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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
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The right call for the defender is to pretend to trip over the extra ball, which would force the ref to stop the play for interference
5d underwater backgammon right there
That would actually be called diving, the Flamengo-player would have a shot at goal and the defender would still get a yellow for unsportsmanlike behaviour.
I would think so too. Although it might risk injury, he shouldn't need to do that if it is in his way to possibly cause that it perhaps should get called.
What actually happened:
On an attack made by Flamengo moments earlier, the attacker kicked the ball onto the Flamengo fans' area, where someone grabbed the ball. The fan took a photo & subsequently threw the ball back onto the field, originating the entire event.
It goes deeper when you realise that it was Gabigol who kicked from near penalty spot to the fans... so it's basically an one-two between Gabi and the fan (who was a Flamengo fan btw)
It's common in Brazil for the timer to be split in two halves of 45 minutes
Also Uruguay, and I think Argentina as well.
J league too
I believe it's common in Latin America in general. Here in Costa Rica I've seen some channels use one method or the other
Yup, and when we see a 90 minutes timer we assume it's a European game
The fact that the ref knew the rule, even though something like this rarely happens, and immediately pointed for the penalty, makes me respect him. Also, giving the yellow card was the right call as well because this is declared in the rules as unsporting behavior.
Pen + yellow was my first instinct, good that the rules cover it. Could argue for dead ball if defender turned around and was confused which ball is right, maybe even signalled the ref. But that's not what he did, he clearly knew what he was doing and stopped the opposition in the penalty area in an illegal way. Props for hitting the target though.
It's never a pen. Indirect free kick or ground ball and yellow card for the defender
I think it should be ground ball
I was wrong
Exactly. It's clear and intentional foul play by the defender. He doesn't HAVE to play it at the match ball, that's entirely his decision. It's denying a clear goalscoring opportunity through obstruction.
If it wasn't this, he would deffo do a slide tackle, taking the ball away.
BUT HE CAN'T BC THE OTHER BALL IS IN HIS WAY. HE EVEN SLOWS DOWN TO NOT STEP ON IT.
@@cass2239
@@dislexycoh I only saw your second comment way later lol
no way it should be a ground ball, that just gives a massive advantage to the guy that just cheated.
He couldn’t have played that second ball more intentionally if he wanted to and he used it to stop a promising attack from his opponents. Obligatory yellow and a foul. Dunno, if indirect or pen but the only reason for a indirect free kick inside the penalty area that I know is when the gk grabs a back pass.
The rule isn't to stop the game any time a second ball goes on the field. The rule is to stop the game only if the second ball interferes with play
Clearly it's interfering with the play way before the defender kicks the ball though right?
Its definitely interfering with the play. The ball is in the box where the attacking player is going.
Not even that. If he plays the ball with the INTENTION to interfere with the play, it's a pen. Even if he misses and sends the ball 10 feet too high
If i recall correctly the ref also can't whistle if it's a promising/developing chance, a penalty seems like the right call here.
The ball wasn't really interfering with the play here. He didn't get the video where the entire play happens, but it was all really fast, it happened in the space of like 10 seconds. When the ball was thrown into the field, Flamengo had possession in attack, just ahead of midfield. That means every player on the pitch and the referee had their backs turned to the ball that was thrown. As it was happening, the ball was passed into Arrascaeta in the sideline and, as he received, he quickly found Everton, and that's where he received the ball and what you saw in the video unfolded. It happened in like 10 seconds, it was really fast, and it wasn't disrupting play until Barreto used it to do what he did. In a perfect world, the ball wouldn't be thrown into the pitch, or some other Criciúma player would have noticed and kicked it away. But at the heat of the moment, in the 86th minute, no referee would ever think of stopping play like that.
The ball was thrown by the Flamengo fans, so they kinda won a penalty for their team, which is crazy
Also fun fact Bolasie plays for Criciúma
O problema é que o jogador do Criciúma foi BURRO de chutar a bola. Se tivessem parado e falado com o juiz, aí poderíamos falar de roubalheira.
Dói-me falar isso, considerando que torço pro Flu, mas...
