Lotus Esprit - While you are in there recommendations Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ย. 2024
- Having the body off chassis of this Lotus Esprit Turbo opened up an endless amount of decisions and possibilities in the continued tear down and then rebuild it again. Join me in the discussion and what the best options are!
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Very interesting. I hope you get lots of feedback. Here's my uninformed opinion, since you asked:
- steel backbone: clean it, sure. don't make it dinner plate clean and have to recoat it. Don't want you crying if you have to drive over some tar.
- intercooler? have you actually found a way for a DSM sidemount to be considered an upgrade part?
- brakes? Don't touch 'em. You have a chance to experience an 80s supercar as it was. A rare opportunity. Can always change them out if you decide your Ranger stops better.
- suspension? See brakes. Just having modern tires will massively improve both braking and handling over what was possible in '89.
- I'd bet the nylon nuts were used because there doesn't appear to be anything to dampen vibration/twisting, so all of those inaccessible fasteners would not be at risk of backing out.
- power mods? I'd want to experience the stock performance levels. Reliability mods, sure, but I'd up the hp ante only after experiencing it stock. If the turbo is shot, then stick a 16G on there and call it good. I know that 80s fast isn't 20s fast, but I'd hate to always wonder 'how fast was it back in the day?' It's also much more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow, and the Esprit won't be 'that' slow.
Redirect the $ from brakes/suspension into the likely expensive interior bits that you'll see and touch every time you interact with the car. Spend the remainder on some good bourbon to toast your Mrs. that lets you spend all of this time and money out in the carhole when you take the car on its maiden voyage.
Having a fast DSM spoils a guy and kinda warps your perspective on what is fast and what isn't; I wouldn't want to replicate the compromises of an 11sec DSM underneath what is going to be pristine example of an Esprit.
All great points Whodisthis. I do not wish to spoil the ride of what the Esprit is so nothing insane like the DSM world led me to. I want to catch the "while you are in there" moment along with make it right of course. Jonathan commented earlier of I can always do the suspension and brakes anytime later which sells me on that decision.
The Mrs. loves yellow cars so I think it I can reach a little bit more on this one compared to other stuff she barely tolerates. :) It's a UK car so we shall drink Scotch. ;)
Really enjoyed your walk around asking for comments. Reading the comments already is enlightening . I watched the Jay Leno Lotus drive and see where you are headed. My you tube is filling up with Lotus rebuilds… and it’s your fault!
Glad to oblige in getting you more Lotus content. 😁
Looks good. I have a S4S I have to get started on in North Carolina and will be following your channel closely.
S4S, nice! It is hard to get started for sure. Mine sat for over two years until the stars aligned and I got moving. It didn’t take long until the point of no return. 😀. Thanks for watching!
Hello, I live in the US (San Jose CA to be exact) I owned 3 lotus a f years back, an esprit, elite and eklat, all 1977s, they are pretty easy to work on, I was able to replace the timing belt with out any problems (and I may add that I’m not a mechanic) I did the head gasket on the esprit and the part where cheaper then a Toyota, I can’t wait to see the whole restoration progress, I started looking esprit videos because I will purchase an esprit V8 so I want to be ready for the damage or to be ready to do upgrades on them thanks a lot 👏👏👏👏👏👏
Thank you Frank for the comment and letting us know your history with Lotus’s. I have been to San Jose in my time and it is beautiful there. I am happy you are interested in my videos. There is lots more to come for sure!
SOME TIPS: THIS IS A SHIM VALVE MOTOR NOT A HYDRAULIC SELF ADJUSTING LIFTER SO A PAIN TO ADJUST ALSO
SLEEVE 2 AND 3 CAN LEAK PRESTON INTO THE OIL THEY ARE THE HOTTEST THAT CAUSE PROBLEMS
, THE ORIGINAL HIGH VOLTAGE COIL WHEN HOT CAN BE INTERMITTENT COMMON PROBLEM, THE RENAULT TRANSMISSION AXLE SEALS CONSTANTLY LEAK EVEN AFTER YOU RE DO THEM, ALSO IN MY OPINION, THE FRONT T FRAME FOR LEFT AND RIGHT FRONT WHEELS SEEMS WEAK TO ME IF ONE FRONT WHEEL WOULD ENTER A GIANT POT HOLE, THE BOX T WOULD BEND, IF YOU LOOK AT THE ELAN FRONT END ITS A TRIANGLE STYLE, WHEN THE BODY GETS PUT BACK ON I WOULD TRIANGULATE THE FRONT WHEELS WITH SQUARE TUBING OF AROUND 3 FEET ON EACH SIDE TO THE CENTER FRAME SLIGHTLY REINFORCED PLATE BOLTED IN SOMEHOW
Try out a spray can of the auto part store engine degreaser on the chassis before you go crazy with any expensive coatings. I was amazed how well it cleaned up everything on my Esprit. You just spray it on, let it sit for a short time, and then rinse it off. All the grease and dirt came right off and the metal looked bright and new without any damage to it. It stinks like diesel fuel, so have some good protection and ventilation.
