Destiny VS. Dr Atassi - Ultimate Israel Debate
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Not enough props is being given to Alex for moderating this debate. I'm a Destiny fan and know Alex has strong opposing opinons. He did a really good job of focusing on the debate and forcing both parties to answer questions.
Thanks man!
@@PlayingWithFireChannel I thought moderation was weak at times. Karim evaded straight answers over and over and attached unrelated talking points. Moderation should have interrupted more to steer him back to the topic at hand.
@@darklucas0721 agreed! Is a fair moderator
To be fair.. That's the only possible way to make a pro palestinian argument @@knorze1777
History books in ME: Everything bad is the west’s fault.
The end
And the Jews of course.
@@melm295 There’s def truth to it
The copium though.
What are you talking about bro?
Books in western society have said the west are the good guys.
And still do.
They are mostly lies.
The west has a more unethical and immoral practice over the last few hundred years.
Yeah if u think about it
Its pretty true
@@melm295
That’s because it’s try bro
Copium
He lost for sure, but one thing I did appreciate from Dr. Karim despite his clear biases (which is understandable), he at least acknowledged the rapes and civilian targeting and breaking of international law on 10/7, something Hasan still has not done
It’s funny when a Muslim talk on colonialism when Muslims colonized the entire Middle East
This is such a lazy take. Muslims didn’t “colonize” the Middle East-it’s literally their historical homeland. Arabs and other Muslim groups have lived in the region for centuries, long before Islam even existed. Expansion under Islamic empires wasn’t “colonialism” in the sense of exploiting foreign lands and displacing native populations, like European or settler colonialism.
And even if you’re trying to compare Islamic conquests to modern colonialism, it’s a false equivalency. The context, goals, and outcomes were completely different. You’re just deflecting from Israel’s settler colonialism because you can’t defend it on its own merits. Try harder.
@@Mandems973😂😂😂 as long as they are the same color and religion it aint colonialism
@@Mandems973 The assertion that Islamic expansion 'wasn’t colonialism' because the 'context, goals, and outcomes were completely different' is an insane attempt to whitewash history. Islamic conquests may not have mirrored European colonialism in its modern industrialized form, they absolutely involved exploitation of conquered lands and populations. Agricultural systems, trade routes, and resources of subjugated regions were commandeered for the benefit of ruling elites. The Andalusian caliphates extracted wealth from the Iberian Peninsula, and the Ottoman Empire imposed systems like the devshirme, where Christian boys were forcibly taken, converted, and pressed into military or administrative service. How is that not exploitation?
Moreover, Islamic conquests often displaced native populations, either through forced conversion, massacres, or assimilation. Take the example of North Africa, where Berber identity was nearly subsumed under Arab-Islamic culture. In Egypt, Coptic Christians dwindled from being the majority to a marginalized minority under Islamic rule. These historical realities starkly contrast with your sanitized narrative. If you’re going to argue about history, bring evidence and consistency, not empty rhetorical deflections. Otherwise, it’s you who needs to 'try harder.'"
The crusades are described as series of religious wars to stop the expansion of Muslim states, and to reclaim the Christian holy land in the Middle East and to recapture territories that had formally been Christian, from the Muslims. So it’s not a stretch, and OP is in fact is correct. Cope and seethe
@@Mandems973 😂 The desperation in your comments is hilarious.
Karim lost so fucking hard, didn't give a single argument
Colonial project. He’s describing the entire Islamic history and religion
That post explains the low IQ results in Israel, if u're Israeli 🤦
@@Peace216 good, back to Polandd 🇵🇱
@@MarkDenmark-nz2pz talking about Poland, actually idiots like you should go to Poland to visit some museums, not Auschwitz but regular museums about WW2, you would be surprise to learn that in the 30s the polish people were saying to the jew to go back to Palestine. Are you happy to be a an uneducated idiot ?
@@tupierorosa723The real low IQ is showing in your post since you’re accusing someone to be stupid because of his ethnicity. 😂
@@MarkDenmark-nz2pzSry, Jews are from Judea, that’s why they are called Jews. If you don’t know the facts you might as well don’t speak up since you’re making yourself a fool.
This guy has never found an Arab conspiracy he doesn’t think is 100 percent true. If you follow this line of thinking there will never be peace no matter how educated the person making the argument is.
@@Jedscorp good, back to Ukraine 🇺🇦
As a Jewish man, I wish you to listen to Destiny's last 3 minutes cause he is saying exactly what I had in my mind the whole 3 hours of Karim underlying talking.
בול 💯
They don’t care bro. We are on our own
@@bobby6427 And why is that? Why not just create positive change from the inside and watch as everyone unites to work together in this small world. Why participate in something so evil, then wonder why there's no allies?
@@captainmajed2078 Because of Destiny's point. Israelis know something that most Westerners are in denial about: When Religious Mslms say "lets live together peacefully with equal rights," they mean something completely different than what a westerner understands that to mean. They mean: "And once we have equal rights, and we form the majority, the next phase is implementing shariah law and dhimmi status for christians and jews." We are starting to see that phase in the UK.
@@captainmajed2078 Read the Quran and what they say about Jews and read what the fanatical Jews (who are no more than 15% of the Jews) think about every other religion and you will understand why there will never be peace in one small country for all these religions. If you want real peace in a country like this, it must be secular and that won't happen with these religions...
Pro-palis always argue in cherry-picked quotes. It’s so difficult to listen to.
Herzl said something 150 years ago durrrr.
