American HK33 knockoffs - the C93 (by PTR) to 500yds: Practical Accuracy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
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The HK33 and HK93 are well known to many internationally, but the C93 is typically only known to American enthusiasts. The is because the C93 is a re-build of de-milled German-made HK33 kits from Malaysia.
While Century / CAI (not the gov agency) butchered many of these builds by a poorly spec-ed out receiver, PTR later had produced a small batch of C93 rifles with unused HK33 kits. How well do these perform? How do they compare to the real HK93? We find out.
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Josh yelling out, "Poor, poor, poor!" incessantly like some kind of snobby seagull had me dying. 🤣
Mine?
Mine?
Mine?
Yeah, what's Uncle Sam paying on average per M4 nowadays?
Judging by the 2020 FN contract, it looks like $713/rifle.
@@Smurfman256 fuck does that have to do with anything
Henry's German accent is on point. I'm saying that as a German .
vielen dank!
"Together, we will conquer the world.... of small arms development"
WWII is funny?
@@Kinetic.44No its hilarious
@@Kinetic.44 Oh boy you must be fun at parties
@@Kinetic.44 if Mel Brooks can make a movie and right a song making fun of certain things of WW2 then I think its ok to have a laugh as well
Growing up in Bishop, California (1970s and 80s) a friend of my father (a Bureau of Land Management Desert Ranger) carried an HK 93a3, along with an Ithaca 37 LAPD special and a 1911 as his service weapons while Patrolling the deserts of California and Nevada. In the areas now inside Death Valley National Park. Remember, this is where Charles Manson and his followers were arrested. I asked Bruce why he carried the HK and he said "because back up is hours away"
And now backup for civilians in blue cities is about 1hour away.
@@tonyc223 Friendly reminder that cops are under no legal obligation to help you, no matter what political party you support.
Patrolling the Mojave makes you wish for a nuclear winter.
@@lelandgaunt9985I’m still angry the G3 pattern never made an appearance in FNV. If you go to Ralph’s hidden gun room, there’s even a model of it up on the wall (as well as a C96…)
"Serve and Protect" is nothing more than the LAPD's slogan; not a guarantee.
Good Afternoon gentlemen. May I make a suggestion. As an Army vet Ordnance Corps I was a 44B/44E. Welder metalworker that worked with the machinists. I suggest taking the scope mount itself to a machine shop and have them take out the negative tolerance from the receiver out of the mount. A good shop can take it out of the mount stantions, re weld and machine down the welds for aesthetics. It would designate that particular mount for that particular rifle only. That’s what my machinist and I would have done in the field to overcome a small problem such as the MOA issue if the rifle itself cannot be modified. Just a suggestion sir. SPC 4(p), U.S. Army, 1984-1992. Desert Storm we performed jobs that our officers didn’t know we could do and often got around the “Army red tape” so we could Charlie Mike. I enjoy your videos immensely as I was an Expert Marksman for my whole time in service but I was denied participation in the black rifle teams due to being the only 44B in the battalion because of T.O.E. I was also taught how to shoot by my father who is a retired CW3 and Presidents Hundred. Keep the videos coming. Maybe I will meet you 2 when I retire and move to Texas. Aloha
The HK33 was Malaysia's first 5.56 service rifle and the shortest lived one. If this was a Malaysian kit, then it was manufactured in the early 70s at the latest; Malaysia abandoned the HK33 due to many problems and domestic licenced manufacturing issues and instead made a special acquisition in 1976 to buy a bunch of M16A1s straight from Colt (the rest of Malaysia's M16 inventory were made in Singapore).
Being a Malay speaker, S-U-O is probably a translation of the old British style trigger group: "selamat" (safe), "ulangan" (repitition), and "otomatik" (automatic).
I remembered reading that in the book, "A Treatise on Roller Locking". It's kind of sad that they couldn't work out the quality issues with their 33s.
@@danielgreen6547 Yeah, Malaysia wouldn't have a locally manufactured rifle until the Steyr AUG. Henry's example, I think, was likely not in service for that long though it may have seen action as Malaysia was engaging in a war against Communist Insurgents at the time.
Malaysia boleh
My father was a Army cadet and he got to use the HK33 over the M16A1 during a shooting competition. Didn't really like as it was heavier and recoil a lot more than the M16A1.
Henry’s quite the cultured gentleman. Multilingual, well-traveled, served with honor, supremely knowledgeable, and can blend in with any accent. Quite the varied and diverse background, and an amazing shot to boot.
