Mistake #1, using an aluminum ladder. I work for a utility, and we only use non conductive ladders such as wood or fiberglass. At least when they are dry they are non conductive.
Nelson your right. Try to tell that to an apartment complex owner. they probably got the cheapest guy in the city to install the gutters, who obviously wasn't thinking about precautions.
What I would say to a client when developing their H&S Program is "Planning + Preparation = Prevention". For low voltage lines a company can arrange a "diaper" be put on the line by Hydro during their pre-construction or pre-work safety meeting. For high voltage lines, I would tell them (however seemingly inconvenient) that they need to request a temporary shut down and "Assurance of Non Re-close" (ANR) prior to commencing work. There really is a great deal of "pre-coordination" that needed.
The rubber foot is there to prevent the ladder from slipping on smooth surfaces That 1/2 inch thick anti-slip rubber base on the foot of a ladder is not even close to being an effective 14KV insulator
@megagirlyo93 A simple fact about electricity is it will always find the path of least resistance to ground, therefore the man on the aluminum ladder which was connected directly to the ground had much less resistance, it went through him instead of the man on the roof who was standing on a building that has a much higher resistance.
It happened in our town. Two men were putting a sign up on a pole. The first man came in contact with a high voltage line and was electrocuted , the second man tried to help him and was also killed.
this happened to my coworker few days ago. must've been lower voltage because he definitely got the shock and shook around but was able to maintain himself and jump off the ladder onto his feet halfway down. burnt his finger tips and luckily that's all that came out of it. I was the guy on the roof in the video and he was on the ladder. same exact situation displayed
What material was the ladders made out of? It can make a drastic difference. For example aluminum is conductive (like in this incident), woods is not (if not wet). That is why the guy standing on the roof didn't feel anything, while the worker on the ladders got shocked because he was standing on conductive aluminum ladders.
@Testname678 Roof guy wasn't hurt because he provided a high resistance path to ground while the guy on the ladder was low resistance and current always takes the path of least resistance. Otherwise, roof guy might have gotten zapped too--hard to say. Depends on how well insulated he was from ground but obviously much better than a guy on an aluminum ladder.
@ theonlychampion, ropes are a pain in the ass for such things, like when you tie yourself on a roof for security when you work you wind up getting it tangled up or worse tripping over it.. besides having a gutter dangling by a rope in the wind isn't exactly handling wit care. if you scratch the protective coating it will rust.
12,470 volts to be more specific! 10 feet is a good rule of thumb. I have to work with electricity. I know what the high voltage line are, and what they look like. We figure 1 inch to per 1000 volts for "flash over", but when handling long awkward, or cumbersome conductive materials, 10 feet may not be far enough away. A gust of wind, or a kink in the material that makes it fold up, and it can and will go right into the power lines.
Yeah I work for the Spokane PUD this always happens especially with the 240V lines with the aluminum lining between them yeah we've had a lot of deaths with those things I always tell people to be careful with those when there painting or renovating cause those things are real killers.
My brother is IBEW which is the electrical union for both Canada and US. Both Canada and the US share electrical rules, He said at that voltage its a 12 foot rule not 10 feet.
Guy on roof might have been like a bird on a wire since the area there wasn't a good path to ground. However the guy on the latter was. That's why he got shocked and killed. 14kv is nothing to mess with. Always check your surroundings when working near hv lines
Call the utility company and have them come out to sleeve the wires you will be working around. In this case they would have noted the 12,000 volt wires and sleeved them as well. They are more than willing to protect the public and their equipment and provide the service free of charge
@jwboll Sir, I am an electrician and recently taken an OSHA 10 course. Those "Lower Voltagle" lines that have "insulation"? Believe it or not but that "insulation" have ZERO electrical ratings st all. That outer jacket's sole purpose is but to protect the conductive material from incidental contact, nothing else. It is NOT there to insulate any electrical current from whatever may touch it. I was just as suprised as you may be from reading this.
rwastk: An insulated ladder would have prevented a death. The man on the roof would have been insulated by the roofing (unless it was metal) and possibly his footwear. The current does not HAVE to go somewhere; it could have been simply blocked. Using ropes to raise the gutter would have been even wiser. BTW, technically, extrusion is pressing metal through a hole in a die; the gutter was rolled, not extruded.