I’ve got a few hundred if you’re interested.
@
What source did you get the charter from?
As long as we can read quotes from the Zionist military, political, academics over the last 50 years. They’re a lot more chilling.
If Palestinians were Americans, you’d be partying on October the 7th, for their freedom fighting rebellion against the terrorists.
FOH bro
No they dont thats zionists specialty
at 2:26:00 karim says "jews should elect a mizrahi leaders" to advance a peace process....
bro karim is so lost, literally 90% of the mizrahi knesset member are right and anti peace process.
he might have some knowledge on the conflict but man he have no idea on the current state of affair in the israeli politics... like really none.
Ben gvir is a Mizrahi jew from Iraq 😅
I don't think this guy knows shit lol
It's because guys like him genuinely think that the information about Israel that circulates in their (liberal) arab* and pro-Palestine bubbles are actually accurate and trustworthy enough to understand both the conflict and Israeli society. The problem is: it is not. The same is true on the other side of course, you won't get an accurate view of Palestinian society if you blindly construct your worldview on everything that comes out of ynet, mordechai kedar and so on.
*I'm saying arab because, even though worldviews travel very easily nowadays, there is something very specific in the way Israel is perceived amongst levantine and mashrek arabs and which isn't exactly the same as the way it is perceived, say, in Ireland, Pakistan or American college campuses.
This is hilarious, mizrahi people are usually waayyyy more right wing and even make fun of Ashkenazi people for "not knowing the enemy" etc
like or hate destiny, there was at least a 30% IQ points gap in his favor. I would love to see him vs. the epitome of Arab accountability deniers a.k.a Bassem and Mehdi
How did you come to the conclusion that Destiny had 30% more IQ points?
Huh?!? I saw the American guy just turn himself into a Molotov cocktail in every single situation.
He made the debate impossible to listen to. He simply spins himself out of control and speaks fast. He tries to pick at peoples statements mid way and so many straw man arguments.
I’ve listened to him before and I find him barely intelligible. I think the people on here thinking he’s smart are responding to a psychological tactic, express massive confidence! Convince people of this by being loud, assertive, alpha and obnoxious.
The other dude was so conciliatory that it made him weak but it’s clear he was more intelligent than deziree
Destiny proved his lack of arguments by making arguments that are lazy and with no evidence and lazy opinions completely ignoring the war crimes.
Destiny is so ignorant on this. He spews pure propaganda.
@@colbybrand5326 Want some cheese with your whine?
Dr Atassi , you need to be consistent bro, you remember the color of the shoes of Israeli soldier that shot that baby but when he asks you about Hamas using civilians as human shield and using infrastructure for military purposes that has tons of evidence and everybody acknowledge you say I don't know or I didn't see evidence or some BS answer
Why is israels existance still debated? Why is the british mandates immigration policy from 100 years ago being discussed in 2024? Its childish. Its a country, its over. Been 76 years. Its creation was moral and by a UN vote for people alreafy living in the land, and regardless, its irreversible. Before october the 7th I thought it was about israeli policy and how it affects palestinians. I was sympathetic. Now I see its 50 shades of hamas and about the legitimacy of israeli presence. I can understand now why IDF presence in the west bank is so necessary at the moment. I didnt know we were still living in 1948
True. A huge number of Palestinians have never moved forward at all from 1948, even though most of their parents weren’t even born then.
Pseudo states have feelings too
Jep, the Palestinians have been taken hostage by Hamas and still living as if ww2 never ended. Nothing to discuss when people refuse their defeat.
>Its creation was moral
no it wasn't lol
>by a UN vote
the UN had been in existence for maybe a year and had no authority to create a fucking state (it still doesn't lol)
>regardless, its irreversible
Irrelevant, you're just trying to hand wave the issue away because you know it's indefensible.
@@TheAshube9 States have obligations to upholstery human rights and international law. Israel has forfeited its right to exist. No genocidal state has a right to exist.
destiny went way to easy, this other guy was spitting lie after lie
Lier to the contrary 😂lier
It's incredible how Mr. Borrelli says it can't be genocide because Israel could erase everyone right away and wouldn't care about international perception but also Israel would never unalive aid workers or kids deliberately because it would be so damaging for their international image. Cluelessly confident while he farts up his gamer chair spouting contradiction after contradiction.
@@cros34at least learn how to spell. Liar.
He was (seemingly) willingly misrepresenting things destiny said or the host said - under the guise of "oh that's funny, I agree with that"
70% through and this is honestly going off the track.
Muslims & accountability are like water and oil.
It is actually impressive the whitewash that Karim has tried to do in this debate. My applause, sir, it requires some skills.
Just like Americans and destabilizing the Middle East. Oil and water. You can ask Trump if you disagree.
Only Zionists will cry over the generalization of some racist characteristics to all Jews, after which they will simply generalize characteristics to 2 billion Muslims.
Like the Nazi Zionist
I didn't think I would find anyone else who would say that. Preach.
@@dragonofdojima7630 Cuz he's full of shit lol
Destiny: Ehud Barak offered a proposal for peace at Camp David, and Arafat walked away without even counter-offering.
Karim: Yeah...but, Barak had said prior that he didnt believe an agreement would be reached, so there!
Karim, dude, how is that an argument?? Did Barak make an offer? Yes. Did Arafat accept or at least counter-offer? No. So of what relevance is the fact that Barak was not hopeful before the summit??
So...Nazi Zionist deceitful
So frustrating… always dancing around saying that no deal would even be acceptable.