Zealand does a warning for the pronunciation of Criciuma, even me as portuguese dont know how to pronunciate it in brazilian portuguese, but only after it said Flamenco ( a spanish dance and music ) instead of Flamengo one of the biggests club in Brazil
Yes 😂😂😂
Anyway, no strokes here, only laughter
Btw Criciúma is pronounced like Cri-ci-úma or Cre-see-Uh-ma for Eng speakers for those interested
This reminds me of the rule in hockey that throwing your stick at the puck is a penalty shot regardless of where the infraction occurs…
I think the 2x 45min clock is quite common in South America
Stopping the play when a team is attacking is not the right call, that would just punish the attacking team when they did nothing wrong. The ref would only have to stop the play if the second ball was interfering, in this specific case, all the players knew what the right ball was and the second ball wasn't intefering, the only inteference was the defending player stopping the attack on purpose. That's 100% a penalty, right call by the ref.
this absolutely feels like the right call to me. the defender 100% knew what he was doing and if you don't give this as a pen you encourage ball boys to throw an extra ball on the pitch whenever the opposing team attacks so that you can pinball it away
Barreto let the intrusive thought win
this is just a good ref decision by book, should be no argument on that. both decisions about keep the play going when another ball appear and the penalty are given by book, the discipline of refereeing covers those scenarios i think
thats for sure a penalty, and i believe thats the initial thought for most football fans, no idea why you dont feel the same way lol. thats an illegal move to stop a clear chance of opponent scoring. the game should not be immediately stopped when theres another ball appear on the pitch if one of the team is having a clear chance, the ref did well to let the play went on, which we have seen few time in premier leagues as well in recent years. the right thing to do for players and ref in this situation is to ignore that ball until that attack concluded, then the play should be stopped and the extra ball to be removed
That wasn't my first thought just because the ball was in the middle of the box where the attack was occurring. If it was like off to the side then yeah easily ignored but kinda hard when its in the middle of everything. And I saw somewhere else that the ball was thrown in by Flamengo fans which is not really fair to Criciuma. Defender shouldn't have deliberately kicked it at the game ball but what if he stepped on it while defending and they gave up a goal because of it? Now you're punishing the defense because of something that wasn't up to them
at around 1:57 its pronounced cree see oo muh (might be wrong on the muh)
Nah you pretty much nailed
Thats actually how you pronounce it
I'm Brazilian. I'd say the "muh" is closer to "mah", but you're spot on! The stressed syllable is the "oo" (the letter U in Criciúma).
Now I wanna see a new game mode.. a different coloured ball that can be used for any purpose except to score a goal. No, make that two.. one for each team, plus the match ball.
Knock a pass/shot off course, mess up a mazy dribble, smash it at a freekick taker, at the wall, etc.
Petition to make "MultiBall" a variant of Football
Penalty
(Saying this before I saw what the ref did)
Don't know what the official rules are. But yeah penalty was my first thought. As it is a foul in the penalty box. Not unfair at all as otherwise fans etc can influence play. Player is not being penalized for being smart, he is penalized for not knowing the rules. As we don't have the full clip we don't know how long that ball was there and if there was even an opportunity to stop play. If it was thrown in just before the clip starts as a ref I wouldn't stop play as they are in the middle of a promising attack. Then it is on the player for abusing the second ball.
Yeah, the full clip was shown during the match, the ball was thrown from the stands right as Everton starts his run, it was on the field for maybe 5 seconds before Barreto kicked it, the ref didn't even have time to notice it since he was focused on the play
@@kats1646 Yeah so completely correct ref decision.
Its a good rule. Last season in the game between Bastia and Saint-Étienne, the Bastia fans threw 5 times a ball in the box to try to force a whistle to stop an attack from Saint-Étienne
we've always counted like that in brazil, it was really weird when I started watching international football and saw the clock as a continuous thing.
You can know which half it is because there is a little "1" or "2" in front of the clock.
Its kinda like the NFL or the NHL, you dont play a quarter and then they continue afterwards, you dont start with an hour-long clock right? You count each period as their own. I don't particularly find it better, I don't find it worse either, but it does make sense.
Actually this is happend in Laliga as well, in that famous
Vinicious Jr vs Valancia match.
Baseball is boring but Jomboy breakdowns are fun. The sport is perfect if you only watch one highlight every few days
Jomboy is fantastic 😅
It's an amazing radio sport. It helps that my favorite team has one of the best announcers. Wouldn't say it's the best thing to watch on tv though
Agreed about the radio thing. Baseball almost never has more than one thing happening at once, and when it does, that's EXCITING!
