That's the cockpit coming. There are 2 feet of deck outside of it before the toe rail. Temptress is a unique design and the glasses are very safe. Thanks for your concern. Things like that bother me too. On my diesel oil change video the fact that I didn't cap the used oil jug drove me crazy during editing.
You mentioned stainless, which got me thinking. Maybe a discussion of how stainless works, why it doesn't rust, and under what conditions it does? People get into trouble, sometimes, thinking that since they bought stainless they needn't worry about corrosion, and they really do. Ditto for aluminum. It doesn't rust, for very different reasons than stainless, but also very much can corrode in certain circumstances.
Great info. Saw a photo of an aluminum sailboat for the antarctic that had a sign on the companionway: "NO METAL COINS ON BOARD." I guess Cape Horn is the last place you want to try to find a leak.
Thanks for an interesting talk! I'm not (yet) a boat owner but this process has many applications, and it's always interesting to know a bit more about an actual process other than just that "it works"
That was a great video. The biggest issue I have seen is that people OVER zinc their vessel. It is a great idea to try and find the stray currents floating around your vessel and reduce it as much as possible. Marinas can be bad for electrolysis as the vessel a few berths away maybe full of stray current going into the water and affecting your vessel. All that white fuzz tht can appear awound on wooden vessels electroylsis just a battery eating your wood.
Bronze is NOT Copper/Zinc (that would be brass and would soon become a lace shell of its former self). Bronze may be Copper/Tin, Copper/Silicon/Aluminum, Copper/Nickel/Aluminum/Tin, Copper/Arsenic. (and many other alloy variants) The least noble of the metals in your particular Bronze will be dissolving. ... without a sacrificial anode, usually Zinc or Magnesium :) You can make a steel mold wtih a die grinder, re-melt, & re-cast ... the dross will remove all of the slag. Love your presentations!
Hi Clark, another very informative and timely video. We are heading to the Caribbean mid summer but will be in Lake Ontario for a few months. I’ve been researching online regarding which material to use. I see 3 options . 1 is to use both a zinc and magnesium anodes on the prop shaft. 2 is zinc only. 3 is aluminum as it somewhat effective in both salt and fresh. So far I’ve not been able to draw any firm conclusions. Your opinion would be most welcome. Cheers Kevin H
Don't mix anodes. The magnesium will just protect the zinc. Can't answer your question because you didn't tell me what you are protecting. But if the least noble metal is your bronze propeller, I answered it in the video. Zinc.
A few months, I don't hear people changing. From what I am aware having lived on Sacramento River, salmon temporary fishing up there made no changes coming up from the Bay. My understanding is your still protected enough and just going to kill your marine growth.
My old Perkins 4-108 didn't either. That one I took apart enough to know why. They actually electrically separated the dissimilar metals. No need and after many, many years of use no problems. I wonder if yanmar did something similar. But if it works, don't fix it.
Great explanation Clarke but.... Many boats have more than one "ocean" to whivh metal is exposed. If you have bilges that always contain some water and there is metal there (eg keel bolts!) you also need an anode immersed in that water and connected to that metal. The zinc outside the hull cannot protect metal inside because the water part of the circuit is not connected.
@@richardstott7777 my 2 main anodes are connected to lead keel and everything linked to that, wooden boat. Refering to fiberglass with bolt on keels? I would agree that structure should be protected.
I have only noticed 2 things with regards to brand. 1 had a copper bb in it so it would make a "better" connection to the shaft. 2 more expensive Zincs have screw retainers so you can loosen the screws without them falling out. It's easier to install them that way. I save old zinc screws anyway. Can't have too many stainless screws around.
Melting zink is dangerous without a proper respirator to protect you from the zink fumes. The same is true when welding on galvanized steel because the steel is zink plated. Zink fumes can kill you.
