Dude, you really need to do a temple open house walk through. You get more of the symbols and architecture that advertises that you are in a sacred space.
(Been a member of the LDS church my whole life) Your video made my whole day. I definitely will be following your channel. I feel like you're doing exactly what God wants us to do to be curious and ask questions.
Okay. This is my time to shine. I'm one of probably like 5 experts on Mormon Church architecture. Every meetinghouse (for the most part) built after ~1965 is one of many "standard plans". Typically there are around 5 standard plans in each decade, and every meetinghouse built in that era is one of those standard plans. The first chapel you went to, the one with no windows, is referred to as either the "Cody" or "Sage" plan (depending on size). They were built from ~1981-1990 and were built explicitly to be practical and cheap. They are now one of the more common designs and universally considered by Latter-day Saints to be the worst of the standard plans.
@therandomheretek5403 I'm Mormon and I always thought it was interesting how a lot of the buildings looked the same. I started looking into it, reading a bunch of sources, compiling them, and one thing led to another I ended up becoming a subject matter expert.
@@monkeytastix Respectfully, it seems to me that many Mormon temples are designed to appear bigger than they really are. It is something to do with perspective and how the eye loses a sense of size. Can you please comment on this? Is this intentional?
Yep, I meet in one of those chapels without windows--constructed in '96, actually, and I sure liked a lot of the older designs a lot better. Our building is a Stake Center (HQ for several wards and multiple buildings), and it is truly awful in several ways. 1-It houses four wards (congregations and offices for their leadership) and the stake leadership, it's too small, for all of that. 2-The "stand is at floor level, but the chapel floor slopes down so it seems like the stand is raised, but it's at the same level as the overflow area, which we use ever Sunday, so you can't really see the speakers from half of the seats. 3-We have to rent larger building to meet as a stake, because we can't all fit in the chapel, even with the overflow, cultural hall, and stage filled with folding chairs. There's no hallway that goes across the front, so if there's a meeting in the chapel, one must walk all the way to the back, across, and then all the way to the front, again. I could list several other disappointing things about the building, but in the end, the church isn't a building. It's the people--and the opportunity to worship God together and learn more about Him that is the point of being there. And there could be much worse environments for doing that than my unfortunately-poorly-designed church building.
As a “Mormon” I prefer listening to atheists over dogmatic “Christians”. I think your take on Fast Sunday is kind of spot on. And I am in the bishopric of my ward 😂.
It gets quite obnoxious when the typical response is "You're in a cult, save yourself!" or, "You're not a Trinitarian, therefore not Christian!" (especially when most don't even understand the Trinity themselves anyway and end up falling into heresy by expalaining it). Terrible way to evangelize...I feel you.
Please do more on JW. I am one, and I love your videos. It's so refreshing to see an outsider's perspective. I was raised in the organisation and I thought it was the truth when I got baptised. If i knew what I know now, I would never get baptised because now I can't leave with my relationships intact. It feels like being in a gang or mafia What really woke me up mentally was comparing the JW org to LDS org and SDA and realised that it's just American men claiming divine appointment and authority. It's such a scam! I can't speak for other denominations but being a JW is not worth it. The loss of autonomy and mental freedom far outweigh any benefits of being in the group. Please keep doing what you do. I am not an atheist but I have a new found appreciation for people on different paths. Your videos make me fall in love with humanity.
I used to be LDS, now I’m Catholic, yet I still slide into the pews of a Latter-day Saint chapel every Sunday, right alongside my wife. Conversley, she comes to Mass with me on Saturdays. You’d think I’d feel like a grizzly bear invited to a tea party, but honestly, it’s surprisingly comfortable. I’m a Catholic guy through and through. The incense, the quiet dignity, the sense of continuity stretching back through the centuries, that’s all home for me. But when I step into an LDS service, I can’t help but grin a bit. There’s something genuinely appealing about the way they do community, like everyone’s decided that being neighborly isn’t just a nice idea, it’s the main course. The handshakes, the head nods, the “how’s your family doing?” stuff might be simple, but it’s solid gold in a world that’s often too busy glaring down at smartphones to notice anyone else. I’ve told my wife that if she ever stopped going, I’d be kind of bummed out. Not because I’m looking to swap creeds again, but because their Sunday scene has a special little pocket in my heart. I’ve developed a taste for their brand of fellowship, and it’d feel like losing a well-stocked pantry of kindness and baked goods. Again, I’m Catholic to my core and won’t be switching jerseys again, but I’ve still got some lingering LDS in my bloodstream. I’m grateful for that. It’s made me better at being Christian, more aware of how faith can build bridges and not just erect barricades. It’s nice to see someone else out there nudging believers to up their game and be better at living the ideals they claim.
This is a terrible idea and your wife is associating with heretics. You need to be a man and correct this asap. I had the same issue, as my wife was a JW. Her choices were, come with me to church or prove my position incorrect and I'll be a JW . She could not prove me wrong no matter how hard she tried and because of that I told her there is absolutely no reason for me to allow her to continue as a JW as it only leads to damnation. So her choices were then to come to church or get out of my house, as I cannot allow heretics in my home. Things have been amazing ever since I put my foot down and she is now attending church with me regularly.
@@a.ihistory5879 Wow. That’s a wonderfully subtle approach to marital and spiritual harmony, kind of like using a wrecking ball to hang a picture frame. Let me get this straight: The best way to nurture a loving, spiritually vibrant marriage is by issuing an ultimatum more fitting for a Saturday morning cartoon supervillain than, say, an actual human being? Because nothing screams “Christ-like love” quite like “my way or get out.” It’s like the religious equivalent of holding a hostage negotiation with your spouse’s soul, and trust me, that’s not a selling point for your personal brand of faith. Honestly, if you’re going for high-quality, lasting spiritual unity, basing it on an intellectual victory lap and brute-force threats is about as stable as a Jenga tower in an earthquake. Sure, you can probably bully someone into a pew, but the second you turn your back, resentment will be growing like a bad mold stain behind the drywall. Faith isn’t a cage you lock someone in, it’s an invitation to a banquet, a common table. Your approach? More like chained rations in a basement. Fun times. Anyway, as for me, I’m in no rush to follow the advice of someone who treats the faith of their spouse like a puzzle to be “solved” and a home like a cheap motel you can just kick someone out of. I’m sure it “worked” for you (in the sense that authoritarian measures do tend to enforce compliance) but I’ll stick with something more closely resembling love, understanding, actual human decency, and allow God to draw her in His time, thanks. Have a nice day.
@@a.ihistory5879 Wow. That’s a wonderfully subtle approach to marital and spiritual harmony, kind of like using a wrecking ball to hang a picture frame. Let me get this straight: The best way to nurture a loving, spiritually vibrant marriage is by issuing an ultimatum more fitting for a Saturday morning cartoon supervillain than, say, an actual human being? Because nothing screams “Christ-like love” quite like “my way or get out.” It’s like the religious equivalent of holding a hostage negotiation with your spouse’s soul, and trust me, that’s not a selling point for your personal brand of faith.
@@a.ihistory5879 Honestly, if you’re going for high-quality, lasting spiritual unity, basing it on an intellectual victory lap and brute-force threats is about as stable as a Jenga tower in an earthquake. Sure, you can probably bully someone into a pew, but the second you turn your back, resentment will be growing like a bad mold stain behind the drywall. Faith isn’t a cage you lock someone in, it’s an invitation to a banquet, a common table. Your approach? More like chained rations in a basement. Fun times.
@@a.ihistory5879 Anyway, as for me, I’m in no rush to follow the advice of someone who treats the faith of their spouse like a puzzle to be “solved” and a home like a cheap motel you can just kick someone out of. I’m sure it “worked” for you (in the sense that authoritarian measures do tend to enforce compliance) but I’ll stick with something more closely resembling love, understanding, actual human decency, and allow God to work in His own time, thanks. Have a nice day.
I'm an atheist ex-mormon (left in adulthood, did a mission and all the temple stuff), and you've very nicely captured the diverse experiences you can have in the Mormon church. LDS members don't have a choice in which congregation they attend, it's geographically assigned, so it can create a lot of diversity in certain congregations. And that geographical region, along with ward leadership, largely dictates the tone of a ward. And since young single adult wards pull from a larger region than a typical ward, it's normal to see more diversity there. There were many things I loved about the LDS church, and the one I miss now is my built-in community. But ultimately I couldn't stay in an organization that claims things about its foundation that I came to believe are not true. Anyway, love your content. It's helped me process my thoughts and feelings during my experience leaving the faith.
