Maturity leads to less thwarting of other's faith expression. I had to leave my community because the level of judgment, projection, and fear was simply too restrictive for where my spirit was leading...I needed a new wine skin!! So much love has been pouring out over the past year..there's no stopping the glory of our Lord in us, and through us. We are summoned to this evolutionary Maker as carriers of His Glory-- lucky us!!
Excellent! Beautiful! I went from growing up in a United Church of Canada (almost anything goes) to Pentecostal (almost anything can make you back-slidden and going to hell) and am walking in Jesus. Praise God for His constant faithfulness. "That which He has begun...."
To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”Luke 18:9-14 Thank you for your insight
Amen. This something God has been working on in my heart with me & my parents being into closely related but different nondenomination churches. & how I think about my brothers & sisters in the faith in other denominations. ❤
When Jesus said "I will eat & drink the passover with you new in the Kingdom "Matt 26:29, he used the word KAINOS which translated corectly means; 'unaccustomed, new in form, different in nature'. So Since "flesh and blood CANNOT unherit God's Kingdom" ( 1 Cor 15:50) We can only understand this to mean SPIRITUALLY! There is NO physical food & drink in heaven, why? because it is a SPIRIT realm where God, Jesus & the angels dwell in a far more glorious existance than any mere human situation!
Couldn’t agree more!!! It’s not that the “rules don’t matter” but they serve a greater function. Unfortunately, I disagree that Jesus, nor Paul for that matter, ever set aside a rule (in regards to a commandment of God) but did set aside man-made traditions that men were exalting as God given commandments. Sadly Halloween has nothing to do with Romans 14. The context is about fasting on certain days and eating meats sacrificed to idols. Not being okay to partake in celebrating a satanic holiday. Not everyone is “serving the same god”. Our Master is the one whom we obey (Romans 6:16). Romans 14:1 begins by contrasting the weak and the strong brother. The strong brother is to accept the weak, and not argue on and on about secondary issues. I would argue that sin is not a secondary issue. Paul’s use of weak here echoes 1 Corinthians 8:7-12. In both contexts he is dealing with brethren who are not inclined to eat meat out of fear that it has been offered to an idol. Paul explains in 1 Corinthians that idols are nothing, therefore one may eat meat, asking no questions about whether or not the meat had been sacrificed to an idol. In Romans 14, the strong brother eats all things (veggies and meat), while the weak brother eats only veggies (Rom. 14:2). The “all things” mentioned here should not be looked at in the sense of dogs, cats, poisonous frogs, etc. Rather it is understood as meat on top of a veggie diet. The strong brother realizes that an idol is nothing, so he eats asking no questions. This understanding filters down to verse 14 where Paul states that nothing is common of itself. Most translations read “nothing is unclean of itself,” but it should be translated as “common” (as is done in Acts 10-11 where Peter explains that he’s never eaten anything common or unclean. Peter, as recorded by Luke, uses two different Greek words for different categories of animals). Something common does not mean it is unclean. An example of an unclean animal would be a camel or pig. Something considered common would be a cow (clean animal) that had been sacrificed to an idol or touched by unclean animals, as in Peter’s vision. The cow is not unclean, but is considered common because of secondary reasons. What Paul is saying in Romans 14:14 is that he is persuaded by the Lord that there is no clean animal common of itself, but if a person esteems such a clean animal to be common, then to them it is common (defiled because it's been sacrificed to an idol). Some people attempt to combat this understanding by citing Romans 14:20, but it's really simple. It falls on the heels of what I've already explained. "All things" in this context is a reference to meat in addition to veggies. So Paul is speaking about all foods (both meat and veggies…not unclean animals) being pure or clean in spite of being offered to idols, but the man that eats thinking the idol is something defiles his conscience. To look “more and more like Jesus” is to walk just as he walked. He kept all of His Father’s commandments is spirit and truth and ate only clean animals as food. Scripture says the true stumbling blocks are those practicing lawlessness. There most certainly is a right and wrong…not just “different” understandings. In regards to “all foods being clean”, not everything people eat is “food”. God gives us the definition of food in Leviticus 11 & Deuteronomy 14. “The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all the stumbling blocks and those practicing lawlessness, and they will cast them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”
How would you address the tension between this issue and that of holding our brothers and sisters accountable for sinful expressions of their faith? Example: a friend of mine uses a “broad/strong” faith regarding the permissibility of alcohol to get drunk with no second thought. Clearly a violation of other instructions of scripture and how our lives are to be lived and represent Christ. But when the topic is brought up, he leans on this and other proof texts to vindicate himself.