A true renaissance man
On the 1,000 subscriber special on the channel, Henry shared that when he first enlisted in the Army, he first considered joining as an intelligence officer before settling with Supply and Ordinance. Because he was very well traveled, highly educated, and could work with people of many different walks of life, he'd be an asset.
However, under suspicions that he could also be a spy (I mean, he seems too good to be true), he settled with the Ordinance Department as he also had a fascination with weapons and arms development.
Henry should just bend his scopes to fit
great idea, you must have worked for nasa.
Thinking outside the tube 👍🏻
@@mrkeogh The Jerries aren't bombing Britain no more.
Thank you for making this video. I have so few quality C93 videos.
I should have bought 3 back in the day when they were cheap.. but all I have is the one now.
I’ve yet to take mine out to 300+ yards. But inside of 100-200 yards it’s been a fun gun.
For anyone frustrated by feeding, get an MKE steel mag or replace your mag catch.. you’ll have more reliable feeding.
HK33KA3 with the slim hand guard, FBI style lower, and MP5 telescopic stock is top 3 sexiest Cold War guns.
Telescoping stocks are so ugly compared to side fold
@@jason200912 There are no folding stocks for the 33. And something about HKs and telescopic stocks just work.
@@ElGringo21 I'm saying folding stock is always better than telescoping. Every stock "just works" including the AK shovel handle stocks.
@@ElGringo21The folding PDW stock will fit just fine.
I prefer this look the mp5 she said not to worry about
Nice call out to the East German Diensteinheit XI with the Strichtarn & HK33 set-up.
8:25 As charming as you are, Henry, why do I get the sense that you’re actually wearing shorts and flip flops, cleverly obscured by the pool table? Seriously, another great review.
Henry's mimicry of foreign accents is as boundless as his ability to shoot the shit out of a rifle!
I remember when HK93's hit my fave gun dealer's shelves around 1983-84....for the princely sum of $450.00 ($1,362 in today's money). Ah, all the missed opportunities over the years. LOL
Hello from Thailand! We still keep 33 as conscript main rifle, Used to carry one.
Wht does it shoot like
I own a PTR built C93. It has been an excellent rifle.
I actually have 2 HK93 in mint condition. Was a gifted from a HK importer at the time (circa early 1980's). Both were brand new. I should note, my family is in the firearms industry....were FFL 8,9,10 mainly/SOT class 2 & 3. Though my brother does have 3 retail shops. We tool receivers, manuf. barrels. And other small parts, for other manufactures. I do have a 25% stake in company. But I don't work there. I'm a M.D.
Lucky guy with a mad flex ! Thanks Doc.
My PTR C93 has been fantastic! I used a B&T mount for a TA31 ACOG and it's been a pretty solid shooter!
No welding. Low rise, pick Mount. That's what I got on my G3. Same problem. It helped a lot.
I really appreciate the intro showing the range's physical size, really gives more gravity to how far the targets are and just how well Henry shoots.
Great review! I bought an HK91 and a HK93 when they hit the U.S. market. Mounted scopes on them w/HK mounts, HK bipods, etc. Sold the '91 but kept the '93. It's trigger pull isn't match quality but still sufficient to take a quantity of prairie dogs for the first few years before upgrading to a heavy barreled bolt gun. Always reliable. Just a pain for reloads due to fluted chamber marks on brass.
@9HoIeReviews Sounds good to me.
I remember that ptr run. "PTR900" i think they called it.
If it wasn't for magazine prices, I'd have kept it, outstanding gun.
Henry sounded like he is/was battling a cold through out this episode. Get well soon Henry the West depends on you.
"Not for the novice" is absolutely correct when mounting scopes on these. Get a B&T, MFI or equivalent bolt-on mount and scribe the bottom of the mount to the top of the c93 receiver (essentially taking more material out of the bottom, front of the mount) compensating for the canted stamping/assembly.
I have one of the Century C93's, and it's always run well for me (with steel case- jams every time with brass ammo). I mounted a bit of picatinny and a cheap red dot on it. Love that thing!
Dude same, I still don't understand what the hell is with that (didn't look too much into it either tbh)
You guys compliment each other so well…..great channel
I’ve got a 33k German kit build that I absolutely love. One of my favorite rifles. Definitely a heavy blaster especially when you hang a can out front.
I actually watch your patreon segments because they're sooo damn good!
