For all of us concerned about the Porsche IMS Bearing issue - I found a very informative article from Autohaus Hamilton in Australia about the IMS. The article also lists all the models and engines (with engine numbers) that are affected. To read the article just type in “Autohaus Hamilton IMS” into google. The Porsche models that are prone to IMS failure and should be replaced are: - All 986 Boxster models. - 987 Cayman & Boxster models up to engine number 61504715 - All 996 models (not including: GT and Turbo models) - 997 3.6ltr with M96/05 up to engine number 6950745
Is replacing the IMS bearing on the 997 engine much different than the older 996? I read online that the 997 bearing is harder to get replaced but the LN bearing in this video looks the same on the 996. Thanks
2Phast4Rocket most 997's use the larger M97 type bearing which can't be replaced without full disassembly of the engine. This early 2005 car had an M96 bearing in it. They are pretty rare.
Black Forest Racing did it fail because it has the M96? From what you said I understood somebody tried to fix it before you but made a poor job, it's that correct? Maybe they broke it trying to fix it the wrong way or just a regular m96 failure? Thanks!
It stands for InterMediate Shaft, it's in the video In this case, it is one of the major failure on the 996( 3.4 and 3.6), boxster and cayman and also in997.1 engines and to resolve this failure, it is replace by a ceramic ball bearing. the price is around 1700€ with leap seal,oil change, oil filter and IMS. French site but if you're intersted. www.45-autosport.com/garage-voiture-de-sport/reparation/fiabilisation-moteur-porsche/
If you're into cars you will not pay someone else to work on it, which would cost a lot of money. If all you want to do is drive something, you're not into cars.
I currently have the same issue with my 2006 997 C4S. I had the same brand IMS "EPS" installed as preventive measure in Miami. Now I have metal shaving in the oil and oil filter. Is it possible that this could occur because of it being installed incorrectly? I am aware the that brand of IMS is bored into the engine use a boring tool. What are your thoughts? Thanks!
@Porsche File IMHO, the EPS IMS bearing is substandard. LN is the only bearing that is backed my US patents. If you didn't want LN, you can even get a replacement bearing from Porsche... yep, I said... even Porsche. Metal in your oil can be from many factors. For example, when the original OEM bearing was replaced with the EPS, did your engine go through a pre-qualification process? In so many cases, the original bearings in these cars were already shedding metal and causing other parts to wear prematurely. The owners would get the IMS bearing swapped out in spite of the preexisting damage. The engine fails with the newer IMS bearing, and the owner blames the bearing. But the reality is... it wasn't the new bearing. It was the collateral damage from the old bearing.
A mechanical engineer who sets a design for a shaft using both pressurized insert bearings that have clearance for riding on a film of oil along with a roller or ball bearing that essentially has zero clearance should have his ticket pulled and retrained. The ball/roller bearing will in effect be supporting the entire shaft until it gets pounded to pieces-and of course that is just what is happening. On a given shaft it’s either all ball/rollers or all pressurized. Too many parts to these engines especially all the chains; we’ve seen what just one split roller does-- total destruction. Design may look cool with the mass of moving parts, just as long as they all keep moving in their order....
This engine's timing chain system is nothing to be concerned about. Have a look at an Audi V8....and to make matters worse the chains are at the BACK of the engine, sandwiched between the engine and the transmission.
The IMS bearing shown is one of the fancy, and expensive, roller bearing that is designed not to fail. I guess the previous repair didn't do a good job at replacing the bearing.
2Phast4Rocket the car never even ran with the new bearing. Not only was the install botched, but the valves were already bent anyways before they even did the work.
I heard is it true that only the 2005 to 2008 997 3.8 L engines that potentially have IMS failures? not the 3.6 L (i.e none S Models for 2005 to 2008) Porsche fixed the problem for 2009 models & newer is that correct?
The engine in the video is a 2005 3.6L and had a failed IMS bearing. All of the pre-2009 cars are in danger of a failure, but the worst are the 2002-2005 996 and 986.
Approximately how much would an entire engine tear down cost? I am wanting to buy an older model Porsche 911 but am hesitant due to these IMS bearing failures. Thanks in advance.
To rebuild an M96 or M97 engine that has nothing mechanically broken is typically in the $5000-6000 range depending on options. It's not uncommon to need to replace some of the timing chain guides which drive the cost up a little. If it's got a failed IMS bearing you can get close to $10,000 pretty easily with bent valves and whatnot.