Because both sides know that the other isn't going to agree to terms they find acceptable and that's just true regardless of which side you think is right or wrong. The only reason you'd show up is for the optics, it's a waste of time.
@@TheStatisticalPizza Ya but that doesnt explain why Israel is always the one putting forth an offer and the Pals are always the ones rejecting. The reason for it is that most Israelis are open to giving away the West Bank if it will result in genuine peace. But the Palestinians are not open to anything short of Israel's disappearance.
And the regards in these comment sections can't deny this, so they just ignore it
Can we just analyze Karim's claim regarding genocide? He's saying Israel is commiting genocide, but they know genocide doesnt look good, so that's why they're making an effort to kill as few civilians as possible.
Yeah that makes no sense.
Lmao, it's just one out of 100 contradictions in the pro Palestinian argument. They say the exact same about Israel not taking more land in 1948.
Destiny, by merely debating this topic, you give it, and your opponent's position, far more legitimacy than they deserve.
That’s how Muslim theocrats think. Stifle all debates and dissenting views. Terrible idea
@Peace216 Suppressing is not the natural alternative to amplifying. Your comment is a strawman.
There is no honest broker using the word genocide in relation to this conflict.
I love how the very first argument that Karim makes is a false interpretation which was debunked on live TV by the court's head.
His opening argument is the court's ruling, and that ben gurion was pro-genocide, and both are blatantly false and so easy to disprove.
the difference of arguments is brutal, Destiny doesn't even has to work for a win here. Dr. Karim keeps claiming what ifs or false land ownership.
"The israelis were buying the land."
"Yea but that would piss a lot of arabs off."
Well, maybe they shouldn't have sold the land, then.
How could you stop them selling the land? as soon as the turks lost control there was nothing to stop non palestinian landowners selling the land, which accounted for the majority of land acquisition iirc
@@artaihnandez4980 so it wasn't even their land, if you say non-palestinian land owners were the majority. why claim it then? what percentage of the land was sold by palestinians? even that land is not claimable, only on the off-chance that you might prove the sale was forced upon them
@CosminDuru I think prior to 1948 around 25% of the acquired land was purchased from Palestinian landowners.
I think part of the issue was that under ottoman rule a lot of Palestinians didn't register their land properly, for tax/avoid being drafted. I think this led to land being registered in one name when in fact there were multiple actual owners. I think this is where some of the false ownership claims might come from?
Obviously though if the land your village is in is purchased by a zionist investment fund, your village and the other 15 villages nearby are razed, you are probably not going to be very happy, and will feel like you've had your land stolen, even if technically the owner was some wealthy family in Syria.
Lmao alex says stick to the present day.
This "dr" immediately goes back to 1895
And failed to be really informed
@BestMan-bd4oq seems like every dr or professor destiny comes up against on this topic they get destroyed with the stuff destiny learned in one year
The present came to he because of the past so alex is wrong
@@dingpingus93in your delusional dreams destiny got cooked
@eventusvantos8586 like destiny said if you want to go back in the past the jews were driven from Jerusalem by the Romans 2000 years ago.
You are not looking to the future. You are looking to the past for a justification to remove the jews from the Levant. That's not how things work.
But keep thinking UN resolutions will do something. You are the one baying for more Palestinian blood. Your fearless leader sinwhar(rest in piss) said it himself that every dead Palestinian child is a win for palestine.
Golda Mayer said it best "we will only have peace when the arabs care more for their own children then they do to drive us from this land" or something to that effect.
Get real you pie in the sky child
The Israel Palestine debate is such an easy win for Israel. Supporting an Islamist state is indefensible. The October 7th terrorist attacks are indefensible. Decades of Hamas terrorism and Arab armies attacking Israel is indefensible. We all saw bloodied women being dragged into cars full of militants. The reason Israel loses the pr war is the losing side will always scream louder and harder. And which of the two sides is doing that?
😂😂😂
Correct.
Really?
Imagine a guy gave you 10 punch and you give 1 punch in return and the guy start screaming see how bad you are and you are the bad guy for doing that. Off course when the guy punches you 10 time its all well and good and justified and nobodys watching but when you give 1 punch in return then every camera is there to record and you are the bad guy.
And if you make the argument that isreal was not doing anything like that before octobor 7 and then you are a IDIOT who lives in different reality, If enough fake evidence is produced you will belive earth is Flat.
supporting an Islamist state is defensible.
being anti-Islam and anti-Israel is not mutually exclusive.
It’s so easy I agree to prove Zionism is the most evil criminal ideology in the world. Nd by the way Palestine ain’t Islamist. PLO is a secular organisation.
Does the existence of weapons storage or militant positions next to civilians justify attacking those targets despite the inevitable civilian casualties?
Um... if those targets pose a threat to your own civilians at home (which they do), then YES! Israel's #1 priority is to protect Israeli civilians - not the civilians of an enemy that has attacked her.
Israel literally has a military base next to a shopping center. Would you say they are 'hiding behind civilians'?
Why are jews so blood thirsty its almost scary.
Karim demands a greater Syrian empire covering all of the Levant. Pure imperialist.
Love that Destiny knows HIS $hit. Not a random Arab who jibber jabbers nonsense for an hour
Karim: using white phosphorus is completely illegal
Destiny: using white phosphorus is not completely illegal
Karim: I mean no but
White phosphorus IS illegal end of story
when someone tell u that dhimmi was not treated bad u know they bad faith , dhimmi in muslim countries not even allow to own shoes
what is this bs? who told you non-muslims cant walk in shoes on Muslim Lands?
false, ur uneducated, some dhimmis had political positions in govt bozo, read more
@@mugiwaraluffy4888 good, back to Polandd 🇵🇱
@@MarkDenmark-nz2pz it aint happening Ahmed. The sooner u accept it the better
@@TheAshube9 it will , sooner than expected.
