The Bracing Despondency of BARRY N MALZBERG Science Fiction Gadfly
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- n the first of a new series entitled IMPOSITIONS, Steve, infected by the entropic running down of literary genre SF over the last few decades finds great affinity with the work of Barry N Malzberg and discusses the importance of Authorial Voice in creating fiction of quality...
#booktube #bookrecommendations #sf #sciencefiction #sciencefictionbooks #bookcollecting #literaryfiction #fantasy
Stephen- Another video from the heart. Thank you for your openness and passion for SF.
Thanks for that, kind of you to comment.
Aware that this is an unusual and at times contemplative video- if I were a smoker, it would have been a cigarette moment if you see what I mean- but that was the mood that day. Contemplating Barry's words in the book and my feelings about his and MMs writing in later years plus experience of ageing seemed the only things I could talk about that day.
I'll smoke my pipe (tobacco) on the back porch now and contemplate how alien the world has become.... with the Aliens running things behind puppet "leaders".... while aliens who are outcasts, neglected and forgotten by the Aliens, swarm across borders.... Few realizing it's the Alien's goal to make everyone pawns, puppets or alien outcasts
- a dystopian short story by glockensig
Such a perfect title for a look at Malzberg. Thanks for posting this fine tribute. Hoping you're well!
Great discussion, Stephen. So right for Malzberg. Contemplative and low-key, but all the better for that. I read Beyond Apollo and The Destruction of the Temple in the mid-70s, in my early teens. Anyone I met back then who had read Malzberg, it was like we were members of a secret club. (Which may explain his sales figures!) Plenty of food for thought here, as well as recommendations, as usual. May be time to read Beyond Apollo again now too. I still remember so many moments from it.
Yes, he's a special one. We Malzbergians are like an underground movement, but I'm determined to stick him back in the sunlight, even if some sensibilities are bruised by his ferocious intelligence.
I wonder if the muse of writing follows a bell curve for most writers. I know there are some that ignite early and fizzle out, or die early, but I think most do follow the bell curve with their best work in their mid-life.
I agree. Some are incandescent from the start, but I think most working writers learn their craft on the job. Few seem to sustain thier best work beyond their fifties and I think that the commercial reality, where most genre writers have to keep producing to make a living often ensures their oeuvres are uneven. Only a handful of writers have the luxury of lifelong selling mega-bestsellers that mean they don't have to write. And the ones that do, who could sit back until the produce meaningful work- like King and Rowling- just keep churning out massive, ill-considered works. Me, if I had that success, I'd just drop the odd short story once a year when I came up with something stunning!
A lovely contemplative video, Stephen. I'm sure you know you have an audience here for anything you write. I'm all too painfully aware how easy it is to talk about writing, and doing it, especially from a standing start, is quite a task.
Thanks Paul, appreciate that.
Malzberg is yet another giant whom I have not yet read. (Yes, it's true). But your mention of Spinrad's take on the 1990's SF print landscape where it is an afterthought to movies and their merchandising reminded me of a quote that came to me from I don't know where, back in the day, that went something like this: The many powerful voices of truly great talent that are shouting out their stories have been reduced to whisperers in the raging hurricane that is our mediocre, disinterested world. A bit off the mark I think but, you get the point. That aside, there is so much to like about this episode, OB, it's hard to pick a place to begin. So I'll just leave it here. Thanks for another Outlaw Bookseller gem! Cheers.
Salutations, Dean of Men! We have indeed been fighting a rearguard action since then....
Still catching up with your older but still recent entries... and am so heartened to find your take on Malzberg. I'm in your club here! In the 70s I was involved in American SF fandom, writing as well as reading, taken as "sercon" for the stuff I wrote. And I discovered Malzberg during the course of all that. Even had a few written exchanges with him inside and outside the zines I wrote for, since I reviewed some of his work (I recall especially "The Falling Astronauts"). He's still among the choicest of writers for me, even though in recent years I've focused on his splendid genre essays.
Great to hear from another Barry devotee- even among his generation of superb US literary genre SF writers, he remains peerless and unique....and yes, the essays..wow!