@smartestmanonnet not always...only if the second electrode of the secondary coil (of the transformer ) is connected to the G, then the first one bedomes the " Live phase" and is active according to the ground ....but......of course you was right anyway !
@cooljitz A steel made ladder? What is this used for? Exercise during working time? People in developed countries would use ladders made from aluminium that also come with thick rubber feet just to prevent what...? Correct: the risk of electric shock.
@camfreak9 I know exactly what you're talking about, I think. Isn't there something that states if a set of power lines is so many feet off of the ground, it isn't required to be insulated?
The guy on roof didn't feel a thing because his body was not grounded. The guy on the metal ladder was and electricity is always trying to go to ground
Probably because he was not grounded. He's standing on a roof, probably on non-conducting shingles, and very likely was wearing gloves (those gutters can have sharp edges.) The other guy was standing on a steel ladder and the gutter was probably in his arms rather than his hands.
I think you missed the point about the safety distance. We're talking about moving large clumsy objects near power lines and keeping a safe distance so you dont accidentally touch the line, not how close it has to be to create an arc.
i think that is because the roof is to good isolated from the earth (there is a materie on it that they burn on the roof (dont know the english word))) but the other one climb on a ladder and he needs one hand to hold the ladder and one hand for the gutter ... and in theory, electricity choose the shortest route to earth with the least resistance ;-)
wouldnt the guy in the middle still feel the gutter gets really hot from resistance heating? either way, the guy who fell didnt die from the fall, he died probably instantly from heart failure.
Upgrading existing overhead infrastructure would cost millions if not billions to replace. I'm sure you would not want to pay for it. Instead workers need to be aware of hazards.
put the power lines underground. thats not happenong . focus should be on safety in this sort of situation. when a contractor first looks at a job he has a resposibility to himself and others to notice if there are powerlines located anywhere within the working area. If so he should inform the property owner that the power co. should be called in to wrap the lines with a shield. doesnt matter who calls as long as the call is made . Safety first. If they had called that man would still be alive.
I wonder if the worker or his family got any compensation at all from wcb? For sure wcb fined and collected cash from the company so they can continue to grow and expand their force and pay and benefits.
@tomerescfc The electricity was looking for the quickest way to a 'perfect' ground. Going through a person, then a not very conductive building? Nah. go through the person, then the aluminum (holy shit people actually still use these?) ladder to the best ground.
Or he had some good rubber soled shoes and rubber gloves? Yes i think they guy on the ladder was carring it with his arms while still holding onto the ladder with his hands so even if he had proper rubber boots and gloves and his legs were not toughing the ladder nor the eve touching the ladder, he might have lived.
Nobody understands looking at the surrounding area and the building doin alot of gutters is actually safer doin it from the roof as long as you have guys that know their limits and you can even go as far as tieing off to an anchor on the ridgecap. I do gutters for a living and i work with guys that witnesses something very similar but the guy was grabbed before fell off the ladder.
that sucks, poor guy died avoiding the "low voltage" lines and they could have used the "low voltage" lines as a support for the gutter and not had any trouble since the low voltage lines are insulated. (like an extension cord) I'm not saying they SHOULD have, just that they could have. Got distracted my a minor danger while the real danger was unnoticed.
That would never happen in Europe. There they don't put high voltage power lines next to houses and stuff. In cities they are underground, in the village areas those are overhead lines, but far away from house roofs. God bless America.
Easily avoidable. I don't understand why people don't make better and consistent use of ropes. This report also makes no mention of fall arrest harnesses. Even if you have nothing on the roof on which to tie yourself, go to the other side of the house and set one eight gallon water jug per worker. (Lash them to the roof rack of the truck for transport, while empty.) Throw a rope onto the roof and tie each man to a job. The inertia of the weight, and friction of the roof will more than half the energy of the impact if a worker falls. For my own work on a roof, I made a harness from a play swing and used bags of mulch to anchor me. Adding to the danger, a worker climbed the ladder while carrying the gutter. What was so difficult about tying twine spanning the length of the gutter, with a loop knot at each end. Then another length of twine three feet from the ends. Each worker could pull up on each end partially screw the gutter before cutting the twine.
Probably, since it seems like the ladder was the connection from the worker to ground. Even with a fiberglass ladder, situational awareness must still be maintained.
