I believe that you might be work hardening the copper... as you work copper it becomes much harder as the molecules become more aligned and closer together. Great video! Thank you
Hi and Thank you for showing how is down in proper way. As I don’t know much I wonder is it not much better to use a batt lap in the first place which is much harder surfaces?
There’s a lot of laps on the market and no one can use all of them, so at the end you will use the laps that works better and fast for you, also it will depends on the material you’re cutting, with the copper lap I use it sometimes, I also use Corian laps that I make myself. Bottom line don’t buy a lot of laps just the necessary ones to start.
Great Instructional video. I do have one question, do you smooth the corundum before you use it? Yours looks polished. Thank you again for a much needed video.
I'm glad to be of help and thanks for watching my videos. Due to a problem with google, I can't upload amymore videos into this channel so I created a new one under "Elie Ghanime" . Please go to my new TH-cam channel and subscribe in order to see my new uploaded videos. Thanks!
I'm curious which model of Graves machine you have there. I have a Graves that looks almost identical to yours accept the bowl around the lap is monolithic with the rest of the machine base. Also my water bottle is on the opposite end of the base. Otherwise, they look the same. As far as I know, my machine is a Mk 1 but it could be a Mk 2 "IF" such a thing exists. I've never heard of one. Only 1, 3, 4 and 5 ... surely there must be a Mk 2 but I simply have never seen one.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Perhaps an explanation as to why you are working from the inside out would be in order so nobody wrecks a copper plate. Are you aware that #M's Scotch Bright comes in several cuts or grits. I still see circular striation lines in the copper, is it not best to remove all you can of those? Thank you, Bill
Hello, Sir, I think, your videos seriously stands out in front of others.. As a person who's thinking to start business like cutting gemstones, not diamonds, I would like to ask you a question.. Many people, in modern days in Europe, think that cutting diamonds skills are not diserable any more because skills takes years, equipment is very expensive, no apprentice really and (now) machines do all the job in India and other Asian places.. What do you think, is there a place for new cutters to make a living out of your profession in future?.. I understand that this is very wide subject, big knowledge and experience, contacts may be needed but I think also that there is a number of jewellers and jewellery making people, who would like to re-cut old stones, to modern designs, and they got nobody to do that... Is it worth it to invest, learn and practice to be a gem cutter in future, is there a real market to buy, cut and sell diamonds with profit in 5, 10, 20, 30 years in future, or maybe it's something "always desired" by the market?..
The answer is NO, first lets forget about diamonds, it has its own market, buyers and suppliers plus the equipment are more expensive. Color stones are easy to acquire and cut, the problem is too much competition from overseas like China and India, the majority of stones are cut for CT weight, therefore they’re not cut to the proper RI angles so the quality and meet-points are not there, most ordinary consumers wouldn’t know the difference plus they’re looking for the cheapest price. On the other hand, you can start cutting as a hobby, so don’t quit your daily job ☺, Feel the market, build your clientele, jewelry stores if you can and see how it goes from there. In couple of weeks I’ll be giving a faceting class, the first thing I tell my students is not to go crazy and buy everything on the market because someone said it’s good, you can get a half decent machine and few essential cutting and polishing laps to start with, then you can go from there, at the beginning you will probably sell your stones to friends and family and maybe it will pay for your equipment, eventually you may make a dollar or two to pay for the rough stones and any other expenses. However, like I mentioned before, if you build your clientele and you start making some profit, make sure that you can support yourself and your family if you’re married, at the same time you have to be damn good at it, speed and quality plays a big factor on this. I hope this answers your questions and I wish good luck.
@@EgJewels Thank You for quick answer, I appreciate it. "Buyers and suppliers" sounds like closed, very tight and "not for all" market.. I live in UK, I'm not British and I just found that rough (only diamonds) are prohibited, restricted goods to import here and I wonder why.. Is it for "choosen" only, or, they try to protect someone's business? I don't know.. Stones have to come in here somehow.. Unless they are cut in Antwerp, Belgium, European capital for diamonds and only sell here.. Market with faceting machines, (except looking poor, Ebay machines, for couple hundreds $ from China..), doesn't really exist, no second hand staff. I regret very much.. My machine, new Ultra Tec, (only one I found!, (currently) in stock) is nearly 6K € plus additional equipment.. Machine is in France and Brexit is coming at the end of March - nightmare.. You said speed and quality is a big factor. It is, it's time consuming job and have to be accurate, no place for mistake. But, I have to start somewhere and I know that this will cost my time, effort, money.. There's loads of materials on internet about "how to" but really sometimes is better to talk face to face, show something, discuss, and fact that (virtually) there's no people interested in that subject doesn't make my life easy.. Any way, thank you very much for your help. I hope I'll cut colour gems one day and think twice before touch diamond - except fine grade polish paste or powder ;) I'll observe market, build relations, net of contacts, go to shows, exhibitions.. I was wonder, maybe go to Asia (say, "for holiday" to wife😆) to get some stones cheaper🤔?.. All the best, thanks again.