I’m also an atheist but never went to the trouble of having my name removed. My wife is still a true believer and so I still attend occasionally for the sense of community. I go hiking with my bishop sometimes. He says I’m the most active atheist in the ward. I know there is plenty of batshit crazy stuff in LDS theology and history but that’s true of any religion from the outside looking in. It’s nice to hear from someone occasionally that also appreciates some of the positives despite the quirky parts of the origin story.
Active LDS here... loved this video, sorry you had a bad experience the first go around in a ward, when I was a full time missionary fast and testimony meetings where always scary for us because we where always afraid of what people would say lol, and people say all sorts of things lol. Thank you for your honesty, this was well said all around watched the whole thing good job!
Going from "I do not know why the Lord has let me live this long" to "Nemo, if you're watching this, you're my hero please be my friend" so fast it made my head roll haha
If you’re looking for some deep doctrine conversations from mormon perspectives, some good TH-cam channels are Saints Unscripted, Thoughtful Faith, or Keystone. Keystones prolly the best imo.
The fact that you know what doctrine and covenants are in the pearl of great price means that you know more about Mormons Than most people who are not Mormons. I am in the same boat. I have never been Mormon and have acquired a stupid amount of Mormon knowledge.
As a believer, I'm genuinely curious what is interesting to you? I find it fascinating, but it's interesting to me when people who don't believe the claims study it.
As an LDS person, at least one possible read on the not leading with the stuff that is 'interesting' is that there often isn't much to say about it. So, for a Latter-day Saint audience, really delving into the meaning just won't go anywhere. Like, in your example with the Latter-day Saint belief in a Heavenly Mother, the speaker you listened to probably said nearly all there is to say about Heavenly Mother. Latter-day Saints believe in Her, but know very little about exactly what Her role is or how she functions in a grand design. The official doctrine on the subject is that She exists, and basically no more than that. So, to lead with that is kind of missing the point of it all. While it is boring, the main 'thing' that the missionaries want people to experience is the Come-to-Jesus moments. When the periphery is important, I think most missionaries will go all in on it (I was that way serving a mission), but there's just no reason to go crazy on it when that person doesn't care and hasn't understood the core, important message first. And, the core, important message is the one most likely to actually help the most people. If someone needs a healing experience with a church community, what is going to help is them learning the basics and going to church, not learning about the intricacies of Celestial Marriage and its consequences. Certainly not always the case, but a possibility.
Clearly that person wasn't a true Christian. It's OK though, as their church says that about you guys. Actually they ALL do that! I'm more interested in what's true. I realize no churchy person cares for that.
I think a big part of the whole "not getting into the deep stuff" tends to be more about the whole milk before meat thing. It often is hard for people to grasp deep things when there is no foundation, if that makes sense. For example the whole man becoming God thing. To understand that, you have to understand the concepts of eternal progression, which means you need to understand our purpose or potential, which would mean understanding the nature of God and the soul, which leads into the plan of salvation, that goes into one thing then the next..... And since that isn't the main focus because it doesn't, in the long run, make a difference to salvation, it becomes a side topic. Missionaries are there to teach the basic principles of salvation, Faith in Christ, Repentance, Baptism, etc. On the plus side there are plenty of sources such as 'talks' on the cool deep stuff. Just make sure that if you are getting the "Anti" perspective side of things, give the "For" side a chance to rebut or explain. Enjoyed the video. 👍
No dude, singles ward was the best then you get married, go to a normal ward and you're like hey where did all the fun go. I guess we gotta have kids to have fun.
Glad you are having a good time. I recommend you talk to Jacob Hansen over at thoughtful faith. Might actually be a really interesting video. And I bet he would be willing to talk about anything with you. Especially theology, in a nonjudgmental way.
Ah yes… early 20s, when we know everything and need to prove it. I had a similar experience… except I was the one on the losing end of the argument. I left religion shortly after. Back to the topic at hand, the LDS Church down the road from me, have the nicest people I’ve ever interacted with. The missionaries were very kind and even gave me tickets to take my kid out to the carnival after my wife left. Ironically, the carnival was in the parking lot of a Catholic Church.
There are a few things about LDS theology that I love: 1) God did not prepare a hell (eternal punishment) for His children. 2) Latter-day Saints do not believe in a closed canon. It makes sense that God is not limited to only the Bible; His knowledge and wisdom are greater than that. That's why Latter-day Saints are open to receiving more scripture and revelation. 3) LDS theology emphasizes not only salvation but also progression. This means God put us on earth not only to be saved but also to progress. I think this reflects a more merciful plan from God for His children.
1) Well... not for roughly two-thirds of his children. The remaining third (however many billions those are) do receive eternal torment. Perhaps not a "prepared hell", but certainly suffering. 2) True. 3) True... according to what I learned and according to what is currently taught in the temple, but it feels like the potential to achieve godhood has been downplayed a lot recently.
@@TheNinjapancake14 no, I'm looking for a reason to 'hang out' at these places. I remain open to a good reason, it's just that nobody has supplied any. (Lots of fallacies though).
@@clearstonewindows but there is no evidence or reason of supernatural anything! Maybe it exists? Maybe it's TRUE? Wow that would be good. But atheists WITHHOLD belief, not guess! Atheists say: we don't believe your claim, nor Islam's claim, nor anyone's supernatural claim. Mind you I hope it's true. Oh my I'd love that. But we withold belief as it's an unsubstantiated claim, just like Zues!
25:00 It kind of has actually. Like you have 2 forms of Arabic in every Arabic speaking country. You have fusha, which is tied to the language of the Qur'an, and then you have the local forms of Arabic which have undergone their own evolutionary process.
As born and raised Mormon now atheist. You captured exactly the best part of the “Mormon experience” I personally have so many good memories hanging around the church with my friends. For me it was a physically safe and fun place to be. Pretty much EVERYTHING else is bad.
This was the first video I watched from this channel and it was so interesting! I've noticed that a lot of atheist channels ironically have a hard time just "shooting the breeze" with different ideas, and are a bit too focused on proving things right and wrong. Nothing wrong with that approach, but I find it dull to listen to people who are just criticizing religion to validate themselves. I feel like this video was refreshing to watch because your approach is driven by genuine curiosity. I like that you share your opinions and criticisms in a fair way that acknowledges nuance. I learned something new!
the mormon church is great for community and learning the gospel. Just don't SIN.. or don't tell the bishops your sins. this is the worst part of the LDS church. It never helps the sinner it only shames guilts and puts Fear into your heart. The leaders are all about disciplining the sinner instead of helping them. They don't understand Gods Grace and mercy. its all OBEDIENCE!!!
@@99blackbirdstoo late I already told them my sins and received great relief. Some bishops are further in there understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ then others. Obedience does play an important role and is how we gain knowledge, but we also have temperance, mercy, and love.
@04:43 "American Gnosticism... the perfect sales pitch". That, right there, is the kind of thing that keeps me coming back to your channel. Another great video, well done.
I truly appreciate your videos you have no idea, you deserve more views and more followers! even as a Christian, like you, I am very curious about other people's beliefs and how they practice them. As someone who doesn't live in the US, it is super interesting to see this large range of Christianity there and I like how you explore them and talk about them! Thanks again for your amazing content
Another banger of a video, my man. In your video about your experience with the bipolar gentleman, your phrase, "I guess I'm just mad at people who don't wrestle," really resonated with me, and I have incorporated the term wrestle into my own spiritual journey. And this is a prime example of the wrestling you do that inspires me-- go back to a place you originally had a negative experience and dig deeper to find a glimmer of good. There is a duality in most things I've found, especially to Agnostics like myself who continue to wrestle. I love your ACA videos, but for your next discussion video, I had a suggestion. If the subject intrigues you enough, I'd love to hear your opinion on your perspective on the difference between Agnostics and Athiests. To my ear, your openness and intrigue with religion strikes me as similar to my Agnostic worldview, but I'd love to hear more about your apparent confidence and firm foundation when declaring yourself an Athiest. Just a thought; take it or leave it. Keep up the great work, Jared. 🫡
Also, in my area, we don't call investigators as investigators, we call them friends. So... hey there, friend. Part of the reason for YSA is to meet Mr/Mrs Right, but it's also gives attendees opportunities to have responsibilities running a congregation (with the exception of bishop). Churches are built with more function over form in mind, and purposefully doesn't have symbolism (with exception of the sacrament) to help attendees focus on the moment. Temples, on the other hand, are brimming with symbolism, because that's how we learn and study the mysteries. Not all missionaries aren't theology experts, unless they're extremely nerdy. They're yoooung young adults, and their job isn't to teach everything, but give a general idea of the dogma. Think of them as encyclopedia salesmen. They're not going to know everything in the books, but they know enough to entice you to buy and read them yourself. Also, missionaries are generally discouraged by mission leaders to Bible bash. So being verbally aggressive or assertive will shut them down (and even cry). My experience with the Church of Jesus Christ is overall positive. We have the largest heaven, and the smallest hell. Individuals who never had the chance or willingness to learn will in the after life, and can progress forward. Heaven isn't a big cloud where we play lyres forever, but learn the laws of nature and become creators ourselves. There were definitely people in the church (even in authoritative callings) who rub me the wrong way, but that's on them and my relationship to them, and not on the church's doctrine.