My propeller would be solid Bronze, then I'd have it cleaned....and dipped in Stainless Steel 1/8" thickness afterwards I'd apply a Zinc Galvanized coating onto the stainless....then I'd apply and baked on PTFE based-hard resin fiberglass film to the galvanized prop. After installation of the Bronze, stainless, galvanized- baked on ptfe fiberglass prop...I'd coat it with Vaseline. I'd call my advanced propeller the "lifetime low-maintenance propeller". The bronze-to- stainless juncture would be so clean air and water tight...no galvanic effect would ever encroach.
Actually I don't protect them. I suggest removing all wires to them. It's a long story involving stray current found in marina waters but in short they shouldn't need protection if they aren't connected to any dissimilar metals.
@@EmilyAndClark Clark, i didn't mean having zinc's on them but the zincs help protect any metal below the waterline. So you do not bond all metal below together like bonding and grounding for lightning? Just curious?
The deep conversation on co-bonding, lightning protection and stray currents. There is a prior episode on lightning protection. Big division of opinions. Bond together you can get a through hull corroded in months in a marina, unbonded many years.
Yes there is a difference of opinion there. And valid. Personally my thruhulls we're fine but I lost my mounting bolts in just 30 years! I'm OK with that. As for zinc protection, there is no protection if there is no wire.
Please comment on checking condition of zincs-tapping them to get the soft stuff off and cleaning the shaft before putting on a new zinc and putting them on tight. Bottom cleaners need to learn how to do it properly. (They don’t listen to me and I need someone to back me up.)
I had a 40ft steel narrowboat in the UK 30 years ago. I had 2 anodes welded on the bows as I was advised to when the boat was new. In the 5 years I had the boat it was dry docked twice to repaint the bottom, I could not see any reduction in the anodes or pitting of the steel or prop. I mentioned this fairly recently to someone who freaked that the anodes cant have been doing their job (I hadn't earthed to them). I wonder if there was no changes due to the boat always being in "fresh" water?
Two issues. First as you said "fresh water" it's just not as aggressive as salt Second. One tends to use "zinc"s that are not really zinc in fresh water. Magnesium?? I'd have to look it up. In short you want a greater electronegative difference.
Thank you I have albin vega 27. This has the keel shoe you spoke about. Also used to have a zink on the shaft. Shaft has been removed,yet a bronze part that's glassed in remains. Should I mount a zink close to these areas to protect the bronze? Thanks Have a good day
It has to be electrically connected to do anything. Not just close. If you only have only bronze below it does fairly well but within a decade or do it could become real unhappy. I'd drill and tap into the bronze and mount a zinc in the rudder shoe like I did.
Hmmmmm,....... Mine (1980) GRP is mostly bronze through hulls, and most of them are internally grounded together (star I think) (probably helps out for the SSB as well), the prop zinc fell of by the pressure of the high pressure cleaner when I hauled her out, so they're working. But the ball valves on the toilet outlet through hulls were of the cheaper brass, and had that wrong color (light red / salmon color) and the handle just broke of with very little force. But the bronze through hull it was mounted on looked perfectly o.k. ...... However, the toilet through hulls are the only ones on the boat that are not grounded (not part of the ground star network). ........ So then comes one of my question :.......... Does this grounding assure all through hulls (and prop shaft etc) are at the same electrical potential, thus preventing them from interacting as anode/catode, thereby protecting them against each other ? .......... And if that brass valve house was electrically connected to the bronze through hull, would it then not have coroded ? (maybe not with regard to the copper, but maybe with regard to the pooh ?). ....... I know I shouldn't use cheap brass but. ..... My boat is probably quite simmilar to yours by the way. ......... Thanks for the deep diving :-) ........ And one more observation from mine,..... where the hoses are connected to the through hulls, there typically is (after a while) a ring of something looking like salt (white and of a powdered nature) in the transition between the copper and the PVC? hose. .... I've cleaned it of and I DON'T see that light red / salmon color indicating that the zinc is gone and the metal thus damaged, so I've assumed it's salt from evaporation of the salt water inside somehow, but I've failed to get that confirmed by uncle google so far. ... There are the stainless steel clamps there of course but they're just in touch with the PVC? hose so electrically isolated they should be when everything is clean but. .....