I love the first hand experience you are sharing PH. Your input definitely solidifies to try to clean things up first as you say before doing anything “crazy”. I have spent some time researching on how to recondition galvanized back to new looking and your comment helps so much in the hope of doing so. Thank you!
I have a 94 S4. I am updating/backdating and bolt on mods so the car is fun and reliable for track days and "fast road" - nothing too serious. I have a long background in modifying and tracking old rusty Porsches and Datsuns. Enjoying the Esprit so much. My philosophy is always to try and identify the things that the factory compromised with respect to:
- Cost (LOtus was seemingly always shoe string)
- Emissions (huge in this era of cars)
- Mass Appeal (ICE, Alarms, extra sound deadening, softening, or over the top luxury),
Then I try to fix/improve. I like to get inspired by the factory hot rods, in this case the X180R or S300, Similar to the huge number of RS replicas in the early air cooled porsche world.
As you kind of alluded to its important to identify your goals. If you dont plan to take the car to the track the factory brakes are fine...although I identified that as a huge compromise (the funky ABS system on the S4 cars is a whole nother discussion that you thankfully dont have to worry about). The awesome stainless steel headers that are available are gorgeous, improve reliability and performance a bit - not really necessary - totally reversible.
UNfortunately Face Book has kind of taken over for the Auto Forums that were such a foundation for me. I know a lot of folks will NOT do FB - and I get it, but there is several great FB groups for the Esprit and some hugely talented and resourced Esprit nuts are doing some amazing builds. There is a discussion recently about the suspension options. There is also lots of suspension details on the Esprit forum on Lotus Talk and TLF (Uk based forum). You are probably familiar with all of this but just in case.
My thinking on suspension is you have to go with an adjustable coil over on these types of light weight cars. The resources were simply not available to Lotus (or other period manufacturers) at the time and corner balancing (with your weight in the drivers seat) the Esprit (and similar old light cars) even for spirited street driving is worth it. Also if you end up taking some weight out of the car you can maintain ride height. The FE V8 Esprit came with adjustable coil over Bilstein Suspension. Ride height is also a big compromise for OEM. They have to set the cars up to go everywhere, enthusiasts like us can run 10 or 20 mm low and take advantage of the fun performance and not plow into inappropriate driving situations....🙂 Again if you look at the S300 it came 10mm lower from the factory....watch your front air dam.
Modern quick spool turbos and electronics will only increase enjoyment - obviously you have to keep in mind what comes after the fly wheel - too crazy and stuff will break (the trans was another pretty big compromise for Lotus.
As far as IC go, I would do it, I would look at some of the high end V8tt Esprit builds/race cars for inspiration. I have seen a couple where they thoughtfully designed air to air IC that bolted in to the trunk behind the engine and were quickly removable. They vent out the rear of the car between the rear lights (like an F360) with a small fan- since you have to modify that anyway....a black grill in the rear between the rear lights would look good and the factory did this on the race cars. I think it can be done and almost look factory. The air/air IC can be totally reversible and no crazy plumbing. I have also seen them Air/ to water with a small radiator in the trunk.
Great info and suggestions Erik. All good ideas that can easily be reversed if wanting it to return to stock too. Mentioning the limit of the gear box is something I forgot to mention in my video, but an aware it is a weakness. I am glad you mentioned this point. I agree that these cars seem higher than they needed to be. It surprised me when I got this one.
@@SlippingTime Another thought, I would be judicious selecting wheels and tires. I have gone the big wheel route, on these relatively low torque cars it just kills performance - also they are heavy. My preference, an inch wider than stock lighter than stock wheel, lower profile wider tire that maintains near OEM diameter. $$$$ better sell a DSM 🙂
@@eriklombard322 lol. I do need to sell a few that’s for sure.
Love the vlogs. I would clean up the chassis and spend £ on the mods.i have an s4 GT I moved the oil cooler to the back, try to make the car as lightweight as possible. A road racer would be amazing, maybe a flip rear clam like the gt40😁
Lol on the gt40 look. Love those cars too! You caught that I plan to "drive" this car when done even once it is in show piece condition.