I read a fair amount of scifi, all of Gibson, my favorite scifi author, Daniel Suarez, another favorite, and some other things here and there. Recently, I found "Recursion" by Blake Crouch, and now I have a new favorite scifi novel. It's IMO perfect and so very highly recommended. I subsequently read "Upgrade" and "Dark Matter" by the same author. They're very intelligent and well-written, engaging and thought-provoking, but there can only be one best.
By the way, apropos of this discussion, on the basis of a recommendation I bought "The Gamesman" by Barry Malzberg in a Kindle version. It was the only one of his novels I could find on Kindle. I haven't read it yet, because I just started Asimov's "Foundation". You didn't mention it sadly. All the best.
I've read all of Barry's SF (we don't use 'Sci Fi' on this channel, by the way). I sell Blake Crouch at work and have done for years, but I'm not enthusiastic about his work to be honest. You'll find Malzberg quite different to everything else you cite, with the exception of the darker moments of Gibson.
Interesting video. I was about to comment on Michael Moorcock's novel "Breakfast in the Ruins" but then you mentioned it. A very intriguing novel. Read it at 15, in French.
Yes, it's one of his most daring New Wave experiments and no-one ever talks about it. I enjoyed it, but not for everybody!
Another heartfelt and interesting video Stephen. Unfortunately my first attempt at reading a Malzberg novel was The Sodom And Gomorrah Business which I didn't enjoy at all. I guess it's meant to be satirical and dystopian, but I have to admit I just found it unpleasant with not one character with any redeemable qualities. I didn't get what point he was trying to make with the book really, which is probably down to my own lack of insight. I still want to try another by him - I've got Overlay, On A Planet Alien, Beyond Apollo, The Destruction of the Temple, and The Men Inside - I'm hoping one or more of these will prove more to my taste.
Wishing you all the best in getting back into writing, and I'm looking forward to a new edition of 100 Must-Read Fantasy Novels, as I really found it's SF sibling insightful. Regards... Peter
Thanks for buying my book, Peter, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Just waiting for Bloomsbury to confirm the rights reversion now, no idea how long this will take- most things in publishing take forever- but once I have the rights, I'll post here and then crack on with updates- all the original entries will be retained, though some will be moved to an appendix and replaced in the '100 list' by other books.
Re Malzberg, I think it's worth remembering that there are no rules in fiction that say characters have to be sympathetic- I just think the mythology of reading has suggested that unless one focus character is sympathetic, then a reader cannot relate. Well, what I'd say in this case that is particularly germane to SF is that characters in dystopian situations are under great stress and/or shaped by harrowing surroundings/upbringings, so maybe looking at them in their fictional world context would help. Also, Malazberg is big on irony and black humour, worth considering those factors too. Mostly, he is angry at the world of SF at that point- so 'Beyond Apollo', where he is really critiqueing the US using the space programme to distract the public from Viet Nam and keep the Cold War going- works both as an attack on traditional and right wing elements in the SF readership and publishing as well as the bigger target. I admit he's not for everyone, but an adjustment of point of view is worth considering- best of luck if you read him again and do let me know how you get on.
An imposition echos long Lost passions in friendly arms. A pint, a laugh now all gone off.
I appreciate that- more like this to come....
A new video from you is always a joy. I was wondering if you read any of the SF magazines, such as F&SF, Asimov's, Clarkesworld, Analog, etc., and if you see any hope for serious SF in those forums. I'm looking forward very much to future videos in this series.
I'm not sure if you mean read in present tense or past tense, but the answer is a firm no to all of them instead of F&SF and then only in an historical sense. SF magazines -apart from UK issued ones- have never been really widely distributed in the UK and the more traditional bent of those you cite was never my thing- I used to buy 'Interzone' religiously in the 80s and early 90s (I also read 'Locus' cover to cover then) and kept up with contemporary anthologies that replaced magazines, such as 'New Worlds', 'Zenith', 'Other Edens' etc, but as I say, I stepped away from SF for some years in the 90s and generally didn't get overly involved with fandom, as my literary interests were always broad. As for if I see any hope for serious SF, the next video in this series will address a key historical/cultural point in why I think SF is now the way it is and onwards from there...