(This is a copy/paste auto-response for my sabbatical.) I am on sabbatical until Labor Day. I’m avoiding as many messages as possible in order to find the desired space for reflection and renewal. If the matter can wait, contact me after Labor Day. If you’d like to learn more about this time, you can watch my overview of my time of sabbatical: th-cam.com/video/pcdjL3tmNiI/w-d-xo.html
Not sure I agree with the “narrow” translation of asthenw. Nearly every other NT use of that word is properly translated “sick,” as when Jesus heals the sick. Asthenw does not seem to be a neutral state but a less desirable one. Could you (or anyone else out there in the community) elaborate on how you’ve come to “narrow”? All that said, I do agree with the conclusion you reach based on vv.3-4.
(This is a copy/paste auto-response for my sabbatical.) I am on sabbatical until Labor Day. I’m avoiding as many messages as possible in order to find the desired space for reflection and renewal. If the matter can wait, contact me after Labor Day. If you’d like to learn more about this time, you can watch my overview of my time of sabbatical: th-cam.com/video/pcdjL3tmNiI/w-d-xo.html
I appreciate what you are saying and we should keep wrestling! I loved Marty's concussion -- My hubby is the conservative focused, narrow faith and it's deep and simple and beautiful. Traditional and profoundly powerful. I am the expansive, exploratory believer with a hunger for mystery and magic!! We balance each other well and people enjoy how differently we express our love for Jesus.
Jesus said to the Jewish leaders that the Kingdom would be taken from them and given to another kingdom bringing forth good fruit. The early church defined itself as that new kingdom. That church was the Orthodox Church. There was no other church. Nobody believed in an invisible church as that doctrine was invented by the Protestants. Even to this day the Orthodox Church defines itself as the kingdom of God. There is no such thing as an invisible church.
Such a great teaching 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Maturity leads to less thwarting of other's faith expression. I had to leave my community because the level of judgment, projection, and fear was simply too restrictive for where my spirit was leading...I needed a new wine skin!! So much love has been pouring out over the past year..there's no stopping the glory of our Lord in us, and through us. We are summoned to this evolutionary Maker as carriers of His Glory-- lucky us!!
Excellent! Beautiful! I went from growing up in a United Church of Canada (almost anything goes) to Pentecostal (almost anything can make you back-slidden and going to hell) and am walking in Jesus. Praise God for His constant faithfulness. "That which He has begun...."
Well articulated
Love when you make me think more deeply, Marty! Thanks.
To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”Luke 18:9-14 Thank you for your insight
Amen. This something God has been working on in my heart with me & my parents being into closely related but different nondenomination churches. & how I think about my brothers & sisters in the faith in other denominations. ❤
Thank you for this.
So freeing! I'm definitely EXPANSIVE...as you know 😅
This kind of reminds me of doublespeak
When Jesus said "I will eat & drink the passover with you new in the Kingdom "Matt 26:29, he used the word KAINOS which translated corectly means; 'unaccustomed, new in form, different in nature'. So Since "flesh and blood CANNOT unherit God's Kingdom" ( 1 Cor 15:50) We can only understand this to mean SPIRITUALLY! There is NO physical food & drink in heaven, why? because it is a SPIRIT realm where God, Jesus & the angels dwell in a far more glorious existance than any mere human situation!
Couldn’t agree more!!! It’s not that the “rules don’t matter” but they serve a greater function. Unfortunately, I disagree that Jesus, nor Paul for that matter, ever set aside a rule (in regards to a commandment of God) but did set aside man-made traditions that men were exalting as God given commandments. Sadly Halloween has nothing to do with Romans 14. The context is about fasting on certain days and eating meats sacrificed to idols. Not being okay to partake in celebrating a satanic holiday. Not everyone is “serving the same god”. Our Master is the one whom we obey (Romans 6:16).
Romans 14:1 begins by contrasting the weak and the strong brother. The strong brother is to accept the weak, and not argue on and on about secondary issues. I would argue that sin is not a secondary issue.