Your 2006 Boxster has the 3rd version of the IMS bearing. It should a single row bearing but bigger. It is supposed to be the strongest of the 3 bearing made and the least likely to fail. If you try to replace it, it will be much for expensive than the 2000 to 2005 model years as yours would require cracking open the engine case. I would think you should not have anything to worry about. I have heard failure rates for 2006 to 2008 models years cars is like 1%.
Sergio Rey-Silva this engine had the stock bearing fail, then another shop tried to just install a new aftermarket bearing without doing any other repairs. When it wouldn't start afterwards (because the timing was off and it had bent valves) they sent the car to us to be properly repaired.
The IMS in the 997 3.6 and 3.8 are identical parts. They are the large version of the bearing, so the most reliable version there is. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. If you go in there to do a clutch, considering adding a DOF kit.
Pete N not yet, the larger bearing cars seem to be much better. We are just about ready to post a new video with a new product that will help prevent a failure though so stay tuned!
@@finleyrealty where is your proof? You say BS but you haven't said anything to back it up IMS failure caused by acidic old oil breaking down the seals and corroding ball bearings leading to failure of the IMS that is owner neglect. Just like saying a rusty car is the builder's fault. Or a seized engine is poor design.
@@eddherring3088 its spoor design from an engineering standpoint. I have a 2007 cs2 that has the oiled changed every 60 days about every 3000 miles. The IMS just failed and I have to replace the engine. that's my proof
See this video from PCA with a training center on Porsche engine talking about IMS: th-cam.com/video/i14LKvAW-So/w-d-xo.html. The gist of the video is as follow: - 1997 to 2000 porsche engines have double row bearings. These are the 1st gen IMS bearings and also considered to be 2nd sturdiest among the three different IMS generations - 2001 to 2005 porsche engines have single row bearings. These are the weakest and most prone to IMS failure - 2006 to 2008 porsche engines have bigger and sealed single row bearings. These are the sturdiest among the three IMS generations and least prone to IMS failure I am sleeping a little bit better at night knowing that my 2008 Cayman S is the safest among all Porsche engines with IMS. I still don't sleep soundly because the chance of IMS failure with my 2008 CS is still there. Does anyone know the statistics of IMS failures with 2006 to 2008 Porsche engine generations?
Vincent: It has been debunked the seal in the sealed bearing is the cause of the IMS problem. The seal is there to prevent any particle contamination from reaching the bearing. The oil can get into the seal and lubricate the just fine. The problem is when the car is neglected and the oil build up varnish and other solids got trapped inside and this accelerated the bearing wear, thus led to the bearing failures. Bad engineering design overall. A good engine design should allow an engine to sit and won't damage it. Look at aviation engines or boat engines. They sometimes sit for months on end and started and operated just fine.
Sorry man, but if you think any Japanese car is comparable to anything by the European makes, you're simply not into cars. It's like comparing 'steak' at Denny's to STEAK at Ruth's Chris.
jim metro Yeah, but so what? No one lusts after Toyotas. The only people that do are almost also into things like collecting potato chips that look like their favorite celebrities.
![Why Do NASCAR Teams Use This Technology? | Calico DLC Coatings [TECH TALK]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AunRiiSidBE/mqdefault.jpg)
For all of us concerned about the Porsche IMS Bearing issue - I found a very informative article from Autohaus Hamilton in Australia about the IMS. The article also lists all the models and engines (with engine numbers) that are affected. To read the article just type in “Autohaus Hamilton IMS” into google. The Porsche models that are prone to IMS failure and should be replaced are: - All 986 Boxster models. - 987 Cayman & Boxster models up to engine number 61504715 - All 996 models (not including: GT and Turbo models) - 997 3.6ltr with M96/05 up to engine number 6950745
Where on the engine can you find the number on the 996 and 997?
On my 997 it is underneath the car on the left side of the engine, you should see the serial number engraved on the case.
Would my 2006 997 4S be safe?
Your 9974S has an M97 engine. Different. (All the 997 non-S engines are M96. All S engines are M97.
It's more than just replacing the IMS bearing, the bearing also needs a oil bypass modification so the bearing gets a constant feed of oil pressure.
WOW! What a nice, clean and organized shop!!
Same happened to my 997.1 I had fitted Rms retro fit.....so far so good👍
Is replacing the IMS bearing on the 997 engine much different than the older 996? I read online that the 997 bearing is harder to get replaced but the LN bearing in this video looks the same on the 996. Thanks
2Phast4Rocket most 997's use the larger M97 type bearing which can't be replaced without full disassembly of the engine. This early 2005 car had an M96 bearing in it. They are pretty rare.
