That is a big compliment! Thanks!
This is a speaker that, as a vintage collector & also what for the last few decades is called a "High-End" Audiophile, I would call the pinnacle of Horn Speakers suitable for non-professional, i.e., "home" use.
I say this because, as someone who recommended these highly to a friend, & I get to hear them at least once a week when I visit him, the Altec Model 19 has the best combination of tonal neutrality, extended bandwidth, & highest sensitivity. Speaking of the latter, quoted specs & published measurements are all over the place, with 101db/w/m that you quoted being the most optimistic & therefore, a load of 🐂💩. The fact that you can change the rated efficiency by at least a couple of db just by monkeying around with the level controls (which REAL High-Fidelity speakers don't have🤨) suggests to me that the 101db figure also includes you having the level controls of the crossover CRANKED!🙄
Which is NOT how you want to listen to them. Unless, like too many horn speaker afficionados that I've met, you have 💩 in your ears & don't understand the difference between "natural" & "f***ing loud!"🤪🙄🤦
Still, this is a very efficient loudspeaker. Easily over 95db/2.83V/m in the real world, but not that much more.
As I said earlier, the prime virtue of this speaker is that you get all the usual horn speaker virtues of outstanding macro & especially microdynamic contrasts(what the late Art Dimwit of Stereophoole ragazine called "Touch"), as well as a sense of PRESENCE because the information in the music pours out so unimpeded from GOOD efficient speakers; alongside a surprisingly good bass extension (due to NOT horn-loading the bass🤧😏) & SUPERB broadband tonal neutrality.
EVERY other horn-loaded loudspeaker that I've heard, be it Electro-Voice, or custom Junk But Loud (because IMHO, that's all JBL is🤮), or Klipsch (The best way to describe the sound of a K-Horn is: KRUDE!🤪💩🤦), & even anything else Altec ever made (I find the A-7 & VOTT to be singularly ATROCIOUS SOUNDING ABOMINATIONS!🙉🙉🙉), are ALL ridiculously coloured & generally completely f***ed up sounding.
Even the Zu Audio Druid is little more than the best of a bad lot; & anything by Zu called "Dirty Weekend" just means that the company is capable of some refreshing truth in their advertising.😏
I can't take 2 minutes of the sound of all the horn-loaded GARBAGE 🗑️ 🗑️ 🗑️ I've heard over the last 5 decades of my life, & I want no part of it, EVER!
But for the Altec 19's, I'd make an exception. I just don't have the room to do them justice; I'll stick to Cerwin-Vega instead (but my daily drivers are vintage QUAD, B&W, KEF, Wharfedale & Celestion speakers. 🇬🇧Rule Britannia!🇬🇧)
Still, like all other PASSIVE horn speaker systems I've heard, a quoted 30c/s to 20kc/s frequency response for these speakers is only true, as it is with ANY & EVERY loudspeaker, if you mention the tolerance of that response in decibels from a certain reference frequency (usually 1kc/s). In the case of the 19's, it's about+5,-20db 30-20k!🤣🤣🤣🙄
Still, these are the most neutral horn-loaded high-efficiency speakers that I've heard in my 45 VERY active years as an Audiophile...& also in the industry.
So for you to mention that the hand-off between the 2 drivers is noticeable, & that you haven't touched a 50 yr. old crossover with the factory-original 💩-quality non-polarised electrolytics still in it, tells me that some of these capacitors are indeed failing.
Because you should NOT notice the drivers having "integration" issues!
Yes, there's 2 VERY different transducers being used in this speaker. A 1½-2" aluminium tweeter (thankfully some of its intrinsic metallic nastiness 😱 being tamed by that "Tangerine" phase plug covering it!😶🌫️), into a high-Q die cast horn that "rings" audibly along to the music even at the lowest volumes; & then a humungous, & stiffly suspended 15" woofer made from heavy paper pulp, with an integral pulp "accordion"🪗 surround, coated with rubber cement.