A minor point: Missionaries aren't apologists. They're more like tour guides. They teach the gospel at a simple level. They don't engage in theological debates or arguments
I would encourage you to look for a temple open house...during those free events, you can go inside to do tours. They have a much different feel than the typical meetinghouses. They happen usually only before the temple opens for use, but sometimes after renovations they have a new open house.
I’m glad you found yourself at a Young Adult ward. I’m in one now, and it’s so much more lively and exciting than any of the other wards I have been a part of. Also, I appreciate your honest insights.
I’ve been a part of many many different wards all over the world. Yes, sadly the church buildings are super boring but the people are all pretty genuine. I definitely don’t go to church for the entertainment. Glad you got to see a different side of the Mormon church. Also, there aren’t any unsavory things in the temples lol.
It's not bad here! Downtown is pretty nice during Christmas. Only thing to watch out for is the inversion that tends to sit until we get a front to sweep it away.
It was interesting for you to go to a different Ward and learn about new types of Mormon members, but it was interesting for me to hear your story as a missionary, knowing that you're now atheist. Have you watched Alyssa Grenfell's videos?! You should, and then you two should interview each other! I would love to watch that.
Man I hope you get to talk at some point with Alex O'Connor, your approach to atheism is quite interesting, I'm almost tempted to get back to church! 😂
Hey I’m LDS, (church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) glad you liked it, it’s the church of the latter days or the last days, that’s why it’s called of the latter days, because it’s the true church of the latter days, this is a cool idea for a channel
I remember that in 1985. My parents said the first heard about it in 1950. What reasoning do they provide? None. Just a very awkward (generally sexist) outdated belief.
It's a dangerous cult with a few stolen Masonic handshakes, verifiably false historical claims and a lot of immorality, misogyny, and sexual deviance and polygamy from Joseph Smith and the other scammers.
0:46 - funny you should ask. Yeah. I think most of us (Catholics, Coptics, Orthodox, mainline Protestant, vaguely orthodox nondenom prot, etc) would call Mormon Christ a different Christ
I think this is fair. We would like to be called Christians, But we're not fans of any of the creeds. And Yes the Christ we believe in Still has a body and sits next to his Father, who also has a body. And that the purpose of life is to grow to become like them. That's right I said them.
I just became aware of your channel. Having been born and raised LDS before leaving the faith and going on my own journey beginning about a year and a half ago, I found this really enjoyable. It's always fun to see someone experience something that was so normal and formative for me experiencing it for the first time and give an honest reaction. I'm glad you got to have a more positive experience than your initial fast and testimony meetings that you alluded to before. Those meetings, while they can be useful for some members, honestly don't represent the best of LDS worship meetings, in my opinion. I'll be looking forward to more content from your channel going forward. Best wishes on your journey.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints got me. I was an atheist in college attending the LDS church. Eventually I ended up in a baptismal font…then my wife…now my family…and I am loving it…we are loving it.
Back when I was a curious young atheist, I talked to the Mormons for a bit and went to one of their services. But I was in my early 30s so they invited me to the old people service and not the young adult service. Maybe if they invited me to hang out with the hot aspiring Mormon mommies I would have came back a second time. As was, it was a very boring service that reminded me of my Jehovah's Witness background. And it wasn't so nice to know that at 30 years old, I was already seen as expired lettuce
Last Mother’s Day a man gave a talk on Heavenly Mother in my former Ward(I moved to a different state), I love talks that go into deep subjects sometimes. The reason why we may shy away from the interesting stuff is because in the New Testament, Paul advises “Milk before Meat”, and we’ve interpreted that as to mean we must primarily focus on the simple stuff first, especially for new people, and often times that gets to the more interesting things being forgotten. I’m kind of a nerd in Church theology and history so I like talking about that stuff.
What’s really interesting is visiting other Book of Mormon believing churches like the Bickertonites. They are the lds charismatic cousins and I love them
I spent about 2 1/2 years questioning and considering leaving the church. I eventually decided to stay because I found nothing better. I choose to believe even if I don't know for sure like some people say.
@kimsland999 If you say so. Bad form to tell me what I meant though. The other option is I studied, considered, and made a choice... It's possible for someone to disagree with you and still have good rationale.
@@IJN-33 on your 2nd irrelevant point, ofcourse people of good (or bad) standing can agree/disagree with any personal view. Back to topic. If belief was a choice you could believe in a totally different contradictory religion for a day, just to see how they feel. Good test to do. What's that? You won't? Oh that's because belief is not a choice. Beliefs form from good or bad reasoning. To remove any (clearly false) belief, you merely need to question why it's true? So far no theist has come up with an answer to that. Try is there even a tiny bit of truth in it? Still so far no one has ever provided that. Mind you, a lot of personal feelings come out!
@@IJN-33 well thanks for the emotional fun part, however you probably should consider reason on any theistic belief. Hint: there isn't any reason to believe (except poor emotions and instruction of course). I do debate theists and am aware of all their fallacies. Ad-Hominen generally being their ridiculous judgement at the end. But I know you won't do that right? Dust balls from the theist.
As an ex-LDS atheist who also did spend 2 years on a mission, I completely understand where you're coming from of having both good and bad experiences in LDS churches. I would say that was my experience as well. I will definitely say that my years in the young single adult wards were - overall - the best years I spent there. (I wasn't an atheist at that point.) But if you're an actual member, then once you get married, you're not longer allowed to attend young single adult wards. I definitely agree with your assessment that the "deep doctrine" (as they call it) can be some of the more interesting things. But if you dive deep enough into the cosmic stuff, you realize there's a lot of cosmic stuff sounds - well - made up. One example, when Joseph Smith was asked what the ancient language created by God called the sun, he literally said - I shit you not - Shinehah. Yeah. It's almost comical.
Glad your video came across my feed. I served a mission in Russia, it was an amazing experience and I loved every minute of it. Glad you have genuine curiosity. The Book of Mormon is Another Testament of Jesus Christ, read it with an open heart. There is a living prophet living today. Love that you are celebrating a small win! God bless!
Yeah. One of the leaders (Patrick Kearon) recently gave a talk entitled, "Welcome to the Church of Joy," and I believe that in general we are a joyful people. That being said, if you want to see "The Church of Joy," sometimes open mic Sunday is not the best time.
I'm a Catholic, and I once heard a Catholic convert from mormonism say on a podcast that the Catholic and lds churches have alot of structural similarities. Catholic pope lds president, diocese and stake. I kinda view this as why the lds church has been so successful compared to other groups like them, ie jws.
@@TheNinjapancake14 The idea is that you need to marry someone within the faith. LDS doctrine states that marriages in the temple are eternal, and you can only get into the temple if you're a temple worthy church member. So, to make it easier, if you are over the age of 18 you go to church with all the young single adult church members in your town and hopefully you fall in love and get to go to the family ward together. There's also lots of activities and get-togethers planned throughout the week. My ward went bowling together, we did karaoke, hiking, lots of fun hanging out as a group. The bishop of our ward also let us bring food to his house, and we had a planned food fight in his backyard. We played basketball, dodge ball, and a made-up game called "chair soccer" with folding chairs (it was slightly dangerous) all in the church gym, aka the cultural hall. People get creative and have a lot of fun. But as soon as you get married, you are expected to go to the family ward and start trying to have kids asap and have as many kids as possible. There's theology reasons for having big families. And that's why Mormons have the stereotype of having lots of kids.
If only that were true, we would expect religions to be established later after civilizations and cities came about. But instead we see the opposite. Religions happened before people started gathering in large cities. It seems to predate civilization. This would indicate people sought each other out because they already had shared beliefs, potentially being a catalyst for the founding of cities. There is a part of the human experience that isn’t explainable apart from religion/the supernatural. Many strange things happen in this world. I myself and others I know have seen them. Ghosts, shadow people, and the like are quite real.
I found your perspective on the "perceived time" of the various religions very interesting. Do you feel an anachronistic atmosphere is necessary for a religious service? What benefits (or drawbacks) do you believe exist in having an anachronistic atmosphere?