Black Forest Racing did it fail because it has the M96? From what you said I understood somebody tried to fix it before you but made a poor job, it's that correct? Maybe they broke it trying to fix it the wrong way or just a regular m96 failure? Thanks!
What does IMS stand for, how often does it need replacement, what is the cost and what is the final cost to repair this engine?
It stands for InterMediate Shaft, it's in the video
In this case, it is one of the major failure on the 996( 3.4 and 3.6), boxster and cayman and also in997.1 engines and to resolve this failure, it is replace by a ceramic ball bearing.
the price is around 1700€ with leap seal,oil change, oil filter and IMS.
French site but if you're intersted. www.45-autosport.com/garage-voiture-de-sport/reparation/fiabilisation-moteur-porsche/
www.oregonpca.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ORPCA-IMS.pdf
Some call it Immediate Money Sinkhole
If you're into cars you will not pay someone else to work on it, which would cost a lot of money. If all you want to do is drive something, you're not into cars.
My guess was "Intense Money Sucker."
I currently have the same issue with my 2006 997 C4S. I had the same brand IMS "EPS" installed as preventive measure in Miami. Now I have metal shaving in the oil and oil filter. Is it possible that this could occur because of it being installed incorrectly? I am aware the that brand of IMS is bored into the engine use a boring tool. What are your thoughts? Thanks!
Did you get the oil feed bypass option as well?
@Porsche File IMHO, the EPS IMS bearing is substandard. LN is the only bearing that is backed my US patents. If you didn't want LN, you can even get a replacement bearing from Porsche... yep, I said... even Porsche. Metal in your oil can be from many factors. For example, when the original OEM bearing was replaced with the EPS, did your engine go through a pre-qualification process? In so many cases, the original bearings in these cars were already shedding metal and causing other parts to wear prematurely. The owners would get the IMS bearing swapped out in spite of the preexisting damage. The engine fails with the newer IMS bearing, and the owner blames the bearing. But the reality is... it wasn't the new bearing. It was the collateral damage from the old bearing.
A mechanical engineer who sets a design for a shaft using both pressurized insert bearings that have clearance for riding on a film of oil along with a roller or ball bearing that essentially has zero clearance should have his ticket pulled and retrained. The ball/roller bearing will in effect be supporting the entire shaft until it gets pounded to pieces-and of course that is just what is happening.
On a given shaft it’s either all ball/rollers or all pressurized. Too many parts to these engines especially all the chains; we’ve seen what just one split roller does-- total destruction. Design may look cool with the mass of moving parts, just as long as they all keep moving in their order....
This engine's timing chain system is nothing to be concerned about. Have a look at an Audi V8....and to make matters worse the chains are at the BACK of the engine, sandwiched between the engine and the transmission.
The IMS bearing shown is one of the fancy, and expensive, roller bearing that is designed not to fail. I guess the previous repair didn't do a good job at replacing the bearing.
2Phast4Rocket the car never even ran with the new bearing. Not only was the install botched, but the valves were already bent anyways before they even did the work.
Wow, that is even worse.
I heard is it true that only the 2005 to 2008 997 3.8 L engines that potentially have IMS failures? not the 3.6 L (i.e none S Models for 2005 to 2008) Porsche fixed the problem for 2009 models & newer is that correct?
The engine in the video is a 2005 3.6L and had a failed IMS bearing. All of the pre-2009 cars are in danger of a failure, but the worst are the 2002-2005 996 and 986.
Approximately how much would an entire engine tear down cost? I am wanting to buy an older model Porsche 911 but am hesitant due to these IMS bearing failures. Thanks in advance.
To rebuild an M96 or M97 engine that has nothing mechanically broken is typically in the $5000-6000 range depending on options. It's not uncommon to need to replace some of the timing chain guides which drive the cost up a little. If it's got a failed IMS bearing you can get close to $10,000 pretty easily with bent valves and whatnot.
I have a 06 boxster s with a 3.2l engine. Is this a bad engine that's known for bad ims's? Thanks in advance!
Your 2006 Boxster has the 3rd version of the IMS bearing. It should a single row bearing but bigger. It is supposed to be the strongest of the 3 bearing made and the least likely to fail. If you try to replace it, it will be much for expensive than the 2000 to 2005 model years as yours would require cracking open the engine case. I would think you should not have anything to worry about. I have heard failure rates for 2006 to 2008 models years cars is like 1%.
Wait a moment... this looks like one of those cylindrical roller bearings (not stock). So those don't fix the issue? Or was this not a bearing issue?
