Tony Ordered A New BMW M2! Options & Costs Revealed [S6, E12]
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00:22 My GT3 is in the country!
06:38 Porsche make the most unreliable cars?
16:19 Masterworks - www.masterwork...
19:03 The F Pace SVR edition 1988?
27:26 Our snow driving stories
37:37 Is Tony getting a new M2!?
49:30 BMW now CHARGE for a manual!
52:23 X3 M40i or X3 M40d?
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Sam - As a certified Porsche technician, my #1 piece of advice for reliability on your 992 GT3 is DO NOT have an oil change performed with the engine hot. Drop the car off for service the night before so the oil is relatively cool when it's drained.
The new GT3 engine uses a plastic oil tank and there is an issue where the threads for the drain can get ruined if you try to remove the drain plug when the oil is hot.
If the threads on the tank get ruined, the engine has to come out to replace the oil tank. Porsche has a document out about it, and I've unfortunately already seen it happen (customer had oil change done at another shop)
Do you understand why the 991 GT3 had 3 drain plugs to remove for an oil change, but the 992 GT3 has the 3 drain plugs in the same locations, but only 2 plugs get removed? Also on the 992 GT3 only around 4 quarts of oil normally gets removed on an oil change, instead of around 8 quarts on the 991 GT3. Do you understand the reasons behind the change from 991 to 992?
@@carlfrederick8433 If you are following the factory workshop manual you only remove 2 drain plugs for both the 991 and 992. Which 2 you remove on a 991 depend on if it's a 991.1 991.2
The 4 liters of oil that drain out of the 992 engine is certainly a big change. We measured the amount we drained out of the first 992 GT3 we worked on to make sure the service specs weren't incorrect.
My guess would be that they wanted to run a smaller oil tank on the 992. They did the same thing when they moved from 997 to 991 (designed it with a smaller oil tank). Likely for space and weight savings.
My best guess with the 992 is that you only get 4ish litres out because it's got a small oil tank and the rest stays in cooler assemblies, oil passages, etc.
That seems CRAZY Porsche would make a engineering failure like this to save weight.
The RS6 in the snow is definitely a tyre issue. We have snow and as low as -11 degrees here in Denmark right now and my little Up GTI on winter tyres has had no issue getting around on snow covered roads. The RS6 (especially with it's quattro system) would be fine on the right tyres. CarWow have done some good comparisons on winter vs. summer tyres, the difference in traction is huge in snowy conditions.
It's absolutely a tyre thing, you need winters or at least all weathers for snow. Summer tyres just aren't built for snow it's a hazard. I like watching the Tyre Reviews youtube channel
Why do range rovers handle any conditions with normal tyres then
@@SH7SH7SH7 trucks and SUVs tend to have all season tires which are not great/not terrible in all conditions, but the performance summer tires will definitely suck during winter, even the twisted UK version of it. It’s not only about snow and ice, it’s also about temperature. Winter tires are made of a different, much softer rubber.
The regular P Zeros would become hard, plastic-like if you used them below 5°C.
When Tony told Sam he's going to ruin the car for putting Pirelli's 🤣
The zoom in on his face is 👌
Mate I repeat DO NOT attempt to drive that car with delivery tyres in even 1CM of snow. You'll literally not be able to move. We've already had two binned because of it.
I would highly recommend the winter tyre
No. Get snow tires. They make a difference. P zeros are nothing like what you actually need in the winter, especially when your car costs 150k
Yes Sam I would get a set of winter tyres for your GT3 - you’d be mad to risk a £170k car driving round on winter roads on summer P Zero tyres in the U.K. As for abroad, winter tyres are mandatory in countries such as Austria from 1st November to 15th April, and with minimum 4mm tread. Calling P Zero “all season ish” at 4:24 is simply not true, it is very much a summer tyre. Also yes Land Rovers are fitted with ‘all season’ tyres as standard, so of course they will be better than an RS6 on summer tyres, but they do not have the 3 peak mountain snowflake symbol, so still won’t be as good as dedicated winter tyres. Note the dedicated all season road car tyres such as the Michelin CrossClimate 2 do have the 3PMSF, so are classed as a full winter tyre.
I can highly recommend Michelin cross climate for year round use
I live in Switzerland and hearing you two expect to go anywhere uphill on snow without proper tyres is hilarious.