Paul’s use of weak here echoes 1 Corinthians 8:7-12. In both contexts he is dealing with brethren who are not inclined to eat meat out of fear that it has been offered to an idol. Paul explains in 1 Corinthians that idols are nothing, therefore one may eat meat, asking no questions about whether or not the meat had been sacrificed to an idol.
In Romans 14, the strong brother eats all things (veggies and meat), while the weak brother eats only veggies (Rom. 14:2). The “all things” mentioned here should not be looked at in the sense of dogs, cats, poisonous frogs, etc. Rather it is understood as meat on top of a veggie diet. The strong brother realizes that an idol is nothing, so he eats asking no questions.
This understanding filters down to verse 14 where Paul states that nothing is common of itself. Most translations read “nothing is unclean of itself,” but it should be translated as “common” (as is done in Acts 10-11 where Peter explains that he’s never eaten anything common or unclean. Peter, as recorded by Luke, uses two different Greek words for different categories of animals). Something common does not mean it is unclean. An example of an unclean animal would be a camel or pig. Something considered common would be a cow (clean animal) that had been sacrificed to an idol or touched by unclean animals, as in Peter’s vision. The cow is not unclean, but is considered common because of secondary reasons.
What Paul is saying in Romans 14:14 is that he is persuaded by the Lord that there is no clean animal common of itself, but if a person esteems such a clean animal to be common, then to them it is common (defiled because it's been sacrificed to an idol). Some people attempt to combat this understanding by citing Romans 14:20, but it's really simple. It falls on the heels of what I've already explained. "All things" in this context is a reference to meat in addition to veggies. So Paul is speaking about all foods (both meat and veggies…not unclean animals) being pure or clean in spite of being offered to idols, but the man that eats thinking the idol is something
defiles his conscience.
To look “more and more like Jesus” is to walk just as he walked. He kept all of His Father’s commandments is spirit and truth and ate only clean animals as food.
Scripture says the true stumbling blocks are those practicing lawlessness. There most certainly is a right and wrong…not just “different” understandings. In regards to “all foods being clean”, not everything people eat is “food”. God gives us the definition of food in Leviticus 11 & Deuteronomy 14.
“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all the stumbling blocks and those practicing lawlessness, and they will cast them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”
How would you address the tension between this issue and that of holding our brothers and sisters accountable for sinful expressions of their faith?
Example: a friend of mine uses a “broad/strong” faith regarding the permissibility of alcohol to get drunk with no second thought. Clearly a violation of other instructions of scripture and how our lives are to be lived and represent Christ. But when the topic is brought up, he leans on this and other proof texts to vindicate himself.
(This is a copy/paste auto-response for my sabbatical.)
I am on sabbatical until Labor Day. I’m avoiding as many messages as possible in order to find the desired space for reflection and renewal. If the matter can wait, contact me after Labor Day. If you’d like to learn more about this time, you can watch my overview of my time of sabbatical: th-cam.com/video/pcdjL3tmNiI/w-d-xo.html
Not sure I agree with the “narrow” translation of asthenw. Nearly every other NT use of that word is properly translated “sick,” as when Jesus heals the sick. Asthenw does not seem to be a neutral state but a less desirable one. Could you (or anyone else out there in the community) elaborate on how you’ve come to “narrow”? All that said, I do agree with the conclusion you reach based on vv.3-4.
(This is a copy/paste auto-response for my sabbatical.)
I am on sabbatical until Labor Day. I’m avoiding as many messages as possible in order to find the desired space for reflection and renewal. If the matter can wait, contact me after Labor Day. If you’d like to learn more about this time, you can watch my overview of my time of sabbatical: th-cam.com/video/pcdjL3tmNiI/w-d-xo.html
I appreciate what you are saying and we should keep wrestling! I loved Marty's concussion -- My hubby is the conservative focused, narrow faith and it's deep and simple and beautiful. Traditional and profoundly powerful. I am the expansive, exploratory believer with a hunger for mystery and magic!! We balance each other well and people enjoy how differently we express our love for Jesus.
Jesus said to the Jewish leaders that the Kingdom would be taken from them and given to another kingdom bringing forth good fruit. The early church defined itself as that new kingdom. That church was the Orthodox Church. There was no other church. Nobody believed in an invisible church as that doctrine was invented by the Protestants. Even to this day the Orthodox Church defines itself as the kingdom of God. There is no such thing as an invisible church.
Romans 2:14 large pic small pic