I have a Century C93 that I had worked over by Ghillie bear back in 2010 time frame back when these first started popping up. He ended up fixing all the welds, installing a paddle mag catch and re-barreling it. It is a great rifle. I don’t shoot it much but I also don’t want to sell it because I these hadn’t shot up in value yet. I paid maybe $450 for the rifle and a little more than that for the tune up. It is a classic service rifle. I kind of wished I picked up a 53 and SBRed it.
I had my C-93 also worked on with Jeff at GhillieBear. He takes care of alot of the problems. I also purchased the C-93 pistol Better quality but Jeff still had to fix Century issue problems replacing the rollers, extractor spring, and attach the paddle magazine catch. Jeff still "repairs" and builds H&K weapons. You can Google search for Parabellum Combat Systems
I wouldn't weld the rail, because we've already seen Henry take base rifles and add optics before, and the results were predictably better with an optic, we know Henry has a fixation for form factor, he didnt remove the front sight on his ak4d clone even though it would've been correct, permanent modification that ruins the aesthetic is not Henry's style
Holy crap! Just when I thought I’d never see another new review on the C93 here comes 9 Hole Review! My C93 (pre PTR build) is what got me into roller delays. And don’t you dare weld a rail on that! Like you said it’s a nerd gun. Leave it as such.
you know what be cool a 45-70 sharps rifle Accuracy review. there so many stories about long range shooting with them and moives like quigley down under rifle show this rifle doing some crazy shots.
I have long suspected one of the prime drivers for SEAL use in Vietnam was the fact that they could get 40 round magazines for them at a time when the only practical option for the M16 or XM177 was still the 20 round magazines.
Would love to see you two try out the other roller delayed 5.56 - the Cetme L!
A MOST beautiful Rifle
One of my favorite rifles HK 33/93
Wunderbar! Sehr gut!!
you could always buy a new clamp on mount and mill it to be correct with line boring the rings to be correct for centerline to centerline versus the receiver issues
Love the 93-33 having 3 in my inventory 2 ptr and a vector have scopes on 2 and reflex on the other never had issues with any except for chucking bass to the next county. In comparison with the ar platform no gas in the face or the spring feel and sound. Have always wanted one since the 1970’s seen in a gun magazine ad.
I got to shoot both the HK 93 and the HK 91 at a law enforcement demonstration shoot back in the early 90’s, along with a couple MP5 models. Great experience. I didn’t enjoy the extra recoil of the 91, but really loved the 93 and the MP 5s. The sights were nice and aiming was easy for my young eyes.
My suggestion is a shim or offset for the mount, that way you can keep your aesthetics and still use optics
They use a special claw mount and scope. I've never put one on mine to see if it too points up like Henry,s. I have two of the scopes on the claw mounts on my G3,s. They are not near as good as modern optics. But really cool non the less.
@@davidkohler7454 yeah, I'm suggesting they modify the claw mount, they have picitanny ones that may work
Weld a rail on it. I did on my c93 pistol build. I was so mad when I realized what century did to the kit. Had to spend extra time and money I wasn’t planning to. New correct front sight and new correct cocking tube. They made stuff real wonky.
I shot HK33 during Brazilian Air Force basic training, in 2015. At that time, I knew nothing about guns' history. Now it keeps me wondering how we got this little nieche gun. Nowadays, Brazilian Air Force is changing the oldest HK33s for the Taurus version of the AR15 ("T4" rifle). The T4 has as lot of shaking and kinda loose parts, mainly at the handguard and stock, but has much less recoil when compared to HK33. Thanks for the content, and keep up the awesome work! Greetings from Brazil
A well tuned AR15 has a very pleasant recoil. But it fouls up quickly and will last a shorter amount of rounds. I can certainly appreciate why Brazil, who's not exactly known for being extravagant with army equipment, would have chosen the HK33. Denmark has G3s, that have seen 50 years of conscripts, in service with the active reserve. An HK33 will last longer than a G3 simply because the cartridge isn't as violent on the parts. But I suspect that because the AR15 has such an absurd amount of manufacturing scale behind it, it might actually be net cheaper even if it breaks more.
Truly, being left handed is a curse 😢
I think the overbore variation of theslap looks even better
I don’t have problems and I’m left handed
Henry's German cousin Herr Gerhardt can really put on a performance.
I bought a c93 in 2008..... Started me getting into gunsmithing as a hobby to fix that turd (headspace off, rear sight crooked, fix welds)
I had a Vector Arms V93. It was a superb rifle, accurate and soft-shooting and beautiful. It was hard to find mags for it.
I stupidly sold it in ‘12 after Sandy Hook and bought a motorcycle with the money; not a week goes by when I don’t regret the decision.