It somehow explains the chaos on our mountains roads whenever snow comes. Usually lots of Yellow & Dutch plates stuck. :-)
Sam,as an Austrian,we have a winter tires compulsory until April,so you definitely need winter tires in your Gt3 if you want to enjoy our mountain Passes!
Greetings from Vienna!!
That is correct. This also is the case in Germany and Switzerland and northern Italy, Dolomites
The same here in Sweden.
Pirelli make a dedicated winter p zero set in the correct size for the GT3, so given your pirelli connections I would highly recommend ordering up a set!
For a couple of old boys who claim to auto experts your knowledge of tires is shocking! To think an RS6, on pretty well road going track tires (ps4 level), is ludicrous. You should educate yourselves on tires before saying a particular car is poor in the snow. The RS6 on something like a Cross Climate 2 would have been unstoppable on icey roads. The large tread chunks on a sporty tire will not have the malleability to provide grip on snow.
I tried to drive on snow with PS4s on my daily. Could’nt get off the drive, so swapped to my Cross Climates and off I went. All season tires are only any good in the snow, poor in the wet for example, but are bloody handy for that week it snows!
Winter tyres on a RS6 you would go anywhere on snow.
Just as I set my bottom down and lift my phone for lunch this gem lands 💪. Must be Thursday.
Yep at work eating a microwave lasagne watching tha pod :)
@@snakewad123 this show helps digestion I find 😁
@@GazMoby I'm 29 had the same Renault clio since I was 16. After years of watching stg , I'm finally about to buy a new car 😂 167k miles it did with no major faults other than a new cam belt
I’m sorry but you guys are so off on RS6 and snow. Come to the states. See them blasting around mountain roads with 12 plus inches of snow and them being on rails. It’s all about the drive and tires. And no a Range Rover ain’t getting through it. Audis 4 wheel drive system is incredible.
Believe it or not, summer tires don't work in the snow. You're going to fling off a mountain, Sam.
You both seem pretty clueless re the benefits of winter tyres, and especially when combined with narrow rims. I've seen plenty of Range Rovers/high end SUV's in alpine ditches due to their summer tyres. And not just for snow as they're way better on UK roads in the winter. I get a used set of rims for the winter tyres and run 'em from Nov to April so apart the initial cost of the rims (which will keep their value) your tyre cost over time is no different as your summer tyres then last twice as long.
The RS6 not able to go up a hill is 100% down to tires. It doesn’t matter that it’s 4wd if the rubber being spun isn’t meant for the road conditions. Summer tires have a temperature range as well, if it gets too cold (like in the winter) they’ll get too hard and won’t grip. The Range Rover scenario described is down to tires, it’s probably on all seasons. If a Range Rover was on summer tires it wouldn’t be able to make it up the hill either.
Sounds like Tony needs winter driving lessons
and a lesson on what a difference winter tyres make...
My X5 is a totally different car with it's winter wheels on it, which is why I have two sets of wheels.
You need winter tires to drive in snow. In Sweden it's law to have winter tires between 1 December and 1 april
Gt3 will be sold within a year max.
Agree. He's not even excited about it.
I kind of wonder if he will keep it for even a few months. Car Market is crashing and he's known for being a bit rash. He's buying at the top of a crumbling market. It would be really foolish if he sold right away, but he needs to either not take delivery(if that's an option) or hold on to that car until the market bounces back in 3-5 years.
I’d give it six months. The GT3 market is already softening fast, and this isn’t a press car.
@@TheShootingBrake it’s still worth 100k more than what he will pay for it so to not take delivery is foolish. He will keep it for a bit as he hyped it up and he won’t get another one from Porsche if he sells it quick.
He would not buy the car if he knew he would lose money on it. That I’m sure about.
do a video on the roma with Tony before he flogs it!
The hike in M2 money is great news for the older M2's. The depreciation curve on the earlier gen, 2015-21, is going to flatten out a bit cause of the new price point. A 2019 with lowish miles is looking quite sweet.
Awd hardly does anything if you're using summer tires. That conversation was ridiculous...I guess that's the uninformed part of the podcast 😅
In the uk probably 90% of tyres on sale are summer tyres but half the cars are suvs!
Audi Q7 with Good Year snow tires here in the nastiest, coldest spot in the lower 48 states, 8,400 feet in the heart of the Rockies. This is a GREAT snow/tow car and I've driven it in the nastiest blizzards with confidence. Pulled my Go trailer on many camp trips overland. Great car.