Both drivers match really well because not only do they integrate particularly well/smoothly, but they both are a bit "dirty" sounding in a very similar manner, as their low-level distortion performance is hardly state-of-the-art...& not even for their time!
But you SHOULD be hearing a level of neutrality approaching the high stsndard set by say, an Advent/1 or even a Dynaco A-25. Two other vintage classics that I own because I love 'em so much; & unlike the Altec 19's, I can own them & get the best out of them because they'll work in the smaller rooms that are throughout my home!
Speaking of the listening space, not only do the Model 19's DEMAND a LARGE room to sound good, they're particularly sensitive to low ceilings. Anything less than 12', & I'm afraid that you're largely wasting your time with a pair of these!
And, if you want ANY "imaging", as in a nice 3D soundstage, your listening position needs to be a MINIMUM of 15'-20' or 5m-7m away from them!
At that distance, their lack of clearance from the ground becomes a non-issue when you're sitting down in a chair 💺.
If you feel that the tweeter is too low, you're sitting too close, & that's that!
And that's also the reason why my one friend sold it to another one of my friends (I was also the, unpaid, Broker in the deal...😵💫).
In a big enough room, placement away from the rear wall ALSO becomes nearly a non-issue. 3-6" SHOULD be adequate!
If not, then your standing waves & uneven response, even with the modest 35-45c/s HONEST bass extension limit🤨, is likely largely a function of the inadequate size of the room for the speaker to "breathe".
These are SPECIAL speakers, for a SPECIAL kind of music lover. They sound best with simply-arranged acoustic music, especially folk & jazz & perhaps some baroque chamber music as well.
For anything else, like rock or large orchestral classical, they're just ridiculously bombastic & completely OTT overpowering.
And they do LOVE Valve amplifiers, & even an MC-30 is overkill for them unless you want to play Jungle & Techno through them at realistic rave volume levels!🤪😱😵😵💫👹😏
They're just the thing for Single-Ended EL84 & 2A3 amplifiers (3.5W/ch.) or an 8W/ch. 300B amp. I've heard them with both the 300B as well as the EL84 amp, the latter being preferred by the current owner whose preferred musical taste is for folk music & classic rock; he has a second system for that, with Avalon loudspeakers that are a good 12db or so less efficient bring run by a comparably powered (to your Mac MC-30's, amps I also used to own & had to sell due to financial stress a couple of decades back; subsequently replaced with a pair of McCurdy studio amps based on the IDENTICAL circuit, the only change being designed around the far superior sounding EL34, in place of the yucky 1614/6L6's...🤢🤮🤮🤮) valve amp by Triode Labs in Canada, 25W/ch. from push-pull 7591's...
As it is, even in a room with 15' ceilings (peaked roof) that's approximately 20' wide by 30' long, he has yet to clip that 3.5W/ch. S.E. EL84/6BQ5 Triode Lab amp, even when we're playing the system LOUD!😳🤗
Thanks for your detailed comment! Yes, I changed a few times crossovers with high-end ones (see my other videos) and things went into place. I have a big room, with high, wooden, bent ceiling so I have an optimal ambient. Finally, I have been using them with my Takayuki 2A3 and 300B WE amps with tango transformers and I am living a musical bliss…I would love even more sensitivity for my 45 amp but that’s ok. Can’t have everything! Finally I just demagnetize them (upcoming video) and the sonics are just overwhelming they are so good!
Alnico magnets have always been considered the magnet of choice for audio enthusiasts and they are very expensive.
I have used both the Altec 802 G compression driver (Alnico) and the subsequent 902 driver (ferrite) and could detect no sonic difference when crossed at 1200hz. The earlier 802 and 806 have better response than the 902 below 1200hz but not because of their Alnico magnets but because of the different phase plug. Likewise I could detect no sonic difference in Alnico and ferrite 1" JBL drivers that I would attribute to magnet material. I compared them using identical aluminum Radian diaphragms in each. And by the way, I consider ferrite magnet Radian compression drivers (made in California by the way) as good sounding as any.
I'm running mine with a single-ended 300 b 8 watt amplifier and that is plenty power for them and yes my foam disintegrated
Nice! Which amp and which 300B are you using?