I found The Falling Astronauts by Malzberg recently in a Cape Cod shop. Also reading Ritual in the Dark based on one of your recent videos. Thank you friend!
Absolute pleasure, you must let me know how you get on with them.
“In The Hall of The Planets” and “Dwellers In The Deep” both deftly skewer SF fandom, just as does Barry’s niche masterpieces OVERLAY and UNDERLAY, against the backdrop of trackside paramutuel pools and thoroughbred horse racing.
Yes, read them all many years back. The former two are now in NESFA's collection of BNM's recursive SF. Stark House now publish the Horseplayer Trilogy, nesting the obscure 'A Bed of Money' inbetween the 'Lay' novels.'Underlay' was the first Malzberg I read decades ago, it was a deep end moment...
I have just finished reading Other Days, Other Eyes and I can already sense the reread in my future once the light has finished passing through
Oops, I put a Bob Shaw comment under a Barry N. Malzberg video..
Funnily enough, this ties in with what Bob Shaw once said about Barry Malzberg, that his writing represented everything wrong with SF writing in the early 70s. Both, of course, did excellent work. There is room for all.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal that is uncanny!
@@GypsyRoSesx SF history is full of these strange connections, one of the things that makes it eternally fascinating!
Nothing wrong with the video from the heart, as long as it's what you want to share.
It's good to hear your thoughts on this part of the industry.
Hoping the best for your health
Very kind of you as always, mate.
I discovered Malzberg by taking a chance on "Out From Ganymede", original copy. Needed more instantly! Also, "Beyond Apollo" is right now being made into a movie, I believe starring Bill Pullman as the single returning astronaut. I also think Bill did some of the pushing to get this into production.
Yes, will be interesting to see if that comes off. It would be great for Barry to get more attention before the end of the road....received his new collection of stories in the post today, issued by Stark House.
I'm planning on reading Chorale by Malzberg. I was intrigued by listening to you talk about it in an earlier video. And also that fantastic cover! Also when you do write the fiction book, I will definitely buy it. Me, and a lot of other people I'm sure.
It's all about finding the time. While I'm youtubing at this rate, it won't happen, but as I say, the plan is to do some work on this early next year. Watch this space for news, thanks for your faith and interest- and 'Chorale'...well, it's different, fascinating take on time travel and its implications, serious and strange book.
I enjoyed this.
Thanks!
I was an avid reader of SF when young. It lost me several decades ago. TH-cam has kind of re invigorated my interest of late. sadly a lot of my collection has disappeared over several house moves and 2 divorces. I tired to get digital e versions but its only the bigger titles that tend to come out which kind of defeats the purpose.
I picked up two Colin Wilson books at my local used bookstore. (I just so happen to live within walking distance of one of the largest used book stores in the Southeastern part of the US.)
The Glass Cage and The Mind Parasites.
Just finished The Glass Cage last night and started some of the latter this morning. The mind parasites seems way more ambitious so far, I’m really interested to see where it goes.
Your overview of the themes in his writing got me really excited to read him. Thanks, as always, for the awesome recommendations!
No problem. 'The Glass Cage' is one of his most obscure novels and relatively minor, but Colin's fiction was always interesting. 'The Mind Parasites' is better, but greater joys await you in 'The Philosopher's Stone', 'Ritual in the Dark' and 'The World of Violence' all of which have been reprinted in the US in the last few years by Valancourt.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal that’s great to hear about the current printings. I have an old copy of The Philosopher’s Stone on its way from eBay, but didn’t get Ritual in the Dark because of the higher price in the used market. Thanks for the reply!
I thoroughly enjoyed this video and the conversational approach - just brilliant. Cheers. (Off to track down some Malzberg)
Thanks as ever Barrie, great to hear from like always, expect more like this, I have a list of at least four more to film in coming weeks. Yep, get yourself some Malzberg- not for everyone, but a man who means it from the bottom of his soul. A serious, troubled artist who matters.
Lovely stuff - so interesting. And great to see some love for Hamsun, one of the writers who most fascinated me as a young man. Wish I still had that Picador...