Porsche reliability problems = Taycan. Come on Sam + Tony, you should know this 🙂
As a Swede we get lots of snow and cold. Winter tires is the only thing helping you trough winter! If you have good tires you can go anywhere in any car, so the rant about Audis and bmws that can’t get through winter with summer tires is just a laugh lol
Harry's garage has probably put 3000 miles on his already by now.
here in Finland its mandatory to have winter tyres after 31st November. i have two sets of alloys, the original ones for summer tyres and aftermarket for winter tyres...
I think Sam and Tony need to get a tire expert on the podcast to teach them about winter driving lol. None of the tires they mention in this episode are supposed to work under 0 degrees. PS4S and other similar tires are legitimately dangerous in the snow
Most of the Europe have laws that you must have winter tires on your car starting November/December and it is also common sense (at least to me) especially on a powerful car like gt3.
You do not need special rims for winter tyres.
Any normal 2wd car with winter cars will be far better than any 4wd car in normal tyres. Range rover included.
Myself, my sister and my boss all owned a Audi with the newer generation infotainment system. All of us had problems with it. Biggest problem was phones never connecting and getting random black screens. My boss actually had them put a new ECM into his Q8, but the problem never got fixed. I also previously owned a last generation Audi and never had these problems. Overall the system worked much better. What Tony is saying about them switching to in house software is 100% correct.
VAG used to have Panasonic systems until a couple of years ago. They may get better but the ID and new golf have had issues
Living in Switzerland, we always change our tires/wheels according to the season. O bis O, (October to Easter) we have winter tires fitted. Please remember that winter tires are not snow tires. These are tires that manage the cold (Softer rubber suited to temperatures under 7 C) and additional water/snow/ice. On my X5 I have set of wheels that get changed, but on my 911 GTS they fit the tires onto the centrelock wheels. (The wheels cost 4 grand each, so expensive to have a separate set of wheels) I don't know the specific regulations, but I can't imagine you would get away without winter tires in Europe. (Definitely not in Germany, Switzerland, Austria)
As someone who spends a lot of time in Swedish skiiresorts, RS6s, X5Ms, X3Ms, Panameras and Cayennes, all of them cruise around in -20 and huge amounts of snow. All wearing winter tires since its the law during winter in Sweden. So, definitely a tire thing!!
Land Rover/Range Rover put all season tyres on from the factory which is why they are more capable off-road from new.
I won't buy another McLaren because the 570s electrical issues were so bad if porsche goes down the same road, oih not good.
We bought two Taycans earlier this year. They were both sold back to Porsche at 4months and 6 months old respectively due to major problems. I replaced mine with a Ferrari FF in which I drive 800-1000 miles a month. So far my Ferrari has been spot on. I will never buy another Porsche, mainly due to their inability to deal with the issues, not the actual issues themselves.
Yes it’s often the dealer experience that stays with you
Another great episode
Many thanks for the fun and laughter Tony and Sam
Put a range rover with summer tyres Vs rs6 with winters on a hill with snow. Winters all day long
Sam, please ask Tony if he would prefer automatic steering if it were faster on a track. Just to end the discussion over a manual gear box.
Winter tyres are mandatory in most of EU between November and April boys.
It feels like the overall quality and the episodes is going down. I have been a fan since the very beginning of the STG channel, and I really enjoy the arguments. However, recently it looks like there are more and more strong statements related to beliefs but stated as facts. Sure, it is your show, your energy, your time. It is also my time and it feels like it is better spent doing something else, unfortunately.
22:12
I'm not being a dick and I'm not taking the piss but what happens to Sam's voice here? I'm genuinely curious because he does it a lot. Is he trying to suppress a yawn or like not be sick or something.
Again not trying to be mean
Sam don't be tempted to go to Sheerness to take a peek. It's like a 19th century penal colony and they'll serve you up for brekky.
In Quebec, winter tires are compulsory between December 1 and March 15, though it's a good idea to keep them on until the first or second week of April given our often long and brutal winters.
I can highly recommend Michelin Cross Climate for year round use. Nearly all cars have summer tyres so as soon as you get to freezing they’re useless. And the tread is deeper so they last longer too!
How can Tony forget about the 991.1 gt3 engine reliability disaster !!
Winter Tyres
In Germany, when you buy a new car, you get a factory deal on an extra set of winter tyres and rims. The dealer looks after them for you and swaps them over as required.