I personally don't connect thruhulls. I use good bronze and expect them to last a long time but not forever without zinc. Brass with bronze are different metals, you are making a battery and the brass is loosing. Don't use brass! Use plastic if you need to save money. Glass filled nylon is wonderfully strong and won't corrode. Even pvc is better then brass!
Hi, thank you very much for your very informative videos. Just a quick question, how did you install/ attach anodes on your aluminum hull dinghy? And how many them did you use? I would be very thankful if you may spare some time and reply. Best Regards.
I just drilled a hole in the transom below the waterline and bolted it in place with a rubber washer on the inside. Just one the size I show in the video. Again a zinc for an outboard motor (just find the cheapest one). They are the right electronegativity to protect aluminum.
I hear much talking about this, never yet encountered such a thing. Sometimes I am surprised at how many large zincs may be on a wooden sailboat keel when 2 is generally plenty. More is just extra drag. The idea that to much will cause them to not work is nonsense.
The issue is not that too many zincs will make them not function. The issue is that too many zincs will result in greater potential than needed for protecting props/rudders/etc and that causes other problems such as a degradation in how well your antifouling paint will perform (it needs electrons of copper to leave the paint and repel growth and this is prevented if there are too many zincs), or it will cause gas buildup under your paint that breaks the paint bond (this is an issue for aluminum/steel hulls), or it can also cause deuteriation in wood hulls due to the creation of caustic soda.
@@judunlap2138 Aluminum hulls I understand and require electrical monitoring. In practice I have not encountered the issue in a wooden boat yard. The steel boats will do as they prefer more zincs than wooden of the same size. The wooden boats with mild steel and iron run more. Not really ever getting a definition of ratios it does seem more individual. I have seen testing in most cases not useful. The antifouling, this is really the first I have heard someone agree with this concept. I am not aware of my antifouling making a successful useful circuit between lead keel, through hulls or anything else. Authoritative sources I always appreciate.
I can't stop looking at the glasses on the ledge to the right... They're so going in the drink 😂
That's the cockpit coming. There are 2 feet of deck outside of it before the toe rail. Temptress is a unique design and the glasses are very safe.
Thanks for your concern. Things like that bother me too. On my diesel oil change video the fact that I didn't cap the used oil jug drove me crazy during editing.
Excellent tutorial on zincs. Clarke would make a great teacher.
You mentioned stainless, which got me thinking. Maybe a discussion of how stainless works, why it doesn't rust, and under what conditions it does? People get into trouble, sometimes, thinking that since they bought stainless they needn't worry about corrosion, and they really do.
Ditto for aluminum. It doesn't rust, for very different reasons than stainless, but also very much can corrode in certain circumstances.
Yes. I talk about it a bit in the anchor video.
Stainless sorta sucks in a lot of ways. Generally bronze is so much better.
You are such a wealth of knowledge and information. Thank you both for all you do and share for us.
Great info. Saw a photo of an aluminum sailboat for the antarctic that had a sign on the companionway: "NO METAL COINS ON BOARD." I guess Cape Horn is the last place you want to try to find a leak.
I knew a guy in Seattle with a jar on the dockbox for pennies.
But a broken mercury thermometer would be even worse.
Thanks for an interesting talk! I'm not (yet) a boat owner but this process has many applications, and it's always interesting to know a bit more about an actual process other than just that "it works"
You're very welcome.
I absolutely love deep dives into every topic you do. It is very appreciated. 🙌🏼🙌🏼
Nothing wrong with an informative ramble. Thanks 😊
Thank you for another excellent video Clark. Next video can be about how you search the anchorage for your glasses... without your glasses.
Get a lot of comments on that. They were safe there. Temptress has about 2 foot of deck outside the comings then a toe rail.