I originally thought it would be a penalty because it was an infraction in the box. But Z's talk about how we wouldn't get it made me think this could be an indirect free kick (which I honestly don't know the rules governing them, tbh).
But this also made me think of something, maybe because of the baseball remark: There is actually a Ground Rule Triple in the rules of baseball that is similar to this. If a player intentionally impacts the flight of a ball with his cap, mask, or any detached part of his clothing (including throwing his glove at it), the batter is awarded THREE bases. And if it's deemed to have possibly been going over the wall, the batter is awarded a home run. (Rule 7.05)
It's Cree-see-uh-mah
I accidentally clicked on this video help I want to leave
You’re trapped
ONE OF US
ONE OF US
"There are no accidents" -Master Oogway
Dunk your device in a bucket of holy water ✝️💦🪣
Penalty + red card. That wasn't a ball, that was a land mine. You touch it, you're gone.
The attacker is coming from the opposite side of the dead ball, the defender goes out of his way to kick the ball that otherwise would not interfere, hence the refs not blowing the play dead beforehand.
My initial reaction was "should be a pen and yellow for defender" and I feel validated. Obviously an illegal stop of a goal scoring opportunity. If the defender cleared the in-play ball and the attacker just kicked the second ball into the goal, the goal shouldn't stand either, and he should receive a yellow. For me it makes perfect sense. Just because the referee makes a mistake to not stop the play, it doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want. Two wrongs doesn't make a right.
Penalty + yellow makes sense to me. A drop ball really only makes sense to me if this happened in the middle of the pitch and there would likely be a yellow brandished too for unsportsmanlike conduct.
Just a tip, since I saw you pronounce like this a few times. The G in Flamengo is pronounced like you'd say goo, ou great, or whatever. FlamenCo is a type of dance xD. For my english speaking boys, it would be easier if you say like Flamengow
The reason why Flamengo is difficult for us is because we're trying not to call your team by the very clearly incorrect Flamingo, which is a type of bird. I didnt know about the -ow part tho
So its Fla meng ow and not Fla meng go?
@@TheDieseI It would be closer to Fla Men Gow
@@TheDieseI It's definitely Fla-meng-go, I don't think he understands what "ow" sounds like in english. It's really simple, there's nothing weird going on. Basically, just pronounce it like you would pronounce Flamingo (the bird), but with the "en" sound like in "EN-ter" - or Flamenco (the dance), but with a "g" sounding like, well, a "g" (instead of "c").
It is a pen and a yellow every day. The only reason it avoids a grey area is because there is no world where the defender can reasonably claim he thought it was the real ball so therefore it's an illegal use of the object. Regardless it's a shocking display from the ref not noticing the ball, I've seen refs going to remove a ball from the other side of the pitch when my team is down in the 90th minute
Oh sweet american child. This was not the worst thing to happen in a game in brazil last weekend. The 1st prize is a série b game that a player took 2 yellow cards and VAR took 16 min of gameplay to call the referee and alert him that he ahould give a red card to the player
Saw that live, one of the funniest things I've ever seen on a football game
This is a deliberate foul in the penalty box so ofc it 's a pen , he very clearly aimed to hit it to take away the chance from the other player yellow card and the easiest pen ever given
Kind of an L take, IMO. What should defenders keep pocket sand to throw into the attackers eyes?
There's no way they're playing on through something like that even in the 60s...
You cant just stop the ball in an obviously illegal way just because theres another ball on the field
There are no rules in football, but law. The laws of football. A big difference.