Colin Chapman's philosophy was "Add Lightness" . Powder coating, rather than sticking to zinc plating the chassis goes against this. Keep in mind Chapman was a genius with a vast amount of experience when thinking of changing things on this classic car.
So true Dale. Can’t argue with that philosophy and the reason the car is was it is.
Thank you for the reminder!
If you do powder coat, it is important the original zinc galvanize is in good shape, or to apply a zinc rich powder coat primer before the finish coat is put on. The issue with powder coat is that any small chip allows a galvanic cell to form between the oxygen rich outside atmosphere and the oxygen poor region under the powder coat, leading to extensive corrosion under the powder coat. TVR found this out the hard way when they experience wide spread failure of some of their powder coated tube frames after only a few years.
@@fafner1 always good to hear about real life experience. I spoke with a guy that powder coats industrial stuff as well and he aligns completely with what you are saying.
1. Get rid of the red clutch hose and replace with braided steel or braided steel/kunifer.
2. Check valve clearances and adjust as necessary.
3. Change cambelt and other belts unless they have been very recently replaced.
Thank you Thomas for the tips. The clutch line and cam belt were in the list, but hadn’t thought forward enough yet on doing the valve clearances. I need to familiarize myself more yet in this engine and what it needs at this point.
@@SlippingTime Sorry. Yes I realised you had covered those two points after I posted my message. I skimmed the video first time around as I was busy then watched it again later.
The red clutch hose gave me a world of pain back in the 1980s. At that time neither I, nor the very good UK dealer I used, could diagnose the problem. Of course I could not Google it at that time. It was a paper based world.
The main reason I say do the valve clearances is because it is much easier to do now than when the car is back together.
@@thomasempacher9337 valve clearances are on the list now thanks to you! And make sense to do it since I will be doing the cam belt too. I am curious what issues(s) you were experiencing with the red clutch line.
@@SlippingTime When the clutch hose gets really hot it swells. By that I mean depressing the clutch pedal increases the volume of the hose rather than fully moving the clutch slave cylinder. As clutch disengagement is incomplete the gears crunch when you try to engage a gear.
At that time neither I, nor my very good UK dealer, could diagnose the problem and I could never get the problem to manifest itself at the dealership. The problem was intermittent and at times you could drive for a week without it appearing.
My car was an '82 Turbo with the Citroen transmission. I switched to synthetic transmission fluid (Mobilube SHC 75W90) and did frequent clutch fluid changes which seemed to improve things a bit but I never solved the problem.
Interestingly the early Elises produced in the late '90s also had the cursed red hose but they quickly changed to a braided steel hose on the production line and offered a retrofit kit for earlier cars.
@@thomasempacher9337 thanks for sharing this issue with everyone in the comments. Good to know!
Thanks for another fantastic video. I'm really interested in where you are heading with this as I bring my 86 HCI Turbo back to life.
It is an adventure to say the least Kevin. I will share the journey as long as people like you are interested. There is a lot to think about, learn, and do at this point. I am up for the challenge no doubt! Where are you at so far with the 86 HCI T?
Dunno if you still have access to my blog but you'll see a 100% stripped chassis there. I used a nylon abrasive to take the dirt off with little risk of damaging the galvanised coat - took 2 days but worth it. I wouldn't powder coat, imo the chassis has too much flex and once it cracks its hard to repair - same on the bolt faces, once you bolt down on powder coating it's kinda compromised when it cracks. I'm going to use an epoxy mastic on mine, and as you say preserve the hand writing, the key is the preparation.
IMO I would only do jobs that you need to do with the body off - which means leaving the suspension and brakes. Why? Cus unless you've driven an Esprit you wont have a reference, plus as you say you can burn money here which is why projects usually end up fizzling out. Brakes and suspension are easily done with the body in place. Just for reference the Esprit is 44:56 weight distribution with a very low CG. My sims suggest at 1G the braking capacity is about 60F:40R so I would not ignore the rear brakes when you get there.
Any heat exchanger you put in will be way too small imo. All the areas you point out are in turbulent flow so again it's not going to be the best positions. I have seen people mount gearbox oil coolers there, but they are the size of A4 piece of paper. Personally I would look at replicating the Lotus air-water chargecooled system as it is highly efficient, ppl have fitted oversized chargecoolers on top of the engine to maximise flow and cooling. You wont have the SE's "overboost" feature but you can run higher than std boost without knock. You can possibly run the water tubes along the outside of the tunnel above the body mounts, use an electric pump. How you accommodate the oil cooler as well is another issue.