I get the feeling Destiny is getting bored with the whole Israel debate, and honestly I think the majority of people are.. There will never be a resolve for this conflict, no matter the amount of discussions or debates.. It is now up to world leaders to sort it out, but the will seems to lack
The last thing I’m going to say regarding this ridiculous debate is doctor don’t quit your day job.
I think the only thing more painful for me than seeing that Destiny is wasting his time pulling teeth with another insane pro-Palestinian is seeing the dating coach guy he destroyed almost a year ago be the moderator
This Karim guy couldn’t be any more condescending
Wrong. He’s measured
If after the War of Independence the Arab countries simply decided to make peace with Israel and even give the Palestinians a state in the West Bank and Gaza which at the time was controlled by Jordanians and Egyptians no one would be talking about this conflict today
Dr. Karim: > Also Dr. Karim >
There's literally proof of Israelis using Palestinian children of human shields and literally no proof of the Palestinians doing this. Cool story though. You hear about the 40 beheaded babies? 😂🤡
Perfect
Is that why idf killed hind with no hamas in site? Is that why idf killed kitchen aid workers with no hamas in site? Is that why idf killed their own so called hostages with no hamas in site????
Destiny ripped this guy to shreds
it's still a genocide and Israel is in the wrong.
Destiny winning or losing the debate won't change that fact.
@@vegan-rising The bastardization of using powerful language are what keep this conflict going.
Again like Destiny said, as long as Palestinians leaders believe Israel is committing a genocide and that no matter how many terror attacks Hamas does it's okay because it's a resistance to colonial Europeans. That the rest of the world encourages they're resisting.
And as long as Israel keeps getting a go from the U.S. especially now Trump coming in, they will be told what they're doing is good and with Iran, Hezbollah, and other entities making sure to know they are enemies they will feel justified to keep expanding into Palestine.
Their needs to be an acknowledgement that there is war crimes on both sides, Hamas is not a resistance movement, Israel must back out and fund Palestine, and there must be a new leader for peace from Palestine and Israel where Palestine isn't making rockets from sugar and Israel gives back the West Bank.
@@vegan-rising by definition then all wars are genocides.
@@MiKey-cj2fo It's a genocide by The UN's definition but okay
@@vegan-rising A one-sided war is not a genocide. You haven't stated a fact. No matter how much you say that word, you can't will it into existence.
Palestinians routinely have committed horrible attacks against Israelis including rapes, murders, kidnappings, and suicide bombings, not only are these Palestinians never held accountable they are actually rewarded for their actions. For Israel to harshly punish Israeli soldiers for their own inappropriate actions would completely outrage the population of Israel. This should be obvious once one considers it and the lack of harsh punishments have Israeli soldiers becomes completely obvious.
@@craigfriedman4759 trust me , no body believes this . Enough 😆
@@MarkDenmark-nz2pz it is not funny, and it is true. Hamas broadcasted it. The harshest footage is hard to find out od respect for the victims but it happened. In real time, Hamas was proud of it and recorded it
@@TheAshube9 my friend, maybe yǔ was born yesterday or on 7 of Octo. but kling , displacing and kidnapping the Palst was routinely done before Humms was created in 1987. So playing the victim card is an old tactic and no body believes it anymore. Thank you .
@@TheAshube9 lie lie lie. Zinst tactic
@@TheAshube9 which is older the occupation or Hammus?
It has to be said, Israel indeed has probably the most extreme right government in its history, which is sad but its a reaction to the palestinian stance of "october the 7th from the river to the sea". Ben gvir has been convicted for support for t. 3rr0r!sm via rethoric, not for actions. He is indeed the most extreme minister in the historuñy of the country, yet he has not explicitly endorsed aggressions towards palest!n!an civillians. He cannot be compared to hamas
Ben Gvir's actions are not responses to anything. He is truly a horrible human being. And people with his mentality are the root cause of all wars and atrocities today and throughout history.
At this point, I believe it is should be an undeniable fact even among the vast majority of Israelis .
*by "rhetoric" I mean saying things like "Kahane was right". Kahane was a member of a proscribed t. 3rror organization which got outlawed in Israel, but the main message of the platform was to get the @. rabs out of the land. Ben Gvir currently claims he agrees with the principle, but supports fulfilling it via monetary incentives, and not v. !0l3nce.
And still even this extreme right government is not match the extreme Palestinian government.
I'm not even sure he is the most extreme minister we had😂
We had some waky fellas before, both on the right and the left.
😅😅
The large influx of Jews back to the area and the local rejectionist response predates the ideological underpinnings of the current state, it began when Russian Jews were exiled around the 1880s and started moving to the area as refugees. They were seen as russian influence in the region by the ottomans who were at war with Russia, despite the jews being exiled from Russia with no way of going back. By the time the first ideological emigrants arrived, there was already rejectionism and violence, begining the cycle being debated here.
Levantines sees everything as colonialism and condemns it. Such a low tier debate. The arabs did as much colonizing as jews did in that time. They are still colonizing Europe and America as we speak. He keeps trying to justify the Palestinian violence and condemning that of Israel. Just like Palestinians he refuses to accept his defeat. You can’t annex land that is already yours.