Yeah, so do I. I have a very handsome hardcover though! Thanks for the kind comment, Michael.
6:48 I concur
We need the miserablists! LOL
I read, enjoyed and reviewed Beyond Apollo last year (having picked up a copy in Hay). I later read an amusingly irate review of it by Richard E. Geis in The Alien Critic. I was amused to learn that Malzberg and Geis had something in common - they had both written erotic novels, some published by the same company, Midwood Books!
Geis was well known for having a bash at other writers, which was part of his 'zines notorious popularity. Barry wrote lots of erotica, much of it available now from Stark House. 'BA' - classic Malzberg, key US New Wave, great novel.
😂😂 love it. Nice lighthearted content!
I picked up 'Herovit's World' on your recommendation- sounds like it might be up my street.
Knut Hamsun is my favorite non SF writer. I loved Pan, Victoria, Mysteries, & Hunger. Growth of the Soil is very good (Nobel prize & all), as are a number of his other books - but it's those four that really rattled my cage.
Enjoyed the video's intro - who's the cat?
If you like Hamsun, I'm sure you'll like the Malzberg. Readall of those Knuts and more- Nobel is for body of work, of course,it just coincided with 'Growth' being published. He was so great.
The cat is Smudge, who appears now and then, she's my owner, in a lot of my very early videos, often in thumbnails, but she does what she likes so rarely appears...
I would agree the Star Wars and Star Trek did massive damage to literary SF, but I believe that it did recover from the set-back. There has always been an large proportion of crowd-pleasing stuff out there, but good thought-provoking work has survived alongside it.I could name many excellent writers producing great stuff right up to around 2000, but most of them are now getting old or are dead. The real problem is that I can find hardly any young writers who have emerged in the last 10 or 15 years.
I have tried many of the award winners, but mostly their whole attitude is superficial and gimmicky. People like Adam Roberts, Dave Hutchinson, Nina Allan and Chris Beckett are still producing great stuff, but they are all not very young any more. I accept that I am old now, so young writers are not meant for me, but most of the writing is just so bad.
I don't know whether to blame writers aiming for a film or TV adaptation, or getting sucked into the fantasy black hole. I do wonder how much to blame the old Sad Puppies affair of a few years ago. The whole field now seems to be split into super-liberal all-inclusive rants and highly religious, militaristic gun porn. Neither of these appeals to me.
I have retreated into old Len Deighton books at the moment, but I do always return to some form of SF,
You're right there's always been the Lowest Common Denominator, but due to the ever-increasing spread of the mass media, it has become all-encompassing, I feel. Totally agree re the quality writers of today you name- and as I've said here myself, apart from Adam, they all had to wait until their fifties to make any mainstream commercial headway, which says everything about genre publishing and readers between 1990 and 2010 I feel.
Identity Politics is a HUGE problem for SF and I'll tackle that again. As is Fantasy's dominance of genre publishing, another topic on the list. But next I'll be looking at the cultural and historical context genre SF arose in and the inevitability of its creative decline due to the crisis that's increasingly faced all the arts for the last thirty years or so.
Nothing wrong with retreating to Deighton... :-)
I wouldn't say unfocused Steve. Wistful perhaps, the world is a sad place, life is a sad and joyous thing, but your insights are ever interesting, useful and dangerous for those of us hunting the real stuff. I have Guernica Nights, one of the books surprisingly in the minority on my SF shelf in that it was not bought based on your keen and eloquent treatises. Must say I wasn't in the right frame to read Guernica and gave up pretty quickly put in part by what I perceived as violent sexism. I want to try some other Malzberg first. All the best with health, writing, publishing and gifting us these videos for as long as you feel its worthwhile. ✊❤
Thanks for that, very kind. My aim is always to share ideas about how we can all learn more from writing.
Re Malzberg, remember that you're reading fiction and that perceived Sexism in a story may not be an indicator of the writer's psyche, but that of the narrator or focus character(s), who in a mature narrative don't have to be sympathetic- one of the assumptions often made of fiction. Barry has been called out for making public statements some have perceived this way, but I think that says as much about the maturity of those pointing fingers as it does about him. He's an uncomfortable read sometimes, but for all the right reasons.