@Russellbeta ropes are not going to work on gutter that big they could have avoid this with purches of one more latter motels are hard to do over 45 ft. ropes do not spread out to carry gutter it will turn making bend /must be carried in three four foot sections gutter man
I would have gotten all three guys up on the roof, each holding a rope tied to the gutter, one at the middle, and one at each end and raised it up like that. I would have raised the side by the low voltage wires first until I was comfortable that I had cleared it, then get the other two guys to level it out and then move it to where it needed to go, as I'm pretty sure that that gutter was not meant for that particular eave.
Why bother trying to educate those that wouldn't even seek out such information or even if they were told wouldn't follow. Safety is used more often now as a way to squeeze more money out of us by requiring people to attend courses (read money), that teach things people should already know. A 12kv power line danger zone is only 1.2cm as the breakdown voltage of air is about 1kv per mm. 10 feet recommendation would mean the power line would need to be carry in excess of 300kv!
I hang gutters and first mistake is you walk backwards slowly as the other climbs up the ladder then both walk towards the edge and you can put a rubber stopper or the end of gutter. we do seamless so I carry 40ft pieces by myself up 3story ladders not bragging but cmon he must be new or inexperienced
I've hung gutters for a living and unfortunately most gutter hangers take chances.He's probably did this many times and this time he had a problem.Another problem is most installers are paid by the foot and doing it safely cost them money.
I agree training is a good thing. I currently have no less than 8 certificats of courses that I must carry with me to every job site. BUT, I also think safety regulations are getting so extreme that we are taking a step back. We also have to fill out form upon form up paperwork to ensure we have covered all dangers of the site. Once thats done, what do you think we do? Hurry to make up lost time. It's a losing battle sometimes. Common sense always prevails.
There's also this invention called: String. You can use String, by securing it to the object to be lifted, and then extending it to the target height you are planning on fixing that object. Look it up! One to grow on. Well, 2 out of 3 can grow on that. The other can grow daisy's.
Mistake #1, using an aluminum ladder. I work for a utility, and we only use non conductive ladders such as wood or fiberglass. At least when they are dry they are non conductive.
Nelson your right. Try to tell that to an apartment complex owner. they probably got the cheapest guy in the city to install the gutters, who obviously wasn't thinking about precautions.
What I would say to a client when developing their H&S Program is "Planning + Preparation = Prevention". For low voltage lines a company can arrange a "diaper" be put on the line by Hydro during their pre-construction or pre-work safety meeting. For high voltage lines, I would tell them (however seemingly inconvenient) that they need to request a temporary shut down and "Assurance of Non Re-close" (ANR) prior to commencing work. There really is a great deal of "pre-coordination" that needed.
The rubber foot is there to prevent the ladder from slipping on smooth surfaces That 1/2 inch thick anti-slip rubber base on the foot of a ladder is not even close to being an effective 14KV insulator
@megagirlyo93 A simple fact about electricity is it will always find the path of least resistance to ground, therefore the man on the aluminum ladder which was connected directly to the ground had much less resistance, it went through him instead of the man on the roof who was standing on a building that has a much higher resistance.
It happened in our town. Two men were putting a sign up on a pole. The first man came in contact with a high voltage line and was electrocuted , the second man tried to help him and was also killed.
this happened to my coworker few days ago. must've been lower voltage because he definitely got the shock and shook around but was able to maintain himself and jump off the ladder onto his feet halfway down. burnt his finger tips and luckily that's all that came out of it. I was the guy on the roof in the video and he was on the ladder. same exact situation displayed
What material was the ladders made out of? It can make a drastic difference. For example aluminum is conductive (like in this incident), woods is not (if not wet). That is why the guy standing on the roof didn't feel anything, while the worker on the ladders got shocked because he was standing on conductive aluminum ladders.
Lots of places have overhead lines feeding houses... Except we stopped using overhead feeds in the UK during the late 70s.
@Testname678 Roof guy wasn't hurt because he provided a high resistance path to ground while the guy on the ladder was low resistance and current always takes the path of least resistance. Otherwise, roof guy might have gotten zapped too--hard to say. Depends on how well insulated he was from ground but obviously much better than a guy on an aluminum ladder.
Wow are you kidding me? They reduced the limit by 5 feet, they should make it like 25feet max.
Great video showing the dangers involved and what planning should have been carried out first before starting work.