This take is embarrassing. Arabs colonizing Europe? Seriously? That’s not even worth unpacking because it’s just incoherent. And trying to equate Palestinian resistance to colonial oppression with Israel’s settler colonialism is such a weak argument. Palestinians are fighting for their right to exist on their own land. Israel, on the other hand, is the one annexing land, bulldozing homes, and enforcing apartheid policies-it’s the textbook definition of settler colonialism.
Also, “you can’t annex land that’s already yours”? That’s just delusional. Annexation by definition means taking land that isn’t yours under international law. If it was “already yours,” why would you need to annex it? This is just bad-faith deflection. Maybe brush up on some history and international law before throwing around nonsense like this.
arabs are flooding europe, the islamic take over never finish because in islam losing a war is forbidden its proof allah not real
Jews didn't cilinized anyones land we are from judea
@@Mandems973your What literally colonizes on jewish homeland you f****** idiot read a history book m*********** there were 2 kingdoms and there were jewish kingdoms where was their palestinian Kingdom no but you did rape your way through Georgetown to take the land as your own the land legally is jewish land via the un judair in samaria is literally the birthplace of jewish people and you think it's palestinians oh awkward
@@Mandems973😂judea and samria is jewish 😂😂😂😂😂😂 always was baby rapist and pedofiles
Another pointless debate…
“Why should the Palestinians not get right of return to Israel when Jews get right of return to Israel?”
What a stupid question…
2:15:41 Destiny - the only thing that has maintained stability in the middle east and people respect is power. that's been the language of that region for centuries
2:15:55 Dr. Karim - only if you're talking about after the US & western involvement in the middle east, last 100 years, but not always
2:16:31 Destiny - (Ottoman Empire wars, etc.) so the entire region was peaceful until the white man came.. !?
2:16:39 Dr. Karim - I never said that
Yes, he’s a deeply dishonest person. You can then queue his demand for the UN imposing a solution by force. That’s again an outside force that would be derided as colonial.
@@knorze1777 Never seen someone argue the pro-Palestinian position in good faith or able to concede a single point.
You can definitely tell about an hour and a half in when destiny gave up going easy
"Everyone should be held to the same standard" but I will spend all my time aggressively only applying standards to one particular country while ignoring or downplaying the atrocities of every other major militant group or state in the region. And I will continue to focus on calling a particular country a "Western Liberal Democracy" even though this country is not part of the West and isn't really a liberal democracy. And I will also act like a label of "Western Liberal Democracy" suddenly means they're now held to a higher standard that I, once again, do not apply to any other country in the region. And I'll also aggressively quote mine things that make this country look bad while ignoring the equally minable quotes from the other side that comes across just as bad, and will also ignore the actual history of what this one particular country actually did and focus solely on quote mining and extrapolating from these mined quotes while ignoring the actual history.
And I will also ignore the centuries of violence and conflict in this region and blame everything on a border deal made 100 years ago, ignoring everything that happened before and since
Atassi be like "We can't prove a counterfactual but we should assume my counterfactual is true and condemn everything about Israel based on it"
Also no, Israel did not continue to build settlements in area A after the Oslo accords. That is a blatant lie.
Im losing my mind with the fucking "carpet bombing" bullshit. Cool word and all, but carpet bombing last happend in Vietnam lol.
@Playing With Fire thanks for hosting debates :)
Still have no real reasonable answer from the Dr. for why Israel gave back huge amounts of land, when this is mega counterintuitive for the claims of 'greater Israel'.
Israel doesn’t “recognize its past” that YOU manufacture based on your own delusions about J’s and Israel. They fully recognize their true past as they were the ones living it and know the reality and know their intentions.
Im looking forward to this
The guy debating destiny and keeps getting distracted and then can't answer simple questions when they're right in front of them.
Destiny is being super silly and just ignoring the negligence at all levels and or just is refusing to acknowledge it
The guy on the upper right corner doesn't seem to know what he's talking about
Dr Atassi " you're giving me a question I can't answer" This so-called Dr. backtracks non-stop. Same old Blame blame blame blame. Look in the FCN mirror
Alex, you deserve props for setting this up, this conversation is pretty flawed but is way better than most I/P debates and even though I think your interruptions weren't neutral, you had arguments for them and they helped the conversation.
Yea I’m trying a different form of moderation, designed to prevent ppl from talking past each other which happens so often
they guy speaking to destiny keeps repeating "you need to understand... you need to understand..." every time he is refuted like a beating drum... im starting to think maybe its the doctor who is incapable of understanding
Poor Arabs, so innocent and pure.
Why is everything is happening to them.
mwah😢😢😢
Poor jews, so innocent en holy! Why have they been chased around the world for thousands of years by many different groups, Mwah mwah mwah :)
@ weak bruv, so weak.
Poor Jews kicked out of more than a hundred countries for no reason😢
@@mootje24 I don't see Jews complaining with the status quo right now, only Arabs.
@@Dimabratus wow strong answer bruv, so strong
Best debate so far.
2:52 I appreciate that Destiny called out the double standards. Is it ok to kick people out of countries they've lived in for 1000+ years or not? And it's doubly weird when the conflict isn''t even in your own country. Oh, and do not defend dhimmi status. Yuck. It was a protection racket.
Here's one for you, people should be allowed to return, right
@@ai_com no. Refugees settle and dont pass on the status to descendants. Starting wars has consequences, and Israel is a legit sovereign state who decides on its border policies
@@ai_comThe “right” to return to property that was sold to someone else and generations have passed in between the original displacement is so obviously wrong that I have a hard time believing that people actually think it should be a right.