In the UK, and much of Europe, we need tyres designed for the -15C to +15C range; these can be driven faster on the Autobahn than the "happislappies", which work best in low temperatures.
Even in the UK, it is a good idea to have winter tyres because normal tyres have sidewalls and tread that goes hard when the temperature drops. Some of us have three sets, winter, spring/autumn and summer(semi-slick)
I'm not keen on levering tyres on and off rims, it can get brutal. Winters should, ideally be on narrower rims.
You need winter tires if you drive when the temperature is below zero degrees. Pzero are no good below 7 degrees.
Absolutely loved this episode. Totally agree. The SVR f Pace is totally overlooked and is such a shame because it’s stunning.
I would have this over the Range Rover svr anyday and save a ton of money
Not using winter tires during winter? For 2 certified car-nuts to imply this is a little worrying, if I’m honest.
Exactly what I thought.
I cannot believe what I heard! 😮
Can’t wait to hear their winter tire review in the summer. I bet they’ll say they suck too.
Winter tyres or chains are obligatory in Italy until 15th April.
All Land rover products run all season tyres as standard where the German brands have sports tyres so tyres definitely make a difference.
34:53 Why does Sam sound like a cute old white lady 😂😂😂
Isn’t the new M2 8-speed auto with a torque converter rather than DCT?
This was one of the best episodes
Love in depth car talk episodes about models etc… my Preference ⭐️
Porsche, McLaren, Aston Martin, Ferrari all seam to have a record of things going wrong on their cars. Lamborghini always are mentioned in group tests as cars that were the only ones not to go wrong.
Could Lamborghini be the most reliable mass Supercar maker?
Lamborghini has the least reliable supercar gearboxes outside of the UK so no
Harry's garage already done both
Noticed his content and up to date car news has gotten quite good this year
Using the main set of wheels to unmount your summers and put on winters agin and agin comes with a risk. You can damage a tire, it can not seal and so on. Get another set of wheels if you get winters. Tires installed once!
adam lz got a brand new 992 turb o s when they first came out had to get the gearbox replaced within the first two weeks because it failed before he even broke in the car.
You ought to ask an Asian man like myself what the term reliability really means. Porsche is not reliable by my definition. It maybe more reliable than a bmw but that is not saying much.
What's being Asian got to do with it?
@@sh-hg4eg we only buy japanese
Hang on, I've had a 2010 model year Cayenne for nearly 12 years now with very few problems. It's on coil springs, not air.
My neighbour got the updated 2015 model and had a few more issues.
I read that the unreliability article was based on average repair bill out of warranty
Finally getting the GT3, does that mean the F-Type is going?
Hopefully not.
Naaaa. Gt3 will be gone in short time ;)
@@zooski1516 yeah but then we will all be shouting at Sam for selling it.
@@AlexTaylor19 I will hold you to your word.
Watching from Gibraltar
I agree with the many comments here about winter tires (or tyres). As F1 fans who understand how tires work with temperatures, and how different hardness of tire compounds need to be brought to the right temperatures, it should be easy to understand how having a tire compound that is designed to work with cold temperatures will make all the difference, not only in cold and wet environments but also in snow. As the only part of the vehicle in contact with the road it is just as important in snowy conditions as all wheel drive vehicles. Most all wheel drive vehicles have open differentials and once a wheel starts slipping all the torque goes to that slipping wheel and all wheel drive looses it's advantage. A winter tire can help stop that wheel from slipping in the first place.
Great episode 👍
Sold my RS6 recently, missing it so badly, was bleeding me dry tho and had to go
Bought new Golf R Performance and not feeling it, for sale soon
Looks like they do make Sottozero3’s in the correct size for Turbo S but different speed rating as per Pirelli’s website.
Haven’t driven it on snow with summers but I’m impressed and have a lot of confidence in my xdrive 335d with winters on 👌
Dam I'm picking up my ford fiesta ST3 today that I ordered a year ago 😭. And here is sam getting a Porsche GT3 in the same year. 😭 Loved the episode by the way.
RS6 on winter tyres will be invincible.
That RS6 in snow issue is all down to the tyres. Watch Quattro snow videos online! RR won't go anywhere on any tyre, tyres make all the difference
The M2 and the Ferrari Prius are on my list next year! I meant Toyota..