I did have the basics, but thanks for the in depth lesson. I do like to understand what’s going on
That was a great video. The biggest issue I have seen is that people OVER zinc their vessel. It is a great idea to try and find the stray currents floating around your vessel and reduce it as much as possible. Marinas can be bad for electrolysis as the vessel a few berths away maybe full of stray current going into the water and affecting your vessel. All that white fuzz tht can appear awound on wooden vessels electroylsis just a battery eating your wood.
Thanks Dan
Yup, and I'm probably the Gilligan lol. Great video
This was so interesting! I don't even have a boat, but I love how much I learn from this channel :D
Thanks
Bronze is NOT Copper/Zinc (that would be brass and would soon become a lace shell of its former self). Bronze may be Copper/Tin, Copper/Silicon/Aluminum, Copper/Nickel/Aluminum/Tin, Copper/Arsenic. (and many other alloy variants)
The least noble of the metals in your particular Bronze will be dissolving. ... without a sacrificial anode, usually Zinc or Magnesium :)
You can make a steel mold wtih a die grinder, re-melt, & re-cast ... the dross will remove all of the slag.
Love your presentations!
Thank you, Clark! That was very informative!
You're welcome Zac
Thanks. You answered lots of questions I had!
Great post Clark. Always happy to see you and hear what you have to say. You Are A Treasure.
Thank you Gef. So nice of you to say.
Thanks, learned a lot about a subject we should all get smart about.
Hi Clark,
another very informative and timely video. We are heading to the Caribbean mid summer but will be in Lake Ontario for a few months.
I’ve been researching online regarding which material to use.
I see 3 options .
1 is to use both a zinc and magnesium anodes on the prop shaft.
2 is zinc only.
3 is aluminum as it somewhat effective in both salt and fresh.
So far I’ve not been able to draw any firm conclusions. Your opinion would be most welcome.
Cheers Kevin H
Don't mix anodes. The magnesium will just protect the zinc.
Can't answer your question because you didn't tell me what you are protecting. But if the least noble metal is your bronze propeller, I answered it in the video. Zinc.
A few months, I don't hear people changing. From what I am aware having lived on Sacramento River, salmon temporary fishing up there made no changes coming up from the Bay. My understanding is your still protected enough and just going to kill your marine growth.
Simple explanation. For something so basic amazing how much talk and failure is related to it.
The most forgotten zincs appear to be the
Yep. Modern yanmars don't seem to have them anymore.
@@EmilyAndClark News, really! Have Beta, they still do. Tube-stack is marine brass, bronze end caps.
My old Perkins 4-108 didn't either. That one I took apart enough to know why. They actually electrically separated the dissimilar metals. No need and after many, many years of use no problems.
I wonder if yanmar did something similar.
But if it works, don't fix it.
Great explanation Clarke but....
Many boats have more than one "ocean" to whivh metal is exposed. If you have bilges that always contain some water and there is metal there (eg keel bolts!) you also need an anode immersed in that water and connected to that metal. The zinc outside the hull cannot protect metal inside because the water part of the circuit is not connected.
@@richardstott7777 my 2 main anodes are connected to lead keel and everything linked to that, wooden boat. Refering to fiberglass with bolt on keels? I would agree that structure should be protected.
I have only noticed 2 things with regards to brand. 1 had a copper bb in it so it would make a "better" connection to the shaft. 2 more expensive Zincs have screw retainers so you can loosen the screws without them falling out. It's easier to install them that way. I save old zinc screws anyway. Can't have too many stainless screws around.
Yep. I've never been convicted the bb did anything important.
Spot on.
Love your channel!!
I learn so much with each and every episode.
Thank you!
You're very welcome Kevin
A great explanation as always, Clark. Thanks!
You're welcome Steve
Great video. Easily understandable to newbies. Thanks.
You're welcome Mike
When electroless gets to stainless steel it gets a little holes in it that looks like little worms have been eaten it and it looks weird.
Sorry seeing this late. But all good info just remember never mix zinc and aluminum anodes then you are making a battery.