There's a video from Flamengos stand, the guy who sent the ball into the field is a flamengo fan lol
Indirect free kick, red card for the defender (DOGSO/serious unsporting conduct), possible yellow card for the manager due to the conduct of the fans
I understand this isn't the right call, but probably what I would have called on the fly
LAWS OF THE FOOTBALL GAME ⚽
LAW 5 - THE REFEREE
Powers & Duties / Outside Interference
a) stop play (and restart with a dropped ball) only if it interferes with play - unless the ball is going into the goal and the interference does not prevent a defending player playing the ball; the goal is awarded if the ball enters the goal (even if contact was made with the ball) unless the interference was by the attacking team
b) allow play to continue if it does not interfere with play and have it removed at the earliest possible opportunity
The game would’ve been stopped anyway, as the 2nd ball became active in the play when the player with the actual ball ran right past it. It also has minor hinders to the direction that the defenders and attackers can move, preventing them tackling or running a certain way (which can slow them down). They should give an indirect free kick and possibly a yellow, or possibly just a drop ball from the edge of the box to the attacking team but absolutely should NEVER be a pen, unless it’s basically stopping an open goal
I am a USSF grassroots referee and here is what I think should be the call. According to IFAB rules if a second ball interferes with the play of the game you must stop the game and do a drop ball to the team that last touched it. However stated in Rule 8.2, in penalty boxes only the ball is always dropped for the defending team goalkeeper EVEN IF it denied a possible goalscoring opportunity. Also, since it was a denial of a possible goal scoring opportunity I would give a yellow card to the player who kicked the ball. So in summary yellow card to the player who kicked the ball and drop ball for the defending team goalkeeper. Nobody likes to make these calls and nobody would had to if either someone got the ball or the ref called it earlier.
ungentlemanly conduct, yellow card. free kick rather than penalty. first thoughts.
Zealand, a question:
What should happen if a player receive two yellow cards but does not receive a red card? This also happened on the brazilian league Sunday and the player remained on the field.
Barretto could have argued he thought that was the ball in play and kicked it away from goal. After kicking it away, it made contact with the other ball
My gut reaction was this should be a Man of the Match awarded...
I watched this match live, and i was genuinely so confused on what happened till I saw the replay. There was also 12 minutes of injury time cause of var use etc
ye same finally a game I watch actually has something weird happen in it
You can't just let a player get away with something that is against the rules just because the ref missed something that lead up to the rule breaking. That's why he is getting punished for it
I saw it live on TV, the second ball should be treated as a foreign object on the field, if one is on the field the game should've been stopped because it can be hindrance to the players, both for the defenders of Criciúma and the attackers of Flamengo, but the referee saw the ball INSIDE the box and chose not to hold the game, and instead let it continue. A foreing object thrown at the ball by a defending player is foul, a foul in the box is a penalty, I can't argue against that, but there was another ball, in the box, next to where the play was, so it should've been stopped, because it has the potential to spoil both sides, the attacking and the defending, the criciuma player decided to make the worst decision he could, which is dumb, but the play could've een affected in several different ways, the referee messed up.
"They're not that poor yet "
Dsmn...
I was watching It live, and was waiting for Z to cover this.
Btw our league always did the two 45 min halfs
If I’m understanding this right I think the referee made the right call here. Unless the referee whistles play dead the players have to assume play is live with an exception for VAR decisions noting should be called back.
The general definition of a foul is an unfair act by a player that interferes with open play.
Using an object to knock the ball way from the player would obviously be a foul. Imagine if one player kicked his shoe or another players at the ball that be a foul.
So because the ref hadn’t whistled the play dead it was live and Barettos jumping out of the way stopped any foul from taking place. If he dove than the red probably would’ve called it dead, but correspondingly this should be a pen.
I'm gonna be the "wrong guy" and say that no, no booking - it's on the officials to stop play when there is more than one ball on the field. The instant that was spotted on the pitch, the whistle should have been blown and play brought back. We've seen players throwing additional balls on the field to slow down throw-ins. We've seen numerous weird instances with a second ball coming onto the field from players warming up or ball boys dropping it and it's on the officials to halt the game until it is removed. Check the rules on 'more than one ball in play' - which occurs before the player plays the ball.
The play should have been stopped before the player made contact with the 2nd ball and committed his offense - the ref is just covering his own mistake.
Edit.. yeh I should just wait until the end but brain doesn't hold on to things for that long lol
Penalty for deliberate obstruction, the defender activley kicks the 2nd ball into the regulation ball in-play. Simple as.
Given that the foreign object (2nd ball) is in the area of play it then the referee should have stopped play before the second infringement from the defender in "using an object" to interfere with play.
When I saw this clip pop up yesterday I knew there would be a video.
I mean I agree that kicking the ball to obstruct the opponent is not a nice move but this situation feels like it should have just been immediately blown off.