Germany its law to fit winter tyres..you want often get a ticket for not having them, but if you crash and dont have them the insurance companies won't pay out...tyre fitters offer a service where they store a second set of wheels fitted with winter rubber for you over the summer, then swap them over for winter..its why you see a lot of German plated cars in winter with shit cheep wheels because everyone has two sets of rims.
Here’s the thing… the manual may be £500 option. But those cars will fetch a £2-3k premium in 10 yrs. you already see this with 987 and 981 cayman/boxters
Lads...RR come on a tyre with a slight bite to them, and RS6 is on a performance road tyre. It's a tyre thing.
Get in touch with powerslidelover he will definitely know about the tyres
To be fair to Aston Martin, my current gen Vantage has had only two issues that it returned to the dealer for, no fuss or problem. 5 years free servicing as well...most of the issues do seem more electrical related to AC, infotainment these days.
Use proper tires! Range rovers have all season tires!
Extract from Land Rover website: All Season Tyres are standard. Summer Tyres, designed for favourable driving conditions, are an option on all wheel sizes except 18". Load index and speed ratings dependent on wheel sizes.
This is the biggest criticism I have for Tony when talking about reliability. He doesn’t sell many cars over 4 years and certainly not many over 50k on the clock. To say engines and gearboxes don’t go bang anymore is just untrue. My local Jag dealer now has a team who are just refitting engines all day because the 2.0 Ingenium range Jag built has been a disaster. BMW last generation of engines all had timing chain problems. Even the old F80 M3 had engine problems. Audi’s still burn oil like no tomorrow. Porsche still have transfer box problems. You guys are never in a car long enough to find out if it has reliability problems.
I only heard about the rs6 in the snow, as a friend sent me the link. I have to say this. NO ranger rover or a defender will get up a snowy up hill on ANY TYRE. Only in snow rated AT tyres and with low range engaged or snow tyres. And thats if..and i m saying that while being a huge defender fan. The rs6 or sq8 sq7 q8 migjt have lsd, but without snow tyres you cant get anywhere and thats to be expected. Comments like that make you look like a complete morron. Tyres are everything on a car. Pirelli P0 are a bad summer tyre for the street, let alone on snow.
I am disappointed with Tony. All Range Rovers come from factory with all season tiers. Audi BMW etc come with summer tiers in the UK.
Do you guys get Subaru Outbacks over there?
I got a 2016 Premium R with the 3.6L, get that instead of the RS6 and invest the rest into paintings 🎨🖌️ 😂
The RS6 would be a monster with proper snow tires on it. Any car can be terrible in the snow with summer performance tires. Tires are EVERYTHING. Put some Pirelli sotto zeros and you're in business.
Yeah get the winder tyres!
Bin the P Zero and fit PS4s ? Transformed my C4s. Ride comfort is improved and no wheel slip. No brainer. Or is this a Pirelli paid plug lol !
Giddy up, Thursday just got better. M2 and GT3 EURO ROADTRIP!!
Hey who’s interested to see the Lamborghini Sian Spider when they eventually unveil it. Even though it’s been completely shown off already lol.
Again ‘the more a manufacturer makes the more problems they will have again is not true.’ The more a manufacturer makes the more instances they have to understand the root cause of an issue and fix it. The more you build the greater the quality and reliability.
Anybody else think the sponsor Masterworks is the next FTX?
It seems winter driving is not their strongest side. Even if the Range Rover will get up somewhere, the braking distance will be the same as for other brands. And if 2 cars crash on snow/ice conditions and just one of them has winter tyres, who will get the blame? It's just not safe to use summer tyres in the winter, no matter how good a driver you are or type of car
Can't help thinking an episode with Jonathan Benson from @tyrereviews would be informative
Correction on the M2 it's not a DCT on the G87. It's a ZF single clutch torque converter auto.....
Tony’s off the mark with the monthlies. New £70k BMW with 10% deposit is £930 a month.
Fantastic episode again as always. One thing please get rid of recast it’s just junk and I can’t justify throwing money into the platform
If you've not seen, take a look at carwow's recent snow drag races featuring various Audis on both summer and winter tyres, very interesting.
Tony “I don’t use fast cars in this country” but I’m currently driving a 600hp RS6😂
Sorry Tony I’m not going to let you have that one Audi Q8 no good in the snow well mine has been unbelievable especially living on a hill once the snow turned to ice up and down all week no problem
Amazing how tony had all the excuses in the world to defend porsche and still manages to dig out Aston and mclaren. 🤔