Find some mattress foam 6" and put your speakers on that will help the booming issue your getting reduce it or eliminate it open up the sound. Not just an isolator but helps to dampen the bottom of the cabinet as well you should be surprised by the effect.
I wonder if you should tilt the tweeter horn separatist in it? Three or four inches at the back because they are design for large rooms probably 20 ft to the listener, You're not getting the proper synergy between the high frequencies and the woofer at say 7 ft away
Because they're so high SPL in the high frequencies it might be worth putting a strip of 5 mm open cell foam in the two front partitions or even a cut up 180 thread cotton sheet reduce its output. Pots are not good really, need to get rid of them, you can do what tanoy do use jumpers or change the carbon film pots for attenuators with surface mount carbon resistors won't degrade the sound. A capacitor change could be beneficial especially if they're electrolytics, change them for polyurethane film try Jensen z caps
I can’t believe you go for speakers with crossovers
If you like elevated listening levels, there's no substitute for size.
Spettacolari. In quanti metri quadri li fai suonare?
Circa 35/40mq
@@anadialog grazie, come li vedresti in 20 mq?
You don't need a subwoofer with those, do you? Beautiful speakers!
Some use them for that extra 10hz but I think you just smear the result and these big woofers do an excellent job
OK, so you realized you need more space behind them and some toe-in is preferable. Also, I would try sitting a longer distance away from the speakers, starting around 9 feet up to at least 12 feet if you have a large enough room. This gives the tweeter and woofer a better chance to blend. You don't want to sit too close to these large speakers. Enjoy.
nice! werner jagusch crossovers should improve this further...
I’ve see his crossovers for the Valencia…I was wondering if he made also something for the 19s
Consiglio dei pannelli fonoassorbenti dietro alle casse visto che non puoi allontanare dal muro, ottieni un risultato simile, eccellente un pannello di sughero al muro più un fonoassorbente sopra al sughero, ti prende 10 cm, se hai troppi bassi prova a sentire in terra le vibrazioni, io con le mie Fostex ho usato dei supporti in alta densità più alti sul fronte, mi ha ridotto il problema, molti mettono un tappeto di fronte… hai preso dei diffusori mitici! Goditeli!
Giusto, in effetti lo avevo fatto per le scm35 quando stavo in un piccolo appartamento!
I am planing to buy Altec 19. I listen mainly to electronic music. Are Altec 19 good for electronic music?
My large vintage speakers using the Alinco speakers sound AMAZING playing electronic music. So I would suggest these would too!
They can play anything since they are monitors but maybe for electronic music you need a little more bass…
Now I don't have the 19 but on the other hand the 604E a little different but still not, my mates have the Altec in different variants but the drivers and horns are still similar to what is in the Altec 19. But Altec is not for everyone because those who like detail in certain registers will not like Altec as they are very good at reproducing a homogeneous sound image. Then you should also consider that if you have a competent stereo, each mod is a shade difference, there will be no huge improvements as some claim. What I have discovered with mine and my friends' speakers is that they should stand hard against the floor, preferably nothing at all in between like SD feet or similar, they are devastating. The distance from the wall is a dear subject, but if you have them too far out, I feel that they lose authority and become boring, mine are about 15-20 cm from the wall, but you adapt to the room and how you listen. Cables of course as thin as possible Belden is very good all cables that are tinned are good but I use Supra's cheapest with very good results. Sharing filter yes it is very personal but we use both Jagusch and homemade for our preferences. If you build yourself, you should use the best components you can afford, you don't need to use the ones with magical properties, it's perfectly fine to use PIO and MOX resistors. For me it's tube amplifiers that apply even though I have a Le Monstre that I use sometimes even if the speakers have high sensitivity you should have an amplifier of at least 5W it seems that smaller has too little umpf from the start. An amplifier with reactive power, i.e. a power supply that is large with a lot of microfarads is preferable, I have noticed as the bass driver works better. Lastly regarding alnico and its weakness when I started using the Altec I was curious how much it matched what was being read so I found a magnet expert. She told me that temperature differences have no greater effect than to heat them up considerably and cool them down greatly, then you destroy the magnetism, the same applies to blows, then you have to take a hammer and hit the magnet as much as you can several times, but for home use it is the bulletproof ones.