Thanks for sharing
Your welcome David
Melting zink is dangerous without a proper respirator to protect you from the zink fumes. The same is true when welding on galvanized steel because the steel is zink plated. Zink fumes can kill you.
You are right
My propeller would be solid Bronze, then I'd have it cleaned....and dipped in Stainless Steel 1/8" thickness afterwards I'd apply a Zinc Galvanized coating onto the stainless....then I'd apply and baked on PTFE based-hard resin fiberglass film to the galvanized prop. After installation of the Bronze, stainless, galvanized- baked on ptfe fiberglass prop...I'd coat it with Vaseline. I'd call my advanced propeller the "lifetime low-maintenance propeller". The bronze-to- stainless juncture would be so clean air and water tight...no galvanic effect would ever encroach.
Cute.
If course for anyone reading this. First chip from hitting something and it corrodes from the inside out.
@@EmilyAndClark Forgot to mention ...warranty is void if you strike the prop exposing any part of the bronze metal.
:)
Great video. You forgot to mention the bronze hull fittings that need protection with the zincs also. That could be a problem for sinking purposes.
Actually I don't protect them. I suggest removing all wires to them. It's a long story involving stray current found in marina waters but in short they shouldn't need protection if they aren't connected to any dissimilar metals.
@@EmilyAndClark Clark, i didn't mean having zinc's on them but the zincs help protect any metal below the waterline. So you do not bond all metal below together like bonding and grounding for lightning? Just curious?
The deep conversation on co-bonding, lightning protection and stray currents. There is a prior episode on lightning protection. Big division of opinions. Bond together you can get a through hull corroded in months in a marina, unbonded many years.
Yes there is a difference of opinion there. And valid.
Personally my thruhulls we're fine but I lost my mounting bolts in just 30 years! I'm OK with that.
As for zinc protection, there is no protection if there is no wire.
Please comment on checking condition of zincs-tapping them to get the soft stuff off and cleaning the shaft before putting on a new zinc and putting them on tight. Bottom cleaners need to learn how to do it properly. (They don’t listen to me and I need someone to back me up.)
Yep
I had a 40ft steel narrowboat in the UK 30 years ago. I had 2 anodes welded on the bows as I was advised to when the boat was new. In the 5 years I had the boat it was dry docked twice to repaint the bottom, I could not see any reduction in the anodes or pitting of the steel or prop. I mentioned this fairly recently to someone who freaked that the anodes cant have been doing their job (I hadn't earthed to them). I wonder if there was no changes due to the boat always being in "fresh" water?
Two issues. First as you said "fresh water" it's just not as aggressive as salt
Second. One tends to use "zinc"s that are not really zinc in fresh water. Magnesium?? I'd have to look it up. In short you want a greater electronegative difference.
Thank you I have albin vega 27. This has the keel shoe you spoke about. Also used to have a zink on the shaft. Shaft has been removed,yet a bronze part that's glassed in remains. Should I mount a zink close to these areas to protect the bronze? Thanks
Have a good day
It has to be electrically connected to do anything. Not just close.
If you only have only bronze below it does fairly well but within a decade or do it could become real unhappy. I'd drill and tap into the bronze and mount a zinc in the rudder shoe like I did.
Hmmmmm,....... Mine (1980) GRP is mostly bronze through hulls, and most of them are internally grounded together (star I think) (probably helps out for the SSB as well), the prop zinc fell of by the pressure of the high pressure cleaner when I hauled her out, so they're working. But the ball valves on the toilet outlet through hulls were of the cheaper brass, and had that wrong color (light red / salmon color) and the handle just broke of with very little force. But the bronze through hull it was mounted on looked perfectly o.k. ...... However, the toilet through hulls are the only ones on the boat that are not grounded (not part of the ground star network). ........ So then comes one of my question :.......... Does this grounding assure all through hulls (and prop shaft etc) are at the same electrical potential, thus preventing them from interacting as anode/catode, thereby protecting them against each other ? .......... And if that brass valve house was electrically connected to the bronze through hull, would it then not have coroded ? (maybe not with regard to the copper, but maybe with regard to the pooh ?). ....... I know I shouldn't use cheap brass but. ..... My boat is probably quite simmilar to yours by the way. ......... Thanks for the deep diving :-) ........ And one more observation from mine,..... where the hoses are connected to the through hulls, there typically is (after a while) a ring of something looking like salt (white and of a powdered nature) in the transition between the copper and the PVC? hose. .... I've cleaned it of and I DON'T see that light red / salmon color indicating that the zinc is gone and the metal thus damaged, so I've assumed it's salt from evaporation of the salt water inside somehow, but I've failed to get that confirmed by uncle google so far. ... There are the stainless steel clamps there of course but they're just in touch with the PVC? hose so electrically isolated they should be when everything is clean but. .....