Great share thank you! Is there a faceting machine/model you would recommend for a beginner to start? (Afford-ability is my first thought unfortunately) I have faceted on piece of quartz at my club in Tucson,,but now I am in New England and may need my own machine to continue
@@zentpermata I like ceramic because I can change the diamond grit if I want to, just wash the lap with soap and water then add the new diamond, the only thing the ceramic lap is hard to use at the beginning but once you get used to it it’s easy.
Hello ,i have a question about faceting large stones (more then 20 ct) i have a problem with just pear shape. when i cut larger stones , based on the diagram when I get to the edge(to ward the top) of stones I can not finish it,(they are not much)and I do not have this problem with the small stones. I do not know how to apply the diagram on large stones, or changing the angles. i think there is something wrong! I have never taken any faceting classes, I ave learned everything just by reading the books, watching the videos and asking question from others. would you please help me?Thanks
+matt kermani It will good if I can see the diagram you're working with and the area you are having problem with, if you can send me some pictures it will also help.
thanks for your fast response , I do not now how to send you the pictures on youtube comment, but i used this book(" introduction to midpoint faceting" by Robert H.Long and Norman W.Steele)
+OstazFarid El Atrash After you charge the lap with diamond, you don't use any powder like curium oxide, the diamond will do the work, all you have to do is use water drip while you're polishing.
No I did not Jason, so I can't comment on that. However, if you have access to the material you should try it just to see if it will work, in my opinion the cast-iron is dirty material, what I mean by that is when you machine it everything turns black your hands, your face, the machine and everything around you, the reason for that is the shavings that comes out it's like powder, so I don't think it's a good material for laps.
Eg Jewels thank you for your answer. I only have it in paste form so i have to go with it. Unfortunately there is no store in my local area where i could go and buy things for lapitary. I have to order it over the internet and the shipping takes a long time... I will try it with the paste like you did with the powder and will see if it will work
Eg Jewels so, like i said i used paste instead of powder. I did it like you (burnishing, washing, scotch bride, etc.) But in my case, i do not needed olive oil at First for charging the paste onto the Cooper lap because the paste is allready a little bit oily/damp, if you take olive oil Form the beginning it gets too oily and the paste wont stay in place while the lap rotates or it dissolves itselfe. I have done it with a bearing and a good amount of pressure, i only used the olive oil after a little time when it got a bit dry. After cleaning it with wd40 and a tissue i tried to polish my first facets and it looks like it worked. Need to polish different stones to see better results.
I have been looking for you for. Long time. I saw your video for making a geode clamp but I don’t have the equipment to do that kind of work. Would you be able to make me a set (large & small) of those clamps? I would appreciate it very much if you could. I bought a set from another guy but they were so poorly designed and made I couldn’t use them. Yours were much better designed and made. Please and thank you. Best regards. M. Herrick. If you would send me your phone no. I would like very much to talk to you.
Hi thank you very useful for a beginner, how about fine sand paper, please let me know.
I believe that you might be work hardening the copper... as you work copper it becomes much harder as the molecules become more aligned and closer together. Great video! Thank you
thank you for this technique. i have a copper lap but never used it. what stones do i use it for?
Hi and Thank you for showing how is down in proper way. As I don’t know much I wonder is it not much better to use a batt lap in the first place which is much harder surfaces?
There’s a lot of laps on the market and no one can use all of them, so at the end you will use the laps that works better and fast for you, also it will depends on the material you’re cutting, with the copper lap I use it sometimes, I also use Corian laps that I make myself. Bottom line don’t buy a lot of laps just the necessary ones to start.
Great Instructional video. I do have one question, do you smooth the corundum before you use it? Yours looks polished. Thank you again for a much needed video.
Thanks for your technique I followed it exactly and got good results polishing a spinel.
I'm glad to be of help and thanks for watching my videos. Due to a problem with google, I can't upload amymore videos into this channel so I created a new one under "Elie Ghanime" . Please go to my new TH-cam channel and subscribe in order to see my new uploaded videos. Thanks!
Copper lap y estaño lap is very word in tha shine stone
Hi thank you very useful, how about very fine sandpaper.
Thank you for the beautiful video.!
Thank you Jan for watching.
What is the advantage of a copper lap over say, a ceramic or aluminum lap?
What grit you would use maximum on a copper lap?
Thank you for sharing! I learned a lot. Keep up the great work.
Thank you Zane and sorry for the late reply.
Fantastic advice thank you..
I'm curious which model of Graves machine you have there.