I have a c93 and mounted an optic, it required taking off rear sight but it was easy to zero so it very interesting to hear about mounting issues
The hamburger is from Hamburg New York and the restaurant that invented it is still in business over 100 years later
I have shot irons to 300, and the distance difference between 200 and 300 is the difference between easy and somewhat difficult. 500 is so small on your front sight that it's pretty impressive
I think it's safe to say, we're all here for Henry's "nuggets" 🤣🤣🤪🤪
Paddle mag release? Check
HK slap? Check
5.56? Check
Shut up and take my money.
Zenith are working on their own clone called the Z33.
LRBHO? No
LRBHO? No :(
Hotel? Truvago
@@Spec_tisumNice. Good to see we now have clone options to purchase :).
Chen: "HANS! BRING ZE FLAMMENWERFER!"
Josh: *khhhhhhhhhh (flammenwerfer_noises.mp3)*
Chen: ZE SCHWEISSBRENNER (WELDING) FLAMMENWERFER!
Josh: *khhhhhhhhhh! (rail_welding_noises.mp3)*
Keep it based.
Excellent video
Hey Austin! Thanks!
Excellent work gents 🎉
Thank you for the video! I am interested in this PTR version, because the HK33 is a great looking rifle. I had a Vector 93 years ago, but it had terrible accuracy, key-holing at 100 yards. I sold it after a short period of time and the experience soured me on the design. I would be interested in a reliable, accurate HK33 clone.
Josh saying "Did you?"😂 gets me every time 😂
Miss my 33
I had an H&K 93 years ago. Murdered the brass that I wanted to reload. Was the dirtiest gun I'd ever owned and hardest to clean and mags were extremely scarce and expensive so I couldn't stock up on them. Loved the diopter sights but the rest of the rifle was 'Meh'. It WAS accurate though it had to go to make room for more practical rifles in the safe.
Here in Peru 🇵🇪 the HK33 and the HK53 are used by certain police specialized units such as the anti-drug jungle-deployed Sinchis.
@ajoyuen25 Do they seem to like them?
We said the same thing on that "2in. to the right" on target 6 at 400y too!
CETME - L next please!
I like seeing Iron sights and a comparison of the main styles Iron sight would be interesting what styles Henry likes.
I think you should have a custom scope clamp made for. The offset factory clamp
I used to have one of these. It only cycled with steel cased ammo
I wondered about the photo of east german special forces with this
Saw this video thinking I missed some announcement that PTR was finally coming out with some HK33 clones
tbh we all wished it when they were making 5.56 announcements... unfortunately we don't have a direct line to chat with PTR.
Me personally, I'd keep it classic style. But then I also intentionally bought a PTR 91 without the rail bc I like the classic HK look
i remember reading about Century Arms CTME's and just seeing "don't"
Nice NVA-Jacket! Looks like FDA-Sommer,summer version. Still have a lot of that gear at home from my dad and my uncle.
That slap though
Idea for a video! Buy the $350 palmetto state armory and see how it does on the course!
Please do the CETME C308. I wanna know if I was an idiot for not buying one when they were 6 bills.
Gotta say, this is the first rifle I never knew we had, never saw one or even picture examples of them during my service. I knew we had (and still used) G3, MP5 and even the G3 belt feds but never knew we had HK 33, we only though Thailand were the only ones who had them
I think it would be definitely worth seeing if theres a machine shop that can cut a mount for you to counter the offset
In West Germany we didn't said ,,Enemy/Feind". We said ,, die Kameraden von der anderen Feldpostnummer".
LOL. I don't speak German fluently but I got that one alright!
You're a helluva shot, Henry.
Henry: "YOU EXPECT ME TO ADJUST BY 1-2 INCHES ON IRON SIGHTS?"
Josh: ".... ye... yeah?... You do that all the time...."
Quite sensibly using 55 grain. 62 grain SS109/M885 will break the rollers. Radway Green kept manufacturing 55 grain ball in parallel to 62 grain SS109 because of all the Hk53s floating about in military and police service in the UK.
HIS RIFLE.. LET THE BIG DOG WELD IF HE WANTS.. hahahahahah ..i would not..but hey.. lets see him do it with no pockets and cold weld..lol.. aweesome video , always fun to listen too
is this spam? @9HoIeReviews
Mein Got, I can't believe you missed. It vas vindy und cloudy and Josh tried to tell you.....
Make no mistake, Henry's naked-eye vision is on mutant level.