"Fishers of Men" by Chris Capel is such a brutal film. I also highly recommend it, but don't go in without steeling yourself. Perhaps it hits a bit harder for me since I was once a mormon missionary, but it is powerful regardless.
yeah, going on a fast and testimony meeting like in your last video is SUCH a gamble. It can be really good or reallly bad. In general, because we don't have paid clergy or professional speakers, church is more about connecting with God and the community and giving everyone a chance to testify than it is about enjoying yourself per se, although hopefully you do enjoy yourself.
Awesome video. Love your humor and no holds barred opinions. I loved my time in YSA ward. Not having the responsibility that I have now as mom, wife, business owner, and just being able to geek out about spirituality is awesome. It's funny though cause with all the responsibility and work of life, its not the super fun random deep dive stuff that's getting me through (but don't get me wrong it is soooooo much fun). It is the super simple stuff that's giving me strength. The practical benefits for proper prayer, scripture study, and serving your neighbor are more important so they deserve more time. 100% would talk for hours about Heavenly Mother and temples and linguistic symbolism in the Book of Mormon though. That is totally my idea a good time.
I became a Mormon when I was 18. Personally best decision of my life, although I admit it is absolutely not for everyone. Where you live makes a massive difference too. I absolutely loved the congregation I was baptized in. Moved a few times and now I'm in one that is pretty meh...thankfully I have a solid 15 years previous experiences to feed off of. Until one day I will move again...
I’m finishing a college class on ancient Christian literature. We’ve learned a bit about Gnosticism and a few other ideas. It’s hard to say whether all of the different beliefs are the result of people just believing things because they make sense with no regard for actual truth, or if it’s all more akin to various reflections on a distorted lake.
7:30 you are kinda joking here, but that is absolutely the strategy the LDS church uses to retain people, and that is triple-y true for members in Utah where the culture is the same as the church culture. After leaving the church a few years ago, I wonder a lot why people are still in when the issues are so obvious to me now. I have to remind myself that, for most people, it is easier to believe and stay where they are familiar than question and venture into the unknown.
Ok, Nemo the Mormon is amazing. That’s about the only thing I have positive to say about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The deeper you dive the more you’d have to critique.
@@Hi-jw7oq It's a deep rabbit hole, but off the top of my head: Polygamy ; treatment of LGBTQ+; denying the priesthood to black members until 1980ish; finances; truth claims from scripture and things leaders have said; temples (everything from how they bully small towns into getting to build whatever they want, despite building codes, by threat of lawsuit to the oaths members make and historically made in the temple; excommunication of people who criticize leaders (even when it's true); The Book of Mormon's historicity; Joseph Smith's origins as a conman; using their own law firm to cover up abuse cases; and on and on and on....
Yeah as a missionary, we used to cringe when people would show up for a testimony meeting. People are supposed to testify of the truthfulness of the gospel, but it devolves into a super sad therapy session where people vent about their trials. I think your second visit was much more normal. Family wards are good for families, but single people just don’t have a place in that framework. The women’s meetings are all about women’s roles in the family and men’s meetings are the same for them. Young single adult wards are necessary to keep people going, because church isn’t really edifying in a family ward if you’re on your own. As an exmo atheist now, I didn’t really have a problem with church and I still probably follow most of the same rules, but the problem is that it’s just wrong. The doctrines are wrong, the Book of Mormon is a 19th century book of fiction and if I wanted to talk about a book for hours on end, I’d join a book club that doesn’t charge 10% of my income. But for the most part, if you’re a heteronormative, conservative leaning white person, Mormonism probably has good vibes for you.
Man, I just found your channel and loved your video. I'm LDS, and I would like to see you talking with Jacob Hansen from Thoughtful Faith. Invite him to one of your conversations.
also for your questions, that i know you got, I'm a service missionary rn and an elder's quorum instructor and I'll answer literally any questions you have to the best of my ability. I mean, what a lot of people think is top secret, is just in our doctrine or online. they can look up all this stuff anyway. And as far as I'm concerned, if you can think of the question, you're ready to hear the answer. lmk.
Just FYI, anything and everything you'd like to study about our religion is in the Gospel Library app (you probably already have it). It's free, and there are topics like Heavenly Mother (although not a ton because we don't know a ton), Foreordination, The Millennium, etc.
Missionaries avoid bringing people to fast and testimony meetings for the first time because they're so improvised; basically, anything could happen. Most wards have a lot of old people, children, and families anyway. I think it's good you went to the YSA ward. The differences in wards are really just the people who attend them.
You should visit an FSSP or ICKSP church. These are Catholic Churches within certain fraternities with special permission to celebrate the mass in the pre-Vatican 2 form, the traditional latin mass.
I’m Christian, (Church of Christ, kinda like Baptist) but a lot of my friends are LDS, so this was cool to see. I’ve gone to a few of their services, and YSA is cool but it’s definitely dominated by the younger folk (18-22).
At the Church of Christ that I grew up in, it was very common to hear “thee’s” and “thou’s” and what not in prayers. We weren’t one of the “KJV only” congregations, but the majority of the congregation were old and that’s the translation most people used. It always kinda seemed weird to me that the KJV language would only pop up during prayers.
It really is a different experience in a single word. It’s probably because the fun gays are still hopeful about life. I’m not mad about you having a fun time as exmo
Don't feel guilty making a mormon missionary cry as long as you are honest. It is just that she was not prepared to handle this difficult conversation, trust me. She was young and was learning about real life. ;)
Talking about the Bible is my favorite thing too! After my evangelical deconstruction I got wrapped up in the academic study of the Bible, which can get quite polemic. Going tit for tat about theology to earn salvation point drains all the fun from talking about the Bible. I wonder what the LDS church experience would look like of they lead with the esoteric and gnostic doctrines. I'm talking about a service that transports you back to Biblical times, 1823!?
![เปิดคำทำนาย นอสตราดามุส - บาบา วานก้า ปี 2025 คนทั่วโลกต้องเจออะไรบ้าง? | แฉ 11 ธ.ค. 67 [2/3] |GMM25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xmTIKWJUMPM/mqdefault.jpg)
Dude, you really need to do a temple open house walk through. You get more of the symbols and architecture that advertises that you are in a sacred space.
(Been a member of the LDS church my whole life) Your video made my whole day. I definitely will be following your channel. I feel like you're doing exactly what God wants us to do to be curious and ask questions.
Okay. This is my time to shine. I'm one of probably like 5 experts on Mormon Church architecture. Every meetinghouse (for the most part) built after ~1965 is one of many "standard plans". Typically there are around 5 standard plans in each decade, and every meetinghouse built in that era is one of those standard plans. The first chapel you went to, the one with no windows, is referred to as either the "Cody" or "Sage" plan (depending on size). They were built from ~1981-1990 and were built explicitly to be practical and cheap. They are now one of the more common designs and universally considered by Latter-day Saints to be the worst of the standard plans.
How does one come across such niche knowledge?
@therandomheretek5403 I'm Mormon and I always thought it was interesting how a lot of the buildings looked the same. I started looking into it, reading a bunch of sources, compiling them, and one thing led to another I ended up becoming a subject matter expert.
@@monkeytastix Respectfully, it seems to me that many Mormon temples are designed to appear bigger than they really are. It is something to do with perspective and how the eye loses a sense of size. Can you please comment on this? Is this intentional?
Yep, I meet in one of those chapels without windows--constructed in '96, actually, and I sure liked a lot of the older designs a lot better. Our building is a Stake Center (HQ for several wards and multiple buildings), and it is truly awful in several ways. 1-It houses four wards (congregations and offices for their leadership) and the stake leadership, it's too small, for all of that. 2-The "stand is at floor level, but the chapel floor slopes down so it seems like the stand is raised, but it's at the same level as the overflow area, which we use ever Sunday, so you can't really see the speakers from half of the seats. 3-We have to rent larger building to meet as a stake, because we can't all fit in the chapel, even with the overflow, cultural hall, and stage filled with folding chairs. There's no hallway that goes across the front, so if there's a meeting in the chapel, one must walk all the way to the back, across, and then all the way to the front, again. I could list several other disappointing things about the building, but in the end, the church isn't a building. It's the people--and the opportunity to worship God together and learn more about Him that is the point of being there. And there could be much worse environments for doing that than my unfortunately-poorly-designed church building.
@@monkeytastix Thanks!
As a “Mormon” I prefer listening to atheists over dogmatic “Christians”. I think your take on Fast Sunday is kind of spot on. And I am in the bishopric of my ward 😂.
It gets quite obnoxious when the typical response is "You're in a cult, save yourself!" or, "You're not a Trinitarian, therefore not Christian!" (especially when most don't even understand the Trinity themselves anyway and end up falling into heresy by expalaining it). Terrible way to evangelize...I feel you.
Me too!!!
When are you going to a Seventh-Day Adventist Church?
Not a modern/progressive SDA church, he needs to visit a traditional SDA church to get the real experience.