As always be safe - think - live
Good old Professor Farnsworth looking good since his days in Futurama his time machine must be on the Fritz.
He definitely is a beaut
@ theonlychampion, ropes are a pain in the ass for such things, like when you tie yourself on a roof for security when you work you wind up getting it tangled up or worse tripping over it.. besides having a gutter dangling by a rope in the wind isn't exactly handling wit care. if you scratch the protective coating it will rust.
Twine is easy to tie at the ends and around the corners so they don't slip.
12,470 volts to be more specific! 10 feet is a good rule of thumb. I have to work with electricity. I know what the high voltage line are, and what they look like. We figure 1 inch to per 1000 volts for "flash over", but when handling long awkward, or cumbersome conductive materials, 10 feet may not be far enough away. A gust of wind, or a kink in the material that makes it fold up, and it can and will go right into the power lines.
Yeah I work for the Spokane PUD this always happens especially with the 240V lines with the aluminum lining between them yeah we've had a lot of deaths with those things I always tell people to be careful with those when there painting or renovating cause those things are real killers.
My brother is IBEW which is the electrical union for both Canada and US. Both Canada and the US share electrical rules, He said at that voltage its a 12 foot rule not 10 feet.
Guy on roof might have been like a bird on a wire since the area there wasn't a good path to ground. However the guy on the latter was. That's why he got shocked and killed. 14kv is nothing to mess with. Always check your surroundings when working near hv lines
Peter Willy McJohnsonator dah !!!!!
Wow rest in paradise. He was just hard worker.
Call the utility company and have them come out to sleeve the wires you will be working around. In this case they would have noted the 12,000 volt wires and sleeved them as well. They are more than willing to protect the public and their equipment and provide the service free of charge
they say hard work, never kills anyone......dont take the chance
@jwboll
Sir, I am an electrician and recently taken an OSHA 10 course. Those "Lower Voltagle" lines that have "insulation"? Believe it or not but that "insulation" have ZERO electrical ratings st all. That outer jacket's sole purpose is but to protect the conductive material from incidental contact, nothing else. It is NOT there to insulate any electrical current from whatever may touch it. I was just as suprised as you may be from reading this.
Low voltage lines were insulated!!!
Las lineas de alto voltaje deberían ir bajo tierra.
The high voltage lines should go underground.
after a few funerals people start to get the idea of safety
rwastk: An insulated ladder would have prevented a death. The man on the roof would have been insulated by the roofing (unless it was metal) and possibly his footwear. The current does not HAVE to go somewhere; it could have been simply blocked. Using ropes to raise the gutter would have been even wiser.
BTW, technically, extrusion is pressing metal through a hole in a die; the gutter was rolled, not extruded.
@smartestmanonnet not always...only if the second electrode of the secondary coil (of the transformer ) is connected to the G, then the first one bedomes the " Live phase" and is active according to the ground ....but......of course you was right anyway !
this is in BC - Canada, not the U.S.
the low voltage line are insulated too. always be aware of your surroundings
@cooljitz
A steel made ladder?
What is this used for? Exercise during working time?
People in developed countries would use ladders made from aluminium that also come with thick rubber feet just to prevent what...? Correct: the risk of electric shock.
INteresting and tragic. Thanks for sharing.
@camfreak9 I know exactly what you're talking about, I think. Isn't there something that states if a set of power lines is so many feet off of the ground, it isn't required to be insulated?
Dam that really sucks I'm bummed out
Rest in peace bro he was just doing his job
CPTJDM
how did the guy on the roof not feel anything?
The guy on roof didn't feel a thing because his body was not grounded. The guy on the metal ladder was and electricity is always trying to go to ground
the european countries are much older than Canada, and all power lines are in the ground, and it's much nicer too
Thanks for an interesting video.
Is it allowed with that long ladders in the U.S.?
It is not in Sweden.
This was Canada.
Probably because he was not grounded. He's standing on a roof, probably on non-conducting shingles, and very likely was wearing gloves (those gutters can have sharp edges.) The other guy was standing on a steel ladder and the gutter was probably in his arms rather than his hands.
I think you missed the point about the safety distance. We're talking about moving large clumsy objects near power lines and keeping a safe distance so you dont accidentally touch the line, not how close it has to be to create an arc.
That's right, but I think the time you mean was 0:48
it's good for us to learn from out mistakes.