I have a Graves that looks almost identical to yours accept the bowl around the lap is monolithic with the rest of the machine base. Also my water bottle is on the opposite end of the base. Otherwise, they look the same. As far as I know, my machine is a Mk 1 but it could be a Mk 2 "IF" such a thing exists. I've never heard of one. Only 1, 3, 4 and 5 ... surely there must be a Mk 2 but I simply have never seen one.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Perhaps an explanation as to why you are working from the inside out would be in order so nobody wrecks a copper plate. Are you aware that #M's Scotch Bright comes in several cuts or grits. I still see circular striation lines in the copper, is it not best to remove all you can of those? Thank you, Bill
Hello,
Sir, I think, your videos seriously stands out in front of others..
As a person who's thinking to start business like cutting gemstones, not diamonds, I would like to ask you a question..
Many people, in modern days in Europe, think that cutting diamonds skills are not diserable any more because skills takes years, equipment is very expensive, no apprentice really and (now) machines do all the job in India and other Asian places..
What do you think, is there a place for new cutters to make a living out of your profession in future?..
I understand that this is very wide subject, big knowledge and experience, contacts may be needed but I think also that there is a number of jewellers and jewellery making people, who would like to re-cut old stones, to modern designs, and they got nobody to do that...
Is it worth it to invest, learn and practice to be a gem cutter in future, is there a real market to buy, cut and sell diamonds with profit in 5, 10, 20, 30 years in future, or maybe it's something "always desired" by the market?..
The answer is NO, first lets forget about diamonds, it has its own market, buyers and suppliers plus the equipment are more expensive.
Color stones are easy to acquire and cut, the problem is too much competition from overseas like China and India, the majority of stones are cut for CT weight, therefore they’re not cut to the proper RI angles so the quality and meet-points are not there, most ordinary consumers wouldn’t know the difference plus they’re looking for the cheapest price.
On the other hand, you can start cutting as a hobby, so don’t quit your daily job ☺, Feel the market, build your clientele, jewelry stores if you can and see how it goes from there.
In couple of weeks I’ll be giving a faceting class, the first thing I tell my students is not to go crazy and buy everything on the market because someone said it’s good, you can get a half decent machine and few essential cutting and polishing laps to start with, then you can go from there, at the beginning you will probably sell your stones to friends and family and maybe it will pay for your equipment, eventually you may make a dollar or two to pay for the rough stones and any other expenses. However, like I mentioned before, if you build your clientele and you start making some profit, make sure that you can support yourself and your family if you’re married, at the same time you have to be damn good at it, speed and quality plays a big factor on this. I hope this answers your questions and I wish good luck.
@@EgJewels Thank You for quick answer, I appreciate it.
"Buyers and suppliers" sounds like closed, very tight and "not for all" market..
I live in UK, I'm not British and I just found that rough (only diamonds) are prohibited, restricted goods to import here and I wonder why..
Is it for "choosen" only, or, they try to protect someone's business?
I don't know.. Stones have to come in here somehow..
Unless they are cut in Antwerp, Belgium, European capital for diamonds and only sell here..
Market with faceting machines, (except looking poor, Ebay machines, for couple hundreds $ from China..), doesn't really exist, no second hand staff.
I regret very much..
My machine, new Ultra Tec, (only one I found!, (currently) in stock) is nearly 6K € plus additional equipment..
Machine is in France and Brexit is coming at the end of March - nightmare..
You said speed and quality is a big factor.
It is, it's time consuming job and have to be accurate, no place for mistake.
But, I have to start somewhere and I know that this will cost my time, effort, money..
There's loads of materials on internet about "how to" but really sometimes is better to talk face to face, show something, discuss, and fact that (virtually) there's no people interested in that subject doesn't make my life easy..
Any way, thank you very much for your help.
I hope I'll cut colour gems one day and think twice before touch diamond - except fine grade polish paste or powder ;)
I'll observe market, build relations, net of contacts, go to shows, exhibitions..
I was wonder, maybe go to Asia (say, "for holiday" to wife😆) to get some stones cheaper🤔?..
All the best, thanks again.
how to clean ceramic lap? IF you can please Thank you.
Cleaning ceramic lap is very simple, just use water and soap to remove any diamond grit and after you can apply the new diamond.
@@ElieGhanimeEG Thank you so much for your information I really appreciate it , and thank you for your time may god bless you.!
Do you only burnish the copper lap one time, or do you repeat this process at some interval?
Great share thank you! Is there a faceting machine/model you would recommend for a beginner to start? (Afford-ability is my first thought unfortunately) I have faceted on piece of quartz at my club in Tucson,,but now I am in New England and may need my own machine to continue
+Sean Baker
A Graves machine like the one in this video it's a good starter, you probably can fined a used one on Ebay.