Karim is being bit frustrating by focusing on some inferred actions Israel might take, and both open and hidden motives based on some quotes.
Problem is that polticians say a lot of shit, and they might even have some of thier own wishes. But especially in democracy they are accountable to people and various interests in government. I mean you literally see this happening every election eveywhere that politicians can't or won't do what they said they want to do, for various reasons. It also really matters whatever these are private opinions ir actual government stance
Exactly!!! It's such a poor argument, and one that they would never extend to their own side (think about all the genocidal statements that Arab and Palestinian leaders say on a daily basis...)
The difference is, palestinians actually mean it. Right wing israeli politicians might say unrealistic stuff to amp up th. 3ir base, but in practice Israel is a normal reasonable country
Did Alex's wife do a wardrobe change?
Fr tho
Destiny: 'Why would Israel wake up and just decide to commit one of the biggest PR blunders possible'
Also Destiny: 'Yeah but Arabs historically keep giving Israel a reason to kill them by starting wars they can't win'
There is a certain benefit of doubt Destiny keeps giving Israel that is wholly unearned, and it doesn't occur to him that if someone keeps doing the morally reprehensible but seems to always have some excuse for it, the time eventually comes where skepticism is an appropriate lens to apply, rather than good faith.
In the case of the girl and her rescuers who were killed in a second-strike by Israel, by the way, Destiny asks why Israel would do it given the PR repercussions, and then answers his own question when he mentions how a result of that incident is aid workers pulling out of the region.
He's come a long way since he first started debating this topic but he seems to stubborn to perform a full 180, whether out of stubbornness or genuine belief that Israel possesses some kind of morality that their victims don't. Huge disappointment to see him backsliding like this. What next, accusing civilians of getting deliberately shot and killed for PR purposes again?
I'm 1 hour 15 in, and it's refreshing to have an actual debate back and forth with no bs or meemage.... Hope it stays this way much props to both right now though
Here is what the pals can do: Accept defeat. Learn that ALL people win some and lose some in life. If your kid loses a tennis match, you can’t tell him/her to insist on containing the match forever until he finally wins. He has to learn to accept the loss and move on. He cannot force the other kid to keep playing more and more sets, which is outside the rules of how any tennis match works.
Destiny school'd him
Always does
No no to the contrary 😂lier
@@cros34there is no contrary.
@@cros34 do you mean *liar?
Did he? seems actually pretty even so far for me.
2:40 Karim don't make any sense with his idea of the 'end game'. And in general destiny is a legend !
The comparison between Gaza and Lebanon is ridiculous. They are two comlpletely different theaters of war with different circumstances.
Moderator says “something like that would never happen in America”…then you don’t know the half of the horrific things that go in everyday in America. Truly horrific how this country sometimes treats its citizens. Wayyyy worse than Israel, if you want to judge Israel as “bad”.
The pro Hamas guy is awful lol. Straight up sucks and is horrible at debating
He’s not pro Hamas…
He said he condemns Hamas ffs
@@AntiTheBird All of them do.
@@a_kazakis Most of them don't
Destiny's final statement - sums up Israel / Palestine in a minute - about as clear and concise as I have ever heard it.
Suggestion: host a debate between destiny and col Daniel Davis on Ukraine. Can Ukraine win, should the US keep supplying Ukraine, was Biden right to approve use of ATACMS deep in Russia.
Or a debate between destiny & Elica Le Bom and Zachary Foster & Aaron Mate on Israel Palestine. Which side is the main obstacle to peace, is the current conflict a genocide etc.
Ukraine can win and Biden should've approved the deep strikes since 2022.
There you go.
They say “all these events and atrocities add up to a pattern”- what events and atrocities? Where is the evidence a soldier was shooting kids in the head? Where is the evidence they full out bombed a hospital? Please list them and the evidence. Where is the proof an Israeli prisoner worker SA a Palestinian prisoner and he was convicted? These things are put out there but where is the evidence? I’ve heard the SA thing was something else completely and the prisoner was trying to sneak a phone in.
Dr. Atassi is more akin to a historian of the region than an analyst of conflict at the present moment. This debate was a mismatch
@@flandergenetics5294 lol.
Bro is definitely not a historian. He talked about Jews violating intl law by moving to Palestine after WW1.
Except there was no intl law preventing this before the end of ww2. No historian would ever make such a basic and obvious mistake.
Even conquest and colonialism was seen as a legitimste way to get territory before ww2 and the UN charter. Dude has no idea what he's talking about...
Then he is a horribly uninformed historian.
Not such a great historian more like an apologist. Every time he's pressed on the actions of any (NOT ISRAEL) it's always Israel's fault. He "didn't know" if hamas uses human shields. He also tried to, literally, say before Hamas was in power there were no wrongdoings by the Palestinians.
And past history is still revelent
In what world would a wikipedia reader becomes most studied, knowledgable people on the planet?
The whole field around this topic is filled so much with ultra partisan rhetoric, that someone looking at the facts is revolutionary.
@@knorze1777 How many wikipedia article did he publish?
@@bugzpodderThere's hours upon hours of streams of him reading actual books live with chat, reading reports and articles and writing down notes... to pretend it's just wikipedia is disingenuous. And if it was the case that it's just wikipedia, then it's very funny how by only reading wikipedia he already knows more than 95% of the people he's debated on the topic. He even knew what Dolus Specialis was, and Finkelstein didn't.