22 feet and he died.. my grandfather at 55 fell two off the roof of a 2 story house onto a concrete pad and got up from it
i think that is because the roof is to good isolated from the earth (there is a materie on it that they burn on the roof (dont know the english word))) but the other one climb on a ladder and he needs one hand to hold the ladder and one hand for the gutter ... and in theory, electricity choose the shortest route to earth with the least resistance ;-)
Should it not be in legislation that all high voltage cables near apartment blocks be fully visible and not hidden?
@fastestlapsDOTcom would lightning ever hit a house and if it did and i was in the bathtub would i get fried?
That was shocking
wouldnt the guy in the middle still feel the gutter gets really hot from resistance heating? either way, the guy who fell didnt die from the fall, he died probably instantly from heart failure.
Upgrading existing overhead infrastructure would cost millions if not billions to replace. I'm sure you would not want to pay for it. Instead workers need to be aware of hazards.
put the power lines underground. thats not happenong . focus should be on safety in this sort of situation. when a contractor first looks at a job he has a resposibility to himself and others to notice if there are powerlines located anywhere within the working area. If so he should inform the property owner that the power co. should be called in to wrap the lines with a shield. doesnt matter who calls as long as the call is made . Safety first. If they had called that man would still be alive.
I wonder if the worker or his family got any compensation at all from wcb? For sure wcb fined and collected cash from the company so they can continue to grow and expand their force and pay and benefits.
What would the worker do with compensation?
Not an extruder machine, instead a bending machine, uses rolls of metal to bend into shapes.
that is a polyurathane foam roof
@tomerescfc The electricity was looking for the quickest way to a 'perfect' ground. Going through a person, then a not very conductive building? Nah. go through the person, then the aluminum (holy shit people actually still use these?) ladder to the best ground.
Or he had some good rubber soled shoes and rubber gloves? Yes i think they guy on the ladder was carring it with his arms while still holding onto the ladder with his hands so even if he had proper rubber boots and gloves and his legs were not toughing the ladder nor the eve touching the ladder, he might have lived.
crazy good animation. it looks so real
@megagirlyo93 My guess is he was on tar and gravel roofing which didnt conduct electricity
Nobody understands looking at the surrounding area and the building doin alot of gutters is actually safer doin it from the roof as long as you have guys that know their limits and you can even go as far as tieing off to an anchor on the ridgecap. I do gutters for a living and i work with guys that witnesses something very similar but the guy was grabbed before fell off the ladder.
that sucks, poor guy died avoiding the "low voltage" lines and they could have used the "low voltage" lines as a support for the gutter and not had any trouble since the low voltage lines are insulated. (like an extension cord)
I'm not saying they SHOULD have, just that they could have.
Got distracted my a minor danger while the real danger was unnoticed.
where is the edge protection
You better make sure your contractors have insurance or you will be the one shocked
did they have to make a new gutter or could they use that one with a joint in ?
Asking the real questions...
Since they are extruded, they can make tmem to virtually any length they need. I'm guessing the joint would have cost extra time.
That would never happen in Europe. There they don't put high voltage power lines next to houses and stuff. In cities they are underground, in the village areas those are overhead lines, but far away from house roofs. God bless America.
And knowledge is half the battle!
Fiberglass ladder would have saved him, aluminum ladder is a straight path to ground
U ever heard of a fucking wood ?.
@@TheSRBgamer63 What's a "fucking wood?"
That, and they could've easily done the job by just mirroring the way they were standing: ladder on the left side of the building.
Easily avoidable. I don't understand why people don't make better and consistent use of ropes. This report also makes no mention of fall arrest harnesses. Even if you have nothing on the roof on which to tie yourself, go to the other side of the house and set one eight gallon water jug per worker. (Lash them to the roof rack of the truck for transport, while empty.) Throw a rope onto the roof and tie each man to a job. The inertia of the weight, and friction of the roof will more than half the energy of the impact if a worker falls. For my own work on a roof, I made a harness from a play swing and used bags of mulch to anchor me.
Adding to the danger, a worker climbed the ladder while carrying the gutter. What was so difficult about tying twine spanning the length of the gutter, with a loop knot at each end. Then another length of twine three feet from the ends. Each worker could pull up on each end partially screw the gutter before cutting the twine.