But tbf I don't think it was necessary to kick the ball to prevent a goal.
Respect to the ref for knowing the rules this well.
Free kick outside the box for the attacking team, since the defender used that ball to his advantage in my opinion. Penalty is also okay tho.
The relevant thing is that Barreto actively kicked it.
Shoutout to my favorite player of all time Yannick Bolasie, he’s playing for Criciúma these days
Football was meant to be a gentleman's game.
Using an interference to get an advantage is not sportsmanship, so I don't think it should be rewarded. On the contrary.
Pen and yellow for the defender. You can't use that ball to interfere. Also, you cannot just stop the game everytime something is thrown.
Remember the beachball?
An alternate to a pen as it wasnt a foul or handball would be a freekick inside the box like how with the backpass rule
Same thing happened a decade ago against Beşiktaş in the süper lig I think by Kasımpaşa's Ryan Donk. The only difference was he threw the ball with his hand if I remember correctly. The call should be a penalty and a card but I'm not sure about the colour though I'm leaning towards red.
Found a link: th-cam.com/video/ylHBJ0JliSM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=5fE73D_D31C6MKuv the ref, like all refs against Beşiktaş, just gave a yellow and the ball went to Kasımpaşa. Later in the game there was a fight due to this tension.
Two things: Criciúma sucks to pronounce for someone who doesn’t speak portuguese because of the “r” and the “u” sounds. Also yes, in Brasil they count 45 minutes in each half, it’s not just that broadcaster.
You thik it's still boring even without the pitch clock?
Balls don't just spawn on the field, somebody got it there. And that is the context missing from the video. If you could just halt the game by throwing another ball on, imagine the possibilities.
Also as a player I would imagine you are aware of which ball is the one in play (hint: not the one lying dead in the pen box), so don't claim to be "confused" about anything.
But it's also not a definitive pen, because away fans exist (well, actually maybe not in Brasil, I'm not sure on that) and you could exploit this the other way as well.
The right call would have been to not resume play again with a second ball on the pitch. The ref should have had it removed before resuming play. And if the ref didn't see it one of the assistant refs should have seen it and told him.
RAW its a foul, and since its inside the box, its a penalty
RAI, the defender has to react to the ball in some way, and imho its enough of a reason for the play to be call dead when the ref or lineman sees the ball where is
also, when it comes to counting time in Football, in Brasil we do it in 2 halfs of 45' instead of the usual going to 90', we even have our version of the say "botton of the 9th", its "45' of the second half" :V
The thing I got wrong was I though it was a red card not yellow. Unfortunately if a ref misses something that isn't an excuse for a player to do what they want.
i think Zealand is starting to like the dark arts a bit too much
As much as the idea of not penalizing the defender for his creativity is fun for the chaos it would bring to matches it is not a good idea. If a penalty wasn't given then it would incentivize fans to do this more often in critical situations which would ruin a lot of games.
Easy yellow card + penalty kick because there is no direct goal threat (direct goal threat would turn the call into red card + penalty kick). This is no different from the player doing either one of:
1- diving hand first towards the ball and deflecting it with his hands (kind of like Luis Suarez vs Ghana)
2- throwing his shoe/kit towards the ball, deflecting it
In both cases, the player in question receives a yellow card and the other team gets awarded a penalty kick. Both the letter and the spirit of the rule are the same as this very case.
ok,
my initial thought was a throw-in and a yellow.
obviously i was wrong about the throw-in (had a momentary blackout and forgot about the drop-ball for some reason 0_0)
but the yellow is, in my opinion is correct.
this is shithousery,the cholo Simeone kind.
because the defender KNEW that there was the "playing ball",the one passed inside the box,
and he KNEW that the other ball was not supposed to to be there,
and yet, despite that, he chose the use the "wrong ball" to defend his goal.
yes, i know that the referee messed up, maybe the linesman messed up
but the fact that the rules were unintentionally broken by the referees DOES NOT mean that he can do as he likes.
it's like "my boss steals from the workplace, so, so can i."
the fact that he COULD have dived in to stop the play (08:27), or that he could do that or something else to spot the shot is irrelevant,
he made a choice. The unsporting one. the fact that it is very smart, creative, and unique choice does not make it any less unsporting.