Please do more on JW. I am one, and I love your videos. It's so refreshing to see an outsider's perspective. I was raised in the organisation and I thought it was the truth when I got baptised.
If i knew what I know now, I would never get baptised because now I can't leave with my relationships intact.
It feels like being in a gang or mafia
What really woke me up mentally was comparing the JW org to LDS org and SDA and realised that it's just American men claiming divine appointment and authority.
It's such a scam!
I can't speak for other denominations but being a JW is not worth it. The loss of autonomy and mental freedom far outweigh any benefits of being in the group.
Please keep doing what you do. I am not an atheist but I have a new found appreciation for people on different paths. Your videos make me fall in love with humanity.
I used to be LDS, now I’m Catholic, yet I still slide into the pews of a Latter-day Saint chapel every Sunday, right alongside my wife. Conversley, she comes to Mass with me on Saturdays. You’d think I’d feel like a grizzly bear invited to a tea party, but honestly, it’s surprisingly comfortable.
I’m a Catholic guy through and through. The incense, the quiet dignity, the sense of continuity stretching back through the centuries, that’s all home for me. But when I step into an LDS service, I can’t help but grin a bit. There’s something genuinely appealing about the way they do community, like everyone’s decided that being neighborly isn’t just a nice idea, it’s the main course. The handshakes, the head nods, the “how’s your family doing?” stuff might be simple, but it’s solid gold in a world that’s often too busy glaring down at smartphones to notice anyone else.
I’ve told my wife that if she ever stopped going, I’d be kind of bummed out. Not because I’m looking to swap creeds again, but because their Sunday scene has a special little pocket in my heart. I’ve developed a taste for their brand of fellowship, and it’d feel like losing a well-stocked pantry of kindness and baked goods. Again, I’m Catholic to my core and won’t be switching jerseys again, but I’ve still got some lingering LDS in my bloodstream. I’m grateful for that. It’s made me better at being Christian, more aware of how faith can build bridges and not just erect barricades. It’s nice to see someone else out there nudging believers to up their game and be better at living the ideals they claim.
This is a terrible idea and your wife is associating with heretics. You need to be a man and correct this asap. I had the same issue, as my wife was a JW. Her choices were, come with me to church or prove my position incorrect and I'll be a JW . She could not prove me wrong no matter how hard she tried and because of that I told her there is absolutely no reason for me to allow her to continue as a JW as it only leads to damnation. So her choices were then to come to church or get out of my house, as I cannot allow heretics in my home. Things have been amazing ever since I put my foot down and she is now attending church with me regularly.
@@a.ihistory5879 Wow. That’s a wonderfully subtle approach to marital and spiritual harmony, kind of like using a wrecking ball to hang a picture frame. Let me get this straight: The best way to nurture a loving, spiritually vibrant marriage is by issuing an ultimatum more fitting for a Saturday morning cartoon supervillain than, say, an actual human being? Because nothing screams “Christ-like love” quite like “my way or get out.” It’s like the religious equivalent of holding a hostage negotiation with your spouse’s soul, and trust me, that’s not a selling point for your personal brand of faith.
Honestly, if you’re going for high-quality, lasting spiritual unity, basing it on an intellectual victory lap and brute-force threats is about as stable as a Jenga tower in an earthquake. Sure, you can probably bully someone into a pew, but the second you turn your back, resentment will be growing like a bad mold stain behind the drywall. Faith isn’t a cage you lock someone in, it’s an invitation to a banquet, a common table. Your approach? More like chained rations in a basement. Fun times.
Anyway, as for me, I’m in no rush to follow the advice of someone who treats the faith of their spouse like a puzzle to be “solved” and a home like a cheap motel you can just kick someone out of. I’m sure it “worked” for you (in the sense that authoritarian measures do tend to enforce compliance) but I’ll stick with something more closely resembling love, understanding, actual human decency, and allow God to draw her in His time, thanks. Have a nice day.
@@a.ihistory5879 Wow. That’s a wonderfully subtle approach to marital and spiritual harmony, kind of like using a wrecking ball to hang a picture frame. Let me get this straight: The best way to nurture a loving, spiritually vibrant marriage is by issuing an ultimatum more fitting for a Saturday morning cartoon supervillain than, say, an actual human being? Because nothing screams “Christ-like love” quite like “my way or get out.” It’s like the religious equivalent of holding a hostage negotiation with your spouse’s soul, and trust me, that’s not a selling point for your personal brand of faith.
@@a.ihistory5879 Honestly, if you’re going for high-quality, lasting spiritual unity, basing it on an intellectual victory lap and brute-force threats is about as stable as a Jenga tower in an earthquake. Sure, you can probably bully someone into a pew, but the second you turn your back, resentment will be growing like a bad mold stain behind the drywall. Faith isn’t a cage you lock someone in, it’s an invitation to a banquet, a common table. Your approach? More like chained rations in a basement. Fun times.
@@a.ihistory5879 Anyway, as for me, I’m in no rush to follow the advice of someone who treats the faith of their spouse like a puzzle to be “solved” and a home like a cheap motel you can just kick someone out of. I’m sure it “worked” for you (in the sense that authoritarian measures do tend to enforce compliance) but I’ll stick with something more closely resembling love, understanding, actual human decency, and allow God to work in His own time, thanks. Have a nice day.
"Cats and dogs? I like dinosaurs"
Bro I can guarantee one of the missionaries wrote that down in their notes of quotes
As a returned missionary. Yes, they definitely wrote it down. I've got like at least 30 funny quotes from my mission.
I'm an atheist ex-mormon (left in adulthood, did a mission and all the temple stuff), and you've very nicely captured the diverse experiences you can have in the Mormon church.
LDS members don't have a choice in which congregation they attend, it's geographically assigned, so it can create a lot of diversity in certain congregations. And that geographical region, along with ward leadership, largely dictates the tone of a ward. And since young single adult wards pull from a larger region than a typical ward, it's normal to see more diversity there.
There were many things I loved about the LDS church, and the one I miss now is my built-in community. But ultimately I couldn't stay in an organization that claims things about its foundation that I came to believe are not true.
Anyway, love your content. It's helped me process my thoughts and feelings during my experience leaving the faith.
I’m also an atheist but never went to the trouble of having my name removed. My wife is still a true believer and so I still attend occasionally for the sense of community. I go hiking with my bishop sometimes. He says I’m the most active atheist in the ward. I know there is plenty of batshit crazy stuff in LDS theology and history but that’s true of any religion from the outside looking in. It’s nice to hear from someone occasionally that also appreciates some of the positives despite the quirky parts of the origin story.
@johnlaraway3008 totally understand where you're coming from. We're happy to have you with us🙂
Active LDS here... loved this video, sorry you had a bad experience the first go around in a ward, when I was a full time missionary fast and testimony meetings where always scary for us because we where always afraid of what people would say lol, and people say all sorts of things lol. Thank you for your honesty, this was well said all around watched the whole thing good job!
That's the truth🙂! Good on him for giving it another chance
Going from "I do not know why the Lord has let me live this long" to "Nemo, if you're watching this, you're my hero please be my friend" so fast it made my head roll haha
If you’re looking for some deep doctrine conversations from mormon perspectives, some good TH-cam channels are Saints Unscripted, Thoughtful Faith, or Keystone. Keystones prolly the best imo.
Some fast Sundays are pretty bad, yeah. But sometimes they are the most powerful meetings. It's very hot or miss
Agreed. There is always the same people. But then something real happens and you're like... "oh yeah, God is Gathering Israel"
The fact that you know what doctrine and covenants are in the pearl of great price means that you know more about Mormons Than most people who are not Mormons. I am in the same boat. I have never been Mormon and have acquired a stupid amount of Mormon knowledge.
Same here!
As a believer, I'm genuinely curious what is interesting to you? I find it fascinating, but it's interesting to me when people who don't believe the claims study it.
@IJN-33 the lore is good. Kind of like how some people get really into lord of the rings.
@@DenNinjaKlung I can see that. It's pretty fascinating as a story.
As an LDS person, at least one possible read on the not leading with the stuff that is 'interesting' is that there often isn't much to say about it. So, for a Latter-day Saint audience, really delving into the meaning just won't go anywhere.
Like, in your example with the Latter-day Saint belief in a Heavenly Mother, the speaker you listened to probably said nearly all there is to say about Heavenly Mother. Latter-day Saints believe in Her, but know very little about exactly what Her role is or how she functions in a grand design. The official doctrine on the subject is that She exists, and basically no more than that. So, to lead with that is kind of missing the point of it all. While it is boring, the main 'thing' that the missionaries want people to experience is the Come-to-Jesus moments. When the periphery is important, I think most missionaries will go all in on it (I was that way serving a mission), but there's just no reason to go crazy on it when that person doesn't care and hasn't understood the core, important message first.