Hi Stephen. Another great video.
Read a couple of Malzbergs years ago - 'Beyond Apollo' and 'The Men Inside' - and the second of these put me off any further exploration. Until now - read 'Herovit's World' recently and I have to say I liked it, so much so that I will definitely be investigating further.
On a totally unconnected point, I have noticed that you are increasingly bagging your books. Is this a good idea? I wonder if this close bagging can lead to condensation and foxing. Just a thought!
'Herovit's' is a superb book- for me the greatest Recursive SF novel ever and one day, I'm going to write a homage to it- been building up to it for years. You have to 'acquire the taste' with Barry, it's like when you first taste beer as a kid, you think man, that's gross, then it comes to you (well, with me, I loved him straight away, but I raised myself on Ballard). Once you accept his bleak and impassioned view of the world, he's very bracing and morally upright, I feel.
Re bagging- it's never, ever caused a problem with my books. The temperature/humidity conditions of the room books are in can interact with bagging, but I've had no issues.
What do you mean, not click bait? It baited me to click! Malzberg is one of the great, undiscovered writers of SF. Sure, he can be gloomy and pessimistic, but that's closer to real life for most of us. Like you, I think he went off the boil a bit as he grew older, but that seems to be the way for most novelists. I heard years ago that he was another of those unforgiving writers who expected his publishers to be fair and honest, a bit like KR, and that he was therefore seen as difficult.
James, if the rest of the SF readership were like you- and there are many here, watching me, thankfully- we'd be in clover. Thanks for the support. As you know, I love Barry's work and consider anyone championing him to be a person of impeccable taste. Onwards!
@rammcd2769
A good overview with many pertinent points, thanks, its great to see informed folk mention him..
I've read all of Malzbergs novels except some of the 'erotic' ones under pseudonoms Some are a bit too monotonus to reccomend unless you are a completeist, or really appriciate his 'voice'.
The Mike Barry Lone Wolf books are a blast of psychopathic fun, very similar to his more focused sci-fi novels. I even love his kung fu novel!
However, like Dick, Ballard and notable others in the field , much of his best work (& most accesable for new readers) is in the short stories- all his early collections are brilliant.
Final War and Other Fantasies (1969) [as by K. M. O'Donnell]
In the Pocket and Other S-F Stories (1971) [as by K. M. O'Donnell]
Out from Ganymede (1974)
The Many Worlds of Barry Malzberg (1975)
The Best of Barry N. Malzberg (1976)
Down Here in the Dream Quarter (1976)
Malzberg at Large (1979)
The Man Who Loved the Midnight Lady (1980)
The early work as KM'ODonell is a good introduction to his ideas as well, and the short story collection as novel UNIVERSE DAY is one of his most enjoyable.
His essays & critical work is also of a high standard- he wrote an excellent piece about JG BALLARD in SF&F (?) that also highlighted many of his own tropes & obsessions.
I would only reccomend his work for folk with a decent, broad sense of humor, like Ballard he is very amusing (often subtly & symbollicly) but can be mis interpreted to be existentially depressing, as that state & ennui are intrinic with both writers visions of the future.
There are too many great novels by him to list, tho I concur with all you mentioned (Beyond Appollo & Galaxies are must reads for anyone serious about the genre, & along with In the Enclosure are his book I've re-read the most- excepting the short stories)
Revelations,Tactics of Conquest,On Planet Alien & for some reason Phase IV (read after watching the film- or before ?!) also deserve a mention as personal favourites I return to.
I think the remaking of Sigmund was in many ways better as inividual short stories, but the novel is still predominantly great if you can endure its mantric style and enjoy Malzbergs darkly humourus bleak voice. Cross of Fire & Chorale are also similar in that.
Similarly, I've read masses of Malzberg over the decades and have a few of the recent Stark House reprints stashed for the moments when I need 'the voice' as you say. I read the first Lone Wolf book recently, but I doubt I'll read the rest, if I'm honest. The SF is, of course, peerless, as you suggest.