I personally don't connect thruhulls. I use good bronze and expect them to last a long time but not forever without zinc.
Brass with bronze are different metals, you are making a battery and the brass is loosing. Don't use brass! Use plastic if you need to save money. Glass filled nylon is wonderfully strong and won't corrode. Even pvc is better then brass!
Hi, thank you very much for your very informative videos. Just a quick question, how did you install/ attach anodes on your aluminum hull dinghy? And how many them did you use? I would be very thankful if you may spare some time and reply. Best Regards.
I just drilled a hole in the transom below the waterline and bolted it in place with a rubber washer on the inside.
Just one the size I show in the video.
Again a zinc for an outboard motor (just find the cheapest one). They are the right electronegativity to protect aluminum.
@@EmilyAndClark Thank you! Will do the same on our dinghy. Stay safe :)
Should there be zincs on the anchor and anchor chain. This system on my boat is electrically isolated from the remainder of the boat
Your anchor and chain should be galvanized. That's zinc
👍!!!
. what is the mounting hardware (screws, bolts...) made of?
Stainless steel. But anything would do while installed in salt water.
Could this ever work on a vehicle frame where they use salt on roads?
Only if you either submerged the car in water or sprayed the zinc over all the metal (galvanized it)
What about engine anodes?
Basically the same thing but inside the heat exchanger of your engine. Some engines don't have them.
The easy answer of course is a titanium prop. Also titanium everything else. Shouldn't be too expensive...
No I get that. If course we'd need a few more Patreon supporters.
🧿👍Sağ ol.
My glasses would find the bottom in a second if I put them on the coaming
There is about two feet of deck and a toe rail outside our cockpit coming.
So of course, knowing that, the glasses stayed right there.
Algorithm Booster! ⛵
Thanks
Can I sink lower than joking about zinc? 😆
Clark - you did not tell the peoples that too much Zinc can be as bad as too little - google is your friend for info - another Vlog ??
In what way is too much zinc bad?
I hear much talking about this, never yet encountered such a thing. Sometimes I am surprised at how many large zincs may be on a wooden sailboat keel when 2 is generally plenty. More is just extra drag. The idea that to much will cause them to not work is nonsense.
The issue is not that too many zincs will make them not function. The issue is that too many zincs will result in greater potential than needed for protecting props/rudders/etc and that causes other problems such as a degradation in how well your antifouling paint will perform (it needs electrons of copper to leave the paint and repel growth and this is prevented if there are too many zincs), or it will cause gas buildup under your paint that breaks the paint bond (this is an issue for aluminum/steel hulls), or it can also cause deuteriation in wood hulls due to the creation of caustic soda.
@@judunlap2138 Aluminum hulls I understand and require electrical monitoring. In practice I have not encountered the issue in a wooden boat yard. The steel boats will do as they prefer more zincs than wooden of the same size. The wooden boats with mild steel and iron run more. Not really ever getting a definition of ratios it does seem more individual. I have seen testing in most cases not useful. The antifouling, this is really the first I have heard someone agree with this concept. I am not aware of my antifouling making a successful useful circuit between lead keel, through hulls or anything else. Authoritative sources I always appreciate.
You lost me the first 5 mins way too much over my head