And, the core, important message is the one most likely to actually help the most people. If someone needs a healing experience with a church community, what is going to help is them learning the basics and going to church, not learning about the intricacies of Celestial Marriage and its consequences. Certainly not always the case, but a possibility.
Indeed. Offer a soul the bread of understanding before serving a banquet of mysteries.
Clearly that person wasn't a true Christian.
It's OK though, as their church says that about you guys.
Actually they ALL do that!
I'm more interested in what's true.
I realize no churchy person cares for that.
I enjoyed this review as an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Thanks for your openness and thoughtfulness.
I think a big part of the whole "not getting into the deep stuff" tends to be more about the whole milk before meat thing. It often is hard for people to grasp deep things when there is no foundation, if that makes sense. For example the whole man becoming God thing. To understand that, you have to understand the concepts of eternal progression, which means you need to understand our purpose or potential, which would mean understanding the nature of God and the soul, which leads into the plan of salvation, that goes into one thing then the next..... And since that isn't the main focus because it doesn't, in the long run, make a difference to salvation, it becomes a side topic. Missionaries are there to teach the basic principles of salvation, Faith in Christ, Repentance, Baptism, etc. On the plus side there are plenty of sources such as 'talks' on the cool deep stuff.
Just make sure that if you are getting the "Anti" perspective side of things, give the "For" side a chance to rebut or explain.
Enjoyed the video. 👍
Generally, the meat is avoided in depth. What used to served as meat is low largely hypotheticals and "we don't actually know much about that."
No dude, singles ward was the best then you get married, go to a normal ward and you're like hey where did all the fun go.
I guess we gotta have kids to have fun.
Glad you are having a good time. I recommend you talk to Jacob Hansen over at thoughtful faith. Might actually be a really interesting video. And I bet he would be willing to talk about anything with you. Especially theology, in a nonjudgmental way.
I was with you until the nonjudgmental part...Jacob Hansen is anything but that
Jacob Hansen comes across and a real prick!!
Ah yes… early 20s, when we know everything and need to prove it. I had a similar experience… except I was the one on the losing end of the argument. I left religion shortly after. Back to the topic at hand, the LDS Church down the road from me, have the nicest people I’ve ever interacted with. The missionaries were very kind and even gave me tickets to take my kid out to the carnival after my wife left. Ironically, the carnival was in the parking lot of a Catholic Church.
There are a few things about LDS theology that I love:
1) God did not prepare a hell (eternal punishment) for His children.
2) Latter-day Saints do not believe in a closed canon. It makes sense that God is not limited to only the Bible; His knowledge and wisdom are greater than that. That's why Latter-day Saints are open to receiving more scripture and revelation.
3) LDS theology emphasizes not only salvation but also progression. This means God put us on earth not only to be saved but also to progress. I think this reflects a more merciful plan from God for His children.
1) Well... not for roughly two-thirds of his children. The remaining third (however many billions those are) do receive eternal torment. Perhaps not a "prepared hell", but certainly suffering.
2) True.
3) True... according to what I learned and according to what is currently taught in the temple, but it feels like the potential to achieve godhood has been downplayed a lot recently.
I'm so glad you got to visit a YSA! I'm not really relgious but I still go to my local young adult ward since it's so much fun to hang out.
I'm more interested if it's true.
The 'fun' would stop as soon as I heard them saying obvious nonsense.
Replying to Kim, it looks like you are looking for a reason to not have fun 😅
@@TheNinjapancake14 no, I'm looking for a reason to 'hang out' at these places.
I remain open to a good reason, it's just that nobody has supplied any. (Lots of fallacies though).
@@kimsland999 have you read the book? It changed my life!!!
@@clearstonewindows but there is no evidence or reason of supernatural anything!
Maybe it exists? Maybe it's TRUE? Wow that would be good.
But atheists WITHHOLD belief, not guess!
Atheists say: we don't believe your claim, nor Islam's claim, nor anyone's supernatural claim.
Mind you I hope it's true. Oh my I'd love that.
But we withold belief as it's an unsubstantiated claim, just like Zues!
25:00 It kind of has actually. Like you have 2 forms of Arabic in every Arabic speaking country. You have fusha, which is tied to the language of the Qur'an, and then you have the local forms of Arabic which have undergone their own evolutionary process.
As born and raised Mormon now atheist. You captured exactly the best part of the “Mormon experience” I personally have so many good memories hanging around the church with my friends. For me it was a physically safe and fun place to be. Pretty much EVERYTHING else is bad.
Left the lds church for 8 years, started attending my ysa ward a few months ago. It’s pretty chill
This was the first video I watched from this channel and it was so interesting! I've noticed that a lot of atheist channels ironically have a hard time just "shooting the breeze" with different ideas, and are a bit too focused on proving things right and wrong. Nothing wrong with that approach, but I find it dull to listen to people who are just criticizing religion to validate themselves. I feel like this video was refreshing to watch because your approach is driven by genuine curiosity. I like that you share your opinions and criticisms in a fair way that acknowledges nuance. I learned something new!
23:00 the LDS church is not trying to send you "back" to anytime, it is centering you on the present because that is all that exits.
Finally another awesome video. Just saw musical 'The Book of Mormon' for the first time, so it's the perfect timing
the mormon church is great for community and learning the gospel. Just don't SIN.. or don't tell the bishops your sins. this is the worst part of the LDS church. It never helps the sinner it only shames guilts and puts Fear into your heart. The leaders are all about disciplining the sinner instead of helping them. They don't understand Gods Grace and mercy. its all OBEDIENCE!!!
@@99blackbirdstoo late I already told them my sins and received great relief. Some bishops are further in there understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ then others. Obedience does play an important role and is how we gain knowledge, but we also have temperance, mercy, and love.
@04:43 "American Gnosticism... the perfect sales pitch". That, right there, is the kind of thing that keeps me coming back to your channel. Another great video, well done.
Latter Day Saint here. You're welcome any time.
I truly appreciate your videos you have no idea, you deserve more views and more followers! even as a Christian, like you, I am very curious about other people's beliefs and how they practice them. As someone who doesn't live in the US, it is super interesting to see this large range of Christianity there and I like how you explore them and talk about them! Thanks again for your amazing content
Another banger of a video, my man.
In your video about your experience with the bipolar gentleman, your phrase, "I guess I'm just mad at people who don't wrestle," really resonated with me, and I have incorporated the term wrestle into my own spiritual journey. And this is a prime example of the wrestling you do that inspires me-- go back to a place you originally had a negative experience and dig deeper to find a glimmer of good. There is a duality in most things I've found, especially to Agnostics like myself who continue to wrestle.
I love your ACA videos, but for your next discussion video, I had a suggestion. If the subject intrigues you enough, I'd love to hear your opinion on your perspective on the difference between Agnostics and Athiests. To my ear, your openness and intrigue with religion strikes me as similar to my Agnostic worldview, but I'd love to hear more about your apparent confidence and firm foundation when declaring yourself an Athiest.
Just a thought; take it or leave it. Keep up the great work, Jared. 🫡
Your personality would fit in very well with most LDS wards. Most of them are weird.
The history of the mormon church in America is facinating!
This is a Good video and I think more people should see this as they are interested. keep up the good work.
Also, in my area, we don't call investigators as investigators, we call them friends. So... hey there, friend.
Part of the reason for YSA is to meet Mr/Mrs Right, but it's also gives attendees opportunities to have responsibilities running a congregation (with the exception of bishop).
Churches are built with more function over form in mind, and purposefully doesn't have symbolism (with exception of the sacrament) to help attendees focus on the moment. Temples, on the other hand, are brimming with symbolism, because that's how we learn and study the mysteries.
Not all missionaries aren't theology experts, unless they're extremely nerdy. They're yoooung young adults, and their job isn't to teach everything, but give a general idea of the dogma. Think of them as encyclopedia salesmen. They're not going to know everything in the books, but they know enough to entice you to buy and read them yourself. Also, missionaries are generally discouraged by mission leaders to Bible bash. So being verbally aggressive or assertive will shut them down (and even cry).
My experience with the Church of Jesus Christ is overall positive. We have the largest heaven, and the smallest hell. Individuals who never had the chance or willingness to learn will in the after life, and can progress forward. Heaven isn't a big cloud where we play lyres forever, but learn the laws of nature and become creators ourselves. There were definitely people in the church (even in authoritative callings) who rub me the wrong way, but that's on them and my relationship to them, and not on the church's doctrine.
A minor point: Missionaries aren't apologists. They're more like tour guides. They teach the gospel at a simple level. They don't engage in theological debates or arguments
More like salesmen- showing the bells and whistles while avoiding the rust and failing transmission.