@cooljitz if lightning hit my house and i was taking a shower. would i get fried?
Current looks for the easiest path to ground. Classifying concrete as a conductor wouldn't exactly be correct.
A powerline, a ladder, and a aluminium gutter= death...... who knew
Because one person didn’t use their eyes another person got killed?! The guy holding the other end should be in jail.
well that was like 3 stories and he fell directley on his back
Would a fiberglass ladder prevented this type of accident???
Probably, since it seems like the ladder was the connection from the worker to ground. Even with a fiberglass ladder, situational awareness must still be maintained.
one that long is heavy and expensive. cuts into their profits
perhabs powerlines in the groud could prevented this?:) and powerlines in the ground dont get effected by weather :)
Ah well, just one more injured worker that WorkSafe didn't have to pay. That's all they're interested in.
I agree, but some good info here.
@Russellbeta ropes are not going to work on gutter that big they could have avoid this with purches of one more latter motels are hard to do over 45 ft. ropes do not spread out to carry gutter it will turn making bend /must be carried in three four foot sections
gutter man
Why worker on roof didnt fell nothing ?.
Probably the juice had something to do with his death more than the fall did.
Or maybe he hit his head just right on the fall.
no way power line are locate 15 feet away from any home.
electricity goes for the least amount of resistance....
this isn't high voltage, is middle voltage
Two ladders , two men raising the gutter under the ladder and mounting it to the fascia could have prevented this from happening.
I would have gotten all three guys up on the roof, each holding a rope tied to the gutter, one at the middle, and one at each end and raised it up like that. I would have raised the side by the low voltage wires first until I was comfortable that I had cleared it, then get the other two guys to level it out and then move it to where it needed to go, as I'm pretty sure that that gutter was not meant for that particular eave.
Oh the right way
Brian DeHart two guys one ladder LOL
love these vids. good lessons
It's the guys flair who was holding other end.
i'm guessing he died before he even hit the ground... R.I.P
Just goes to show how careless people can be
Why bother trying to educate those that wouldn't even seek out such information or even if they were told wouldn't follow. Safety is used more often now as a way to squeeze more money out of us by requiring people to attend courses (read money), that teach things people should already know. A 12kv power line danger zone is only 1.2cm as the breakdown voltage of air is about 1kv per mm. 10 feet recommendation would mean the power line would need to be carry in excess of 300kv!
I hang gutters and first mistake is you walk backwards slowly as the other climbs up the ladder then both walk towards the edge and you can put a rubber stopper or the end of gutter. we do seamless so I carry 40ft pieces by myself up 3story ladders not bragging but cmon he must be new or inexperienced
Electricity can be your best friend, or your worst enemy.
In sweden we have our power lines digged down into the ground, why the hell would you want the powerlines in the air? just stupid and messy
@Kirke182 maybe he had a Faraday suit?? lol, i doubt it
Why was the other guy not electrocuted?
ow 22 foot drop to concret no wonder he died of his injurys
Did your grandfather hit a power line too? I don't think so
I've hung gutters for a living and unfortunately most gutter hangers take chances.He's probably did this many times and this time he had a problem.Another problem is most installers are paid by the foot and doing it safely cost them money.
That is just freakin stupid on everybody's part ! The two other co-workers will yell in thier sleep when that nightmare recurrs over and over. PEACE!
Who the hell wants pieced together gutters? Give me a break.
You're stupid
I agree training is a good thing. I currently have no less than 8 certificats of courses that I must carry with me to every job site. BUT, I also think safety regulations are getting so extreme that we are taking a step back. We also have to fill out form upon form up paperwork to ensure we have covered all dangers of the site. Once thats done, what do you think we do? Hurry to make up lost time. It's a losing battle sometimes. Common sense always prevails.
There's also this invention called: String. You can use String, by securing it to the object to be lifted, and then extending it to the target height you are planning on fixing that object. Look it up! One to grow on. Well, 2 out of 3 can grow on that. The other can grow daisy's.
Should of been using fibreglass ladders
Quit whining about the imagery. The purpose is obviously to save lives, not for your personal eye candy.
They should not have been installing gutters anyway.
so Sad
How the fuck did the worker on the roof not feel anything???,that's not possible
I think he wasn't grounded because he was on the roof. The other worker was on a steel ladder, making him the best path to the ground.