@@davidsoup1738 Destiny is a good debater and he'll beat 95% of people on any topic. But if he's audience is clueless and take everything he says as the literal truth and any other opposing opinion as invalid is just ludicrous. I've listened to him calling all media that don't agree with him as unhinged, while having a good time agreeing with Ben Shapiro.. so yeah I think the person that's actually unhinged is Destiny himself, I feel sorry for his mindless dgg fans.
You dont have to agree with Finklestein's point of view but to dismiss his 40 years of research on Israel Palestine conflict while saying Destiny is somehow more knowledgable after reading several hours of Wikipedia on stream and scored a point over Finklestein during a debate is just ludicrious.
@@bugzpodder Destiny did not have a good time agreeing with Ben Shapiro. He's gone multiple times on stream and has said that he absolutely despises when conservatives pretend to be nice and polite whilst saying disgusting, abhorrent shit. Just because a conversation is "polite" doesn't make it good, productive or actually pleasant.
You can literally spend 3 minutes in the dgg subreddit and find people disagreeing with Destiny. People don't like him because they agree with everything he says. They like him because he actually does the research and can back up every single one of his positions, with facts, extensively. Something which most internet personalities cannot do.
Unfortunately for Finkelstein, I don't have to discredit any research he's done. He did it himself in the debate. Maybe he's just gone a bit senile, but he looked like an absolute fool. Destiny quite literally educated him on what Dolus Specialis meant, during the debate. I'm not making this up. I wouldn't be able to count on two hands the amount of times Norm just called him "Mister Bonelli" on purpose as an insult. Nobody who actually has a coherent argument needs to resort to saying someone's name wrong on purpose. Don't sugarcoat it. Finkelstein made a fool of himself on camera for millions to see. Destiny has had multiple debates with pro Palestinians who were far more coherent and presented more factual information that Finkelstein did. It matters not how many books he's written on the topic if he flounders when asked to defend his position.
So on the whole issue of how the borders were set up, etc. I would like to bring to attention that this is not a uniquely middle eastern thing, lots of places had these border changes from wars, or even as a political tool to keep the territory under control.
One concrete example is my home country in eastern Europe (and other neighbours) where the Russian empire and later on USSR specifically changed the territory so there would be these mix of ethnic minorities.
The main thing is, though, that after we all gained independence in our final state, for the most part (excluding a very very small minority of weirdos), we all accepted that that's the situation with the current borders, current countries, and we need to live in peace and collaborate. (Except from that same one country that didn't like that and now wants the empire back) :)
Exactly. The fact we’re still talking about this 76 years later is not normal. That hostilities are still going on is even more insane.
@@marcgraciov there is occupation in West Bank, take a break .
@@MarkDenmark-nz2pz I was talking specifically about the first part of the debate, about the point which countries were created, and how it's unfair how they were divided. I basically pointed out it's not a uniquely middle eatern situation, the whole world has these, that's history for you
@@marcgraciov I commented about the point of peace. Do you think Isrwl wants peace? Do you think Isrwl is happy with their current borders or they want to expand?
@MarkDenmark-nz2pz I tend to agree with Destiny here, both sides want to continue while they think they can get more, peace is not something that the involved parties want, they want to win, peace is something they have to negotiate when they understand that continuing will make things worse
Karim was definitely biased towards the palestinian position but still from all the advocates I seen he is one of the better advocates. I actually liked his closing statement showing he actually sees where destinys position is coming from even tho he wasn't willing to acknowledge any of that during the debate. That's why I was a little disappointed from destinys steelman that he lumped him in with basically the other crazy pro palestine activists. Even tho I obviously from the debate itself can see why, but don't think it's 100% justified here.
w destiny
Dr Atassi: putting a standert to judge the conflict by
Destiny: showing how the same standert condemns arbas\arab conquests\palestinians
Dr Atassi: changing the goal post
Destiny: responds
Dr Atassi: Changing the goal post
Destiny: responds
Dr Atassi: changing the goal post
lmao at the end there. A year in and he's already done with the region 🤣🤣🤣
Oh my gosh, gow many videos of tunnels under and connected to hospitals, mosques, schools etc for blinkered people like Dr to open their eyes
🇮🇱💪
Is the moderator not the guy that couldn’t recognize a map of Gaza ?? He debated destiny time ago 😂
YES LADY WE CAN SEE THE DOG, HOLY FRICK
Destiny is mercurial, he seems quite impartial today..
No point in this debate, Destiny said himself that the Genocide is completely fine.
Destiny has gotten destroyed, I mean literally OBLITERATEDDDD by BadEmpanada, Mohammed Hijab, Muslim Skeptic/anyone with a brain. Don’t even get me started with Norman Finklestein
I’d bet $1000 you’re an islamobot that justifies your prophet taking an 8 year old as his bride. Your opinion is as valuable as a used condom
There is no genocide. The covillian to combatant ratio is not one of a genocide
@ watch bad empanadas video genocide denier
Can't believe a single human being watched the Norm debate and thought Norm won lmaoooo, Norm spent the whole debate calling Destiny funny names. He didn't even know what Dolus Specialis means.
They really fail when they say put yourself n their shoes because it works both ways.
The girlfriend and the dog are very distracting. And inappropriate!! Not cute at all!
Yet I can't look away bc the guy discussing Lawrence of Arabia, etc. Mr. "You have to understand" - is SO DUMB!!! I can't get over it! LOL!