Well-meaning salesmen, mind you.
@@Coastieblee Mmm. Kind of. They don't benefit like a salesperson does though
I would encourage you to look for a temple open house...during those free events, you can go inside to do tours. They have a much different feel than the typical meetinghouses. They happen usually only before the temple opens for use, but sometimes after renovations they have a new open house.
I’m glad you found yourself at a Young Adult ward. I’m in one now, and it’s so much more lively and exciting than any of the other wards I have been a part of. Also, I appreciate your honest insights.
They're so much fun!
I’ve been a part of many many different wards all over the world. Yes, sadly the church buildings are super boring but the people are all pretty genuine. I definitely don’t go to church for the entertainment. Glad you got to see a different side of the Mormon church. Also, there aren’t any unsavory things in the temples lol.
I’ve been to LDS meetings and always enjoyed them. I enjoy the LDS so much that I want to visit Utah sometime soon.
It's not bad here! Downtown is pretty nice during Christmas. Only thing to watch out for is the inversion that tends to sit until we get a front to sweep it away.
There are members when you live.
It was interesting for you to go to a different Ward and learn about new types of Mormon members, but it was interesting for me to hear your story as a missionary, knowing that you're now atheist. Have you watched Alyssa Grenfell's videos?! You should, and then you two should interview each other! I would love to watch that.
thanks for the second chance
Man I hope you get to talk at some point with Alex O'Connor, your approach to atheism is quite interesting, I'm almost tempted to get back to church! 😂
Until they pray which causes you to burst out laughing. Agreed.
Alex is a great Atheist. Captain Come back to church!!!
@05:50 A belated happy birthday to you, sir.
Hey I’m LDS, (church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) glad you liked it, it’s the church of the latter days or the last days, that’s why it’s called of the latter days, because it’s the true church of the latter days, this is a cool idea for a channel
I remember that in 1985.
My parents said the first heard about it in 1950.
What reasoning do they provide? None. Just a very awkward (generally sexist) outdated belief.
It's a dangerous cult with a few stolen Masonic handshakes, verifiably false historical claims and a lot of immorality, misogyny, and sexual deviance and polygamy from Joseph Smith and the other scammers.
0:46 - funny you should ask. Yeah. I think most of us (Catholics, Coptics, Orthodox, mainline Protestant, vaguely orthodox nondenom prot, etc) would call Mormon Christ a different Christ
I think this is fair. We would like to be called Christians, But we're not fans of any of the creeds. And Yes the Christ we believe in Still has a body and sits next to his Father, who also has a body. And that the purpose of life is to grow to become like them. That's right I said them.
I just became aware of your channel. Having been born and raised LDS before leaving the faith and going on my own journey beginning about a year and a half ago, I found this really enjoyable. It's always fun to see someone experience something that was so normal and formative for me experiencing it for the first time and give an honest reaction.
I'm glad you got to have a more positive experience than your initial fast and testimony meetings that you alluded to before. Those meetings, while they can be useful for some members, honestly don't represent the best of LDS worship meetings, in my opinion.
I'll be looking forward to more content from your channel going forward. Best wishes on your journey.
LDS convert here. My experience was quite similar to your own! Mormonism is cool and Mormons have a lot of heart.
Sold your soul to a cult cuz the people were nice. Wow
@georgerafa5041 are you okay? You seem upset
@@kp6553 he seems upset. I hope he's okay too
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints got me. I was an atheist in college attending the LDS church. Eventually I ended up in a baptismal font…then my wife…now my family…and I am loving it…we are loving it.
The book of Mormon changed my life!!!
You’re welcome anytime….
Back when I was a curious young atheist, I talked to the Mormons for a bit and went to one of their services. But I was in my early 30s so they invited me to the old people service and not the young adult service. Maybe if they invited me to hang out with the hot aspiring Mormon mommies I would have came back a second time. As was, it was a very boring service that reminded me of my Jehovah's Witness background. And it wasn't so nice to know that at 30 years old, I was already seen as expired lettuce
@ChamomileTV they're not going to give you their women, it's a bait and switch, guy. You have to liberate them.
This made me laugh, thank you for sharing
Last Mother’s Day a man gave a talk on Heavenly Mother in my former Ward(I moved to a different state), I love talks that go into deep subjects sometimes. The reason why we may shy away from the interesting stuff is because in the New Testament, Paul advises “Milk before Meat”, and we’ve interpreted that as to mean we must primarily focus on the simple stuff first, especially for new people, and often times that gets to the more interesting things being forgotten. I’m kind of a nerd in Church theology and history so I like talking about that stuff.
The catch is that you can spend decades in the Church and never get any “meat” at all.
What’s really interesting is visiting other Book of Mormon believing churches like the Bickertonites. They are the lds charismatic cousins and I love them
Loved this video
I love how respectable you are to all the churches you visit
I spent about 2 1/2 years questioning and considering leaving the church. I eventually decided to stay because I found nothing better. I choose to believe even if I don't know for sure like some people say.
Except beliefs aren't choices of course. I think you mean you choose the personal feelings of extreme backward beliefs.
I prefer the truth.
@kimsland999 If you say so. Bad form to tell me what I meant though. The other option is I studied, considered, and made a choice... It's possible for someone to disagree with you and still have good rationale.
@@IJN-33 on your 2nd irrelevant point, ofcourse people of good (or bad) standing can agree/disagree with any personal view.
Back to topic.
If belief was a choice you could believe in a totally different contradictory religion for a day, just to see how they feel. Good test to do.
What's that? You won't?
Oh that's because belief is not a choice.
Beliefs form from good or bad reasoning.
To remove any (clearly false) belief, you merely need to question why it's true?
So far no theist has come up with an answer to that.
Try is there even a tiny bit of truth in it?
Still so far no one has ever provided that.
Mind you, a lot of personal feelings come out!
@kimsland999 Well this has been fun. As much as I enjoy ad hominem attacks my very relevant 2nd point is where I'll end. Good luck to you.
@@IJN-33 well thanks for the emotional fun part, however you probably should consider reason on any theistic belief.
Hint: there isn't any reason to believe (except poor emotions and instruction of course).
I do debate theists and am aware of all their fallacies. Ad-Hominen generally being their ridiculous judgement at the end. But I know you won't do that right?
Dust balls from the theist.
As an ex-LDS atheist who also did spend 2 years on a mission, I completely understand where you're coming from of having both good and bad experiences in LDS churches. I would say that was my experience as well. I will definitely say that my years in the young single adult wards were - overall - the best years I spent there. (I wasn't an atheist at that point.) But if you're an actual member, then once you get married, you're not longer allowed to attend young single adult wards. I definitely agree with your assessment that the "deep doctrine" (as they call it) can be some of the more interesting things. But if you dive deep enough into the cosmic stuff, you realize there's a lot of cosmic stuff sounds - well - made up. One example, when Joseph Smith was asked what the ancient language created by God called the sun, he literally said - I shit you not - Shinehah. Yeah. It's almost comical.
I love these longer form videos!
Glad your video came across my feed. I served a mission in Russia, it was an amazing experience and I loved every minute of it. Glad you have genuine curiosity. The Book of Mormon is Another Testament of Jesus Christ, read it with an open heart. There is a living prophet living today.
Love that you are celebrating a small win! God bless!
Yeah. One of the leaders (Patrick Kearon) recently gave a talk entitled, "Welcome to the Church of Joy," and I believe that in general we are a joyful people. That being said, if you want to see "The Church of Joy," sometimes open mic Sunday is not the best time.
Best talk
I'm a Catholic, and I once heard a Catholic convert from mormonism say on a podcast that the Catholic and lds churches have alot of structural similarities. Catholic pope lds president, diocese and stake. I kinda view this as why the lds church has been so successful compared to other groups like them, ie jws.
Actually JW's have a similar structure.
@@MouseQuesoYes all three have men as your mediator to God
I think the younger wards are for singles. Once they get married I think they move to the other church.
Yep. Singles ward vs family ward. It's the same building, they just show up for church at different times.
They also have midsingles wards for those who didn't quite make the cut when they were younger. Ngl, those feel a bit more depressing.
@@unicorntamer2207 In the Orem/Provo, Utah area, some of them meet in their own buildings.
I’m curious about the adult single groups 🤭
@@TheNinjapancake14 The idea is that you need to marry someone within the faith. LDS doctrine states that marriages in the temple are eternal, and you can only get into the temple if you're a temple worthy church member. So, to make it easier, if you are over the age of 18 you go to church with all the young single adult church members in your town and hopefully you fall in love and get to go to the family ward together.