You talk about the crossover like it is not important, or maybe that’s my take on what you are saying ? Then you talk about everything that is not perfect like hearing the point from the driver too the horn section, I really couldn’t live with a speaker like that, but that’s just me, I like vintage, have a pair of Graham Audio LS 5/9 that I really enjoy, the transition from bass/mid driver to the tweeter is seamless making all instruments sound real and natural, off course it lacs any real deep bass, but in my room they go down to the forties somewhere and if I need more I would get a sub.
Mr Hughes that designed the LS 5/9 and many more BBC speakers has often talked about how a good crossover design determines a good sounding speaker.
But I am glad you enjoy your speakers.
Interesting video by the way 👍🏻
Are you going to upgrade & replace the crossovers? You can always ship em off to G.R. research!
Indeed!
I have a pair of Troels Gravesen TL-1 loudspeakers. I wonder how these compare?
Hi, how big is your room? How far apart are they? Do they need a big room?
My room is medium/large, about 6 by 5 meters. The are about 2 m apart. I think they need at least a medium size room not very big. Remember these were monitors and those rooms were never huge.
Surprised you used speakers with integrated dsp! No today speakers especially with dsp can reach the natural feeling of vintage speakers! and the 8 ohms just way better! in the very past they used 16ohm drivers, even better sensitivity, but too much power needed! Anyway i prefer 1000% more vintage speaker even paired to make 12-16 ohm on 2 ch solid state today power amp (vintage are good in 8ohm), more sensitivities, even if you end with 2*40w from a 2*300W solid state! Power don't means anything in fact, it' more the transient, sensitivity, etc ...It's well known on tube amplifier, they deliver very low power , but very high sensitivity, very fast transient, and a 1w on tube is just like 10w on solid state! Using low impedance dsp speakers will like all the time with digital show better spec, but not necessary better sound enjoyment! Congratulation! I also traded my pro active monitoring speakers, to old vintage passives ones, and i just laugh at the new one each time i compare them to the passive system (however they have some advantage light, small, low power needed, optimized drivers, etc)! No way to go back once you''ve experienced vintage passive monitor speakers! It's sad, but vintage audio will always remain better, just because in those day, they don't reduced anything but in contrary oversized! True quality means sacrificing everything else for it! Today quality just don't exist anymore! There is always a dsp somewhere in today 'HIFI" to reduce the cost, add more possibilities whose often are not necessary etc...
I agree!
Forget the speakers, you have very pretty eyes❤❤
THE crossovers has a coils with a ferrite or iron core,also they using the traffos. This make distortions, The coils with air core is recommend with a dick wires about 2.5 mm diameter of wire. Also the capacitors is drying and loosing the speed capability of charge/discharging
I wish oneday u get a altec a7
I did take them into consideration but the babies were meant for theaters, meaning really big environments so I am not sure they would work properly in my place.
How about a big pair of Tannoys?
A7 the best I ever had.
The crossovers capacitors must be changed. As with lots of old electronics, those just give up with time. I built a pair of 19 and I measured the old capacitors, they leaked badly on voltage test. But I did try them beforehand and made comparison listening and the old caps made the 19 just lifeless.
I realize that and I am about venture to experiment my third high-quality crossover. Soon a full comparison video. Here is the one made by Pete Riggle: th-cam.com/video/jZecqU6kQK8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=l-uVikEIdl3OPFjH
A proposito del crossover puoi usare dei film plastico che performano meglio senza costi stupidamente inutili e conservare gli originali incollati da una parte del crossover per mantenere l’originalità del prodotto
The phase plugs were a cost savings in manufacturing and really aren’t any better or worse than the originals. It’s a fun marketing thing, although those are just a feature, not so much a real difference. And being plastic…age