Sergio Rey-Silva this engine had the stock bearing fail, then another shop tried to just install a new aftermarket bearing without doing any other repairs. When it wouldn't start afterwards (because the timing was off and it had bent valves) they sent the car to us to be properly repaired.
Old thread but anybody know if the 997.1 Carrera S with the 3.8 had ims issues as common as the 3.6?
The IMS in the 997 3.6 and 3.8 are identical parts. They are the large version of the bearing, so the most reliable version there is. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. If you go in there to do a clutch, considering adding a DOF kit.
@@BlackForestRacingok thank you for the info.
This guy is fast
I have the IMS Solution in my '06 C2s and drive it like I stole it without any concerns.
Have you seen or hear of a 2007 porsche boxster s having a ims fail..
Pete N not yet, the larger bearing cars seem to be much better. We are just about ready to post a new video with a new product that will help prevent a failure though so stay tuned!
Great, looking forward to see the next video...
Nice
Is the car 3600cc
Basically the shop that bought this engine to you is just a part changer. They have no idea how to diagnose and fix Porsche engines.
the music?
I honestly can't recall the name of the song, but it was found on the royalty free TH-cam music section.
thanks!!!!
th-cam.com/video/Xr4Zi_BQZeI/w-d-xo.html
What a time bomb! Imagine such poor design in an expensive car..what were Porsche engineers thinking?
Well, the 996 isn't an expensive car anymore. You can buy it for about the same price as a used Honda Accord because of the potential timebomb.
Nothing wrong with the IMS design. IMS bearing is a secondary failure, the result of poor basic maintenance and lack of driving regularly/daily
@@eddherring3088 bs , poor design ! .
@@finleyrealty where is your proof? You say BS but you haven't said anything to back it up IMS failure caused by acidic old oil breaking down the seals and corroding ball bearings leading to failure of the IMS that is owner neglect. Just like saying a rusty car is the builder's fault. Or a seized engine is poor design.
@@eddherring3088 its spoor design from an engineering standpoint. I have a 2007 cs2 that has the oiled changed every 60 days about every 3000 miles. The IMS just failed and I have to replace the engine. that's my proof
The only reason that bearing failed is the appalling way it was fitted!
Well it had failed and then they tossed in another bearing on an engine that was already screwed, and yeah they did a horrible job.
buy a 2009 problem solved or buy a turbo model
a better soundtrack would have been something from Benny Hill
See this video from PCA with a training center on Porsche engine talking about IMS: th-cam.com/video/i14LKvAW-So/w-d-xo.html.
The gist of the video is as follow:
- 1997 to 2000 porsche engines have double row bearings. These are the 1st gen IMS bearings and also considered to be 2nd sturdiest among the three different IMS generations
- 2001 to 2005 porsche engines have single row bearings. These are the weakest and most prone to IMS failure
- 2006 to 2008 porsche engines have bigger and sealed single row bearings. These are the sturdiest among the three IMS generations and least prone to IMS failure
I am sleeping a little bit better at night knowing that my 2008 Cayman S is the safest among all Porsche engines with IMS. I still don't sleep soundly because the chance of IMS failure with my 2008 CS is still there.
Does anyone know the statistics of IMS failures with 2006 to 2008 Porsche engine generations?
Just remove the seal of the bearing when you get your clutch done.
Vincent: It has been debunked the seal in the sealed bearing is the cause of the IMS problem. The seal is there to prevent any particle contamination from reaching the bearing. The oil can get into the seal and lubricate the just fine. The problem is when the car is neglected and the oil build up varnish and other solids got trapped inside and this accelerated the bearing wear, thus led to the bearing failures. Bad engineering design overall. A good engine design should allow an engine to sit and won't damage it. Look at aviation engines or boat engines. They sometimes sit for months on end and started and operated just fine.
I would have mine changed if you can do it for free.... please
slow it down
Why put up with this horse shit ? Just get your EGO under control & get a Hyundai ! Dumped my beemer for one, never looked back !!!!
"Teardown"....unessesary
@craig chick kubisz, nope, we repaired this engine for this client.
Junk cars. You will never see that kind of issue in a Japanese car. There is a reason German cars always rank bottom in consumers report.
s trav but it is one hell of a drive though
A honda civic will never handle like a porsche would
Sorry man, but if you think any Japanese car is comparable to anything by the European makes, you're simply not into cars. It's like comparing 'steak' at Denny's to STEAK at Ruth's Chris.
toyota straight 6 can handle over 1k hp, honda v6 bullet proof as well
jim metro Yeah, but so what? No one lusts after Toyotas. The only people that do are almost also into things like collecting potato chips that look like their favorite celebrities.