No lie 🤦🏽♂️
I can not understand why Destiny is still being invited to debate this topic. A man who couldn't point to Israel on a map 2 years ago now thinks he's an expert. He is beyond ignorant and slightly evil.
He's either being paid or just needs content 😂
Destiny knows more about this conflict than most people.
Oh wow 2 years ago. That really changes things then.
@Alex-rq4eu He absolutely does not. It just sounds like he does to people more ignorant than him. He could not locate Gaza or Israel on a map 2 years ago. He claims nobody supports South Africas genocide allegations at the ICJ whereas most countries do. He is unbelievably ignorant and slightly evil.
@johnleoks7642 yes, he jumped on the bandwagon since October 7th knowing nothing of the conflict. Now he presents himself as some kind of expert. To stupid people, he might sound informed, but to the rest of us, he's a joke.
It's funny how no matter what happens, some people will always blame Israel. One or two bad unfortunate incidences in hundreds of days of way is an absolutely amazing record. It's been over a year, over 400 days, and all we have is like one unfortunate incident with a couple smaller incidences with possibilities of neglect? So far from what I've seen their accuracy is around 99.9%. Maybe there are some incidences which haven't been confirmed yet will lower it to 99.8% or much lower like 95% but we can't randomly jump to conclusions with no evidence or logic.
If Israel is trying to delete every person in Gaza they are worse at that task than anyone has ever been at any task in history. And just for the fun of it? For land they already gave to them?
Why are people still platforming Destiny
Seriously
Because they think they have good arguments against him and he has 800k subs
I hear the clearly better arguments from him in this debate.
Why wouldn't they?
Why not platform him?
Destiny? Studied? Knowledgeable? Bro don't intentionally lose respect by saying stupid shit
Listen to the debate and tell me who knew more here lmao. It's quite clear. This "levantine" dude got multiple dates and factual points totally wrong. Destiny ran quite a few circles around him.
Debate Nick Fuentes on this issue. Of course you won't because hes "antisemite". Lol
Agreed
is this a joke comment?
@@AzamatoTheGreat it’s a fact
@@jamespartridge2905 that he is an antisemite? What is the fact?
He literally is an anti-semite. He is genuinely pro-HitIer
See what you need to understand is... what you need to understand is ...see what you need to understand is ... but what you need to understand is...
They are not the most studied lol. Dave Smith can run circles around them. Destiny is a man baby.
Dave Smith 🤣🤣🤣 dude thinks if your Israel or US you shouldn’t be allowed to have a foreign policy or defense
why does dave smith turn quiet when he's on an irl panel with destiny on piers morgan?
Dave Smith is a story teller. That is all.
Dave Smith already got ass slapped by destiny on piers Morgan irl.
We already know how that fight will go, that's why Dave runs and hides at every opportunity for the past 2 years until recently. 😂
Dave Smith? 😂😂😂😂😂
Are you from this planet?
Dr really needs to fix his audio setup.
i remember destiny reading Wikipedia articles on stream and learning basic things about the conflict a week after oct 7 happened. and now we're supposed to consider him an expert? that just shows you you don't need to be knowledgeable just spew nonsense confidently and some people would believe you.
These have to be bot comment sections can u name a single thing he said wrong
@@jsk1429 6:28 literally the first thing he said in his opening statement is false 😂 their slogan literally was "a land without a people to a people without a land". and then went to justify the extreme statements because the other side was violent but he would never give the same courtesy to the Palestinians.
@@azouitinesaad3856the flag of jihad will fly above the white house one day. The apostates will pay inshallah. America will become a muslim country mark my words
Yeah. He comes from a neutral standpoint, not emotional, and bases his opinion on facts. Most "wxperts" have an agenda and an emotional bias
@@azouitinesaad3856bullshit
Destiny absolutely demolished the guy.
Damn destiny getting cooked again for trying to defend genocide.
what do you mean, whre did destiny try to defend hamas getting rid of all jewish people
you watched the wrong vid huh? Yeah that glitch happened yesterday for me better update your app
Did you watch the debate?
@@WtFOver2 yea I watched it, Destiny admitted the settlements are wrong, Israel turns down every peace deal and Israel does not care about international law. All the things he has been denying but now has no choice but to concede.
It’s the other way around. You’re delusional 😂
The moderator is not neutral at all. Kari me is so fixed in his position he can’t say one positive thing about Israel but Destiny is much more fair toward the Palestinians.
So why isn’t it the gazans responsibility to overthrow hummus, if it’s Israeli’s responsibility to overthrow their government?
Notice how Karim constantly pivots to avoid failing to rationally prop up the pro-Palestinian narrative.
The Al-Aqsa Intifada saw a dramatic upswing in suicide bombings, with A, 40% of the total number originated in East Jerusalem.[a] A 2007 study of Palestinian suicide bombings during the Second Intifada (September 2000 through August 2005) found that 39.9% of the suicide attacks were carried out by Hamas, 26.4% by Fatah, 25.7% by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), 5.4% by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) and 2.7% by other organizations. The attacks steeply declined by 2008.
Karim's fixation on Israel's mistakes made during war combined with his attitude regarding the "lack of" evidence of Hamas' warcrimes and tactics that maximize civilian deaths is laughable and he is clearly not arguing in good faith.
Destiny is willing to make concessions of things Israel does that he does not agree with, but when pressed to make concessions for hamas, Karim cannot do it, despite the consensus of opinion on the reality of this conflict. Ignorance is bliss.