Is the fising using copper good, sir?
Yes you can. However, I use Corian lap or Ceramic lap.
@@EgJewels
which is better copper or ceramic
@@zentpermata I like ceramic because I can change the diamond grit if I want to, just wash the lap with soap and water then add the new diamond, the only thing the ceramic lap is hard to use at the beginning but once you get used to it it’s easy.
What kind of plate is this do you run faces on it?
Really Informative!!
GOOD Video!!
Thank You!!
thank you for the video, is it the same way for a tin lap ?
No, with the tin lap you don't have to burnish the surface.
Hello ,i have a question about faceting large stones (more then 20 ct) i have a problem with just pear shape. when i cut larger stones , based on the diagram when I get to the edge(to ward the top) of stones I can not finish it,(they are not much)and I do not have this problem with the small stones. I do not know how to apply the diagram on large stones, or changing the angles. i think there is something wrong! I have never taken any faceting classes, I ave learned everything just by reading the books, watching the videos and asking question from others. would you please help me?Thanks
+matt kermani
It will good if I can see the diagram you're working with and the area you are having problem with, if you can send me some pictures it will also help.
thanks for your fast response , I do not now how to send you the pictures on youtube comment, but i used this book(" introduction to midpoint faceting" by Robert H.Long and Norman W.Steele)
+matt kermani
You can email me the pictures, my email address is
Eg.theRockman@gmail.com
okay i will thank you so much
okay please check your e-mail ,i sent some pics to you.Thank you so much
thanks..but how to clean lap and remove powder after faceting?
+OstazFarid El Atrash
After you charge the lap with diamond, you don't use any powder like curium oxide, the diamond will do the work, all you have to do is use water drip while you're polishing.
i have 1 polishing zinc lap..can i use it with 8000,14000,50000 diamond powder and cerium oxide..in deferent time?
+OstazFarid
No, each lap must have one diamond grit ONLY.
thanks... but can use 2 side in 1 lap ..every side for 1 kind of grit?..because the zinc lap have 2 side...?
I wouldn't do that, because you could have contamination between the grits.
Thank you!
Thanking you for your great video.
I'm glad you like the videos and thank you for subscribing today.
What kind of olive oil? Thanks
Eg Jewels thank you
Have you worked with cast iron? Do you know the difference?
No I did not Jason, so I can't comment on that. However, if you have access to the material you should try it just to see if it will work, in my opinion the cast-iron is dirty material, what I mean by that is when you machine it everything turns black your hands, your face, the machine and everything around you, the reason for that is the shavings that comes out it's like powder, so I don't think it's a good material for laps.
Thank you for your answer. Your explanation makes sense. I may try and stick a copper sheet to my iron lap if the process creates that much of a mess.
What if i have the diamonds not in powder but in paste Form? Did i need to ad this oil as well?
I don't recommend paste for this application, I mainly use paste for polishing star sapphire or for polishing faceted stones on corian laps.
Eg Jewels thank you for your answer. I only have it in paste form so i have to go with it. Unfortunately there is no store in my local area where i could go and buy things for lapitary. I have to order it over the internet and the shipping takes a long time... I will try it with the paste like you did with the powder and will see if it will work
Eg Jewels so, like i said i used paste instead of powder. I did it like you (burnishing, washing, scotch bride, etc.) But in my case, i do not needed olive oil at First for charging the paste onto the Cooper lap because the paste is allready a little bit oily/damp, if you take olive oil Form the beginning it gets too oily and the paste wont stay in place while the lap rotates or it dissolves itselfe. I have done it with a bearing and a good amount of pressure, i only used the olive oil after a little time when it got a bit dry. After cleaning it with wd40 and a tissue i tried to polish my first facets and it looks like it worked. Need to polish different stones to see better results.
How do you bond copper to aluminium? Just glue it? Or something metallurgical?
Thank you. I guess epoxy provides a flexible enough interface to provide for the differing thermal expansion between the two metals.
Explosive welding!
@@aubreyaub keee
I've been using copper lap exclusively for the last 20 years and don't do any of that.
Thank you,i am appreciate you
+matt kermani You are welcome Matt, I hope this will help you.
+Eg Jewels yes,it was very useful.Thanks again
I have been looking for you for. Long time. I saw your video for making a geode clamp but I don’t have the equipment to do that kind of work. Would you be able to make me a set (large & small) of those clamps? I would appreciate it very much if you could. I bought a set from another guy but they were so poorly designed and made I couldn’t use them. Yours were much better designed and made. Please and thank you. Best regards. M. Herrick. If you would send me your phone no. I would like very much to talk to you.
this is the old way, the new easy way is buy the sheets of diamond coated films and stick it on the wheel don't have to be copper.