What I would buy without hesitation are the adjustable upper wishbones and rear upper suspension links so you can change camber when you come to dial the geometry in. IMO a well dialed in Esprit with the best tyres and good brakes is worth more than 50 extra HP. Rest is pretty standard.
Great advice again Jonathan. I can tell you are in the "been there, down that" in the research and thought already. I appreciate the wisdom shared. In regards to to what to do with the chassis for cleanup vs powder coat you are very convincing in the logic.
Locknuts are a preferred method for areas that are very hard to access, it keeps the item from coming loose. If a lock washer does come loose, it will spin off easy. On the airplane I am building Locknuts are preferred for all areas that are not "Critical flight controls" in which case we use castle nuts with cotter pins.
Also some seriously cool cars in the parade.
That makes complete sense Joey. I was also thinking for the fibreglass the bolts can’t be torqued to what is a normal spec as it will damage it. In that case lock washers would possibly shake loose easier.
Thank you so much for the feedback on the car cruise sequence at the end. I like to know what people like to see so I can keep providing what they are interested in seeing.
I worked in aerospace and split lock washers were not considered effective fastener retention for use on aircraft. The nylon locknuts are far more effective, particularly under vibration. The Brits seem to like the nylon locknuts, as my late sixties Jag has a lot of them.
@@fafner1 your comment flagged some further research on the aerospace industry and specifications for locknuts. Thanks for leading me there. I found it very informative on the hardware code for aircraft.
There are products made to restore galvanized metal surfaces for industrial uses. I would test those first before I would think about powder coating or epoxy.
Thank you for the feedback asennad. Any product you favour?
Use the locknuts. Check what cams and ECU you have. Personally, I don't believe in doing many upgrades to an older car. Good luck.
The more info I receive the more I understand the sense in lock nuts. They will be used again in reassembly - just new ones! I agree in doing only tasteful upgrades, if any, on a such classic cars.
Got the same car as you, also decided chargecooler is to much of a hassle to fit. I've decided to go for meth injection. Much simpler, and will cool the charge dramatically. Just make sure to fill the reservoir. I have also decided to install aftermarked EFI, the carbs are turbo is much of a risc I think. Too easy to melt a piston.
I agree with too much hassle making the changes for a chargecooler. I do have the early Delco injection in mine. I am curious what aftermarket EFI you are going with and what amount of extra power you plan to add assuming stock internals.
@@SlippingTime KMS I'd the one I will go for. I have Haltech on my Maserati and am pretty pleased about that too. 280-300hp should be available with meth injection on stock internals. In Europe the 1988 where carbed. New injection systems are much easier to debug if anything is wrong.
Great information Jarie to share with us. All the best with your changeover. From my research I think you should be safe at those power levels.
Apart from their anti loosening properties, nylon nuts help to prevent moisture travelling along the threads and causing corrosion - you should notice this when removing them! Of course your climate is probably much drier than Ireland and this may not be a problem in either case……
Your chassis looks like it should clean up like new - really think blasting and powder coating would be a retrograde step……
I’m probably not the best person to comment on mad modifications (I prefer the more instant response and linear power of the normally aspirated engines) but Lotus most powerful 912 engined production car had “only”300bhp and had uprated bearings charge cooler and possibly additional webbing on the block (which was always a bit bendy….). A guy called Chamberlain had endurance racing Esprit’s of this era making 400 - 450bhp your side of the pond. Must have been using racing gearboxes such as Hewland as this is well beyond the tolerance of the Renault box.
If you want to drive on track, buy a single seater racing car….even a “meagre” formula Ford. A scalpel compared to a Stanley knife and not much slower unless track has long straights…..
Thanks David for the great feedback. Another positive reason for nylon nuts for sure. From my gut and what I am hearing I need to do my best in cleaning up the chassis rather than cover it with any coating. I hear that loud and clear so far. Yes we are drier over in my location but not immune to environment decaying cars. I hear you on the power level feedback. If the stock turbo is good I will stick with it although might try to up the boost very mildly.
Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts.
Making any progress?
I wish. Lol. I have been focused on some other projects and to get a few things out of the way for space. Summer is here now and slowing my shop time a bit more too. The plan hasn’t changed for the car and I will keep on going with it for sure. Thanks for asking Errol!
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Powdercoating is overrated, prone to cracking and chipping, a Coat or two of epoxi is cheaper and way better.
You have a good point Jonas. Thank you for the comment.