There's also lots of activities and get-togethers planned throughout the week. My ward went bowling together, we did karaoke, hiking, lots of fun hanging out as a group. The bishop of our ward also let us bring food to his house, and we had a planned food fight in his backyard. We played basketball, dodge ball, and a made-up game called "chair soccer" with folding chairs (it was slightly dangerous) all in the church gym, aka the cultural hall. People get creative and have a lot of fun.
But as soon as you get married, you are expected to go to the family ward and start trying to have kids asap and have as many kids as possible. There's theology reasons for having big families. And that's why Mormons have the stereotype of having lots of kids.
The basketball gym we call the “Cultural Hall”
Why do people join a religion?
Humans crave certainty and security which religion provides the illusion of.
If only that were true, we would expect religions to be established later after civilizations and cities came about.
But instead we see the opposite. Religions happened before people started gathering in large cities. It seems to predate civilization. This would indicate people sought each other out because they already had shared beliefs, potentially being a catalyst for the founding of cities.
There is a part of the human experience that isn’t explainable apart from religion/the supernatural. Many strange things happen in this world. I myself and others I know have seen them. Ghosts, shadow people, and the like are quite real.
"At least Im not at a kingdom hall" needs to be a T-shirt.
This seems like a really interesting channel.
I found your perspective on the "perceived time" of the various religions very interesting. Do you feel an anachronistic atmosphere is necessary for a religious service? What benefits (or drawbacks) do you believe exist in having an anachronistic atmosphere?
You made Stacey cry! How dare you?!
Nice video, objective but in the same time, personal.
Keep it up!
Go to Church!
Love this!
"Fishers of Men" by Chris Capel is such a brutal film.
I also highly recommend it, but don't go in without steeling yourself. Perhaps it hits a bit harder for me since I was once a mormon missionary, but it is powerful regardless.
yeah, going on a fast and testimony meeting like in your last video is SUCH a gamble. It can be really good or reallly bad. In general, because we don't have paid clergy or professional speakers, church is more about connecting with God and the community and giving everyone a chance to testify than it is about enjoying yourself per se, although hopefully you do enjoy yourself.
I always feel bad for the priests in these churches you visit, they must think they almost had you every time.
Awesome video. Love your humor and no holds barred opinions.
I loved my time in YSA ward. Not having the responsibility that I have now as mom, wife, business owner, and just being able to geek out about spirituality is awesome.
It's funny though cause with all the responsibility and work of life, its not the super fun random deep dive stuff that's getting me through (but don't get me wrong it is soooooo much fun). It is the super simple stuff that's giving me strength. The practical benefits for proper prayer, scripture study, and serving your neighbor are more important so they deserve more time.
100% would talk for hours about Heavenly Mother and temples and linguistic symbolism in the Book of Mormon though. That is totally my idea a good time.
@15:00🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 lol, I'm a member and the Ghost of BY cracked me up.
You are enjoyingly Honest! 😊❤
I became a Mormon when I was 18. Personally best decision of my life, although I admit it is absolutely not for everyone. Where you live makes a massive difference too. I absolutely loved the congregation I was baptized in. Moved a few times and now I'm in one that is pretty meh...thankfully I have a solid 15 years previous experiences to feed off of. Until one day I will move again...
11:50 u can buy the huge quad scripture book for 45$ on the chrch shop. my mom got me one for easter
I’m finishing a college class on ancient Christian literature. We’ve learned a bit about Gnosticism and a few other ideas. It’s hard to say whether all of the different beliefs are the result of people just believing things because they make sense with no regard for actual truth, or if it’s all more akin to various reflections on a distorted lake.
7:30 you are kinda joking here, but that is absolutely the strategy the LDS church uses to retain people, and that is triple-y true for members in Utah where the culture is the same as the church culture. After leaving the church a few years ago, I wonder a lot why people are still in when the issues are so obvious to me now. I have to remind myself that, for most people, it is easier to believe and stay where they are familiar than question and venture into the unknown.
Ok, Nemo the Mormon is amazing. That’s about the only thing I have positive to say about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
The deeper you dive the more you’d have to critique.
Like what?
@@Hi-jw7oq It's a deep rabbit hole, but off the top of my head:
Polygamy ; treatment of LGBTQ+; denying the priesthood to black members until 1980ish; finances; truth claims from scripture and things leaders have said; temples (everything from how they bully small towns into getting to build whatever they want, despite building codes, by threat of lawsuit to the oaths members make and historically made in the temple; excommunication of people who criticize leaders (even when it's true); The Book of Mormon's historicity; Joseph Smith's origins as a conman; using their own law firm to cover up abuse cases; and on and on and on....
Yo Jared please check out an Ethiopian orthodox church man one of the most unique Christian denominations out there
Yeah as a missionary, we used to cringe when people would show up for a testimony meeting. People are supposed to testify of the truthfulness of the gospel, but it devolves into a super sad therapy session where people vent about their trials.
I think your second visit was much more normal. Family wards are good for families, but single people just don’t have a place in that framework. The women’s meetings are all about women’s roles in the family and men’s meetings are the same for them. Young single adult wards are necessary to keep people going, because church isn’t really edifying in a family ward if you’re on your own.
As an exmo atheist now, I didn’t really have a problem with church and I still probably follow most of the same rules, but the problem is that it’s just wrong. The doctrines are wrong, the Book of Mormon is a 19th century book of fiction and if I wanted to talk about a book for hours on end, I’d join a book club that doesn’t charge 10% of my income. But for the most part, if you’re a heteronormative, conservative leaning white person, Mormonism probably has good vibes for you.
Man, I just found your channel and loved your video. I'm LDS, and I would like to see you talking with Jacob Hansen from Thoughtful Faith. Invite him to one of your conversations.
That would be dope!
Jacob Hansen, just for clarity
@ I just changed it, thank you!!
That would be awesome to see
Ew, engage Jacob Hansen at your own peril, he's gross bigot that uses his religion to justify his disgraceful behavior.
You captured the YSA (Young Single Adult) Ward model perfectly...lol
Ziontology is both sad and unintentionally hilarious.
a mormon just believes! waiting for your film review of Heretic
lol as a member of the lds (Mormon) Church I love this!! 😂 And yes, family wards can be rough for sure
also for your questions, that i know you got, I'm a service missionary rn and an elder's quorum instructor and I'll answer literally any questions you have to the best of my ability. I mean, what a lot of people think is top secret, is just in our doctrine or online. they can look up all this stuff anyway. And as far as I'm concerned, if you can think of the question, you're ready to hear the answer. lmk.
Went to one of these when I was a military college cadet - they were obviously thirst-trapping us with buxom beauties LOL
Nah, it's just a consequence of being beautiful people.
Just FYI, anything and everything you'd like to study about our religion is in the Gospel Library app (you probably already have it). It's free, and there are topics like Heavenly Mother (although not a ton because we don't know a ton), Foreordination, The Millennium, etc.
Missionaries avoid bringing people to fast and testimony meetings for the first time because they're so improvised; basically, anything could happen. Most wards have a lot of old people, children, and families anyway. I think it's good you went to the YSA ward. The differences in wards are really just the people who attend them.
You should visit an FSSP or ICKSP church. These are Catholic Churches within certain fraternities with special permission to celebrate the mass in the pre-Vatican 2 form, the traditional latin mass.
I’m Christian, (Church of Christ, kinda like Baptist) but a lot of my friends are LDS, so this was cool to see. I’ve gone to a few of their services, and YSA is cool but it’s definitely dominated by the younger folk (18-22).
At the Church of Christ that I grew up in, it was very common to hear “thee’s” and “thou’s” and what not in prayers. We weren’t one of the “KJV only” congregations, but the majority of the congregation were old and that’s the translation most people used. It always kinda seemed weird to me that the KJV language would only pop up during prayers.
It really is a different experience in a single word. It’s probably because the fun gays are still hopeful about life. I’m not mad about you having a fun time as exmo
Don't feel guilty making a mormon missionary cry as long as you are honest. It is just that she was not prepared to handle this difficult conversation, trust me. She was young and was learning about real life. ;)
Talking about the Bible is my favorite thing too! After my evangelical deconstruction I got wrapped up in the academic study of the Bible, which can get quite polemic. Going tit for tat about theology to earn salvation point drains all the fun from talking about the Bible. I wonder what the LDS church experience would look like of they lead with the esoteric and gnostic doctrines. I'm talking about a service that transports you back to Biblical times, 1823!?
I grew up Mormon. Now I'm agnostic. I'm really interested in academic study of religion now.
I enjoy theology too, but I realize it's mostly feelings and instruction.
Or in this case magic underwear Lol.
@13:38 the person playing the organ had a lot more of my attention than any of the bishopric ever did growing up 😅
More mormons please !
i love you ❤