Penalty. Interference is the official law, but it entails external influences influencing the play in a negative manner. It should be a penalty
Guys help plz. I know this is unrelated to the video but does anybody know where I can watch UCL qualifying games in the US? 🙏
As a Criciúma fan I know that was the right call, but was not us (Criciúma fans) that throw the ball. The hole play wasnt fair.
100% behind the ref. Yes, the ball should of been removed as play was stopped, but that guy KNOWS which ball is which when he kicks it, AT THE GUY ON THE BALL PREVENTING A PLAY. I would have sent him off. What a mug, glad they lost.
Nah we expect you to speak about baseball and basketball
I didn’t know it was a rule that you can award a free kick for that but it makes sense, otherwise people would just throw their shoes at the ball or whatever as others have said. The ref should have just stopped play when the second ball was there (then again, what if the second ball had only just been thrown on the field and the ref thought there is clearly one correct ball with a promising attack happening so wanted to let them have it, otherwise you could just throw an extra ball on whenever the opponents attack) but I am not having any excuses for the defender, he knew what he was doing, he WAS trying to stop play unfairly so if he falls foul of this rule that is on him. If he was trying to put it out of play he would have thrown it off towards the goal line not straight into the live ball ffs
You lost me at baseball
Nah baseball’s the goat
Z, I have to disagree. The guy plays the sport professionally, he should know that he wasn't allowed to do that. Also, as I said, it's a professional sport, it's not a kickabout with mates. The defender was 100% in the wrong and the referee applied the rule correctly - which I agree is a bit of an obscure one since we don't see it happen often.
He denied a goal scoring opportunity, penalty
Before seeing the result, thats an easy pen. Defender sees the extra ball, knows its an extra ball, kicks it in the path of the attacker, in the box. Pen
Normally agree with you, but bad argument, Z. Take this in our glorious US sports context. Theres a broken stick on the ice. Should a defender be rewarded for kicking it towards a guy on a breakaway even if the broken stick is in the way? no lol
Ref should have stopped play when the second ball entered and it would be a dead ball giving possesion back to the team who had the ball when play was stopped.
Yeah I've know that the Brazilians use the 45+45 on the clock and it still bothers me
... Denying a goalscoring opportunity in the penalty box... Yeah, I'd call that a pen, even if you're tempted to give the defending team kudos points for creativity. Fair play for the attacking team to go for the cross though (Would it count as 2 goals if both balls went in at once, though?)
Probably a stretch, but I assume the refs didn't stop play in the moment because they didn't think any player would do this, because of course a free kick would be given, or in this case, a penalty.
It's the refs prerogative to stop play, both on field and assistant ref, when the second ball came on the field. I don't blame the player tbh
Fun fact: The ball was thrown in by a Flamengo Fan
Disagree - intentionally played the ball (even if it wasn't meant to be there), player was about to shoot or trick the next defender, correct call penalty and yellow card.
The defender should have continued and if the ball got in his way when defending like he fell over it or accidently kicked it then the referee may have stopped the play for a drop ball.
I'm Brazilian and I was wondering if Zealand would make a video about this lol
New sport! there are 10 balls on the field, but only 1 white one; and only the white one can score a goal!!!!
My understanding is that the match only stops if the second ball is interfering with play. That's subjective, so only the referee and his assistants can make that decision...
I think the ball WAS interfering but again the only opinion that matters is the refs...
My guess was penalty, so I got it right.
Game should have been stopped first, but it wasn't. It was DOGSO, no different from a foul in the same position.
Player should have ignored the 2nd ball, or kicked it off the pitch.
3:10 my best guess for what's the right call would be a simple Ref Ball with Flamengo possession
Ignorance does not excuse you from punishment. The defender clearly used this to prevent an attempted shot,insider the Box, like you said yourself
Had the defender passed the ball onto the Flamengo-player it would've been a red card also.
Clear penalty as the defender chose to use the foreign object to obstruct an opponent. As the ref, probably, have not seen the second ball until the moment the defender kicks it it is not admissable in the referee's mind. It is also a borderline red card actually. The defender is not in a position, disregardless of the second ball, to make a successful challenge as well. So pen, yellow card and all is well. This is more a mistake from either an assistant or the 4th referee than the main referee, concerning the second ball also.