I don’t want to bore you all, but being a Brit and a Vet I just wanted to pass on a little regarding the HK53, first the picture you used is actually a Royal Military Police Close Protection Officer - this unit used these weapons along with others for many years. Also the “53” was used extensively in Northern Ireland too by many different units 😊 there endeth the Lesson ;-)
thanks! I should have mentioned the RUC use of the 33, but i'll save that for the true HK93 video. i'll be sure to bring this up too, thanks!
I'd comsider using an HK claw to 1913 rail mount, and remachine the Pic rail end to get those 30 MOA back (might have to remove the current rail, modify another rail as a precision machining job, and kludge it back together.
The resulting mess would still be less of an esthetic mess than welding a rail.to the receiver.
Dein Deutsch wird immer besser, mein Freund. 🫡 Danke Henry
Don’t weld a rail on top. Tig a bead on top of the two back tabs, then mill the welds down until the scope and bore are parallel, refinish and you’re good to go.
Their are a few HK smiths out their that should be able to do that for you.
I have a C91, C93 and a C93p. I like the low mounts with a red dot.
The HK’s are kool, but my go to is an AR, lighter weight, more ergonomic and parts availability.
Don't weld a rail on it. Get a rail mount (like a B&T, or maybe a cheaper option), get a gun smith to slice off the rail part and reweld it with the correct angle. That way you can mount the rail, use the optic with the correct angle and still remove it for original aesthetics.
Great Review 😊😊
Keep the C93 sanitised. It’s a great looking rifle. I’d love one myself (as well as its grandfather-in-law, the L1A1).
But get a gunsmith to shim out the sight mounts.
Henry, you should put that big scope on an MP5 and see how far you can stretch it.
And I'd keep that rifle clean and classic. No welding for me.
Weld it.... throw a comp m4/5 on top still a vibe
i want to see an HK32 review so much!
I had a 93a3 in the late 80s and i sold it in the 90s for more than double my investment.
The retractable stock made the recoil more unpleasant. And i was surprised at the recoil being more than the AR. Conversely, i have a CETME L, which has a more svelte feel and quite soft recoil.
I also have a Century-made C93 that thankfully runs without a hitch haha. Enough to scratch the roller-delayed itch.
I cut an MFI low-profile rail down to size to clear the carry handle. A red dot on top. Nothing fancy.
If you want to get your roller delayed blow back on and don’t want to spend HK money. Get a MarColMar Cetme L, it checks all the H&K boxes: crappy ergonomics, bad trigger, damages the brass, and gets super dirty.
too late, i bought two HK93s for the show
and i'm for real poor now
The jacket Henry is wearing looks very much like the NVA "one line no line fighter uniform". Made in GDR.
Most interesting thing aobut the HK33 is the shorty foreend that I can use on my 16" barreled PTR91.
Cool vid, though!
Henry and Josh turning into Brassfacts and Hop at the end and I love it
My PTR rifle has never successfully fired a full magazine without a jam. Its back at the factory now for the 2nd time for warranty service. Choose where you spend your hard ear ed cash carefully.
I have always liked how the HK33 looks, a must use for me in games that have it, like R6: Siege.
Weld the rail, a minor blemish if you will, is such a practical and utilitarian choice. After all, only accurate rifles are interesting. Nobody complains that the new PTR's have rails, because they are just too useful.
"only accurate rifles are interesting" the rail doesn't change the accuracy. the statement means good performing rifles, and this is a good performing rifle, so it already checked that box. also, it's his rifle he said he wants for it's classic look.
There are so many more elegant solutions than welding a rail. The hk receivers mount rails so easily.
The roller lock hks are not fals or aks.
@@moistjohn
You heard him say the sheetmetal on the receiver is 30 degrees off, right? And that welding a rail would be the only practical optic mounting solution?
I am simply going off Henry's own words.
@@moistjohnif your talking about the clamp mounts, I’ve heard they can cause malfunctions by squeezing the receiver too tight. All my roller guns have rails welded on for that reason
Most rifles are now accurate by the standards of the day when that quote gained traction. Now it's like saying only cars which can drive freeway speeds are interesting.
I managed to find a “vector arms” V93 just the other day and I cannot for the life of me find anything about the build quality. What stuck out to me is that it had the mag paddle release so it immediately seemed a step above the average sporter
I think we should start a fundraiser for getting Henry a genuine HK33 on a Dealer Sample license. If for nothing else, then just to hear him talk about it in his hilarious fake German accent :P